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Malmö win for topless Swedish bathers

Malmö win for topless Swedish bathers

Published: 24 Jun 2009 14:11 GMT+02:00
Updated: 24 Jun 2009 14:11 GMT+02:00

The city's sports and recreation committee voted on Wednesday against a motion entitled: "Women with two-piece swimsuits ought to wear a top piece".

The committee eventually settled on the wording that "everybody should wear bathing suits" at Malmö pools but there is no requirement for women to cover their breasts.

The city considered a vote to be necessary after several visits by the feminist Bara Bröst (Just Breasts/Bare Breasts) network to Malmö's pools met with widely varying reactions.

The breast issue has proved divisive, with political wranglings leading to the question being struck off the agenda at an earlier meeting in April.

These political cleavages remained on view right up until Wednesday's meetings with disagreements on both the left and right sides.

But eventually the committee overcame its misgivings and the final decision was unanimous.

“I’m satisfied with the decision,” Bengt Forsberg, chair of the sports and recreation committee on recreation, told The Local.

“Everyone is required to have a swimsuit when visiting the city’s indoor pools and if it doesn’t cover the upper body, that’s OK too.”

According to Forsberg, some on the council had lobbied for wording which would have required women to keep their nipples covered, but Forsberg explained that attempting to enforce such a rule would have been too complicated.

"We don't define what bathing suits men should wear so it doesn't make much sense to do it for women. And besides, it's not unusual for men to have large breasts that resemble women's breasts," he said.

The Social Democrat politician feels the entire issue has been overblown.

“This is really not that big a problem,” he said.

“But women from the Bara Bröst network pushed the issue.

“It’s not really the way I would have wanted it, but you don’t always get what you want in life.”

The Bara Bröst network swept to prominence in late 2007 after two bare-breasted young women were called ashore by a lifeguard at a swimming pool in Uppsala. When they refused to cover up, they were asked to leave the premises.

Speaking to The Local at the time, Ragnhild Karlsson, 22, explained the womens' motives for swimming without bikini tops.

"It's a question of equality. I think it's a problem that women are sexualized in this way. If women are forced to wear a top, shouldn't men also have to?"

Outraged by what they regarded as discrimination, a group of women in southern Sweden made a show of solidarity by establishing the network, whose name translates as both "bare breasts" and "just breasts".

The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

14:43 June 24, 2009 by Luckystrike
"It's a question of equality. I think it's a problem that women are sexualized in this way. If women are forced to wear a top, shouldn't men also have to?"

It will be funny to see these feminists now " Sexualized " in a totally different way... Although my feminists are dog ugly anyway..
15:16 June 24, 2009 by DenMT
'Malmö Win For Female Topless Bathers'? The headline is way wrong. It should read 'Malmö Win For Teenage Male Nerds'.

DenMT
15:33 June 24, 2009 by Holecutter > The Howl From Hell
This will make swimming in public pools increasingly difficult with round cherry topped third parties bobbing up everywhere. The kids will have their fun with their exited shouts "there she blows" as another grotesque lump of lard hits the surface of the pools.
15:43 June 24, 2009 by crocadoodledoo
please dont be surprised to see the swimming memberships in the pools of malmo surge in the orders of tens..
16:14 June 24, 2009 by Xxmeson
more power to "Bara Bröst", i will put you guys in my prayers tonight. That the lord continues to give you strength and courage to fight the system and injustice. I hope this sweeps across the whole of europe and people "open their eyes" to this injustice. That reminds me i should pick a monthly card for my kommun ... this is going to be fun. Do they allow beer in those public pools? Maybe we should have a network for the boys "just beer" then it all fits nicely.
16:30 June 24, 2009 by bolababu
I think this is also a win situation for men! ..Oh I love this, I am definitely going to register ASAP.

Problem though is that people take this freedom and equality thing too far. Women don't need to bare their breasts before we acknowledge them as equals, ..wether we like it or not, the genders will always have their different traits so people should just accept this and be comfortable in their bodies.

