• Sweden edition
 

New 'mythbuster' website to fight racism in Sweden

Published: 19 Dec 2011 07:33 GMT+01:00
Updated: 19 Dec 2011 07:33 GMT+01:00

“Extremism has found a new forum which is also very effective when it comes to spreading myths and prejudice,” integration minister Erik Ullenhag of the Liberal Party (Folkpartiet) writes in an opinion piece published Monday in the Dagens Nyheter (DN) newspaper.

Ullenhag cites a report issued earlier in the year by the Forum for Living History (Forum för levande historia) which found there had been a dramatic increase in the number of racist websites in Sweden in recent years.

While racism is hardly a new phenomenon, writes Ullenhag, racist myths and stereotypes have found a new foothold on the web, and must be addressed there.

“Prejudice will be met with the facts that exist,” he writes.

The new site, regeringen.se/tolerans, attempts to debunk a number of “common internet myths about immigrants and minorities”.

“One always needs to engage in debates about xenophobia and prejudice,” writes Ullenhag, who also warns of the dangers of “the silence of forces for good”.

Among the myths addressed on the website are claims that Sweden will soon be a Muslim country, that Swedes are on their way to becoming a minority in their own country, and that Swedish children are no longer allowed to eat pork in school.

In announcing the launch of the new website, Ullenhag goes on to explain that a number of the myths addressed on the site have “even found their way into debates in the Riksdag”.

“We can therefore see how internet prejudices can be found in the political debate,” writes Ullenhag.

TT/The Local/dl (news@thelocal.se)

Your comments about this article

08:30 December 19, 2011 by occassional
Equality ombudsmen, anti-discrimination campaigns, diversity programs, inter-relation councils, integration drives, information campaigns, cultural workshops, inter-faith seminars, media debates and of course...myth buster websites.

The government seems to be busy at work all right.
08:38 December 19, 2011 by jostein
Lying to the people is a bit like peeing in your own pants to solve the problem of feeling coold. Its a shortterm soloution but it is detrimental to the objective longterm.

Ullenhagens pants are already thoroughly wet. This initiative is the fiftyeleventh such initiative. I dont think anyone know how many hundereds of millions of SEK that has been spent on propaganda on this issue. And almost all professional media is trying to back up the state on this issue and refrain from doing their job of critical and objective journalism. And the state even controls the collection of statistics and manipulate it and even stop collectiong damning statistics altogether. And STILL they are loosing the argument to these websites even thought the websites have no funding and no professional staff and cant even advertise since the statefunded expo phones around and threatens every advetiser and have access to the sturmabteilung of AFA if threats are not enough.

The only explanation i can find that the state feels so threatened by these websites is that they have the advantage of truth and truth is persistent? Why else would the state feel the need for all this propaganda?
09:03 December 19, 2011 by Valdemaratterdag
Rosengård is a myth, Rosengård is a myth, Rosengård is a myth.

There, all better now?
09:20 December 19, 2011 by Central European
I hope to hear some more imans talking on this pages ,like in swedish radio, about necessity to kill everyone who voluntarily leave their religion.
09:41 December 19, 2011 by cowboykodp
It seems that all the racists, bigots and Islamophobes are the ones peeing their pants now.

I actually feel sorry for these people, since they have been fed lies and propaganda for way too long.

Now we need a similar website for some Muslim countries to address myths about the West.

There are idiots on all sides, be it a tiny, vocal, and bitter minority.
10:56 December 19, 2011 by Central European
Cowboy ... well I d say that you got the point ... we need same web site on the muslim side RUNNED BY MUSLIMS :) which is utopia, is not it ?

We also do not see any big movement of christians and nowaday´s pohans from europe to muslim countries , do see ?

If we are even moving there for work or tourist reasons we are able to adapt local customs, or better say we are ready to do not disturb locals.

I think the biggest advatage or at moment disadvantage of europeans that we are able acculturate to others even in our own coubntries more that is necessary.

We feel it as a gift to them, they see it as yellow-bellied behavior.... that is all about ....
11:25 December 19, 2011 by zircon
Old shoe: if you're xenophobic you should never try to change your hair for me... The silence of the good, this too is nonsense. Sweden has to stop pretending it's the best second thing to humanity and than you have busted something really essential there. You can't also pretend to have responsibilities like countries e.g. USA and Britain with great diversity of people and politics, that's the old myth shoe you should get rid off too. When it comes to good governing the EU is the best place for you. It's less diversified and singular by nature. Something to feed in silence 'the good' for all xenophobics. which shows why your PM can't make up his mind (waiting more than 48 hours to for example align with Britain, also not a Euro country should be reason enough to sack such a man) on the issue of the fiscal compact. Countries with great responsibilities are the leading nations that cannot afford to be openly xenophobic. By now you should notice that this is what transparency means for and to many of these countries. The other side to xenophobia is opening the so called borders and then closing things again, all based on a mood swing. First you blind people with your charities and than you're poking out their eyes again saying that's because they want more... Legislation perhaps? In your country you have no first amongst equals. You have immigrants promotion to make you look better. Nice Christmas present for you there isn't it?
11:29 December 19, 2011 by Snob
I think frankly Sweden requires a good old-fashioned robust UPPER CLASS at the pinnacle of a society where the classes are relatively well-defined, as prevalent at the end of 19th century...The fuzzy-duzzy Nordic cool egalitarianism has met the end of the road with globalization, global forces of competition and entry of immigrants. To Start with the egalitarian cool society with a nonsense provocative avant-garde culture was a disneyland version of human reality which was not going to work anyway. Incidents like the Breivik clearly demonstrate the need for a nice succinct Elite attached to the Royal household which can preserve and perpetuate icons of national symbols. Immigrants should adhere to the ethos and symbols of the upper-class and appreciate that this their host society's heritage and not rant and rave liberal gibberish of cultural relativism. We have the rise of these funky 'laddies', modern IT version of petty-bourgeoisie who are IT experts churning out programs which make the economy work well, get drunk on weekends, talk liberal cool platitudes and watch obscene sports like car-racing. Man come on where is the distinction of refinement and culture?? The sooner Sweden starts accepting and welcoming a non-birth based nobility of culture and heritage than it will be better and we can prevent the frightening rise of far-right. It makes me angry how the Breivik incident is misinterpreted across the Nordic belt as an issue of freedom of expression, just rubbish, only if we had outlets like the Prussian aristocracy and its custodianship of the army we could have absorbed and tempered such violent forces.

Believe the chaps like the multikulti ones can be sorted out nicely in a semi-feudal society with dukes and barons!! Visit Pakistan where the elites carry Bikini bags speak accented English and relish life and we have the gutter discourse of 'isolationist' here...

We had another lone gunman shoot-out in Belgium, the innocent lives were lost. I call upon the readers to reflect why why the establishment in our European disneyland societies cannot offer plausible explanations. VISIT A MUSEUM AND SEE THE MEANINGS WHICH WERE EMBEDDED IN 19TH CENTURY AND 20TH CENTURY SOCIETY....WITH SOPHISTICATED CULTURE BY THE ELITES!!

HOW MANY LIVES NEED TO BE LOST IN GUNSHOTS BEFORE WE SHED THE DOGMA OF CONSUMERIST MIDDLE-CLASS SOCIETY?? HOW MANY LONE GUNMAN WILL BE PROWLING FOR CARNAGE TILL OUR COOL CULTURE CRUMBLES??

HOW MUCH MORE PRICE DO WE HAVE TO PAY AS A SOCIETY FOR MEDIOCRITY???

