Men charged for teen train rape

CHOP THEIR BITS OFF

THEN GIVE THEM TO THE GIRLS MOTHERS

Jimmyjames, where do you get that the majority of rapes are not commited by Svensson-Svensson? I am sure if you look deeper you will notice the contrary. I am even willing to bet that 98% of those rapes are commited by Swedes themselves. Having you realized that foreigners do speak and do open their mouths to speak with women, while the average Swede need to do so while under the influence. I am sure if you conduct a survey in Sweden you will atonished to find out that most of them met their partner while drunk. You said once they were respected and feared,.well my friend, it is the same today, except that those to fear them are helpless 14 year old girls

I agree with "bengal" on this... chop their bits of if they are found to be guilty..

on another note, I'm happy they were not filesharing... or they would REALLY be in trouble!

Whether or not rapes are committed by Swedes or immigrants the fact of the matter is that rapist should never see the light of day. I agree with jimmyjames statement about how two young girls could be put in a train car with other men. I think that is ridiculous and they need to set policy to prevent young girls from sharing a train car with men. But maybe it is this whole idea that Swedes have in regards to crime. I think Swedes are disillusioned (not everyone, of course) and believe that Sweden is far more safe than it really is. I am not saying to live your life in fear, but we need to do things to prevent rapes and we need to completely revamp the criminal justice system here, starting with longer prison sentences for sex offenders and any type of premeditated felonies.

Pedo rape? .... I hope they get what they deserve.

I bet the result will be less than what the pirate bay was convicted of.

The swedish government changed the rules some years back so that when a rape took place the race of the criminal could not be disclosed. The reason this happened was because the vast majority of rapes were carried out by immigrants either black or swarthy. This reality was an embarrassment to a government hell bent on multicuture so the law was used to prevent disclosure. But most people with half a brain know the score about what is really happening on the streets of Sweden.

this issue about rape in sweden is too much,why is it that is only immigrants that rape these swedish women,what of there men,come to see how things works,there is no swedish that don't have a wife or a girlfriend,you can see a swedish men for six years without having sex,so the last result is for him to rape a woman and they will say is an immigant.a swedish man find it too hard to talk to woman,but an immigrant don't need a drink to talk to a woman.rape is very bad,i think anybody that do it is very sick,but women should learn how to compose themself.women should learn how to dress well.

Please Stop blaiming the others for your social failures.

Here we go again with your ranting. It says they were CHARGED with rape, not that they were convicted. They deny the accusations. Why are you choosing to trust the girl?

I think it's kind of odd that someone would be stupid enough to rape someone on a TRAIN where it's certain that they'll get caught. My first thought was that it's a scam and she's trying to get financial compensation for "rape." Either she's acting as an individual or she's working for (or being forced to work for) a wider criminal network.

Likely nothing will be proven. These "rapists" will go free and everyone will bash Sweden's justice system. Pity people are so narrow-minded

All sex with below 15 year olds is rape. Unless the perpetrator is below 16 years of age. According to the law. So, pedo-rape is a pointless term.

Why do people always assume rapist in Sweden are always immigrants (I'm an immigrant, so I must be a rapist to, huh?). Show me some proof of it. This article doesn't say that the men charged are immigrants, does it? And as far as the girl lying, it is possible, but people in Sweden who sue others get a very small amount of money. Take for instance the case where the girl was beaten and tortured for four hours http://www.thelocal.se/19448/20090514/ the girl was only compensated 21,000 kronor. So I don't see people making up stories like this solely for money. One man said he admitted " to having had sex with the girl but claims that he had no idea she was so young." But what about the other girl, was she raped as well, and did the other man admit to having sex with her too. There is so much that is pure speculation here.

What does how women dress have anything to do about rape?? A woman is allowed to wear whatever she wants without having to fear being raped! That means anything from being stark naked to being dressed very well. Besides, this story actually pertains to a rape at night so that means the teen girls probably wore pyjamas...

Which is why it's a scam. You sleep with an older man, don't tell him your real age, and then claim he raped you and ask for compensation for emotional distress. It's not uncommon at all. As for the money - she'd have nothing to loose. She could be desperate. She could also be foreign and not be aware of the light compensations in Sweden. I still think it's a scam since I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to rape someone on a train they are registered on. We'll have to see how this story unfolds.

Oh, and it's very convenient to have a friend there as a witness who for some reason didn't stop the rape and apparently wasn't raped herself.

