• Sweden edition
 

Security raised at Jewish schools in Sweden

Published: 20 Mar 2012 07:03 GMT+01:00
Updated: 20 Mar 2012 07:03 GMT+01:00

Security has been tightened at Jewish schools in Sweden after the murder of three children and a teacher at a Jewish school in France is suspected to be the work of a serial killer.

"We have raised it (security) a little extra in places where we have children and young people," Lena Posner-Koeroesi, who heads the Official Council of Swedish Jewish Communities, told the Svenska Dagbladet newspaper.

Posner-Koeroesi, whose council represents Jewish congregations across Sweden, said personnel at the Jewish schools and other institutions run by the congregations were "well-prepared" and had "routines for how to go out with information and for what kind of measures are needed" in such situations.

There has been no apparent panic among parents and children, he added.

The security hike came after a gunman opened fire at the Ozar Hatorah school in Toulouse, killing two boys aged three and six and their father, a 30-year-old religious studies teacher, who witnesses later said was trying to protect the children, along with the 10-year-old daughter of the director of the school.

The gunman, who also critically injured a 17-year-old boy, escaped on what

witnesses said was a powerful scooter.

Last week, three French paratroopers - all of North African descent - were killed in two similar incidents in the same region, also involving a scooter-rider wielding the same powerful .45 calibre handgun.

AFP/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

10:09 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80
I can't believe there even are Jewish schools in Sweden. Or any schools which discriminate based on religion and race. It's an outrage, shut them down.

You must be naive if you believe that teachers in these "schools" are going teach about science and other religions without prejudice.
10:22 March 20, 2012 by OUIJA
10:09 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80

For the type of your comment, I can clearly see that you need an exorcism. Unfortunately, Max von Sidow is very busy.
10:24 March 20, 2012 by motti
@RosemaryBaby80. Why shouldn't there be Jewish schools? In the UK, Jewish schools are very popular with Christian and even some Muslims clamouring to get in. Why? Simple, their educational top achievements speak volumes.

Your post is rather ignorant in its view. Have you been to a Jewish school in order to look at what they teach? Yes, they do teach bible and the Talmud. So what? Korea teaches the Talmud in schools,as they respect and admire Jewish traditions. Some of the top Jewish scientists at NASA wear the "kippa," meaning they are Jewish educated and still have ability to mix religion and science quite easily.

I met the author of the Big Bang Theory in London and he fits the above description.

Jewish schools do not teach hatred of others, nor are Jews expected to act against the country they live in, and that includes Sweden. Synagogues around the world pray for the monarch and leaders of government during the usual Sabbath services.

Perhaps, you might want to visit one, then decide how you want to think. You will be perfectly safe, have no fear. Judaism is not a religion that practises conversion. Unlike christianity and Islam.
11:19 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80
@motti

Science & religion don't mix, full stop.

Please tell me the names of these scientist at NASA who are practicing Jews because I can't find them on the net.

No I haven't been to a Jewish school. But I know for a fact many (if not all) require the parents to be interviewed in regards to their faith, herritage, etc.

If they do not discriminate at all, why call themselves Jewish Schools?

I never said that they teach hate. But how can a school that is based on a religion that says the earth is 5000 years old, go ahead and teach Evolutionary biology with out sending mixed signals to the students.

I went to a Catholic Boarding School and I know that there they were not very thorough in teaching this subject.

(Yes, I am an atheist)
11:27 March 20, 2012 by EP
@RosemarysBaby80

Why not? Isn't freedom of religion part of free-speech and democracy? After all Sweden prides itself on being open and democratic, or is it only open and democratic if it's done "the Swedish way"
11:45 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80
@EP

Your free to speak about and praise what/who you want. Just keep religion away from schools and politics.

With the exception of teaching it from a purely historical and sociological perspective.
12:22 March 20, 2012 by Reason abd Realism
@ RosemarysBaby80

Intelligent people generally do not recognize religion be an authority on science.

