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ASSANGE EXTRADITION FIGHT
Assange: Sweden likely to 'drop case' against me

Assange: Sweden likely to 'drop case' against me

Published: 31 Aug 2012 10:41 GMT+02:00
Updated: 31 Aug 2012 10:41 GMT+02:00

Assange took shelter in the embassy in June after exhausting all appeals against extradition to Sweden, where he is wanted for questioning over sexual assault allegations. Earlier this month Ecuador granted him asylum.

Assange has denied any wrongdoing and said he fears Sweden will hand him over to the United States, where he could face prosecution over the release of a trove of leaked Iraq and Afghanistan war reports and diplomatic cables.

"I believe this will be resolved in six to 12 months," the 41-year-old Australian said in an interview with Ecuadoran television held inside the embassy and broadcast in dubbed-over Spanish.

"The situation will be resolved either through diplomacy or an unusual event in the world that no one can predict, like a war against Iran, the election in the United States, or the Swedish government dropping the case," he said.

"I expect the last scenario is the most likely one," he added, according to the Spanish translation.

Earlier this week, Ecuador's leftist President Rafael Correa said the case could take years to resolve and depended on London and Stockholm.

He said there were three ways to resolve the diplomatic impasse: either Britain and Sweden could guarantee that Assange won't be sent to a third country, Swedish prosecutors could question him in the Ecuadoran embassy, or British authorities could allow him to leave without arresting him.

AFP/The Local

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Your comments about this article

11:21 August 31, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Assange is beyond disillusioned. Swedish prosecutors have gone through 1 case in Sweden, and 3 in UK just to drop the case against him. His conceit know no bounds.
12:13 August 31, 2012 by axiom
He didn't say they will, he simply put forward three scenarios and said which is more likely.

From that list I'd also go for his choice, the other two are far less likely to affect his current situation.
12:36 August 31, 2012 by lilsocks
As guilty as OJ!
12:43 August 31, 2012 by themoron
the moron says:

I think Assange is wrong. It is not likely that Sweden drops the case, simply because Sweden's prestige is highly involved. It is at stake. If they ever drop the case, it means that it was not as strong as they claimed it to be. Swedish government would face more laughs around the world and that, it should never happen to the typical Swedish arrogance.
15:10 August 31, 2012 by cogito
J.Ass. "fears Sweden will hand him over to the United States..."

No danger of that. There is not enough room in the U.S. for two Messiahs.
16:01 August 31, 2012 by tetrahedron
If Sweden prosecutes Assange on flimsy evidence, that will make Sweden look like a laughing stock in the world.
17:59 August 31, 2012 by Rockflower
No one ever mentions justice for the women involved, which ever way a judgement would go. It is all about this Assange. I should also like to know, where is Australia in this case? Could be of cause that Australia knows him far too well, that they will not take part inany of this. I do not hear much from Wilkileaks regards the unfortunate very young marine that Assange used. Then he does seem to have a pattern of using people and dropping them.
18:33 August 31, 2012 by bcterry
" No one ever mentions justice for the women involved, which ever way a judgement would go. It is all about this Assange. "

A voice of reason.

Well said.

The women have already been tried, convicted and found guilty by his adoring fans.
19:52 August 31, 2012 by Ranger
The entire world is learning that the swedish kangaroo courts are incompetent and corrupt.
20:12 August 31, 2012 by SheReallyCan'tHelpIt
Where there's a WILL there's a WAY. This little pimple on the ass of society will oneday be "popped"!

XX
20:21 August 31, 2012 by Nomark
Rockflower

What happened to the women is nothing short of disgraceful. Against common media standards they have been publicly identified and have received stacks of hate mail. One of them is now known as "the most hated woman on the internet". Nice..

There are several schools of thought among JA-supporters regarding the women. One theory alleges they are simply liars and scorned women. The other that they are rampant feminists. Another that they are CIA agents and this is all a plot. The evidence for a given theory usually comes from someone using google.

I have no idea if these women are sincere in their belief that JA committed a crime. I am, however, sure that the guttersnipes who have never met them and who know little about them but have collectively made their lives a misery ought to hang their heads in shame. If they really think JA is innocent and that there is lots of evidence that the women made malicious allegations then they should encourage JA to return to face those allegations. If the women's stories are as pitifully wafer-thin as JA-fans believe then a good defence lawyer will make this clear should this come to trial.

However, JA-supporters have chosen the easy (and dirty) option of deciding in advance of any trial that JA is innocent and the women are liars/CIA agents/Martians etc. After all, who needs the Swedish justice system (imperfect like all justice systems but better than 99% of the justice systems in the world) when one has google ?
21:00 August 31, 2012 by expatjourno
Nomark, what has happened to Assange is disgraceful. Those women (or the police) leaked his name to Expressen. As you are obviously unaware, the names of the accused are not supposed to be made public.

As for whether Assange should "return to face those allegations," you are obviously unaware that Assange is willing to do just that, provided that Sweden agrees not to extradite him to the U.S., where prosecutors will seek a life sentence for Wikileaks' revelations of U.S. war crimes.

Since you are unaware of all of the most important aspects of the case, why do you choose to reveal your ignorance by commenting publicly?
21:19 August 31, 2012 by skogsbo
why should Sweden agree to anything in relation to the USA, it is irrelevent to this case? He was wanted as a suspect of Rape in Sweden, that is the ONLY reason he is to be extradited. If only there was a way to lock up all the Assange lovers in the Embassy with him, they could have a love in together. Consenting of course, with or without condoms. :)
21:23 August 31, 2012 by Nomark
expatjourno

Many thanks for your kind comments. Funnily enough I was aware of everything you mentioned.

You do not know who leaked his name to the press though I note you link the women to this. Any *evidence* ???? Nope, I didn't think so. Please stop this - they've been through enough.

As for JA's anonymity I agree his name should have been kept anonymous (and have indeed argued this here - have you argued for the women's anonymity ? ). However, given that he anyway wasn't especially willing to be questioned (source: report the UK judge who reviewed the evidence) there was little chance of this anonymity anyway being protected given the extradition request.

Be careful about repeating that old canard about Sweden having to guarantee no extradition - unaware of it I wasn't, unconvinced I am. Sweden's responsibility is to guarantee that, should an extradition request be made (and this extradition request is hypothetical - if you disagree, *evidence* please), he receive a fair hearing and be able to put forward arguments as to why he shouldn't be extradited. There is no reason to treat him differently than any other citizen.

You're supposedly a journalist. For heaven's sake start quoting *evidence* and not repeating tired speculation.
22:08 August 31, 2012 by Carbarrister
He said there were three ways to resolve the diplomatic impasse: either Britain and Sweden could guarantee that Assange won't be sent to a third country, Swedish prosecutors could question him in the Ecuadoran embassy, or British authorities could allow him to leave without arresting him

There are a 4th and 5th way. In a year or two there is an election in Equador and the new president has no intrest in continuing to feed and house Julian and has him thrown out of the embassy or 5 Julian tires of eating red beans and rice and decides that prison food would be better and leaves the embassy on his own.
22:26 August 31, 2012 by RobinHood
The prosecutor is in a bit of a fix. At the moment, she doesn't even have enough evidence to bring a charge against Assange, let alone convict him. An interview with Assange is unlikely to improve her position - unless he confesses.

The current impasse suits her well. If she gets her interview, but can't bring charges, she is out of a job for life. If she brings charges anyway, but fails to convict, she is out of a job for life. If Assange stays where he is, and ultimately avoids trial, she stays in employment.

