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Swedish grocers revel in Ramadan profits boost

Swedish grocers revel in Ramadan profits boost

Published: 20 Jul 2012 11:46 GMT+02:00
Updated: 20 Jul 2012 11:46 GMT+02:00

“Our turnover definitely increases over Ramadan, even if I can’t give you any exact numbers. But after Christmas this is one of our main holidays,” said Henrik Grahm, of the City Gross supermarket in Rosengård, Malmö, to daily Dagens Nyheter (DN).

Nine years ago, when the chain first established itself in the area, the supermarket got it wrong and failed to foresee what products would be sought after, according to Grahm.

Related photo gallery: What do Stockholmers know about Ramadan?

“We had no sense for what people wanted. We had purchased a large number of vine leaves that no one wanted while other products sold out at once,” Grahm revealed to the paper.

However, nine years on, the supermarket has learned from previous mistakes and has taken advice from both customers and staff.

“There’s a lot of demand on things like feta cheese, preserves, alcohol-free beer and sweets. And we also try to buy in new brands,” said Grahm to DN.

According to the paper, City Gross also changes its displays ahead of Ramadan, to give the sought after products a more prominent position in the shop – just like they do at Christmas.

And according to Swedish retailing employers' organization Svensk Handel, the total consumption in Sweden over Ramadan totals some 1.3-1.6 billion kronor ($187.4 million – $230.6 million) with an increase of average food costs with 1,700 kronor per person.

The agency has actively been working with educating Swedish retailers about Muslim holidays in order to generate new customer groups and better meet consumer demand, according to DN.

“Before, retailers tended to think ‘they aren’t even eating’ but today most have realized that this is a customer group that has money to spend,” said Meta Troell of Svensk Handel to DN.

She added that despite the daylight hours are spent fasting, those who celebrate Ramadan often have feasts in the evening, with friends and family invited.

Despite Swedish food stores having caught on what an important holiday Ramadan is, Troell said that toy stores and interior decorating shops have been slower on the uptake.

“This is a holiday when you make your home look nice and buy toys for the children – something that shops don’t seem to realize,“ she told the paper.

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Your comments about this article

12:45 July 20, 2012 by occassional
You must have heard of Ramadan man: the great Norse pagan festival. It's always been big in Sweden.
13:09 July 20, 2012 by Eagle63
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
13:12 July 20, 2012 by Rishonim
I think it is noble the Swedish retailers are seeing value in stocking up on items to be consumed for those observing Ramadan. Nothing wrong with that and if it increases spending then we all benefit from it.
13:22 July 20, 2012 by Jes
So , fasting means eating more ?
13:37 July 20, 2012 by Rishonim
Jes, no, you eat after the fasting has ended. I fast twice a year. Tishah B'Av and Yom Kippur for 25 hours each not even testing a drop of water and I tell you I over stock up on food to break the fast.
13:42 July 20, 2012 by whoye
what's the point of fasting if you are going to shove everything down to you throat at night? these people actually eat more while fasting than in a non-fasting times. the whole point of fasting is to keep body healty. and especially islam's rule of fasting is terrible, since a person eats as much as he can at evening and then goes to sleep. and you call it healty? this just f@cked up.

probably buddhist has got most proper fasting ritual which is not eating after the noon meal till the next day.
14:01 July 20, 2012 by Svensksmith
Velly interesting...
14:07 July 20, 2012 by Rishonim
@whoye, because we need to nourish our bodies in order to live. Now it is up to each person to decide how much they feel like eating. Why do people strive to amass much financial wealth if they will die at the end?
14:29 July 20, 2012 by Emerentia
I don't understand why they call it fasting, when they just eat at night instead of the day. Thats no achievement or sacrifice. It's just like some people who pretend that they are on a diet, like "no lunch for me to day, i'm on a diet" so they eat nothing or a broth/pulver soup/grapefruit" whatever and then when they come home they are so hungry that they gorge on pizza, candy, pastrys etc.
14:42 July 20, 2012 by TG22
If I had Muslims as neighbours (thank God I don't) I'd celebrate the Ramadan with a big barbeque lunch - pork chops, sausages, bacon, nice cold beer - the whole shebang, so we could see who's tolerant and who's not...
14:44 July 20, 2012 by Eagle63
Great Idea, TG22 !!
15:29 July 20, 2012 by testUserName
Good to see your interest in Ramadan. Almost all religions do fasting of any type and those of you who have fantasies are most welcome to do so. And whether Muslims eat or not eat, its none of your business. Now start your lecture, ...! :)
15:39 July 20, 2012 by bcterry
Purpose of fasting in Islam

"To develop and strengthen our powers of self-control, so that we can resist wrongful desires and bad habits, and therefore "guard against evil" (extract no. 1). In fasting, by refraining from the natural human urges to satisfy one's appetite, we are exercising our ability of self-restraint, so that we can then apply it to our everyday life to bring about self-improvement."