Ah yes, the age old argument of the rape defendant "but she was wearing only a halter top and a short skirt, I HAD to rape her!" People say that all the time, and the courts (at least in the US, and I bet in Sweden too) look at the rape victim as if they were indeed looking to get raped! It is pathetic. I agree with what Tim Harrison said. And to victzie your comment "but women should learn how to compose themself.women should learn how to dress well," so are you advocating that people who wear certain clothes deserve to be raped? Judging by that comment you are a pretty conservative person who might think women should wear a burka and only have their eyes seen!

they should hang those losers by their balls.

I think rapes concerning younger girls are always in the grey zone.

I feel really sorry and sympathize with girls who were true victims of rape and assaults but sometimes there accusations are not true.

I have had teenage girls coming up to my boyfriend when we are out asking him to buy a cigarrette or beer and offer to do anything for him...

I mean like "Kaethar" siad maybe it is a scam to get money of the basis of emotional distress. I find it hard to believe that a girl can be raped on a moving train... why didnt she SCREAM??? why didnt her friend help??? who she raped as well???

Why didnt she inform the staff working in the train about what has happened??? Where was here mobile to call the 112 and tell what has happened to her???

QUESTIONSS ...

But if the case is true and the girl was raped... the men should be punished and not be given the chance to pled unstable mental health and escape the justice system......

jimmyjames sorry i DONT agree completely with u i dont know where r u from but sorry it seems like u r (****) OK then it seems that u cant speak Swedish there is many Swedish website saying that most of the cases are Swedish ESPECIALLY especially (( The INCEST )) cases if u have time take a look at the website translate with Google translate and say to me then this is Scientific view, talk about STATISTICS not about ur (* )THOUGHTS, then the crime is a matter of human nature can happen by anyone REGARDLESS of anything else ( ethnic, religion, colour...etc.) then again the incest cases is common in Western World and much more the poor (Third eastern World)

BUT GET IT INTO YOUR HEADS ALL YOU SILLY PEOPLE!

According to swedish law, since 1 of april 2005, If a 55 year old man has sex with a 14 year old its rape. It doesnt matter if she was unconcious, sortof willing, screaming and kicking or if she tied him down and ripped his clothes off, its rape all the same. No violence, no coercion is needed. Even 17 year olds have been convicted of rape due to their willing partner being underage.

Typical scenario 1:

13/14 year old scores an older boyfriend, say 18 year old. Some1 in family of girl does not approve and report it. Boy/young man is sent to prison and fined. Often the "perpetrator" is of foreign descent, it might be the sole reason for the dislike from the familymember.

Typical scenario 2:

13/14 year old scores an older boyfriend, say 18 year old. Boy dumps girl, girl pissed off, report to the police, boy/young man is sent to prison and fined.

Then we have the atypical scenario, where the law is sortof working, depending on your moral perspective. Like in this train-case. I dont have a big problem with that and I, personally, dont have any problem staying away from 14 year olds. But I would prefer if the crime had its own name, to me rape is a violent crime.

Why are you bringing race into this? Its as relevent to weather they wore black or blue jeans.

I agree with one point, why were these men put in the same sleeping compartment with two young girls, that is insane.Have SL been made answer to their actions? No, they will not even bat an eyelid and do the same next week. No one here knows the FACTS of the case, its pure speculation weather the men are guilty or not.

http://www.aina.org/news/20051215134351.htm

To peropaco

According to Bra the Crime Prevention Council it is 4 times more likely that a rapist was born abroad. If you're willing to bet that 98% of rapes are committed by Swedes, I'll wager 100 000 Kr with you! You have no evidence just an assumption based on ignorance.

To Harding00

We are not saying that all immigrants are rapists but that the vast majority of rapists are immigrants, big difference!

To victzie

It's people like you who are the problem. "Women should learn how to compose themselves and dress well"!! No, ignorant scum should learn how to control themselves. It's these attitudes (cultural differences) that lead idiots to believe they have the right to rape.

This is a terrible situation and a horrible trend. I am am immigrant who have settled in sweden after my studies here and am working now. It is quite true as per my observation that in immigrant mojority areas rate of crimes is higher. I personally don't feel secure in such areas where most of the immigrants are living. Most of the asylum seekers and immigrants come from totally different cultures and male dominant societies. In their societies they exploit women and even here they try the same; to women from their own societies and to local women. A social and judicial solution has to be sought to this rapidly growing problem.

