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Fuglesang survives homeopathic pill overdose

Fuglesang survives homeopathic pill overdose

Published: 07 Jul 2011 13:05 GMT+02:00
Updated: 07 Jul 2011 13:05 GMT+02:00

"We're risking our lives for science," wrote Fuglesang in an opinion piece for newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, signed by the organisation Vetenskap och Folkbildning (VoF), a non-profit organisation working towards promoting popular science education, and discrediting false science.

This act is an effort to get the inefficiency of homeopathic medicine, commonly used in Sweden today, on the agenda.

Fuglesang and nine others took ten times the recommended dose of homeopathic sleeping pill Coffea Alfaplex.

"Either we die, and for the first time the effect of homeopathy will be proven. Or we survive, in which case we expect Swedish politicians to rethink their stand on alternative medicine's use in healthcare," they wrote in Svenska Dagbladet.

Homeopathy is an alternative form of medicine based on the idea that the effect of a remedy grows stronger the more water the cure is diluted with.

According to the organisation, in Sweden homeopathic medicines must be diluted at least 10,000 times.

It's illegal to use these treatments against cancer and certain other physical diseases in Sweden today, but VoF feel that this ban ought to be extended.

"This is an important matter to debate, since the use of alternative medicine is so common in Sweden," Dan Larhammar, Professor of Neuroscience at Uppsala Universitet and active member of VoF, told The Local on Thursday.

The opinion piece lists the clinic Järnakliniken, outside of Stockholm and part of the patient choice programme Vårdval Stockholm, as one of the places where patients may be treated with anthroposophical medicines that do more harm than good.

"We hope the use of homeopathy will cease, seeing as how it's pure humbug. And above all, the state and country councils should not stand behind such humbug," said Larhammar to The Local.

A crowd of around one hundred curious visitors came to see Christer Fuglesang's overdose this afternoon.

"I feel just fine. I guess I feel neither better nor worse than just before taking this overdose," he told newspaper Svenska Dagbladet afterwards.

Clara Guibourg (clarabara@hotmail.com)

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Your comments about this article

14:15 July 7, 2011 by engagebrain
How it can be legal make health claims based on no evidence whatosoever ?

How can training be given and exams set in a non existent topic ?
14:49 July 7, 2011 by Aconite
Facts matter in medicine and science. Here are the FACTS about homeopathy:

Homeopathy is a 200-year-old system of medicine used successfully by over 200 million people worldwide. It has a laudable and extensively documented clinical record and there are literally hundreds of high quality, peer-reviewed basic science, pre-clinical and clinical studies showing its effects.

For more information on this system and the extensive research supporting efficacy, please visit

http://www.nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles-research
14:52 July 7, 2011 by ScepticsBane
These absurd protests against Homeopathy have happened elsewhere and are perfect examples of "scientism" - a pseudo scientific mindset which talks big about "science" and "evidence" but somehow manages to evade both in their big media "demonstrations". "Scientism", coined by chemist-Homeopath Lionel Milgrom, was discussed in his well known article "Beware Scientism's Onward March" and can be read here:

http://www.anh-europe.org/news/anh-feature-beware-scientism%E2%80%99s-onward-march

Rather than just acknowledge that Homeopathy contains some sort of, as yet unknown, curative effect, easily seen to be well above mere placebo, the "scientism" goons manage to ignore current scientific research, such as a well known experiment by researcher M. Ennis clearly showing that the Homeopathy-like dilutions in which all traces of the curative substance have been diluted away STILL shows biological effects as though the missing molecules were there (Journal of Inflammation Research Vol 53, Page 181). This experiment has been repeated and confirmed in several International Laboratories. Often quoted against her experiment by the scientism goon squad is a BBC Horizon documentary which supposedly "repeated" her experiment and got "negative" results. But when Ennis herself investigated, she learned that they had added a chemical not in her experiment which ruined the results. Needless to say, the TV documentary has never been published in any scientific journal. This is typical of the anti-Homeopathist goon squad "evidence".

