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Sweden to tackle 'ticking bomb' of Islamic violence
Minister for Integration Nyamko Sabuni

Sweden to tackle 'ticking bomb' of Islamic violence

Published: 19 Jan 2010 07:53 GMT+01:00
Updated: 19 Jan 2010 07:53 GMT+01:00

“Either society helps support their way back to a normal life, or we have a ticking bomb in our society,” Sabuni told Sveriges Radio (SR).

She added that she has tasked the Swedish National Board for Youth Affairs (Ungdomsstyrelsen) to survey the needs of people who need assistance quitting Islamic extremist groups.

Sweden has previously supported people’s efforts to leave neo-Nazi groups, but according to Sabuni, similar programmes need to be developed for young people who are drawn to violent Islamic extremism.

“We’ve identified a number of networks and organizations which primarily recruit young people who feel excluded from society,” Sabuni told SR.

“We also know that there are many who want to leave these organizations, but who don’t always have support from society."

Sabuni has also called on the Swedish Association of Local Authorities and Regions (SALAR) to get engaged in preventative work against extremism.

“All kinds of preventative work works best on a local level, so the municipalities are very important,” she said.

TT/David Landes (news@thelocal.se)

Your comments about this article

09:27 January 19, 2010 by Lukestar1991
I don't really think that people are going to buy this.
09:38 January 19, 2010 by peropaco
It is funny how politicians and people in general always have the need to apologize for the misguided behaviours of certain members in the society. Sabuni, they are other youths from Chile and other parts of the world living in Sweden who are marginalized but I don't see them running to join any extremist group.
10:13 January 19, 2010 by warriorwithin
I agree with this integration mnister, i still consider her to be moderate in her approach however. I think Sweden lacks a strong leader like how the dutch have Geerk Van wilders
10:30 January 19, 2010 by geronimoIII
Interesting...we can expect some diverse opinions on this article, I think. I have a question...why were Afghanistan and Iraq invaded? Have the ends justified the means?
10:57 January 19, 2010 by Gwrhyr
I think what she says is very reasonable and in line with previous Swedish measures to help people leave neo-Nazi groups. Peropaco seems to forget that Sabuni mentions these neo-Nazi groups, which usually reach out to angry and disenfranchised white Swedes. And where on Earth in there is she apologizing for the behavior of extremist youth? All she seems to be doing is bringing this issue to the media's attention so that people think she's doing her job - her bosses in the Alliance government probably told her it's her turn to get a statement about her work out there in the media. Next it'll probably be Anders Borg's turn to come up with some media quote and then Maria Larsson or whoever. They just want to make people think that they're doing their jobs whether they are doing them or not. Now a lot of regular people will read this article from Sabuni and say "Good, she's aware of this and doing something about it" whether she actually is doing something or not. The power of the media is such that politicians don't have to do anything to make people think they are.
11:27 January 19, 2010 by Newyork-Växjö
Give immigrants jobs, Keep them busy at work place, tell your employeers to hire immigratns, Do not throw away their Master degree CV by Reading their immigrant names. If you want to integrade them give them job. do not just keep them busy for 10 years to study swedish.

The reason someone become a terrorist is for example. Isrealis take their land, destory their houses with bulldozer. If you take the house and destroy them there is nothing left for then so they wanna take others life as well.
11:49 January 19, 2010 by Nemesis
This is blaming the sympton for the cause.

Sweden needs a multi pronged aproach.

There needs to be more education of immigrants with full time 9 to 5 SFI courses not half baked 8 to 11 masquerading as full time.

Employers who bin CV's without even reading them need to face criminal charges for racism, without exception.

There nees to be a law that the best person for the job gets it, no matter what the personel/union/manager thinks.

Extremists who preach anti Sweden/Europe/West hatred need to be immediately deported not given assistance from political people and idiots. Anyone supporting an extremist needs to be deported with the extremist even if a citizen, then they can support them in there extremism and find out the hard way what it really means.

All immigrants upon arrival in Sverige need to be evenly spread out all over Sverige with no exceptions being made. Ghettos should be prevented from forming.
12:15 January 19, 2010 by Per Johansson52
Nemesis

You are not allowed to force people where they should live, as it is every person's choice and free well.

Many immigrants who are professionals want to work and pay the bills and live in Stockholm, Who the fK r u to decide for them?

you are a EXTREMISTS racist urself. Thelocal users were right about you, so u better Shut your mouth and not call politician and people idiot.
12:44 January 19, 2010 by G Kin
@Nemesis

You have some points there but the radical deportation solution is a double catch.

Do you know why America's invasion of Iraq has been a serious mistake?

Why there is reluctance in sending extrimist/terrorist back to some countries?

An extrim position is always dangerous irrespective of weather it is to the left or to the right.

Like me, the bulk of society/world wants to live in the middle.

