• Sweden edition
 

'Sex education a must for Swedish learners'

Published: 15 Jun 2009 18:36 GMT+02:00
Updated: 15 Jun 2009 18:36 GMT+02:00

Writing in Dagens Nyheter, the author of the report, Anders Milton, says SFI classes "should include tuition on sexual and reproductive health, relationships, gender equality, values, and different ways of viewing sexuality."

Milton argues this will give immigrants "better knowledge about their own sexual and reproductive health, and also knowledge that is valuable for them in their role as parents".

Speaking to The Local after the report had been handed over to Minister for Health and Social Affairs Göran Hägglund, Milton said the SFI proposal was directed primarily at refugees.

"Most refugees in Sweden come from countries that are not democracies and are often quite authoritarian and have a conservative cultural outlook.

"They have never had information about sexual and reproductive health and I think this is something people need," he said.

Milton added that he believed people from democratic societies were very much in the minority in SFI classes.

"Honestly, how many people are we talking about? 200? 500 maybe? But the lion's share are refugees."

Milton said he thought it would be unnecessary for people from functioning democracies to sit through classes on sex education. He added however that finding a practical solution did not fall under his remit.

"Clearly people from the UK, US or Canada, for example, know these things already. But it can be sorted out on a case by case basis. It's something that can be worked out locally," he said.

Paul O'Mahony (paul.omahony@thelocal.se)

Your comments about this article

19:38 June 15, 2009 by High Priestess Kang - Slut
:sits on the sidelines waiting for t3h lulz:
19:42 June 15, 2009 by tsruikk
I think it is an excellent idea...
19:45 June 15, 2009 by Ladybadone
Pfft please.
19:53 June 15, 2009 by spy
Will it include practical sessions?
19:57 June 15, 2009 by Qassim
Sort of crying wolf :) Refugees know nothing about sex and their physiological make up? May be that is true according to this article but one can think of this proposal is kind of a new project in the making. The country is running out of jobs and there are many teachers who have nothing to do and they must be employed in this compulsory education – Sex Education.

Refugees need no Sex Education but jobs and better income revenues to escape from the Communal Monthly Aid. Guys focus! They may be refugees but they are not uneducated. Here in Sundsvall we have many Engineers, Computer System Engineers, Political Scientists, Journalists and Public Relations Practitioners, Economists, Pilots and even Medical Doctors and Microbiologists who are unemployed and living under the monthly allowances of the Commune. What do you think? Do these people need Sex Education or they need jobs that they can sustain their livelihood and their career as well.
20:44 June 15, 2009 by Qassim
Most of us know how to find a job or jobs. However, our trials must be followed by actions from the authority supporting us get the right jobs and at the same time take advantage of the knowledge we have. The problem here is not finding the job, but getting it is a huge task. I am an immigrant and I have been applying jobs since January 16, 2008. I have been receiving mails and emails, "Tack för att du visa interese" – Focus please! There is no need for stupid proposals, we have the best human resources here yet not government authority is willing to take advantage of it. In addition to that, SFI itself is sort of brainwashing. May be to me and to many immigrants of my type, two to three months is enough for Svesnka for Invandrare but a period of 2 years is an obvious derailing – yeah derailing us from our previous tracks of experiences and career pursuits.
20:53 June 15, 2009 by Rubbi
Qassim out of interest how is your swedish language skills?.

The thing with having them in SFI classes is what language would they be taught? SFI is for a basic understanding of Swedish and not all people attending SFI can speak English. It is unlikely that they could accomadate all the languages.
20:58 June 15, 2009 by Qassim
Rubbi, I have a good command in it now but now with the help of SFI but from my own trial and error thing.

I can see that many posts have been removed! Didn't they meet the criteria of Thelocal.se?
21:06 June 15, 2009 by Palestinian
When you want to study abroad in any country in this world it takes 6 months to 12 months as maximum to finish the level of language which is required for university.

In Sweden they treat the immigrant as a kid , they wish they can learn you again how to use WC ,if you listen to them and follow their sick rules you will never finsh language.

After 3 months at school I was pigging for them to let me enter the exam and the only answer you can hear ( Take it easy ).I moved from city to city to finsh that sfi.

There is a lot of things they can do for immigrants better than learning them sex which they are experts in as I think.

I can belive that half of immigrants in Sweden are bad and lazy , But when precentage is 95% there should be a problem in system!

