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'Doctors can recommend homeopathy': court

'Doctors can recommend homeopathy': court

Published: 24 Sep 2011 09:46 GMT+02:00
Updated: 24 Sep 2011 09:46 GMT+02:00

Sweden's Supreme Administrative Court (Högsta förvaltningsdomstolen) are opening for doctors to recommend homeopathic cures for patients.

However, the Swedish Medical Association (Läkarförbundet) remain unconvinced by the court's ruling, and want doctors to state clearly that homeopathic drugs have not been scientifically proven effective.

The controversial debate began when a doctor who recommended a homeopathic cure to a patient was put on probation by the Medical Responsibility Board (Hälso- och sjukvårdens ansvarsnämnd - HSAN).

Now, an indicative court ruling from the Supreme Administrative Court has torn up the probation sentence.

The court ruled instead that the patient was not exposed to any danger, and that the doctor used scientific knowledge when it was necessary, reported Sveriges Radio (SR).

Marie Wedin, chairwoman of the Swedish Medical Association, clarified the association's stance on the matter to news agency TT:

"We believe treatment should be evidence-based, and evidence has shown that the absolute majority of homeopathic cures have not been proven effective."

Wedin emphasised that she did not know the details of this particular case, such as the drugs involved, or which other treatment the doctor used parallel to the homeopathic cure.

Part of a doctor's duties, apart from curing and easing pain, involve comforting patients, noted Wedin.

Occasionally patients themselves wish to try homeopathic cures, and in such cases she suggests that the doctor act as a sounding board that doesn't necessarily have to say no.

"As long as the doctor is careful to point out that they personally doesn't put trust in its efficiency, and that there isn't any evidence to support it," she said.

TT/The Local/cg (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

11:16 September 24, 2011 by Jamtjim
Dear oh dear, whatever next? Will they be recommending witch doctors or spitting into the mouth of a frog under a full moon? Why not, both are as effective as homoeopathy.....
11:33 September 24, 2011 by Grokh
how about listing all the homeopathic threatments that they verify and allow instead of opening the door to everything.

some people might react better to some tea instead of a pill but that doesnt mean mixing some herbs will cure cancer -_-x
12:22 September 24, 2011 by Taxlady
The option of seeking out this type of health care has been going on in Canada for decades. It is part of the socialist health care system and many users prefer it.
12:24 September 24, 2011 by proteasome
Much Ado About Nothing
12:28 September 24, 2011 by jacquelinee
In many instances, modern medicine is directed towards "the cure" once a health issue arises. Homeopathic medicine in many instances is directed towards preventing an issue from arising. A great example of this would be echinacea (purple cornflower) drops that can be taken immediately when the throat feels a little sore to prevent strep throat and colds. Honey with lemon for a sore throat is also a very familiar wholistic remedy. Valarian root capsules can help induce sleep for those with insomnia rather than a heavy chemical sleeping pill. I am not speaking of ground Rhino tusk, shark fin or dried bear testicles and the likes of this. But many plants have naural healing properties. Homeopathic medicine used in conjuction with modern medical treatments are beneficial. The key with BOTH is to be treated intelligently and safely.
12:33 September 24, 2011 by Tysknaden
In Germany this homeopathic stuff is officialy considered as not really functioning. It works like a prayer: the wishful thinking does start selfhealing by the autoimmunsystem, makes feel better on a psychological level, sometimes. Used for curing severe diseases, homeopathy can be dangerous for life.

It is a way to sell cheap stuff for big money. It abuses the hopes of desperate people.

Praying or having a nice bath, positive thinking, giving and receiving tender love, listening to inspiring music, dancing, having sport, making walks, - holidays for the soul, in short, - are helpful, where homeopathy can help. In cases these doings are useless, homeopathy becomes useless, too - and kills you, eventually.
13:26 September 24, 2011 by Tysknaden
@Marylinvossavant: It is really not that important, from which country this wondercure comes from, don't you think? The main problem is the crazy idea of water remembering substances. Water remembers nothing. Water has no memory. There is a certain molecule in it - or not.