The minister's proposition is a good approach I think. But the good people out of the main stream of society shouldn't be forgotten !.
12:52 January 19, 2010 by geronimoIII
Nemesis...I have an idea. Why dont we engage these so called extremists in a conversation and try to learn what their beef is? Just maybe, we can get to the heart of the matter before we commence to blow each other to smithereens.
13:00 January 19, 2010 by Twiceshy
Simple. Outlaw islam. No other religion says blow yourself up and killing kids is just fine and you go to heaven and get 40 virgins.
13:07 January 19, 2010 by Beynch
"Tackle" does not even begin to address the issue. Sweden will need a lot more hard headed approach to this sordid cancer in Sedeen's midst. And she needs to put aside any PC considerations for at least a generation, and temporarily amend its Constitution. More like "obliterate" or "exterminate" the problem. Here's my 10-point approach: 1) A time-out on all invandring from any muslim country. Especially immigration under so called "family reunification", a pathetic misnomer. 2) Aggressive and immediate repatriations of those who do not follow the rule book. 3) Redefine the concept of "refugee". 4) Strict enforcement of adaptation to Swedish behavioral norms, i.e. no hijabs, or even any remote semblance of shariah laws, arranged marriage, etc. 5) A 20 year moratorium on all mosque construction. 6) No public assistance, of any kind, for the first 10 years of - law abiding - residence. You are granted residence here, you support yourself, and you "become Swedish" 7) No voting rights for the first 10 years of lawful citizenship. 8) Expited removal of those who enter the country illegally. 9) Improved integration infrastructure for those who do come legally. 10) Deportation of those, under 50, who are not proficient in the Swedish language after 6 years.

Anything less than this is doomed to failure, and the demise of Sweden as we know her.
13:07 January 19, 2010 by calebian22
geronimoIII

"why were Afghanistan and Iraq invaded? Have the ends justified the means? "

I hope you are not saying that Islamist extremism BEGAN with these invasions. I know America is a great target for all of Europe's and the world's problems(Rightful, in some instances), but I hope your thinking is not as simplistic as your statement implies.
13:35 January 19, 2010 by geronimoIII
Sometimes calebian22, it is a good idea to start discussing complex issues in simplistic terms without a lot of rhetoric...you can usually avoid blowing each other to smithereens in the process. You could start by answering my questions to the best of your ability so that we may have a discussion. My thinking is as simplistic as the questions imply...afterall, the conversation must have a starting point where BOTH sides are engaged.
13:46 January 19, 2010 by CarlBlack
@ Per Johansson52, Nemesis:

The government should not decide about immigrants who are employed and pay the bills, but those who come as refugees and ask for support should be placed according to government's decision. For example north is somehow being overlooked and I think that in Kiruna there are still plenty vacancies for those who really want to work...

Formation of ghettos was unfortunately often started by municipalities which decided to place these people together, so this should be prevented on that level.
14:01 January 19, 2010 by Buccaneer
Extreme groups like the neo-nazis, extreme islam, extreme christians are all a cancer to society. They should not be treated like normal thinking people would be treated, because they do not think rationally.

These people see the world from an extreme point of view. Why would anyone want to kill innocent people so they can get 70 virgins whereever? This is madness.

They should be shown ZERO tolerance, because you can not reason or negotiate with them. How do you negotiate with someone who is bent on forcing his views on other or bent on getting 70 virgins?

However, I do think that people should be given the opportubity to be gainfully employed in line with their skill or qualification. Discrimination gives room for preachers of extreme views to get across to people who are frustrated andsee no way out.

As much as it would help for sweden to work on discrimination in the area of housing and employment, Swden should do more to tighten its laws. I am not in support of Sweden losing its identity. Sweden must remain Swedish, but forces of globalization will act on it one way or the other.
14:07 January 19, 2010 by travels
@Twiceshy

Just a small correction. It's 72 (seventy two) virgings, not just 40 (fourty) and by the way, as they get "used" their virginhood regenerates.
14:58 January 19, 2010 by calebian22
geronimoIII,

You are right. Complex problems and their discussions need a starting point. The beginning is usually a good place to start. However it would seem that you and I disagree as to the source and it's causes. Afghanistan and Iraq are not the jumping off points for Islamist extremism.
15:43 January 19, 2010 by Greg in Canada
Sweden watchers have warned Sweden for years that their immigration policies would eventually create major social problems. This is a case of first creating a problem and now trying to find a solution to fix it.
16:24 January 19, 2010 by Uncle
" I have a question...why were Afghanistan and Iraq invaded? Have the ends justified the means? "

I can answer for Afghanistan here. Because extremists used a western country that welcomed them and killed 3K people one morning. If there would be no answer to that, the same extremists would continue killing 3K people per year.

Islamic extremism started to develop in the 50-s, glided to 60-s and exploded in the 70-s.

Palestinians introduced a new kind of warfare in the west, where almost every year kidnapping, car bombing and random shooting happened in airplanes, boats, restaurants and buses in EUROPE. Actually the first Irani revolutionary guard were trained in the PLO bases in Lebanon and Tunisia.

Muslims sponsor and commit more than 80% of killing DIRECTED at civilians in the world. It was just a matter of time when these sponsoring centers are going to be hit.
16:49 January 19, 2010 by Nemesis
@ Uncle

Precisely.

The problem started long before 911.
17:40 January 19, 2010 by pathfinder.uppsala
who is this Newyork-Växjö !!??

Is that a robot or something...??

He or she just never understand the point of any use and comment to spread his islamic propaganda !!!??

The Local Should bann that user !!!!!

and i also support the news headline...!!