Don't expect her to be popping over to England anytime soon. Her nightmare begins when the circus is over, and its time for her to present the hard evidence. As things stand right now, there isn't any. Her witnesses are tainted by their own eccentric behavior, before and after the alleged sexual assaults, and numerous Swedish legal experts say the case is unwinnable. If they are right, the prosecutor, and the Swedish justice system are in for a very unpleasant time.
22:37 August 31, 2012 by Nomark
A 7th way could occur if Ecuador continues to abuse the diplomatic privileges given to it by the host country. Its one thing hosting a fugitive, its quite another to allow him to give public balcony speeches attacking the US, interviews etc. What next, a Hello magazine spread: "at home with Assange in the embassy".

If this continues (or escalates) it will look like Ecuador has no interest in finding a solution and prefers simply to embarrass the host country + US . Its not inconceivable that the UK would grow tired of this and, since it would then no longer be necessarily seen by many as the bad guy, sever diplomatic relations. This is all unlikely for various reasons but no more so than the various JA conspiracy theories popping up here.

Regarding the Brits treatment of him when he emerges, this is an interesting area. He has broken bail law and the penalty for this can be a custodial sentence (especially if bail skipping meant a large waste of th resources of the justice system, as in this case) . Even if he wouldn't be charged by Swedes (or would be acquitted in any trial) he may face trouble from the Brits (assuming they don't decide just to drop the charges to get rid of him).
23:36 August 31, 2012 by Rockflower
As I read it Assange has gone through all levels of British courts, his legal team had every opportunity to convince different courts and judges of the rights of his case. What he is alleged to have done,would also constitute rape in England. I also understand that extradition from Sweden would be more difficult as consent from both the UK and Sweden would be necessary. I believe it would be a legal impossibility for Sweden to give any guarantee about a future extradition request. Extradition requests are judged on their merits, any final decision would be made by an independent Swedish court not government. Any guarantee given by the Swedish government at this stage would not be legally binding on the Swedish legal system.

Am I right in thinking that JA is wanted for arrest not just questioning? The complaint that he has not been charged shows lack of understanding because he cannot be charged until he is arrested. JA is avoiding a charge by avoiding being arrested.

There is a valid European Arrest Warrant for JA and Britain has an obligation to hand JA back to Sweden as a matter of international law.

I believe Sweden to be a highly civilized country with an independent justice system, quite capable of dealing with this case. If JA is totally innocent one would think that he should like to clear his name and get on with all the matters that he tells us, await him.
02:01 September 1, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
These apologist of Assange are becoming really boring. They can't even produce one ounce of proof to support there position that Assange is be persecuted.

There are those who believe that even if the accusations against Assange are true, that he has not committed a crime. That is if Assange has pinned down a woman, or instigated intercourse of a sleeping woman. They seem to argue this "implied" consent, which wouldn't hold up in court.

Instead of understand the legal procedures some want to suggest the system is stacked against Assange. A legal procedure that has been the same against any other person in Sweden, and similar in all other model democracies.

Assange has lost every challenge to the validity of the Swedish prosecutors request to present himself in Sweden. However, some still question why the prosecutors won't "interview" Assange at his place of choosing.

Assange can do what ever pleases him. It doesn't change the fact that he is a fugitive. Nor, does it change the fact that the only way to resolve this is for him to surrender to UK authorities. Assange needs to go to Sweden to clear his name.

One man has demonstrated that the system for treating sexual assault crime is valid. Than one man is Julian Assange.
08:22 September 1, 2012 by Dazzler
I hope they do drop the cases. Let him walk around free with a nice big target on his forehead. Would LOVE to run into him someday on the street.
08:43 September 1, 2012 by timbenton51
Did somebody actually ask for justice for the women?

They should be prosecuted for false accusations.

Why don't these women go to the media and just make public statements admitting the truth; they voluntarily had sex with the guy and then got jealous when they learned about the other. So they sought revenge by going to the police. That is what the facts of the police report indicate.

If there is a reasonable person who can arrive at another conclusion after reading the facts of the case, I would like to meet that person. (Those with a political agenda are not included here).
08:51 September 1, 2012 by dukesy
Whether Assange is guilty or not,the trouble is he is one of those people who thinks because he has the money,he can do what ever he likes,be it in USA,Uk or Sweden.

Why the hell should the Swedish authorities back down and let this millionare joker off,just so he can gloat about how he beat the law in a book sometime in the future.

As far as we heard in Uk,he assaulted a woman in Stockholm and another in Gotenburg,he should be deported from Uk to stand trial for those offenses,and the last thig the Swedes should do is even thinkl about dropping the case.

Why should Sweden and indirectly the UK be made to look a laughing stock in Europe,just so this filthy rich clown can crow to the media as to how he beat the Law.
10:28 September 1, 2012 by Nomark
timbenton

Such arrogance. You know little of these women, there has been no police inquiry into them, and yet you want them on trial.

Tell us - when you did pick up this ability to spot false accusations ? Was it through google ?

The smartest people are those who refuse to draw firm conclusions in the absence of reliable evidence. The idiots do the exact opposite.
11:14 September 1, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

Thanks # 13 for your "Since you are unaware of all of the most important aspects of the case, why do you choose to reveal your ignorance by commenting publicly?" comment. For your knowledge, Nomark is fully aware of everything he wants to invent. What a waste of space.

From Nomark to Nomark: "The smartest people are those who refuse to draw firm conclusions in the absence of reliable evidence. The idiots do the exact opposite."

From the moron to those who write without having the facts of life on hand: Please, do a proper homework.

1.- Tne names of Anna Ardin and Sovia Wilen are all over the world. Their identity was never protected by anybody.

2.- The police changed their declarations. That was one of the reasons Sofia Willen did not signed hers and left the police station furiously.

3.- Anna Ardin appears in a photo with Assange and the founder of the Pirate Party in a reunion. Photo taken two days after she filed her complain about "RAPE ???).

5.- Anna Ardin did not know that she had been raped. Her lawyer, Claes Borgström, said that she did not know this, because she was not a lawyer. SIC.

There are copies everywhere of the police protocols, the "raped" women declarations, their

sms chats, etc. etc. Don't be blind. Search.

6.- Assange did not run from Sweden. Since he was not charged of anything, Sweden (Marianne Ny) said he could go to London. Two days later, SHE

issues an arrest warrant against Assange.

7.- Sweden can interrogate anybody in another country. Assange has requested this. Marianne Ny has refused, in spite of the fact that she can do it by law.

8.- Assange has requested to be interviewed by phone or video chat. NO, NO, NO. has said NY. Sweden can do it.

So, once more, like in many other Assange threads, there are posters trying to cover the Sun with their little tiny fingers.

GROW UP KIDS and go back to school
14:07 September 1, 2012 by Prestonrobsun
Assange is returned to Sweden. He does not pass 'go' (i.e. Swedish Immigration) or collect £200. He is sent directly to jail in the US. Via a CIA plane waiting beside T5 @ Arlanda.

THAT is why he is sitting in what is virtually house-arrest in London. He knows if he goes back to Sweden to face trumped-up 'rape' charges he is a dead man walking.
14:25 September 1, 2012 by Nomark
Themoron

You have never met these women, know little of them, yet still you smear and rubbish them on the basis of biased and incomplete information. Shame on you (though I suspect you fancy yourself to be occupying the moral high ground).

Prestonrobsun

Try not to confuse your fevered speculation for fact.
14:34 September 1, 2012 by cogito
#28. No. Obama will not want J.Ass on U.S. soil. There can be only one messiah.
15:20 September 1, 2012 by bcterry
"Extradition requests are normally made after charges have been brought against the suspect in the country making the request, leading some to infer that Mr Assange is "facing charges" in Sweden.

This is not the case. Sweden has requested his extradition so he may be questioned.