The dangerous thing is, this hocuspocus prevents people from going for medical help. And the cynical promise of curing hopeless cases, some of this witchdoctors are giving to desperate people.
13:26 September 24, 2011 by Opinionfool
The English novel "The End of Mister Y" has a description of homeopathy and of the preparation of these dilutions. Isn't it the case that the solutions are so diluted that it is the "memory" of the water molecules and their interaction with the supposed "active" ingredient that effects the cure? At the quantum level this "memory" may be imparted but the concentrations are so low as to make it implausible to the rational person.

In England they have homeopathic hospitals some have the title Royal. The Queen of England is reputed to have a homeopatchic doctor available to treat her. Friends claim to have received homeopathic treatment under the English National Health System.

Homeopathy may work as its proponents believe, it is also possible that those who have been helped by it are actually being helped by the placebo effect. Giving them a phial of pure distilled water or distilled Aquavit could well prove just as efficacious to placebo positive responders.

As I type this I hear the words of the 1960s hit, by English comedy group The Scaffold, "Lily the Pink". Seems to describe homeopathy quite efficaciously.
14:51 September 24, 2011 by Svensksmith
Herbal medicines, which are sometimes lumped under the heading of homoepathic, can be very effective and a safe alternative to drug therapies. And sometimes they don't do a thing.

Prescription drugs can work wonders at times but often cause undesireable side effects.

It is best to consider both options and see what works best for you.
15:00 September 24, 2011 by Jamtjim
In every impartial test ever conducted on homoeopathy has either not proved it to work or else proved it not to work. When every study which has claimed to show positive results regarding homoeopathy have been investigated closer they have been shown to be either systematically flawed or else deliberately faked. However the burden of proof is on those advocating it's efficacy not the other way round and it is something they have emphatically never done.

Whether anyone believes this nonsense is not really the issue. If you want to shell out your hard earned on what is nothing more than overpriced water is up to you. The issue is rather the ethics of a doctor recommending what amounts to no more than witch-doctory to trusting patients asking for his advise. The other issue is the idea of selling something under false pretences. Real medicines have to be thoroughly and rigorously tested before they can be sold. Homoeopathic remedies should be subject to the same.

To anyone out there who believes in this lunacy, I have some lovely magic beans for sale.....
15:16 September 24, 2011 by space2
homeopathy=placebo

And that's all it is to it. Scientifically proven, that it CANNOT work (at least those crazy 200C and 200D dillutions). People might think it work, because they want to believe in it. I know a doctor, who when sees the patient will be happy only when he/she will get some pills, she prescibes "acid ascorbic". So the patient will be happy, will think the pills are really good... and a little bit of vitamine C doesn't hurt ;-)
15:47 September 24, 2011 by jacquelinee
Many modern medicines originated from homeopathic roots. My grandmother had a remedy that was passed down from generations to her and then down to me. She used stale bread (the more stale, the better it seemed to work) dampened with milk and then placed over any open sore with signs of infection. A new poultice was applied 2ce daily and within 2 days usually the infection was either gone or well on it's way. Sounds crazy, but not so much, when you consider that very stale bread usually has mould formation. Mould, it was found to contain the foundation enzymes used to create penicillin.

* mvs-see below

Many ancient tribal remedies involving the use of plant extracts have proven valuable to modern medicines. Aspirin, for example, comes from the pithy core of a tree. Although some may be a placebo, and some just crazy, like bear claw??? much homeopathic medicine is a valid treatment and the various organic essenses may be the forefather of a cure for some disease that might be discovered in the future.

(MVS- in case you want to re-read it again by someone else--penicillin was discovered in 1928, by Alexander Fleming and produced for medical use 12 years later by Australian Howard Florey and German refugee Ernst Chain ........http://history1900s.about.com/od/medicaladvancesissues/a/penicillin.htm)
15:47 September 24, 2011 by MarSi
space2,

If it is placebo I'm happy that my children have been cured by this "placebo" for years now.

Actually when one starts to think, one might have no need for medicine at all (doesn't matter, traditional or homeopathy).

