Published: 31 May 09 10:46 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/19778/20090531/
Liberal party ministers Jan Björklund and Nyamko Sabuni have proposed a new schools law which removes the right to seek exemption from sexual education and swimming classes.
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schools must work irrespective of religion and culture .
there is no ecceptions based on religion.if you give that much importance to religion you are free to back to your country no one stopping you.
multi cultural society is big nonsence in sweden.
Exceptions such as this should be removed.
Parents who object, I would suggest having them visit a psychiatrist. That would cure the problem quickly. Either that or they can leave the country and go elsewhere.
I went to school in Northern Ireland at a catholic school. We were taught nothing about sex and I can assure you the people I was at school with are very screwed up when it comes to dating. Actually they are screwed up about everything.
multi cultural society=ghettos=social violence
"Whites" mutant inbred albinos are at "0" population growth, dont blame black people for you innate deficiency at reproducing.
Their are over 3 billion black people in the world,,,,400 million "whites", if that.
Your anger should not be aimed at Black people yet with god.
If a Swedish family traveled to an Arabic islamic country, Is it will accepted for them that their children have classes about Islam ?!!
I think you should review your opinions and try to think what if you are those people.
I think Sweden to still an advanced country, it should continue to respect the variation of the different people.
I think this new law is great. it forces the muslim population to mix with the rest of the world. lets face it, it say immigrants but i dont think any Americans, Thai, Finnish, or anyone else has a problem with this. It is only Muslims who have "honor" laws. And i wonder for people of say i am racist WHAT RACE IS ISLAM? Freedom of Speech is worth fighting for!
The law should be one for everyone, regardless of religion, color and other crap.
I came from wat we called "3rd" world we have Christians Jewish and some other minorities , they have the rights to not to take Islamic lessons, INSTEAD, they have thier own teachers that travel long ditance to give them lessons and take exams in thier religions??!!! YES in that wat we call "3d world"
Hamza Yusuf Hanson american converted to Islam said something realy intelligent and without prejuidice " Take the Best from the West and Leave the Rest"
NOT Everything in the west is good in my work (University) i have many (women ) friends that have children without Father,, they even hate those men coz they left them (they just slept (use or u can say Abuse) them) then searchinig for else escapinig from responsibility (IS This is the Western Culture??) she told me that about 50 000 women in only Swed have same problem ??
who is the guy who allowed ecceptions based on religion.
Why would you break the law in the name of religion or tradition? We don't care that female gender mutilation is a part of some cultures. It is illegal here. You want to live here - follow our rules.
Are you kidding? Give me one example. When non-muslim women travel to Iran or Saudi Arabia they DO put on the headscarves or abayas. Some try to break the law by drinking but they've been arrested, and rightly so.
... In Sweden it is written in law that all schools must teach about all religions. Do you know something I don't? If an Islamic private school is not teaching their kids about other religions they are breaking the law...
When I lived in Iraq I, as a Westerner, was taught about Iraqi culture (which included Islam) in school. This was part of the curriculum even in an international school. What precisely is the problem?
If I were those people I would get out of Sweden if I could not follow her laws. I would also stop demanding exceptions should be made for me since I realise how arrogant it sounds. But I find that this is ultimately the problem with religious people - there is no compromise on their part because they think what they believe is the absolute truth. Non-religious people integrate easily in Sweden. It's the religious people that's the problem. You need to ask yourself if these people really belong here.
Wrong. I know this is how it is in the Islamic world. Religious minorities live separately to the others with their own laws. This is not an ideal model to follow, which should be obvious to you given the ethnic and religious tensions in much of the Islamic world.
One law for all. This is what has made Sweden an advanced and progressive country. Changing this in the name of "respecting variation" will lead Sweden backwards, not forwards.
I am a muslim and I do live here in Sweden.. and I come from a so called 3rd world country.. where 30% of the population are Christians.. and I can assure you that a lot of arabs regardless of their religion have this gender and honor issues.. it has NOTHING to do with being a muslim.. it has to do with tradition.. I was lucky to be raised by very open minded parents.. but I had muslim and christian freinds who were not as lucky..
my fear towards these new rules about sex ed and swimming is those close minded parents would start home-schooling their children .. which would lead to even more complications in this sociaty..
even where I come from vailed girls did not take swimming classes when we had male teachers.
I fear that these rules will isoltae an already isolated part of the sociaty into a deeper hole.