I am still happy though that these ladies are going topless and I look forward to the day when they can actually walk the streets topless.
16:55 June 24, 2009 by apostolos1975
I am afraid that all of you hoping to see some titties will be disappointed. Women will continue wearing the bras for engineering reasons (support of the breasts). Only women with small breasts can go without support
17:54 June 24, 2009 by jack sprat
I am sure there will be countless pairs of hands more than willing to assist with the "engineering" job.
18:37 June 24, 2009 by Bisonex
This is just a bunch of silly, attention-seeking girls trying to make a point.

The vast majority of women have no intention of going topless at a public swimming pool any more than male receptionists are going to turn up for work in skirts and heels. There are women in Iran and Saudi Arabia denied basic rights and liberties and these juvenile girls are making an major issue about something that is of zero interest to 99% of the female population! Pathetic. The local authorities should tell them to get lost.

Bisonex
20:00 June 24, 2009 by kenny8076
i grew up in germany and it was always guarenteed to see women at the pool, young and old not wearing tops. it got no attention. i was in my early teens and would go to the pool with other kids my age. ya i might be caught stairing sometimes, but i never heard people being rude or shouting sexual things to them. thats the culture, a free culture. it could NEVER be that way in america, absolutly NEVER. just cant believe people get so wrapped up in a womens breasts. its not that serious. there are topless girl adds in swedish magazines like EllE, does that cause the same problems?
20:02 June 24, 2009 by Greg in Canada
Isn't there a huge Muslim population in Malmo? Guess the Muslim women will be really excited about this decision. :-)
21:55 June 24, 2009 by JonnyDee
To kenny8076

I grew up in Sweden till the 80's it was never a problem either and was never viewed as "sexual" (like in the States), until immigrants from prudish countries came in and complained and in true Swedish fashion the country rolled over and didnt want to risk offending anyone so now all these cases are being scrutinized when it was never about sex & no ones business.
22:04 June 24, 2009 by DAVID T
I'm sure this will very gruesome - can't wait to see them floppy hairy tities on those oh so sexy Vagitarian's.
01:06 June 25, 2009 by dtes
id rather see the flopping tits of a vegetarian than on some tv fed bigot with rotten corpse breath and a beer gut, yuk! i cant imagine any real human complaining, men who complain about womens rights to be just as naked as the men are less civilized than what i would consider a true man to be, and women who complain about womens rights are well just brainwashed slaves and proud of it. you folks who have a problem with our culture here should go back where you come from and partake in the byproduct of your lovely diseased culture, dont tell me how to live mine.
01:11 June 25, 2009 by Value Gen
Don't get me wrong

I reflect on thinking LOGIC "It's a question of equality. I think it's a problem that women are sexualized in this way. If women are forced to wear a top, shouldn't men also have to?"

Extending same logic women can/may demand someday "if man uses their penis, shouldn't women also do that too"- to uphold their equality???

What kind of equality we are talking here. Someone need to bring home the point that both men & women need to understand they should not & can not ask for equality in every sphere. Its not possible or feasible or desirable. Personal freedom ends when its affecting public. So long Malmö public does not have any prob, I do not see why all others need to be bothered.
02:01 June 25, 2009 by Roger O. Thornhill
I crossed paths on a Helsingborg beach with an elderly women and am scarred for life. My only salvation was a group of young ladies playing volleyball.
05:40 June 25, 2009 by LadyDrinkKing
Naked old women are like beggars in Indian cities. You have to learn how to not see them when they're all around you.
06:45 June 25, 2009 by Rap43
"...you learn how not to see them..."

"I crossed paths with an elderly women (sic) and am scarred for life..."

"Extending same logic women can/may demand someday "if man uses their penis, shouldn't women also do that too"- to uphold their equality???"

"...can't wait to see them floppy hairy tities on those oh so sexy Vagitarian's (sic). "

We are talking about the bodies of people. We are not talking about masturbation fantasies for the immature.

