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Sweden's first lesbian bishop consecrated in Uppsala

Sweden's first lesbian bishop consecrated in Uppsala

Published: 09 Nov 2009 07:43 GMT+01:00
Updated: 09 Nov 2009 07:43 GMT+01:00

Eva Brunne, 55, was consecrated as the Bishop of Stockholm in a ceremony at Uppsala cathedral, just north of the Swedish capital, the Church of Sweden said in a statement.

Along with Brunne, another female pastor, Tuulikki Koivunen Bylund, was ordained to take over as Bishop of Härnösand in northern Sweden.

The ceremony marked the first time in the history of the Swedish church that two women had been consecrated as bishops at the same time.

Brunne is in a civil union partnership with another woman. Together they are the guardians of a three-year-old child.

The Church of Sweden, which was the state church until 2000, had backed the parliament's adoption of the gay marriage law, which took effect on May 1. But its synod only approved church weddings on October 22.

Sweden, already a pioneer in giving same-sex couples the right to adopt children, becomes one of the first countries in the world to allow gays to marry in a major Church.

Around three-quarters of Swedes are members of the Lutheran Church.

AFP/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

11:49 November 9, 2009 by Dr. Dillner
It is difficult to find anything in the Bible to support homosexual bishops. If anyone has references and/or citations, please show me.
12:15 November 9, 2009 by Nemesis
I wish Eva well.

I hope her ministry is sucessful.
12:23 November 9, 2009 by Durai
I am really surprised to see this.

Religion is to make the people to live in a more structured manner.But it seems like it was changed according to the people desire i.e no structure and can leave in any way what they want.
12:37 November 9, 2009 by calebian22
Martin Luther is rolling over....
12:57 November 9, 2009 by Random Guy
This church is following it's god:

http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/4-4.htm

An alcoholic can CHOOSE to be a drunk or not ( a hard choice but none the less a choice)!

A gay person can CHOOSE to live that lifestyle or not. ( like an alcoholic, if he or she wants to make the God of the Bible happy - he or she will choose not to live a gay life).

This church has chosen to go against the Bible's teachings. I would RUN for the doors!
13:02 November 9, 2009 by foxpur
@Durai, Aside from personal views, there is nothing anywhere that says Homosexual and Heterosexual lead different structured lives. Anywhere I have seen both lifestyles are equally messed up. :)

@calebian22, perhaps, but Martin Luther King is smiling.

@Dr. Dillner, Being a Priest myself I can't think of anything in the Bible that covers the sexual preference of Bishops. To be historically frank, there is a long history of the clergy hierarchy being Homosexual and Hypocritical. (shrug)
13:58 November 9, 2009 by summer
Frankly speaking, "things have fallen apart"
14:46 November 9, 2009 by citizentimes
Dr. They will change the bible , like they keep editing for petty gains for last 2000 years.

...
15:52 November 9, 2009 by eZee.se
"Church of Sweden" - another breakaway isnt it?

Another one who thought the rules were too hard and strongly implemented so... lets just start our own church.

Oh well.
17:11 November 9, 2009 by foxpur
@ Random Guy, Nothing in Corinthians says anything about homosexuality in the clergy. God is open to ALL who chooses to hold him in their hearts.

"Yet to all who receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God" John 1:12

Doesn't say 'except (insert unwanted here)', it is for all.
17:22 November 9, 2009 by Per Fritz
God created man and woman
17:51 November 9, 2009 by billyb362
Let's don't over-analyze this - The church of Sweden has created their own moral code now.

God has left the building...
18:41 November 9, 2009 by joe90
Love one another as i have Loved you.

the first command is to love one another,

it is good for a man to be without a wife but if that desire is within you be joined together.

i think we will have 2 or maybe 3 distinct churches,

1.one which follows the bible as it was written without editing except translation from the hebrew and greek.without deviation and modern interpretation.

2.one which follows the bible as it is written acording to the interpretation of the leaders of the (church)in time it is being used.

3.One which follow a bible edited using the judgements of its leaders what too include and exclude.

we are going through a time just like where the bible was being put together and soon maybe there will be a split or splits with different portions of those ``Christians ´´ being being called by their name of interpretation of the bible

it could be a interesting time

lost sheep no problem the herd will die out
19:37 November 9, 2009 by Chief Wiggam
Jesus: "a new commandment that I give unto you that you love one another."

Jesus: "He who is without sin among you let him cast the first stone."

"Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy."

Jesus: "Blessed are the pure and heart for they see God."

Jesus: "Blessed are those who have been persecuted for righteousness sake for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven."

Jesus is my savior not you, and Jesus would be ashamed of you for judging me... For judging all of us that you judge! For that I pray for YOUR soul(s).

You won't change your ways neither can I because you can't pray away the gay - see you hell!
21:08 November 9, 2009 by Social Hypocrisy
Whatever god you worship, its generally accepten that god is omnipresent.

If god is omnipresent, god created variation. If god created variation, god created homosexuality.

If god created homosexuality it must be part of gods ultimate plan.

Why shouldnt the church accept gods ultimate plan.
21:41 November 9, 2009 by calebian22
@foxpur

Martin Luther King was an ordained Baptist minister. I doubt he would smile much over this. Martin Luthor marched for race equality not sexual preference.
21:45 November 9, 2009 by thevasin
Ashamed !!
21:55 November 9, 2009 by calebian22
Sorry, Luther not Luthor. Too much Smallville.
22:54 November 9, 2009 by Nemesis
The homophobia of the commentors is not religeous.

The comments are hatred of homosexual people for the sake of hating them.

It is blind hatred.

She is a lesbian, so what. Who cares. It is entirely her personal private business.

I wish her well.
23:22 November 9, 2009 by dizzymoe33
I wish her well, I think it is fantastic.
00:13 November 10, 2009 by Gwrhyr
Iceland with the first openly lesbian head of state, Sweden with the first openly lesbian bishop...

A song comes to mind "Ja, jag vil leva jag vil dö i Norden".

Chief Wiggam, very astute words, my grandma would be proud. When she found out I was gay she told me she knew God had made me that way.

