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ASSANGE EXTRADITION FIGHT
Putin weighs in on Assange: 'it's political'

Putin weighs in on Assange: 'it's political'

Published: 06 Sep 2012 11:58 GMT+02:00
Updated: 06 Sep 2012 11:58 GMT+02:00

Assange is currently holed up in the Ecuador embassy in London in a bid to avoid arrest and extradition to Sweden, from where he fears he could be extradited on to the United States to face potential accusations of treason.

"They (the British judiciary) decided to extradite him. What is this? Of course it is double standards, that is clear," Putin told state-controlled English language network Russia Today in an interview whose transcript was released by the Kremlin.

"As far as I know, Ecuador asked Sweden for guarantees that Assange will not be extradited from Sweden to the United States. It has received no such guarantees."

"Of course this leads one to think that this is a political case," Putin said.

Putin added: "We are always being told about the independence of the judicial system in Britain -- that it takes a decision and no-one can influence it."

The US diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks in late 2010 provided uncomfortable reading for Russian officials, notably a description of the country as a "mafia state".

But Russian state media has warmed to Assange as an alternative-thinking anti-Western crusader and Russia Today earlier this year broadcast a series of interviews Assange recorded with controversial world figures.

These included the leader of the Lebanese Shiite militant group Hezbollah Hassan Nasrallah and the man who would later allow Assange sanctuary at the Ecuador embassy in London, Ecuador President Rafael Correa.

AFP/The Local

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Your comments about this article

13:57 September 6, 2012 by umeåstar
Nobody cares what Putin thinks.. he is a total d bag and that country needs to just take it over and put a real leader in charger. As for the D bag hiding like big ol chicken.. I don't care about your other charges from the US .. you need to deal with the sex crimes.. its not the first time this freak has gotten in trouble for this... wiki leak that
14:02 September 6, 2012 by Reason abd Realism
Oh Really?

And what bout the murder of Alexander Litvinenko in a London restaurant by Polonium 210 poisoning administered by a Russian agent in 2006, while Putin was leader?

Putin's refusal to allow the extradition of Andrei Lugovoi to the UK to assist with their murder investiagation indicates his utter disregard for international criminial investigations, so he is hardly an unbiased observer.

Whether people support JA or conspiiracy theories about JA or not, people have to recognize that no nation ever provides guarantees that a particular individual will not be deported to a third nation, unless that third nation will subject the individual to the death penalty, because new evidence could surface about a crime in some third nation that is unrelated to the conspircay theory, for example if JA happened to murdered a family in Vermont or Iceland (two places that do not have the death penalty).
14:09 September 6, 2012 by Nomark
Putin is having a laugh, as the President of Ecuador. Two fearless champions of human rights and freedom of expression....
14:35 September 6, 2012 by Uncle
What about Pussy Riot? Not political? Khodorkovsky? Searches in the apartments of opposition activists? Dissappearances and beating of russian journalists who dig into what pro-Russian clan does in Chechnya? Not political?

How about sudden tax issues for IKEA when Sweden criticized Russia? How about very sudden health issues with production of ex-republics that decide to move away from Putin line?

He is nothing, but a violent bigot who sits as tzar of speechless nation.
14:39 September 6, 2012 by B Slick
Ok Mr.Putin lets talk about "double standards". You say "in the case of Julian Assange that its "political" and you may be correct but while were on the topic of "political" and "double standards" lets talk about Mr.Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the Russian Yukos oil businessman that you sent to jail for 9 years because he would not cut you and your gang in on "the action" Lets talk. Hello--- hello--- hello Mr.Putin where are you??
15:26 September 6, 2012 by byke
Wasn't the intent of my Putin to rub other noses in it?

In a "don't throw stones in a glass house" type of way to show that even if he is guilty of such crimes, it makes other hypocrites by their actions? And even worse so when that are guilty of actions they criticise others with?

BTW - I am not pro Putin, just think the way it's been received may have been differnt to that meant.
19:51 September 6, 2012 by krattan
A strong Russia is good for Europe vs the US hegemony. This is one example.
20:12 September 6, 2012 by sgt_doom
Just the facts, ma'am.....

http://www.nnn.se/nordic/assange/suspicious.pdf
00:37 September 7, 2012 by timbenton51
EVEN Putin knows the ruthless campaign to get Julian Assnage is political. Ironic that Assange recently expressed solidarity with Pussy Riot.