Either sweden should stop taking from islamic countries where extremists has a healthy root or they should introduce such policy so that people become more swedish here rather then being and extrimists !!!

GoodLuck !
17:48 January 19, 2010 by Iraniboy
Twiceshy and travels

"Simple. Outlaw islam. No other religion says blow yourself up and killing kids is just fine and you go to heaven and get 40 virgins. "

Well a person tried to do the same thing in 1950s about Jews after vlaming all evils on Judiasim but he failed! Good luck wiht it!

@Uncle

Only 80%? I think it must be 110% Considering thousands on civilians died in Iraq, Afhanistan, Gaza ,Lebanon war!!

Btw I don't know why a war between two countries for land (Palestine and Israel) has anything to do this unless you're one those tens of 'the local' lovely members who just joined here after Israel-Sweden stand-off!!

@ Minister

If you know that there are such groups, it's your and your goverment's resposiblity to find, disband and arrest them to make a safer society for all.
18:11 January 19, 2010 by Mak81
@Twiceshy and travels

Well i guess guys you have to get your facts straight , dont blame any religion or group until or unless you have knowledge about it , i guess first you have to read the Quran and then post something like that , i am really ridiculed by this statement of yours .

No religion in the world says something like that , all religions condemn killings of humanity.

Sorry to say but if you want to know about Islam read the Quran just dont look at a few black sheep's that are always on the media because if you want to get into this debate i can quote thousands of references from history and one of them is hitler , you never call him a christian terrorist , please before labelling someone think twice what are you saying.

Let Peace prevail.

The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.

There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.

"Slay Them" - If They Attack You First

For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.
18:35 January 19, 2010 by Beynch
No Pathfinder.Uppsala! Do not ban New York - Växjö! Then you're stooping to same lows that Islamists and liberals employ. Let her speak her mind. In fact noone should be prevented from expressing an opinion, no matter how offensive to some. We can make up our own minds when crackpots, with ulterior motives, speak. The hypocricy of jihadists, and the liberal left, is always mindblowing. Let it be on full display.
19:31 January 19, 2010 by Mak81
contd...

"Fight the Pagans" - If They Break Treaties

A similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.

This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).

Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."

Conclusion

Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.

The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):

"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."
20:13 January 19, 2010 by Nemesis
Extremism in Sverige is nothing to do with the Palestine-Israel conflict, Iraq or Afghanistan.

Extremism in those communities was in existance before these events. The extremism comes from the extremists. It is nothing to do with Sverige.

It is the extremists that want to expand there extremism to Sverige.
20:18 January 19, 2010 by Beynch
@Nemesis" I assume you include jihadists and other uncivilized vermin in your term "extremists".
20:57 January 19, 2010 by Iraniboy
@Beynch

I assume you also include those facsists and Islamophobes because some of them have been so dangerous recently. One British BNP member was found with so much explosive devices in his home and another Islamophobe killed a German Muslim woman in the court,...!!!

Extremism comes from extremist views that can be found in different ideologies. I agree with Nemesis
20:58 January 19, 2010 by explodp
@Mak81 - I admire your efforts to explain the moderate Islamic position but it is, surely, not helped by the millions around the world who believe that, as Islam is 'the only true faith', it is right to impose it at will. I am sorry to say Islam has an uphill struggle when you read of 13 year old rape victims being stoned to death for adultery ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/world/africa/05somalia.html ) under Islamic Sharia law. If you can explain this then you would go a heck of a long way to explaining Islam to the western world. Until then the suspicion of Muslims will remain in the non-Muslim world.
21:27 January 19, 2010 by Mak81
@explodp My friend i guess for all your questions to be answered you need to watch this video on youtube (watch?v=rcPllBfcY6Q&feature=related) and i am not at all trying to convince anyone here that Islam is a moderate religion because i know it is the most moderate religion in this world. What i am trying to say that people should adhere to moral and social values and do not go around speaking without proof because we all come from good backgrounds and show that when we write something here because we are not on a battle field its just a discussion .Secondly It depends on the followers if they follow it fully or partially thats on them the religion has nothing to do with that, Shakespeare once said "blame the actions not the actor". I hope you understand what i mean. Let Peace prevail.
21:27 January 19, 2010 by Uncle
Iraniboy - you are like one of these little demons in the box - pop-up whenever the word Israel or Palestinians is mentioned! Like a Pavlov's dog..

Yeah - why not millions of civilians? All of these civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan are killed by muslims. Whereas in Gaza in Lebanon - everyone knows what "civilians" are there in the statistics. The difference is that normal countries are eliminating armed terrorists, whereas terrorists are just shooting rockets at the population - PURPOSELY.

In regards to your little poor palestinians

To your info palestinians were killed in thousands by Jordanians in the 70's because of bombings there. Palestinians are still under enormous pressure in Egypt (from where the palest. terror started with the Muslim Brothers). Your beloved Hezbollah is beheading palestinians on sight in Southern Lebanon. Whenever there is a clash of palestinians with the christians, druze or shia there, there are quite more dead than in all the conflicts with Israel. Palestinians attacked US civilians in Europe because of the US forces in Lebanon.