DON'T ISOLATE THOSE POOR GIRLD MORE THAN THEY ALREADY ARE BY FORCING THEIR FAMILIES TO KEEP THEM HOME.
It fills me with anger when I hear these types of comments. I'm the proof that not all people from that region have the same opinion, but since I have moved here to Sweden I have recieved the looks and the comments! Even though I am not religious in any way.. am not vailed.. and do not speak English with any tracable accent.. just the colour of my skin that points out that I'm middle-eastern is all it takes!I haven't even moved here to run away from my home country! At first every time I recieved those looks I wanted to scream saying that I'm not like the rest.. I'm different.. but realised that makes me just as pregedist as the rest of these people are.
not like the Man Circumcision which is a Jewish/ Islamic tradition, which proved to have many advantages like decreasinig risk for AIDS, and some other STDs, decreasinig penis cancer..etc.
"50 000 women " yes may be i heard recentely about (# the Baby Box #) in Czech/ Poland gogle it ull see horrible things, if u r young mother and dont want you child throw it there the hospital will take it,, im wondering what is the sin of that little baby
Muslims pray five times a day and in their school Islamic studies are necessary.And if they impose this to all the children regardless of their background then how do u feel.Would like your children to pray with other Muslim students.I don't think so.
It is the same think.In Muslims sexual education in school is bad for Muslim children as praying of your child is bad for your children with other Muslim students.In Muslim sexual education is given by the Father to the Boy and by the mother to the girl.
It is only the Parents who know what is better for their children.Then who the hell these Jan Björklund and Nyamko Sabuni are to impose this.
Anyway, as far as the physical activity classes go, I think that the kids, whether muslim or otherwise, should have a say in whether they participate or not. Thank god I am not a schoolchild, I would certainly not enjoy being forced to participate in swimming classes. Perhaps the girls, even the non-muslims, don't really want to be made to parade around in public in a swimming costume. It always amazes me how schools are actually allowed to force kids to swim.
If any Muslim family teaches their girls the correct values of Islam, and discuss these issus with open mind with them, there will not be any problem.
If the Muslim girls understand and respects the difference of the culture and the values, she can easly participate on those classes, as long as girls and boys can do it separately, as mentioned above by the report.
I have become a Swedish citizen and try to abide by the laws of the land.
Before emigrating one needs to research what the country stands for and be prepared to accept what is offered to a greater degree.
Democracy is the political policy and if one decides to remain in Sweden he/she should be prepared to accept this.
If for whatever reasons one cannot/will not accept this fact then perhaps it is wiser to move home or to some other country that is more like-minded.
In Sweden gender is not an issue and should not be allowed to become one. Life is complicated enough as it is.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3723925,00.html
It is a national curriculum goal that children should be able to swim at least 200m by year 5 and at least 50m backstroke - so many children are disadvantaged.
However I do disagree with the hard tone used by some Ministers that prefers to threaten rather than persuade
It is "not" racist for Swedes to say " if you can't handle life here go back to whenst ye came"
Swedish values of today, were not the same as just a few decades ago,. It is fashistic to make other people adhere to current society trands and highly undemocratic.
As a child in Africa, i was taught in elementary school to "act as a Roman if i went to Rome". Unfortunately, people who say immigrants should leave if they cannot obey the laws of the land are somewhat justified.
Growing up in very diverse religous environment, I was thought to RESPECT differences. People of different religous and ethinc backgrounds should not be forced to renounce their religious upbringing.
And it is quite redicilous to talk here about Rosengord muslims, as if all muslims in Sweden live in Rosengord, or as if all other non muslim Swedes are for this law. I happen to have a very good religious christian friend who is against sexual education in schools as well. Needless to say, she is one of the nicest law abiding people.
Sweden is not third world country it is demcoracy at its highest and noone should be forced to make choices which are against their personal beliefs.
a school curriculum is a school curriculum. if there's a protest against a part of the prescribed curriculum there's a need to present the protest. religion or low self esteem should be valid "opt out" passes.
While I am a white european with no religion, I understand the needs of the right of the individual and should not be free allowed to ones own cultural identity
and the "when in rome" thingy isn't an "african education" but a european proverb. so, guessing from the example, one should not strive to implement the education model from where ever you're from (so where was it?)
no is requiring that. only that children educated in the swedish society adhere to the accepted curriculum prescribed for all children.
within a democracy the members agree to adhere to the democratically decided rules, regulations and laws. those who take it upon themselves to break those rules, regulations and laws should answer to the democratically elected legislative punitive measures.