One of the criticisms directed at Sweden by Mr Assange's supporters is that he has not been formally charged with any offence.

However, in Sweden, charging comes much later in the process of a criminal investigation than it does in many other countries.

In a letter given to Mr Assange's extradition hearing in the UK and quoted in the High Court's subsequent judgement, Swedish Director of Prosecutions Marianne Ny stated: "A formal decision to indict may not be taken at the stage that the criminal process is currently at.

"Julian Assange's case is currently at the stage of 'preliminary investigation'.

"It will only be concluded when Julian Assange is surrendered to Sweden and has been interrogated."

Sweden does not have the authority to question assange in the U.K. , and then arrest him if they feel the questioning warrants it.

It's not surprising that his supporters continually harp on the issue of "why not just go to the U.K. to question him".

It's ludicrous to even suggest that it's an option.
15:41 September 1, 2012 by themoron
themoron says: Nomark: How do you know I don't know them? Do you know me? Do you know them?

Sweden's 'reinterpretation' of the Mutual Legal Assistance, the agreement between two countries to help cooperation during investigation of alleged crimes. The EU's website states "mutual legal assistance and agreements on extradition are essential for the EU in order to achieve a European area of justice".

The Swedish prosecution has requested Julian Assange's extradition for the purpose of questioning on allegations of sexual misconduct. He is yet to be formally charged with an offense.

Mr Assange has offered himself to be questioned under the MLA practices, by telephone, video conference, or in person. He continues to retain this offer, even during his current stay at the Ecuadorian Embassy as he awaits a decision on his application for asylum. The Ecuadorians have agreed to letting the Swedish prosecution come to the Embassy to question him.

WikiLeaks' legal adviser Jennifer Robinson met with Sweden's Minister for Foreign Affairs Carl Bildt on July 5 during Almedalen Week, a political conference in Gotland. She discussed with him the allegations against Julian Assange and why Sweden has refused to question him over the past 18 months.

Bildt said "it's not allowed". And when I pointed out that Sweden had only recently done just that in a murder investigation in Serbia, he had no reply.

Swedish prosecutor Marianne Ny made similar statements in 2010, saying that Swedish Law prevents Mr Assange being interviewed by telephone or video link, and that both Swedish and British law prevent her from traveling to London to question Mr Assange. Many of the articles containing the latter statement were later removed.

Since Julian Assange has not been formally charged, he does not have the rights of a defendant, i.e. access to the full accusations against him or any of the evidence. Could the fact that he only faces allegations affect the use of MLA law?

The guidelines for getting Mutual Legal Assistance from the UK state the contrary.

In the section entitled "What must be included in a Letter of Request" it states:

A description of the offences charged or under investigation and sentence or penalty

Furthermore, in an "Example Letter of Request" it states:

Supply information on the charge or proposed charge.

A full page of the document is also dedicated to the information needed to request a telephone or video conference call, which includes an address, a possible list of questions, and any formal notification of rights.

Neither Carl Bildt nor Marianne Ny would explain how or why it is illegal under Swedish law to question Mr Assange via telephone, video conference, or in person. With no explanation on their behalf, the EU promoting the use of Mutual Legal Assistance, and a document explaining how to achieve information this way, it opens the door for speculation as to why Sweden refuses to question Assange.
15:59 September 1, 2012 by bcterry
Once again, Sweden does not have the authority to arrest assange in the U.K. or the Ecuador embassy.

It's more than obvious as to why they they refuse to question him there.

It would simply be pointless to do so because that fact.

Is it really any wonder why assange has offered that option?

It's ludicrous on his part as well to even suggest it.
16:05 September 1, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Assange knows he is a "dead man walking" from his spy detector ring he keeps hidden in his right pocket. Don't ask him about it or he will kill you his death look.

Seriously, for once it would be great for someone to provide proof for this conspiracy against Assange.

This smear campaign against the two women is of no help to Assange.
16:19 September 1, 2012 by themoron
themoron says: There is no smear campaign whatsovever against these liers. It was the police that twisted everything. Do a proper research on this before you post what you are known to post every time you use your posting privileges.

You want proofs about the conspiracy against Assange? Call Hillary and let us see if she opens her mouth. Perhaps the minister Carl Bildt. If you think that Sweden will not send people via CIA to a cuntry where torture exists, ask the Egyptians who were extradited in 2001 from Sweden with the blessings of Anna Lindh in a plane

chartered by the CIA.

Please Tiny Red Ant. It is enough with the size you have now. Don't go smaller. You might disappear and then we ill need to look for you with a microscope.
16:27 September 1, 2012 by viennacalling
From a Poor Taxpayer

I can predict that Israel is going to bomb Iran , that is a guarantee after their attacks on Iraq Nuclear Sites and Syrian Nuclear Sites !

I can predict an election in the USA in November , its easy to figure out General Romney and Private Ryan will Make Our Dayz !

oh and what was the last one , oh yeh, I can't see the Swedish Government or Legal System dropping anything whilst the Poor Taxpayers in all the countries concerned are Paying the Bill !

What a Planet , beam me up Scotty oops ! I better be careful what I say he may just beam me up ! Well its a far better place up there !
17:40 September 1, 2012 by timbenton51
Why should Assange "answer" for his crime if there is NONE to answer for?

The whole premise of a "Rape" or 'Sexual Assualt" is BOGUS. There was neither. The whole thing was made up initially by two women who became jealous and sought revenge. One of the women, Ms. A, actually wrote a blog entitled "How to Get Revenge on a Cheating Lover Using the Legal System." She actually recommends a women do exactly as she did to get revenge: go to the authorities and make some bogus claim of sex assault. She attempted to erase the blog entry, but some people made a record of it. Even Glenn Beck knows about all this as he did a piece on his show about it. You can't make this stuff up!!

The real "crime" is false accusations of rape. It is only being treated seriously because the Swedish authorities see an opportunity to use the bogus charge to win favor with the US government. Every fair minded person should be very concerned that the authorities would abuse the legal system for such a person.

All the sanctimonious comments from people on this site about the "horrors of rape" and "Assange is a rapist etc." are total propaganda or just plain ignorannce.
17:42 September 1, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
It is nothing more than a smear campaign. The nature of the claims against the two women vary quite dramatically from them being unwilling participants to CIA operatives.

The misinformation about the accusations are also quite baffling. There are only 4 accusations, which only a court can determine quilt.

There are only 3 people who know the truth. For each accusation involved only two people, one of the women and Assange. The only place that this can be resolved is in Sweden.
19:13 September 1, 2012 by themoron
@ tinypinkant # 38

"There are only 3 people who know the truth. For each accusation involved only two people, one of the women and Assange. The only place that this can be resolved is in Sweden. "

You really made our day. Will you please let us know who are the only 3 people who know the truth? How can you wake up every day and see yourself in the mirror?

The following post is dedicated to you, tinypinkant:

17:40 September 1, 2012 by timbenton51

Why should Assange "answer" for his crime if there is NONE to answer for?

The whole premise of a "Rape" or 'Sexual Assualt" is BOGUS. There was neither. The whole thing was made up initially by two women who became jealous and sought revenge. One of the women, Ms. A, actually wrote a blog entitled "How to Get Revenge on a Cheating Lover Using the Legal System." She actually recommends a women do exactly as she did to get revenge: go to the authorities and make some bogus claim of sex assault. She attempted to erase the blog entry, but some people made a record of it. Even Glenn Beck knows about all this as he did a piece on his show about it. You can't make this stuff up!!

The real "crime" is false accusations of rape. It is only being treated seriously because the Swedish authorities see an opportunity to use the bogus charge to win favor with the US government. Every fair minded person should be very concerned that the authorities would abuse the legal system for such a person.