I feel very very passionately about this idea since the era of dumb egalitarian culture where stupid TV shows rule the roost is so much instilled that European society cant think of anything else and needs to be stirred!!
12:24 December 19, 2011 by seborga82
just red on this site, see how murders are here per month...the end of Sweden is approaching. Perhaps sweden needs a whole national wide conflict in order to get it.
12:46 December 19, 2011 by Svensksmith
"Fight and kill disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every strategem of war." (Koran 9:5)

Myth or fact?
12:48 December 19, 2011 by seborga82
The studies shown on this site is questionable, who lacks of a sense of reality. Crime is among the refugees is in fact a genetic factor: very prominent references have indicated so. Rushton, J.P., Templer, D. (2009), National differences in intelligence, crime, income, and skin color, Intelligence, 37 (1), 341-346. Martens, P. (1997) 'Immigrants, Crime and criminal justice in Sweden', Crime and Justice-A Review of research, vol. 30 (2). Other well established academic research has also indicated how so-called diversity destroyed the level of social trust: Bjørnskov, Christian (2006), Determinants of generalized trust: A cross-country comparison, Public Choice, 130, 1-20. Most so-called refugees do not refugee grounds, that is 100% true as well: Neumayer, E. (2004) 'Asylum destination choice: What makes some of the west European countries more attractive than the others?', European Union Politics, vol. 5 (2). for almost every arguments on that site, I have a more evident counter-proof of otherwise. As a PhD, it is very hard for me to be fooled by these unfounded researches they have been quoting...
12:57 December 19, 2011 by fedotovskiy
LOL WHAT?

The article named "to fight racism" but myths are

"Among the myths addressed on the website are claims that Sweden will soon be a Muslim country, that Swedes are on their way to becoming a minority in their own country, and that Swedish children are no longer allowed to eat pork in school."

LOL, there is no Race mentioned in description of "myths" :)

Islam - is not a Race, it is not a nationality as well.

So, those myths are not racist.

It is very funny when author of article use termin "racism" but doesn't understand meaning of it :)

LOL
13:07 December 19, 2011 by godnatt
Can't wait to see this.

This ought to be a very amusing catalog of lies of omission, logical fallacies, puffery and outright propaganda that undergrad philosophy classes will be able to use to study false logic for years to come.

The real data from credible non-partisan, non-conservative sources will still be out there to find and there is nothing they can do about that.
13:42 December 19, 2011 by canuk
seeing as refugees and immigrants from non western backgrounds understand that every kid they have is money in the bank, they each have their generous share of them, similar to how rabbits tend to procriate. soon swedes will be a minority in malmö and this will continue for at least 1 full generation until those born here from the parents of immigrants become either swedified or go on to prepetuate bad behaviour to the next generation.
14:01 December 19, 2011 by muntazir
@Svensksmith That verse is in context of an event where disbelievers waged a war and broke a peace treaty. Quoting selectively without context spreads misinformation.
14:12 December 19, 2011 by zircon
Additional: Sweden's smart design answer to the primus interparis in politics: let's give women power beyond their merits and everything is fine. That is cunning and it will work only in Sweden or elsewhere less demanding what true responsibility for democracy should be and perpetual. If you want a true equal society, first it is amongst men, than next in the world of politics women can also aquire the same status once PM or leader of the opposition. Leading the people, men and women.

And how one preserves the rights of natural natives in Sweden doesn't hit any political note really. Perhaps, reading the above here in comments, people do want a clear uncut version in politics of country and natives preservation, but are missing out on the more finer senses of these policies. Take Germany, they have learned the hard way that humanity is a high ideal and demanding a price in terms of why peace & stability should lead the way for all nations. (Black nations can be quite void of the greater good of humanity and therefore make very little sense when retorting to atrocities/ crimes against their own. This truth should reform, I agree.) But the debate is good if Sweden wants something from a wider democratic system and diverse as much as possible so that economics makes sense when aligning with the bigger nations.
14:13 December 19, 2011 by Grokh
Lets say that immigrants in sweden are all said to eat popcorn...

then the myth buster say "thats not true"

isnt that racist against those immigrants that do eat popcorn ?!

popcorn being a code for extreme islamic , and by extreme i dont mean they have bombs around their waist i mean they follow the Quran, a book that says salted water cant be mixed with mineral water... which is just as insane as people who believe in the bible where its written u should kill your son if he curses at you...

and on top of that are racist against anyone who isnt muslim .

thats extreme to me.

ofcourse thats a very small percentage but they are still there, so no one can say its all flowers and culture, even muslims are scared of muslims for a reason.
15:42 December 19, 2011 by Svensksmith
@muntazir Can you explain the context of the following:

"Islam is a revolutionary faith that comes to destroy any government made by man. Islam doesn't look for a nation to be in a better condition than any other nation. Islam doesn't care about the land or who owns the land. The goal of Islam is to rule the entire world and submit all of mankind to the faith of Islam. Any nation or power that gets in the way of that goal, Islam will fight and destroy. In order to fulfill that goal, Islam can use every power available every way it can used to bring worldwide revolution. This is jihad."

Sayeed Abdul A'la Maududi, founder of the Jamaate-Islami
15:44 December 19, 2011 by Vill
I don't believe in any alleged racist myths. I believe in truths learned from my experiences in daily life. The truth is....Islam is not compatible with a modern, civilized society.
15:47 December 19, 2011 by cowboykodp
Svenskmith;

I'll wait for muntazir to set you straight again.

Or should I quote you a mission statement from the KKK and ask you what the context of it is or why all white Christians hate blacks?
15:47 December 19, 2011 by RobinHood
Will the site dispel the myth that certain areas of Sweden are so overwhelmed by immigrants that it is difficult to recognise those areas as Swedish, in religion or culture, at all?

Will the site dispel the myth that the followers of one particular religion appear in wildly disproportionate numbers amongst those convicted of sexual offences in Sweden?

Will the site dispel the myth that unrestricted immigration has so overwhelmed Sweden's social services that Swedes must pay the second highest taxes in the world to keep those services running at even barely acceptable levels?

Will the site dispel the myth that sensible debate about the merits of unrestricted immigration to Sweden is so stifled that "debate" is restricted to extremist trolls from the left and right, screeching abuse at one another?
16:07 December 19, 2011 by godnatt
Here's how this will go:

1) They will choose the most absurd claims made by overt Nazi extremists (ie pork in schools) and pretend that these are the arguments of those of ALL people opposing the current immigration policies.

2) They will debunk the absurdest claims and say that they have debunked ALL opposition to immigration while entirely ignoring the factual, credible and real arguments against it.

They will do this because their position is factually indefensible and based on keeping the data and the truth about the damage they've done to the safety, economy and future of Sweden hidden from it's citizens.
16:17 December 19, 2011 by cowboykodp
Hey Godnatt and Robinhood;

Here is a novel idea. Why don't you too go to the website mentioned in the article and read it all in black and white.

That is if you understand and read Swedish.
16:37 December 19, 2011 by Svensksmith
Cowboy, did you know that Mohammed kept several slaves and called blacks "raisen heads" and that the Arabic word for a black person is to this day "abed (slave)?
16:55 December 19, 2011 by cowboykodp
Svensksmith;

Gee, wow....what a revelation. You realize your speaking of 1500 years ago?
17:08 December 19, 2011 by dstergiou
Religion is like having a penis. It's cool, it's nice, but you still don't have the right to walk around with your penis out or to try to shove it to our faces

When people understand this, life will be so much easier!
17:18 December 19, 2011 by Svensksmith
Cowboy, yes that was centuries ago. Has much changed? Today in the Middle East there is virtually no black culture despite the fact that many black people were imported there to be slaves. Why is that?
17:28 December 19, 2011 by godnatt
@ cowboy

Ah, didn't see the link. Thanks.