All these people using the Bible to judge others and exclude others and hate others are being deceived by Satan, if Satan does exist.
01:57 November 10, 2009 by I Love it when ...
thats pretty cool, times a changin
03:08 November 10, 2009 by Davey-jo
It amazes me that women can fall for this religion thing. I thought it was just men wanting to dress up. Still if it turns them on I can see no harm so long as they don't scare the horses!
06:09 November 10, 2009 by Guarauno
The bible says that all sins are equal to God,none is worst than any other so why many people just focus on homosexuals?,if all sins are equal then many bishop men should not be allowed to do as surely many of them can be liars,thieves,etc,etc,etc,so what a homo person should do if wanting to become a bishop?,hide it as lots of catholic pastors do?
07:04 November 10, 2009 by krow
I am mad. why at Uppsala? They should have done it in Stockholm. A serious curse is laid on our beloved city. God help.
08:43 November 10, 2009 by Nina_
Come on, let the gay ppl be happy!
13:29 November 10, 2009 by Princess P
Gwrhyr, Sweden is not the first with an openly gay bishop. My home town (UK) appointed an openly gay bishop back in 2003. We had the same hysterical shrieking and fist shaking.

As I see it people can be in one of two camps. Those who don't believe in God, and therefore should butt out as they are clearly using the issue to promote their homophobic views, and those who do believe in God, who should also butt out as they have no authority to question who God decides to lead into leadership within His church.
16:29 November 10, 2009 by Moshe
"Sweden's first lesbian bishop consecrated in Uppsala" What a shame.

Is the church of Sweden a Christian based church or is it Satanic? Satanism teaches it's followers just the opposite of Christ's teachings; therefore, Christians who believe they are followers of Yeshua but attend a church where a lesbian is a bishop and leader of the flock are sinning against the Holy Spirit of G-d. Christians, just as Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah, need to turn away from church of Sweden because it is place of Spiritual death.
18:10 November 10, 2009 by Nemesis
@ iking warrior,

Wrong, I am capitalist bitch.

It is nothing to do with being PC. It is to do with people attacking a harmless minority, just for them existing.
20:17 November 10, 2009 by Nemesis
@ Viking Warrior

Thank you for proving my point.
20:27 November 10, 2009 by TvAmazon
What a shameful perversion of Christianty. If the female pastor is truly a Christian then she knows that the bible says this is an abomination. She cannot be a true believing Christian and still think her actions are compatable.

This only can lead me to believe that her desire to succeed it stonger than any belief she once had in the bible. This smacks of the same type of PC the puts Iran in charge of the UN Human Rights Council.

If she just wanted to succeed at being a minster of faith then why didn't she choose a faith that was compatable with her beliefs instead of trying to destroy the beliefs and faith of others.
20:46 November 10, 2009 by Guarauno
How easy is to talk from the other side.
21:18 November 10, 2009 by Nemesis
@ Viking Warrior

Wrong as usual. I am Ulster-Scots and english is my native language.

Hatred is the only language you speak. What middle eastern country are you from?

Since you hate Swedish society, I will assist you in finding a society more suited to your mindset.

You can sell your belongings on blocket.se

You can sell your apartment or house on hemnet.se

You can get a flight to leave Sweden at flysas.com and move to a country where they have a similar mindset to you, such as Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, USA, Somalia, Kuwait or similar.

If you don't like Sweden and its liberal society, leave.
21:54 November 10, 2009 by Gwrhyr
Viking Warrior, how dare you claim that people who support equal rights for gay people are hate-filled.

Since WHEN is it PC to support gay rights? If that were so, we'd already have had equal rights for a long time now. You know you're the hateful one because you're the one who can't go through life without wishing for other groups of people to be discriminated against. Gay people having equal rights doesn't affect you if you're not gay, point blank. So you don't like seeing gay people, so what. Get over it. These issues aren't about political correctness. They're about human rights and dignity. Your assumption that people fighting for human rights are commies is idiotic considering how most communist nations have horrible human rights records. You're stuck in some fantasy-world where politics is black and white, dominated by the wild, commie, human rights-obsessed left versus the traditional, exclusionary, conservative right. Well, that political spectrum doesn't exist universally, and especially not in Sweden where the left and center are paternalistic and it's the fringe economic righties who are the few who want to legalize cannabis and prostitution in this country. You should realize how ridiculous it is to view everything so simply. Not all gay supporters are economically left. They are left, right and center. Your authoritarian wish for the progress of the standing of gays in society is very communist, using your definition of commie as a slur for people who hate everyone who disagrees with them and wishes society was structured in one way only. Your arguments here simply hold no water. Your paranoid world-view is just too simplistic.

Go ahead, keep kicking people while they're down, keep trying to control society so that it turns into your own PC vision. It's not going to change anything because you aren't really affected by gay people having equal rights. The sky isn't falling down because there are lesbian bishops. The sky didn't fall down when the first female priests were ordained.

Could you please have a look at why you're so annoyed at gay rights? This isn't about any other political issue. This isn't about the political spectrum. I'm really curious about this. Why does it annoy you so much? How would you feel if you just wanted equal rights in society? And if it's just about keeping gays out of Christianity, how would you feel if you believed that the Church was promoting a view that was harmful and against the Bible and you worked to change the churches view? Would you have been pissed off at the PC change in the church's stance about slavery when that changed? What really is your thinking behind this? Why does something that doesn't affect you threaten you so much?
22:07 November 10, 2009 by Nemesis
@ Gwrhyr,

Well put.

The commentators here are using the book called bible as shield for the hatred of gays.

The question is, why do they have so much hate, for no reason?

Where does the hatred really come from that is festering inside them?
23:08 November 10, 2009 by Newyork-Växjö
Bible quotes, Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."
02:03 November 11, 2009 by Gwrhyr
Wow, Viking Warrior, you assume I trawl this site looking for dissent? Have you read any of my posts where I dissent from the PC Swedish view, for instance concerning the legalization of cannabis?

Your comment that I fail to use content in my argument with you holds no water. My opening statement was the part where I expressed my audacity at your beliefs. The rest was why, which is content. You're the one who ignores my content and keeps saying that my posts are nonsensical. Your continued rambling on about political correctness is irrelevant and has nothing to do with me, and your assumption that Nemesis and Nevon and me are the same person is funny at best.

You want content? Since you focussed on the Bible, how about some content from the Bible:

Do you get haircuts?

"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27).

Do you wear modern clothing?

"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)

Eat pork?

"...and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)"

Eat shellfish?

"Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:12)

Do you own slaves?

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)

"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel. " (1 Peter 2:18)

The message of Jesus Christ is love. The only thing that makes a person Christian is that they invite Jesus Christ into their heart as their savior and ask forgiveness for their sins.

"Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:37-40)

Viking Warrior, you conveniently ignored my question about your stance on slavery and if you would have defended it when the Church decided to go against Biblical verse in opposing it. Do you unrepentantly break any of those verses mentioned in this post and still consider yourself a "true" Christian?

Do you have any actual arguments other than "Everyone who opposes me has bad English and is the probably the same person and hates everyone who dissents from their PC view!"? I am curious if you have any background in Bible study, especially regarding the history and development of theology and the culture and context of the Bible times?
02:54 November 11, 2009 by JoeSwede
What to comment...

Let's start with John 3:16.

For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son so that others might have life.
04:14 November 11, 2009 by Gwrhyr
Wow... look who's making no sense now. At least I don't ignore the points you make and then say you have a fat head. I'd still like to know your answer to the tough questions I asked, but as you continue to ignore them I'm beginning to think you're simply a complete troll who isn't here debating what they truly believe but just trying to stir up the pot. My mistake for trying to engage your points and elicit some actual on-topic responses.

May you have a good day.
08:15 November 11, 2009 by Rick Methven
I am amazed that in secular Sweden that there are so many bible punchers posting here. They are however very selective in the quotes that they choose.

Lets put some perspective into the debate.

The Bible is NOT the word of God, it is a collection of often divergent writing written by MEN with an axe to grind, long after the event.

These MEN found that the way to get the masses to do what they advocated, was to cloak their message in mystery as the 'word of God'. Over the millenia this has worked, resulting in many acts of genocide carried out, because it is 'Gods Will'.

It is not God who is against Homosexuals, it is MEN.

Personally, I, can not see why any Gay or Lesbian would want to have anything to do with a church that is so anti them. It is clear however that many Gay and lesbian people are drawn spiritually to the church and want to be a part of it. I am sure that the Lesbian bishop hopes that by becoming part of the hierarchy, she can contribute something. Who has the right to deny her that chance?

By the way Viking Warrior, I am a straight male
08:57 November 11, 2009 by izbz
Viking Warrior, Take your boat and cruise elsewhere, nemesis, and Gwrhyr and many like me are cruising along with gay rights.

God bless Sweden's first lesbian bishop!
12:50 November 11, 2009 by rdn
Calebian22 -

Martin Luther and Martin Luther King are two very different people. Martin Luther was a 16th century Augustinian monk whose followers became the "Lutherans." But regardless, both Martins would be spinning in their graves right now.
17:09 November 11, 2009 by A Viking Warrior
@ Gwrhyr

What are you waffling on about now?!

You haven't asked any questions, let alone 'tough' ones! You have merely pursued another boring and irrelevant rant when the issue is clear: Homosexuality and Christianity are incompatible according to its core text and the word of God.

To say otherwise is a lie and just another PC voyage of fantasy.

I personally have passed no judgment on homosexuals: Christianity itself has.

Why can't you get that through your head, you self-appointed PC Commissar?

By the way, just for variety, and to make it look like you have more support, you really should try the next post as one of your alter-egos, 'nemesis' or 'nevon' 'Rick Methven' or perhaps even new one.

@ Rick Methven

Ah yes, yet another of the hate-filled PC Commissars here. Or maybe just the same one.

You lost it at the moment you claim the bible is not the word of God. To Christians it is the word of God. That is the core of their belief. A belief that you are mocking.

I'd love to see you stand up in Saudi Arabia and shout that the Koran is not the word of God! You just wouldn't do it.

But of course the inconvenient truth is that the bible, that is the word of the Christian God, thoroughly reviles homosexuality and so in true Commie PC Commissar style inventions, lies and smears have to be rolled out on top of the obligatory hate labels: In this case that the bible is of irrelevance in determining Christian matters!!

How typically and deliciously warped!!

@ izbz

Well done. Get it all out.

And then know that this is not a Christian minister in reality but an artificial political creation that goes against core Christain values and the word of God.

In other words, an abomination.
17:57 November 11, 2009 by Fr Laurence
Congratulations and every blessing upon both new bishops ministries. And of course a special blessing for Bishop Brunne and her partner and child. as they face the special challenges of prejudice and the special grace of remaining faithful in the teeth of it.

This is still a time of joy and a time for joy !

How I wish I could ahve been present !
19:00 November 11, 2009 by Rick Methven
Isn't is funny that those so filled with hate, try always to accuse those that they hate of being 'hate-filled PC Commissars'

Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do.

Or maybe the best is to say:

'take the mote out of thy own eye before the splinter from thy neighbours'

Viking warrior, Did you know that I studied comparative religion?

I believe in a loving God who has compassion not the blind fear and hate that you and your ilk display
20:00 November 11, 2009 by izbz
ooooooh no! Rick Methven, here it goes again! Not all churches and Christian are anti gay and lesbian. Only racist are anti anything and everything.....black,gay, asians and what not.

They think they are the superior being on earth like Mr HITLER. If church is really anti gay, this article would never be here for you to comment.
20:32 November 11, 2009 by A Viking Warrior
@ Rick Methven / nemesis / nevon et al

There you go again with your typical Commie PC Commissar lying tactics; I have clearly said "I personally have passed no judgment on homosexuals: Christianity itself has" and yet you have to, that's right have to, attempt to smear that fact as hatred.

You have to use these tactics of perceived intimidation and fear because you full know that the actual premise doesn't stand up to one minutes worth of logic and inspection.

It is your standard tactic for all dissent.

Don't agree with any sex education let alone homosexual education for very young children? You are full of hate.

Don't agree with unnecessary immigration? Worried about the impact of immigration? Don't buy into the multi-cult agenda? You are full of hate.

Think that criminals should be punished appropriately for their crimes and also society should be given a break? You are full of hate.

Quote the actual bible and the word of God to demonstrate that homosexual ministers are an abomination of Christianity? You are full of hate.

Disagree, even slightly with even facet of the PC agenda? You are full of hate.

That's all you have, these are the only weapons in your arsenal: Forcing your anger and hatred of dissenters into hate abuse, hate labels and hate smears.

You say 'studied comparative religion' - maybe you did, maybe you didn't, lying is second nature to the PC Commissars. But if you really did then you should know exactly what the bible and the word of God has to say about homosexuality. But it doesn't suit you at all, so you create distractions from it.

Like I said, you wouldn't dream of (or have the bravery to) stand in Saudi Arabia (or even Rosengård) and shout that the Koran is not the word of God but you have no compunction whatsoever in insulting Christians with the equivalent because Christianity is a target of the PC Commissars; its teaching are anathema to the PC agenda, as is it competition for religious loyalty and zeal.