Then totally weaken your self control and self-restraint and resisting bad habits and desires on the second half of the day, by overindulging in all of the above.

Do they give up their desire for killing apostates and other undesirables for the first half of the day only, or for the entire month?
15:41 July 20, 2012 by Eagle63
First; let's do away with all religions. They are an obsolete aspect of a primitive society. Should we ever contact advanced alien beings, they would probably agree with that assesment. What would be the chance of them having one of 'our' religions? That would say something of the validity of our religions.. Certainly the world would be a better place without all that primitive stuff.
15:43 July 20, 2012 by icedearth
Waw a lot of yankees' hatered. You yankees have not occurred to you that they are very generous when they invite people over? You cheap yankees.
15:52 July 20, 2012 by TG22
@testUserName

And who's interested in what Muslims eat? Who bloody cares?

I'm only interested to see if the group who demands so much that others have to tolerate them can also tolerate others...

As I read somewhere...

"I am appalled at all my friends who are so opposed to the mosque near ground zero. To show our tolerance, we should let them build. Then right across the street, someone should put a topless bar, called "You Mecca Me Hot". Next to that should be a gay bar, "The Turban Cowboy". And next door to the mosque should be a pork rib restaurant, maybe "Iraq o' Ribs"? Then the Muslims could be allowed to show their tolerance."
16:03 July 20, 2012 by cowboykodp
RISHONIM.. You are the man.

Thanks for helping to keep the IQ level average higher on The Local.
16:10 July 20, 2012 by testUserName
@TG22... you surely care.. otherwise why the heck you are keep posting on Friday evening... and you don't need to tolerate anything, if someone eats or doesn't, it's none of your business. you guys can't dictate on anything/everything. tell us your background and I want to influence in your likings and dislikings, ...!

Secondly talking about Ground Zero, tell me what you mean by "we". are you American? And are you "Swedish" too? Position yourself. It will make it easier to ... You will surely say you are dual national... I want to open some stores on you head too..
16:14 July 20, 2012 by suprkynu
What is a Ramadan? is the ninth month of the lunar Islamic calendar, which lasts 29 or 30 days according to the visual sightings of the crescent moon according to numerous biographical accounts compiled in Hadiths.[4][5][6] It is the Muslim month of fasting, in which Muslims refrain from dawn until sunset from eating, drinking, and sexual relations.[7] Fasting is not necessary for women going through menstrual bleeding.[8]

According to Islam, the sawab (rewards) of fasting are many, but in this month, they are believed to be multiplied.[9] [10] Muslims fast in this month to
16:27 July 20, 2012 by TG22
@testUserName

Next time you read, please try to use more than 10 neurons...

As I wrote, not I don't mind what they (or should be you?) eat, I just want to see if they (you?) are as tolerant as they (you?) demand others to be... This is not really difficult try it a bit harder and I'm sure you'll get it...

What do I mean by "we"? I don't mean anything... Again just put a bit more neurons to work and you I'll find first that I said "As I read somewhere", and that I put the text on quotes, meaning it's someone's else writing not my.

Last but not lest... 1/2 Italian, 1/2 Spanish... Proudly...
16:40 July 20, 2012 by Andersonville
Ramadan certainly does not mean eating more. It actually becomes quite hard to eat as much as you had prior to fasting for 12 + hours or more for a whole month. OR, trying to consume as much as you'd eat over 14 hours normally and squeeze that into a 3 or 4 hour period... 0_O....Let's be reasonable. Ramadan does, however, mean feeding more hungry and needy people and for more opportunities to open one's home up to feed other fasting people. Thus, Muslims are buying more food.

"O you who believe! Fasting is prescribed upon you as it was prescribed on those before you so that you may learn self-restraint [2:183]"

(those before you= ahl-i-kitab=the people of the book=Jews and Christians)

Ramadan Mubarak /Blessed Ramadan everyone!
17:06 July 20, 2012 by Acta
Biblical References

4

Biblical references to types of fasting

• Without food, but water is allowed: Matthew 4:1-2, Luke 4:2

• No food and no water for three days: Esther 4:16, Ezra 10:6, and

Acts 9:9

• Some food items are eliminated for the period of the fast:

Daniel 1:15,10:2-3

Illustrations

• Exod 24:18, 34:28; Deut 9:9 & 18; 10:10 - Moses twice spends

forty days on Mount Sinai without eating or drinking, and in

mourning over Israel's sin.