This is exactly what I expected.

Perfect for you though since it involves virtually no source references or actual evidence. They also pretend to not have stats where they most certainly could. Right up the alley of someone as numerically/factually challenged as yourself.

So here we go:

Myth 1 - Doesn't address the fact that 2nd generation immigrants are actually more likely to commit crimes than their parents in Europe and can just as easily perpetuate barbaric Islamic beliefs. ** Omits second (and third) generation effects of immigration.

Myth 3 - Outright deception. The Muslim birthrate alone is 3 times higher than non-Muslims. No rational person is discussin the effects NEXT year. We are talking about in 25+ years. **Blatant attempt at misdirection from the actual issue.

Myths 4,5,6 - Stupid Nazi stuff I was talking about.

Myths 8 - Lie. One can very easily release the proportion of crimes committed by 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. Sweden chooses to conceal these stats to decieve it's citizens. **Surrounding countries like Norway and Denmark do release them and the picture it paints is sickening.

Myth 9 - More lies. Saying you can't estimate the economics of immigration is ridiculous. Every other country manages to do it. Hell, US states manage to do it. Unless Sweden hasn't yet discovered the space age technology of statistical sampling. Undocumented male Mexican immigrants in the US have a 94% employment rate for example. I wonder it is for Sweden's immigrants? Or do they not want to say?

Myth 10 - I'm for importing skilled labor.

Myth 11- I'm all for importing foriegn dentists, engineers, etc so perfect.

Myth 12 - You are a perfect example of this.

Myth 13 - From an August 2011 immigration poll by Ipos: "Anti-immigration sentiment was particularly strong in Europe, with over 65% of Spaniards, Italians and British polled strongly or partly agreeing that "there are too many immigrants in our country".

Sweden and Poland were the only European countries surveyed that did not have majorities who considered immigration to have a negative impact. In no country did a majority consider immigration to have been beneficial."

Enjoy!
18:20 December 19, 2011 by lewni
HAHAHAHAHA.... ONLY 15% born out of sweden, only 16.5% by 2050 ? That's cuz you're not including the hundreds of thousands of kids born to these 15% cuz they're being born in sweden..... such twisting of words to pretend all is well.
18:25 December 19, 2011 by cowboykodp
Svensksmith;

"Today in the Middle East there is virtually no black culture despite the fact that many black people..."

Are you kidding me? If you ever travel to ME countries, you will see black people everywhere. The difference is that they are not considered "black", as we tend to categorize them here in the west. They are just citizens of that country.

Godnatt:

My friend.....of course everyone lies except you. The Swedish government MUST not be trusted. Don't you know, they have no respect in the world and don't want their country to succeed, as you do.
19:02 December 19, 2011 by NowSwimBack2
'Dispelling' - more like CREATING myths about immigrants. Minorities are ruining Western civilization as they have ruined their own nations and no amount of ZOG propaganda is going to change those FACTS. It's just going to result in politicians being dealt with French Revolution-style.
20:17 December 19, 2011 by Svensksmith
Cowboy: I said black culture not black people. But, hey we're unlikely to ever reach an agreement. I think Islam is a violent, intolerant religion/political organization that subjugates women, minorities, homosexuals, etc. and you think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

At least you're being reasonable and not calling names and threatening to let loose the tiger. You're showing maturity.
20:57 December 19, 2011 by cowboykodp
Svenksmith;

I do not like any religion. They are all backward. I believe in Karma.

This is your single biggest problem. You and many on this forum and other forums, just don't seem to get it that these people have great respect for their own religion, way of life and existence. When we in the west put down their religion, we are putting down everything they hold dear. Basically calling them useless, thus creating enemies and a cycle of hate and mistrust.

Like it or not, we need to respect people, even if we don't respect or share their ideals.

If you study your American history, you will discover (or may already know) that we called Native American savages. We thought the catholic church was taking over. We did not allow Chinese to be citizens of the US. We put Japanese in concentration camps. On and on....

In time, we realized just how wrong we were, and how much our culture could learn from theirs.

Do you really not see that?

As the saying goes...Humans are the only animals that step in the same hole twice.
21:02 December 19, 2011 by Greysuede
asylum system doesn't work properly. public opinion isn't taken into account.

i wonder from which sources and how much get the liberals for this propaganda.
21:08 December 19, 2011 by bramblebush
Will they try and dispell the myth about the Muhammad marrying 12 year old girls? Oh, I forgot, that is not a myth...
21:36 December 19, 2011 by Gamla Hälsingebock
Pretty soon we will have to ask our governments for permission to speak and they will tell us what to say.

If I expressed a dislike for say,...curry or soy sauce, etc., that would surely put me in danger from some government agency and possibility the need to hire a lawyer to keep me out of prison, for expressing views they view as xenophobic?

Orwell is/was right! Big Brother lives!!!!!!!!
21:41 December 19, 2011 by DaveyC
If I wanted to commit a non-violent genocide against a whole race, I would need to flood all of their countries with millions of racial aliens and order the natives everyone to "assimilate" themselves out of existence.

Resistors to the genocide program would have to be demonised and punished using some bogus charge.

Anti-whites are ONLY doing this to white people in all of our white countries.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White
21:42 December 19, 2011 by Svensksmith
Cowboy: I take people on an individual basis. Race, religion, social stature...means little to me. I don't suffer well people who are rude, intolerant, act superior, or are just plain evil. And there is evil in the world, make no mistake about it.
21:55 December 19, 2011 by godnatt
@ bramblebush

Try 9...but he's the perfect man, the model of human behavior to be followed without question. Who are you to criticize?

@ cowboy

Haha. Well some of us can back up our "lies" with facts.

The authors of this vague collection of half-truths are, like yourself, in the grip of an ideology where the doctrine comes first and facts comes second. So, the lack of evidence and indefensibility of the position is covered up with accusations, anecdotes and buzz words.

You are all well meaning and think you are doing good.

But unfortunately you are not and our grandchildren will pay for it unless things change.

I was like you, but when repeatedly confronted with the facts of the situation changed my position to fit the facts. Others will do anything they can to avoid the truth to make the world fit the fantasy of how they wish it were.

And in reality, I'm not entirely anti-immigration. I'm just for productive immigration.
22:26 December 19, 2011 by leoheart
Swedes assumes many things by themselves. Ask the persons who are living here...Racist Myth..LOL
22:27 December 19, 2011 by Roy E
@bramblebush said: "Will they try and dispell the myth about the Muhammad marrying 12 year old girls? Oh, I forgot, that is not a myth..."

But it is a myth! She was younger than that when married, 6 years old by some accounts. The marriage wasn't consummated until the girl, Aisha, was a practially geriatic 9 years old.

I'm looking forward to hearing the government's 'mythbusting' attempt to explain (dismiss?) the Muslim practice of Taqiyya, or, in English terms, officially sanctioned duplicity and deceit.
22:37 December 19, 2011 by cowboykodp
Godnatt;

In your wildest dreams, you could not be like me.

But keep the dream of evolution alive. It could happen to you too.

Happy Holidays.....

Signing off.
23:01 December 19, 2011 by batista
@ Cwoboykodp

I registered today and had to comment.

I have to say that after reading all comments, you seem to be a smart person.

Please keep up the good work specially by replying to this user called godnatt.

I don't where you from and it doesn't really matter, because you are smart and you speak the truth.

Keep it up mate ;)
23:38 December 19, 2011 by godnatt
@cowboy

True. I'm capable of critical thought.

Happy Kwanzaa.
00:27 December 20, 2011 by anony1
One confirmed myth for me (while I was in Goteborg) is not being let to enter a night club (I can provide name if needed) because of black hair color! (even we were dressed elegant).