You then go on to describe a God that you have made up and that you say you believe in but do not say whether it is supposed to be the Christian God; if it is then you really do need to get the bible and read it thoroughly.

You are just another mindless empty sheeple self-appointed PC Commissar who thinks he can scream his hate and spew his abuse at anyone who dares to dissent.

@ izbz

You are a parody, surely?

With the extreme camp 'here it goes again' to the absurd ignorance of the politicisation of the Churches globally as a target of the PC agenda through to the absolutely bizarre and gratuitous invocation of Hitler.

What a tool.
20:33 November 11, 2009 by Kooritze
Leftist nonsense!.....another step towards a further breakdown of society.

Family values ar e gone and we end up with a varannan vecka with children being normal.....while parents pursue a new relationship with a new partner......Swedish normality!

Then 50% of the population live alone (60% in Stockholm). Lots of sad 'dyster' people wondering what it is all about.

Now gay bishops!........and we are supposed to think it is all normal. If you have lived outside the Swedish bubble, you will know it is NOT
22:24 November 11, 2009 by Rick Methven
Viking Warrior,

Thanks for your full of hate post

QED
22:27 November 11, 2009 by Fr Laurence
Every Blessing

from beyond the 'Swedish bubble'

IS it a bubble ? why ?
22:29 November 11, 2009 by A Viking Warrior
@ Rick Methven

That's right Methane, its straight back to the already exposed tactic, the only weapon you have of hateful projection.

I have taken your agenda, your tactics and you personally apart and you know it and you have no answer for it, hence the reversion straight back to type.

You hate filled wannbe thought-police fascist.
23:40 November 11, 2009 by Uncle
Viking warrior - could not define it any better. The tactics of liberal philanthropists here are to declare everything that does not match their views as medieval burning of witches and they define a disagreement with them as "nonacceptance of human progress", completely rejecting the fact that they are not ready to accept any other view, but their own.

It is funny how the conservative island - the church is becoming more and more liberal under the crazy pressure of the leftists in Sweden, whereas the left is becoming more and more oppressing.

Feminists demand from men to wear a bra, left-wing peace lovers are attacking police in their demonstrations for peace, priests are allowed to be everything that the bible rejects, convicted pedophiles should have the best time of their life in their short prison term, car burners are not guilty, but the white/christian Svenssons are, muslims are allowed to cover their women in blanket due to their culture, but the horrible Anderssons oppress women like nobody else... There is no thought, no arguments, no debate... Just slogans that they read on their Che shirts.

Pathetic
05:36 November 12, 2009 by jsrinmd
I write at the end of the day on 11 November. I'm so far away from the "Swedish Bubble" that it's already the 12th in Sweden. May God bless the ministry of this new Bishop and keep her family safe in loving arms.

For statistical purposes you can know that I am a straight Christian woman who has worshipped side-by-side with gay, straight, transgender, and worshippers of color for 70 years. If any of that were wrong, I'm sure by now God would have addressed my error with a 20 pound sledge hammer. All I have received was love. Thanks be to God!
05:57 November 12, 2009 by A Viking Warrior
@ jsrinmd

Well what a nice story. If only it was true.

In that 70 years you have been worshipping in Christian churches, did you ever once actually read the core text of your faith?

And tell me, how many transgender worshippers did you encounter 70 years ago?

I really would be fascinated if you could elaborate on this aspect of your story. I think we all would…
07:06 November 12, 2009 by Gwrhyr
Viking Warrior, we would all be fascinated if you could elaborate on a few of the tough questions I asked above. But you repeatedly refused to so I'm not holding my breath that you will now.

Have you actually read the core text of your faith?

Would you have supported the Church's decision to go against Biblical verse in reversing its position of condoning slavery?

Do you follow all of the rules laid down in Leviticus?

Are you aware of the Christian concept of theology (which is not as you previously suggested 'comparative religion')?

And to you and Uncle as well:

Why is it that when people defend gay rights on this forum the defenders of gay rights are usually attacked as hateful against people with your position? Isn't the point of this space to state our views freely and debate them? If you're saying we're being hateful and intolerant of you for not sharing your opinion, aren't you doing exactly what you're accusing us of doing? Is the reason you go straight to these types of accusations to deflect attention from the actual subject at hand and to ignore the points of the other side?
07:07 November 12, 2009 by Uncle
Yep - the color part is not relevant, since Christianity was always missionary and never differed between the colors of the infidels that should be taught the word of God with sword and fire...

Well, except that in the US special churches for blacks were invented with the distinguished singing and screaming of an opinion in a middle of the service. A bit different from the WASP churches, eh? But at least the blacks were not kicked out of the "white" churches like they were from the white restaurants...

I really would like to see these drag queens coming into the halls of a cathedral on their high heels and dropping faithfully to their knees. Do their hats and dresses disturb them when they are trying to enter the confession booth? Do they tell the father: "Forgive me father, for I have sinned. I did not allow Fabulous Yalonda to loan my mascara, because she is a biiiatch"?

What I would more like to see is how 75 y/o jsrinmd (I take it that you did not count your laying in the stroller in the church within your worshiping experience) is holding the hands of 5 transgendered transvestites in a middle of a Protestant/Catholic church and singing "All hail the power of Jesus name" and the loving priest is pouring a tear from abundance of reverence to the unity of all people.

BULL...

And by the way - there is a difference between a gay worshiper who can allow himself disregard certain parts of the bible (the way everyone else does, when there are stoning to death instructions in that book) and an actual priest, who is supposed to provide answers and radiate stability, rather that awake questions.
07:38 November 12, 2009 by Gwrhyr
So, Uncle, you don't like it when priests give stable answers that disagree with your interpretation of Christianity? Who voted you Pope of All Christians? Your incredulity that Christian churches exist that don't agree with your interpretation of the Bible and the message of Jesus Christ is surprising considering that Christianity consists of many denominations that have split over many different theological issues over the years. Surely it's not a surprise to you that there are Christian churches who unabashedly and wholesomely welcome worshipers no matter what clothes they wear or what gender they feel themselves to be?