• 2 Chr 20:3 - Jehoshaphat proclaims a fast throughout Judah to

seek YHWH for fear of the armies of Ammon and Moab.

• Ezra 8:21-23 - Ezra calls a fast to seek God's protection for

those leaving Babylon for Israel.

• Joel 2:12-15 - YHWH call the people to return to Him with

fasting, rending their hearts, not garments; Joel calls for a fast.

• Matt 4:2; Luke 4:2 - Jesus fasts forty days in the wilderness,

being tempted by the devil.

• Matt 17:21; Mark 9:29 - Jesus says that this kind of demon

goes out only by means of prayer and fasting.

• Acts 14:23 - Paul and Barnabas appoint elders in the churches,

having prayed with fasting.

• 2 Cor 6:5; 2 Cor 11:27 - Paul lists "fastings" as among the

hardships he suffered as a mark of his apostleship.
17:13 July 20, 2012 by Rishonim
@cowboykodp Thanks. Some people simple just don't miss an opportunity to spill their vermin
17:38 July 20, 2012 by mkdh
@TG22 , because of people like you the world is suffering from dicrimination, if i have neighbours like you (thanks god i don,t) i would move away and let your hate burn you inside.
18:22 July 20, 2012 by batista
Smart move by the retailers/markets. You should always study your customers well and know what is needed and when exactly.

Religion should not play a role in decision making. This is pure business.

Well done!
19:37 July 20, 2012 by Acta
@batista, I think religion does maters while decision making. Because many Muslim seek Halal products (specially meat/chicken packet marked with Halal sign, foods without containing alcohol or pork fat etc.). On the other hand, there is no religious binding for Christian to buy those products. So retailers can get both the customers at the same time. You might have bought chicken (without bother to notice that, the packet has halal sign) from Willis or Hemköp.
19:59 July 20, 2012 by testUserName
@Acta good references!!!

@Thanks for your continuously wasting your neurons and weekend on never-ending discussion. And thanks for telling your background too. I just had Italian meal at lunch. It was delicious.

Now, if you say you are Italian+Spanish. Why the hell you bother if sales is increasing in Sweden? It's none of your business.

Now you post (post#16) you said.. "To show our tolerance, we should let them build". I have big objection with your "we". You are not American so you can't say "we". Lastly, you don't get the simple concept of Ramadan, @Acta give you many references of fasting and most of these references are contradicting each other. However, I don't get the trinity concept. Explain me, Einstein!! How can a son be father of a son from a spirit....? If you solve this puzzle, you definitely lack intellegence...
20:51 July 20, 2012 by TG22
"I just had Italian meal at lunch. It was delicious."

I'm glad...

"Why the hell you bother if sales is increasing in Sweden?"

Because I live in Sweden...

"I have big objection with your "we". "

Because you are still using only 10 neurons, if you start using a few more you'll get it... I didn't write that, just quote it from someone else, that's why was in quotation marks, who wrote that is American... Get it??? quote... not rocket science... even you can do it...

"Explain me"

Me? Why? I'm not using it in any of my arguments. You should ask who wrote that...
21:10 July 20, 2012 by testUserName
First of all, talking about sales increase in Sweden. You shouldn't be bothered, stupid! This is good for the economy who could help in feeding Italy and Spain through bail out. Simple common sense, dumb …

Now, to give you some basic lessons, simple one, you won't sweat. Trust me… yes.. what is the article about… work out… yes… very close… no, its not about 9-11… try again.. u can make it… oh.. yes, I give you hint… its about increase in Swedish sales… no, not alcohol, stupid… try a bit more… I give u hint, ramadan… fasting!!!… off course fasting, silly.. but link increase in sales and fasting… yes, I got it, I got it… I am very happy tonight… ah, lets put something on thelocal… search, copy, paste… 9-11 mosque, America… here we go.. tonight I m very happy… let me tell my mama… oh, she is not on skype… what should I do… my neurons are draining… please save me…

So the conclusion, the thing you are talking is ALSO not part of the original post. You tweaked in your way… so if you are fundamentally sound, tell me about your basics, stupid.
21:39 July 20, 2012 by Fernandis
@TG22------- The way you write frequently "10 neurons" lolzzzzz, something very bad must have happened in your life connected to "neurons" :p
21:44 July 20, 2012 by Dazzler
Big deal! I fast every night when I go to bed. Can I have a cookie!?
21:59 July 20, 2012 by TG22
Well, now starts the name calling, typical of someone who lacks intellectual and analytical skills, quite predicable given your difficulty to grasp the basic concept of a quote.