Today I am in other European country. but I damn miss racist swedes!
00:35 December 20, 2011 by DaveyC
Mythbusters will not be able to refute the charge that forcing "Diversity"(fewer and fewer whites) on white populations globally is genocide and illegal under international law.

Do you agree that this MOST IMPORTANT subject needs to be debated in the public discourse without censorship and reprisals?

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.
00:40 December 20, 2011 by Aigulle Delaz
@ Snob, thou hast hit the nail right on the head and it is truly refreshing to hear such clarity. Having been brought up in a working class household in a now semi-deprived area of East London(thanks to immigration of various kinds of malevolents) There are now implicit ethnic ghettos where the various ethnic 'minorities' engage in all their black market business ensuring that they remain verily below the radar of the taxman and seemingly have BMWs, can go back to their 'broke' countries all the time and have shops popping up like they are going out of fashion.

Multiculturalism if anyone has read Robert Hurlford's Rise of the totalitarians or Aldous Huxley's Brave New World will know that such fads and triumphalist notions are nothing more than tools used to control a native population in forcing them to submit to any ideas those in the driving seat of the state (Government) want. If that means pulling off the same policies Stalin implemented to literally pick ethnic groups and move them en masse across the USSR, then they shall do it but instead of moving the population, you just dilute the demographic and concentrate them in certain areas !
00:58 December 20, 2011 by Belovedcity
I am sure that the extremists racist will destroy their countries then they will kill each other .

We must say The fact :

europe in need of immigrants.accept it or not , they need this people so as to make those racist still alive
02:18 December 20, 2011 by jvtx3232
"Rosengård is a myth, Rosengård is a myth, Rosengård is a myth.

There, all better now?"

@Valdemaratterdag: Hey! You pointed out the 900-pound gorilla in the middle of the room! That's racism! You're not supposed to say stuff that's true.

;)
03:15 December 20, 2011 by xexon
I think the stereotypes here are Swedish, not immigrants.

You have this idea that nordic people are white and fair skinned. Maybe once upon a time. But this is a new century and you need to let that go. Otherwise you will never know peace.

And you will also be outnumbered at some point and live under their idea of being Swedish, not your's.

Something to think about...

x
05:45 December 20, 2011 by Jannik
@xexon

"You have this idea that nordic people are white and fair skinned. Maybe once upon a time. But this is a new century and you need to let that go. Otherwise you will never know peace."

Well this idea is based on reality, "nordic people" are people of white european descent. Ethnic swedes are the aboriginals of sweden. Sweden, and many other european states, used to be ethnostates.

Using your logic, you might as well proclaim that tibetans are not people of east asian descent, or that the native americans can be of any stock. This will of course result in the most ludicrous statements that fly in the face of reality.

Denying a people their existence will not make them go away. Calling someone a "swede" does not make them an ethnic swede.

So i prefer keeping my scandinavian identity as opposed to "knowing peace", which is just another word for apathy.

No thank you, i prefer resisting the massive demographic replacement which is taking place at the moment.

"And you will also be outnumbered at some point and live under their idea of being Swedish, not your's."

Wow what a threat. Well this will only happen if the current trends continue. Which hopefully will be reversed at some point. A halt to immigration and massive repatriation will cure this problem.

But no matter what happens, "their" idea of being swedish will be nothing but an empty idea of citicenship, totally dismantled from the ethnic and cultural roots.

All ethnic swedes will of course know who are the real swedes. And the immigrants know it to. No amount of indoctrination and propaganda can change this. So get used to reality
07:06 December 20, 2011 by Lavaux
The Mythbusters website hopes its readers assume that because the state publishes its content, its content must be true. Who assumes that? Not me. State actors lie at the same rate as everyone else, if for different reasons.

Where was that guy from who tried to set off a car bomb last year in a crowded street in Stockholm, what god did believe in, and why did he try to do it? How many of such attacks have been attempted by Loki's devotees? Hmmm, I wonder whether Mythbusters can answer these questions for me ...
11:08 December 20, 2011 by jostein
#50 xexon

And suddenly colonisation and genocide is ok? Just as long as its directed at white people? Talk about racism?
11:55 December 20, 2011 by lilsocks
Comment: Got to laugh about Yanks on here (yes I am talking about you cowboykodp) preaching about equality and understanding, the VAST majority of the problems in the Middle East have been caused by American policy and its blind support of Israel. Just look at the countries where 'most' immigrants seem to come from and you will find American soldiers and CIA agents working their 'magic'....
12:34 December 20, 2011 by VicTaulic
Sweden is Sweden. Sweden is FOR Swedes. Blood Swedes. I do not see a big green statue of Liberty in Stockholm harbor. Let America worry about racism and equality. We have our lives to live. As Swedes in a Swedish country.
14:45 December 20, 2011 by DMEricson
xexon wrote:

"And you will also be outnumbered at some point and live under their idea of being Swedish, not your's."

Do you really think Swedes will not finally resist your war of extermination? Do you think they will always sit by while you genocide their nation, their history, their families, their culture, their persons? Do you expect they will always cower in fear while you import your armies of alien invaders? Don't you think it's more likely they'll fight back, when they finally see the death you plan, and defend against your sick and evil scheme? I do. I think they'll fight. God help them when they finally do. And God help you, too.
15:03 December 20, 2011 by swekiwi
Sweden is a country experiencing the growing pains of becoming multicultural, simple as that. I come from a country that's been in this process for 100 years, and its likely it will take this long for Sweden to acclimatise.

After living here for 7 years or more I can say that out and out racism is rare, and its more often Swedes inherent fear of the unknown misinterpreted.

Swedish culture and identity is evolving, and will for many generations to come, be sure there will always be extremists, on both ends of the spectrum, but the majority are moderate, as they are in most places.

Like it or not immigration is here to stay, its not going to end, not now or in the future, so grow up, deal with it, or you shall live a long a unhappy life, grim, beguiled and ultimately ostracized from your own society.

I always liked this take on racism... http://laurajul.dk/2011/09/22/brain-of-a-racist/
15:04 December 20, 2011 by Token-not-found
I'm actually surprised by the naivity and impertinence of the site...

Anyone working with statistical data can attest to the fact that numbers can be just deceiving as words and the site makers rely on that.

For example : the number of immigrants that is now x will remain constant even in 2050 , so in 2050 we will have the same X number of immigrants so sweden will not be "taken over"

Of course, because the x gets citizenship and ceases to be made of immigrants. The x of the present will dissappear in a few years because they will become naturalized , a new X will come in every 7 years.

So if now you have 1 mil immigrants , in a few years you will have the same number--only 1 mil. Because the former million become citizens, but the true overall number increases very fast.

It's such crass manipulation but it works on people.
15:12 December 20, 2011 by Vill
I firmly believe DMEricson speaks the truth.
15:40 December 20, 2011 by xexon
Extermination? Genocide? Such strong words.

It's YOUR own immigration laws that are to blame for this. What did you think was going to happen?

Now you've painted yourselves into a corner and you lash out at others in your anger. And this talk of preserving ethnic purity is dangerous. I'll remind you the Germans tried that once upon a time and almost destroyed western civilization in the effort. Don't go there.

I understand your desire to maintain an identity as Swedes, but you have to be very careful not to take the low road. Because if you do, the the idea of being a Swede will become tinged with racism and dirty the image people have of you from afar. That will lead to isolationism and scorn.