All the sanctimonious comments from people on this site about the "horrors of rape" and "Assange is a rapist etc." are total propaganda or just plain ignorannce."

Anna Ardin did not know she was "raped" because she is not a lawyer. (Claes Borgström) She went on the 15 of august with Assange to a party. TWO DAYS AFTER THE LAWYER TOLD HER THAT SHE WAS RAPED!
19:18 September 1, 2012 by bcterry
All comments on this site that say ABSOLUTELY that assange is innocent and there is no crime, the premise of assault or rape are bogus because the Swedish authorities see an opportunity to win favor with the U.S. government and are abusing the legal system, and other conspiracy theories with no basis in fact, the women are guilty of making false accusations etc. etc,. are subjective, assumptive, ignorant conclusions when the simple undeniable fact, ...... is that they are not privy to all the facts.
21:44 September 1, 2012 by timbenton51
@bcterry

No one is ever privy to "all the facts" about ANYTHING.

Nevertheless, this does not prevent people from drawing conclusions about things. This applies to every case and every news story that exists.

I can't think of a criminal case where so much of what transpired is known and in the public record. In the Assange case, there is an actua YouTube video of Assange making a presentation in Stockholm in 2010 with both women present. You can even see one of them primping herself in the front row. It's also known indisputably that Ms. A wrote a blog entry entitled "How to Get Revenge on an Ex-lover Using the Legal System." It's also indisputed that she attempted to delete it a few days after her accusation.

There is NOTHING to this false claim of rape. That is why it was DISMISSED the first time. It was resurrected only after Wikileaks published its State Department cables and powerrul people in Sweden realized they could use the flimsly allegations as a pretext to extradite Assange to Sweden and then to the US. Duh!!!!

There is no one here who can dispute even one shred of this because we all know every one of these facts and they are all a matter of public record. It is only the possibility of shadowy allegations from faceless women that give any life to the allegations at all.

Given this, why is anyone seriously calling for Assange to be extradited and charged?

A blind man can see that the whole thing is is nothing but a set up for political purposes.
22:32 September 1, 2012 by bcterry
"No one is ever privy to "all the facts" about ANYTHING. "

Exactly.

"Nevertheless, this does not prevent people from drawing conclusions about things. This applies to every case and every news story that exists."

Go ahead, but you could be wrong.

The top sentence of yours is the reason why.

Here is just one simple reason that is plausible.

There have been thousands of cases throughout the world where a suspect has been released after questioning because of lack of evidence, and upon further investigation new evidence had come to light where it suggested that same suspect may indeed have been implicated, and therefore warranted further questioning.

Now you can still spin that to suit your position, and you could be right, but the fact is happens all the time, and indeed even leads to charges and convictions, or even acquittals.
23:04 September 1, 2012 by timbenton51
bcterry:

"Now you can still spin that to suit your position, and you could be right, but the fact is happens all the time, and indeed even leads to charges and convictions, or even acquittals."

So?

Anybody could be guilty of anything. Does that mean everybody should be locked up until its conclusively proven that they are innocent? Who would be the jailers? After all, we could ALL be guilty of something. Can you prove you've never done anything wrong? I'm sure if given enough time, I could find some crime that you or anybody else can't prove they didn't do.

In the Assange case, there is no credible eveidence whatsoever. There is not a single fact about the case that Assange is guilty of anything. Some argue that he is guilty of not wearing a condom on a second engagement of sex when the woman asked for a condom the first time. However, she consented in the end, and asked "when will I see you again?" This is no rape.

You, and the prosecutor, are grasping at straws in a desparate attempt to find Julian Assange guilty of SOMETHING. The truth is that he is guilty of releasing secrets of a powerful countries and the powerful countries have determined he must be stopped. Using the pretext of a sexual assault fits their purposes perfectly because it discredits Assange in the mind of the public.

Stop trying to make a case that it's POSSIBLE that Assange is guilty because we can't prove conclusively that he can't be guilty. A system of justice does not work that way. That the Swedish authorities, and the British, have been allowed to carry on this way should make everyone very fearful. We all have much more to fear from our own governments than from Wikileaks. This case proves it.
23:06 September 1, 2012 by bcterry
Suit yourself.
07:52 September 2, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
bcterry ... just call "the decent" another fallacy. The will to grasping simple concepts is something they refused.
15:16 September 2, 2012 by bcterry
@ timbenton51,

"Stop trying to make a case that it's POSSIBLE that Assange is guilty because we can't prove conclusively that he can't be guilty. A system of justice does not work that way."

That's exactly how a justice system works. Both sides present their case, and a decision is made on ALL the evidence presented.

It's a democratic process, and it doesn't always work out the way we like.

Of course it doesn't work that way in dictatorial places like fascist islamic states, where freedom and equality do not exist.

"You, and the prosecutor, are grasping at straws in a desparate attempt to find Julian Assange guilty of SOMETHING."

First off. Don't tell me what i am desperate in attempting to do, you have no bloody idea.

I have stated my position many times on this subject, and if you have not seen it, all you have do is simply ask me in a civil tone, and you would probably get an answer.

And further more, who in the hell are you to tell me, or anyone else, to stop making our case, it doesn't work that way.

You, or others here that shall remain unnamed, are simply in no position to dictate anything, to anyone.

There are some of us, unlike yourself and others, who are not ready to pass absolute, unwavering, end of story judgment and conclusions on this situation, you'll simply have to deal with it.

@ Tiny Red Ant. Although it can be difficult at times for all of us, be thankful you can still still retain a semblance of objectivity. However, we are still entitled to our opinions.

Cheers
17:38 September 2, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

Monday 23rd July 2012

"When Julian Assange arrived in Sweden in August 2010 he was greeted like a conquering hero. But within weeks there was a warrant out for his arrest and he was being investigated for rape and sexual molestation. Today he is taking sanctuary in the Ecuadorean Embassy in London, arguing he won't receive justice if he's taken to Sweden and that US authorities are building a case for his extradition."

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm

From minute 31:30, you can clearly see the "subpoena" issued by the Grand Jury in the United States

Re: II - 3/10GG3793/II-937

against Wikileaks and Julian Asange to investigate a "conspiracy to communicate or transmit national defese communications" and "information protected from disclosure from national defense".

At bsterry, Nomark, cogito, tinyredant and Co: If the above information does not close your so-called brains and does not prove that the US is really after Wikileaks and Assange and about the lies made by Sofia Wilen and Anna Ardin, I do not know what shall we (others and I) do with you.

These women, Sofia Wilen and Anna Ardin, more the latter than the first one, conspired with their lawyer, Expressen, Marianne Ny, Bodstróm and Clinton to put Assange under US custody so he would face charges of whatever the US wants. There are voices in the land of the Nobel Peace Prize winner, calling for Assange's dead. Don't believe themoron?

Go back to school and do your homework, based on a proper research and not in speculations and manipulations of the truth and a total disrespect for the live of someone who showed the world part of the dirt surrounding the land that dictates how Sweden should react. Don't believe me again?

Well, On November 27, 2006, Amnesty International issued a full report with the

title: "Mohammed El Zari, Ahmed Agiza.

Violations of fundamental human rights by Sweden confirmed.

The United Nations, later confirmed this and El Zari and Agiza were granted a huge amount by the Swedish government as compensation for the suffering provoked to them when they put them into a plane chartered by the CIA and they were delivered to Egypt where they were tortured.