It was fun, and also quite funny, debate with you although I had to simplify quite drastically to give you some change to catch up, at least with some.

However I do have to apologies but unfortunately my line on the sand is when people start resorting to verbal defecation. I do hope though you start reading a bit more quality books so you can engage in a civilized conversation without embarrassing yourself too much. If I may give you some suggestions you could start with Ann Coulter and Mark Steyn, reading them would definitely do you some good, and don't give up, you may need to read the same book a few dozen times to start understanding it but at the end it'll help you a lot.

Have a great weekend, my friend, it'll be a pleasure to debate with you again, as soon as you learn how.

All the best,

Tony.

PS.: I gave you my background, it'd be nice to know yours...
22:38 July 20, 2012 by bcterry
TG22 posted,

"I'm only interested to see if the group who demands so much that others have to tolerate them can also tolerate others..."

It's a great question they will never answer.

This will answer it in spades,

"Intolerance in the Quran"

Hope you got some time, as the list of quotes in over 500 strong.

BTW, the reason for the verbal defecation is more than obvious, although i'm sure you already knew that.

Cheers.
23:23 July 20, 2012 by testUserName
@TG22, stating intellectual phrases doesn't make one intellectual. Referring few authors doesn't make that too. And if you have read these authors and more, you would definitely have an aptitude to understand that people are different, can have different believes and you would also know what tolerance means... but your initial posts doesn't depict any element of sensitivity...so now why so picky??? Secondly, even if I admit my unintelligence, how smart are you who is continuously punctuating flawless contents with me (as in your neurotic head as unintelligent). The bottom-line is, Coulter or Steyn won't tell you this. Mark it for rest of your life… You or I don't need to tell who is intelligent and who is not. It's understood.

Take out hate from you. World is beautiful. This is for me too... Don't spin around now..

Enjoy the rest of the weekend...
00:20 July 21, 2012 by ArvidFalk
Halal is a brand the states cruelty to animal so I don't buy it !

And I would not buy anything that where they advertise it

Visit my homepage

http://germany.medianewsonline.com/

to create Your qr-codes
01:22 July 21, 2012 by Spuds MacKenzie
So Swedish grocery stores are catering to muslims for their big holiday, yet finding a turkey in the stores here in November (for us expat Americans celebrating Thanksgiving) is next to impossible.

Why is Sweden so infatuated with Middle Easterners?!
03:13 July 21, 2012 by wolfbay
Why so infatuated with middle easterners? they have anti-semitism in common. Just ask the Jews who used to live in Malmo.
06:14 July 21, 2012 by icedearth
@ArvidFalk Post #35

This is what you like to eat? Youtube:

watch?v=8ydyhpoLrG8

This is what you do not like to eat because it is cruel Youtube:

watch?v=1uvZRRrwaq4

@ Spuds Mackenzie: yo yankee, Turkeys are impossible to find in USA and Canada on Thanksgiving because they are always sold out.
12:11 July 21, 2012 by tanimjubaer
I can see some mentally retarded and sick person posting in this topic
13:43 July 21, 2012 by Just_Kidding
Ramadan is also the month when the Islamic government closes down the restaurants in Islamic Iran and punishes whoever eats or drinks in public.
15:40 July 21, 2012 by Fernandis
The problem is that if someone like "TG22" read couple of novels and tell others to read them before talk ;) , come on.........you can't be considered intellectual just because of reading some famous novels and using borrowed "terminologies from authors" ......i hate such mentally retarded ppl.
16:30 July 21, 2012 by bcterry
"The problem is that if someone like "TG22" read couple of novels and tell others to read them before talk ;)"

No, the "problem", is that you're a liar, ...... nowhere did he say he wouldn't talk unless you read those books.
21:02 July 21, 2012 by Spuds MacKenzie
@icedearth Va?? I lived in America for over 40 years and NEVER was a store sold out of turkeys in November (only the day before...maybe). But here stores don't care about us Western immigrants. They only cater to those from the Middle East and North Africa.
05:15 July 22, 2012 by icedearth
Here in Canada people rush a week before thanksgiving's eve to get a decent turkey. Plus, this is not about religion or tolerance. This is business. They want to make money from a certain event, likewise Christmas. It is money and money talks. Also, if you go and ask the store about the turkey, they will put it in store. It is easy as that. Because they want to make money.
08:19 July 22, 2012 by basenbeats
The ignorance of the comments in this page is disgusting and a sign of un-civilized vikings LOL in america we would have you brought before court for defamation of character. i'm disgusted at low life swedes and their attitude behind a computer. Grow a pair!
13:26 July 22, 2012 by bcterry
12:11 July 21, 2012 by tanimjubaer

"I can see some mentally retarded and sick person posting in this topic "

Self flagellation?
22:18 July 22, 2012 by MaxTron
Funny.