Look at Russia. They have a white supremacist attitude, and angry young men roaming the streets called skinheads. This is your future if you don't make the right decisions here.

x
16:48 December 20, 2011 by Jannik
@xexon

"Look at Russia. They have a white supremacist attitude, and angry young men roaming the streets called skinheads. This is your future if you don't make the right decisions here."

Exactly. The right decision is of course to halt all further immigration. Only let in a few thousands a year. And then send back all criminal foreigners immediatly. Unfortunately this is not what is going on at the moment.

"It's YOUR own immigration laws that are to blame for this. What did you think was going to happen?"

Well i certainly did not vote for any of the mainstream parties. Apart from this, the swedish politicians and media have been manipultating the electorate all along. This new "mythbuster" site is a prime example of this. Its all smoke and mirrors. A lot of people simply still believe all the lies that they are being told.

Preserving substantial ethnic majority is not a dangerous idea. Its what most of the european states have been pursuing up until the 70 and 80ties. Its mass immigration and multiculturalism which is a very dangerous idea.

And personally i dont mind "taking the low road". The ones who want to associate ethnonationalism with racism, are the same people i dont respect that much anyhow.

Besides if this idea catches on in most of Europe, and if the PC marxists become marginalized, this will only be a problem for some fringe groups. Unfortunately these groups are in power at the moment. But times may be changing soon.

When enough europeans realize that they are being ethnically cleansed form their own homelands, the zeitgeist will surely change.

Out of curiosity, let me ask you a few question;

Are the palestinians, kurds and tibetans tinged with racism for wanting their own ethnic state? Would you tell them to shut up and get used to reality, where they are expected to live in multicultural states, or perhaps as minorities?

I will be looking forward to your answer.
18:11 December 20, 2011 by xexon
The Palestinians, Kurds and Tibetians were taken over by military force. You're victims of your own lack of foresight when you passed these lax immigration laws. Nobody shot you in the foot but you.

You can't get in a time machine and go back to the good old days. They're gone forever. You have to deal with what is in place today. Sweden, along with many other countries have a future of being ethnically diverse. Like it or not. Unless you commit genocide against all your immigrants, the same kind of genocide you fear, this IS your future.

You cannot destroy other people without also destroying yourselves in the process. The world is getting smaller. I suggest you all learn how to live together.

x
18:55 December 20, 2011 by godnatt
"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within."

-Will Durant
19:19 December 20, 2011 by Jannik
@xexon

So swedes lost their right to their own homeland because of the politicians "lack of foresight"? This is somehow an odd statement.

So future generations of swedes, who have had no say in the current immigration policies, have lost this territorial rigth i suppose. While tibetans and Kurds still have this right because they have been subjected to force.

Your position is time inconsistent.

It apparently makes no difference that politicians have been selling out their own people. Thats just tough luck in your world.

Europeans through out all of Europe have for decades been complaining about to many immigrants in their countries, survey after survey confirm this pattern. Immigration and diversity is not a strength but a weakening of societal bonds and cohesion.

"You can't get in a time machine and go back to the good old days. They're gone forever. You have to deal with what is in place today."

Well of course not. But this does not entail that it is impossible to neither halt immigration or repatriate substantial numbers of immigrants.

"Sweden, along with many other countries have a future of being ethnically diverse. Like it or not."

This is not at all determined before hand. I do not believe population movements are the product of some deterministic structure. immigration has solely been the product of mad policies set in motion by politicians who loathe their own national heritage.

"Unless you commit genocide against all your immigrants, the same kind of genocide you fear, this IS your future."

Well i am not advocating commiting genocide, i want the swedish people to remain a large majority in their own country, which will ensure their survival in the long run.

You are the one endorsing genocide of the swedish people by saying that it is 1) Inevitable that they will become a minority in their own country.

2) That swedes better get used to this fact, if they want to be treated nicely by immigrants in the future. Since one day in the future, the immigrants will define who is a "swede".

3) No matter what, swedes have lost the right to their own homeland, since the politicians have passed lax immigration laws at some point in time. A very vicious statement on your part.

1) and 3) even seem to contradict each other. Now what is it, is mass immigration the product of policies or the result some deterministic process?

You cant have it both ways now can you?
19:25 December 20, 2011 by kopraonu
@ xexon18:11

Don,t believe this marxist myth about irreversable colonism and not avoidable decline and destruction on western civilisation. People rising up, send lovely colonists back home and live nice in the 99% ethnic swedish society like they lived before WWII. And so does all Europe and US and Canada and Australia.

Kiking invaders out does not need time machine. Just a little bit common sense. USSR runned communism and multiculti for 73 years and it still collapsed. And now there is full progress of recovery, including recreating monoethnic states again. For example in Kazakhstan, kazakh,s made only 39% of population in 1989. Today this is already 63% and rising. Everything created by man is repairable and reversable.
21:26 December 20, 2011 by jvtx3232
"Like it or not immigration is here to stay, its not going to end, not now or in the future, so grow up, deal with it, or you shall live a long a unhappy life, grim, beguiled and ultimately ostracized from your own society. "

@Swekiwi: I agree that immigration is here to stay. There has always been immigration right along in the entire history of the human race.

However, it is not necessarily true that mass immigration policies are here to stay.

For example, in the U.S. people have outgrown the P.C. manufactured fear of being labeled a "racist" if they object to MILLIONS of illegal immigrants illegally crossing the border from Mexico and illegally living in the U.S.

Sealing the border from all illegal immigration is now ubiquitously considered prudent. And most people favor returning the 11 million criminals illegally living in our country back to their country of origin.

Similarly, if the political will can be mustered, policies put in place by the Swedish government which import tens of thousands of refugees who have no way to make a living in Sweden, are uneducated, don't know or care about the Swedish language, don't know or care about Swedish culture and customs, etc. can be terminated.

Taking it a step further, it would be good to then muster the political will to deport refugees living in Sweden to their countries of origin who stay unemployed for a set amount of time (6 months, 1 year, 2 years?) and do nothing but sponge off of the Swedish taxpayers.
00:08 December 21, 2011 by Snob
Aigulle Delaz

Im glad you appreciated my comment, we have subverted the notion of a grand Western culture protected by an elite class so badly that you will find my notions are not even being comprehended in the blogs..This is my third posting and only your response.

I like your instance of East London and this tweet English middle-class which is angst ridden and promote exotic cultures in their midst without any self-confidence, look at Winston Churchill a true blue-blooded aristocrat who led Britain to war against fascism uniting all the classes, working classes rallying behind the dukes and earls in common spirit..where the hell is that spirit with this petty middle class corporates??

Sweden is a cesspool of middle-class mediocrity and they keep yelling that this deranged egalitarianism is their culture, why don't you look at early 20th century or 19th century?? There were great strides in social equality then as well with democratic movements BUT there was a CLEAR DEFINED ELITE WHICH REPRESENTED WESTERN CULTURE AND SOPHISTICATION..why dont we bloody get it!!!

Imagine a white Swedish kid born in an average family, what is the inspiration?? We are a great welfare state..great then what....no classical concerts, no great artistry and then what you have a bunch of art critics disconnected from life discussing without the DAMN GRANDEUR MAN...just get it!!

Let me tell you I have worked with some far-right kids and some of them have an excellent grasp of Western civilization icons and military battle and history and they can only to turn to some neurotic Nordic liberal academic who espouses eating spicy shitty exotic cuisine....and listen to avant-garde junk music and preaching pacifism.

Look we dont have to fight wars, but we can celebrate valour and glory in an elegant manner.
00:38 December 21, 2011 by Marc the Texan
Mythbuster website. Where uber politically correct rhetoric will do it's best to stamp out popular dissenting views.
02:49 December 21, 2011 by DaveyC
Would you question the sanity and morals of an Establishment which knowingly supports the global GENOCIDE of white children by imposing mass immigration and "assimilation" on all white countries and ONLY white countries all in the name of so-called "anti-racism" and in defiance of the international GENOCIDE law?