First I went from traditional to homeopathy. Now we don't need any at all.
15:56 September 24, 2011 by Jamtjim
Jacquelinee you need to research the difference between Herbal Remedies some of which work and make up a part of modern medicine and homoeopathy which involves the repeated dilution of substances into implausibly small volumes and which has been repeatedly shown to be ineffectual.
16:12 September 24, 2011 by jacquelinee
@ Jamtjim

Yes, you are right. Sorry. Often the two go hand in hand, But I'll opt for the full strength version ;-) I 'm a bit let down though, I was actually thinking herbal alternatives may finally be getting the recognition they deserve.
16:21 September 24, 2011 by Jamtjim
MarSi if you are giving your kids homoeopathic remedies instead of proven medical ones then your gullibility and naivety are potentially putting them in danger.
17:54 September 24, 2011 by Opinionfool
@jacqueline

Fleming was the first westerner to discover the action of anti-biotics but remedies based on penicillin and other airb-borne spores had been used in China and other civilisations several millennia earlier. Fleming was simply the first to document it in the (western) scientific literature.
18:25 September 24, 2011 by Jamtjim
"I have read that some of the most famous and influential people in the world, including pop stars, politicians, footballers and even Prince Charles, all use homeopathic remedies."

Hold the front page! Forget evidence, scientific method, repeatability and falsifiability homoeopathy must be true because the font of all knowledge otherwise known as the chinless wonder Prince Charles believes in it!

So such luck sweet cheeks; the truth is not democratic! It matters not how many pop stars and footballers (not usually demographics usually associated with high mental abilities) or politicians think it works, ALL the evidence indicates that it doesn't. There really is no debate about it any more. No proper evidence has ever been presented to back up the claims make by the homoeopathic quacks whereas plenty of evidence indicates that it is instead not better than the placebo offered by a vitamin C or sugar tablet. The real question is instead why people still believe in this blatant nonsense?

"If you are so sure that it is hocus pocus, why don't you claim the one million dollars prize offered by James Randi (Horizon TV program from BBC) who is so convinced that homeopathy will not work, that he has offered $1m to anyone who can provide convincing evidence of its effects. If you succeed, you will not only be $1m richer - you will also force scientists to rethink some of their fundamental beliefs."

Erm, you what? In order to win the money, wouldn't I have to show that homoeopathy works? As is so obviously doesn't how could I win the prize?

"The placebo effect is a well-documented medical phenomenon. Often, a patient taking pills will feel better, regardless of what the pills contain, simply because they believe the pills will work. Doctors studying the placebo effect have noticed that large pills work better than small pills, and that colored pills work better than white ones."

Yep this is the point, homoeopathy IS placebo!!

If you are still willing to believe anything, I still have some magic beans left just dying to a gullible idiot to pay me 500:- a pop for them. Just PM me! Lets face it, if you will pay for homoeopathy, then you will quite likely buy anything and Princess Di was a big fan of them....
18:32 September 24, 2011 by AnnicaE
One man's medicin, another man's poison?
22:01 September 24, 2011 by Jamtjim
"it is because it has proven to work for some of the most famous and influential people in the world, including pop stars, politicians, footballers, etc."

Wrong! Homoeopathy has NEVER been PROVEN to work EVER! Get it? Just because a load of "famous" people believe that it has for them just serves to show us how apt people are apt to attribute a natural phenomena such as placebo to nonsense such as homoeopathy and witchcraft!

"Beautiful. That is Al Gore's motto every time he is confronted about his lies about global warming. No more debate, no more debate."

No, no, the debate can restart once proper evidence is provided to support homoeopathy.... you will forgive me if I don't hold my breath! In the mean time, all the evidence ever provided has been shown to be either inaccurate or even faked.

Please don't lecture me on critical thinking whilst at the same time believing crackpot mumbo jumbo and supporting them with flawed arguments from the inferred authority of a few airheads.

"Jamtjin does not believe in homeopathy. Everybody else is stupid."

Or more accurately, "There is no evidence for homoeopathy. Jamtjim does not believe in homoeopathy as there is no evidence for it. Everyone who believes in something despite their being no evidence for it is stupid."