Researches say that one of four immmigrants can finsh SFI in three years and it will be 9 years now!
21:13 June 15, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
There should be an admission test to see which level the "student" is supposed to be or if he/she hasn't in fact surpassed the teacher.
21:16 June 15, 2009 by Kaethar
I agree with this idea. Sex education is among the least of my worries in regards to the majority of immigrants in Sweden. It's crucial to teach them about cultural differences. I can see many people breaking the jante law in their CV's, for example.
21:31 June 15, 2009 by Rubbi
I think the sex education title is a little misleading. Most people think of this lesson like they had in school, or as kind man did with his local doctor.
21:36 June 15, 2009 by Greg in Canada
"Clearly people from the UK, US or Canada, for example, know these things already"

Thanks for giving us some credit. :-) LOL!! But I don't imagine Sweden receives very many Canadian refugees. :-)
21:44 June 15, 2009 by Sam1
I believe SFI is a waste of time, impotent way of teaching, Imagine your own language wether its Arabic,chinese, and imagine your teaching some one grammer and verbs, etc not in ten years they will learn, there needs to be interaction and thhe old childish way of teaching the rigid, boring class should stop, the swedish Goverment should not group all refugees or immigrants as one, not all are spoon fishes not all come from one land, Im in an Sfi class with 50 yrs Afghans Iraqis, thai, and Im 25yrs, there you find divions and groups and flatterers no friendship, but hate boredom, teacher is 67 yrs old, the place has no ppl last sixth months havent met any one or made friends, all my experience and talents and studies are being burried under the umbrella of those uncivilized yes they are, and yes some ppl look to milk the goverment, money greedy came from caves, and we pay their price bcuz we have black hair, any ways I hope good luck to all.
23:46 June 15, 2009 by Puffin
I don't think that sex education should be a part of SFI - I had to sit through some extremely poorly researched *child safety* information on SFI from a district nurse - the school thought that the refugees needed to learn this yet the group (including an air traffic controller) were merely insluted and patronised

There is no reason to be on SFI for years - it is a very basic level Swedish exam - compares to grade 6 or 7 in the Swedish school system - even once SFI is acheived if you want to go on to University there are other courses that have to be passed.

However having said this it is perfectly possible to get from beginner to University level in 1-2 years.
23:59 June 15, 2009 by insect
Clearly?? I think Anders should have researched on some of his facts before making such a statement. One good example, the polygamous group in the US? Anyone who read the story could easily tell they all needed education ranging from sex, marriage, their rights and everything else. That one sect (out of very many) that came into the limelight had more than 400 childred born there and you can only imagine the membership. So how clear is it that people in the US don't need this education?
00:55 June 16, 2009 by Kaethar
They weren't aware of their rights? As far as I can tell they simply chose to practise polygamy and since it's a social taboo they decided to isolate themselves from the mainstream.

It is extremely difficult to get a working permit in Sweden. Most non-EU non-refugee immigrants who come here are highly educated. The only other way in is through family ties and then they have a Swedish partner so the education isn't necessary...

The un-educated people who come to Sweden from outside the EU are refugees. Some refugees are educated, but they should still receive an introductory lesson to the Swedish way of life (including sex education Swedish-style).

Britain are our neighbours and just like with the rest of our neighbouring countries we share much of the same values. Southern or Eastern Europeans should be recquired to take the course as well though.
01:25 June 16, 2009 by eZee.se
Usually I walk out of my cave, club the first attractive female I find

drag her back into my cave by her hair and close the curtains..

then its wigga woom boom cha cha wigga woom boom cha cha wigga woom boom cha cha for a while, after which i call a cab and send her home.

A pretty simple procedure from start to finish, infact many a woman has told me tis like fallin off a log

what can classed do to improve this tried and true tested method?
02:01 June 16, 2009 by Emfa
No wonder why these SFI classes are near-useless: from their start they were built on pure imaginations and bigotry. Not many people finish their SFI because it becomes boring (repeating the same things, just because no refugee can learn "en/ett ord" in one year).

Yes I am a refugee: and according to some here, that alone makes me a good candidate for sex education. This is very strange because it's exactly based on the idea that refugees are the ones who rape Swedish women.

And Keater to add

Why do you insist on putting a separation between an educated refugee and other educated immigrants. And where are the numbers to support your claims that un-educated people who come to Sweden are refugees? Unless not-being a refugee makes one educated
02:05 June 16, 2009 by Covenflower
Wow, your Swedish people are about as mad as the Dutch. I've got my first sex education in Gothenburg 40 years ago when I was still a 17 year old virgin . I remember the blond Swedish teacher who told me to do a lot of practice. According to her I was a very good student.