Back some days one of my friend was drunk in Stockholm when he took taxi and the immigrant taxi driver robbed him . And 5 of his fellow immigrant taxi drivers threatened him that he should go home or all of them will rape him. I was wondering what they would do to girls if they ever travel with them back home after club. Its a pity.

Another fact is that even in areas where immigrants are not populated crimes are there. All kind of crimes including sexual crimes. Recently one of the cases was in media where a girl committed suicide before her case was opened in the court. The guy who was responsible is sentences to 3 years on charges of rape and sexual assault and drugs. 3 years is nothing for such charges.

After that another 18 years old girl committed suicide because the rapist who happened to be her best friends brother was given a right to appeal against courts decision. It took 8 months before the hearing started first time and it took 3 years after rape that the decision was announced first time. SO she committed suicide after 3 years of her rape. What i derived was that her counseling was weak and the judicial system also dint help her.

There is a sheer need to strengthen the law enforcement system and its time to be more tough against criminals where ever they come from and who so ever they are.

Brugge u r kiddinig HA haha ha u bring news from Christian News Agenies that have prejuduice against others, and EVEN even if thats right even, look at the Guirdian the well known Journal what they say about The Catholic Priest not (Ordinary People ) that u r talking about that dont know anything about Islam ( That if this news not fabricated or exagurated):

((('Endemic' rape and abuse of Irish children in Catholic care,)))

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/20/irish-catholic-schools-child-abuse-claims

thousands of children abused by Catholic Clerics ( not ordinary people that dont have info about the Religion) and there are much more news if u want.

I wasn't kiddnig, no. I'm not sure where you're getting the Christian thing from, but as we all know, Christians are frauds and liars about anything and everything, right? I do like your strawman about priests though. "immigrants arn't bad because of these priests are (maybe) as bad!" cute. even if it were true, (it isn't) assuming you're right (you arn't) , why would Sweden want to import people who commit the same horrible crimes?

regardless,

perhaps these would suit you better.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/sanandaji6.html

http://www.alipac.us/article1650.html

http://www.norwaypost.no/content/view/21900/1/

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/003180.html

bah if the majority of rapes in Sweeden are done by immegrants...then simply deport them, after whatever prison time they get. If rapes are commited alos by swedes the exile them duh...

First, no No not all Christian are bad, second most of the media directed against Islam or sometimes against Orthodox or against immigrants in general or Africans, anyway, if u count like this then we could say that the Global Warming and destruction of the climate and earth is driven 99% by Catholics, Protestants. 1st Nuclear bomb dropped by Protestants, 99% of the Slavery, destruction and Abusing Starvation of Africa and Invasion and

Occupation AROUND the Whole World is driven by Catholics and Protestants, 1st World War & 2nd WW started by CathProtet caused MILLIONS of dies, Financial Crisis also, this is very silly

For ex. Hitler thought as a Nazist not as a something else, It's a matter of thoughts irrespective of wat u r or came from, world is changing it's like a village, LET US live in Peace.

Fact: The girl was 14. Deciding whether she consented or not should only matter for length of sentencing. Because of her age it is rape.

Now she is also claiming rape and the men have been arrested, we will see how it plays out from here. Eventually Sweden will be forced to change all of their laws. To make the punishment more harsh for such crimes.

Many people question why so many jump to "racism" by decrying that the crimes are all committed by non-natives. The simple truth of it is, that foreign born residents are statistically more likely to commit crimes. Of course there are Swedish criminals, but that does not negate the fact that it is more foreign born. Below is Sweden's crime prevention site with statistics and all the information your hearts content.

http://www.bra.se/extra/pod/?action=pod_show&id=1&module_instance=11

it's true that a majority of rape cases are committed by immigrants. However that doesnt mean that rape didnt exist before the immigrants started arriving into sweden in droves.

About 70% of rape cases are committed by guys of middle eastern or arab heritage. Blacks, swedes and others share the rest of the spoils.

boddhisatva,i can never be a problem to anybody,people like me know how to wow a woman and will not go for a long time without a woman friend.many swedish men will stay for ages without a woman,i have been around people like you,there is no family values among your young people here,all these starts from your family,childern talk to their perents any how they want,so tell me why your you and old men cannot take no for an answer.everywhere there are bad eggs.take note it not only immigrants,your people shares the better part of it.some of your women say they where raped,just to get money for it.

70% eh? and santa really can fly in a sleigh pulled by reindeer. equally factual i'd say.

The simple truth of it is that 3 out of 4 crimes are committed by a foreign born these days. That would actually make it 75%. Now perhaps most immigrants only commit bank robberies and perhaps 80% of all rapes are by Swedes. I cannot know this. What I can know is that 3 out of 4 crimes are committed by foreign born and apply it across the spectrum.