Einstein was religious in that he often wondered about the thinkings of the creator, and I've met some extraordinary theoretical physicists who are extremely religious, and yet who do not for a moment believe the Bible literally.

Religions do not run around telling us that water boils at 80 C rather than 100 C, and children can be told to ignore creation myths, if that is what you object to. It will not harm their future careers as scientists, if that is the career choice they will later make.
12:48 March 20, 2012 by irridium
It will be interesting to see how this plays out i.e. far right or Islamist.

The linkage between French soldiers of North African and Caribbean origin and Jewish victims could be connected with either side's motives. The far right targeting ethnic groups or Islamists for ethnic and political motives (French military in Afghanistan).

The outcome will have a large part in the upcoming elections, of that we can be sure of.
13:15 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80
@Reason abd Realison

Although only Einstein can really answer the question, most believe that he only ever spoke about "god" in the metaphorical sense.

Very few are able to take the bible literally anymore, (with the exception of fundermentalist) thanks to science.

Who are these physicists?

What's your point?
14:23 March 20, 2012 by Andrea77
Reply to RosemaryBaby no.2

Most teachers of secular subjects at the Jewish School in Stockholm are Swedish, i.e. not Jewish. The school conforms to the standards of the Swedish educational system. Most pupils continue in the normal Swedish "gymnasium". They do quite well. The Jewish God has never prohibited Jews from being smart - whether you like it or not.
14:45 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80
@Andrea77

Your "reply" has no relevance to anything I've said.
14:46 March 20, 2012 by Reason abd Realism
@ RosemarysBaby80 Post 11

Two points:

1 - The 'science' brain of children will not be ruined by exposure to religion at a religious school.

2 - The real lesson that religions inadvertently provide to children, by 'teaching' scientific nonsense, is extremely valuable, and it is: Some parents will lie to you, or more specifically they will broadcast information that makes no sense, and that you (the child) need to learn to make up your own mind at times about some subjects.

Responsible parents will help their children with both of these items, and tell their children to focus on the cultural and social merits of the teachings of their particular religion, which should take up the majority of the time during religious teaching time anyway, and to leave real science to the scientists.
14:57 March 20, 2012 by Svensksmith
Great. Another nutjob on the loose, killing kids.
15:42 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80
@Reason abd Realism

So your saying that teaching religion should take priority over subjects like biology, chemistry and math? hmmmmm...

The term "science brain" doesn't mean a thing. I'd like to know which published study on pediatric psychology you got it from.

Do you know how much all those years in a catholic school helped me? Zero. Social skills and morals are learnt via time and experience in the REAL word.
16:17 March 20, 2012 by Reason abd Realism
@ RosemarysBaby80

I never wrote that religious teaching should take priority over biology, chemistry, math.

The term 'science brain' is one that I invented, and whose meaning I had assumed would be self-evident. Let me re-phrase it as: 'The ability of a child to learn real science, either now of in the future'. That ability is not forever ruined by a religion class that teaches the fairy tale of the creation of the world in 7 days.

On the one hand religious schools tend to 'waste' time on religion, but on the other hand there may be better discipline enforcement within religious schools, which can improve the teaching quality during the time spent on core curriculum subjects.

If you feel that much of your time was wasted, then like all of these childhood issues, you can to a large extent blame your parents for the choices they made for you, and simply make sure that you do not repeat these mistakes with your own children.
16:38 March 20, 2012 by strixy
I wouldn't be surprised if that nutcase was inspired by Quran. After all Quran is full of anti Jewish stuff.
16:41 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80
@Reason abd Realism

You seem quite neutral on the subject when it comes down to it.

Higher discipline in the class room will not effect students who don't want to learn. How a child acts in the class room falls back mostly to the parents in my opinion. But of course there can be many reasons why children act out.

The whole time my problem has been with mixed messages being sent to students. eg. In one class they're told the earth is 4.5 billion years old, then in the next class they're told "No, actually it's 5000 years old".