You'd be surprised then that when I came out as gay my very religious Christian grandmother hugged me and told me that God and Jesus love me the way I am and that she knows in her heart that God made me gay. I grew up in a church that welcomed spiritual introspection, where Bible Study was actual Bible Study, i.e. exploring the context of the Bible, translation issues, the realities of the Bible times, debating the different modern interpretations of the Bible (and contrary to what you might think all viewpoints, whether conservative or progressive were brought up and talked about). I guess this type of Church and spirituality is very foreign to you. That's a shame.
13:35 November 12, 2009 by Random Guy
....again, like and alcoholic, people with gay tendencies should seek help to stop their destructive life course. They have a choice to live a right or wrong life.

And yes, you can prove for yourself the Bible is the word of God. Just yelling in a blog it is not does not make your rant true.

It is all about choice - it is up to you reader what your conscience is telling you ( you can hear it telling you what is right and wrong! ).
13:50 November 12, 2009 by Uncle
Gwrhyr - to your last comment. Gays are welcome in churches with love AND hope that they will abandon their sinful ways with the help of the Lord (not my opinion, and again - I am not religious at all). Any deviation from the main stream christian beliefs is an exception.

The proof of DIRECT bashing of homosexuality (not dual meaning or allegories) was given here about 10 times in this and previous arguments by people who are better than me in the bible texts.

The mainstream church is like Peter Griffin in Family Guy who made a shirt for his wife when she was running for mayor:

Everyone vote for Louis!

Except Jews

Ok, Jews

But no gays

Ok, gays also

Just the church forgot the last line.

Ok, I hope that I answered to the argument "But the church loves EVERYONE" and no - I still do not think that many have seen transvestites in a church. Weird, right?

In regards to your previous comment. No sense. You (and alike you) do not accept the biblical texts as an argument for rejection of gays and call them irrelevant to the modern times in your argument why gays should be able to preach based on these irrelevant texts. You are in an argument that defies itself. So when you realize that you are stuck - then the opponent becomes a Medieval barbarian.
14:55 November 12, 2009 by OnewithChrist
I would like to humbly leave my comment in regards to this issue - I think we need to see this from Jesus Christ's view and not mans view. As christians we should strive to be more like Jesus Christ each day of our lives. We have to realize first that the Holy Bible is the true word of God, no errors, it was inspired by the Holy Spirit through Holy men that wrote as the Holy Spirit revealed the message to them. These were not any kind of man but Holy men. In the book of John 1:1 - it is written - In the begining was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He also said if you abide in me (my word) I will abide in you. The Lord will send people into our lives to speak a message from him in love and a wise man accepts and grows from the rebuke.

We all know the account in the Bible of Sodom and Gomorrah - Genesis 19 -
15:27 November 12, 2009 by A Viking Warrior
@ Gwrhyr

I have educated you before now on your appalling lack of comprehension.

You say:

"Are you aware of the Christian concept of theology (which is not as you previously suggested 'comparative religion')?"

When it was actually Dick Methnane who claimed that he had 'studied' the subject of 'comparative religion' and was somehow an expert on ignoring the bible as a result!

Do you even know where you are or what day it is?! Just nod if you can hear me!!

And I have also told you, you didn't ask any questions, you just produced a long boring rant.

Whilst at no point have I personally criticised homosexuals, merely pointed out that bible / word of God has, I have also never declared any faith or denomination thereof because it is irrelevant and simply none of your business. I have read the bible, both testaments cover to cover though.

All you need to know about the bible and the Christian God's attitude to homosexuality is contained in the quotes, as already posted, below.

That is the true position and that reveals that this consecration is just a politically created abomination of the Christian faith:

"Bible quotes, Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

OK, now lets see you campaign for homosexual Imam's and informing Muslims that the Koran isn't the word of God…
16:01 November 12, 2009 by Swati
To be very straight i am a muslim and respect bible alot.Its unnatural act appearently every one knows.Bible talks about it and Quran also talks about it.This is the bigest sin ever please talk about finding any means to stop this.

The Gay in the Quran:

The Noble Quran considers the gay act as a big sin that deserves punishment in the afterlife.

But the Quran does not command to kill the Gay
18:16 November 12, 2009 by calebian22
@RDN

Of course Martin Luther and Martin Luther King are separate people. My first comment was about Martin Luther, of the LUTHERan church. Foxpur responded to me about Martin Luther King. Did you actually read the comments before responding?
18:59 November 12, 2009 by Uncle
Swati - so why gays are hanged publicly in Iran? Didn't mullas read Quran?
02:15 November 13, 2009 by Gwrhyr
Well, Viking Warrior, you ignored my questions yet again, and produced your own long-winded rant, yet again. You posted Bible quotes, I posted Bible quotes. Both you and Uncle show a lack of interest in elaborating on why you believe that some Bible quotes should be interpreted one way and others ignored (as you have both ignored the Bible quotes I posted and my questions about them, I take it you just choose to ignore Bible quotes that contradict your view of Christianity?) Fine, that's your prerogative. But if you aren't Christian or if your religion is none of my business, why bring up religious arguments here?

Your claims of being victimized are an attempt to avoid any deeper discussion on the philosophy and ethics of the content of this news story. You simply state your own opinions about Christianity as pure fact without explaining your background thinking. You claim I'm being condescending and telling you what you should believe, but both of you use language that is extremely condescending. I haven't told you what to believe once, I've just offered my beliefs and opinions up and asked you a few questions, questions which you both ignore, Viking Warrior in a rather bizarre manner, and Uncle in a more eloquent writing style.

Why do you two claim that your interpretation (whether you are Christian or not is irrelevant here, you both have an idea in your heads of what Christianity is to each of you whether you practice the religion or not) is the only correct interpretation?

To recap, here are the questions you both have ignored, and which nobody on your side of this debate have dared to try to answer:

Would you or would you not have supported the Christian church's reversal of opinion on slavery at the time it happened?

Do all Christians need to abide by all of the laws found within Leviticus?

Have you ever in your studies of Christianity (whether you practice or not, your ideas on Christianity came from somewhere) examined areas of the Bible that contradict each other and how Christians in the past have responded to theological change over time on such issues as the role of women in the church and society, female uncleanliness during menstruation, slavery, and homosexuality?

Why do I get the feeling that you will once again ignore my questions, complain about them being "another long-winded nonsensical rant" and try to "educate" me about something you claim you either don't believe in or it's none of my business to know if you believe in, all the while claiming that it's me who is being hateful and condescending towards to you? Just for asking relevant questions pertaining to your reasoning behind the statements you claim as fact. But whoops, it's too late, you will probably focus only on this last paragraph and how condescending you feel it is and you might even start making assumptions about what I would or would not say to Muslims about subjects completely off-topic to this article.
05:11 November 13, 2009 by A Viking Warrior
@ Gwrhyr

Yes, yet again, another long winded boring rant.