Simple money issue turned to religious holywar.

No, I don't like multiculturalism at all, but here the question about money only.

Nothing else.
08:27 July 23, 2012 by bcterry
@ MaxTron,

What is ramadan?
14:39 July 23, 2012 by philster61
yet another example of religion trying to exercise control . Religion poisons everything
15:09 July 23, 2012 by asifbit
This is for all the haters of Islam.

According to my mind following are the reasons of spending more money on food during Ramadan:

If you guys ever eat healthy food then you know healthy food is always much more expensive then un healthy food and that what Muslims trying to do when they choose food during Ramadan because at the end of the day they need more vitamins etc... That is 1 reason of spending more money during Ramadan.

And when we inviting family or friends on Iftar (dinner) during Ramadan off course we need to make more food and dishes then normal and that is another reason of increasing expenditure on food during Ramadan.

Another factor is to buy gifts for family and children.

Why the hell you always pointing out things that relates to Muslims? You always have problem with Muslims. You have problem if a Muslim buy more you also have problem if Muslim buy less. I can't say more now you better understand yourself and your thinking. When you doing these things on your Charismas nobody told you nothing even we tried to participate in that. But you always clamming that Muslims are not integrated have any of the non Muslim tried to participate in these religious Islamic events? During Charismas our children are also participating in your religious events in the schools but you always blaming Muslims for everything in the world without looking at yourself what you are contributing.
19:37 July 23, 2012 by bcterry
@ asifbit,

Islam is a violent, hate filled, racist, bigoted, intolerant, subjugating, totalitarian, fascist ideology, that think that all non-muslims are "vilest of all creatures", and calls for the death of all those "creatures".

"The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51"

"Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25"

That's only the tip of the iceberg of offensive,violent hate filled quotes that fill your books.

And you wonder why we take offense with that crap, and speak out against it?

So save your rhetoric for the ignorant, who know nothing about your ideological sickness.
22:55 July 23, 2012 by icedearth
BCTERRY is a violent, hate filled, racist, bigoted, intolerant, subjugating, totalitarian, fascist individual, that think that all humans are "vilest of all creatures", and calls for the death of all those "creatures".

Nice try quoting part of the verse. Why do not you quote the whole verse, and the whole chapter? After that, dare us if your claims are true or not.
03:08 July 24, 2012 by bcterry
"Why do not you quote the whole verse, and the whole chapter? After that, dare us if your claims are true or not."

YOU'RE the one who believes that all non muslims are "the vilest of of all creatures", and that "muslims should be harsh against us unbelievers and merciful only towards each other", so YOU justify your reasons for believing that about every non-muslim.
07:06 July 24, 2012 by icedearth
Yes it is true . Muslims should be harsh against unbelievers. But do you know whom is it addressed to? Do you know why is it addressed to them ? It is addressed to the ones who were harsh against Muslims back in Mecca. And everyone who is harsh against muslims, muslims will be harsh against them. If you are harsh against me, I will not turn my other cheek, I will be harsh to you. If you are not , no matter what your beliefs are, I will not be harsh. Got it now ?
08:05 July 24, 2012 by bcterry
Give me the part of the quote from the where it says muslims should be harsh against ONLY those unbelievers who are harsh against muslims.

And why the use the term "unbelievers", instead of just anyone who is harsh against muslims irregardless of their spiritual beliefs?
09:16 July 24, 2012 by testUserName
@bcterry.. u seem to be a retired guy.. harsh or not harsh is not the topic. so wait for right topic to show ur frustration... take anxiety tablets and try to cool down
13:13 July 24, 2012 by bcterry
@bcterry.. u seem to be a retired guy.. harsh or not harsh is not the topic."

So why did you bother to respond in the first place?

You jumped on it, gave a vague explanation, i press you for details, now all of a sudden it's not the right time to discuss it as you head for the nearest exit.