And prejudice against who can attend the school. Like I pointed out earlier, if they have no prerequisites, why call it a Jewish school?
17:24 March 20, 2012 by irridium
pretty quick to jump to conclusions there... Do you know something the French police don't?

Sgt Imad Ibn Ziaten was lured to his murder by the potential sale of his MC. In the ad, he mentioned being a soldier but there was absolutely no mention of his name, thus his ancestry could not be known.

Both sides have motives, hopefully we will have an answer soon when they catch this lunatic.
17:29 March 20, 2012 by Reason abd Realism
@ RosemarysBaby80

My view is simply that is the state spends 20,000 SEK/year/child on education (or whatever the number is), then parents should have the right to apply that credit to a private school of their choice, and then pay any extra that this school demands of the parents out of their own pockets.

The private school would have to meet educational standards as evident from nation-wide testing scores (another thing lacking in Sweden), but otherwise would be free to, and would be held responsible, to teach religion in a non-hateful way.

The name 'Jewish School' may simply imply that the only religious courses offered are based on Judaism, which may be the wishes of the school's founders. I do not know the admission rules in Sweden, but as post 4 indicated there are many non Jewish attendees of so called Jewish schools in the UK at least, simply because of the excellent academic standards.

If there are no explicit admission restricitons then you could send your children there. And by the laws of supply and demand, the many parents who do not want to mix education and religion should have a few secular private schools to choose from as well.

As for mixed messages, as I wrote earlier, the ability to discriminate fact from fiction, and to take information in context ('science as believed by scripture writes in 23 A. D. vs. science today) is something that all students need to learn, hopefully with guidance from parents if they have any doubts about which is more accurate.

All this to say that I for one do not have any problem with private schools in Sweden, be they Jewish or non-Jewish.
17:35 March 20, 2012 by RobinHood
All religious schools in all civilized countries have to follow the national curriculum, including science subjects. No exceptions. Religous schools that tell students that the earth is 5 000 years old, or that Jews are dirty, or that Islam is synoymous to terrorism, or that Darwin got it all wrong, are way off the curriculum, and risk being shut down.

Well-managed religious schools find no difficulty dealing with this, and deliver excellent education blended with religous worship and values. Many, many very clever and talented people were educated at religous schools.

Rosemary's Baby, you really need to get out more. Clearly your school was not well-managed, and clearly you have suffered as a consequence.
18:10 March 20, 2012 by Iraniboy
This is the issue of life and death and those(like Rosemary) who speculate about life or death of people with a religious belonging in 21th century are way behind the religious people on 20th century!

@strixy

Well apparently the nutcase was inspired by your values which are basically ABCPhobia to anything except your values!
18:15 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80
@RobinHood

A rather snide and assumptious comment to finish with there Robin. And you know what they say about assumption don't you? It's the mother of all F-up's.

Don't act like you know everything about the way all schools are managed in all countries unless you give me a reason to believe you.

I have only written about the fact that religious schools have prerequisites for what a student can and cannot be. And the fact that just the term "Faith Schools" suggests there's going to be conflicts of interest.
18:41 March 20, 2012 by RobinHood
@RosemarysBaby

Would this be the same Rosemarysbaby who believes there are no Jews at NASA #6, and who learned nothing at school #16, and who has no apparent comprehension what a national curriculum might be #25?

I think it's a pretty safe assumption you went to a poorly managed school, and desperately need a proper education at a good one before you can expect to be taken seriously here. Don't you?
18:45 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80
@ RobinHood

Like I said, all F-up's.
19:02 March 20, 2012 by Iraniboy
@RosemarysBaby80

People of a same religion have so much in common as all Mathematician or all Biologists do! They are exposed to a certain varying information and even if they study the same book their understanding would differ a lot based on many factors. In the end despite all wrong and right information they have learnt they end up with a a very weak or strong Biologist, a kind mother or a killer. Same goes for Jews, Atheists, Muslims, Christians etc.