BTW, Iraniboy. Saudis and yemenese are bombing shia villages for like 3 months already in Yemen. After 3 years Sa'dah insurgency (sponsored by your cute government, that LOVES peace and freedom, especially for the millions of kurds)- 5,5 THOUSAND civilians dead. More than Palestinians in both intifadas!

WHy so quiet, you "free person"? Why no ripping your shirt and crying for blockade of Saudi Arabia/Yemen? Why not engaging in arguments bashing the gov't of Saudi Arabia? Why no sound? Eh?

And btw, never heard of any country called Palestine... you must be drunk again.
21:47 January 19, 2010 by Beavis
If you dont like Sweden the fck off back where you came from, and that goes for me too!
22:19 January 19, 2010 by Nemesis
@ Beynch

Yes I include Jihadists in what I said as I also include nazis.

I believe the extremists who support terrorism on all sides should all literally be barred from Europe and never allow to step foot in Europe.

I don't care if they are Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Satanist, left, right, Pink Venusian or whatever. If they believe they can use violence or attack the rights of individual citizens, I do not beleive they belong in Europe.

I believe all people who move to Europe, should be made to pledge upon entry to Europe that they will,

Defend democracy for all without exception particularly those that make them uncomfortable, from enemies both outside and inside Europe.

Defned the right to freedom of speech.

Uphold all Human Rights Standards as settled by the European Court of Justice, European Court of Human Rights, Council of Europe and European Parliament.

To uphold all laws of the states of Europe.

Defend the weak against the strong.

Put there ellegiance to the state before that of there religeon or any other form of belief.

Defend all Europeans against outside threats.

I can probably think of quite a few other things to add to that list, but you get the general idea of what I believe.

@ Beavis

Well said.
23:06 January 19, 2010 by Iraniboy
@Uncle

That;s exactly you who pop up when something about immigrants and Islami is said and you relate it to Israel-Palestine by a very strange link!!!

Your personal insult shows you have nothing to say. I don't know why you wrote those things about Saudi, Iranian,...goverments while I have zero respect for those metnioned goverments. The only difference between me and you is that I condemn murderers no matter if they are Israeli, US, British or Iranian but you're totally biased in all your posts and blame Muslims and support Israelis and far-right Nazis. If you're not here for an agenda we should agree that we disagree on human values.
23:11 January 19, 2010 by DeadPrez
@explodp

mak81 isnt explainin the moderate Islamic position but rather THE Islamic position, i'll assume u see the huge difference

also Muslims r under no obligations to explain their faith to anybody of another faith especially the western one

@Mak81 - I too admire your efforts, earlier on i would the give the same arguments as u but as u can see from the subjective replies most *westerners* here have an emotional stake in the Islamic argument, see if u were to some demonize the other major religion(Islam) to the extent it is considered evil u will somehow increase the legitimacy of the remaining one(Christianity)

now i could be wrong but it does not provide an insight into the peculiar personalities on this who always pop up the mentioning of Islam
00:37 January 20, 2010 by pathfinder.uppsala
@travels.

You said 72 virgins and you meant girls i suppose....then could you please tell me if you know that otherwise i will have to ask to any Islamic extremist....!!

what about a woman....if she goes to heaven...will she gets the same facility...like 72 virgin man...!!!???

is there anything written in the holly book !!!???
01:16 January 20, 2010 by muda
we are living in a double standard world. Muslims should accept this fact. When US invaded Iraq to topple Saddam because of WMD, which we know that Bush and Blair were liars, US was not called terrorist. When Iraqi people fought back to defend themselves they were called terrorist. The same thing goes to Palestine. Jews who illegally formed Israel in Palestine were not called terrorist but Palestinians who fought back to defend themselves were called terrorist. This is the root of the terrorism problems. The Muslims are not treated fairly. The world is run by Jews by proxy. I believe everybody will retaliate under such circumstances. Do not blame the repurcusion but blame the cause of the problems and solve it.
02:02 January 20, 2010 by Newyork-Växjö
I am Muslim (Thank God) And I have never read in the Quran that I will get 72virgins. Islam does not promise you 72 virgins.

Islam is the only religion which offers you HELL if you do wrong or suicide or murder innocents.These suicide bombers will go in Hell for sure.

Allah says in the Holy quran do not go extreme in your religion. they are desperate people who commit suicide, study has shown this. Now you know Only Islam offer you Hell if you do wrong but for others religion it has the price been paid by 3rd party by murdering his son. We follow the Quran first and then Hadiths. They are thousands of Hadiths which people reported after the dead of Prophet Mohammad pbuh. so there are authentic hadiths and un authentic hadiths. there is this mention in the un authentic hadiths which many Muslims believe not.