Textbook.
13:30 July 24, 2012 by icedearth
You should read the explanation and the history behind this verse. The verse addresses the disbelievers of Mecca because they were disbeleiver (as simple as that). Reading the Quran bluntly is not enough, but anyone should read the history and meaning behind the verse that is not in book itself. This verse applies today, but it does not mean every muslim should be harsh against anyone who is not muslim. But they should be harsh against anyone who is harsh against them. I will give you an example: should the muslims have killed the Qadafi when he got caught? YES because he done so much suffering against them. Another case, should muslims be harsh against the King of Sweden and people of Sweden ? NO because they are not harsh. Capish?
14:14 July 24, 2012 by bcterry
The disbelievers of mecca, would be everyone other than muslims, therefore, "Muslims are harsh against unbelievers, merciful towards one another", means that when i posted that you are the one that believes muslims are harsh against ALL unbelievers was right.

Now either it is, because you just said it is, "The verse addresses the disbelievers of Mecca they were disbeliever (as simple as that)", or is it that you personally do not believe in that part of your book?

Is that's not right, than what is it?
18:53 July 24, 2012 by testUserName
@bcterry explanation to you?? U must be dreaming. Trust me, harsh/not harsh is not the topic, textbook buddy. So far you are acting more harsh than others. Now use all you copy paste skills and divert the discussion further. I am writing just so that you don't presume silence to your useless arguments as something else. I have bigger questions on ur belief but don't feel u competent to discuss. Over to your useless response..
19:15 July 24, 2012 by icedearth
Quraish were disbelievers (if you do not believe in something you are a disbeliever, why you want to take it as a negative word?) . The people of Mecca , among them tribe of Quraish, treated the Muslims badly. They tortured , boy-cutt, killed them. They were harsh in treating the muslims. This verse, you mentioned, addresses this period of time when muslims were prosecuted by Quraish. It does not dictate muslims to kill disbelievers, Christians, or Jews.

The proof of evidence to support my point of view and refute yours, that the first 4 Chaliphas: Abubaker, Omar, Othman, and Ali were murdered by disbelievers (pagans). Also, when Mohammad took over Mecca peacefully the pagans were afraid of what will become of them. But he told me you are free to continue your life ( read the biography).

The point here is that if someone was aggressive towards a muslim, the muslim shall retaliate. Therefore, he should not be the aggressor or the starter.

And to refute your claims, why Mohammad permitted his companions to leave to Ethiopia , who has a Christian king (Najashi)? He spoke highly of him, and he described him as a king of just. Even after Mohammad tookover Mecca, these companions stayed in Ethiopia. Moreover, when Mohammad knew about the death of the Najashi , he said to his followers : Today, a just and kind king died. Let us perform the Prayer for him and supplicate to God to be merciful on his soul.''

Also, the prophet had a kind Jewish neighbor. When the prophet used to pray , Quraish people used to throw garbage on him. The prophet continued and did not stop, but the Jewish neighbor used to pick it up from the prophet.

I can go on about this, but before you use any verse or mention an event of history, go read and know what behind it. Even muslims , if they do not read the explanations , they would not know.
19:59 July 24, 2012 by bcterry
You said it was all those who did not believe in mecca, am i right?

Just because others don't believe in mecca, does not mean they do not believe in other forms of spirituality, or none at all for that matter, what business is that of muslims?

So where do you muslims get off in thinking that YOUR form of spirituality is superior to all others, to the point that you will treat all those others harshly until they except yours?

"The point here is that if someone was aggressive towards a muslim, the muslim shall retaliate."

Where does it mention of only those who are aggressive towards muslim?, put it up if it's there, it is open ended towards disbelievers in general.

Once again i will ask you this specific, direct, simple question, why is it directed at unbelievers of your mecca, (your religion only), instead of only those people who were aggressive towards muslims irregardless of what they believe?

Stay on point, and answer directly and specifically.
02:57 July 25, 2012 by icedearth
Sure. But can you get me the right number of the verse, and the soura numbers. The one you mentioned do not say do not match. I will give you the explanation and a reference. your mistakes are when you trying to quote are :

1- You only use one verse and put it by itself. You can easily manipulated. You can do this method to any book like the bible, or even a political speech. You should display the verses that is related to the matter. In your case , you should have included three or more (i do not know) verses previous and after this.