In the end I should say that science is not a substitute to diesm, Athesim is! And it is not scientific either. Atheism is also a religion for itself because it has its own assumption for God. So it's better live with all different religions rather than to try to eliminate them. The consequence of eliminating has proven to be extremely harmful.
19:34 March 20, 2012 by Andrea77
Reply to RosemarysBaby80 no 13

Reply to RosemaryBaby no. 13

Indeed it does. I shall spell it out to make things easy: Secular subjects you worry about, science for example, are taught by Swedish teachers without interference by God.

We are talking about a Jewish school in Sweden, not a school in a Haredi community in Israel or USA.

You were worried that science could not be taught without prejudice. 2+2 remains 4. With or without God.
20:27 March 20, 2012 by RosemarysBaby80
I'm not going to reply to anymore posts directed at me.

A fight won on the Internet is a fight lost for humanity.
20:32 March 20, 2012 by OUIJA
To all the posters:

You have given too much space to RosemarysBaby80. Do not forget that she is the one that wrote:

1.-"I can't believe there even are Jewish schools in Sweden."

She must live in Timbuktu.

2.- "Please tell me the names of these scientist at NASA who are practicing Jews because I can't find them on the net."

She could not find the names on the net, because the names are at NASA. In other words, she cannot see the light, because she is blind.

3.- "If they do not discriminate at all, why call themselves Jewish Schools?"

Because a German school is called a German school, a British

school is called a British school, and so on. Very intelligent analysis, indeed

4.- "Although only Einstein can really answer the question, most believe that he only ever spoke about "god" in the metaphorical sense."

Here, Rosemarybaby80 jumps into conclussions. Her "most" is nothing more and nothing else but a "I", unless she has data that supports her statement, and I do not believe she has some sort of data.

5.- "Your "reply" has no relevance to anything I've said."

No more debate: Al Gore.

6.- "So your saying that teaching religion should take priority over subjects like biology, chemistry and math? hmmmmm.."

Reason abd Realism never said that. I have revised his threads and there is nothing like that. Ergo, the soon to be exorcised simply made this up to look good and "cultured".

7.- "A rather snide and assumptious comment to finish with there Robin. And you know what they say about assumption don't you? It's the mother of all F-up's."

And the mother's name is Rosemarybaby80 who, in my opinion, jumps from conclussion to conclussion without links at all.

Just send her again to Father Merrin and let us pray for her once upon a time, catholic soul.
21:58 March 20, 2012 by Radhus
Maybe I'll be wrong in the end (though I rarely am), but I bet these shootings are the work of someone of the islamic faith. Doesn't like jews and doesn't like soldiers because of France's presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. I smell it from here.
08:05 March 21, 2012 by OUIJA
#30 @ Rosemarysbaby80

Is it a promise? Or are you threatening us.

Just for your information, you did not win any fight at Internet, because you do not even know how to handle it. Besides, Internet is the biggest army in the world, for those who know how to command it.

In your comment about Einstein, you goofed completely, as well in your comment about Jews at NASA.

It was Einstein who said tha he did not believe in GOD, in a PERSONAL GOD, the one you pray for winning the lottery or to fix your brains, RoseMary. He clearly said that he believed in something bigger than that, the one who had created the whold Universe.

And in Google, if you write correctly what you are looking for, Google will provide answers. But Rossy: In Google you find hundreds of information in favour or against of what you are looking for. And do not trust too much in Wikipedia, either.

.
12:35 March 21, 2012 by irridium
This guy already shot at the cops through the door and is armed with an AK, Uzi and several handguns. Sounds like an upstanding citizen.... Hilarious that he through a 0.45 out of the window in exchange for the phone. If that is the one used in the killing, it will almost be comical.
13:12 March 21, 2012 by bcterry
Now we see that this madman was just fulfilling his religious duty as mandated in the koran.