Cultures has certain problems and religions especially Islam try to eliminate this naive kind of thinking, school can negotiate about teaching method, but sex education is right of every man and women.
all we should work on trust development, and religion is good tool to gain trust because religion always talk about human rights & sustainable development, we can pick good and bad of culture with instruments of religion.
I will invent a hijab-like swimming costume and at least help to kill half of this debate.
It is easier to follow the saying "If you can't beat em, join em"
Did I say it was a religious thing? Female circumcision is recommended in Islam but not FGM which is a cultural practice. They're two different procedures with different outcomes (I'll not go into detail) Point of the matter is that people claim it should be allowed because it's a part of their TRADITIONS and/or religion. But it is ILLEGAL here.
No it hasn't. They've found correlations but nothing that proves causality. Denmark is actually thinking about banning it and Sweden is sure to follow.
Not really a problem since I don't live in an Islamic country anymore. Or are you saying you wouldn't mind me turning up to an Iraqi school wearing a bikini and drinking beer? Or a more serious example: Smoking weed, since that's a part of Rastafari religious practice. Would you allow it to "respect differences."
If that's what you believe you should be living in an Islamic country. Simply put: You should be living in a country whose values match your own. Simple as that.
Who the hell are anyone to impose anything? Who cares whether the law states you shouldn't kill people (you can always twist the Quran's meaning to support killing).
The problem when you put religious law over man-made law is that children loose respect for authority (and we can see the effects of this clearly in Sweden).
This is YOUR opinion. YOU are not above the law. Don't like it - you have the freedom to move.
Your arrogant attitude is what pisses me off.
I was forced to swim even though I didn't want to. I'm glad for it today though. It's a safety issue. As has been said, those of foreign-descent in Sweden are overrepresented in drowning statistics.
People of foreign ethnic and religious backgrounds should not be above the law.
It can be my personal belief that killing is good. Anything can be a personal belief. Laws reflect the majority views of the people. I can tell you're from somewhere in the Islamic world. I'll ask you this... you may believe in "respecting diversity" but does having separate laws for different religious groups and therefore exclusion of some ethnic groups from the mainstream lead to trouble or success? I'd think really hard about this if I were you. Having lived in the Islamic world I know the true answer to this, so no lying please.
http://www.thelocal.se/16638/20081230/
http://rightlowerpole.files.wordpress.com/.../04/burkini.jpg
@Alma, ..the quoted proverb wasn't in the African educational curriculum, I just wanted you to notice that they already teach us as young children that we owe it to our countries of origin to also obey laws of our host countries when we travel. The laws banning any kind of exemption isn't going to be decided by the government even if they proposed it, I am sure though that it will be approved as majority of Swedes and "people living in Sweden" will favour it. Besides, I remember being rebellious as a teenager because I wasn't allowed by my family and religion to do most of the things I wanted to do as a child, children are not just the responsibility of the parent but the entire society else parents on welfare should also be responsible for the upkeep of their children without financial aid from the government.
(The Baby Box ) is invented by Western Culture (Unfotunately) ok not everything wrong but id say from this side,, and keep Polite Speech here,, do u understand everyone can Speack sharp words BUT not everyone can think??!!
A right to choose is a fundamental part of freedom. It seems ok to islamaphobes and immigrant bashers that these RIGHTS are taken away when it does not affect YOU. If and when in the future your rights are violated and you are forced to conform to political ideology of how things should be then I guarantee people will get rattled.
We are not cattle or sheep just going along with the flow.......humans can think and choose.....and in countries proclaiming freedom of it,s people......the right to choose should remain....on all and not just on this topic.
Let's assume that your 50K number of single mothers is accurate (I would like to see where you got that number from). Since when do you think that being a single mom is primarily related to whether a person has sex ed courses or not? Have you considered the fact that most are single mothers due to failed relationships?
I find it amusing that you're more than willing to criticize western culture prior to having a true understanding of it.
*Thinks it's time for powerofknowledge to down a Powerofknowledge Bar* Beefcake! BEEFCAKE!