Do you mind if I come back for a advance course? I would like to!!!

Have a nice day

John, The Netherlands
02:35 June 16, 2009 by Kaethar
Imagination and bigotry? Denial, much?

I did? How?

The un-educated people who come to Sweden from outside the EU are refugees.

Otherwise you need a work permit, which you're not getting if you're uneducated. To get a work permit from outside the EU the company sponsoring you must prove that there is no better person for the job within Sweden or within the EU.

Never said that. Most southern or eastern Europeans probably don't come to Sweden as refugees. Since the borders are open the uneducated people in the rural areas are also able to move to Sweden - and therefore might need to be educated.
02:39 June 16, 2009 by askin
I think only "sex education" is so primitive. there should be education of love, social life and sex.

In Sweden it is more, politics, sex and alcohol.

Askin Ozcan

Author of STOCKHOLM STORIES
03:33 June 16, 2009 by Omidn
All joking a side, I really don't know who is running this country but please instead of wasting people's tax money use the resources more efficiently like facilitating job for immigrant and integrate them into the society. Shame on you!!!!!!
04:46 June 16, 2009 by Marley420
SFI = Sex For Immigrants
05:45 June 16, 2009 by Jeffi
(Greg is from Eastern Canada, yes? Western here.)

SFI... as an immigrant... not a refugee... we once spent an entire morning "learning" what "sick" was and when you should not come to class "sick". Apparently coming to class diseased is bad. Coming to class with swine or bird flu is okay because that can go away on its own. Uh huh. And now it is contemplated that an SFI student must prove they do not need human sexuality lessons too? No way. I am so taking those classes if they become available. I can think of no better way to spend my considerable free time than sitting here and thinking up really solid questions. I wonder if the words are even in Lexin?
08:34 June 16, 2009 by Puffin
We'd all love to hear about these jobs that are available for non-Swedish speakers
08:46 June 16, 2009 by Marley420
Perhap there is a need for Lab Technicians to help unweb mothers with the finer points of sex education...
09:48 June 16, 2009 by 7
considering the majority of swedish mothers don't web to have babies and that pretty much none of the immigrants to sweden who have babies are either unwebbed or have babies without webbing, i'm not sure what you point is.
09:54 June 16, 2009 by Marley420
Just responding to Puffin...jobs for immigrants! Only in jest. oops I meant unwed*

I wish there was spell check! Damn.
10:42 June 16, 2009 by Nemesis
I have a better idea.

Ensure all immigrants in SFI learn about the Swedish culture and that women are not sex objects for them to abuse. There is middle eastern guys in my class, who consider me at the same level as something they stepped in, because I have a vagina.

Regarding sex education being for non europeans. I went to school in Northern Ireland. We literally never had sex education and a lot of schools still do not teach it there. You will find the same in a lot of church run schools.

Sex education is needed badly. It should be made mandatory at European level so that all recieve sex education.
10:58 June 16, 2009 by Jeffi
Oh wow, Nemesis. I feel like offering you a hug. My SFI classes have been primarily with Middle Eastern males as well, but never once have I been treated with less than respect and dignity by one of them. By teachers? Oh yes ;-) but never once by a fellow student. SFI is supposed to teach some culture, too. However, human sexuality? No. Make it another class. Provide social education for target countries that do not meet Swedish standards as currently in place. That is a solid option and non-discriminatory. But having some official up and say immigrants need sex education is just... well... either the translation was a bit slack or Swedish politicians need lessons in public speaking.
11:19 June 16, 2009 by Bender B Rodriquez
Close the doors = problem solved...
11:27 June 16, 2009 by Qassim
In my standard six class, I was taught about adolescence and gender. The objective of the course was to enable the students who are in their early puberty to make them aware of their new physiological change and how good they will use their new experience and stay safe from the infectious diseases and all sexual related diseases.

I am a Muslim and from Somalia, a country in East in Africa and at the time I took this class was 1987, I don't think so that man immigrant had this opportunity but at the same time I don't think so that this is so important too. Because most of these immigrants or refugees are educated, do you guys suppose to teach sex education to a physiology lecturer or a sociology lecturer or a medical doctor that are derailed from their career due to the joblessness situation in Sweden, particularly for foreigners.
13:08 June 16, 2009 by Tennin
Hey Nemesis, it was the same way when I was in SFI. The refugee men were all educated but they treated every women classmate very rudely as if we weren't equal to them.