Didn't your mothers have breasts? Your sisters? Don't your wives and girlfriends? Do you walk around in a state of sexual excitement seeing their breasts, not all of which can be 'perfect' as defined by your fantasies...

The key word is people.

We are talking about Bara Bröst... more than 1/2 of the people of the world have more prominent breasts than the rest.... they are there for a number of reasons... your sexual pleasure is likely not on the list.

Get over it.
07:40 June 25, 2009 by chachacha
I am moving to malmö!!!
08:28 June 25, 2009 by jacks
Ladydrinkking would perhaps meet heaven in afghanistan or pakistan, no women without veils and lots of child beggars !
08:52 June 25, 2009 by Good Dog!
Now that women are allowed to go topless in public Malmö bathhouses – and the rest of the country is sure to follow - a new decision is certain to be necessary.

In a country where the term “våldtäkt” (rape) has the broadest definition of the populated world, it will be mandatory to include any man with the audacity to gaze at a woman’s bared breast for more than the briefest moment. Jail the bastards! It’s only right.
09:17 June 25, 2009 by Dick Swinger
Well it should make an interesting spectacle to see those long flabby breasts attempting and in some part succeeding to float away from the owner, leading to a vision of wonder akin to a nightmarish manetee sized oriental japanese fighting fish as the long apendages flap and flit through their own churning turbulant wake.

Well done to everyone involved
09:52 June 25, 2009 by Bölö
Malmo realestate prices will go high. Lots of people will be moving near swimming pool houses. Other places should have the same rule
10:09 June 25, 2009 by skane refugee
How many swimming pools are there in Malmö anyway?

I'm only aware of Ak-Va-Kul near Kronprinsen ... which was closed for quite a while until re-opening relatively recently I think

There are great swimming pools in the prosperous surrounding kommuns that have sucked out the Swedish middle classes from Malmö ...

... but the pools are usually tucked away behind high schools etc and away from public transport links to Malmö in an elaborate attempt to discourage the teeming Malmö masses ;o) ;o)
10:36 June 25, 2009 by NY Andreas
Since Im kind of liberal, I say take away the rules. But I do hope that women have sense enough to keep their bathsuits on, because we are different and bare breast should only occur elsewhere. . . but by all means, take away rules, let everyone do whatever he or she feels like.
10:51 June 25, 2009 by Miss Kitten
You've forgotten one or two tiny details. The penis is genitalia. Breasts and nipples aren't.

Can someone explain why female nipples are so very offensive and male nipples aren't?

Again, nipples are not genitalia.
11:07 June 25, 2009 by jack sprat
Interesting to compare the fuddy-duddy attitudes in the Western world with some of the tribes beyond the reach of our modern civilisations.

Titties of all shapes and sizes can be seen freely swinging about in all directions, yet nobody bats an eyelid.

However with genitalia it is usually a different ball-game so to speak and they are mostly covered up possibly for a variety of reasons from protection against thorns and bites,possibility of sunburn?,to having a small willy{only joking},or because its considered the correct thing to do?
11:23 June 25, 2009 by Nemesis
I am glad this decision was reached.

The human body is nothing to be ashamed of. I have had comments from muslim men about my breasts and to be blunt they know what they can go do with themselves.

The prudish nonsense about wearing clothes while bathing is exactly that, prudish nonsense. I personally swim a lot faster when naked anyway.

I know that American and muslim people will find excuses to be upset about this, but if they are, they should leave and not come back. We are in Europe, not Bagdad or Washington DC.

The human body is beautiful, natural and should be celebrated, not treated as some sort of socially constructed evil.
12:44 June 25, 2009 by Streja
I agree with whoever said that up until the 80's it was natural to have bare breasts when swimming, outdoors though. Indoors though I don't think so, but then most women used to wear swimsuits back then and not bikinis indoors.