2- You have to read the history along with the reason of this revelation. No one can claim an evidence unless he/she know the historical event behind a verse. I

So please send me the right verse numbers and I will surely give you answers. I will try it again anyway until i find your right verse numbers.
13:18 July 25, 2012 by bcterry
@, icedearth,

I
14:36 July 25, 2012 by asifbit
The latest issue right now on google just search for 'burma muslim killings 2012' you all will have answer of what a Muslim doing and what a non Muslim doing. There are many examples like this. Every body knows what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Islam is supermecy because Quran was the last and final version of all the previous books send by Allah so there by cancelled all the previous books. But this supermecy does not mean that a Muslim have supermecy over non muslims. It only means that the religion Islam is the final and last verson.

Even if Muslim doing some thing wrong does not mean it is part of the Islam. Islam is one thing and people who practcing Islam is another thing.
18:40 July 25, 2012 by bcterry
@, icedearth,

Looked for a site that would give me verses before and after, and found nothing.

I found many references to the verse and number i gave you, but nothing on before and after.

The same thing with the "unbelievers are the vilest of creatures" quote.

"Islam is supermecy because Quran was the last and final version of all the previous books send by Allah so there by cancelled all the previous books."

A

But this supermecy does not mean that a Muslim have supermecy over non muslims. It only means that the religion Islam is the final and last verson."
15:48 July 26, 2012 by abidhasnain
@ bcterry: the reference you quoted:

"The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51"

"Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25"

I can only find these references in sites that are only focused on propagating false about Islam and Quran. I cannot find any of the above reference in our book "Quran". For example 98:51 means Surah 98 Ayat 51. But in Quran Surah 98 is Al-Baiyinah and has only 8 Ayats.

The other reference you provided 48:25 i.e. Surah Al-Fath. Thankfully it has an Ayat 25 but the translation differs from that you have provided. I am quoting its translation. May Allah forgive me for any mistake:

"These it was who disbelieved and debarred you from the Inviolable Place of Worship, and debarred the offering from reaching its goal. And if it had not been for believing men and believing women, whom ye know not lest ye should tread them under foot and thus incur guilt for them unknowingly; that Allah might bring into His mercy whom He will. If the believers and the disbelievers had been clearly separated We verily had punished those of them who disbelieved with painful punishment. 48:25 "

And even if you have had quoted them correctly, as "icedearth" says you have to Quote it with leading Ayats and the Ayat that follows, that are connect to it and makes the whole story and the context. Also where these Ayats were revealed and to whom they were revealed, what was the condition at that time and finally what should we infer from it for ourselves within our time and our era and where we are located right now.

I am not a scholar to give you explanation on any of the part of Quran so I suggest you to contact any known scholar instead of posting such questions here as I don't think any literate Islamist usually stroll here at thelocal . Let me give you a video link on youtube of a great scholar.

youtube[.]com/playlist?list=PL30DF9937C9771127&feature=plcp

It can be very tiresome because of its length but if you listen to this whole series I think most of your doubts will be cleared. I look forward for you to listen and quote from here instead of a site which portrays a false picture which in reality is totally different. Then we may be on the same track and our argument can make more sense.
18:02 July 26, 2012 by bcterry
The Noble Quran

Published by Dar-us-Salam Publications

Excerpt,

"98. Surah Al-Baiyyinah (The Clear Evidence)

1. Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and among Al-Mushrikun,were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence.

2. A Messenger (Muhammad ()) from Allah, reciting (the Qur'an) purified pages [purified from Al-Batil (falsehood, etc.)].

3. Containing correct and straight laws from Allah.

4. And the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) differed not until after there came to them clear evidence. (i.e. Prophet Muhammad () and whatever was revealed to him).

5. And they were commanded not, but that they should worship Allah, and worship none but Him Alone (abstaining from ascribing partners to Him), and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat) and give Zakat: and that is the right religion.

6. Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad ()) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

7. Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allah, and in His Messenger Muhammad ()) including all obligations ordered by Islam] and do righteous good deeds, they are the best of creatures.

8. Their reward with their Lord is 'Adn (Eden) Paradise (Gardens of Eternity), underneath which rivers flow, they will abide therein forever, Allah Well-Pleased with them, and they with Him. That is for him who fears his Lord.
19:43 July 26, 2012 by icedearth
@ bcterry: there is nothing mentioned about killing the poeple of the book, and disbelievers. I wish I could help but I need to know which verses are you talking about exactly.

I can only tell you that the Quran is made of two kind of chapters. One chapter called Meccan ( revealed when muslims were in Mecca) and it deals with jihad, heaven, hell, so so. The other chapter is called Madaniya (revealed when muslims immigrate to Madina) and it deals about rules and bases of a nation following the Quran and sunna.