My swede's mother knew a Sudanese woman who was educated and very nice. She moved to Sweden because she met someone. She saw for the first time a drawing of a what a normal woman's area looks like when she was at the OBGYN, and realized that something was strange. Right then and there she found out that not every woman in the world had female-circumcision done to them, and that it wasn't a common practice and illegal in Sweden.

I don't think sex education should be intigrated into SFI. But maybe they should have a class for women to better educate them on how female-circumcision isn't practiced here.
13:14 June 16, 2009 by sherkovic
get a life ppl...do something more creative then wasting time in arguements on a sissy news piece!!
15:40 June 16, 2009 by Kaethar
How are you supposed to get a job without knowing Swedish? How are you supposed to get a job without being integrated into the Swedish society? This isn't wasting tax payers money - this is a crucial part of integration. Sex education should not be a part of SFI though - they should make a new introductory course to Sweden in the immigrants native language.

Wtf?
18:33 June 16, 2009 by Puffin
Actually the most opressed group in my SFI class were the mail-order brides married to Swedes - OK there was this poor Albanian girl who was married to a psycopath as well
23:08 June 16, 2009 by Streja
Kaethar, southern Europeans? Are you saying that French and Spanish people who take SFI should be forced to take the sex ed classes but not Irish people? Are you for real?

Jag tror du behöver lite utbildning själv faktiskt. Nu kanske jag är elak. Du är säkert 19 år och vet inget om världen.

By the way, it's my birthday tomorrow.
23:56 June 16, 2009 by Kaethar
Sex ed? I'm talking about introduction to Sweden classes (including sex ed). People who come from different cultures to Sweden should be recquired to take these. This includes the French and Spanish, although moreso the Spanish (I don't consider France a southern European country - neither does the UN). This is especially important since southern and eastern Europe is quite religious whilst western and northern Europe is quite secular. Ireland are an anomoly in this case - but, then again, I didn't mention them (unless you're suggesting Britain = Ireland) People from countries such as the UK, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, etc are very similar to Sweden. They can join the lessons for their own good but it doesn't have to be a requirement. Yes, I am for real. Having lessons for everyone just for the sake of "having lessons for everyone" is a waste of resources.

Är jag plötsligt trångsynt nu, eller? Varför?

Grattis...
00:11 June 17, 2009 by Svartskalle
Can someone enlighten us (me) with information about those lessons? What are they going to offer to immigrants?
00:31 June 17, 2009 by Streja
Kaethar, Spanish people are not that religious. Perhaps my 93 year-old grandma but hey!

Spain introduced marriage for gay people years ago...Sweden are behind Spain!

I also think that all the Swedes who move to Spain should be forced to learn the language and the culture of Spain.

Belgium is like Sweden?

LOLOLOL

What is the religion in Belgium then? Spain?
03:25 June 17, 2009 by Kaethar
The Spanish institution is. And Spanish culture differs greatly from Swedish culture.

Behind? In some cultures homosexuality is seen as abnormal. Who are you to tell them what is wrong or right?

Sure. All immigrants should get introductory courses to the country they're moving to if the culture is very different.

Yes, countries with Germanic ancestry tend to have more in common. Common roots and cultural influence and all that.

Belgium, like most of western and northern Europe has church attendance of less than 5%.

But I think you're focusing too much on religion here too. Religion is only one aspect of culture. The customs and norms in society are completely different in southern and eastern europe when compared to western and northern Europe. You can't draw clear lines but there is a certain distinction, clear to anyone who's ever lived in these countries.
10:54 June 17, 2009 by 7
what's the "spanish institution"?

and in some cultures women are seen as second class citizens and shall not enjoy sex. who are you tell them what is right and wrong?

but pretty much every culture is very different (even if they have somewhat more in common--more problematic that they think everything is the same and disregard what is swedish thinking their germanic culture is close enough). so why not make it universal for all immigrants?

what cultures and norms in society are you referring to? i lived in eastern europe. i'm not seeing a huge difference, not any more so than the differences i see from when i lived in france.

you say spain is completely different but france isn't. what about andorra?
11:48 June 17, 2009 by Jamtjim
When I did Svenska Som Andra Språk, we were forced to sit through a four hour discussion on the topic that people speak differently in other countries. I mean as if a class full of immigrants did not know that particular gem already!