The main point is clear: the British government's claim that their hands are tied and they can do nothing but extradite Assange to Sweden is nothing but LAUGHABLE. The case against Assange is a joke and the British government has 100 police officers located at the Ecudor embassy round the clock. A blind man could see it's political. Yet countless "blind men" posting on this site claim that the Assange case all business as usual - Assange is not being targeted or treated any differently than anyone else. Paleeez!!!!
10:30 September 7, 2012 by krattan
@sgt_doom

Good link. Thanks!
13:37 September 7, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

Who is afraid of the big bad wolf, big bad wol, big bad wolf.

I hate Putin because:

1.- Since 2000, he has NOT helped to stabilize the country's economy and politics. Russia is falling apart.

2.- He is a lakay from the US, together with UK and Sweden. He loves Mickey Mouse, Obama, Cameron, Sweden and Queen Elisabeth.

3.- He bought Swedish Jas-Grippen planes to bomb Lybia. His squad flew together with the Swedish one.

4.- The weapon used to murder Gadhaffi belonged to Putin and it was provided to the murderer by one of Putin's personal guards. Those who claim that it was a US weapon are a bunch of liars.

5.- He lied when he proved Sweden's Carl Bildt, that was Georgia

who started the shooting in the war in South Ossetia. "Even regardless of who was right in the conflict (eventually concluded that it was not Russia who fired the first shot, but Georgia), these are live people who lost their lives when the Georgians began shelling Tskhinvali. But the foreign minister (Carl Bildt) said "is just nonsense". It may be that in his eyes is Saakashvili (President of Georgia) a "good guy" and a good friend, and the killing of ossetierna are just "collateral casualties" that are inevitable in any war."

6.- He did not teach Sweden about democracy at a Press Conference held in April of 2011 with Fredrik Reinfeldt. He never said that Sweden was a dictatorship.

7.- Russia is providing the US with the weapons Nato is providing the liberators of Syria.

8.- He has not proved, like Limonov once did, that the F.B.I. is just as zealous in putting down American radicals as the K.G.B. is with its own radicals and dissidents."

9.- He accepted graciously the attacks made to him by David Cameron, befote he was elected as President for another 6-year term.

10.- He claims that what Pussy Riot wants is something that is equally terrifying, provocative and threatening to the established order in both Russia and the West (and has been from time immemorial): freedom from patriarchy, capitalism, religion, conventional morality, inequality and the entire corporate state system.

11- He stated that had they (Pussy Riot) performed the same act

of desecration in a Muslim or Jewish house of worship they

would have been dealt with mob justice.

12.- Russia is No. 6 in the richest countries of the World,

13.- Putin is the only world leader who bends his back to please the US and the EU in whatever they want.

And I hate him for stating that "it's political" the Assange Circus.

You can see why I am afraid of the big bad wolf.
15:32 September 7, 2012 by bcterry
There is one blatantly obvious thing that assange could do to strengthen support for his case, simply volunteer to be tested for HIV.

What possible reason could there be for not pursuing that blatantly obvious option?
18:10 September 7, 2012 by wakak
Not sure Putin is really helping Assange who could better chose his friends. It is adding insult to injury, in a way...

To bcterry #13: you would benefit reading more the Local. Assange's issue is not as simple as a HIV tes.

If you have 45 mn to educate yourself, just watch this, these Australian journalists did a tremendous job:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm
21:37 September 7, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

I read the following:

"Anyone who was really concerned about pursuing this case would aim their fire at the Swedish prosecutor, and at least ask her why she has abandoned the investigation.

"This includes the lawyer representing the plaintiffs, Claes Borgström, who was reportedly instrumental in getting the third prosecutor (Marianne Ny) to go after Assange. (The previous prosecutor assigned to the case had dropped it because the evidence is so weak). Borgström has been in the media defending the United States and its allies, rather than his clients, asserting that Assange "must know" that the case "has nothing to do with Wikileaks." But Borgström must know that there is a wealth of evidence that the United States is very much interested in punishing Assange, and it keeps growing: on August 18, the Sydney Morning Herald reported that Australia's foreign service was aware that U.S. authorities had been pursuing Assange for at least 18 months. And on August 24, Craig Murray, a former U.K. ambassador and 20-year career diplomat there, reported that his colleagues at the U.K. Foreign Office knew better than to make the unprecedented threat of invading Ecuador's embassy, but did so under pressure from Washington"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-weisbrot/swedens-shame_b_1861667.html

and

"Meanwhile, in a meeting with foreign journalists in Spain's capital Madrid, Assange's lawyer Baltazar Garzon said that based on information he obtained from people who have testified in the probe of Bradley Manning, US prosecutors have secretly launched an investigation into Assange and WikiLeaks.