They would have everyone believe that there is "nothing" in the Homeopathic high dilution remedies, that it is "just water". But as researcher and famed Materials scientist Dr. Rustum Roy noted amusingly, diamond and graphite are "just carbon" and yet, show drastically different properties based on the arrangements of their atoms. It is structure, not just molecular content, that determines properties. Homeopathy also has some support from Nobel prize winning scientists - see the article "Is Homeopathy Nonsense and Wny it May Not Be" at Brian Josephson's home page. And a recent Nobel winner, Luc Montagnier is in China researching his theories and criticizing the anti-intellectual climate of research, exemplified by the goon squadists and their protests.

There is much to criticize and question in Homeopathy, but public demonstrations by people who have no idea what it is all about and have never investigated the remarkable cures and treatments of Homeopaty, many of which have saved people's lives, are merely the intellectual equivalent of book burners designed more to kill research and, worse, to interdict and destroy your right to freedom of medical choice - an agenda which, unfortunately, reeks of corporatist entanglements. Let us have real "science" and real "evidence" investigate Homeopathy and await real results.
15:28 July 7, 2011 by urban stkhlm
How does an overdose prove anything? Except for the one nice effect of most (all?) homeopathic medicine - that an overdose will not harm you. Shouldn't Fuglesang take the recommended dose?
15:56 July 7, 2011 by proteasome
Hello! The only health risk is if Fuglesang drowns by inhaling the glass of water. Homeopathy or traditional method to take money. The claims that experimental evidence shows that homeopathy works is faulty and dishonest. Medical drug treatments are expensive enough without having the market drain peoples pockets for worthless tiny traces of chemicals.

The links below, repeatedly show experimental evidence that clear speaks against homeopathy. The accepted (weak) effects are all explained by non-medicinal factors, placebo.

Recent report by expert U.K. panel

link that explains report Homeopathy 'No Better Than Smarties'

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/02/22/uk-panel-calls-homeopathy-no-better-than-smarties/

Actual full documented report

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/45/45.pdf
16:37 July 7, 2011 by Shibumi
I already know I am going to regret trying to reason with someone who has chosen to post under a pseudonym which can be loosely translated to "person that causes misery or death to those who question/doubt", so this is for everyone else who may come across this discussion.

So ScepticsBane... what's it gonna be? You contend that there is strong scientific evidence supporting the effectiveness of homeopathy: "This experiment has been repeated and confirmed in several International Laboratories." which you claim has an "as yet unknown, curative effect, easily seen to be well above mere placebo"... yet you conclude with "Let us have real "science" and real "evidence" investigate Homeopathy and await real results." So which is it?

If you could stop cherry picking morsels of evidence that support your bias for a few minutes, you would understand that homeopathy was invented before the discovery of the molecule. Yes, it was preferable to some of the harsh "cures" available at the time (like leeches) as at least homeopathy did not in itself make things worse. That is because homeopathy can have no physiological effect as there are few, if any, molecules of active substance left in the finished product.

So after the discovery of the molecule, homeopathy proponents are left with only special pleading... supposedly it still works even though there are no molecules of active substance left because the water somehow "remembers" being in contact with the active molecules in the past and therefore retains some properties of the now absent molecules. So how does the water know to "forget" the properties of any toxic materials with which it was once in contact? And does this mean that when I drink a glass of water it very well could contain the "memory" of... say... Winston Churchill's urine?

I used to take homeopathy in the mistaken notion that it at least contained small but measurable amounts of something that might have a positive effect on my body. But when I finally looked into what homeopathy really is, reason and common sense told me that there is no way this can work... not any better than a placebo anyway.

So ScepticsBane, answer just one question please... how do you explain that the homeopathic sleeping remedy that Fuglesang and his cohorts took today had no effect on them whatsoever?
16:42 July 7, 2011 by donutwallah
This humbug is popular in the UK too, and peddled by high street chemists. I understand that one of the so-called princes is a big fan.
17:12 July 7, 2011 by markusd
"Homeopathy is an alternative form of medicine based on the idea that the effect of a remedy grows stronger the more water the cure is diluted with. "

So if I take a small portion of a homeopathic remedy and throw it in a swimming pool (or dilute it slowly or whatever), I should end up with a large amount of extremely potent stuff in the end?