Your 'questions' were fully answered, if you cannot comprehend that then that it is you at fault, not me.

But then your comprehension, as duly noted, is abysmal.

For example, I have made no claim of 'victimisation' at all; it is entirely your construct. I merely pointed out the erroneous and baseless premise of your accusations.

Your long winded rant is confirming precisely to the PC Commissar task of incessantly questioning the very legitimacy of an ideology that is opposed or in contradiction to your own.

The bible is very clear on homosexuality as is the word of the Christian God and once again I will cite the quotations below. That is the only issue here.

If you believe that there are hypocrisies and discrepancies in the full application of said text and word of God then that again is purely a political issue, not one for the text or the word of God.

Once again, you do not pass comment on the equivalence of your cultural dialectic tactics in the application of informing Muslims that the Holy Quran and associated texts are not the absolute word of God.

Of course you don't. It's not in the agenda, as yet.

Here, once again, is the core text of Christianity's absolute word on the matter of homosexuality and the word of the Christian God:

"Bible quotes, Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

You can question and angle as much as you want my friend: That above is the reality.

This action by the 'church' goes against its very foundation and its faith, and as such is an abomination.

A purely political act.
07:14 November 13, 2009 by Uncle
Nothing to add to the above.

Only an alien from Alpha Centaura would need to interpret the above and not take it literally. However the aliens may not understand the concept and the meaning of the word "Chair" and therefore may need comparative allegories for this concept.
08:46 November 13, 2009 by calebian22
Quick question to the supporters of homosexuality in the Christian church leadership.

Why are some sexually related sins like pedophilia and adultery not tolerated and homosexuality is acceptable?
09:47 November 13, 2009 by Gwrhyr
Well, once again you ignored what I said and accused me of being a PC commissar. Great. Whatever that means.

You ignore the slavery issue, you put words in my mouth about Islam (When have I ever said what I would or wouldn't say to Muslims?)You ignore most of the Bible and refuse to acknowledge Bible quotes that contradict your rigid, one-sided and dare I say PC view. Your view is your version of PC as you think my version is the PC view of wherever you think I come from . Why do you assume I grew up in a place where acceptance of homosexuality was "on the PC agenda"? What does that really have to do with anything here? Or are you trying to distract from your gaping lack of response to the core issues here? You have failed to give any reason why the Bible's English translation should be taken as literal truth and the infallible Word of God IN its current interpretation by SOME people in the church?

Once again, there is no room for discussion of your reasoning. I've discussed mine. You won't mention slavery and the fact that every Christian denomination today condemns it even though it is supported by Biblical scripture. This leads into Calebian's question.

Calebian22, the reason that homosexuality is accepted by many Christians is because they do not believe that it is a sin. If two people who love each other, regardless of sex, commit to each other and engage in a consensual relationship there is no sin, according to many Christians. Often this is from an understanding of the Bible that comes from reading the entire thing (not just picking out random quotes out of context and then saying only idiots would actually want to find out what the Hebrew or Greek words actually were in the verses where the term homosexuality has been used in English or Swedish Bibles. Uncle here seems to think it's idiocy to actually try to understand where the Bible comes from and it's history. He throws out 2,000 years of Christian theology, whereby the meaning of the Bible is debated and different interpretations discussed, and which has led to there being many modern denominations of Christianity).

Viking Warrior, I am not questioning or angling the Bible at all. I am questioning you. The Bible angles itself by having a context and history. Your and Uncle's premise that there is only one version of Christianity that exists is ludicrously false. How do you explain the existence of Lutherans, Catholics, Eastern Othodox, etc.?

You said that if there are discrepancies in the application of the word of God that is only a political issue. Actually it is a Biblical issue that is very clear and which trumps all of the verses you quoted:

"Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:37-40)
11:28 November 13, 2009 by samwise
the whole debate is about the Bible, is it truly the word of God (the Creator of the universe)? or is it just another book filled with errors and lies?

be careful about what we are celebrating here.

the following quote is about freedom, but I think it applies to the principals and moral codes of a society.

There is nothing new under the sun.

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/10/07/do-not-blame-barack/

Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and gave him triumphal processions . . .

Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the "new, wonderful good society" which shall now be Rome's, interpreted to mean "more money, more ease, more security, more living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Julius was always an ambitious villain, but he is only one man.
15:24 November 13, 2009 by Swati
Uncle i dont know about Iran but if they are doing so ,hanging gays publicly in Iran; it means they are more batter christian then you or any other christian nation is.

I request you its not about getting rigid about your point you know what is right and what is wrong.Bible is a word of GOD its ur responsibility to stop it from more amendments.I dont know if there is any chapter in Bible about what happened to the people of LOOT they were Gays ,Quran Speaks about it.
15:57 November 13, 2009 by Uncle
Gwrhyr-I never denied that there are quotes in the bible that do not cancel each other. It is just not the case with homosexuality. Saying that since there are opposite demands in regard to some Bible instructions, does not mean that EVERY sentence in the Bible has a sentence cancelling it. If you say that the commandement to love everybody means that christianity does not have anything against gays is not logical. A good christian must love everyone and help them to overcome their sin. A good christian must love the murderer of his own mother too.

The examples of criminals being forgiven by Jesus do not prove that Jesus would like to make rapists and murderers leaders of Christianity. Even Maria Magdalena was loved - but she did not lead anything and did not manage anyone. She was never an idol that christians followed.

Now I am not saying that gays are compared to rapists, but in the eyes of the Bible it is a crime. NOT suggestions open to discussion. It is hard to confuse the wording "Men who lay with other men", "men who know other men" or "men with men committing indecent acts " with the possible mistranslation of the word "Homosexual".

It is like saying that hanging on a cross Jesus is an allegory and he actually lived until his golden years. Or saying that Jesus ascended in metaphorical meaning. Or saying that his mother was virgin in mind and intentions... It would be targeting the dogmas of all denominations and specifically the harsh Lutheran church that has accepted this political decision... BTW some streams of this church forbid to smile and have any decoration at home. But all of a sudden this church becomes more accepting than average european population..

What a joke!
16:06 November 13, 2009 by A Viking Warrior
@ Gwrhyr

Do you really not understand what has been said to you? Is it really beyond your comprehension?