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/09/06/260149/uk-accused-of-hypocrisy-over-assange/

themoron thinks like Putin: Assange's case is political

#14 wamark

I gave the tip about the link of the Australian some eight days ago. It might prove once more that TL posters do not read at all.And you are completely right. "Assange's issue is not as simple as a HIV test".
22:29 September 7, 2012 by bcterry
#14 wamark ,

I didn't say it was the be all and end all, i said it would strengthen his position.

One of the main concerns with one of the women is the unprotected sex she had with him, and not knowing whether or not he may be infected.

So if him simply cleared that up by taking a simple test, that issue would be put to bed for good.

So what exactly is your point in having any issue whatsoever with his taking the test?

All of his supporters should be 100% in agreement, as it would strengthen their position as well.

If you have to educate yourself, then to find out one way or the other would help you along in that regard.
23:53 September 7, 2012 by hawkeye ajustralia
"krattan

"A strong Russia is good for Europe vs the US hegemony. This is one example."

Oh you mean the US which stopped the Red Army from rolling across Sweden and the rest of Europe, allowing you Swedes to live prosperous lives in complete freedom? Yeah gotta stop that nasty USA from world domination. And of course the world really needs a strong Russia with a communist ex secret police meglomaniac in charge.
00:00 September 8, 2012 by timbenton51
@bcterry #13

Why doesn't Assange take an HIV test?

What for? That will not change a thing. There is nothing in the allegations against Assange that he needs to take an HIV test for. If it came back either positive or negative, what would that clear up?

You are confused. The original justification given by the two women for contacting authorities in the first place was to see if Assange could be tested for HIV. The prosecutors then took the stories and concocted the sex allegations. The women were clear that there was no rape. The only trouble is that in Sweden, the woman does not get to say whether she was raped or not. That up to the prosecutors. Supposedly this protects the woman from accountability for bringing charges. But this is totally unfair. It exposes an innocent person to prresecution by the authorities who may have a score to settle...which is exactly what is happening here.

In case you missed it, the HIV test is a total non-factor. Or is that blatantly obvious?
00:50 September 8, 2012 by hawkeye ajustralia
Incidentally the attacks on your favourite newspaper "The Local" by Assange supporters should clearly show the intent of these hacker groups to stifle anything,or anybody who disagrees with them. Now you may agree with their targets to date, but what happens when they target someone or some group who you support?

And krattan the US spends $100,000,000 p/a on the defence of Europe and your way of saying "thanks" is to want a stronger Russia which is the only real threat to you country besides Islamic terrorism. Your wear a "Che" shirt don't you?
02:31 September 8, 2012 by timbenton51
@ hawkeye ajustralia #19

What difference does it make how much the US spends? It doesn't justify shooting innocent people down in the street.

And, if found to have done that, (thanks to Wikileaks) it should be looked into by the proper authorities. This has not been done in the case of the US gunship shooting dead about 6 people on the street in Iraq, two of whom were Reuters reporters.

Why not?

A crime like that should not be kept secret.

The real danger to freedom comes not from perceived one-off terrorists, but from powerful countries that will stop at nothing to hunt down and eliminate opposition and then cover it up . The only protection is freedom of the press. Nowadays it seems ONLY Wikileaks is willing to provide. All the other news outlets are completely corporatized and will not report anything that is potentially damaging to powerful interests.

BTW, I don't wear a Che shirt, or any T-shirt that says anything other than Nike etc.
03:27 September 8, 2012 by bcterry
What for? That will not change a thing. There is nothing in the allegations against Assange that he needs to take an HIV test for."

You are confused, nowhere did i say there was.

You're putting words in my mouth.

I said specifically there was CONCERN.