To deny the truth for the sake of diversity is foolish. People will blame the girls or cry racist, rather than accept the cold truth; there is a high correlation between crime and immigration.

The United States has been the most diverse nation in the world for a very long time. With so many cultures and colors, to see us functioning at such a high standard, is quite a fascinating experience. Pretty much everywhere else in the world lives in a homogeneous society. With the advent of globalization and your "Eurabia" it has become a subject of interest to watch the world catch up and cope.

Weekend Warrior, I have been trying for a long time to find actual BRA statistics out to verify the claim that immigrant men are more likely to be rapists in Sweden, but using your link I only come to the English Language home page. Can you please provide the search parameters and-or more detailed links for the assertion you make? I have heard this so many times, but when I try to do a search on BRA in English or Swedish I cannot find any information.

i'm with DidiE wanting to see the source you're using to establish the "facts" you're presenting. thanks.

Dont you mean that 70% of peaple convicted of rape originate from abroard? I doubt that this statistic is true anyway... maybe conducted from a sample of "opinions" from some far right party or another.

But even if it was I think it folly to draw racial stereotype based on a bit of data deliberately minipulated to "prove" something or another.

Maybe a guy who originates from the middle east is more likely to be convicted in a swedish court by a jury of overwhelmingly white svenssons? Maybe vast the majority of rapes are committed by swede but just remain unsolved or unreported?

From my experience (and it is subjective I know) I would say that your average immigrant is far less likely to rape someone than Sven Svenny Svensson from Svenstad who staggers out of his local bar at 2 Saterday morning haveing binge drunk (or drinked.. my english aint what it was) for the past 10 hours. He doesnt get caught because the victim was only able to decsribe his Swedish, whereby if he were foriegn... well lets just say it narrows the field a bit...

Statistics need to be treated with care. If you just take rubbish like 70% of this or 90% of that at face value without thinking deeper and ask asking how the stats could end up looking like this ... well then you may be one of the 10% of people using this forum who is a retard...

There is a huge elephant in the room and at least two previous posters have attempted to point it out, but no one seems to be paying any attention to it:

Statutory Rape

All this discussion about the hypothetical ethnic background of the rapists, what girls were wearing, how they behaved, and everything else is entirely moot.

The fact is that the two men are not alleged rapists. They are rapists because the girls in question are underage. End of story.

i am very tired and a little incoherent at the moment. I was able to track down this piece from Brå. It's a report on Crime and Immigrants.

http://www.bra.se/extra/measurepoint/?module_instance=4&name=ENGSUMMARY.pdf&url=/dynamaster/file_archive/051214/60257a9f34f07207c56544c72654e44b/ENGSUMMARY.pdf

I was wrong with my stats earlier. While I am sure what I posted earlier (3of4) I did read, I cannot track it down. I have discovered that 25% of Crime in Sweden is committed by immigrants with another 20% committed by those born in Sweden to atleast one immigrant parent. People with a foreign background are 5 times more likely to be convicted of sexual crimes than Swedish. And yes I am aware that conviction, does not mean foreigners are the most accused.

I support no mercy for anyone having sex with a child.

At minimum, castration and penectomy should be the minimum for these two guys.

As for the train.

Whoever allowed the situation to develop where two children are sharing sleepers with two men, should be at minium put in a jail for the criminally insane.

thank you, apparently I cannot double post, and I had too much to write before.

@Nem- I agree with you and perhaps the company will enforce a new rule to that effect. Sadly like all laws and rules, I believe they are necessary, but really only treat the symptom and not the disease. The disease being that people lack the knowledge and judgment to look out for their own best interest. That said.

Re: from earlier post(s)

Regardless, my point that I was trying to make earlier is that with immigration there has been a significant rise in crime. Furthermore, I find it rather convenient that I accused Sweden, like much the rest of the world as becoming just as racist and violent towards immigrants as the US has been infamously accused of being. So many have stood on their high horses above the US, and today right now, an article pops up on the local about a lynch mob forcing immigrants out of a small town in the north. Much like the KKK, while I am sure this is not the beginning nor by a long shot the end, I would like to welcome Sweden and Eurabia to your new world. May you be as prosperous as we have been. Although I highly doubt it, as our nation was born of diversity.

As per weekend warrior's statistics of 25% and 20% of crime being committed by immigrants, that leaves us with 75% and 80% being non immigrants (swedes). So simple maths, how can 25% be more than 75%.