Do you want more? If you do, then do a proper job reading, and I mean THOROUGHLY READING the documents, declarations, etc, etc, contained in a

Magnificent site www.nnn.se especially the section entitled

"Assange & Sweden"

And go carefully by reading the Introduction, Sequence of Events, Police Interviews, and Resources.
18:45 September 2, 2012 by bcterry
"15:27 August 30, 2012 by themoron "

"Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has been detained in solitary confinement for the last seven months, despite not having been convicted of any crime, having been a model detainee, and having evidenced no signs of violence or even disciplinary misdemeanors. Manning has been kept alone in a cell for 23 hours a day, barred from exercising in that cell, deprived of sleep, and denied even a pillow or sheets for his bed. "

Take special note of "the last 7 months.

Now the facts.

"On April 20, 2011, the Pentagon transferred Manning to the Midwest Joint Regional Correctional Facility, a new medium-security facility in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, where he was placed in an 80-square-foot cell with a window and a normal mattress, able to mix with other pre-trial detainees and keep personal objects in his cell.[59]"

That transfer happened 16 months ago.
20:26 September 2, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

# 48 BS TERRIER: your post is one of the many proofs about the way you twist the information and print lies so they fit your dubious intentions against Assange.

As usual, you have proven to be a liar, a BIG ONE.

Manning was arrested in May 29, 2010 and he was kept locked alone for 23 hours a day over an 11-month period in conditions that he also bound might have constituted torture.

Manning was initially held for almost three months at Camp Arifjan in Kuwait, and then transferred in July 2010 to the Marine corps base at Quantico in Virginia. He was held there for another eight months in conditions that aroused widespread condemnation, including being held in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day and being made to strip naked at night

O.K. You BS Terrier: From may 2010 up until April 2011, we are talking of an 11 months period. From May 29, 2011 up until August 29, 2012, we are talking of a 15 months period.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un

"The UN special rapporteur on torture has formally accused the US government of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment towards Bradley Manning, the US soldier who was held in solitary confinement for almost a year on suspicion of being the WikiLeaks source.

"Juan Mendez has completed a 14-month investigation into the treatment of Manning since the soldier's arrest at a US military base in May 2010. He concludes that the US military was at least culpable of cruel and inhumane treatment in keeping Manning locked up alone for 23 hours a day over an 11-month period in conditions that he also found might have constituted torture.

"The special rapporteur concludes that imposing seriously punitive conditions of detention on someone who has not been found guilty of any crime is a violation of his right to physical and psychological integrity as well as of his presumption of innocence," Mendez writes.

The findings of cruel and inhuman treatment are published as an addendum to the special rapporteur's report to the UN general assembly on the promotion and protection of human rights. They are likely to reignite criticism of the US government's harsh treatment of Manning ahead of his court martial later this year.

You cannot be more pathetic because there is not a bigger condition that that one.

Please, stop "writing" your dirt in the Assange threads, unless you go back and learn everything from scratch and do a proper search.

And if you look in Wikipedia, as you did, at least give Wikipedia some credit, do not steal its contents.

´P.S. Why do you not dare writing how Manning was treated before he was transferred to the

Midwest Joint Regional Correctional Facility?

I know the answer: Simply because it does not suite your personal interests. Wrong Pinocchio?
21:15 September 2, 2012 by bcterry
Let me see now, #49 posted,

"15:27 August 30, 2012 by themoron "

"Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has been detained in solitary confinement for the last seven months, despite not having been convicted of any crime, having been a model detainee, and having evidenced no signs of violence or even disciplinary misdemeanors. Manning has been kept alone in a cell for 23 hours a day, barred from exercising in that cell, deprived of sleep, and denied even a pillow or sheets for his bed. "

I believe i see the words "the last seven years", close observation says, yep, their there right up in there.

T
21:42 September 2, 2012 by themoron
#50

Did you ever go to a kindergarten? You can see whatever you like, but the truth: you are more than pathetic. No more wast of time on my part and I hope that others, like Prestonrobsun, timbenton51, etc. finally understand what kind of a "debater" you are. YOU DO NOT READ. YOU INVENT. YOU TWIST THINGS. YOU WANT TO TEACH RELEGION TO THE POPE HIMSELF.

How can you exist with the way you are? You want Assange prosecuted in the US. It looks like not only Anna Ardin is supposed to collaborate with the CIA but you too. Give my

very best regards to your boss Hillary. Sweden says hello too.
22:11 September 2, 2012 by bcterry
For some unknown reason my post was entered before i finished, the 7 years was also incorrect.

I will try once more.

Let me see now, #49 posted,

"15:27 August 30, 2012 by themoron "

"Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has been detained in solitary confinement for the last seven months, despite not having been convicted of any crime, having been a model detainee, and having evidenced no signs of violence or even disciplinary misdemeanors. Manning has been kept alone in a cell for 23 hours a day, barred from exercising in that cell, deprived of sleep, and denied even a pillow or sheets for his bed. "

I point out the fact he has been in a new medium facility for the past 16 months.

49 then calls me a liar.

I have never disputed his previous mistreatment, in fact i do acknowledge that was true, but due to the many protests, it was correctly rectified and he was moved, and his confinement conditions have been greatly improved, as they should be.

49 then berates me for not mentioning his previous treatment in my #48, but hypocritically in his post i referenced, there was no mention at all of Manning's greatly improved current conditions. :)

Now for the 2nd time 49 says he will no longer waste his time with me, ...... i hope he sticks to it this time.
03:14 September 3, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Now that is quite amusing.

No one even suggested that Assange is guilty of any crime, but some try suggest that others has said that. All was being stated is the process that everyone goes through when accused of a crime.

The position that I have taken is that US prosecutors has every right to investigate if any crimes have been committed in how Wikileaks obtained government documents or other material. If there is enough evidence then they have a right to prosecute on those responsible. The current investigation against Wikileaks is being has already started, all under right written in the US constitution.

People rights are restricted when they are accused of a crime. They do have "The Right to Trial" and the right to be "Innocent Till Proven Guilty." Relating to Assange he has a right to "the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him."

No one is saying "it's possible that he is guilty because we can't prove conclusively that he can't be guilty." Legal proceeding only progress if there is enough evidence that "harm" has occurred, and defendants have been charged.

What is being said is that there are serious allegations against Julian Assange, and he must address them. He was given "fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial" on those allegations.

Even being given assurances that any further extradition request will be a will be fair and impartial, Assange refuses to go to Sweden. This is even despite the fact that this will have to be done by both Swedish and British courts if he is in Sweden. Also, that his extradition will be refused if it is political in nature and that the punishment are considered inhumane.

At this stage the only way the case against Assange will be dropped is if time runs out.
05:13 September 3, 2012 by USARoadWarrior
I am no supporter of Assange, however, only a fool or a circus clown believes that Assange will not be served up to the US if he is sent to Sweden

And, US law is not clear on whether there can be any charges on Assange. First, he is not a US citizen. Second, it appears all his "wiki leaking" was done outside of US jurisdiction. Third, US laws and court ruling precedents tend to favor those who have released sensitive or secret information "that was handed to them by someone in the government". Fourth....more than likely...the US govt wants Assange so they can make sure he does not talk...especially if he is subpaeoned to testify as a witness in a US criminal proceeding.

I cannot comment on his Swedish charges since I am not familiar with Swedish law...however I am familiar with US law....and there are some major problems if the US were to arrest and detain him...they may not have any legal standing
06:27 September 3, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

#52 You wrote: "I have never disputed his previous mistreatment, in fact i do acknowledge that was true...and his confinement conditions have been greatly improved, as they should be." #49 then berates me for not mentioning his previous treatment in my #48, but hypocritically in his post i referenced, there was no mention at all of Manning's greatly improved current conditions. :)"

For heavens sake BSTERRIER: Once again, you manipulate the information to suit your devious and crooked interests.