"Placebo or not, the point is that thousand in the world get cured with it."

If people get "cured" by anything it is placebo and not the ineffectual witches brews they take as remedies. Placebo is a well documented phenomena and is part of main stream medicine. Any effects from homoeopathy are due to and indistinguishable from placebo. In other works, placebo works, homoeopathy doesn't.

"Your last comment only shows your lack of respect to a person who died tragically and it shows, once more, that you are the biggest consumer of your magic beans."

Actually, no it doesn't, it shows a lack of respect for you who tries to uses the beliefs of a few celebrities as evidence to support for her medical beliefs. I could have used any one as an example living or dead as an example. I chose Diana at random but in fact it was rather a good choice as I would have struggled to find a more brainless and imbecilic character who's authority I could lampoon!
00:14 September 25, 2011 by William Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha
Homeopathy is a con. It's water, nothing but water.
00:59 September 25, 2011 by David S
If homeopathy worked then we'd all be in serious trouble drinking tap water.

If you really believe it works, then next time you go out to a bar, ask for your whiskey/beer/whatever diluted down to nothing but water and see how drunk you get.
01:09 September 25, 2011 by space2
@David S: LOL! Very good point! +1

@William Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha: Once my wife got some homeopathic pills for my kids. Recently, after reading more into it, I was curious so checked out what they have in it. It was sacharin (or something similar sweetener)... no wonder the kid liked it... now we eat the remaining pills all, instead of godis ;-)

Btw, someone did really brought up the topic of global warming, suggesting that it's not true?
02:59 September 25, 2011 by bcarroll
Instead of being for or against homeopathy, how about going with what the data say? As far as I know, most (I dare say all, and echinacea is one of them) homeopathic "cures" or treatments are crap. If a person has controlled, double blind studies that say otherwise (especially if they have been replicated) I would maybe say otherwise. Some empiricism and the scientific method with your valerian root, anyone?
03:59 September 25, 2011 by Christy Redd
These are the facts about homeopathy: It is a venerable, 200 year-old system of medicine proven safe and effective in clinical work over many, many decades and in studies. It is the second most used system of medicine in the world today (not the second most used alternative system of med) with upwards of 500 million users and 1/2 million practitioners most of whom are M.D.'s. Its use grows by at least 10% around the world every year because it's safe, effective and inexpensive.

There are literally 100's of studies showing h'pathy produces significant to substantial health benefits and also that those health benefits last many years. Some of those studies can be seen at:

www.nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles-research

http://avilian.co.uk/

For a study done by the prestigious M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, Texas U., showing h'pathy kills breast cancer cell lines see:

www.spandidos-publications.com/ijo/36/2/395

It is the second study done by M.D. Anderson to show h'pathy kills cancer cells (without damaging other cells or destroying the patient's immune system).

It has been proven safe for infants, children, pregnant women and nursing mothers.

http://homeopathyresource.wordpress.com/2009/01/05/extensive-study-concludes-homeopathic-remedies-and-treatment-are-safe/

For a little of the science behind h'pathy, see:

www.extraordinarymedicine.org

H'pathy is famous for its cures of chronic diseases such as type 2 diabetes. To see case records google "homeopathy cured cases" and see:

www.hpathy.com (search "Dr. Bhatia diabetes", "clinical cases", "Ask the Doctor")

To see case records of cures of brain tumors/cancer, see:

www.pbhrfindia.org/index.php/cure-of-brain-tumor-casestudy-1

www.pbhrfindia.org/index.php/cure-of-brain-tumor-casestudy-2

www.pbhrfindia.org/index.php/case-studies

My personal experience of many years of homeopathic treatment for chronic and acute illness and injuries is that it has been so successful that it is my primary form of medicine. It was only through homeopathy that I was able to recover from the effects of two disabling head injuries and chronic insomnia. With homeopathy I can head off bronchitis, heal sore throats and colds quickly, get rid of warts (if treated with h'pathy they never come back), decimate poison ivy without topical lotions and steroids, and much more.

The Swedish people most assuredly should have the right to know what h'pathy can do and to use it.
05:31 September 25, 2011 by Gamla Hälsingebock
Homeopathy...Yay!