Sound kind of like a chemical version of a perpetual motion machine.
17:18 July 7, 2011 by William Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha
I have some snake oil. Cures everything. Anyone want to buy some?
17:50 July 7, 2011 by Åskar
@Shibumi: "... contained small but measurable amounts of something that might have a positive effect on my body..."

It's actually the other way round. The "medicine" is made by diluting a substance that will cause the same symptoms as a known disease, not something that will make them go away.
18:05 July 7, 2011 by Shibumi
@Askar: ... yes this adds to the absurdity of homeopathy. Homeopathy purports that a substance that causes symptoms in healthy individuals can cure disease that causes the same symptoms in a sick person.... and then the substance is diluted to the point where you're not actually doing that!
19:00 July 7, 2011 by zircon
Suicide by overdose and survive is kind of glam.
19:50 July 7, 2011 by engagebrain
Aconite wrote Homeopathy is a 200-year-old system of medicine used successfully by over 200 million people worldwide. It has a laudable and extensively documented clinical record and there are literally hundreds of high quality, peer-reviewed basic science, pre-clinical and clinical studies showing its effects.

If this were true homeopathic medicine would have no problem in meeting the standards set for real medicines. It can't and they don't. As the brave volunteers will undoubtedly demonstrate.

Homeopathy is fraudulent.
20:27 July 7, 2011 by Central European
Well, if man i USA pissed a small portion of is urine to milions litres of water the ordinary peoples were shouting to to empty whole reservoir.

The right solution was to fullfill milions of small botles of "Homeopath gold fount "and to sell it to folls 10 dolars per little vial :D
20:43 July 7, 2011 by engagebrain
Given the total lack of active ingredients and the low cost of water, how do homeopaths justify charging more than nothing for their potions ?
21:26 July 7, 2011 by riose
How homeopathy works:

Bin Laden was buried in the sea ----> Earth's oceans are Al-qaeda.
22:08 July 7, 2011 by Nomark
This is what happens when you try to investigate the efficacy of a substance which in fact has no efficacy against a certain condtion. Eg testing a claim that drinking milk reduces the symptoms of arthritis.

(1) Different research groups do different studies under different conditions.

(2) Out of, say, 20 studies the vast majority will show no effect beyond placebo and a couple will give results which suggest that milk could have a positive effect beyond placebo for sufferers of arthritis.

(3) It will be impossible to draw definitive conclusions from these few positive studies since they are either badly designed (i.e. not double blinded so the placebo effect plays a role) or have poor statistical precision i.e. low sample size, meaning that a positive result was an unlikely fluke.

(4) The best designed studies (double blinded with high statistics) show no effect beyond placebo, as would be expected.

Consequently it would be irrational and dishonest for the dairy industry to pick the couple of studies which showed a possible effect, ignore the rest (in particular the reliable high quality studies), and claim their product treats arthritis. This is called cherry picking.

This is what has happened with homeopathic research. The homeopathic community claimed that their stuff works against a range of conditions. They were very keen that tests were carried out since they were confident the results would favour their claims. As the results came back it turned out that a couple showed a "possible effect" and the majority no effect beyond placebo. The high statistics and well designed studies showed no effect beyond placebo. The natural conclusion is that homeopathy doesn't work any better than a placebo as in the case of milk and arthritis. The homeopathy community didn't like this. They cherry picked the few poorly designed low statistics studies which showed a possible effect and made claims based on these. When challenged they squirmed a bit and said "ah, it doesn't matter anyway, we treat the patient not the condition and you can't measure that". This is strange since most patients go to homeopaths with very specific conditions they wish to have treated and homeopaths make claims that their potions treat certain conditions. Furthermore, even things like well being can be measured and tested against the placebo effect. The fact is that when their claims are tested homeopathy is found not to work. The reliable high statistics studies show no effect beyond placebo. If it did work it would be amazing and we'd have to rewrite the laws of chemistry. There's nothing wrong with that in principle but if you feel that a rewrite of the known laws of nature are needed you must to provide evidence. Unfortunately for the homepaths, that evidence is lacking.
22:35 July 7, 2011 by engagebrain
After 200 hundred years homeopaths have failed to come with any convincing evidence - if it works evidence is easy to produce.
01:33 July 8, 2011 by Luke R D
Someone's willing to go to these lengths to prove Homeopathy wrong?! Well, we could go on about how much better the money would be spent elsewhere, but to try and get homeopathy banned in Sweden would certainly benefit the big pharma companies....coincidence?
01:58 July 8, 2011 by engagebrain
Banning homeopathy would benefit patients.