Kooritze i agree "removinig the right to choose" is non-democratic idea,
then we shouldnt we teach them when they become Adults and have the right to choose ,,,
In stead of teaching " A Child" how to make intercourse ??!! it is really a
" CONTRADICTION " in thier idea , you (obligate) a child to educate sex,
These laws were not proposed to target any particular group of people but it was concieved in the best interest of the children regardless of parental influence.
If parents abuse their children under religious pretext, the government has the power to protect them and even take them away from their parents, don't they?
Lets stop blabbing about people's rights and needs and focus on the good intentions of this "proposal".
Lets say we have large numbers of the immigrant population who aren't interested in integrating into Swedish culture, and have no interest in adapting to it even without integrating.
On the other side, you have the Swedes who see this and criticize it. While they may recognize that it is happening that way, they are under absolutely no obligation to respect you for rejecting their social norms and laws.
This IMHO is the problem. We're in the Swede's country. The Swede's culture. The Swede's laws. Let me put this another way... If you ask someone to live in their home with them and you do so, do you all of a sudden reject their customs because they don't match yours even though it's not your house and you were the one who asked to live there?
This is the way that I look at living in Sweden... Swedes have allowed me to live here, and even though I may not agree with everything Swedes do I certainly respect it and I do my best not to rock their boat. It's worked pretty well for me (save for the ID fiasco).
I wayyyyyyyyyyyyy do NOT agree with you.. this law is nothing agaisnt the fundamental basic rights.. if anything it's for it. We're having the same issues in Canada atm where immigrants come here and want to change the country's laws to fit their religious and cultural beliefs.. If you move to another country you must live according to their culture and beliefs.. if that's not in your plan.. why even move there to start with?
"Sweden has the highest incidence of reported rapes in Europe - twice as many as "runner up" the UK, a new study shows"
http://www.thelocal.se/19102/20090427/
Sweden has the highest gold medal holder in Olympic of reported swimming in Europe - twice as many as "runner up" the UK, a new study shows...is it true????????????????
They demand from you to be a Roman in Rome, so why would you let them be whatever they want wherever they are?
This thread seems to be drifting off topic - posters are advised to stick to the topic or start a new thread if they want to discuss something else or other aspects of immigration
Posts that are offensive will be removed
Puffin
men and women are equal so why don't they give birth to babies one after other i say islam ask for balamce and respect for women, you ask for freedom of every thing why don't you jump to sun or left the universe (actually when you forget your creator same time you foret your limits)
1. To date, there are only a very few studies exist that demonstrate a significant difference in drowning risks for children who have had swimming lessons, versus those who have not, and these studies all have methodological flaws. Yeah, you would think there was more data on this subject, but there isn't. If Sweden decides to really enforce swimming lessons, then I hope those of us who are strongly interested in drowning prevention can be successful this time in our push to do follow up studies. On the other hand, lacking firm evidence about the efficacy of swimming lessons, this is probably not the best one to push if you're wanting to integrate Muslim immigrants into Swedish education. The Minister in Charge should have done her homework on this one (although I do admire her for tackling this issue. She's about the only Moderate I like!)
2. Parents often have wishes that go against society's regulations- see the many parents who want to opt out of infant immunisations, for example. Whether Sweden wishes to allow a liberal opt-out policy or not, it is quite likely that parents who absolutely cannot tolerate their daughters receiving sex ed or swimming will find a way around these classes. Absences, repeated ones, due to illness, forming friskola, sending daughters out of the country, are all possible solutions. As overall education is one of the most important factors in ensuring the well being of women, it seems that a universal insistence that girls from devout Muslim families HAVE to take these two courses would just end up with families deciding to heck with the whole school system, which in turn will impact the girls for life. I'd be more sanguine about it all- let em opt out, and rest assured that is far more likely that the math(s), the Swedish language courses, and the work-study will end up having the best impact on these young women's overall well being in Sweden.
What I will ask you is why there is the feeling that Sweden needs to bend to your every need when it was you who asked to come here, even if you asked out of desperation and a real need (refugee status/asylum)? What is it that Sweden owes you? Why does Sweden owe you anything?
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/k2crc.htm
Pay close attention to article #2
It can be interpreted as both "respect the beliefs of the family so as not to discriminate based on their beliefs" etc., and also "do not give preferential treatment to anyone".
The problem in the interpretation is that it depends on what you think is correct. One person may say (in this particular case) "my beliefs don't agree with the sex ed and swimming classes" while another will say "everyone must go through these courses no matter what they believe, no exceptions and no preferential treatment because it is for the benefit of the child".