# 53 Tiny Red Ant: You write like a lawyer, so I suppose you are a lawyer. It is far much better to write as a lawyer who, for one reason or another, is not fully aware of the facts, than to write like a LIAR (BSTERRY) and twist the facts so they suit his devious and crooked interests).

Your "No one even suggested that Assange is guilty of any crime, but some try suggest that others has said that" is contradictory. Either "no one ...", or "some try". But let me inform you that if you have not read properly ALL the information published about Assange in TL, you have never read the "Assange is guilty of charge", "Assange is a rapist and a terrorist" Etc, etc, etc comments.

For your info, 1) Julian Assange is not charged with anything in Sweden.

2) Julian Assange did not flee Sweden to avoid questioning. He was given permission to leave the country on the 15th September 2010.

3) The case against Julian Assange was initially dropped, and deemed so weak it could not warrant investigation. After the intervention of a Swedish politician close to American diplomats, a different prosecutor revived it.

4) In all instances, the 2 plaintiffs consented to sexual intercourse, which they did not take the initiative to stop: they never expressed non-consent and afterwards declared to not have felt threatened by Julian Assange.

5) Swedish prosecutor, Marianne Ny, refused to provide Julian Assange or his lawyers with information on the allegations against him in writing. This violates the Swedish Code of Procedure (RB 23:18) and the European Convention of Human Rights (article 5), and the EU Fundamental Charter on Human Rights. Prosecution also refused all voluntary offers for cooperation.

6) If extradited to Sweden: still without charge, Assange would be held incommunicado and placed under solitary confinement. Pre-trial detention would last for an indefinite period. Trial in Sweden would be held in secret.

7) The Swedish legal system features lay judges who are appointed because of their political affiliations. Have no formal legal training. There is no jury, and there are only "nämndeman" (layman) who are not professional lawyers and can decide whatever they feel is right, but not based in jurisprudence

8) Sweden has the highest per capita rate of cases brought to the European Court of Human Rights relating to article 6.1 (right to a fair trial).

That's all folks!
14:15 September 3, 2012 by Hisingen
Heavens above. All you damned tinpot lawyers are so wearisome. You know this, you know that, you have proof, and above all you support this creep who - no matter what you say - is wanted in the UK now for breaking his bail.

For heaven's sake get off your high horses and get a life. You simply pour out vitriol on anyone who does not have the same point of view as Your Highnesses.

You are all bloody boring, to put it simply.

SHUT UP, since you have no qualifications to judge the one or the other, you only think you do. And you all know what Thought did - - -
14:30 September 3, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Assange can be extradited to the US with any extraditable offense and the approval of the UK. Both will be needed.

1) Upon returning to Sweden Assange will be reprimanded into custody. He will either be formally charged, or be released after the investigation is complete. At this point it is doubtful that he will be released. Any question about Assange being issued bail is mute as he has proven he is unreliable.The trial will follow shortly after he has been charged, but with ample to time give his lawyers time to prepare a defense.

2) Assange was allow to continue with his life while the that "investigations were on going". On September 21st for an interview on September 28th. "provisionally" agreed on. Assange left Sweden on September 27th.

3) There is absolutely nothing unusual for cases to be reopened at a later date, nor is it a violation of an individual's rights. No evidence has been presented that there was political interference in the two cases against Assange.

4) The accusations relates to act that were consent never existed or the specific act was not consented to.

5) The allegations against Assange were "promptly presented" argued in court. "When the preliminary investigation has advanced so far that a person is reasonably suspected of committing the offence, he shall, when he is heard, be notified of the suspicion. To the extent possible without impediment to the investigation, ...." It is unknown the timeline of the complaint. However, with the information provided it is doubtful Assange's rights have been violated.

6) Swedish rape trial's are held in private. This is not unusual for such an offense, as a respect to the alleged victims right to confidentiality.

7) Sweden has the best judicial system in Europe.

8) It seems to be a quote repeated without verifying its authenticity. There is a significant difference between "cases brought" and "violations." For 2011 Sweden had 4 judgements and all "Judgments finding no violation." That was out of 2 590 number of applications decided.

Further investigation was able to determine that with a population of 4,434,547

Moldova had 99 violations for 1959-2011 while Sweden has only 26 during that period with double the population of Moldova.

Reference(8): ECHR violations(Violation by Article and by State 1959-2011 and "Turkey Ranks Highest in ECHR Human Rights Violations Cases, 2011" [select:Click here for the full report])
15:49 September 3, 2012 by themoron
themoron says: # 57 Tiny Red Ant:

I thought you had some knowledge about judicial systems in the world, but your

7..- "Sweden has the best judicial system in Europe" makes me wonder if you know which is the country who has the best judicial system in the world. You know which one? The country of Mickey Mouse.

The US. If for no other reason than the power of its law makers and judges is LIMITED by a written Constitution.

Other reasons:

1. In cases where the state is prosecutor it must prove charges beyond doubt.

2. Jury system of non-professional jurors from the location where the incident arose.

3. Right to confront witnesses -- ie. cannot be convicted on hearsay or by confidential witnesses not subject to cross examination, and the right to cross-examine them.

4. Right to have the court compel witnesses to appear.

5. Absolute right to counsel (and even state supplied one in criminal cases)

6. Right to a public trial (no secret procedures)

7. Absolute right to appeal.

8. Everyone's testimony has equal weight.

9. The adversary system: Your lawyer represents Your interests only & not the government's or god's or any one else's

10. Confidentiality: everything you say to your lawyer is confidential.

Many countries have SOME of the above protections. None have them all

Just compare this to poor, little Sweden. No match!

In Sweden is where Assange might me judged, if he is.

But let me copy and paste posts 6, 7 and 8 of my previous post:

6.-If extradited to Sweden: still without charge, Assange would be held incommunicado and placed under solitary confinement. Pre-trial detention would last for an indefinite period. Trial in Sweden would be held in secret.

7) The Swedish legal system features lay judges who are appointed because of their political affiliations. Have no formal legal training. There is no jury, and there are only "nämndeman" (layman) who are not professional lawyers and can decide whatever they feel is right, but not based in jurisprudence

8) Sweden has the highest per capita rate of cases brought to the European Court of Human Rights relating to article 6.1 (right to a fair trial).

I don't think Assange cares about Moldovia. Assange fears the "justice" in Sweden where police, prosecutors, defendants ans witnesses colluded to make him appear as the greatest rapist in the world. Sorry, I forgot Expressen and Aftonbladet.
16:53 September 3, 2012 by bcterry
@USARoadWarrior,

Your description of the U.S. legal position seems reasonable.

It's the first time i've heard of him maybe being subpoenaed to testify as a witness, it's a good point.

Would be enough to warrant a request for extradition?

They have yet to lay any charges, because it's not clear as of yet if they have what they need to stand up legally in a trial.

Until they are sure they have enough, any prosecutor worth his salt would not o.k. it to go to trial.

It would be pointless to request an extradition under those conditions.

I could be wrong, but i don't see them bringing him over and incarcerating him to just sit and rot without laying any charges, or giving him right to council etc.

@55, who posted.

"For heavens sake BSTERRIER: Once again, you manipulate the information to suit your devious and crooked interests. "

Yes yes of course, now i'm a devious crook :), but as you ALWAYS do when prompted repeatedly by those who you berate with your accusations, you NEVER offer up any reason or proof.

Your only defense is to put them up as a hit and run, and then move on with more of the same.

You have twice posted you will not waste any more time with me, now i will leave you to have the last response to mine, i will leave it without responding, but PLEASE stick to it this to time.
19:18 September 3, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Moldova has cases brought to the European Court of Human Rights. It has a smaller population than Sweden, but has a higher "cases brought to the European Court of Human Rights relating to article 6.1."