Another thing, if one is born to a swedish and immigrant parent, why is it that their immigrant blood that counts for their lack of morals?

My two cents to this issue is just one question, What happened to a simple lie detector test or testing in hospital for forced entry? Plus if newspapers wanted to mention names, all they need to do is interview the victims after the verdict, cos then they would be able to write exactly what was said in the interview.

Small point: Swedish courts don't operate a Jury system. Judgements are made by a judge and a number of advisors. I still find this pretty amazing, particularly in light of the spectacularly un-biased judge in the Pirate Bay case.

It seems odd that people are misinterpreting fairly iffy 'statistics' here as well. What is meant by 'immigrants' here then? Are we all one homogenous bunch - Me, people I know from Ireland and New Zealand who have settled here, together with all the Finns, Somalis, Albanians, Kurds and the rest of them. Are we all the same then? If the OP wants to say '75% of all rapes are committed by darkies' or some other such crap come out and say it. Because saying that it is 'immigrants' doing it is utterly utterly meaningless.

Is this the US that you are referring to?

Jasoncarter,

What do you find amazing about it? Personally, I think it's a pretty sensible system.

Maybe this should be a separate topic.

Thanks for putting me right there jasoncarter. Fortuneatly i have been able to avoid going to court during my time here in sweden. I guess the lack of a jury does explain why certain balmy judgements have been made of late which seem so out of line which what normal people appear to think.

Oddly anough, this being the homeland of public statistics, the statistics concerning immigration and crime is subpar. You wont make any sense of them without a lot of secondguessing and that in itself destroys credibility, which ever way you want to argue.

Miss Kitten is absolutely correct in pointing out that two young girls boarded a train, and, no matter what lame excuse the adult males made, the fact is sexual activity between adult males and children is illegal. It really makes me ill to think of these kids alone in a confined space with two so called grown ups.

I thank you for this link. I now am reading through it, and it makes some very interesting points. An astute reader could cut and paste out of context and make arguments for and against everything that has been posted here regarding immigrants and who is doing what. I appreciate being able to read this article and form my own conclusions.

Some people's comments here are exactly what I expect. While I cannot deny the statistics about immigrants, alot of what has been said is gross generalisations. This is the reason why I could never stay here! I am a student here from the Caribbean and I look like one of the offensive 'non-western' groups of people and it irks me everyday that Im automatically grouped. I just want to make a point that there are 'immigrants' (we know european immigrants are not really considered)out there who are respectable and have no interest in staying in such a bigoted society, or milking the Sweden for anything, who are hard working and law abiding. Swedes need to stop thinking that every black immigrant is a potential criminal, but just like they do, would like to see the world. If they question their government's decision to take in so many immigrants,maybe I should ask my government why they are letting in racists to come live and spoil the multi cultural, tolerant fabric of society as well as exploit the environment of the caribbean with their overconsumption! I should be just as stupid as you guys are being and say to my government that Swedes threaten the stability of the country with their divisive nature (see, Im sure youre offended..see how stupid you guys sound?)But you see I cant do that, cuz Im not sick and closed like some of you are being

It is very difficult to find any solid facts relating to crime. The only hard facts I can find relates to the overwhelming numbers of murders are committed by Europeans with 85% of those convicted coming from Sweden (68%), Nordic (9%) or european countries (8%)

Isn't it curious, don't you think, that there is no easy way to answer this question? But in fairness, I am not sure I could find out how many people convicted of rape in the US were born outside the US. Or maybe I could- I'm just frustrated that it could be so hard to find out a statistic that 'everyone' seems to know already.

Trinaican, not sure you are posting to the right place. This is more of a hang out for English-speaking immigrants to Sweden, than it is for äkta Svensson. There is no 'you guys' here- more likely that we would be more sympathetic to the stuff you encounter and understanding where you are coming from.

It is problematic - there are some statistics out there that show an overrepresentation of those born outside Sweden - which probably includes most of us in its definition - however when I read the methodology it said that it was based on 'suspects' and not those actually convicted - which I think makes it less reliable - but nowhere near some of the crazy figures quoted on here.

There is also a problem that some of the statistics quote sexual crime as asingle category - however this involves a huge range of crimes which are not necessarily rape:

- rape

- statutory rape

- attempted rape

- date rape

- marital rape

- sexual assault

- sexual harrasment

- pornography

- flashing

etc etc

However of reported crimes - based on the victim's report:

- 98% of rapists are men

- 80% new their atacker - with 32% having a close relationship

- 48% of rapes occur in the victim's own home

If you buy the cheapest sleeping place they are unisex bunk bed compartments with 6-8 beds - there are not women and men only compartments. You can also get cabins that sleep 2-4 that can be locked however these are more expensive.