Why do people always turn these things into a muslim/sweden battle??
I think it is fair (my opinion) as it is a basic right for children which you cannot take from them. Ultimately this is changing that innocent childs views of what is right and wrong!!
It's mainly about teaching them about the biological reproductive process and "family planning". Yes, this will include information about contraception, but I'd have thought that it'd be taught in such a way that doesn't encourage youngsters to run out, with the boys sticking balloons on their willies, and start engaging in a variety of perverse and hedonistic sexual acts.
Who wouldn't want their children to understand how their bodies will change within the next few years (how many girls still freak out when they get their first periods?), and learn the truth about "where babies come from" and/or what grown-ups in most civilised societies do to prevent giving them too many brothers and sisters while still being able to express their love for one another?
And if some country had the courtesy to accept me from my own war-torn country, I know I would be grateful enough to that country to make an effort to follow their culture and their laws.
And as I asked earlier, do some cultures actually want to deny their children knowledge of how their bodies work - regardless of whether they're refugees or not?
Seems like most of Sweden's old laws has been undermined. Kvinnofriden is broken by women being mutilated and sold into marriage. Kyrkofriden is broken by police forcing themselves into churches and monasteries to take refugees into custody. Hemfriden is broken on a daily basis by vandals and burglars. Not even Ölfriden - each man's right to down his pint in peace - stands firm!
Seriously; this country has a written national curriculum. For those interested in what the National Curriculum states it's available in English here.
I don't think it's unreasonable to demand that all children are treated equally in school. The reason why Phys Ed was originally included is still very valid; to make sure that all children had access to strengthening their muscles and get exercise. Unfortunately an awful lot of children today spend so much time in front of computer screens and TV sets and so little time running around playing outside that they risk severe osteoporosis in later life. They need PE in school to make sure that they get exercise. This is regardless of religion or cultural background.
The reason why Sex Ed was included was to ensure that all people got access to knowledge on how to prevent unwanted pregnancies and STDs and to promote equality between the genders. How can this be a bad thing?
As for swimming... Why would it be bad to learn how to swim
No one is forcing your kid into a thong. Dress them in Victorian swim suits for all anyone cares. The curriculum does not state what kind of costume you should wear for PE or swimming lessons.
However, it ought to be a fairly low price to pay for ones life to be patient with and respectful towards the culture and laws of the country which offers me asylum... don't you think?
I am not saying that a refugee should forget where they came from, their family history etc. Celibrate it, after all it is valuable, but that doesn't mean that anyone other than the individual is obligated to respect and honor the refugee's culture. I don't agree with is that the country that they fled to should have to change in order to accomodate for their special needs. The host country provided safety and security for their lives. Why should the host country (in this case Sweden) owe anything else beyond that? Where is the justification that Swedish society should have to change in order to incorporate ideals which conflict with the existing societal norms? What makes the refugee's culture more important to protect than the culture of the host country?
Well I have seen war but i have a question for you. You run from your country in a war situation and another country takes you in without conditions except that you adapt and obey its laws.
Which is worse? you being abandoned and refused entry, left to die in the war? or being accepted into a new country and asked to obey its laws in order not to make life difficult for your hosts? people lived here before immigrants came here.
I remember being in Dubai and not being allowed to socialize with the beautiful and single dames there, we were not even allowed to share a taxi with women, I should consider that a breach on my fundamental human rights. In Saudi Arabia, as a christian, I found other christians in secret church meetings because according to law, it is illegal to gather as christians. In Sweden though, the government uses its hard-earned tax-payers money to build mosques and send muslim clerics to be trained abroad. I didn't see any public commendations for that.
i'll try not to extend that presumption to all other british swede guys.
Now that's what I call a correlation with no proof of causation.
Did you in some way confuse the US or UK with Sweden? I don't believe Sweden has been to war recently or carried out any terrorist attacks. So what's your point? How does this allow you to put yourself above Swedish law?
...
Equal does NOT mean "the same."
Social equality is a social state of affairs in which all people within a specific society or isolated group have the same status in a certain respect.
And no, Islam is not about equality. It's not about oppression of women as many in the West seem to believe, but anyone who believes Islam is a religion of equality is kidding themselves. In Islam there are gender roles and women and men play different parts.
This of course goes against mainstream Swedish values, which is where you'll have a problem...