Recreational drugs and alcohol...after a while you don't even care if you are sick.

No medical bills and Dr's saying you should not do that...what do they know?

Hic!
06:44 September 25, 2011 by engagebrain
Homeopathy is no more effective than a placebo and much more expensive. For obvious reasons the products are dirt cheap to produce.

If homeopathy worked it could be demonstrated easily in double bling trials - in a hundred years of trying there is no credible demonstration that homeopathy works.

There is no scientiific basis for homeopathy and if a doctor does not understand this they should be kept well away form patients.
07:15 September 25, 2011 by Douglas Garner
I am glad about this! With this ruling, doctors are more likely to refresh or increase their knowledge of homeopathic treatments, and patients are more likely to be open about alternative methods they are already using.

Many herbal treatments interfere with, or interact badly with prescription medications. The more the doctor understands about what goes in or on your body the more likely you are to get the treatment and advice you really need!
09:41 September 25, 2011 by Opinionfool
@Christy Redd

Homeopathy "is the second most used system of medicine in the world". Really? Compared to what? Compared to where?

Almost 1.5billion Chinese (in main land China) with a large proportion of them using Chinese herbal medical methods. The rest of the world using western "scientific" medical methods. I don't see how homeopathy can claim to be second. I don't see how it claims 500 million users either. WikiPedia has some anecdotal data on the use of homeopathy in the western world. In England it seems that in the last 50 years most of the once exclusive homeopathy hospitals have been closed down with the one remaining now dealing with all forms of alternative treatments.

The figures simply don't support the claim.
10:21 September 25, 2011 by salalah
@Marilyn vos Savant:

Is your brain KAPUT?
10:28 September 25, 2011 by Jamtjim
@Christy Redd

Sorry you are wrong here. Whilst homoeopaths are constantly producing claims attempting support the efficacy of their potions, whenever these claims are studied further and in a proper scientific manner they have been shown 100% of the time (that every single instance) to be flawed and in many cases deliberately faked by your venerable homoeopaths. They have never have been shown to produce results distinguishable from placebo hence the controversy.

Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been tested and shown to work? Medicine, that's what! The reason, that homoeopathy is not classed as medicine is that it is totally 100% ineffectual no matter how many wierdos and crackpots naively believe in it or invested interest organisations lie about it. Now why would an organisation making millions out of conning the gullible want to publish faked, flawed and inaccurate studies supporting their selling water at a premium? The fact that they still promote these claims despite the proof of their invalidity is shameful and places them alongside faith healer, witch doctors and other con artists.

As for you Maryilyn von Savant, once again you demonstrate your shameful lack of ability to discuss by simply writing KAPUT after ever point countering yours. Obviously you are inexperienced in critical thinking as once again you have used the flawed argument from authority but instead of using celebrities you now use the no doubt well intentioned post from Christy as authority to base your quackery on. Bad luck darling, argument doesn't work like that, so I take it as read that you have ceded yours. Show me just one peer reviewed and published scientifically studied and endorsed paper to the same standard and rigour as mainstream medicine and we can resume. Until then you can sleep easily safe in the knowledge that, homoeopathy is not going to harm you ... indeed it is not going to do ANYTHING to you (except perhaps make you urinate slightly more) as is is simply and only water.

And but the way as every molecule of water is estimated to have been through the human body a number of times, how come we all haven't been "cured" of urination and defecation?
12:18 September 25, 2011 by space2
@Christy Redd

I just googled that Texas university research paper... and it seems it was not written by real scientists. Check this out: http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/14/a-giant-leap-in-logic-from-a-piece-of-bad-science/

Also just read the homeopathy related articles on Wikipedia, especially the part which details the scientific part (e.g. where it PROVES that a 200C dillution actually COULD NOT HAVE any atom from the original substance... and there is no such thing as "memory" in molecues.... otherwise (as one of the previous posters mentioned it) just think what does the tap water remembers (the one you drink every day))
14:46 September 25, 2011 by Jamtjim
"Homeopathic remedies do really work."

No, they do not!