Personally I would not allow a 14 year old to travel in an unsupervised communal sleeping compartment - I think SJ might need to think about allowing minors to travel alone on a night train as a result of this case

You could also turn your argument on its head and ask why would 2 men in their 50s take the risk of having sex on a train with young girls? - were they drunk? on drugs?

However the prosecutor seems confident of her case

- the men have admitted having sex with a 14 year old which is statutory rape

- There are 5 witnesses who saw various different parts of what happened - which back of the girl's story

http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/uppland/nyheter/a...Artikel=2848058

Well trinaican (or nic_tester, hardwood & kaethar) we can draw some conclusions if we actually examine the reported statistics and use some common sense:

Brå and RFSU estimate from their 2007 surveys that only 20-30% (say 25%) of rapes are actually reported to the police. So in most rape cases the race/nationality of the perp is never established. Of those that are reported only 18% result in a trial (0.25x0.18= 4.5%) For cases that do go to court:

in 27% of rape, 34% of aggrevated rape (grov våldtäkt) and 17% of child rape cases these charges are dropped, thrown out or a not guilty verdict is returned – again the race of the perp is never established. (Say 25% on average – 0.75x 0.045 = 3.4%). So in less than 5% of rapes committed in Sweden is the perpetrator ever identified.

Of cases where there was a guilty verdict 35% were committed by people well known to the victim, 28% by casual aquaintances, 20% by ”nearest and dearest” and 9% by strangers. One can propose that rapes are more readily reported by Europeans where the stigma of rape has been lessend by changes in social attitudes and awareness. Considering the divided society that exists in Sweden is it likely that the 55% of rapes committed by relatives and close aquaintances are cases with middle eastern immigrant males and european women/girls? It doesn't add up.

The report from BRÅ does point out that the rate of conviction is higher if the accused is non-white - and poses the question of why that is.

Having said all that: I travel a lot on trains in Sweden, I am a gorgeous Adonis, about 12 years younger than the two men in question, speak fluent Swedish, – but I have never been propositioned by a teenage girl on the train. It just doesn't happen. 14 year old girls chase 16 year old boys. On the bright side there are two middle age guys who've told their mates they're off to Stockholm for a few days and (assuming they've not been released) won't turn up or work on Monday - and Skellefteå isn't that big of a place.

Thats different, thats the US, but this is SWEDEN for crying out loud! If we cant even record statistics in an orderly fashion, then what are we good for?

It does make one wonder, in a country that has a population that is only the size of LA County, and one that has such an extensive folkbok system, that it is so very difficult at times to get basic information. Having had to work with crime statistics from, well, LA County, I am amazed at how fast that particular county is, in providing usable data. By comparison, I made an official request for some data three years ago from a to be unnamed official Swedish authority and it's still not ready.

The good old days are long gone.

I wonder if Swedes are more naieve, or perhaps less suspicious, of others than those of us who grew up in other cultures? For example, on beaches one often sees children running around with no clothes on, and every so often, women who sun bathe topless. I don't attach any value judgment to that at all, myself, but have often wondered a.) about the people I sometimes see taking surreptitious pictures of said women with cell phone cameras, and b.) what parents would think if they seriously thought for a minute about their children being photographed that way by pedophiles? I don't want to turn this into an indictment on uptight American morals- rather, I just think that I automatically think these thoughts, whereas my Swedish relatives seem shocked that anyone would. Thus, the question- is it possible that such thinking doesn't enter the Swedish psyche?

Thanks DidiE for pointing out the obvious. I am well aware that this is a forum for non Svenssons. That being said, I should have said, 'the Swedes' ( in a veeery generalised sense meant to imitate the ignorance of ppl who actually say that), rather than 'you guys'. And also you should be aware that alot of people who are immigrants hold them same views os those Swedes, so including some English speaking people is not far off from my target. thanks

Oh, it's what I get paid for- I point, and there is the obvious, just waiting for me. And what is obvious is that racism and religion-ism and sexism and ageism and every kind of ugly hatred- none of these things have boundaries, do they? It's amazing that the same group of creatures that can compose beautiful symphonies and find cures for cancer, can also erect concentration camps and hold lynchings.