I have quite clearly answered all of your 'questions thus:'

"If you believe that there are hypocrisies and discrepancies in the full application of said text and word of God then that again is purely a political issue, not one for the text or the word of God."

Like I said, you are just another self-appointed PC Commissar of a higher rank of the likes of 'nemesis' 'nevon' and 'Rick Methvan' who use pure abuse to attempt to intimidate, whereas you use cultural dialectics, that is the cultural Marxism that forms the very basis of the PC ideology, as your tactic.

This is formed by the 'critical theory' which dictates that every target of the PC agenda is subjected to, literally, endless criticism until people collapse in confusion and exhaustion around the issue. It has and is applied to every form of normal and traditional morality, especially sexual, family, immigration and judicial matters and it is voraciously applied to all bastions of tradition, morality and national identity.

Hence the targeting of Christianity.

If people like you can unpick the glue, the very fabric that makes identity, especially national identity then it leaves the resultant populace confused, divided, frightened and directionless. And that is the whole point.

Each step in itself seems relatively innocuous, if not odd, bizarre, absurd, but each step results in a victory and moves up a tier until the PC view is firmly established and so to even question it is to be subjected to the modern sorcery heresy hysteria: Hate labels and hate smears and the dire attendant consequences that such carefully implemented political branding now carries.

That is where the 'nemesis' 'nevon' and 'Rick Methvan' of the PC world step in, after the job is done, using their new founded power and the only weapons in their armory; indeed to even accuse a heretic is to get them on the defensive immediately and thus steal their dynamic.

You are of a much more dangerous tier; you are part of the process of undermining everything and anything that even remotely links and binds Swedes together (or any other country for that matter) and this is your very process: Endless questioning of the bleeding obvious; of established fact; casting doubt and sowing seeds in the minds of the less aware, the more malleable and those (unfortunately most) of the pack mentality.

Once more for you, the word of the bible and the word of God on homosexuality is as quoted in my last comment.

That is the one and only truth here.
20:03 November 13, 2009 by samwise
-- Gwrhyr: The Bible angles itself by having a context and history. Your and Uncle's premise that there is only one version of Christianity that exists is ludicrously false. How do you explain the existence of Lutherans, Catholics, Eastern Othodox, etc.?

you equate "what it is" to "what it should be".

people do all sorts of evil things does not mean they should.

I suppose that God's principals don't change.

Do you know who in the Bible talks about hell the most? Jesus Christ.

Why we need God's love and forgiveness? Because we sin.

We can't avoid the concept of sin.

The parents who love their children hate the ones who harm them, that's just a plain fact.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to love God and accept everything God condemns at the same time. I know we all do, more or less, but it is not quite right.

Parents discipline kids because? they love them.

True love is not about my own feelings, it's about the well being of the one that I love.
06:27 November 14, 2009 by Gwrhyr
VW, you said you're not claiming to be a victim, yet you say I'm heaping abuse. You misunderstand me. I'm not part of an agenda, was not trained into my beliefs by others. I'm sharing my point of view to let you know that your view of Christianity isn't the 'original' interpretation. All interpretations came out of many historical contexts: when Jesus lived, when the books of the Bible were written, when it was translated into what we read today, and the contexts of today. Refusal to acknowledge that is disregarding history. You think that questioning and searching for answers is wrong and part of some agenda to tear apart society. Couldn't be further from the truth. Those who pursue questions and don't take things at apparent face value discover an amazing world that those who simply react to their daily lives and times miss. You don't realize that the dogma you defend is just one interpretation out of many; not as self-evident as you claim. Uncle, you do confuse homosexuals with criminals and murderers. The difference is the Biblical message of love.They have victims, consensual homosexual couples don't. You all ignored the slavery issue again; realized that's the huge elephant in the room that eats away at yourarguments. Slavery, condoned by parts of the Bible, isn't accepted because slaves are victims of a non-consensual condition. Most Christians have long before concluded that the Bible clearly states the requirement to be a Christian is to believe in Jesus Christ as your savior and the love of God and of your neighbor as yourself is the most important commandment. VW argues that people must love themselves more than others. That is clearly shot down in the Bible. You both didn't answer if you think Christians should follow all the laws of Leviticus. Another elephant in the room waiting to be acknowledged while you ignore it, avoiding its gaze. Sam, I do not equate "what is" to "what should be". I study the Bible to find out "what it is" as opposed to what people like you think "it should be". You and your pro-slavery predecessors have long used the Bible to justify your political causes, doing what VW accused me of. I'm interested in why you believe that. But you say "it's fact, plain and simple". Using that logic, when a kid believes their grandma has always been elderly, that's fact. She looks old, the kid always knew her as old, so she was never young. That's what your logic says. If something's obvious to your eyes in your own limited context, it's pure fact, plain and simple, no questions allowed. That would tear apart the fabric of society. I don't agree with that. I spent a lot of time getting to know my grandma what her life was like when she young. Sam, your allegory to parents who love people who do harm is irrelevant because nobody is doing harm in a consensual relationship. That's the why Christians no longer accept slavery and the premise is the same for consensual homosexual relationships.
07:18 November 14, 2009 by A Viking Warrior.
@ Gwrhyr

I summed up your tactics, your motivations and your reasons above.

I sum up, once again, your lies below:

""Bible quotes, Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

No need for 'interpretation' - all perfectly clear.

The word of God himself through the Good Book itself.

Either you have faith, or you do not.
00:28 November 15, 2009 by Gwrhyr
The elephant in the room just gave birth to octuplets.

No need to repeat myself over and over again to a troll.

May you have a good day.
01:07 November 15, 2009 by A Viking Warrior.
@ Gwrhyr

You are clearly not a Christian and you clearly do not hold Christian faith.

I have exposed your lies and tactics for all to see.

You are a troll of the most pernicious kind.

Good day to you.
11:50 November 15, 2009 by Gwrhyr
Did you not read where I talked about my Christian background? You are an insult to me, my grandmother and the church community I belong to.

You are using the well-known tactic of ignoring what I say in order to take the pressure off of yourself and the fact that you have no answers to basic questions that all Christians come across when they contemplate the Bible:

Do you think all Christians should follow all the rules of Leviticus?

Do you support slavery? If not, how do you twist and angle the Bible to fit your view?

Awaiting your answers.
15:11 November 15, 2009 by samwise
Gwrhyr: "You and your pro-slavery predecessors have long used the Bible to justify your political causes, doing what VW accused me of. I'm interested in why you believe that."