"There are some problems in which homeopathy is the best alternative,"

No there is not!

"Well, the modern medicines of today are the refinements of homeopathic ones, aren't they?"

No there are not!

"let me tell you what Richard P. Feynman (Nobel Prize in Physics) wrote about the memory of water theory: "

I very much doubt that he actually said this, and even if he did then he was mistaken. Even great scientists make mistakes, they are after all human as well! If you would like to provide a source for this quote, I will gladly let you know which it was. I'm guessing you won't!

"Sorry, but homeopathy is the second most widely used system of medicine in the world."

No it isn't! It is not medicine, but rather naive and gullible and most of all ineffectual belief.

"Its growth in popularity in the United States has been around 25 to 50 percent a year throughout the last decade."

Which just goes to show that stupid people will believe stupid things and desperate people will believe even more stupid things!

"He is dogmatic and you will never change his stubborness."

If I am dogmatic then it is with respect to a will to believe as many true things as possible whilst at the same time disbelieving as many false ones. I believe things due to evidence, and disbelieve them due to lack of evidence or in the case of homoeopathy, evidence against.

"One more bantamweight trying to debate with a heavyweight."

Indeed, but which is which?
15:44 September 25, 2011 by Tysknaden
@Marylinvossavant: I really don't want to become declared "kaputt". And my answer to the theories and "facts" you obviously believe in - would force you to do so. Who ever you are, I like your comments, and it doesn't matter for me, if I am of the same opinion, or not, - I enjoy reading them! Maybe, I am really kaputt.
15:45 September 25, 2011 by Jamtjim
So no source for your Feynman quote then? No surprise there as like I said, I doubt he ever made it! I do not claim to be better than anyone (well almost anyone) but I would depute a nonsensical claim made by absolutely anyone regardless of reputation and especially if that nonsensical claim was made outside of their area of expertise!

Well done, three separate arguments from authority including one likely falsified quote followed by gratuitous name calling all indicating that you cannot substantiate your argument. As a scientific issue the on debate homoeopathy is over, as is the debate here now you have once again ceded. You can't provide evidence homoeopathy works as there is none. You cannot provide a source for your claim for authority because it is untrue. You instead call me names to divert attention from your abject failure to address the issues raised here. You loose deary, but please feel free to come back to me once you learn to reason!
16:06 September 25, 2011 by David S
HOMEOPATHY DOES NOT EQUAL HERBAL REMEDIES!!

Seems to be a lot of people here who think herbs, such as echinacia, are homepathic. They are not - completely different system. Herbs have been used for medicinal purposes for thousands of years, and many modern medicines are based on active substances originally isolated from herbs.

The alleged Feynman quote appears to be a mis-attribution of a webpage by a homeopathic practioner where the statement is made *after* a quote by Feynman.

Homeopathic remedies are water (if liquid) or sugar (if tablets). That's it. It was "developed" in the 1790s by Samuel Hahnemann. Homeopathic remedies are not completely useless. They are excellent for triggering the placebo effect, and the liquid versions are also very effective at treating dehydration.
19:14 September 25, 2011 by Opinionfool
@MvS of yes of course because some Americans are taking it up it must be the second most popular form of medicine. Neglecting the greater numbers of Chinese herbal medice users and the western scientific form of medicine. Use some of that common sense that you like to bandy about in your other comments. The numbers simply do not stack up for homeopathy in second place.
23:07 September 25, 2011 by Opinionfool
@MvS Oh I admit openly to being an opinionated fool. But on the contrary we manage to dodge dodgy humour. And there's nothing worse than a humour that doesn't humorous.
03:26 September 26, 2011 by littleG
Mainstream medicine was afraid, is afraid and will be afraid of homeopathy as they see that there is not much money to be made in practicing homeopathy. The treatment is simple and medicines are cheap so less revenue and profit. Also all these medical association are indirectly funded and controlled by big pharmaceutical companies who have lot of profits at stake and hate homeopathy.
08:05 September 26, 2011 by redfish
@Jamtjin, David and all :

The problem is that homeopathy as it exists today is largely reactionary. Much of what was once advocated in homeopathic circles is now accepted by general medicine, but rejected by many modern practitioners.