Those two facts together gives Moldova a higher per-capita than Sweden. 99/1 is greater that 26/2 (13/1) for the person 1959-2011. This alone demonstrates that "Sweden has the highest per capita rate of cases brought to the European Court of Human Rights relating to article 6.1 " is false.

Complaints right to fair trail for 2011 Sweden had 0. For 2010 Sweden had 1 Moldova had 2. That further demonstrates your assertion is false.

Wherever that statement came from it is false. Suspicions arose when exact same statement can be found word or word when being referenced.

For effective criminal justice system Sweden ranks higher that the UK and the US. (Sweden:5/UK:10/US:21)

For access to civil justice Sweden ranks higher that the UK and the US. (7/13/20)

For fundamental rights Sweden ranks higher that the UK and the US. (1/13/19)

For absence of corruption Sweden ranks higher that the UK and the US. (2/16/17)

On all eight indicates from the "WJP Rule of Law Index" Sweden ranks higher than both countries. The UK and the US both have great systems, but not better that Sweden.

Assange's fears is unfounded.
22:25 September 3, 2012 by themoron
the moron says:

Tiny read ant. I got the message. Sweden is the Kingdom of Heaven. No other country in the world is better than Sweden.

Did you read the latest news about Sweden helping US to bomb Irak back in 2003. That is false, according to your standards. It cannot be true that the country that closed its eyes so that Hitler could send more than two million soldiers to wipe out the Norwegians and the Finns is guilty of any type of misbehaviour.

tiny read ant: Assange fears are well founded if we see what the US did for many months to Bradley Manning. There is a subpoena

issued by the Grand Jury in the United States

Re: II - 3/10GJ3793/II-937 (GJ stands for Grand Jury)

against Wikileaks and Assange.

Tiny Red Ant: Do us a favour: Could you be wrong, at least one time? Everything you write is the Bible and the Quoran together.

All the posters in TL are a bunch of ignorants. If you are so great, what are you doing on Earth? Go up and help God to fix the Universe so that we have a better world to live in.

You, as an Assange hater, why you do not give credit (why should you do it if you are a typical Swede, or at least, you are acting as one) to the only person in the whole damn world who has shown the dirty part of the US?

Sweden is well known all over the world for having problems in its judicial system.

"Other formal features could be listed, but we shall stop here. However, the list raises a strange question. Why did things turn out equally poorly in Sweden and in the United States? Why did Denmark, Norway and Finland suffer significantly fewer absurd convictions for sexual abuse, despite having less satisfactory legal systems? One explanation is that the Swedish system also has problems, some of which are the reverse side of its positive features."

http://www.nkmr.org/english/the_defense_counsel_the_weakest_link_of_the_legal_system_in_sweden.htm

Be my guest
23:14 September 3, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Manning got arrested by his employer, and has been incarcerated under his employers authority.

Every country has its flaws.

Claims in relationship to Sweden's judicial were made, and need to be verified. Verification determined that the information was false. The correct information was provided with references for checking.

The misinformation about Swedish legal system will not undermine the accusations against Assange. Nor, will they prevent Assange from getting a fair trial if he is charged.

Sweden has a fair judicial system, no matter what distractions are made to change the subject.

It seems that professions in "the rule of law" have a great in-depth knowledge on "the rule of law" than psychology professor Max Scharnberg. Let us just call the former "Project Steve."
00:18 September 4, 2012 by themoron
#tinyredant # 62

Mr. Stephen Jay Gould: Your

"Claims in relationship to Sweden's judicial were made, and need to be verified. Verification determined that the information was false. The correct information was provided with references for checking." paragraph is a beauty.

"...and need to be verified". And then you write "Verification determined that the information was false".

Tiny: Either "needs to be verified" or "verification determined". You cannot have both. Oh sorry: You are God and you can have both. Hallelujah!

Who are you, or whom do you think you are to asseverate that "The misinformation about Swedish legal system will not undermine the accusations against Assange." ?

What are the "accusations" against Assange? Rape? Consensual sex? Terrorism?

Please, enlighten me, Master of Masters.
05:36 September 4, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Effort was taken to determine where you obtained your statistics on Sweden and they were found to be false. This isn't the difference between 1 and 3, but best and worst.

You were caught, get over it.

Your continual shift your argument is particularly uninteresting. That and any of your other methods are not original.

Your worship of Assange is irrational.

It is people like you the reason that I believe that Assange's concerns are just an overly active imagination.

If you don't want to know the truth and facts that is no of my concerns.
05:38 September 4, 2012 by timbenton51
@USARoadwarrior #54

"I cannot comment on his Swedish charges since I am not familiar with Swedish law...however I am familiar with US law....and there are some major problems if the US were to arrest and detain him...they may not have any legal standing.

You seem sincere in your comments USARoadwarrior, but you are clearly not a good student of the US legal system...or just plain naive.

The "problems" with the legal case against Assange in the US you speak of don't mean much if the courts and the government don't care about legal precdents and constitution. And they don't. All that it will take to put Julian Assange in prison for life is a federal judge who will simply say "Julian Assange: guilty...case closed."

Then people like you can babble all you want about legal jurisdiction, the pentatgon papers etc. It won't make any difference. No one will stand up for Assange. No one that wants to continue in their job anyway.

For whatever reason, technology or culture, people don't care about the formatlities of the legal system any more. If you're a "personna nongrata" then you are dead meat. Only public pressure can save anyone. There is not sufficient support for Assange n the US, Britain, or Sweden, which is why he is in the situation that he is in. If public support for Assange shifts, so will his legal chances. Legal status and popular support are identical today.
10:06 September 4, 2012 by themoron
the moron says:

05:36 September 4, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant

"Effort was taken to determine where you obtained your statistics on Sweden and they were found to be false. This isn't the difference between 1 and 3, but best and worst."

You were the one who put statistics on Sweden, not me. Read your own posts. Besides, your "effort was taken to determine bla, bla, bla" phrase, is another prove of your pomposity. The difference between 1 and 3 is tinypinkant.

"Your continual shift your argument is particularly uninteresting. That and any of your other methods are not original."

I do not shift my arguments. You are the one that behaves pompously.

"Your worship of Assange is irrational."

Pinkyant: I don't worship Assange. I worship "FREEDOM OF SPEECH", something that I guess you do not know what it means.

You have written truths and lies here, and up until now, now one

has deleted them; not even TL who has very "strict rules". That is FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I do care of what MIGHT happen to Assange if sent to the US and IF he is treated like the way Bradley Manning was treated his first 11 months in jail.

Apparently, you care only about your inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others.

"It is people like you the reason that I believe that Assange's concerns are just an overly active imagination."

No twinky. Assange's concerns ARE NOT DUE to an overly active imagination. It is people like you who tries and tries and tries to deny the right of Assange to be worried about the possibility of a country (your beloved Sweden), to send him to the US in a chartered plane by the CIA, like it did back in 2001. Have you forgotten about the two Egyptians sent to Egypt with the consent of Anna Lindh? They were tortured and your government (the Swedish government, but of course) had to pay them millions of your inflated currency to compensate the Egyptians for their sufferings.

Now, I am just expecting your usual "effort was taken to determine where you obtained those facts and they were found to be false."

"If you don't want to know the truth and facts that is no of my concerns."

If YOU do not want to learn the truth and the facts, facts, facts, about the Assange case, that is your problem, tinypinkywonderant.

You are amazing. Truly amazing. There is only another poster that ALMOST matches your delirium. That other seems to be a little ignorant about the facts, but he is honest. You are not. You want to be recognized as the Messiah of TL threads. It does not function that way.