I don't, however, think that this change is due to immigrants moving in, but rather all this interest in big fake breasts in the 90's. This sexualised breasts more in Sweden and we als saw the intrduction f the push up bra. Remember the ads frm HM with Anna-Nicole? It was all about sexy bras with push ups and big breasts in all the mags. I remember before like 89 when all you bought as a teenage girl was a "BH-topp" that didn't have any push up effect at all. Girls wore t-shirts without bras even. Now it's ike illegal to show any nipples through your clothes so you can even buy nipple covers. I think all this is actually not immigrants but rather Americanization, "fashion" and whatever else that decade brought.

Thank God for the reaction though.
12:56 June 25, 2009 by soljan
I wonder how different would be famous movie scene of Fontana di Trevi bath with Malmo born Anita Ekberg under these new rules.
13:01 June 25, 2009 by LadyDrinkKing
Actually Jacks, I'd favor a law making topless bathing OK for women aged 18-40 only, but I think there are one or two constitutional issues...

Besides, someone might force me to cover up MY trainwreck of a body.

So I learn to scope the hotties and tune out the wrinklies.
13:40 June 25, 2009 by Eye_Witness
Sweden has one of the world's highest life expectancies and one of the lowest birth............ and now wait for 'no birth at all'. But who cares..........
14:32 June 26, 2009 by DAVID T
We should all be aloud to go to work naked as well - there's nothing i dread more than seeing my cellulite dripping collegues naked.
14:36 June 26, 2009 by Streja
The lowest birth rate? I don't think so.

David, we're talking about swimming here, not going to work, but then you are so repressed. What are you? British?
14:37 June 26, 2009 by Streja
It's called allowed.
14:40 June 26, 2009 by 7
not if i can hear you
14:40 June 26, 2009 by DAVID T
Streja

I'm half Eskimo and half goat
15:09 June 26, 2009 by Streja
So one part of you is 'airy and the other one not?
15:24 June 26, 2009 by DAVID T
I can go clubbing for free
15:26 June 26, 2009 by Streja
Then you should call yourself an inuit.
15:30 June 26, 2009 by 7
for seal?
15:40 June 26, 2009 by Streja
He should know that they use rifles fr seal hunting. I've seen it on telly like.
15:41 June 26, 2009 by Streja
I suspect he's all goat, or as we say in Swedish, en kåtbock.
16:39 June 26, 2009 by Norum
so what if the muslim minority in Malmö doesn't like the fact that women are allowed to swim topless in public swimming pools? Noone tells them to go there and if they want to go to a public swimming pool, they have to get used to it.

And if they don't like it, go to whichever islamic nation you are from where it is illegal.
18:54 June 26, 2009 by 7
huh? where in left field does this come from?
18:58 June 26, 2009 by cblanquer
I am currently based in Barcelona, Spain.

The Townhall rules allows naked wandering at the seaside but also in the streets. Few people use their right, sometimes it makes funny situations, sometimes embarrassing.

At Barcelona's beach people dress as they like, there are two nudist areas.

Nobody will die for some exposed pieces of meat ! Come on, Sweden, take it easy, at the very end tits become only breasts !
20:49 June 26, 2009 by Mzungu
Shock is a killer! Imagine an 80 year old nudist knocking them with her knees!

*no offence intended to 80 year olds!*
23:19 June 26, 2009 by Kaethar
WTF?



This is a non-issue since strict muslims wouldn't attend a pool anyway (where members of the opposite sex can be found)...
05:34 June 27, 2009 by bloozshooz
Stieg Larsson was certainly right. For such a supposedly enlightened country there are plenty of men who really do seem to hate women. If you want to see bare breasts so badly (as long as they're not over 40) why not stay at home at your computers and dial up some porn?
06:28 June 27, 2009 by Umakant
We still can see aborigin ladies not covering their breasts. Breasts were never a sex symbol in many cultures. It became so fairly recently.

Transition back is some what complex though correct!
08:57 June 27, 2009 by Leicester
Good for them for winning the right, I just hope it didn't cost the taxpayers a freakin fortune.