Paying for cures that don't work is a waste of money and patients delay seeking effective treatment.

LukeRD - no conspiracy, just scientists telling it like it is.

Homoepathy has no scientific basis and does not work... except for homeopaths and the producers of junk medicine. If you need a conspiracy, try the homeopaths and junk medicine peddlers.
02:59 July 8, 2011 by Christy Redd
All these people have proven is that they know nothing about homeopathy. If they did know anything about it, they would know that the only remedy which will have an effect when taken is the one remedy chosen for the patient based on the totality of the patient's symptoms and his constitution. Taking any other remedy will have no effect all either positive or negative.

It should also be noted that there are NO homeopathic "sleeping pills". If a person wants to treat insomnia, he would have to consult with a homeopath who will chose the one most similar remedy for the patient, again based on the totality of his symptoms and constitution.

Anyone doubting the efficacy of homeopathics can read almost 200 studies published in 82 respected, peer-reviewed journals. They show that homeopathy works to produce significant and sometimes substantial health benefits. Some of those studies can be found at:

www.nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles-research

www.extraordinarymedicine.org (scroll down to "Homeopathy's Best Research")

http://avilian.co.uk/

One recent study shows that homeopathics kill breast cancer cell lines. It was published in the Int'l Journal of Oncology, February, 2010.

www.spandidos-publications.com/ijo/36/2/395

Homepathy is famous for its cures of chronic diseases like type 2 diabetes. For case records google "homeopathy cured cases" or see:

www.hpathy.com (search "Dr. Bhatia diabetes", "clinical cases", and "Ask the Doctor")
05:50 July 8, 2011 by Frank Lee
Is it any wonder the same people who believe the claims of homeopathy also believe the claims of the global warming fraternity?
06:48 July 8, 2011 by Nomark
Christy - you are either dishonest or exceptionally ill-informed.

Please do not quote peer reviewed studies unless you also survey the totality of the research and in particular the high quality, high statistics studies (see my earlier post ). Cherry picking the poor quality**, low statistics trials leads to the wrong conclusionsf. The fact is that the body of high quality research is conclusive in that homeopathy does *not* work beyond placebo.

** Poor quality trials i.e. well known and universal criteria for how an unbiased study *should* be performed. For example requiring a double blind process meaning that neither the practitioner nor the patient knows if they are receiving placebo. This stops the practitioner consciously or subconsciously giving the medicine a "boost" by giving the "real stuff" to people they think will anyway be getting better soon due to a self-limiting condition ending. It also allows a wholly unbiased way of studying the placebo effect. One is destined to get misleading results with poor quality trials which is why one should be careful about quoting them, even if you think they support your case.

And please please please stop this immoral sh*t about homeopathy doing something against cancer. Homeopaths have a history of implying that their water is effective against cancer. It is rightly illegal to claim that cancer can be cured by a substance without evidence which is why homeopaths only tend to hint at it (again without the evidence - at least not evidence that stands up to scrutiny and can and is reproduced). To quote such *research* and hint that you can fire a painless magic bullet against a terrible condition is *extremely* unethical.
08:30 July 8, 2011 by Nomark
@JoeB

Your post is somewhat strange. All medication and medical procedures have side effects, some of them serious, some not. A side effect of X-rays is possible cancer yet X-rays are carried out routinely and lives are consequently saved even if there is a small cancer risk. Drinking moderate amounts of water has no side effects - in that sense homeopathic medicines is safe though it is of no medicinal value when faced with a serious disease.

Side effects in conventional medicine are studied and the patient is allowed to make an informed choice as to whether he/she wishes to pursue a course of treatment given a certain risk. This is how people stay alive when they have serious illnesses - its the basis of the science-led medical revolution of the 19th and 20th century in which all manner of diseases were understood and cured and diagnostic techniques were pioneered.