Allahu akbar.
14:07 March 21, 2012 by cogito
@bcterry,

That would be the Religion of Peace, right?
14:58 March 21, 2012 by bcterry
That would be the Religion of Peace, right?

That's the one.

Peace for everyone who is muslim, and all others who agree to live without freedom as second class dhimmis under islamic fascist rule.

Those who refuse suffer the consequences.

Correction on first post.

"Now we see that this madman was just fulfilling his religious duty as mandated in the koran, 'and the hadith'.
17:50 March 21, 2012 by Iraniboy
@bcterry and cognito

If this mad man is just following Koran as you claim why aren't other 1 billion Muslims following Koran then?!!! 1 billions Muslims are not Muslim then! Your claim is just pathetic and illogical. It is like saying that Austrian guy was raping his daughter since she was born is just following his non-religious duty that is hared among all non-religious people.
18:55 March 21, 2012 by bcterry
@Iraniboy,

Link,

Excerpt,

"73% of Palestinians agree with genocidal hadith about Muslims killing Jews hiding behind trees"

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews." -- Sahih Muslim 6985

Read on in the link for more.

There are also many inflammatory quotes about jews in the koran, here's a couple of gems,

The most vehement of mankind in hostility [are] the Jews and the idolators.[Surah V, v. 82]

Taste ye [Jews] the punishment of burning.[Surah III, v. 18 1]

BTW,

10:55 March 20, 2012 by Iraniboy

Hypocrisy at its highest level?!

It is extremely fascinating that SD cares about women with immigrant background yet it wants to expel all of them out Sweden."

I asked you for a link to that, when can i expect to get one?
19:50 March 21, 2012 by Iraniboy
@bcterry

First off my questions was very explicit and you are not answering it since it explicitly reveals how your ridiculous method can be extend to you and many others.

'If this mad man is just following Koran as you claim why aren't other 1 billion Muslims following Koran then?!!!'

1 billions Muslims know that those quotes from Quran are in most of case referring to a specific incident but obviously you and this idiot today don't.

Second, what Palestinians think about Israelis is not relevant here. They are in war with Israelis as Germans and French were in war. Israelis hate Palestinians the same amount as Palestinians do if not more for your record they have killed more Palestinians.

As for SD it is not a hidden agenda that they want to get rid of all immigrants.
20:03 March 21, 2012 by zooeden
The truth is whoever wants to kill you will probably succeed so... heavy as led...
20:30 March 21, 2012 by bcterry
19:50 March 21, 2012 by Iraniboy ,

My post said,

"Now we see that this madman was just fulfilling his religious duty as mandated in the koran, 'and the hadith'. "

You questioned it, i gave you the quotes.

Are you denying that those quotes could spur this madman on to kill jews, and many other madmen who have also done the same.?

Are you denying that muslims have persecuted jews and christians since the inception of islam, that continues to this day?

And that your koran is full of hate for both groups?

2 months ago in Egypt, a muslim brotherhood rally in one of the largest ended with 5,000 all screaming "death to all jews".

Those are all simple documented facts.

"As for SD it is not a hidden agenda that they want to get rid of all immigrants."

Just simply give me one link where they say that specifically, and i will yield.

I've searched for it, but cannot find anything where they state that.
20:53 March 21, 2012 by Iraniboy
I'm denying that based on a fact there are 1 billion Muslims living on this planet who do not follow the rubbish your have just posted otherwise if each wanted to kill one non-Muslim the entire Europe and the US were dead by now. I'm talking based on facts not propaganda.

There are too many examples of Non-religious, Christian and Jewish murderer but they never represent the entire population they belong and that's the right approach! The latest one killed 15 innocent children in Afghanistan last week. The fact that these are not counted on your list is another story!
21:01 March 21, 2012 by bcterry
"I'm denying that based on a fact there are 1 billion Muslims living on this planet who do not follow the rubbish your have just posted otherwise if each wanted to kill one non-Muslim the entire Europe and the US were dead by now. I'm talking based on facts not propaganda."