But going back to the main thread here, sexual assault on underage minors- did I miss something, was there an insinuation that immigrants were involved in this particular case? Would the adult males' background make the case any more or less reprehensible? Rape is rape, is it not- yes, I not only point out the obvious, but over-simplify it too. But I am concerned- I am the mom of a teenage girl, and this is raising all kinds of fears in me. I'd never in a million years send her overnight on a train, but that is because- see earlier posts- I am a paranoid misanthrope. I don't know if it's because I am from the US, or because I was born that way, but I am surprised, often, that my Swedish relatives with kids similar ages don't seem to be nearly as worried as I am about things.

CTIDinARST ..hope I got it right

I read your statistical analysis with interest and one line stood out:

'The report from BRÅ does point out that the rate of conviction is higher if the accused is non-white - and poses the question of why that is.'

I can suggest as to why that is, people are naturally more prejudiced and scared of the unknown or new...so the influx of non western immigrants into Sweden would be one of the easier targets. I can draw a parrallel with Sweden now and the past attitudes to blacks,and asian people before and during the civil rights struggle in the States. Black men were often charged for committing crimes when they were innocent. (Not saying thatBlacks in the states are not the majority of offenders as most of the prison population comprise of blacks and hispanics.Integration of new people takes time, the states is one of the more diverse places in the world and yet still there are tensions.

As for the numerous comments about the rape, not to insult anyone, I have to say we donot live in an ideal society. Some people are just plain animals, so while it may be ideally norml for cohabitation in these cabins, there are perverts out there.There should not be cabins such as those.

It's just this simple:

2 mid-50's men (ANY ancestral heritage) + 2 mid-teen girl's (ANY wardrobe or appearance) in a closed compartment car overnight = TROUBLE JUST WAITING TO HAPPEN.

Personally, you can quote all the statistics you want, but statistics LIE. I don't feel that this one article alone gives any of us enough information to start throwing around absolutes. Save your breath and your blood pressure.

And FYI, anyone CHARGED with a crime is innocent until CONVICTED of that crime; thus, no matter what, until the facts come out in court, this will continue to be called an "alleged" crime.

Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Read: Scam.

Sure, immigrants have a ligit grievence, swedes gonna have a negative view of them. But consider, sweden has suffered unwanted immigration, sponsored by cetrain elites, for the last 30 years. Some of the hatred this has created spills on the innocent immigrants, hopefully most of it is reserved for the politicians and journalists. You just cant understand and measure swedish public expression the same as however you measure it wherever you come from. Swedes express themselves strangely and indirectly.

If you believe the enlightened stuff you read in the media you are a fool. Or, you dont know many swedes. There is a rage brewing, slowly but surely, growing ever more rank each year that pass. At least that is what I understand. Of the swedes I speak to, maybe 1 in 10 is somewhat positive to refugee imigration. 8 in 10 are ranging from negative to extremely negative.

Let me give you some facts that you can check yourselves on your home computers: 1.) In an attempt at social engineering, political correctness, and multi-ethnic harmoney the news media for years in the USA has purposely ommitted the race of the perpetrators of crimes unless they are Caucasion ( unbelievable but true ) 2.) According to the FBI Yearly Crime Statistics, African-Americans account for the vast majority of Murders and Rapes nationwide. 3.) In areas of the USA where 90% of the population is Caucasion ( Western States and the Pacific Northwest ) STILL the majority of all violent crime is attributed to either African-Americans or Mexicans. 4.) The vast majority of AIDS and other Venereal Disease is amongst the African-Americans. You Swedes will discover as your immigrant population increases so too will your crime statistics. In every European country this is the case, as it is in Australia, New Zealand,Canada, ect. You'll see.

I believe that's the point that many posters in this thread (many of whom are immigrants themselves) are trying to make. This is the message board for The Local: Sweden's News in English, the target audience of which is the fairly large group of English-speaking immigrants/expatriates in Sweden. I always find it kind of funny how immigrants to Sweden come here and complain about the problems caused by immigrants to Sweden. Of course they don't mean immigrants like them. They mean the "brown immigrants." There is an unfortunate, but definite, distinction made between immigrants from the US, UK, Australia, and New Zealand and those from African and Middle Eastern Countries. When my boyfriend's brother makes a remark about the "jävla invandrare" (goddamn immigrants) I gently remind him that I'm one of those goddamn immigrants too.