Modern medicine is far from perfect in so many respects. However, on balance it works fantastically well - we can, for example, lead incredibly unhealthy lives yet still be kept alive so long that we can now no longer afford the pension costs.
09:35 July 8, 2011 by engagebrain
Homeopaths avoid double blind trials - the scientific gold standard. Their basis is (a) that half the patients receive the drug under test and half receive either a placebo or the best current treatment and (b) that the doctor who perscribes and assesses the patients does not know whether the patient in the control or test group and neither does the patient. This protocol eliminates all forms of bias. At this point homeopathy vaniishes.

If homeopathy worked it could easily be demonstrated in double blind trials.

That modern medicine is not perfect is hardly a secret, but with properly controlled trials medicine progressively eliminates ineffective treatments - by contrast no homeopathic remedy has every been withdrawn by homeopaths.

Homeopathy is big, and given the low cost of wate, and a very profitable, business. It makes claims to medical efficacy for which there is no evidence.
10:29 July 8, 2011 by Nomark
@Luke R D

As mentioned by engagebrain, homeopathy industry is, in fact, like Big Pharma. They are both large and highly profitable businesses.

Homeopathy doesn't work despite claims to the contrary. These claims btw are absolute disgraceful and grossly unethical. Homeopathy does not prevent malaria nor can it be used against cancer, any more than drinking a glass of water can. People can die because of this dangerous nonsense. *That's* why we're against it. To try to portray these evidence-based arguments against homeopathy as being somehow due to Big Pharma running scared is disingenuous and absolute nonsense.
12:01 July 8, 2011 by Shibumi
Thank you engagebrain and Nomark for your clear and calm explanations of the homeopathy fraud. I couldn't have said it better. The only thing I'd like to add is one of my favorite quotes (I don't know the author):

Q: You know what they call alternative medicine that has been proven safe and effective?

A: Medicine.
14:19 July 8, 2011 by tadchem
Unfortunately, human nature is such that once a belief is embraced people cleave to it in spite of all evidence to the contrary; once people's minds are made up, there is no changing them.

Demonstrations such as this that debunk dangerous beliefs that may prevent sick people from seeking efficacious medical care are useful if they prevent 'undecided' people from adopting wrong ideas.

As Galileo learned, in science sometimes the only way to expunge errors is to wait until those who believe in them have all died out.
15:10 July 8, 2011 by MichaelZWilliamson
Did you hear about the homeopath who drank distilled water? He died of an overdose.

Dear idiots: This does prove that "homeopathy is safe." It also proves that "homeopathy doesn't work." He didn't go to sleep AT ALL. And if you're claiming that there's "no such thing as a homeopathic sleeping medicine," then you're arguing with the homeopath who prepared this dose.

As was said above, the existence of molecules completely disproves homeopathy. You're even worse than the Creationists.
17:00 July 8, 2011 by Christy Redd
Readers here who are interested in more information about the homeopathic treatment of cancer will be interested in this recent study which concludes that homeopathy is superior to conventional cancer treatments.

www.gaia-health.com/articles-451/000482-homeopathy-better-outcome-cancer.shtml

Additionally, homeopathy is used to treat more German children with cancer than any other alternative medicine.

Banerji Clinic treats cancer patients in 72 countries around the world and 1,200 patients a day in its clinic and all with 70% benefit. In fact, Columbia University collaborated with Banerji in developing their Integrative Program for Children with Cancer.

Here's a case of a brain tumor cured with homeopathy:

www.pbhrfindia.org/index.php/Case-Studies/Cure-of-Brain-Tumor/Cure-of-Brain-Tumor.html
22:27 July 8, 2011 by Ann-Marie
How about letting people make their own decisions?! What works for one may not work for somebody else and vice versa.... The nerve of Fuglesang is just beyond ridiculous. Who died and made him king?! Just leave it be and mind your own business....
23:21 July 8, 2011 by Shibumi
@Christy Redd: you are dangerous. If anyone is taking your medical advice you may soon have a body count on your conscience.