I have been in Sweden on and off for a few years and I remember it being the norm for topless bathers and unheard for small children to wear swim clothes. I suspect people changed their minds for three reasons. Sexualisation of nudity, increase of other foreign nationales and fear of skin cancer.

However, I am sure we are about talking about handful of people that will choose to go topless. Let's be thankful we all live in a country that has such pressing issues like this in its mainline news
12:55 June 27, 2009 by viejose
What's the difference between being topless in a public beach or public pool anyway, to me is no difference and it should be optional anyway, not become USA in thi sence, Sweden is part of EU and more open minded than the rest of the world. If people from other nationalities or religion don't like it though or they are free to go back where they belong or adapt to the new country. Good job girls keep it up.
18:37 June 27, 2009 by Kind Man
the Pool owner would benefits after this coz many boys would come after this for swimming I also wonder that many boys/men/lesbians would be addicted to jerking off at the pools after this. the water also gets dirty eqqqq.
20:15 June 27, 2009 by acteon
They should be also given the right to go bottomless

Sorry, if I don't say it, I explode
20:27 June 27, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
Classic.
02:22 June 28, 2009 by villjobba
hats off to these women! we now have more a more unrestricted view of them boobz!:-)
13:46 June 28, 2009 by shpongle
Good. Maybe the should force shared showers for grownups as well.

It is sad that in the 21st century so many people can't see a naked people of the opposite sex without subconsciously thinking that they will get laid.
14:04 June 28, 2009 by Mzungu
Haha....What would you be thinking, with this one walking toward you with a smile on her face,without the bikini?

*smarties!*

[attachment=430:Natalie_...i_0308_7.jpg]
14:16 June 28, 2009 by shpongle
If it was a crowded beach I probably wouldn't think I would get laid by a stranger right there right then, no.
14:27 June 28, 2009 by Mzungu
^

Lets assume then,that it's an isolated empty stretch of palm lined white sandy beach!

*still smarties?* :nudge:
15:11 June 28, 2009 by shpongle
I fail to see the relevance in doing what ifs. Nudity by itself is not precursor to sex even if some people do their best to act and moralize like it is.
16:40 June 28, 2009 by Bisonex
Nudity is something which should occur in the home, or in very limited circumstances in public (like locker rooms) and never in public places like swimming pools, parks, or beaches, unless they are specially designated as "nudist", and out of sighty of decent people. I regard adult female toplessness in the same way.

The authorities should have told these silly little girls to go away and grow up. There are so many worthy things to campaign about in this world and to waste their own time, and the time of others, on such a ridiculous issue is beyond contempt.
19:23 June 28, 2009 by tcotta
Don't lump all Americans as nudity phobic. A survey in the US showed 25% of Americans have skinny dipped in mixed company.

And nudist resorts are very popular in the US. I know as I own the Terra Cotta Inn, Palm Springs, CA. http://sunnyfun.com We have the 2nd highest occupancy rate of ALL hotels in Palm Springs.

Fashions change. In the late 1800's women wore full dresses from their ankles, to their wrists, to their necks and had little house carts go into the ocean or lake so they could go "swimming."

In the early 1900's if a woman showed a bare ankle she was considered immoral.

By the 1920's ankles were OK, bare calves were immoral.

Just like the world did not come to an end when bare ankles were first shown in the 1900's, the world will not end with topless swimming.

People should grow up. Breasts are no more sexual now than ankles were at the turn of the century. Do these moralists want woman to dress like Muslim? We"re in the year 2009 not 1909.
19:46 June 28, 2009 by Mzungu
Do you do a special for TL'ers?
21:53 June 28, 2009 by Bisonex
I would wager that an even greater proportion have, at some time in their lives, been drunk, but that does not mean they generally find public drunkenness acceptable.

Fine. Let nudists have their places, but keep them isolated from places used by decent people.