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.
07:19 December 21, 2011 by fedotovskiy
"on all white countries and ONLY white countries "

Yoy are 100% right. Let's take a well-deveoped and rich Japan, or South Korea.

The population is 99.9% of japanese or koreans, respectively.

There is no any "diversity" there.

The population of those countries is declinig, but surprisingly (!) we don't see any africans and arabs sitting on welfare there. WHY?!!!
09:14 December 21, 2011 by HYBRED
@Snob

"Im glad you appreciated my comment, we have subverted the notion of a grand Western culture protected by an elite class so badly that you will find my notions are not even being comprehended in the blogs..This is my third posting and only your response."

I assure you that your comments are read and comprehended by other reader's. And each of the comments are perceived and valued by each individual reader. But then this is the comment section of the above article, not the Snob Editorial page.
13:36 December 21, 2011 by crunchy2k
Last I checked, the Mythbusters is a TV program on the Discovery channel. Sounds like we have some more Swedish pirates stealing a commercial program's IP (Intellectual property) to promote their wayward agenda.
22:25 December 21, 2011 by Snob
HYBRED

I don't know why you feel me initiating a discussion connotes or smacks of my editorial page..absolutely not!!

I have interviewed and interacted with some of the far-right youth and there is a growing frustration with the hollowness and vacuity of liberal elites, who project the cultural egalitarianism of lowest common denominator and my articles were censored when I critiqued the petty bourgeoisie ethic of mindless consumption,.,,I am not even allowed to speak about cultural elites or upper class, such a taboo topic and even I cant critique these nordic IT billionaires who are triumphed on cover pages and whose taste is depraved fast cars, expensive sunglasses...

So its only in these forums that I can evoke the notion of a cultural legacy elite as custodians of the precious jewels of West...need not be along the lines of old-fashioned nobility but when you have School of Economics kids cheering soccer matches with painted faces...and being cool about not being culturally different I wonder why people are so angry..

Look the far-right is also driven by some who are fond of military customs, classical piano trust me I know how much the classical pianists are suffering in the cool Nordic cultures...One of them made an interesting observation:

The Left condemns us as elitist and Eurocentric should play pathetic cross-cultural tunes in debauch festivals

The Right condemns us being waste of money and unproductive.,..

Please please follow the far-right websites carefully without prejudice they yearn for some sophisticated well-defined western culture which will not be achieved by reducing immigration...Why in Norway where the migrant population is not that high you have such backlash...just meet some cool liberal fools who masquerade as intellectuals...we need immediate action for resuscitating Western culture and elegance...

I know this from my work with some of the angry far-right cultural conservative youth and look they despise not so much the immigrants but listen carefully the damn ELITES...who are pathetic hard-working muddling middle-class elites detached from the population unlike the past Prussian vons and barons who would sing to glory in the battlefields with the poor and rich alike...come on....its time we get it!!

My intention is to evoke and not provoke the intelligent readers that maybe we don't need these number-crunching stupid liberal multi-kulti elites, BTW why are they multi-kulti?? Simple man they don't have to deal with the population neither they deal with the immigrants on a daily basis, a remote control pathetic love of the immigrant...why don't we get it?? The elites remove themselves from the population by pursuing this stupid multi-kulti..its time for some serious refashioning of the society..
00:45 December 22, 2011 by Jannik
@snob

I think you understand the essence of the conservative critique quiet well. It goes far wider than a critique of multiculturalism and immigration. I also happen to think that the west has stranded in a spiritual crisis. And that a major part of the problem is the liberal technocratic elite, and the spreading of the defunct ideologies which they adhere to.

This is a complicated discussion, and many of the points you raise will probably fall on deaf ears, especially in a forum like this. However dont let this deter you.

Sometimes its good that these type of discussions break in to the mainstream.
00:46 December 22, 2011 by nathan45
The fact is the government is left leaning and pro immigration they see a large demographic of anti immigration thinking people this website is a poor attempt at making people belive their left wing ideas to get votes.

Very disgusting just like capitalism in its curent form. GO 99% movement!
11:09 December 22, 2011 by Snob
Jannik

I completely appreciate your point and can only feel very delighted that someone mentioned the C word Conservative which has become a dirty banned word in the disney land of EU, in US there are many intellectuals who are espousing the C worldview. Interestingly even immigrant intellectuals like Zakaria share this ideal...

Yes absolutely I think immigration and multikulti are symptoms of a wider malaise which is cultural and spiritual in nature. But West is broader term and I think US and Canada have their essence of a polity quite intact particularly the US with a conservative elite which cherishes its traditions.

I remember making presentations on immigration to Dutch and Swedish groups and CAN YOU READERS BELIEVE IT...YOU COULD NOT USE THE WORD CIVILIZATION,,Im not joking or being facetious but damn serious since the word connotes western superiority. There were women in the group who believed in the cool drugs culture and shared anti-religious sentiments. European constitution could not insert the word 'Christian' and we are surprised at the far-right anger....

How can we expect to assimilate immigrants with such weak self-confidence and esteem??

With regards to elites I am not an old monarchist but this muddling middle class technocratic as you rightly point out adhere to defunct ideology....

The past elites were connected with the society and people and their sentiments and LOOK AT THE NORDIC ROYAL FAMILIES and their stunning silence and caution in public affairs.....and for me the LAST WESTERN WHITE ELITE WAS SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL who was liberal and tough.....would galvanize the masses cutting across all classes into action....Today Carl Bildt although an aristocrat would conduct endless seminars with powerpoint slides to discuss security threats and we will go round in circles...absolutely no action!!

Breivik is a case in point, look at his love of uniform, military pageantry, traditions and customs and now the court declares him as insane since most of the 'cool' liberals do not share any sentiment about the traditions and military.

This disconnect between people and elites with respect to a shared pride in legacy traditions and military grandeur if frightening!!

This is the crux of the problem.....BUT HOW MANY MORE ANGRY YOUNG MEN WILL GO ON RAMPAGE??? HOW MANY MORE LIVES WILL BE LOST BEFORE OUR MUDDLING MIDDLE CLASS WAKES UP TO THE NEW REALITY??
17:25 December 22, 2011 by Rick Methven
@Snob

Which funny farm did you escape from?
20:06 December 22, 2011 by Snob
Well I don't quite understand what funny farm has got to do with Churchill and please Rick this is not the time for such cheap jibes when lives are being lost and societies are in turmoil.

Kindly read the threads and there is a steady moaning of erosion of identity and culture and in my modest and provocative way I am trying to grapple with the reason and maybe I am not right in my reasoning but surely I did not read many triumphalist statements about multi-culturalism...PLEASE this is way too serious for such jokes!!
15:32 December 23, 2011 by Stephen Rohaty
What "Races" does Sweden recognize? How was this determined? DNA analysis? Or something else?
16:16 December 23, 2011 by tadchem
I applaud the effort, but I must point out that the most persecuted of the minorities among us is still the Jews. Some of the minorities we may be trying to protect with these efforts are already sworn to the eradication of another minority.
17:14 December 23, 2011 by james_g
Snob:

Jeeesus! The 'elites' have always been, in the main, thugs (in one way or another) or descendants of thugs. Very many of them, especially military leaders and politicians, have also been incompetent and/or terminally corrupt. Personally I give no-one respect (other than the normal respect due to fellow human beings) who hasn't genuinely done something to merit it. Oh, and incidentally I'm totally against mass immigration (invasion...?) and in favour of immigration at reasonable levels in terms of number and time - after all, we and/or our ancestors are or were all immigrants to somewhere, sometime...
19:21 December 23, 2011 by Snob
James

I have not supported contemporary elites...at all!! I agree with you 100%

2.0 The social disorder is being analyzed under taboo terms and conditions and we can never get to the bottom of things...and elite has become a dirty word...its cool and breezy in Nordic society to say elites are thugs and I respect all as same...but I am afraid James if you want a society which can hold on to some cohesion then there are few things emerging

2.1 need for tradition and custom and legacy and please lets not be cool Swede about this...people need and yearn for military uniforms and band music and some things which can connect them together, I find it abhorrent that Military symbols are systematically suppressed in public and why?? They need not be vicious and war-mongering variety...