And again: "effort was taken to determine where you obtained those facts and they were found to be false." Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho
11:25 September 4, 2012 by bcterry
"All that it will take to put Julian Assange in prison for life is a federal judge who will simply say "Julian Assange: guilty...case closed."

Could you give us a couple of case examples.
18:16 September 4, 2012 by Hisingen
themoron acts more moronic with every word he/she writes. He/she goes on about free speech but seemingly it is only his/her free speech that matters. To Tiny Red Ant, I would simply suggest leave it.. There is no-one in the world like a moron. Why they breed them I don't know, but that is something I guess he/she only can answer. You will never win an argument - or discussion - with such a person since they are so fixated with their own version that any counter argument falls on deaf ears. Let him/her rant on, since he/she does himself/herself no good at all, and only succeeds in digging a deeper hole in which to bury himself/herself. Amen.
21:20 September 4, 2012 by themoron
#68 Hisingen

the moron says: First of all, I act moronic because I am themoron. Do not forget it.

Second, if you do not like freedom of speech, what in the hell are you doing here? Just having fun? If you can, do not suggest anything to Tiny Red Ant. He does not need posters like you. He might be stubborn, but at least he shows to be more intelligent in his comments, than you. He certainly does not need such a poor lifesaver like you.

I have not read from you any valid argument against mine or against others in the different threads about Assange. What I have provided to the threads, and I have been praised for that, are FACTS and only FACTS. Tiny Red Ant has provided FACTS too.

The difference is that the Ant is more direct in his way of expressing himself and I am more colloquial.. But you? What have you written to provide facts to the Assange Circus?

I suggest that before jumping into conclusions with me. go back to the Swedish school you came from and try to find out where did they throw your empty head. It most be in the "soptunna", R.I.P. Kissinger
01:27 September 5, 2012 by Hisingen
Oh how I bow to your superior knowledge, your highness moronic idiot.. You wouldn't know a fact if it was hammered into that oversized head of yours. That has been proven in other of your so-called contributions. Freedom of speech yeah, As long as anyone says what you feel to be in agreement with your blatherings. You assume this and that, and only what comes from your vitriolic pen is the truth.

All that can be said about that is that I would find the comments provided by the Tiny Red Ant as containing far more credibility than anything that comes from you. Grasping fantasies from that vacuum you have between your ears is making you the laughing stock of these comments. Have fun. You are at least providing entertainment for readers of The Local. They are wondering just what will be the next fantasy you provide. Yes, you are truly a great comedian - well not all that funny, but a little amusing. As to facts about the assange circus, the main fct is that he is wanted by the British police for breaking his bail, and his bailees are wondering when he well re-imburse them the $560,000 that they foolishly put up. Everything else is just so much empty speculation, but you would never understand that, since he is your god.
09:52 September 5, 2012 by themoron
@ Hisingen

themoron says: Your brain suffers the continuous wagon wheel illusion.

You want facts? Choose:

1) Julian Assange is not charged with anything in Sweden.

2) The case against Julian Assange was initially dropped, (Eva Finne, Senior Prosecutor) and deemed so weak it could not warrant investigation. After the intervention of a Swedish politician close to American diplomats, a different prosecutor revived it.

3) In all instances, the 2 plaintiffs consented to sexual intercourse, which they did not take the initiative to stop: they never expressed non-consent and afterwards declared to not have felt threatened by Julian Assange.

4) A condom submitted as evidence by complainant AA, who claimed it had been deliberately torn by Julian Assange during sexual intercourse, contains no chromosomal DNA from either the complainant or Julian.

5) Text messages exchanged between complainants and their friends contradict the factual allegations in the European Arrest Warrant (EAW) issued for Julian Assange

6) After the date of the alleged sexual misconduct: a) Complainant AA created then deleted evidence (tweets) indicating she was enjoying Julian Assange's company; b) AA went as far as suggesting one of her friends (Witness C) should be intimate with Julian as well.

7) The law firm hired in the Assange investigation is ran by Claes Borgström and by former minister Thomas Bodström. Bodström is a friend of police interrogator Irmeli Krans, who interrogated complainant SW

8) Police interrogator Irmeli Krans is, in turn, friends with the other plaintiff, complainant AA, with whom she has political ties. Krans also breached protocol by commenting negatively about Julian Assange on social media. [Source: Irmeli Krans: The Facebook Trail]

9) Swedish prosecutor, Marianne Ny, refused to provide Julian Assange or his lawyers with information on the allegations against him in writing. This violates the Swedish Code of Procedure (RB 23:18) and the European Convention of Human Rights (article 5), and the EU Fundamental Charter on Human Rights. Prosecution also refused all voluntary offers for cooperation.

10) Both the EAW and the Interpol red notice were issued for Julian by Swed Eva Finne (Senior prosecutor) en just before WikiLeaks began to publish Cablegate.

11) The allegations against Julian Assange do not constitute an offense in Australia or in the UK. The offences described in the EAW are not extradition offences]

12) If extradited to Sweden: still without charge, Assange would be held incommunicado and placed under solitary confinement. Pre-trial detention would last for an indefinite period. Trial in Sweden would be held in secret.

13) The Swedish legal system features lay judges who have no formal legal training

More ?:

http://www.newskykite.com/sdp/328631/4/cp-1395799/0/Stunt_Kite.html

Keep on: I did not you had a brainfart business

http://www.kissbrainfart.co.se
15:36 September 5, 2012 by Hisingen
I have not said a word about any Swedish charges or accusations against an Australian moron. But since you seem to be unable to read, it matters but little. Especially so since the last reference in your morning sickness rant refers more to your own problems wherein you seem not to care for Swedish law courts that the sawdust you use for a brain belittles to such an extent. In fact I don't think that you are such a moron as you make out. Just a helpless gibbering idiot who spends his/her/its day dipping a pen in vitriol. You had better not open your door, as those knocking are wearing white coats and carrying a straight-jacket. There are places - even in Sweden - for objects like you.
16:46 September 5, 2012 by themoron
#72 Hisingen

Since you do not have good arguments, you go to the insults. Have I insulted you? Have I referred to you as a helpless gibbering idiot, even if you are? Have I referred to you as an object, even if you are one of the lowest types? Have I referred to you as "your highnes idiotic moron", even if you are one of the greatest specimens in the whole world?

No, Hissingen, just no. Insults are not my specialty. Irony is. That is the difference beetween being a Swede like you are and an alien moron like I am. Fortunately, I have read that not all the Swedes are like you. That is the reason they built such a magnificent country.

You are the one who is unable to read. You only bla, bla, bla, bla. What a shame. Are you satisfied with the way you are? Perhaps it is in your gens, so be careful.

Keep on insulting me. You are damn good at it. Are you a Swede? That is one their traits.

And once more: If you say that Assange is a moron, it means that you are, either in the CIA's payroll or in the MI6 one.

To bcterry

Attention: I sincerely apologize to bcterry for having written that Hague was an "it" and not a "he" and the stuff about the capital of The Netherlands. What a goof!

I have written some stupidities in my life, but this one got the prize "The Moron of the Year 2012". You, the Grand Jury, just awarded it to me.

It was a mistake resulting from neglect that you were writing about William Jefferson Hague the Foreign Secretary and First Secretary of State of Britain, and what he declared.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa.

P.S. I very seldom apologize, but in this case, I felt obliged to do it.
21:21 September 14, 2012 by Scepticion
Here how a court in Germany ruled in a rape case: not enough proof, because the girl did not defend herself strongly enough:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/vorwurf-der-vergewaltigung-landgericht-essen-spricht-angeklagten-frei-a-855639.html

So, clearly, Assange's case (broken condom, having said "no sex without condom" the night before) would not be considered "rape" according to these rules. Only Sweden is making a mess of it.
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