"Early the next morning, Miss W told police, she had gone to buy breakfast before getting back into bed and falling asleep beside Assange. She had awoken to find him having sex with her, she said, but when she asked whether he was wearing a condom he said no. "According to her statement, she said: 'You better not have HIV' and he answered: 'Of course not,'"

YOUR WORDS,

"The original justification given by the two women for contacting authorities in the first place was to see if Assange could be tested for HIV. "

Thanks for confirming my point.
09:38 September 8, 2012 by hawkeye ajustralia
"What difference does it make how much the US spends? It doesn't justify shooting innocent people down in the street. "Geez that is about the stupidest comment I have ever read on this forum.

Are you going to stop the world because a couple of US troops shoot some people on the street and that means the world comes to an end?

Give me a break! As if you give a damn anyway.

Tell me something what has Sweden done or is doing to keep

western civilisation and the free world free? Absolutely nothing! I just wish America would pull out of Europe and let you whining Europeans pull your weight. for once.The only thing is, Sweden would either support the enemy as they did in WWII while claiming to be neutral, or Sweden would surrender immediately as she has already done to the Islamists.

As for "The real danger to freedom comes not from perceived one-off terrorists, but from powerful countries that will stop at nothing to hunt down and eliminate opposition and then cover it up "

Tell who have these "countries"hunted down?

If the US wanted to extradite Assange from Britain the Brits would comply immediately.,what's the point on extraditing him from Sweden which is not nearly as close politically to the US as Britain? Your conspiracy theories are just that -Stupid theories.
09:49 September 8, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Wow. The second leader with a dubious human rights records, and the only the second leader for that matter of fact. Maybe, it is a bad translation as Putin seems to be more intelligent than the quotes suggest.

"These Australian journalists did a tremendous job." There needs a time for people to stop listing the 4 corners program about Julian Assange as reliable. Those journalists did a horrible job.

Mark Weisbrot's article is a shame, and it is surprising that the Huffington Post would publish such a poor example of journalism.

bcterry's comment about HIV is easy to understand. One of the arguments suggest that the women ONLY went to the police for about how to get in contact or him to have an STD test. It seems to late now, but he could have just had a HIV/STD test and send it to the women's lawyers.

It is doubtful that they are arguing contrary to the accusations against Assange, but questioning one of the excuses used by Assange's apologists. The main point is that the arguments for the various conspiracies against Assange constantly change and are never really that consistent.

The great revelation by Wikileaks with the video is overstated. It has always been know that innocent people die in war, and that mistakes are made. It was a mistake where it was an issue of life and death. It is unknown what the perception was on the ground, but a woman and a child could be clearly seen avoiding the incident. I am grateful for Manning for releasing the video, but disappoint in Wikileaks for editing the video for better effect.

As seen by many comments some people do not know what rape is. In the simplest term it is an sexual act where no consent existed. That includes acts were threats or physical force was used to instigate intercourse.

An individual describes a situation that was involved intercourse to an investigator. However, the investigator is able to determine that there was no consent under the law the only conclusion that they can come to was the act was rape. At that point the investigator needs to inform the person on their rights. No conspiracy, but the way law enforcement works.
13:03 September 8, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

Wow! What a discovery. Of course Putin is more intelligent than the quotes suggest.

The 4 oorners program is a damn good job. It seem that you also believe to be an expert in journalism. Who are you to qualify if an article is good or bad? Randolph Hearst?

You are right on this: "It seems to late now, but he could have just had a HIV/STD test and send it to the women's lawyers.", but, it would not change the fact that Sweden wants him to be convicted for rape, HIV/STD test or not.

"The main point is that the arguments for the various conspiracies against Assange constantly change and are never really that consistent."

They do not change Tiny. You are the one who is always discovering new things to fit your purposes.

And now we come to the big one:

The revelation with the video has never been overstated. Ask the US and especially Hillary Clinton. Your "It has always been know that innocent people die in war, and that mistakes are made" is disgraceful.

The video released by Manning was not edited and the crew was laughing about what they were doing. It seems that you know more than all the persons and authorities and institutions who thoroughly analized the video that was entitled as "Collateral Damage" and is the cause for Manning facing a Martial court in the coming weeks.

Wikileaks has not edited anything as you falsely claim. Everything that it has revealed is true, whether you like it or not. Don't be an hypocrite by writing that you are "greatful to Manning".