For instance, around the turn of the century, homeopaths were the biggest advocates of using radiation for cancer treatments. Not just natural mineral baths, but radium tubes, x-ray exposure, and so on. Because radiation could cause cancer in large amounts, the idea that it could help treat it in small amounts was seen as following the homeopathic principle of "like cures like". Today, however, homeopaths will often reject radiation treatment, in favor of alternative, "natural" cancer remedies.

Pasteur was also attacked as a homeopath by his critics, though he didn't identify himself as such, because the idea of vaccination was also argued as following the principle of "like cures like". Most homeopathic doctors supported the discovery. One wrote,"Vaccination is a kind of homeopathy." Today, many homeopaths will argue for alternative treatments to vaccination.

The practice of giving dilutions is only one of many that has been advocated since Hahneman. It survives in homeopathic medicine today only because conventional medicine rejects it.
11:50 September 26, 2011 by Shibumi
Hilarious 2.5 minute skit from Mitchell & Webb on a Homeopathic A&E:

http://youtu.be/HMGIbOGu8q0
12:59 September 26, 2011 by Jamtjim
"Mainstream medicine was afraid, is afraid and will be afraid of homeopathy as they see that there is not much money to be made in practicing homeopathy....."

This is conspiratorial nonsense I'm afraid. The vast majority of doctors and medical professional have absolutely nothing to gain from denying perfectly good treatments. Indeed, a prerequisite of the certification for all modern medicinal treatments is the the testing panel be totally impartial and independent from those submitting their work.

The fact is that if any homoeopathic remedy was ever shown to be effectual, then it would immediately be accepted and widely prescribed as as been mentioned before, water have no real side effects. The problem is that no homoeopathic remedy of diluted water / alcohol has ever been shown to show any statistical difference from a sugar pill, vitamin C or any other placebo.

@redfish

"For instance, around the turn of the century, homeopaths were the biggest advocates of using radiation for cancer treatments."

I won't argue with you about your claim as to the source of these treatments even if I am not convinced of their veracity. However if they are indeed true, then difference here is that treatments such as the ones you describe have been tested, shown to be effectual and as such embraced by general medicine. As I mentioned before, what do you call alternative medicine which has been tested and shown to work? Medicine!

"Today, however, homeopaths will often reject radiation treatment, in favor of alternative, "natural" cancer remedies."

And this illustrates the inherent danger and immorality of quacks offering non-functioning homoeopathic remedies in lieu of treatments which have been shown to work. Even if taken alongside mainstream treatments whilst the remedies may be physically harmless is there not something fundamentally unethical about using someone's fear of death or suffering in order to con money out of them?

"Pasteur was also attacked as a homeopath by his critics, though he didn't identify himself as such, because the idea of vaccination was also argued as following the principle of "like cures like"."

This is correct. Pasteur was criticised but eventually was proved correct. You know why? Because it his methods were tested and proved to work. Had they been tested and proved not to have worked as homoeopathic remedies have, Pasteurs claims would have been disregard also.

"It survives in homeopathic medicine today only because conventional medicine rejects it."

Conventional medicine only rejects homoeopathic cures only due to the fact they have either been shown not to work or else not shown to work. If one is ever shown conclusively to work, it will become medicine!
14:08 September 26, 2011 by littleG
Why mainstream medicine is a failed approach ?

The only way people in mainstream medicine know to overcome an infection is by using a poison/chemical to kill a bacteria or virus that is supposedly causing this problem. First you put this poison in our body thinking that it will kill the bacteria while knowing that it will kill good bacteria and kill some body tissues as well during the course.

This is the same approach of using pesticides to kill crop pests. This is the culture of war that is so deeply ingrained in western culture and in some sense in primitive human instincts. This violent fight/war is going on by mainstream medicine and US/Europe military to conquer and kill all known enemies and they some how think there is no alternative to this war.

If you are against violence and you are against the concept of war, then you should seek alternative non violent methods/ideas to solve the problem. By being non violent doesn't mean you shouldn't defend yourself, but you will never attack somebody else or infections by using poison.