2.2 Its all fine to say we will respect all equal and only the mindless middle-class meritocratic achievements of cracking thesis and exams need respect...but I m afraid you need some symbolic upper class steeped in local culture and traditions and which can encompass and engage people across all sections of society...

2.3 Look your society or all societies tolerate vulgar IT millionaires but not cultural or traditional distinctions so lets cut this crap of equality its only cultural and not economic....

Please acknowledge that far-right is a symbol of yearning for cultural and moral clarity in society, please look around what do you offer as an inspiration to the young drunken rich who can crack computer codes and swear filthy language thinking its cool...WE IN EUROPE ARE FACING A SERIOUS CIVILIZATIONAL CRISIS!!

Immigration problem is just a symptom of wider social malaise, when you have a problem with an outsider its also a reflection of some problems which you face within you...and this is the typical reaction from likes of you in Europe one hand controlled immigration and on the other hand cool liberal egalitarian society...does it really work like that?? How can you have dominant culture of a society intact without a custodian class?? My modest reading of history does not show this apart from rubbish post-modernism variety...

Besides I have referred to Churchill as an instance of elite leadership which I don't think was incompetent by any stretch of imagination and definitely not corrupt!!!
22:31 December 23, 2011 by james_g
Snob, I think you're one of those people it's pointless trying to argue or negotiate with - like religious fundamentalists, or 'commie' fundamentalists (there's a reason for commie being in quotes but I won't go into that now), or capitalist fundamentalists, etc...
08:02 December 24, 2011 by Rick Methven
@james_g

Snob will either by now have been put back under medication in the mental institution he has been committed to, or if still on the loose will be in Cambridge outside the hospital where Phil the Greek is recovering from heart surgery. worshipping his revered born to rule English elite.
11:03 December 24, 2011 by Snob
Thanks for just third-rate cheap disgusting potshots.

I can only testify that you are dragging English elite only for undue provocation and I have nothing to do with UK but we were talking about the blooming Nordic 'cool lads' like yourself!! Winston Churchill was a hero for the Western world...atleast I am not worshiping some single-mother twit who is so cool with funky hairstyle of Swedish aristocracy and so mediocre and ordinary that some angry men vote far-right parties!! Brilliant....

Its a pity that Rick does not have the capability to answer the points head-on and how much pain will OUR Sweden suffer before the mediocre minds like James can be shut up...I wonder why our far-right parties dont win 100% votes with such idiocy....its a wonder!!!
13:02 December 24, 2011 by Rick Methven
@ Snob "I can only testify that you are dragging English elite only for undue provocation and I have nothing to do with UK"

Really? from all your ramblings you have shown that you are just a rambling idiot who is in love with all things English. As to answering your points head on, what point have you made in any post you have made on this forum that is either coherent or worthy of answering to. I suppose that as it is Christmas, we should be kinder to pathetic trolls such as yourself.....

But on the other hand..... maybe not
14:40 December 24, 2011 by Snob
Rick

Its clearly shows your poor grasp of English language that you resort to words like idiot and the only the only English name I mentioned is Churchill...I guess he's more than a Brit hero..perhaps the language I use bothers you and I can provide you with an online dictionary...I am amazed how you sniff my love of English when I am critiquing Multi-Kulti.

Well kindly read my points please bother to read carefully and if not for the sake of other readers I shall mention it once again. I do not think I need to come on a slug fest on an online forum for worthy points since there are enough academic outlets and please don't digress from the points of discussions.

Use of language like pathetic trolls only divert the attention from the seriousness of the issue...if you are incapable of academic discourse then better refrain and not degenerate the conservative critique...

let me ask you a blunt bloody question and you don't have to be darn kind, I can resort to the gutter language as well mate:

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA ABOUT THE FAR-RIGHT RISE IN SWEDEN OR NORDIC COUNTRIES??

HAVE YOU THE DEPTH AND KNOWLEDGE TO PRESENT A COHERENT ANALYSIS OF THEM??

If you can I shall concede defeat to my sparkling bright Rick which haven't manifested in any of your earlier posts...

Mate I can also get into abusive filth like you and with a name like Rick Methven one suspects your self-hatred of the English which I have nothing to do and neither one of them.

GO ON NOW....EXPLAIN THE RISE OF FAR-RIGHT AND THEIR DESPISE OF THE ELITES...
15:28 December 24, 2011 by bcterry
"Its clearly shows your poor grasp of English language that you resort to words like idiot and the only the only English name I mentioned is Churchill...I guess he's more than a Brit hero..perhaps the language I use bothers you and I can provide you with an online dictionary...I am amazed how you sniff my love of English when I am critiquing Multi-Kulti.

Well kindly read my points please bother to read carefully and if not for the sake of other readers I shall mention it once again. I do not think I need to come on a slug fest on an online forum for worthy points since there are enough academic outlets and please don't digress from the points of discussions."

It's a complete waste of time trying to get this troll to engage in a factual discussion, his sole purpose is to patrol these threads and offer nothing but pompous arrogant insults.

You offer facts, he offers insults.
16:34 December 24, 2011 by Snob
bcterry

I have never had the opportunity to communicate with you since never had any response and the question of insult does not arise..and you are taking sides with

Rick which is unfortunate.

I would be very sad and disappointed if my remarks are seen as insults except for Rick who used the word idiot and troll I didn't and even now I refrain any filthy language with you. So its more a response to Rick rather than the intelligent readers like you.

Now getting factual:

1.0 My entire focus is on the far-right discourse of Nordic belt like Sweden, Norway and hence very limited area of discussions.

2.0 I have worked with the sociology of far-right groups in Europe as well as the immigrant rights group.

3.0 I find that its astonishing that despite a small percentage of migrants there is so much anguish and hatred as manifested with the far-right rhetoric. So I presumed that there must be something beyond conventional anti-immigrant feelings and something deeper. Please feel free to disagree and offer alternative explanations as this is my purely personal interpretation.

4.0 I have conducted a Discourse Analysis of far-right manifestos and speeches and internet text which is my source of facts and found the tremendous anti-elitism and the word 'elites' keeps popping up nearly in every paragraph.

5.0 Please read the manifesto of Breivik and you will realize that this far-right anger is no longer a dichotomy of us and them but far deeper dissatisfaction with the social structures.

6.0 I feel alarmed bcterry with the Oslo incident which happens to be my favourite city in Europe and the terrible bloodshed unfolded on the screen.

This prompted me to take to blog discussions since mainstream academic conversation is becoming highly censored. Hope you realize that many mainstream liberal intellectuals are turning to such malice against censorship.

Look forward to any factual discussion rather than personal abuse of Rick variety....and I am willing to be proven wrong not by words like troll and idiot...which are just terms even I can paste on these threads!!
17:54 December 24, 2011 by bcterry
I was talking about Methven, sorry for the confusion, my apologies.
18:55 December 24, 2011 by Snob
thanks...I am glad about that!!!