After listening to a Danish guy explaining that they count in a funny way in Denmark (cant remember exactly how) I got up made the point that although the danish language was no doubt a very interesting and noble language, I actually attended the course in order to improve my Swedish.

Anyway, the class room went dead. In the distance a lonely bell tolled and I swear I could hear tumbleweed blowing down the corridors. One of the teachers got up (yes it needed several teacher in order to convey this most stunning of revelations) and said thanked me for my input with a humourless dryness that only a middle aged swedish school tant can truly master. The witch then only gave me a G for the course dispite the fact that I was miles better and made more effort to learn than many people in my class who recieved higher grades (including one lovely girl who would turn an any essay on any subject into one about Allah... You know what I mean an; essay on I dunno, "Teddy Bears" becomes "Allah is Great", "My Favorite Food" becomes "Allah saves us all")

Smile and wave boys...

Another memorable lesson was when the very same pillar of education lectured us on how it was not acceptable to beat your wife. She neglected to say that it was wrong to beat your husband or that you shouldn't beat anyone else, so presumably this is perfectly ok.

I for one have never beaten anyone, let alone a woman. However I must admit that I was tempted to make a teacher sized exception in my otherwise perfect record of non-violence.
11:55 June 17, 2009 by Puffin
You *did* know that a breif introduction to other Nordic languages is a part of the Swedish grund and gymnasiet syllabus - right? Its a sub group of the language roots module - usually with the little *tree* picture

(attached image not shown)
12:47 June 17, 2009 by Jamtjim
Yeah. Now I've seen the pic I remember it. I guess that his was the excuse they used to lever in all the other languages as well. Some poor guy had to go up and speak at length about Swahili or some other african language for example not to mention the rather shy guy from Nepal.

It was the lowest common denominator teaching which really got to me. Without wishing to blow my own trumpet, but I like to think that I have a pretty decent education. In my time I have written theses and even had magzine articles published despite my awful spelling (thank heavens for Word) but yet here was I surrounded by many other highly educated people being taught how to write an essay by a woman who was, I suspect, less educated than I was. I mean for Pete's sake...

According to the teacher, first one must write a draft and then one must make exactly three revisions, not two or four, but exactly three.. etc.

There was a Russian woman in the class who had actually studied literature in university as well as published a number of novels in her homeland, but not even she was exempt from this type of japanese water torture masquarading under the banner of education.

I can vividly recall sitting there despirately wanting to scratch my eyes out and gaining full insight as to how so many swedes alledgedly kill themselves.

For me at least SAS Grund and 1 were a complete and utter wate of time and energy. My swedish improved very little and I hated every minute of it. All it taught me was how certain dagis type teachers could think themselves vastly superiour to all their pupils simply because thay could speak Swedish (relatively) well whereas their students could not. Had I been able to skip this nonsense, I could have rescued six months of my life and saved the government the cost of my rather dubious teaching!
16:04 June 17, 2009 by Puffin
It is a trickyness - SAS grund is a level taken by Swedish children aged 13-16 - so some of the teachers tend to come from a lower high school background and speak to you as though you are this age
19:10 June 17, 2009 by Kaethar
What I mean is that you may not think Spanish people are religious but facts tell us that they're a society structured around religion. I believe around half of the population attends church - and that's certainly a lot more than 5%.

Yes, who are you? Are you really arrogant enough to believe that your way is the only right way? You need to respect the laws of countries you visit, even if you disagree with them. It's up to the people of that culture to change it if they so wish.

Like I said, it comes on a scale. And it's not clear cut. Some countries are somewhere inbetween. Belgium is similar in some ways to Sweden but you'd have to decide whether they are "similar enough." Some choices are obvious - such as Germany and Britain. Why not make it universal? Lack of resources. Why pay for something which isn't needed? Ideally it would be for everyone so people who are exceptionally deviant are caught in the net - but this isn't a realistic goal.

France doesn't have Germanic roots so it's a bit of an odd example to use. Have you ever visited rural areas in Eastern Europe? It's the views on women's rights in society, views on homosexuals, abortions and racial and ethnic minorities as well as how to act in public and in formal and informal settings. It's everything that makes up a society. A black spaniard will come to Sweden and think everyone is a racist bastard because we're cold to strangers, whilst a black German would not find this unusual.