Let me give you an example, if you are a perfectly healthy individual and you get infected with Malaria. The only thing you need to do is eat healthy diet and let the infection run it's course in your body. If your body is healthy, your immune system will fight the infection and after a week or so you will be perfectly normal and your immune system is stronger. That is how you treat an infection, not by loading your body with chemicals and toxins.

Similarly the way to control crop pests is not by spraying highly toxic pesticides, but by using natures own way of dealing with pests by using Integrated pest management method. You might lose 10% of crop by the pests, but your poultry can eat those pests and give you a lot of eggs. Remember nothing is wasted in nature and everything is renewed. It is only the crude human unsustainable thinking which destroy and waste precious nature and life.

So the next time you are down with cold/fever don't fear and start taking pills, eat healthy stay active and if you need try safe alternative remedies without side effects. God bless.

http://littleg-ideas.blogspot.com/2011/09/why-mainstream-medicine-is-failed.html
15:14 September 26, 2011 by Shibumi
Re: #48:

"03:26 September 26, 2011 by littleG

Mainstream medicine was afraid, is afraid and will be afraid of homeopathy as they see that there is not much money to be made in practicing homeopathy. The treatment is simple and medicines are cheap so less revenue and profit. Also all these medical association are indirectly funded and controlled by big pharmaceutical companies who have lot of profits at stake and hate homeopathy."

This is the popular David vs. Goliath myth extolled by proponents of CAM (Complementary and Alternative Medicine). In fact CAM is a multi-billion dollar industry and getting bigger. Their profit margins are huge as the raw materials they use are usually cheap and especially as they do not have to subject their products to rigorous testing in order to prove safety and effectiveness to the standards we demand of mainstream medicine.

In fact, CAM is becoming so profitable that major pharmaceutical companies, far from hating CAM, are increasingly getting in on the action. GSK, for example, owns Abtei which produces vitamins, minerals and herbal supplements. Boiron, the largest producer of homeopathy, made revenues of over half a billion Euros in 2010. Not bad for selling untested, unregulated water and sugar pills.
16:43 September 26, 2011 by littleG
Re: #55

15:14 September 26, 2011 by Shibumi

Any person with common sense of economics knows that demand creates supply and not the other way. As you noted, Boiron is able to have such revenues is because of the huge demand for homeopathic products by customers themselves.

I have seen in US that a majority of TV ads are of mainstream pharma drugs coercing/soliciting common people to ask their doctors about these drugs. First of all what is the need to advertise about these drugs on national television. These drugs are to be known only by doctors, why should common people be bombarded by these tall claims by pharma companies.

How many advertisements of Homeopathic medicines are on television ? Almost nil. Yet, there is a huge bottom up demand by people. That my friend, is the truth.

As far as your claim that CAM industry also make huge profits, if there is an opportunity to make money all crooks will jump on it. Who doesn't want to MAKE money ?

But I know classical homeopathic medicines are not patented and can be prepared from raw materials at low cost and hence non profit motivated individuals can supply at really low prices.

Your claim of untested, unregulated water and sugar pills is rubbish. Homeopathic(HOM) medicines do not cause any adverse effects even with accidental overdose. Every HOM remedy are already tested for its efficacy to treat certain symptoms long back. As far as regulations are concerned, there are enough regulations already. Your notion of HOM remedies being water and sugar pills, yes they are, but do they work ? have you tried on yourself ? If not then try it. Until then don't speak non sense on something you never tried.

Also did you read my other comment #54. What's your reply to that ?
20:15 September 26, 2011 by rumcajs
BOTH homoeopathy and "normal" medicine can be misused. I didn't believe in homoeopathy till they told my dad that he had some blocked arterias (no mistake.. test done 2ice) and had to go to a op in 2 months. During those 2 months his friend (Homoeopathic Doctor) was giving him homoeopathic pills and puting neadles on his feet and 2 months later the doctors didn't find the blocks any more and didn't have to cut.
22:04 September 26, 2011 by Gamla Hälsingebock
Hey, a little chicken soup...it couldn't hurt!... LOL
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