Of course we can ask you too. Because you came here. You had other options, such as staying where you were or going to a country which has a culture similar to yours (which would seem to be the most obvious choice). It's amazing how so many Middle Easterners come to Sweden, a country which makes the US look like vatican city. It would be an enormous culture crash, even for Christian Middle Easterners. It's not an ideal situation for anybody, but we are definitely not asking too much when we ask you to follow our laws. As has been said for the 100th time - there is always the option of moving.
Yes, I said that word. Flaccid.
Flaccid.
FLACCID!
It's my birthday. I can say what I want. I hereby invoke flaccid chocolate cheesecake.
If a swedish girl goes to an arabic country, she can´t do whatever she wants.
Depending on which arabic country she goes to , she´s not allowed to sunbath, drink alcohol, drive a car, show her hair etc.etc.
If those people don´t want to follow the Swedish laws when in Sweden, GET THE **** OUT!
Put that thing in the fridge, mate; cheesecake should be firm.
And is it really reasonable to tell people to get out just because of swimming lesson. Do you not think that is just a bit of an overreaction? My daughter is an immigrant from the UK and there is absolutely no way whatsoever you could get her to take part in a school swimming lesson. Shall we start packing now? Really, it's ridiculous. Whether my daughter takes part in swimming lesson or not has no impact on anyone else so why is everyone so concerned in forcing her to do something she is so against.
It's all about balance and compromise. Yes, immigrants have chosen to come but the other side is that Sweden has chosen to have immigrants come here. It's all well and good to say that if you are invited into someone else's house you abide by their rules, but a good host also works at making their guests as comfortable as they can. I have dogs and they have free run of my house but when people come round who are uncomfortable with dogs they get contained (the dogs, not the visitors). I would be quite within my rights to say, "my house, if you don't like it get lost", but that says more about me than my visitors.
There's a key word there for me... "visitors". While still a visitor (in my mind that means non-citizen) it's important to treat your hosts with respect, and not to demand things from them. While it's not proper to say "do X or leave" by the homeowner, it's equally improper for the guest to say "I demand that you do X for me".
This whole thing is a two way street. You give a little you get a little. Everyone has to compromise, but when one side is overbearing the opposing party has every right to scream "foul!". In the sex ed and swimming case it may be that things are going too far by making it mandatory, but at the same time it's not as though Swedes haven't bent over backwards for us jävla invandrare on other issues.
My daughter had private swimming lessons back in England. Her auntie was a swimming instructor. She is a very good swimmer. There is nothing to be gained by forcing her to do it in front of her classmates.
Let the family Doctors who understands you more as a person to advise you privately and at the same time keeping your privacy safe. I am sure many Christian Jews Hindu girls Would not like to see a plastic sex-toys in the teacher's hand to show you how it works lol.
Sweden's should be worry more about other issue than to force a students for something they are not welling to learn. and Let the Family doctors to handle when it comes to sex teaching. So Muslims parents usually teach their kids about sex when they are small.
You find more people infected with HIV virus in Christians countries than Muslims that means Muslim countries and people are in saver. Nobody tough me or our grandparents but we are all doing good LOL
and it is something you learn it by yourself honestly hehe
So, let's say we follow your advice. That means 99% of the students will avoid learning the following:
basic arithmaticreadingwritinghistory/civicsany science whatsoeverintermediate native language skills
Instead, they're be drooling idiots who's only talent is flicking boogers for distance and accuracy.
Pure genius.
These subjects doesn't apply to your privacy directly as SEX teaching. there was not any issue about these subjects you are referring. we are talking about integration here as well.
Sex is different subject. I am not against learning Sex, but FAMILY DOCTOR is solution. and even I am man I am shy to ask the teacher about sex in front of students who could later make fun of you. and it happens and happening among students..
so don't mix up subjects
And who will deal with the administration and quality assurance to oversee that this teaching is carried out in a reasonably similar manner all over the country? And who will pay for this administration?
When I was 11 my school held daughter- mother evenings with a health professional and the boys had son and father evenings as well.
It took the pressure off the teachers of having to broach the topic in the first place. All information was given by a health professional regarding periods, girls development, what happens when boys reach puberty etc. Everyone attended.