As Prophet Mohammad said."Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt." Any hadiths which makes your heart doubt in it that is not mine. So many fabricated things against Islam, as we see today almost 100000 articles and book are published against Islam.
03:10 January 20, 2010 by Twiceshy
@ Newyouk

I hear this every time some nut blows themselves up. islam does not teach this and the koran does not say blow yourself up. yet every single time, it is some nut saying ALLAH then BOOM! so you tell me - how do you stop them. you don't see ANY other religion where they where bombs in their underwear and try to blow up an airline!
03:26 January 20, 2010 by geronimoIII
Uncle...flimsy argument for invading a company. About as much proof for that as there was for the WMD argument. Barry used that one in his justified war speech accepting the Nobel Peace Prize when he so eloquently convinced the entire world that War is Peace. Pure rhetoric! Nemesis goes right along with it. No surprise there. She parrots in that it didnt start there...tell us, all knowing Nemesis,where did it ALL begin?

calebian22...Islamic extremism is not the jumping point for murder and mayhem either. Historically speaking there has been many a story about PEOPLE inflicting horrible atrocities on each other...if you know what I mean. I dont condone any of it...but i certainly believe that inevitably the question...why?... will have to be considered if one is to intelligently understand the phenomena of extremism or any other form of evil that PEOPLE perpetrate on other people.
03:34 January 20, 2010 by Alex-Spain
Guys. Alas, most of you are bad, very bad actually...

Frankly, I felt physically sick when I read most of your comments (Specifically "Beynch")... Jesus H. Christ ... Beynch appears as a writer of holy books (Torah & Bible), and giving 10 points out of her mind as the10 commandments. Others have written so disgusting stuff.
03:37 January 20, 2010 by geronimoIII
Uncle...

"When a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence it is an index into his desires - desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way."-- Bertrand Russell, philosopher - "Roads to Freedom"
04:09 January 20, 2010 by laura ka baal
@twice shy as if you are shy that too twice shy i can understand you gay who are usually shy, can you blow yourself if u have the guts you will find the dark yellow stinking colour at the back of your underwear.
04:54 January 20, 2010 by svenskdod
It is obvious that there are some strong emotions within this topic, and understandably so.

I am not from Sweden, but I have lived here for some years. I have read the Qur'an and the Bible. I am yet to read the Tora but it is on my to do list. The Qur'an was an interesting read to me, as it was more a rulebook than a religious text. The biggest feeling I had after reading it was fear. The propaganda and amoral rules that were being spouted surprised me. I expected an uplifting read, but I got a Dark-age perspective on life. The lead character had sexual relations with his 9 year old wife for gods sake!!!!! How can this be something that is applicable in todays world?

I certainly hope that there is something done about these Extremist groups. It would be sad to see Sweden go the way of the UK.

Oh, and before I forget, the first ever hostile act between Islam and the USA was the First Barbary War, go look it up and you may notice a trend.
06:54 January 20, 2010 by Uncle
Iraniboy - when did you condemn a muslim government? When? When did you pop-up with criticism of the Iranian gov't? WHEN did you bash Saudis? When did you throw your arguments against Lebanon?

Whenever there was a forum about an iranian demonstration in Sweden against Iranian internal policies YOU switched the focus to Israel. Now, when I mentioned that the muslim terror was LONG before 9/11 - YOU switch the focus to Israel. Whenever there is no connection to Israel whatsoever YOU find a way to condemn it. It becomes plain funny... Like a game - connect to unrelated things in 1 sentence.

Geronimolll - the story of invasion into Iraq is just a story, but it was a matter of time when it would happen. US closed it's ring around "axis of evil" for quite a long time now and finally it started closing.

Not related to this forum though. What IS related is the ability of the muslims to produce these "marginal" extremists in thousands and to cover for them by the argument that they are marginal. It happens since the 60-s and still Europe did not get sober.
11:00 January 20, 2010 by Bender B Rodriquez
@Beynch: Wow, you truly are a fascist... At first you proposal sounded reasonable but after a few lines it became clear why SD will never have any real influence in this country... I wish more people like you spoke up...
11:38 January 20, 2010 by Beynch
Some of you thorw the words "Hitler" and "fascist" around much too liberally. I am niether. And I do not like the guy. I am however extremely concerned with future of Sweden, and how we can rid her of the islamic scourge., and others who use Sweden's policies to a questionable end.
15:35 January 20, 2010 by Nemesis
Those of you who want to know what the first real encounter was between the US and Islam, see,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

And then read about the second Barbary War.

Not all the slaves taken by the Islamists were freed.

The Barbary pirates used to force Europeans into slavery.
15:38 January 20, 2010 by michcas
Are we in Sweden? Does Sweden have laws we should obey? There is so much written here about religion and what the Quran is about is overwhelming.

@mak81

If I wanted to learn about the Quran, I would read it. Please do not give lessons. It would be more interesting if you compared the Bible and quote the text to make some of your points. I do not know of any other religion that goes out in the world and tries to force their views on others. Why?

If a person disobeys the law of the country they are in, they should pay the same penalty as any other person of any other religion. To obey religious laws that are not recognized by a country is totally wrong. And to try and force feed people into accepting others beliefs is even more wrong.

it is horrible that in other countries, peoples lives are destroyed and horrible things happen, but how does that justify extremist behaviors outside the country it originated? Why is it Sweden's responsiblity to try and turn the youths around? What happened to the parents? Their family? Don't they have a responsibility?

If your in Rome, do as the Romans do, not what the Quran says.
15:59 January 20, 2010 by entry
Hitchens had an article a few years ago on this that I had bookmarked.

Jefferson Versus the Muslim Pirates

by Christopher Hitchens,

City Journal Spring 2007

"One of the historians of the Barbary conflict, Frank Lambert, argues that the imperative of free trade drove America much more than did any quarrel with Islam or "tyranny," let alone "terrorism." He resists any comparison with today's tormenting confrontations. "The Barbary Wars were primarily about trade, not theology," he writes. "Rather than being holy wars, they were an extension of America's War of Independence."