Untrue. The exposure of ankles in public was considered taboo among the two higher socio-economic groups in western Europe, but they were never considered to be intimate in the way breasts are. Ankles did not feature in early pornography, but breasts did.

Besides, I live in 2009 and I am not used to seeing women walking around with their breasts exposed and I don't want to get used to it, thanks.

I don't mind nudists having their colonies, but I resent them interfering in the regulation of general public areas. If you want to get nude (or topless), stay on your own patch.

Bisonex
00:40 June 29, 2009 by 7
i was going to ask you why you think your view on this should dictate the way others view this (also a bit surprised by your position since i found your posts on the "pop" thread highly enlightening and open-minded) and then i found out the answer:

it's your own personal issue. that's ok, but we don't need your personal issue to motivate the rest of ours. argument pretty weak i'm afraid.
01:13 June 29, 2009 by Bisonex
I don't get your point. I am expressing my opinion, just as everyone else on here is doing. My view is just as valid as anyone else's.

My view is based upon what I, and my family, find offensive. Anything that anyone finds offensive is subjective - the very act of being offended is subjective, as it is culturally and emotionally based, and founded on personal values rather than cold logic. As a citizen and taxpayer in a democracy, I am not merely permitted to hold and express my views, I am encouraged to do so.

In terms of strict logic, wearing any swimwear is unnecessary, but we are socialised and acculturated beings, not machines, and nudity has the potential to offend and destroy the enjoyment of others. The purpose of swimming baths is to provide pleasure and they should be regulated to maximise the comfort of their patrons. If a rule is introduced which threatens to deprive me of the pleasure of using a public facility, I will speak out.

I strongly suspect these silly girls will be largely ignored and topless bathing in public pools is not something the vast majority of women will want to do, so their "victory" is largely academic.

Bisonex
01:56 June 29, 2009 by 7
well i certainly respect anyone's right to voice an opinion as a taxpaying member of a democracy, but you're playing that card a little emotionally when your message is more about your wanting a society to play by your set of codes (which in this follow up post you recognize are subjective and influenced by culture, emotions and personal values.)

i reacted because your "opinion" came across less as an opinion and more as a directive served up with indignation. (and i'm not suggesting you meant it that way)

but since you really didn't give anything more than "that's what i'm used to" as foundation to support your "opinion" i guess it's not really debate.

any thing along the lines of debate on this topic?
10:09 June 29, 2009 by Bisonex
I have made a cogent argument, but you are not comprehending it.

If I were the only person on the planet who found this objectionable, then you would have a point. My reaction would be aberrant, and it would be for me to deal with. But it's not just me who objects to this. Female breasts have long been regarded as intimate parts of their anatomy and deeply sexual, and we have a long-standing taboo of exposing such parts in public. This taboo is so ingrained into us that we are actually offended when people violate it.

Cultural taboos are part of our value system, and they permeate through our society and through every individual's very essense. Breaching these causes a strong, negative reaction, even though they do not cause actual physical harm, inconvenience or financial loss. If you doubt that, consider the consequences of walking the streets naked, or having sex in a busy part of a public park.

Of course times change and, with them, taboos are abandoned and new taboos arise. But that does not mean that all existing taboos, including those which are challenged by particular groups, are thereafter void. Allowing female toplessness is a plus for the tiny proportion of people who want to do it, but a big minus for the more substantial number who find it unacceptable. While I may not have a right to dictate policy based on my hatred of nudity, I am entitled to express my views and to point out that there are others who also find it objectionable in certain circumstances. Before making changes such as allowing topless women in public swimming pools, the relevant authorities should have consulted the public for their views, published the results of those consultations and have regard to the findings.