Parents were relieved that they didn't have to do it, teachers were relieved that they didn't have to do it initially and the follow up lessons were a breeze because the initial broaching of the topic had been done and because the health professional did it there was no "silliness" or embarrassment (as the boys evenings and the girls evenings were held on different evenings...)
The information given was factual and accurate. Focusing on the science/biology/reproduction aspect- NOT KIND MAN a teacher with a dildo (good grief).
Maybe some parents FEAR what they don't know or make exaggerated statements like kind man. Educating children about the natural changes that their bodies go through and to understand how their reproductive systems work and more importantly crushing MYTHS like "you can't get pregnant if....", type of thing is important.
The last thing we need are longer waiting lists to see the doctor because some nitwit needs a private counseling session on "why am I bleeding from down there?", "why is there a hole there?", "what is supposed to go in there?", "why are my sheets wet after I have funny dreams?" as well as "where do babies come from?".
WRT asking a teacher about sex in front of other students and embarrassment... Clearly you haven't been privie to kids' conversations in the schoolyard here. Chances are they already have questions and/or curiosity about topics that they would never dare ask their parents or doctor. Besides, wouldn't you rather be embarrassed as a teen than as a full grown adult? Isn't there a requirement for being a teen to feel awkward and embarrassed when discussing mature topics? It's part of growing up. Get over it.
Also, usually the sex-ed courses are run in a very strict manner. It's not "how to make your lover scream in ecstasy", it's more along of the lines of an anatomy class explaining what each body part does, how different types of birth control work, STDs and how to prevent them etc. It's not as though they have take-home projects where they're told to try out 5 different positions and write a report.
Now I no longer wonder why it was so difficult to "score" in high school. You were brainwashed.
They should have shown you "2 girls, 1 guy" and "Saving Ryan's Privates". Over. and over. and over.
'Da bastids.
The Burger King at Medborgarplatsen, 5 o'clock. Be there. Don't wear underwear.
"I once got busy in a Burger King bathroom."
The funny part was that the bit where I nearly died of embarassment, the bit with dangly bits and how they fit together with non dangly bits, was of no interest to her. She went all red and embarassed at the drawing of a baby coming out. She sneaked the book to school to show her friends that picture. Her book was confiscated when one of the teachers found all the girls giggling over it and I got stern talking to about suitable reading materials for young girls. It's a good job I didn't buy the other book I looked at, it was a pop-up one.
Somehow I conveniently forgot about the mother !#*%& egg exercise. What a pain that was. Yes, I dropped mine.
Of course, we have taught them early on about the birds and the bees, and they know they can tell and ask us anything under the sun. However, many kids that age just don't want to discuss these issues with the parents since it can be very embarrassing and awkward for them so they prefer to ask a more independent adult, such as a teacher.
I remember myself being embarrasssed to death when my father tried to tell me about the birds and the bees. I just couldn't wait to get out of the room and didn't remember a thing what he was telling me about...
The ambitions of Liberals go beyond contemporary politics, they want to create a mixed-race future, where the divisions will be by class.
When I first moved here, I was agast at the thought of a total stranger teaching my kids something that I felt was very personal and private. During my time here **IN SWEDEN, I have come to understand that wow, maybe Sweden is correct on teaching the masses together young. Yes the girls wear make up and look like little hotties at 12. Yes, the boys will be boys, and well... the beat goes on. I look at the pregnancy rate of the kids in my sons school this year. ZERO. Last year, ZERO. The years before that, I am not sure of stats. In my homeland good old redneck Florida, I ran out of fingers to count how many girls came up pregnant.
I think information is power, and if some culture peoples don't like the topic of discussion, the kids are told before hand that there will be such discussions. The door to the free school here is that-a-way, and it swings both ways.
I read earlier a pissed off/or pissed on poster said something along the lines of "teaching Islam practices in school..." blah blah. Actually at my kids school they DO touch upon many different cultures to give the kids a better rounded world than the one that my generation grew up in.
This is the stuff that seperates us from the animals. Lets talk like adults here.
Inletwatcher
Now that's what I call answering a question without giving an answer. So... what precisely is you viewpoint on this issue?
Of course children of 9 and 10 should know about puberty/sex - many start puberty at this age
wooow. there's alot of comments up there.
Basically everyone is not going to agree but to disagree.
Some people should learn acceptance.
It's not that hard. seriously.
They can teach us and our young kids sex. (even sex is something you would learn yourself without a teacher) lol.
How much more in taxes would you be willing to pay to support this?