Let us not call this view reductionist. Jefferson would perhaps have been just as eager to send a squadron to put down any Christian piracy that was restraining commerce. But one cannot get around what Jefferson heard when he went with John Adams to wait upon Tripoli's ambassador to London in March 1785. When they inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers, America's two foremost envoys were informed that "it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise." (It is worth noting that the United States played no part in the Crusades, or in the Catholic reconquista of Andalusia.)"

[...] more
21:05 January 20, 2010 by moaca
the world would be a much better place without religion all together. Religion undermines logical thinking and creates mindless slaves. Religion is a form of brainwashing. I mean, think about it. Why worship a dead dude? Whats the point of blaming him for all the good and bad - its not like he can hear all these prayers, he is DEAD! Focus instead on making he world a better place. Make love not war!
05:12 January 21, 2010 by NYC76
I'm not going to defend the botched wars the U.S. have conducted in the middle east but, I will state that when looking for someone to blame you will have to move past the tired, old rhetoric of blame the U.S. Many Muslim nations have been aware of the more nefarious actions of extremist amongst them. Their double edged tongues have now wiggled them into a "situation".

To paint the Muslim nations as innocent, religious, virtuous, nations is redundant. They tolerate and support terrorism. What did they think was going to happen when the Twin Towers were knocked down? Did they think the U.S. would come in and take one man (bin laden)? Bush was just waiting for a reason to establish a U.S. presence in the Middle East indefinitely, and their governments collectively (by way of neutrality) handed it to him wrapped in a bow.

I'm sick of people going on about the poor Iraqi's or Afganees; Iraqi's were content to sit and watch Saddam murder the Kurds, Afganees's harbored extremist cells responsible for 911. Since were collectively judging all Americans for the U.S. governments actions then continue down that path and blame these people for their countries actions.
08:16 January 21, 2010 by michcas
@NYC76

Amen! So well said!
10:04 January 21, 2010 by sometimetoquestion
She must be out of here mind. Work closer and guide those closer to you Mrs Sabuni. If the world out here has lost it you might start closer at home and get your relatives in check.

Africans cannot embrace one madeupp religion for another. It must be recogniized that it is the same market running the show nonetheless and fighting over "customers". With their embarassing members concession of conciousness

Blessup

/STTQ
13:19 January 21, 2010 by Nina_
Most of you are so bitter... i don't even like to read comments anymore.
13:26 January 21, 2010 by Audrian
The minister is speaking as if she is talking about other societies. For heaven sake you are a minister with state power and your government has been on power for a number of years. Your government has also sent a number of security officers to Afghanistan.

By now you should have came to tell us what the government has done to date security wise in Sweden, what has worked well and what has not worked.

One of the major solution is for Sweden to take its soldiers our of Afghanistan and like wise advise the US to leave the Afghanistan before it faced the faith of imperial powers before it. On the home front, Sweden should undertaken three measures simultaneously: (1) Study the grievances of the disenchanted members of the Swedish society and tackle them to the earliest possible. Some of the measures might not be expensive financial wise, e.g., give special attention to children, who have difficulties to cope up with primary and secondary schools. (2) Strengthen security to identify, and capture the most dangerous criminals, and (3) undertake campaign to improve relations between minority and majority population.

Now is the time to take actions; not any actions, but smart actions.
14:18 January 21, 2010 by krigeren
I think pointing fingers at Muslims here is a dangerous and slippery slope. Islam like Christianity or Judaism has beautiful and wonderful points on the other hand like all other religions often those seeking power will corrupt the meaning for something totally different.

We have to point fingers at those that created the system to allow divides and problems develop in the first place....Swedish politicians namely the Social Democrats.

When a country opens their doors and invites people to live there it cannot create otehr walls within the society. I beleive there are two paths to the current immigration situation.

1. Current immigrants should be treated with respect and afforded the same rights as everyone else as thats the premise they came here under. To do anything less would be as Swedes often say..uncouth

2. Future immigrants should only be allowed in under programs where they can prove they will benefit Sweden economically. Their access to health care and other social services should be part of a privatized insurance fund.

For immigrants that are already here its vital that they get to work as quickly as possible. To do that employers need incentives. Immigrants should not be given jobs via government job programs..they should be at the vanguard of exporting Swedish services and products to their native countries. Jobs should be designed to allow people to work in whatever language they are fluent in while at the same time these people are offered classes...ideally taught either before or after work at the workplace where the courses are designed around the job people do to a certain degree and general Swedish to another degree.

Overall the politicians have created a problem from the start that is now causing a rift in Swedish society as evidenced by the Swedish Democrats. This was all unnecessary and could have been avoided by investing in private market jobs, adding some flexibility to the system, and moving ahead.

We have to as a society here play upon the strengths and opportunities that come from having immigrants in the job market and how it can benefit the rest of Sweden. The approach now is divisive, destructive, and pits people against one another. Childish really.
15:07 January 21, 2010 by Uncle
@Audrian

How HOW the swedish forces in Afghanistan are contributing to the extremist stream strenghthening??? Why the swedish forces in Croatia did not do it, the swedish forces in Rwanda did not do it, the swedish forces in any other UN mission did not do it, but when they are in Afghanistan, they are encouraging extremism?