See this list for a sampling of people harmed or killed by homeopathy: http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

@Ann-Marie: Fuglesang did make his own decision... to show the effects, or lack thereof, of homeopathic remedies. Who are you to say he shouldn't have? Who died and made you king? The nerve of anyone who would silence those who peacefully support reason, common sense and evidence is beyond ridiculous.
01:30 July 9, 2011 by Ann-Marie
@ shibumi: I'm not even going to stoop to your low level....
04:59 July 9, 2011 by engagebrain
Christy Redd

Your claim that water is a suitable treatment for cancer is dangerous and wrong.

It is morally no different from removing a sign saying 'bridge closed'.

Homeopathy only hurts the pockets of the healthy but becomes dangerous nonsense for someone who is seriously iii.
13:09 July 9, 2011 by Shibumi
@Ann-Marie: Yeah... I figured you wouldn't like anyone pointing out that you are not living up to your own standards. But I find your speaking out to say that someone else should not speak out to be quite entertaining.
14:47 July 9, 2011 by Nomark
@Ann-Marie

I am all for letting people make their own decisions. However, I want those to be informed decisions. It is extremely important that anyone contemplating homeopathic treatments be aware that :

(a) It doesn't work better than placebo

(b) the homeopathic industry routinely makes claims for efficacy which aren't true including dangerous claims about serious illnesses such as cancer and malaria.

It is your right to disagree with these points though I would like to see you dispute them with facts and peer reviewed works (but, remember, you need to quote the full body of research and not a few shoddy low stats trials).

Furthermore, its unclear if you're as appalled as I am about the immoral and dangerous claims regarding, eg, cancer. Can you clarify your position here ? Do you condemn unreseservedly the homeopaths who made these dangerous and wholly groundless claims ? After all, this is as bad as anything Big Pharma gets up to..
18:29 July 10, 2011 by ScepticsBane
Er, dey tuk a hole botel of dat remedy stuff and nuttin happened - dis proves it duz not woik.

Then again, the only thing it might prove is that, among "skeptics", idiocy loves company.
06:55 July 11, 2011 by Nomark
@ScepticsBane

You mention that sceptics ought to acknowledge that homeopathy has a curative effect beyond placebo.

This is nonsense. Pease don't pretend that research supports homeopathy - its the opposite. Despite many years and many studies (and much confidence among homeopaths), homeopathy and the placebo effect have been shown to be the same thing.
15:30 July 11, 2011 by ScepticsBane
To Nomark:

Did you read the link I gave, an article by a CHEMIST and Homeopath named Lionel Milgrom who attacks the intellectual foundations (if we may dignify the arguments of the skeptics by calling them such) of Homeopathy and Alternative medicine skeptics and in which he lists SIGNIFICANT research in favor of Homeopathy? Did you read that? No? I didn't think so. Here is the link, now you go read that:

http://www.anh-europe.org/news/anh-feature-beware-scientism%E2%80%99s-onward-march

There! wasn't that interesting? Did you read THIS PART and I quote:

"Baum and Ernst then describe homeopathy as "….among the worst examples of faith-based medicine that gathers shrill support of celebrities and other powerful lobbies in place of a genuine and humble wish to explore the limits of our knowledge using the scientific method ….". [8] Apart from astounding hypocrisy (the pharmaceutical industry constitutes one of the most powerful lobbying organisations on the planet), Baum and Ernst repeatedly cite the 2005 Lancet meta-analysis by Shang et al [10] as the 'genuine and humble wish to explore the limits of our knowledge…', etc. They put this analysis forward as conclusive 'proof' that homeopathy is no more than placebo. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, this paper was severely criticised on methodological grounds by several independent authors, [11-14] and contains significant scientific flaws. "

Did you see the part that reads "CONTAINS SIGNIFICANT SCIENTIFIC FLAWS"?

Be sure to read Ludtke's Journal of Clinical Epidemiology Article about it in which we learn that the "hundreds" of tests got boiled down to a grand total of eight (8 !!) tests upon which their erroneous conclusion that Homeopathy = placebo was based. Yes, eight.