No I didn't. I say I don't consider France to be in southern Europe. It's not in Germanic Europe either though. I'm using cultural and not geographic definitions, if that confused you...
20:33 June 17, 2009 by Jay02
Monty Python's Meaning of Life would make an excellent choice for a sex education film. The immigrants can be taught that not every 'sperm' is sacred here and because Sweden is predominantly Lutheran, they have the absolute right to wear whatever they want on their John/Jane Thomas.
20:38 June 17, 2009 by 7
kaethar, you confuse me because you contradict yourself left and right. southern europeans should have sex ed but france isn't s. europe, but it's not germanic (well, not the alsace, which is germanic, yet german) and eastern europe is different, well, not the germanic parts like eastern germany or parts of the austrio-hungarian empire part, though while germanic still eastern european, and people can think differently unless of course they come to sweden and then they shouldn't have a right to think differently anymore and they certainly aren't allowed to try to get students to not wear sailor hats, that's for germanic (well, sort of germanic) people to decide. (you seem to have feg'd out of that discussion as i recall)

just so you know. i plan on making a mark and influencing swedish society and messing with your culture. i've already had quite an influence on people now celebrating halloween even on the alla helgons held. oh...and now people are using xmas stockings...muuuhhaaahahahahaa.
21:00 June 17, 2009 by soultraveler3
There should be a class for refugees from countries with different cultural backgrounds. It's important that refugees know their rights, the social norms and the laws.

As a person with a college education that is currently attending SFI, I have to say there needs to be some big changes. No offense meant, but it's crazy for me and others of a similar background (refugee or not), to be in the same class with people who need to be taught the very basics of education and western culture.

Add the fact that in my school, at least, about half of the male refugees flat out say that they're only there for the money, don't participate in class and talk so loudly that people trying to learn can't.
21:40 June 17, 2009 by Streja
France does have germanic roots. Alsace as 007 mentioned, and also Normandy.

First you say that religion is not important and then you mention that Spain has a high church attendance. Did you know that it was compulsory to attend church during the Franco era? These days I don't think the younger generation are that bothered to be honest.
22:02 June 17, 2009 by Kaethar
For the third time - it comes on a scale and there's no clear cut. I can't tell you exactly which people from what countries should take Swedish introduction classes, only that those from eastern Europe (Ukraine, Romania, etc) and southern Europe (Spain, Italy, Turkey, the Balkans, etc) should whilst those from Western (UK, Germany, Netherlands, etc) and Northern Europe (Finland, Norway, etc) shouldn't because it would be a waste of resources.

Of course - when you move to a new country you adapt. If you want to keep doing everything the same even though it contradicts Sweden's laws then you shouldn't be here, should you? You also shouldn't make demands to change the traditions of the country you're living in, even if you find sailor hats annoying.

So does Turkey. But the majority in France and Turkey are not culturally Germanic.

I've never said anything of the sort. Religion is definitely important but it's only ONE aspect of culture, which everyone seems to focus on for some reason. Spain's high church attendance is hardly the only reason why Spaniards should have to take Swedish Introduction classes. Vast cultural differences is the reason.
22:09 June 17, 2009 by Streja
You can't be racist like that. Living in the UK is very different from living in Sweden. Living in Spain is different from living in Sweden. Living in Germany is different from Sweden..

My mum did a great job adapting even if she didn't have lessons on cultural differences. She's Spanish and her being Spanish does not make her too different rendering it impossible for her to adapt. You have NO idea what you are talking about.
22:47 June 17, 2009 by 7
except you do. see the rest of your quote:

but you haven't really made any compelling argument to why your "qualifying" regions need more introduction than others beyond "they're more similar"...saying it repeatedly really isn't much of an argument. percentage who attend church is kind of silly too. an important part of contemporary swedish behavior is a focus on gender equality, yet you dismissed the fact that many cultures see women as second class citizens. austrian men (rather germanic and all) are not very female friendly. the men often second guess a woman's authority. switzerland only voted in universal suffrage in the 70s and they had to go against their own constitution to enact it (one canton had still voted against giving women the vote and it is supposed to be unanimous in the union before the constitution is amended)

and you never told us what people from andorra should do. spaniards needed an orientation but the french didn't (non-germanic and all)...what about central europe then? czech republic? baltic nations? russia, belarus and ukraine?

south africa then? germanic or african?

you're mixing up cultural norms/traditions with breaking the law. that's rather silly. of course people aren't supposed to break the law. but there's nothing wrong with keeping your own traditions and way of life (within the law of course)

sure you should. it's your new home, you have a right to influence everything.i demand a better sense of customer service...like in the US. i demand it and i instruct people on how to do it.
22:53 June 17, 2009 by Streja
And my mum put garlic in the meatballs and now they taste WAAAAAY better than any köttbullar you'll ever come across anywhere.