Finally, since this would border on being a sex-ed counselor for the child or teenager, this would probably require additional training (possibly in the child psychology field). How many of your family doctors do you think would *voluntarily* go through such training?
If you don't have teeth you would not really know the taste of foods. so always keep your teeth safe.
We pay for many other shits and why not the important thing in our life which is SEX? I would pay happily to learn more kidding unlike some others who keep the money for their funeral LOL
What you are, indeed, propagating for is a segregated society where only those who can pay will have access to this knowledge...
Way to go!
dont make this sex education now look like physic LOL.
How many of them do any kind of volunteer work in Sweden? Not many...
Or, are you now suggesting that any Tom, Dick and Harry can volunteer to teach the Sex Ed in the surgeries?
And rest assured, not everybody in Sweden can pay for an hour with a doctor to teach sex... You do realise what a doctor's hourly fee is before you start spouting off what would only be ignorant nonsense otherwise.
we should educated the mother's first with their family doctors
Do you really believe that the sex-ed courses covered in the schools can be reduced to one hour? Seriously?
As for doctors, they're far too busy to lecture a bunch of horny teenagers and their moms.
can you tell me how long it will take for sex-ed? and what parts can mothers teach to kids and what part can teacher teach? then i will come up with another solution lol
Why so short? Probably because he knew that the school already covered everything else
You see the clear example:He was shy to tell you.
it is not only your dad but many gets shy to even speak about it. and in schools if 100 speaks about it then they would make fun of each others. there will be no privacy.
Imagine if a girl ask about BIG Penis. her classmates would always make fun her that she seems to like big LOL excuse my words.
in order to keep your privacy safe go to your family doctor LOL
Dude, at that age everything is embarrassing. It's part of being an adolescent. It's better to let the kids learn how to deal with embarrassment at that age than avoid it entirely.
I still maintain that you know absolutely nothing about sex-ed courses and what information they cover.
But those who could still can afford to get more advise from Family doctor they should contact their GP. end of talk.
I need to study and i m kind of now addicted to this site. i m going to study or i would be fail hehe
Inlet
I doubt even if all the cultures became a true 'melting pot' we would see a decline in violence from social differences. However I see some merit in your statement, as the cultures that separate themselves off into their own communities within a greater community do tend to do badly economically, which can lead to an even higher amount of crime and disadvantaged children.
The school did not inform pupils about contraception until we were 17 which was also too late - one girl in my class never made it to the contraception talk as she was in hospital delivering her first baby....
I doubt if most family doctors have a clue how to teach sex and relationships - this is not covered on their training which is mostly medical - although some cane explain contraception
3 billion blacks and 400 million whites? Thats the biggest nonsense I've heard in a while. According to your nonsense, blacks would account for 45% of the world's population.
There are roughly 914 million blacks in the world (14% of World's total population) and roughly about 1 billion whites which is about 15% of the world's population.
Their are Africans everywhere in the world.
Your delusional, a propagandist, and a liar.
White people are some of the most
powerful magicians on the planet.
A major example of their work is
Hollywood.
White people are less than 1/10th of
the population of the planet. You
truly are a "minority"
It seems that every thread you participate in you feel the need to say something about it whether it's relevant or not to the discussion.
Please, come up with something more useful to say than what you've offered so far.
Also, mandatory tattoos, so that we can keep track of these "people" efficiently.
Who is with me?
I selflessly volunteer to head-up recruitment and medicals.
And what sort of numbers are we talking about? How many could you really handle?
It is just like you to take on such a selfless task. You are a true Patriot, and an inspiration to us all. This is the kind of devotion to public duty that we all should aspire to.
I should like to take delivery of my first fifty next Saturday evening. Hopefully by then the billets shall be ready; the bunks erected, glory holes cut and slings...slung.
I shall of course, by personal temperament be taking care of the male youth side of things and will leave the females to whomever considers themselves able to perform such tasks...
Anyhow, I thank you Commandant Gus for your kind compliments and will treasure them as I frequently come amongst my boy Corps.
Personally I think the swedish system of educating young people is the most advanced in the world, it really teaches you the most basic thing and that is: being a human and acknowledges it, regardless of your culture, religion or whatever that is.
I do respect and tolerate any religious or spiritual beliefs, but I strongly think that those aspects of life is best to keep at one's individual territory (i.e. home), public domain should be cleared from it.