How much money should be invested in the people who arrive here, so these people would not start exploding in buses? EH?

Perhaps we should fill their bank accounts as a discouragement to murder swedes? Then for sure extremism will get lower - right? But hold on - the education IS free already... So we need to hire people who would go from house to house and wake the immigrants up in the morning and remind them to go to the free school...

How come indians, koreans, chinese, finnish, danish, americans, phillipinos, thai and greeks are CAPABLE of not exploding in a kindergarten, whereas muslim arabs and africans need special investments in order to assist them NOT EXPLODE? Can you please explain that?

How about investing into pressure on muslim dictatorships to stop being such, while at the same time not opening the borders to uneducated crowd that cannot sign it's own name, but demands the same jobs as the europeans with Masters degree?
16:58 January 21, 2010 by travels
The concept of 72 virgins in Islam refers to an aspect of paradise. In a collection by Imam at-Tirmidhi in his "Sunan" (Volume IV, Chapters on "The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah", chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Heaven", hadith 2687) and also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Qur'an 55:72, it is stated that:

"It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard the Prophet Muhammad saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two HOURI(*), over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.

….. "This means round breasts. They meant by this that the breasts of these girls will be fully rounded and not sagging, because they will be virgins, equal in age."

HOURI(*): "non-menstruating/urinating/defecating and childfree or being able to have a short pregnancy lasting an hour, with bodies not affected by pregnancy or breast-feeding, tall, transparent to the marrow of their bones, eternally young, hairless except the eye brows and the head, pure, beautiful.

The sensual pleasures are graphically elaborated by Al-Suyuti (died 1505 ), Koranic commentator and polymath. He wrote:

"Each time we sleep with a Houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [i.e. Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetising vaginas."

Al-Itqan fi Ulum al-Qur'an, p. 351

There is much more but this is already long enough. Do some research if you want to find out more about hom young men are promissed a wonderful paradise (with 72 virgins and lots of other good things) if they fight jihad, by suicide bombing or other means.
17:10 January 21, 2010 by soultraveler3
@Nemesis

All of your comments hit the nail on the head. Well said.

I think your ideas should be extended not only to include Europe but any western country that takes in refugees. Adapt to and become part of the culture or leave. If westerners moved there we would have to integrate or risk injury, jail time or death.
18:58 January 21, 2010 by dsc
@NYC76

Your comments ( #53) are about the most sensible new thing I have read here.Worth repeating:

" I'm not going to defend the botched wars the U.S. have conducted in the middle east but, I will state that when looking for someone to blame you will have to move past the tired, old rhetoric of blame the U.S. Many Muslim nations have been aware of the more nefarious actions of extremist amongst them. Their double edged tongues have now wiggled them into a "situation".

To paint the Muslim nations as innocent, religious, virtuous, nations is redundant. They tolerate and support terrorism."
20:08 January 21, 2010 by Iraniboy
@dsc

Reduntant? Is it your proof for your general accusation about oen billion Muslims? How do you know about these 1 billion Muslim? Enlighten us!

@Uncle

I have been member of th local for a long time. Read my posts to see I condemn any aggression either by Iranian goverment or Saudi/Egyptian dictators or by immigrants in south of Sweden. What makes you different from me is that I can't accept someone carry the name of Islam and commit a crime so I don't support that person. But you support murderers in Israel and US military and far right fascists around the world merely because they call themselves westerner!

@Beynch

You shouldn't and you're not allowed to tell Swedes what they should do. They have a democratic goverment and legislation and they decide what is best for them. If you're unahppy pack your bags and leave.
20:23 January 21, 2010 by square
Nemesis and co should be nominated for UN leaders as they seem to have solutions for everything. Same old boring dribble, Blablabla. It's a friggin blog not chapters of War and Peace
22:43 January 21, 2010 by NYC76
@iraniboy

Since dsc was quoting me I'll respond. I'm particularly disturbed by the hyper-sensitive reaction you gave to the comment and can only attribute it to a "lost in translation" kind of moment.

Redundant- 1 a : exceeding what is necessary or normal : SUPERFLUOUS b : characterized by or containing an excess; using more words than is necessary.

I used the word redundant to explain how useless it is for anyone Iraqi, Afganee, American, or Swedish to explain the virtue or goodness of its people- since were judging governments and blaming individuals. When you read the comment from an individualist and non-tribal position you'll notice that the criticism lies with the governments and regimes'. No were in my post or dsc post did we disparage a billion people.

We could trade verbal punches, drown in altruism, and play the blame game, but that gets us no were. Basically if we're going to keep blaming the U.S. and Americans - we can (at the very least) spread that blame to countries that use mustard gas, strap bombs to mentally disabled women, harvest organs for sale, make back door deals with the "infidels", harbor terrorist, and profit off the ignorance and poverty of its own people.
23:02 January 21, 2010 by GLO
Beynch, You dont go far enough, Sweden should shut the Bridge to People not Trucks, CLOSE all fast foods, Outlaw MTV, do not let anyone visit without a reason, you need to know who is comming to dinner. Read the book 1984, know where Sweden in being led. Value your history,culture, the Swedish Way. If you let it go it will be a big loss.