As your not denying the facts i gave you, i'll assume you are confirming them.

There are too many examples of Non-religious, Christian and Jewish murderer but they never represent the entire population they belong and that's the right approach! The latest one killed 15 innocent children in Afghanistan last week. The fact that these are not counted on your list is another story! "

If this was an article on that killing, i would condemn that as well.

Any other non-related articles you wish to divert to?
22:01 March 21, 2012 by irridium
iraniboy, Why do you keep putting non religious into the mix. Are you just including any non religious people that have committed some sort of crime? I don't know of anyone using passages from 'The Descent of Man' as justification for committing murder.. And please don't go confusing communism and atheism like so many people.
22:27 March 21, 2012 by Iraniboy
@bcterry

It is very related. It actually shows how it turns out extremely bad for yours side if someone tries to apply your method. Even if you condemn that killing it doesn't change the fact that he was one among you.

@irridium

Apparently non-religious and even Christians and Jews have been widely successful to detach themselves from the nut jobs among themselves and it is a very good thing and I support it! Unfortunately Muslims have been very unsuccessful thanks to our biased medias. Anyone, even those non-religious nut jobs or good people, have a a book of passages in their own mind. Each religious person has also a different understanding of what he has read from that 'The descent man book'. So in the end everyone has that and we may get it from different sources. In fact all soldiers in any army in the world from the US to the UK to Japan have some deluded passages to take revenge on a supposedly dangerous enemy!
23:13 March 21, 2012 by Uncle
Oh. God.. Took a break of like 4 months, came back and the same iraniboy is repeating the same bag of...

"Unfortunately Muslims have been very unsuccessful thanks to our biased medias"

Japp... Muslims were not capable to detach themselves from the minority of murderers because of the biased media... Poor little things.

A minority of muslims murdered 10 million people in the middle east and Africa in the past 50 years... A minority of muslim countries is bloody dictatorship.. Minority of muslim societies execute gays and oppress women... Minority of muslims marry their daughters against their will and forbid them to study... Minority of islam infected countries has lowest economies in the world unless they bath in oil. Minority of these countries engages in forcefully suppressing revolts, minority of revolutionaries there is lynching people live on TV, minority of muslims is engaging in majority of all terrorist attacks and minority of muslim countries sponsor majority of terror cells and slave trafficking...

But if the media would not be BIASED, then we would see the greatness of any thriving nation under this religion, that gave so much to the world! Then the MAJORITY of the muslims would be disconnected from the pity-lity-tiny minority that commits all of the above on a daily basis.

Oh, sorry... I am being biased again on media. Hope that some minority member will not try to throw undeserved dirt on the good name of islam by beheading me...
07:25 March 22, 2012 by bcterry
"It is very related. It actually shows how it turns out extremely bad for yours side if someone tries to apply your method. Even if you condemn that killing it doesn't change the fact that he was one among you. "

Sorry, i'm not a member of the U.S. military.

My "method" has been backed by the factual examples i've provided, and from you ............???

"Apparently non-religious and even Christians and Jews have been widely successful to detach themselves from the nut jobs among themselves and it is a very good thing and I support it! Unfortunately Muslims have been very unsuccessful thanks to our biased medias."

The reason the media is "bias", is because examples of present day muslim "nut jobs", the fact is that they out numbers their nearest rivals by a at least 1,000 to one.

The media doesn't report 1/10th of it.

After asking you 3 times for a link of proof that S.D. has called for the expulsion of all immigrants, you have provided nothing, so to put it politely, we'll just assume it is a fabrication.
10:47 March 22, 2012 by redblue
Anders Breivik is a Zionist who hates muslims. Mohammed Merah is muslim who hates Zionists. Although both are murderers/terrorist, they are on the opposite side on the political spectrum.
12:29 March 22, 2012 by bcterry
More "biased reporting by the media"

"A police official says the suspect in a three-attack killing spree who claims links to al-Qaeda is dead following a 32-hour standoff in Toulouse, France.