Bisonex
12:55 June 29, 2009 by Streja
Bisonex, you're missing the point. The point is that YOU should not dictate the livs of others and it seems to me that despite what you seem to think, Swedes in general don't find naked breasts to be offensive in public. There is a very liberal view here towards breastfeeding in public for instance. This is a country where going topless on a beach is very normal and where people sit in saunas naked with their friends. I don't want your ideas of decency to change that.
13:36 June 29, 2009 by 7
well, i'm not the sharpest bulb in the shed, so please do dumb it down for little ole me. your argument summarized until now rested on "i don't like it". now let's pore over your ensuing "argument"

dat you not alone iz not enuff to support your position (though you can still have it as a non-aberrant viewpoint.)

points of order

1. how long is long-standing ?--since puritanical times isn't really all that long ago in the history of humans.

2. do babies get off while suckling at the breast. and do they know they're messing with some future oedipal complexes? kind of sick to feed a child on a sex toy, kind of like a baby's bottle in the form of a penis eh? milk-ejaculating dildos are really sick if you ask me cuz that's kinda what a breast must be with that long-standing, deeply-sexual, taboo-ingrained, offensive mammary gland.

who are you modifying with your use of the collective 1st person? you aren't suggesting this applies to swedes and swedish culture and are naively presuming "your" values are "swedish" values (or is this a "i pay swedish tax so my imported values merge into the swedish "our/we" pronouns?)"

happens without any harm here in sweden, albeit rarely, always without financial loss.

nope, but thems peoples gotta get over it.

who in sweden find it objectionable? the 42 who signed the anti-boobie petittion(sic)?

HATRED ???

*SHOCK*

man you live in the wrong country (if you're here in sweden that is)

you go girlfriend!

damn straight. be sure to write your local representative and get that off your chest and into the hands of the elected policy makers (you know, the ones who were elected by the society to make these decisions, thus having the mandate.)
13:36 June 29, 2009 by 7
but he was cogent.
13:40 June 29, 2009 by Streja
Get it off your chesh hahahahaha!

He hates nudity. I'm shocked! How does he procreate? He doesn't?

Hurrah!
14:50 June 29, 2009 by Bisonex
Streja

I’m not “dictating” anything. I am expressing an opinion as to what the rules of the society I live in should be. Breastfeeding in public is a concession to what is otherwise antisocial behaviour, i.e. a woman exposing her breasts in public.

I have three children. I have some shocking news for you – you don’t need to be completely nude or flashing off your intimate parts to others to procreate.

007

Public places belong to all of us and should be regulated to maximize the comfort of as many people as possible. That’s why you are not allowed to have sex openly in public, or shout obscene language and so on. I’m afraid if you can’t get your head around that proposition, then I really can’t help you.

Long enough to be an established facet of our present culture. Your other question is puerile and not worthy of a response.

Really? What do you think would happen if a woman walked topless through a busy shopping mall? Do you think people would just ignore it? What if a teacher at a primary school showed her bare breasts to the children in her class (even if she had a good reason)? I have been to plenty of beaches in Sweden and Denmark and yes, you do see about 20% of women going topless. The fact is that, as the Danish paper Politiken recognised about 5-years ago, beach topless is becoming less common.

Nope, like everyone else, I have a say in which social changes I want and which ones I don’t want. I prefer the status quo when it comes to female toplessness.

42 is a small number, but how many members of this odious pressure group live in Malmo? I would wager far fewer than 42. A petition indicates the existence of a feeling among some people, but I reckon far more people find the idea objectionable than actually want to practise it, and only a minute proportion of those would even have been aware of this petition.

Oh, you can rest assured that I do that.

Bisonex
15:09 June 29, 2009 by 7
you have sex with your wife with your clothes on? that's aberrant if you ask me.

you can shout obscene language in public in sweden. people say , , ass all the time. helvete and djävul might raise some eyebrows. and i don't think public sex is criminalized either (anyone know?)

our swedish culture?

people would gawk and stare

not much if she had a good reason -though i'm hardpressed to find a good reason, but as long as it's deemed a good reason no one in "our" culture would have an issue with that.

uh huh.

great. then provided about 20% of the women go topless at the pool you should be right pleased.

not even me. what petittion (sic)?

so you admit that you would find a baby breast feeding as a sexual act. that's sick
15:32 June 29, 2009 by Bisonex
Whether you think it is aberrant or not, the fact is that it doesn't offend anyone. Women going topless does offend people.