A Swedish -American, we are sorry to see your culture disapear in front of our eyes every year we visit.
23:40 January 21, 2010 by DeadPrez
islam is evil because a couple of guys blow themselves up, right? well if we r to judge a 1400 yr old religion with over 1 billion followers using such criteria guess how ur religion will fare?

the entire world was messed up by xtians, there r africans in americas, indians and chinese in west indies, indians in south and east africa, whites in americas, s africa, australia, nz, wiping out entire population in the process, enslaving afroamericans for 400 yr, 400 yrs is along time where was the holy book then

in the nonwhite world, if u ask them who they had to fight for their freedom 90 percent will tell u xtians probably less than 50 yrs ago

xtians have persecuted jews for over 2 centuries, the inquisitions the crusades tried even to wipe them out during holocaust, for christ sake Jesus the Messiah was a JEW(pun intended), david,moses,solom all included

this hypocrisy and selective memory y'all have is so preposterous that to a point it gets amusing
00:01 January 22, 2010 by NYC76
Christianity: 2.1 billion

Islam: 1.5 billion

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

Buddhism: 376 million

primal-indigenous: 300 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 15 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 7 million

Jainism: 4.2 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 4 million

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

Tenrikyo: 2 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

Scientology: 500 thousand

Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, African Vodun, Zoroastrianism, Jainism, and Confucianism: all ANEDATE Islam. So if were respecting religions based on age………………………………….
08:58 January 22, 2010 by Uncle
Iraniboy.

I CHECKED your posts. You DO NOT condemn a thing. Maximum you can say "I do not agree the use of violence by this and that" then you always add "BUT" and start banging on about all the billions of innocent infants murdered without any reason by Israel and US.

Whereas in truth, muslims has managed to kill more than 4 million people in the past 20 years (Somalia, Sudan, Iraq and smaller conflicts combined).

They managed to raise the crime in the west exactly 120 times. They managed to break all rules of warfare that a modern world knew, by targeting ONLY civilians, kidnapping and suicide bombing.

So you can bang on about the awful Israel (which is a pearl swimming in a huge bucket of fecies, who are so barbaric that the world does not move an eyebrow whenever they execute thousands), but it is clear even to the above minister where the danger is coming from.

Thanks GOD for that.
14:49 January 24, 2010 by Iraniboy
@uncle

It's good that I don't agree with my Muslim counterparts who kill innocent people but you don't even want to disagree with your non-Muslim counterparts who kill innocent people! and you always jump up to support them with your ridiculous satsitiscs and claims. That's the difference between me and you! Thank God that my belief hasn't made me to turn a blind eye on what people do with the name of Islam.
23:28 January 25, 2010 by ENJOYLIFEVIDEOS
I'm sorry Sweden, but no country in the world has been able to control this problem...and you guys will NOT be able either. Every country that has Muslims has the risk that one/many of them, sooner or later, can become extremist and pose a BIG THREAT to that nation.

Due to the War in Iraq, you guys have opened the door to TROUBLE!!! The title of your article clearly says it "TICKING BOMB". It's not a matter of "IF", but a matter of "WHEN" your BOMB will go off...but trust me...it will! One thing is to be nice and another STUPID. You were stupid in accepting refugees. However, Sweden is YOUR land...SWEDISH is YOUR TONGUE, CUSTOMS, PEOPLE, etc. so you have to do something to defend it and protect it and NOW!!!

DEPORT any person and their families if suspected to have any links with extremists (even if they were born in Sweden...because a Muslims is first, always and ONLY a Muslim!!!), control/monitor their(all Muslims) Internet where abouts, phone calls, bank accounts and anything that can be checked for ties w/extremist activities! Do not allow Minarets and you just "maybe" keep the bomb ticking for a little while longer.

Good luck!...you'll need it!!!
14:22 January 28, 2010 by danceswithgoats
How does the US invasion of Iraq have anything to do with Islamic violence/extremism in Sweden?

How does the Israeli/Palestinian issue have anything to do with Islamic violence/extremism in Sweden?

The root cause of Islamic violence/extremism is found in the Koran. Connect the dots - Anti-semitism in Malmo - No Burka ban - Islamic extremism. If you look weak; you will be subjugated. Europe needs to wake up. Islam is filling the void of multi-cultural/moral relativism/nihilism.
15:27 January 29, 2010 by KipHamilton
Yes, the policies of the US have added to the problem. But it has gone far beyond that now. The growing threat of an ultra-conservative intolerant belief system increasing its influence in Europe is what is important now (and, NOT the race of the believers). I suggest reading the Koran, and even more importantly the Hadiths which document the life of Mohammed. The Koran is full of threats concerning Allahs punishment for non-believers, and the Hadiths document Mohammeds ordering stonings for adulterers, executions etc. If you want the institution of medieval Islamic laws in Sweden one day (run for cover gays and atheists) then by all means bend over backwards to tolerate this intolerant religion.
18:23 January 29, 2010 by ENJOYLIFEVIDEOS
The Bomb keeps on ticking...read this Swedish people...

http://www.thelocal.se/24456/20100119/

DO NOT ALLOW BURQAS either!!!
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