"Slavery, condoned by parts of the Bible, isn't accepted because slaves are victims of a non-consensual condition. "

first of all, I don't know who my "predecessors" are.

I might have used the Bible to justify my political causes, but I'm not sure where politics fits in in this issue, it looks to me about the Biblical faith and church principals, I don't think it has anything to do with politics at all.

On slavery, I wouldn't suggest that the Bible "condones" it. It's a long story, but keep in mind that slavery is one of the oldest institutions in humans history. The Bible clearly mentions it. I think God instructs the Israelites how to deal with it in real life, where peoples/nations all around them practice slavery, in fact, all israelites were slaves in Egypt.

I'm no expert on this topic, but I had this impression from somewhere I read that the jews abandoned slavery very early because the rules about slaves and slave holders are too much that it becomes too expensive for slave holders to afford.

The Bible mentions murder and rules about it doesn't mean God "condones" or advocates that kind of act at all, it simply means God knows it's part of reality at the time, and He helps people to deal with it in reality at the time.

The principals don't change, the specific implementations do.

I think the Bible is consistent and coherent.

And I do tend to accept it at face value most of the time. I don't think God wants to confuse the average folks with the book He authors, and people have to rely on "the enlightened" to understand Him.
16:56 November 15, 2009 by A Viking Warrior.
@ Gwrhyr

*"Did you not read where I talked about my Christian background?"*

Did you not read the bit where the bible and the word of God clearly tells you the Christian position on homosexuality?

I reproduce it below.

*"You are an insult to me, my grandmother and the church community I belong to."*

You are an insult and a danger to all Christians.

Clearly you do not believe; clearly you do not accept the word of God; clearly you think you know better then the word of God and can twist it however you want; clearly you have no faith.

*"You are using the well-known tactic"*

Your tactics, the tactics of the PC Commissar - your real business here - I detail above.

You have been exposed.

*"Do you think all Christians should follow all the rules of Leviticus? Do you support slavery? If not, how do you twist and angle the Bible to fit your view?"*

This is the fourth time I have answered your 'questions' now:

-"If you believe that there are hypocrisies and discrepancies in the full application of said text and word of God then that again is purely a political issue, not one for the text or the word of God."-

Now here is the real word of the God once again through the Good book - but you know better don't you?

You are just as I said, a self-appointed lying PC Commissar here to question and undermine.

""Bible quotes, Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."
07:06 December 12, 2009 by heaven cant wait
if sleep with another man(i am male) practice homosexual activities then go to church invite jesus into my heart, ask for forgiveness of my sins; go home have a heart attact in the midst of homosexual sex, i go to heaven?? so am i to believe there are gay people in heaven? i am truly confused. i find it hard to believe some one in heaven is allowed to desire a same sex person.
21:52 January 12, 2010 by lingonberrie
Her sexual preferences are purely a matter of her own business.

The angels are immortal. Thus, The Star of The Morning, a.k.a. Satan, is immortal.

The Star of The Morning challenged the authority of God and was banished, most likely to what is now known as the United States.

God allows the so-called Fallen angel to rise back up for a day whenever that angel does a good deed.

I picture all of the immortals observing the mortals on earth--that they created and planted there--with amusement, and especially those who post comments on blogs.

The Star of The Morning, or the "Devil," is not within any mortal, no more than God is within any mortal.

Immortals really want nothing to do with mortals no matter what your so-called "religions" have to say, or your "Bibles" or "Korans" that mortals create.

Mortals are a pathetic lot, and a big failure as a crop. One day, God will hurl a comet a tenth of the size of the moon, and get rid of the crop.

Mortals will go neither to "Heaven" or "Hell"

to reside but into the endless void as mere cells for use in some other crop.
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There is a popular narrative that in Sweden people bite their tongues while in Denmark they speak their minds; political commentator Brian Esbensen debunks this, arguing that Danes simply find it easier to criticize others. READ  

Swedish cops elect not to shoot 'angry elks'

Swedish cops elect not to shoot 'angry elks'

After reports that wandering elks were scaring the public, police on the island of Frösön have decided not to open fire on the animals, but have urged locals to exercise caution instead. READ  

Swedish funds to tackle female genital mutilation
Sweden's Minister of International Development Cooperation Hillevi Engström with Foreign Minister Carl Bildt. File photo: TT

Swedish funds to tackle female genital mutilation

Sweden has earmarked 48 million kronor ($7 million) of its development aid budget to a United Nations programme to tackle female genital mutilation. READ  

Swedish leaders speak out on Gaza crisis
Photo: TT

Swedish leaders speak out on Gaza crisis

Swedish foreign minister Carl Bildt believes Israel is interested in negotiating a ceasefire with Hamas while Social Democrat leader Stefan Löfven has stood by his comment about the Israelis having a right to defend itself. READ  

New alcohol retail rules threaten micro-breweries
File photo: Systembolaget

New alcohol retail rules threaten micro-breweries

Swedish micro-breweries have reacted with concern to new distribution regulations being imposed by the state controlled alcohol monopoly Systembolaget, which they fear may put them out of business. READ  

ABB and Volvo in electric buses tie-up
Volvo hybrid bus. Photo: Volvo Buses

ABB and Volvo in electric buses tie-up

Swiss-Swedish engineering group ABB and Volvo Buses of Sweden have announced a joint project to develop a system for electric buses to recharge their batteries fast when at bus stops. READ  

'First ever' heat warning issued for Sweden
Photo: TT

'First ever' heat warning issued for Sweden

Swedish weather agency SMHI has issued its first ever warning for high temperatures with the many areas set to bask in plus 30C heat. READ  

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22 July

PROTECTING GIRLS FROM ABUSE OF THEIR RIGHTS (The Diplomatic Dispatch) »

"Today (22 July) my Prime Minister, David Cameron, and UNICEF, are hosting the world’s first #GirlSummit in London. The Summit’s aim is to mobilise domestic and international efforts to end the appalling practices of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) and Child Early Forced Marriage (CEFM). This is a high priority for the UK government and the Prime..." READ »

 

18 July

Starting over (Around Sweden in a kayak) »

" I’ve now been off the water for almost 14 days. At first I was totally gutted being forced into a rest period, I had Stockholm in my sights and apart from the pain and discomfort in my shoulder, spirits were high and I was starting to gain some momentum. The news hit me fairly hard and..." READ »

 
 
 
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