You go ahead and look some of those other references - last time I looked, the Journal Pulmonary Pharmacology & Therapeutics did not seem to condone publishing nonsense. Then, when you come back and tell us how this is nonsense and how articles in scientific peer reviewed journals that SUPPORT HOMEOPATHY are somehow a pretension, we can question exactly who is proposing "nonsense".
09:04 July 12, 2011 by Nomark
@Scepticsbane

Writing in UPPER CASE doesn't strengthen your argument, quite the opposiet in fact. Ending sentences with exclamation marks is also equally ineffective!! So there!!!

If you wish to read a dissection of those studies and a review of the lack of efficacy of homeopathy then read Ben Goldacre's book "Bad Science". He provides an excellent amd overview. You may also read my earlier post in which I explain how false positives naturally emerge but are washed out once one stops cherry picking.
14:17 July 12, 2011 by ScepticsBane
To NOMARK !

"Writing in UPPER CASE doesn't strengthen your argument, quite the opposiet in fact. Ending sentences with exclamation marks is also equally ineffective!! So there!!! "

They were and ARE necessary for those who talk about "pretension" and "nonsense" but are unwilling and/or UNABLE to comment when genuine research by genuine scientists appearing in GENUINE PEER REVIEWED journals is cited in favor of Homeopathy.

Likewise, having IGNORED the article citation by quite genuine chemist and Homeopathy Lionel Milgrom, I see reference is being made to the science journalist (indeed a Dr., yes but not a scientist) Goldacre. This diversion is disallowed.

The reader will note this typical diversion from so called skeptics who are strident, insulting and unceasing in their attacks on Homeopathy yet somehow remain silent when confronted with genuine evidence, scientific journals, scientists and science in its favor - not to mention Doctors using it and patients benefiting enormously from it.

Having had their claims of Homeopathy = placebo exposed by repeated condemnation of the shoddy Shang Lancet 2005 meta-analysis, the skeptic then resorts to claims of "strawman", or "cherry-icking" or other pejorative innuendo rather than dare confront the actual facts supportive of Homeopathy.

As Milgrom has exposed and espoused, these pseudo opinions are neither rational nor with basis in fact but instead represent a logico-positivistic PAVLOVIAN like response to any favorable research or opinion supporting Homeopathy. The skeptics' ZOMBIE like mental reflexes, more the result of susceptibility to corporate conditioning and media manufacture than to actual rational understanding, are activated at the mere mention of scientific basis.

Oh no NOMark, the CAPS are very much needed to WAKE UP the zombie mentality and perhaps help establish some re-connect with the real world in which the patients can and do benefit from Homeopathy, continue to use it, successfully in numerous major countries and have been doing so for quite some time. That the skeptics attempt to narrow the debate to a single system of testing, which was actually designed for pharmaceuticals which DO have molecules of themselves present in their drugs , speaks volumes for the lack of substance behind the arguments of the anti-Homeopathists as does the pathetic attempt to acknowledge its curative effects but then pout "oh no!! it's just the placebo effect".
08:36 July 13, 2011 by Nomark
@scepticsbane

I normally write rebuttals of posts such as yours. However, having read it carefully I think it acts as its own rebuttal.

If anyone wishes to discuss peer-reviewed research into homeopathy, Cochrane reviews and the dishonest practice of cherry-picking data, I'd be happy to join in. As someone who writes (and reviews) peer-reviewed journal articles for a living I can write from experience.

If the intention is to cut and paste quotes from people and ignore conclusions from the complete body of research then its probably not worth my time.
18:49 July 13, 2011 by ScepticsBane
To Nomark:

Unimpressive response, we're STILL waiting for a single word of response from you regarding chemist Lionel Milgrom's article "Beware Scientism's Onward March", available at THIS link and many others:

http://www.anh-europe.org/news/anh-feature-beware-scientism%E2%80%99s-onward-march

Milgrom, is an ACCOMPLISHED RESEARCH SCIENTIST WITH OVER 70 PAPERS PUBLISHED IN CHEMICAL JOURNALS as well as a practiced Homeopath: But then as I mentioned before, some skeptics are not interested in the real world, real science, real doctors, real patients and real illness, and seem to want to hide behind their laboratory statistics, carefully tallied by the likes of the Shang meta-analysis which supposedly "proved" that Homeopathy=placebo.