Nevertheless I would welcome your views and opinions!!
20:52 December 24, 2011 by bcterry
The reason i chimed in was because of the totally uncalled for vicious insulting personal attack towards you.

I've seen in time and again from this poster.

I'm a Canadian, my knowledge of your political system is limited, therefore i cannot give an educated opinion, or response to most of your points.

I will comment however on Breivic.

Whether or not he had valid concerns, his response and actions clearly shows they were that of a deranged madman,

There is simply no way of ever making any sense of his actions.

He's where he belongs, and he should be kept institutionalized for life.

I tuned into this article because i am a strong advocate against all forms of racism, hate, bigotry, intolerance, inequality, subjugation and fascist ideologies, religious or political.

Once again, sorry for the confusion.

Have a Merry Christmas.
22:31 December 24, 2011 by Snob
Absolutely!! I agree with you that Breivik is a complete insane nutcase....

What worries me is that there is a prevalent ideology built up around this loss of identity and cultural dislocation, and what concerns me is we need addressing it.There are now good number of young people who are drifting towards this kind of militaristic ideology and I can only assure of the lurking danger since I have seen first-hand the organized rational hate ideology emerging among nordic youth which is visible in the number of hits of these dangerous websites.

I for sure do not wish to give any legitimacy to this far-right thinking. I think if this is the symptom of a disease then it needs urgent treatment like a clinical doctor so there is no good or bad disease in terms of the judgment but only something which needs to be cured...

Canada US have the advantage of strong inclusive national symbols and cultures like ice-hockey, national day celebrations which allow the immigrants to participate in public life. Here in EU unfortunately the national symbols have been appropriated by the ugly far-right and even if they do celebrate then its to exclude the immigrant like you see in sports events.

Besides there is not this strange liberal left which offers no national open culture for newcomers to integrate but demean and dismiss the icons of the host country. Irony is the elites have never welcomed the immigrants and have only 'tolerated' them like in Canadian airports you find Asian immigration officers which is a rarity in Nordic EU and you have very successful role models of immigrants in education, technology, business and this is surely not the case in Sweden and on the other hand the average population is accusing the elites of being way too liberal...poor immigrant is sandwiched between an indifferent establishment elite and a hostile general population...I see storm clouds gathering in terms of social cohesion here in Europe.

A moment of respite from distressing topics....

Wishing you a Merry Christmas!!
19:56 December 25, 2011 by Aigulle Delaz
@ Snob, the example of Winston Churchill is very pertinent considering he was MP for a constituency up the road from me when he was Prime Minister. It is very true using it in referring to the Modern Swedish White kid. He/She has no hope of being 'allowed' to been Swedish in the actual sense of the word ! Same as in the UK where the political elite has purposely sown the seeds of discontent and disunity by allowing all the fringe nations to get away with their xenophobic lies, whilst implicitly choking 'English nationality' and trying to submerge it forthwith by labelling it 'British'.

"Sweden is a cesspool of middle-class mediocrity and they keep yelling that this deranged egalitarianism is their culture, why don't you look at early 20th century or 19th century?? There were great strides in social equality then as well with democratic movements BUT there was a CLEAR DEFINED ELITE WHICH REPRESENTED WESTERN CULTURE AND SOPHISTICATION..why dont we bloody get it!!"

Again, the same has happened in Britain as if it is a Protestant trait throughout Northern Europe. We had the Butler Act 1948 which regularised the 'Tripartite' Education system of Grammar-to- Secondary Moderns with Technical Schools in the middle.

This system was the envy of the world and it was a true meritocracy that allowed the best to succeed whoever one was. It was taken away however by the libertarian cum utopianistic new establishment (Labour Harold Wilson/Jim Callaghan both grammar educated) that wanted to disenfranchise Britons and thoroughly engineer a hideous mutation that kicked all the old institutions of meritocracy, nationality and tradition to the ground and brought up new fads that have diluted the aforesaid and thus, led to a situation of 'want want want' and no give. The situation in Sweden is even worse and seems the 'Final Destination' towards whence the UK will end up if it continues to slide about in such complacent ways that are proving fertile ground for many immigrants who are highly undesirable to the land and its people.

I definitely agree with thy last comment in the reply to me as well because without doing so, how are we to succeed?
12:44 December 26, 2011 by Snob
"It is nearly 50 years since Sir Winston Churchill died. When the boat containing his coffin passed through Docklands, London dockers lowered their cranes as a mark of respect. It was such a profoundly moving moment because these working men were saying that, while Churchill had been born an aristocrat, he was also one of them because he had led them in the war against fascism. I wonder how many of those dockers would have paid such a tribute to...."

excerpts from an article in the The Telegraph, UK and I have decided to omit the name since I wonder if any politician anywhere in Western EU would command such a respect...

You See Delaz the average white kid is made to feel guilty of their history, abandoned by the elites who are ashamed of their European heritage and no role models apart from filthy rich like IKEA founder or the celebrity sportsperson. Shameless celebration of rich and wealthy even in Nordic states supposedly welfare models generate greed and avarice amongst the young kids.

Unfortunately the only ones whether in UK or Sweden the only parties which celebrate European heritage in its truest form are the far-right and only in their website you find poetry of national poets and glory of battles fought.

I am convinced that UK is facing a similar problem worsened by a growing gap between the rich and the poor!! Multicultulralism is dis-empowering the larger population at the expense of some defunct ideas of globalization.
18:26 January 12, 2012 by mikewhite
Racists don't have a good sense of rhythm ...
23:49 September 10, 2012 by B.olesen
@14:01 December 19, 2011 by muntazir

You are a liar - that quote regarding the killing of the nonbelievers was during a speech in which Mohammed told his followers to WAIT until the treaty had expired, then to go kill all pagans. In this particular reference the non-believers were the non judaeo christian polytheists and the only reason he wanted them plagued and killed is because they were pagans.

AS IT TURNS OUT - SOME OF US CAN READ and have taken the time to read the koran and the elements that many of the popularly quoted muslim texts are taken from.

I have read it all, and I have even read the explanations given by muslim clerics and religious leaders. ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN - jihad, holy war, and people being given a choice between DEATH or conversion is the islamic way. Please don't take intelligent well educated people who know how to read and write, and treat them like some backwoods illiterate Afghani mountain man who believes anything anybody says as fact. You come off sounding REALLY stupid.

Also, I am sick of being called a whore, screamed at, cursed at, spit on, life threatened by every muslim immigrant I ask to stop screaming in the middle of the night; don't block the bicycle path with your gangs; why are you throwing bags of garbage on the walkway in front of my apartment when there are garbage cans placed every 10 meters; stop throwing garbage out of your second floor windows and tell your kids to stop; put a leash on your pit bull you are walking through a child's playground; why are you riding souped up scooters 50 KPM down bicycle paths in suburbs where they are not allowed and where 2 year olds play and run on; you know NORMAL things that NORMAL adult females usually can tell teenagers without being screamed at, called a whore, bodily intimidated, threatened with 'illegal things I will do to you and your family if you call the police' and kicked in the stomach on my way to Willys for asking "why do you always have to block up the bicycle path" WHICH I would have asked of any group of teens, regardless of race-country of origin or religion- because, you know, OVER HERE people try to actually raise their kids and not allow their 10 year olds to roam the streets at 2am on a school night while turning into packs of feral wild animals. I was in a centrum parking garage at 19 o'clock and the lot was filled with gangs of boys aged 10 up to 17 screaming and basically standing around for what reason? It felt extremely unsafe and why should I have to live that way. Why should ANYBODY have to live that way. If YOU want to live that way - fine, go away and do it in China or something.
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