She also knows how to make traditional Swedish food and we like to mix it up a bit with Spanish or rather Canarian food. Apparently she's not allowed to alter those food traditions though.
23:20 June 17, 2009 by Sofia_stockholm
Tell you what would be a waste of resources; to keep track of, and sort those of various nationalities to determine who should, and who should not, get the benefit of this introduction when we already have an excellent channel to reach most of those who arrive into the country - SFI. Just imagine the cost of separate administration for this, not to mention that of finding classrooms and teachers... Much easier to make it part of SFI and let all of those who attend benefit.

As for some countries being more in need than others I'm not quite sure I agree. There are vast cultural differences even between cultures as similar as that of the UK and of Sweden, so I doubt a bit of introduction is going to harm anyone.
23:25 June 17, 2009 by Streja
Indeed Sofia, as you and I know having English men at home. You also lived in the UK as well like I did, so you know what it is to live in a different culture and then seeing it the other way around in Sweden. Kaethar seems to think that the UK is so similar.
23:33 June 17, 2009 by 7
actually i think the "sex ed for swedish learners" in general is a pretty useless idea. you can't sit a person down in a room which seems to be primarily focused on learning a new language and start going on about intimacy culture of sweden. immigrants from other places have to experience these things through their experiences living in a new place and can't be a lesson plan squeezed into a curriculum with a goal of getting immigrants functional in a new society.

a guy in my class had some insight into the equality value system of sweden by first hand experience of the distribution of money. his wife got her own money that went to her own account and she had the exclusive right to dispense it as she saw fit. the woman frivolously spent it on foolish items like soap, laundry detergent and food for the family.
23:36 June 17, 2009 by Streja
I agree.

They're adults after all.
23:51 June 17, 2009 by Puffin
You mean like the system the tried in South Africa

Apartheid
03:58 June 18, 2009 by Kaethar
Pointing out cultural differences is not racist.

Yeah? Those are the countries that are CLEARLY in southern and eastern Europe. Central European countries are borderline.

That is the reason why. Do you want me to go into how the Germanic cultures are similar? Don't you know?

Secularism is an important part of Swedish culture.

No. I accept cultural differences. Such behaviour is not accepted in Sweden but we have no right to impose our values on other countries. If I moved to a country with unequal gender laws I would accept them, of course.
03:58 June 18, 2009 by Kaethar
So? They know the norm. Teaching them about woman's rights in class won't help since they choose to knowingly deviate from the norm.

I never said France didn't need one. France is a borderline case, as is Andorra, Czech Republic, the Baltics, etc. People from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine would need the lessons.

African, of course. Culture varies too much from Sweden's.

I was replying to her comment about genital mutilations.

How is customer service a tradition? It's not an aspect of culture last time I checked. It is a show of arrogance to demand traditions in a country change to suit your needs.

I disagree. Introduction to Sweden should not be a part of SFI. And it's really not that difficult to figure out which country's are culturally compatible with Sweden. They just need to research a bit. And when in doubt, lessons. And it will always remain an option to take the course for your own good even if you come from a neighbouring country...
12:06 June 18, 2009 by Azadeh
Jätte fint idee. Jag är student och kommer från Iran. Vi lär inte oss om sex i skolan. Jag tror det är bra att bli säkert att invandrare och svenskarna har samma generellt vetenskap i samhället. Jag har lärt mig svenska på universitet. Kan jag komma bara till sex utbildning?
12:24 June 18, 2009 by Streja
Kaethar, branding certain people, saying that one type needs special education bu not another is racist. You're basing it all on cultural differences and branding some cultures. You fail to realise that you're talking in circles. It would be fun for me to see you talking to some young Spanish people.

South Africa has germanic culture. It has African culture as well.