Nomark states:

"As someone who writes (and reviews) peer-reviewed journal articles for a living I can write from experience. "

What's this? An APPEAL TO AUTHORITY??

"If the intention is to cut and paste quotes from people and ignore conclusions from the complete body of research then its probably not worth my time."

Well....EXCUSE US !!! Actually the INTENTION was to get you to discuss and perhaps confirm the criticisms of Lionel Milgrom in his article regarding the distortions of Homeopathy and other forms of Alternative Medicine by the one sided anti-intellectual cult known as "scientism" - which is a pseudo-scientific bunch of pretensions coupled with delusions of grandeur. Observe the contemptuous dismissals, the insults, and the AVOIDANCE of serious debate on key issues. All quite typical of the "scientism-ist".

Very well NOMARK, it is clear you do not wish to threaten your belief system by reading or commenting on the Milgrom article, and so it is I who will waste no more of my time on you !
08:34 July 14, 2011 by Nomark
@ScepticsBane

My belief system is not threatened in the slightest. If homeopathy can be proven to work I'll believe it. However, despite many attempts to the contrary, it can't be proven to work.

Regarding the "appeal to authority", its nothing of the sort. Its simply a statement that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to (a) publishing and reviewing scientific data and (b) the value of global reviews of topics when it comes to weeding our poorly designed surveys.

Finally, getting agitated lessens your case, it doesn't strengthen it.
07:59 July 27, 2011 by Uggla
If herbal remedies do not work then why do they make most medicines out of plants?
22:44 July 31, 2011 by Shibumi
Homeopathy is NOT herbal remedies. Homeopathy does NOT contain measurable amounts of plants/herbs or anything else but sugar and water. Those herbal remedies that are proven to have an effect are studied, extracted, refined, carefully and thoroughly tested for effectiveness and safety and proper dosage and then made available as ... guess what.... medicine. But this process has nothing to do with homeopathy.
16:06 September 25, 2011 by DelH
The only point that Fuglesang has made is to confirm the non-toxicity of homeopathy... one of the claims of homeopathic practitioners. Anyone who knows anything about homeopathy will tell you that you can't overdose on homeopathic remedies. Whether you take the recommended "dosage" or take the entire bottle you are taking a single dose. It will have the same effect. Repeated use of a homeopathic remedy might have a harmful effect, but not a toxic one.

Nice publicity stunt, but Fuglesang, not homeopathy is the con here. Show me where homeopathy ever claimed you can overdose? Every homeopath will tell you the opposite.

Personally, I became convinced that homeopathy works after a visit to France (1/3 of doctors practice it). I had injured my neck and was prescribed valium as a muscle relaxant and Tylenol No.3 (with codeine) for the pain. It hardly worked and I had run out of pills. I went to the pharmacist in rural France, hoping to get a few pills until I could get a prescription from a French doctor. The pharmacist recommended some homeopathic Arnica. It didn't do anything for the first 2 days, But by the end of the second day, the pain went away completely...for 5 days...then it returned. I repeated it continuously, with the same reaction, until I returned to Canada. When I started to learn about homeopathy I discovered that Arnica was effective for about 7 days. Placebo effect?

During that trip I was surprised when the veterinary doctor came to the farm I was on and treated the dairy herd with homeopathic medicine for urinary tract infections that had reduced the herd's dairy production to about 15% of normal. 2 days later it was 90%. After 5 days, back to 100%.
18:45 September 27, 2011 by Oliver D
How incredible that somebody of scientific disposition, such as Christer Fuglesang, can be dumb enough to think that a whole bottle of homoeopathic pills represents an overdose. Sad.

DeIH is right to highlight the benefits derived by animals. They don't lie, deceive, or use fancy words, or at least, mine never did over many years of successful use of homoeopathy on dairy cows and their offspring. They are not bound up with theory. They respond to forces which we cannot always appreciate or understand. It is surely time we (so-called clever humans) stretched our boundaries of learning, rather than ridiculing those who challenge the orthodoxy. Isn't that how all scientific discoveries have happened?
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