According my my copy of The Growth of Scandinavian Law by Orfield and Boyer, any behaviour which "disturbs public order or occasions general offence" is contrary to law and not protected free speech as defined by your Constitution.

Most certainly. It has been my experience that Sweden is really a conservative country which wears a mask of great liberalism. Try walking naked through the centre of a major Swedish city and I'm pretty sure you'll find yourself at odds with the law.

Bisonex
17:59 June 29, 2009 by Alannah
This is just about the stupidest thing I have heard of. Why on earth should women have the right to swim topless in a public swimming pool? And then to say something even more stupider that if women should have to cover up, then men should do. Men and women are just different and have different types of bodies, end of story. And, as a young woman, I don't want to watch topless women flopping around in a public swimming pool. I'm ok with topless beaches or nudity in saunas ... but really in a public swimming pool where there are young and old people. That's just all screwed up.
21:49 June 29, 2009 by tcotta
Bisonex,

Rules in society change. Back in the 1950's in teh US black citizens could only ride in the back of buses in teh South in the US. Many Southerners found that it was offensive for them to have equal rights. US courts had to change that.

Muslims find it offensive if a woman bares any part of her skin except her eyes and hands. Should we go by their rules?

I find it funny that "decent people" do not go to nude beaches or nudist resorts.

Even here in the US, the most popular beach in Miami is the nude beach, Haulover Beach.

Get with the times.
22:10 June 29, 2009 by Bisonex
tcotta

Yes, but they should change to reflect the will of the people who have to comply with them and live with the results of them. We are entitled to be selective in which changes we adopt and which we reject.

I fail to see the relevance of that. Black people were generally treated not just as being different, but as inferior: that was unjust, and virtually every black person regarded it as unjust. The buses episode was a symptom of a far wider problem, and it was that which had to be addressed.

Women are not treated as "inferior" to men because they can not go topless any more than a male receptionist is treated as "inferior" because he can't wear a skirt and heels for work, whereas the female has the option to wear pants.

No, because Muslims comprise 1. mainly immigrants to the country who are expected to conform to the existing norms and culture of the country they have chosen to live in, and 2. they comprise only a tiny minority. Nevertheless, their sensibilities should certainly be considered before changing any rules, just as everyone else's should.

Nusists comprise less than 5% of the population of most western nations, and that percentage has not increased in recent years. In fact, it is declining in many countries:

http://www.balkantravellers.com/en/read/article/1273

19 out of every 20 people are not nudists: most people choose not to go nude or to be among nudes. So let's stay segregated - you can have your special beaches and leave the remainder for the rest of us. I promise to stay away from your beaches completely, and i would ask you to return the favour - unless you are wearing swimwear.

Bisonex
22:31 June 30, 2009 by DeafJeff
IDK how the heck we go from breasts to black people on buses, but that's skewed, man! Especially, since it's nonissue. If one really wants to exemplify mistreatment of Blacks let's talk about Dafur. But, alas, this is a boobie article. I would suggest we keep it simple. If one is able and has the desire, take off your top. One who would like to look, and is allowed, jolly well should! Life is short, folks. We all need to mellow out a bit. You won't care when you're waiting for the worms. Even you, Bisonex. I am picking on you because I have seen your posts on other articles, and I think you need to lighten up.
23:02 June 30, 2009 by 7
if you really want to exemplify anything, be sure you have an example first.
09:12 September 7, 2009 by Jcpersson
So what's really the difference between scantily clad women out on town with their silicon boobs almost popping out of their tight tops and those topless swimmers??? Give me a break!
18:12 July 23, 2010 by bcterry
Let me see now, topless beauties, or burkas,.......... damn, it's a tough call.
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