Interior Minister Claude Gueant said in the morning that the suspect had not contacted negotiators since late Wednesday.

Authorities say Merah boasted about carrying out the shootings of three Jewish schoolchildren, a rabbi, and three French paratroopers in three separate incidents over the last two weeks.

They are believed to be the first incidents of killings inspired by Islamic radical motives in France in more than a decade."

Of course we all know that is a lie, "just to make it look like he did it aka the fall guy", ........ right Towbrigdge H. Ford?
13:22 March 22, 2012 by bcterry
"I blame the French counterterrorists for not stopping Merah in his tracks, especially after the first shooting incident occurred, since he had long been on their watch list, and 'radar.'"

Did you ever stop to think that there are probably dozens like Merah on their watch list, and without any conclusive evidence that made them sure that he was their man, they would not apprehend and lock him up just on a whim.

Should they have rounded them all up and held them with nothing conclusive?

If in fact they did just that, the muslims and the bleeding hearts would be on the war path for holding them without evidence.

Maybe you would have been one of them?

Literally ALL of your conclusions are nothing but speculation, with absolutely NO basis in fact.

You weren't there, and you have no idea of what tactics were implemented, or what special circumstances were involved.
13:57 March 22, 2012 by bcterry
Alright, you are absolutely right on your conclusions, and there could be absolutely no other options than the ones you've provided.

"Why be such an apologist when you weren't, it seems, there apparently either? "

I'm not apologizing for anything, i'm just like all the rest, except you, who does not have verifiable conclusive proof.

Does that about sum it up, or have i got something else wrong?

Let me know, so i don't make the same mistake again by questioning anything else in your future posts.
14:20 March 22, 2012 by Greysuede
With those being all around I think we all non-Semites need protection too!
14:30 March 22, 2012 by bcterry
"The only way to have conclusive proof is to have had a successful conviction of the suspect - what has all been ruled out by his killing - like in Oswald's case in assassinating JFK."

No offense, but that statement is absurd on its face.

"If you continue to question my posts most falsely, you can expect similar responses. "

The only thing about your posts, is that they come with nothing but assumptive speculation, unless of course you will provide the evidence that shows they are conclusive, and that

my questioning your post is false.

Without that proof, you may indeed expect similar questions in the future if they are statements of conclusion with no basis in fact, as we see with this one.

Your experience years ago on another case is not proof of anything on this one.
15:09 March 22, 2012 by bcterry
"Certainly your dismissing my claim that only convictions constitute conclusive proof in murder cases - what is sorely lacking in this case since the suspect has now been killed, like what happened to the case against LHO after Jack Ruby killed him - as absurd on its face is why I am responding again."

What's absurd, is that you have made conclusive statements such as this is a cockup, etc. yet you you say,

"The only way to have conclusive proof is to have had a successful conviction of the suspect "

That of course works the other way as well.

Trowbridge H. Ford,

"i don't know how many Merahs were on that watch list, neither do you."

"Terrorist watch list hits 1 million"

WASHINGTON — The government's terrorist watch list has hit 1 million entries, up 32% since 2007.

Federal data show the rise comes despite the removal of 33,000 entries last year by the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center in an effort to purge the list of outdated information and remove people cleared in investigations.

It's unclear how many individuals those 33,000 records represent — the center often uses multiple entries, or "identities," for a person to reflect variances in name spellings or other identifying information. The remaining million entries represent about 400,000 individuals, according to the center.

The new figures were provided by the screening center and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence in response to requests from USA TODAY."

Are you seriously questioning my assertion that there must be at least dozens of those suspected of terrorist ties on that watch list?
17:37 March 22, 2012 by bcterry
"And citing the number of people on terrorist watch lists does not determine how many Mohammad Merahs there were - what you still do not supply."