Therefore, the verse you are talking about is mentioned under the Meccan because it deals with jihad and so. I wish I could help more.

Anyway, link this youtube below of a jewish agonist talking about this verse at 6:00

/watch?v=VLsNV01vajY&feature=related
20:00 July 26, 2012 by bcterry
@ bcterry: there is nothing mentioned about killing the poeple of the book, and disbelievers. I wish I could help but I need to know which verses are you talking about exactly. "

The quotes i gave you did not touch on killing of disbelievers, but there are plenty.

T
16:07 July 27, 2012 by Onivan
Live and let live. There's a lot to learn from one another.
17:47 July 27, 2012 by bcterry
@ icedearth,

The last reference i gave you, with the before and after of the quote, which you asked for was an english translation from,

'www.dar-us-salam.com/', an islamic"

This can be found at the top of their homepage.

"This website originally began in 1995 after opening of our Houston branch. Since then it has gone through many design changes and overhauls. Through customer experience and input we have been constantly improving features and services. We continually add products and send out periodic emails to customers on our mailing list.

Our main goal is to meet the needs of the global Muslim community by providing authentic Islamic material of high standards and great service. We pray to Allah to help us in this objective and accept our work."

The last paragraph more than confirms the validity of the translation, note "AUTHENTIC".

Also note, they are your islamic brothers!

If you have any problems with what YOUR "brothers" confirm, you should take it up with them, ..... not me.

BTW, WHAT they confirm, is EXACTLY what i posted in my original content in #51, that both you, and TestUserName jumped all over me for being a false translation.
21:36 July 27, 2012 by abidhasnain
@bcterry, "BTW, WHAT they confirm, is EXACTLY what i posted in my original content in #51, that both you, and TestUserName jumped all over me for being a false translation."

Again, where do the confirm EXACTLY what you mentioned in #51.

Please refer back to #67 where I pointed the mistakes in #51.

Its very good and I am very greatful to see atleast you have tried and listed a correct translation of "98. Surah Al-Baiyyinah" in post #68. If you think there is any confusion in the translation that you provided I can try my best to help you. :).

I am still wondering (greatly hoping!!) that if you tried to listen to the playlist at youtube that i provided in #67. It explain each and every Ayat in great detail.
22:46 July 27, 2012 by bcterry
"Again, where do the confirm EXACTLY what you mentioned in #51. "

Again, do i have to draw you a map?

You know damn well what i'm talking about. :)

"Its very good and I am very greatful to see atleast you have tried and listed a correct translation of "98. Surah Al-Baiyyinah" in post #68. "

Thanks for the confirmation of the validity of the quotes in my original post.

Here's an old article i discovered years ago in my studies of your "religion" and it's history.

Very enlightening, you're not too bad at it. :)

Enjoy,

"Games Muslims Play'
23:59 July 27, 2012 by abidhasnain
No I do not know what you are talking about and I would be pleased to see the map you draw. But please your own research and reference from pure Muslims' sources.

"Games Muslims Play"

Again a propaganda article. Why don't you do your own research.

There are lots of live events through out the world arranged by renowned Islamic scholars to answer such question posted by you. Why do not people go there and challenge the scholars who arrange these events.

Why is it that I can't I find any reference of videos where they are challenged and they are not able to answer?
07:35 July 28, 2012 by bcterry
Is the quote accurate?

Does it not say that those who do not believe in your religion or self proclaimed prophet are the worst of creatures?
19:54 July 28, 2012 by abidhasnain
I do not really know if that quote is accurate but I think I understand what context you might be thinking.

Look human is the best of all the creation whether a non-believer or a believer. All the Muslims should be most gentle, humble and caring towards the non-believer, because we have to convey our message towards the non-believer. How will it be possible if we think that non-believer are the worst of the creation and still try to convince them otherwise? If that would have been the case no Muslim would like to go and work side by side with the non-believer, laugh with them, eat together etc.

Even a Muslim who does not follow Islam properly can be seen as the worst of the creation. Worst of the creation is said in a way that on the Day of Judgment they would be among the people who will be going to the Hell fire. Those are the people who our pointed out when saying the "worst of creatures" because they are rejecting what is coming ahead of them.

We Muslim cannot say anything about anyone that which of the people who will be going to Heaven or Hell. It is the thing that Allah will Judge and decide. Even I am not sure about myself.

There is a YouTube video link where a person who ask whether mother Teresa would go to heaven or hell. It may be helpful to clear your ideas.

youtube[.]com/watch?v=7fXySX_gjvc
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