Okay, Jimmy James. Where are your sources? In this case, I might even violate my own policy and say, if you can even provide a Youtube link from an official source, I might even be bothered to watch it, just to see if you know what you are talking about. Using such words as social engineering (a call back to eugenics), 'vast majority', and AIDS stats demands neutral, and official sources.

You know what? I am NOT a fan of women's status in Islam. I am NOT a fan of the honour culture that is associated with Islam. But I am starting to feel a sort of demonisation of Muslims going on here, at least on this board, that reminds me, on a small scale, of the same type of emotional, and false, propaganda that surrounded the Jewish population last century. If you are going say this stuff, prove you are right, and then we have an intelligent discourse on the matter.

(I am really really trying not to get cited for breaking Godwin's law here. Do I at least get points for that?)

Edited to add: CTIDinÅrsta, which routes do you normally travel? I'd like to form my own opinion on Adonis-status, since such labels are normally conferred by others, not one's self.

Miss Kitten you are indeed the speaker of all things true. For so many of the rasist bigots who seem to frequent this forum, is is not about people from other nations moving to sweden, but rather people with another (non-white) skin colour.

Its is rasism pure and simple whether you dress up your skapegoats up as assylum seekers or as refugees. To present xenophobic stereotypes it up as "facts" is just benal rubbish. These people are scum and should be "outed" as such. Sweden benifits from one decent assylum seeker more than from a thousand of these hated filled morons.

Miss Kitten after much thought I have decided to end my homosexual cyber relationship with freethinker, get you to dump your boyfriend and have dozens of little half english half feline babies with you instead...

Why, thank you, Jämtjim. I confess myself quite flattered and half tempted by your proposal. I mentioned it to Mr. Kitten and he said, "That sounds a little unnerving."

If you do travel by train, be on the lookout for an stunningly handsome, godlike passenger. That's all I'm saying...

so what's this impostoring as a jamt then? where's guy to set jim straight?

*calls out to gus

With lots of sources:

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12/immigrant-rape-wave-in-sweden.html

Sweden has become a country of deviants and Misogynists. These older men should be hanged for taking advantage of a minor. This kind of Anti-Social behavior was unheard of in Sweden 20 years ago. History has shown that societies who fail to arrest these problems inevitably fall in ruin and dismemberment.

Jamtjim, you hussie! I see how it is...just becuase I'm hetro you're just gona toss our friendship aside, you you hetroist!

Hey Jamtjim are you sure you want to be with Kitten? Think dude...if you turn hetro that'll mean less homosexual men. Look the more homosexual males out there create more women in need of hetro male attention. As I said in a prior thread if 99.9% of the hetrosexual male population go gay I'll step up and do all I can to comfort all those lonely women, hey someone's gotta do it.

New Yorker I seriously question that. You should see how things are in the US. Consider as well Sweden tries to make sure someone convicted is actually guilty, and they don't seem to react with their emotions 1st then later say...oppsss...Rape in Sweden has a much broader deffinition than in the US, and I like that. Give Swedes a break. I'm sure they'll figure out how best to deal with things according to how they want things to be.

Harding00...I agree. No matter who assaulted them, they need to be punished. Seriously, who in their right mind put two young girls with two old men? I would not feel comfortable with two older men and I'm 27.

Miss Kitten: Thank you! Point being, they raped! I don't care if they are Swede, German, Indian, whatever! It doesn't matter! Point is they need to be punished for the @ssholes they are!

Mmmm - so you rely on information from the blog from someone who doesn't live in Sweden and who links to statistics that do not cover those CONVICTED of rape.

Very reliable - NOT

New Yorker says This kind of Anti-Social behavior was unheard of in Sweden 20 years ago.

Yeah, okay, but 20 times 50 years ago, there was a little group called the Vikings who thought nothing of spreading their seed far and wide. You might want to ask the British and the Irish about this. The point here is that sexual violence is NOT a genetic imperative for any group of people per se, otherwise the Vikings would still be roaming up and down the British coasts. Or maybe it IS a genetic imperative, if you're a fan of social biology- but it is clear, when you look at the overall sexual violence trends over the centuries, that such violence can be reduced by social responses- changes in attitudes, changes in punishment and legal procedures, support for victims, etc.

I always get irked when Sweden is cited as the perfect paradise. The unspoken, but often strongly assumed, belief is that Sweden is somehow a blip in human history, that the people here are so unusual that its approach to life could never be replicated elsewhere. Not so very long ago in human history, your nice group of Swedes were out terrorising the entire Atlantic.

And Etruscan, I'm with Puffin. I've seen that cheesy website. Ain't good enough.