What about Argentinians and Californians? Should they go through the program you suggest?
12:30 June 18, 2009 by Mzungu
English forum...overview:

Really nice idea. I am a student and come from Iran. We do not teach us about sex in school. I think it is good to be certain that immigrants and Swedes have the same general science in society. I have learned English at university. Can I come just to sex training?
12:33 June 18, 2009 by Streja
Swedish wasn't it though?
15:26 June 18, 2009 by Tutu
Sfi should be for teaching swedish language to adults and not children. Swedish sex culture dipraved and i will not recommend it to anyone. In the phrase UK swedish girl is synonymous to cheap sex. On the other hand people will believe what they want to believe no matter how many sex education they get. I dont know why govt keeping chasing shadows, what immigrants need is job and acceptance. When they are properly integrated into the system they might want to consider other things like sex education. I am looking forward to seeing whether this proposal would change anything.
17:03 June 18, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
Hey fake Mr. Know-it-all, get off your high horse!

Since when people need your permission and approval to decide what they need in their lives?
17:29 June 18, 2009 by Kaethar
This has to be the quote of the year. You really expect anyone to take you seriously after this?

Of course I'm basing it all on cultural differences. What else should I base it on? Skin-colour? Not all white Europeans share similar cultures.

Young rich people (who I'm likely to meet) are of course the demographic you'd mention. The poor lower-class is where you need to look though.

No, South Africa has Germanic roots - it's not a Germanic culture. South Africans act nothing like Swedes and Germans socially.

No, since only educated people from outside the EU qualify for work permits.
17:43 June 18, 2009 by Puffin
Might be a jood idea to keep working on the Swedish before worrying about sex education
17:48 June 18, 2009 by Puffin
Huh?

Surely SFI is only for teaching Swedish to adults?

It's a condition that you have to be over 16 - and in most kommuns an informal praxis that you have to be over 19.

I think also the rhetoric of Swedish sex culture is very different from the reality in most instances - many parts of Sweden are pretty conservative
17:51 June 18, 2009 by Puffin
Many people on SFI are in Sweden because of family ties
18:25 June 18, 2009 by Streja
The poor lower class are not educated? In Spain? 2009?

I used the young as an example as you said religious attendance in Spain is high. My point is that it's mostly the older generation who go to church and care about it.

The poor lower classes from Spain are coming here in hords...just you wait! Soon they'll be here, attending church and not understanding why there is no siesta at 2pm. They're also all rapists and will rape young Swedish blondes, not understanding anything about sex ed.

Education is free in Spain. They have sex education as well you know.

http://www.educacion.es/cide/jsp/plantilla...?id=pubmdsexual
23:25 June 18, 2009 by debs
i was once driving with a friend past Fittja and the explained to me that as a word fittja means "womens bits" what they didn't say was that it really means c**t

a week or 2 later my daughter had a problem peeing and i explained to the teacher in school that " she may need to use the toilet more often today as she has a little problem with her fittja "

laugh all you want ...... but you can imagine how the teacher and my daughter looked at me

i think the sfi are right to teach at least some body basics, we all need help to explain to doctors sometime and anyway it's probably a good way to relax in class to talk about sex innit ?

ps i can't go to sfi cos i'm at work weekdays and my kids don't want me to attend in the evening (also no babysitters ), but it would be good if they could do it on a saturday morning. I could go then.

other than that i just have to struggle on slowly with it , although i have found that after 3 beers my swedish gets much better
23:47 June 18, 2009 by frey
i can teach that. someone tell henry over at the migration board to let me in. this could be the beginning of the end of sexual repression, and it will happen in our age!
01:37 June 19, 2009 by Princess P
SFI should be about learning the language and how the system works. We need to learn how the health service works here, what services are available and how to access them. Everyone in my SFI class knows how to make/not make babies. What we don't know is how to get to see someone if there is a problem.

Use SFI to teach people where to access this sort of information and then leave it up to them to decide whether to pursue it or not. We are all adults after all.
09:43 June 19, 2009 by Renfeh Hguh
Sounds like the typical Swedish "We are superior" attitude that they take in matters like drivers licences and in certain professions (like health)
19:29 June 19, 2009 by Kaethar
Yes, and I already stated that they'd get all "education" they need from their partners.

Yep, plenty don't have higher (university) education. This is especially true for the children of non-Western immigrants. But many of them are Spanish too. The same is true in Sweden, but it's really a different problem.

It doesn't really matter. There's no point telling me who is religious in Spain. Like I said, I'm talking about the Spanish institution. It is the norm in Spain to be catholic and to have certain values. People may choose to deviate from the norm, but they are aware of the norm they are deviating from. Which is what the introduction classes are for - to teach the norms in Sweden that Spaniards are not aware of since the culture is too different.

I think you may have repressed anger-issues.

And?
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