Mohammad Merahs, in the sense of those who are on the terrorist watch list with his credentials.

Did they specifically mention that only those with that specific name were the only people of interest?, if so, then you have a point.

I may have missed that.

"The watch lists that the French were using had this suspect's name on them - apparently incorrectly in this case since the Mohammed Merah who had been convicted of offenses in Afghanistan was an Afghan national, not French - and they should have been looking carefully into whether he was a good suspect in the French shootings. They did not. "

How can you be so sure they didn't look carefully at him, did they admit that in a statement, and that his name was the only one on the watch list?

I may have missed that as well.

They may have only narrowed the list down after this recent incident because of newly acquired evidence.

Maybe they had very little to go on up until then.

Who knows?
20:20 March 22, 2012 by bcterry
"They have seen the convenient target killed, end of story."

They persisted in trying to get him to give himself up, and take him alive, he would not respond, and all he had to do was pick up the phone and surrender.

Then call the media to tell them of his intention to surrender, tell then to be on hand to witness, and then give up.

"They said he told negotiators he killed a rabbi and three young children at a Jewish school on Monday and three French paratroopers last week to avenge the deaths of Palestinian children and to protest the French army's involvement in Afghanistan, as well as a government ban last year on face-covering Islamic veils.

Christian Etelin, Merah's lawyer, said Merah had tried to join the military but was rejected. He said Merah was also disillusioned after a string of convictions for petty crimes and after efforts to reduce his sentences through work programs failed.

"He felt rejected by the periods of detention he was handed out, and for his wish to defend France in the army. Now, he is in a process of hate," Etelin said.

In a news conference Wednesday, prosecutor Francois Molins said Merah "has no regrets, except not having more time to kill more people, and he boasts that he has brought France to its knees."

He said Merah had plans to kill another soldier -- prompting the police raid at around 3 a.m. Wednesday. After it erupted into a firefight, wounding two police, a standoff ensued, with on-and-off negotiations with the suspect that lasted through the night.

The SITE Intelligence Group said a lesser-known jihadist group is claiming responsibility for the shootings in France.

SITE, which monitors jihadist messages on the Internet, said the group issued a statement in jihadist forums saying "Yusuf of France" led an attack Monday, the day of shootings that killed a rabbi and three Jewish children in Toulouse."
21:18 March 22, 2012 by bcterry
"Merah was tracked down by more than 200 special investigators after the Monday attack on a Jewish school in northern Toulouse.

The prosecutor said two major breaks in the case led them to Merah: his mother's computer, which was used by Merah to respond to an online ad by the soldier who became Merah's first victim.

Authorities also found a Yamaha motorcycle shop where Merah suspiciously sought information about how to deactivate a GPS tracker.

Merah's mother and a brother were detained a day ago by police. The brother, Abdelkader, had already been linked to Iraqi Islamist networks.

Molins also added that Merah had a lot of money and managed to buy many weapons.

Even before Merah's death, the lawyer who had defended him for years on a series of criminal charges predicted a dramatic and sombre end to the standoff.

"He wants to show he is exceptional, omnipotent, and this approach can only end up as something tragic," Christian Etelin said on news channel i-Tele on Thursday.
07:24 March 23, 2012 by bcterry
"Of course, you avoid all the most suspicious stuff I raise,"

That's just it, you have nothing but suspicions.

"And his lawyer could well have seen that his client would end up dead meat"

That's his lawyer, 200 special investigators, the prosecutor, and all the police members that were on site that you accuse of lying, without one shred of evidence to back it up.

"They say that he made a video of the shooting with a chest-held camera, gave a copy of it to an acquaintance, and it appeared on an internet site with him proclaiming that that's what French soldiers get for killing Palestinian children, shouting Ali Akbar at a later shooting, etc."

Q
21:36 March 23, 2012 by godnatt
Trowbridge H. Ford = paranoid schizophrenic.

Call your doctor. Go back on your meds.
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