And do not forget, as usual, that one of the women did not know she was raped because she is not a lawyer. And this is one more of the many facts that you do not want to recognize on purpuse. She new she was "raped", because the lawyer Claes Borgström told her so.

Assange had sex with the women (Anna Ardin and Sofia Wilen) because they consented to have sex with them. Two days after the "rape", Anna Ardin made a party with Julian Assange as a guest.

In all instances, the 2 plaintiffs consented to sexual intercourse, which they did not take the initiative to stop: they never expressed non-consent and afterwards declared to not have felt threatened by Julian Assange.

After the date of the alleged sexual misconduct: a) Complainant AA created then deleted evidence (tweets) indicating she was enjoying Julian Assange's company; b) AA went as far as suggesting one of her friends (Witness C) should be intimate with Julian as well.

Apparently Swedish laws are unique. If you have a penis you're half a rapist before you even get through customs. - Scott Adams
21:25 September 8, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
I am sorry gullible one, even though it is harsh I have to call you out on a liar.

#20 "It doesn't justify shooting innocent people down in the street.

And, if found to have done that, (thanks to Wikileaks) it should be looked into by the proper authorities. This has not been done in the case of the US gunship shooting dead about 6 people on the street in Iraq, two of whom were Reuters reporters."(02:31 September 8, 2012)

That was the incidence in Iraq was mentioned.

"....It has always been know that innocent people die in war, and that mistakes are made.

I am grateful for Manning for releasing the video, but disappoint in Wikileaks for editing the video for better effect."(09:49 September 8, 2012)

Over 7 hours later.

And yes the video was edited irrelevant to your refusal to check.

You took the comment made out of context.

Sorry, I would normally be nice but gullible you have lied. This idea that they where laughing in the video is also a lie.

Your various errors and fallacies are boring.
22:30 September 8, 2012 by timbenton51
@hawkeyeaustralia #22

"Are you going to stop the world because a couple of US troops shoot some people on the street and that means the world comes to an end?"

World need not "come to an end". War crimes should be investigated and the guilty prosecuted. For some reason you seem to have a problem with that. Kinda scarey.

@Tiny Red Ant #25

"The video was edited". You know this how?

@Tiny Red Ant #23

"However, the investigator is able to determine that there was no consent under the law the only conclusion that they can come to was the act was rape."

This is total psycho-babble and gibberish. In a rape case, the woman must make the claim that there was no consent. It's a subjective decision. An investigator cannot make the decision for the accuser. It stacks the deck against the accused by removing the actual accuser and replacing her with a police officer. I don't think I've ever heard of this before except in the upside down world of Swedish rape law.

It's done so that you can never have a woman accused of making a false rape claim because the accuser has been replaced by a police officer. This is wrong because some women do make up claims of rape. Trying to remove this as a possiblity shows how completely biased the system really is in Sweden and what a totally unfair situation Assange is in.

Once you again you fail to think things through.
23:17 September 8, 2012 by themoron
themoron says: The more I read the "posters" written here, the more I understand the ignorance of many. How in the hell can many of them write what they write and then, when confronted to one of the few thinking debaters, they simply deny what they said or implicated in their posts? Why don't they read the facts? How can someone say that the "Collateral Damage" video was edited? How can someone assure that a 46 minutes film produced with true facts is garbage? It looks that it does not matter if a page given to them is in blanco, they will put dirt on it. What a shame. I wonder if they are happy with the way they are. Their daily lives must be pathetic if they wake up figuring about the next lie they will think, say or write.

It really looks they are in the CIA's payroll, or in the SÄPO (Swedish "secret" police) one.

Timbenton51 is completely right when he writes:

"It's done so that you can never have a woman accused of making a false rape claim because the accuser has been replaced by a police officer.

#This is wrong because some women do make up claims of rape. Trying to remove this as a possiblity shows how completely biased the system really is in Sweden and what a totally unfair situation Assange is in." (#26)

Once you again you fail to think things through.
23:49 September 8, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Why don't you do research for once. The video was edited no matter how much you want to deny it.

There were on names or descriptions of items in the original video. Such information was selectively included to manipulate the low information viewers. Other that the title "Collateral Murder" there is no context added such as it was part of a larger mission.

A person does not have to make a claim of no consent. There are many people who don't even understand what consent is. Some believe that laying in the same bed after intercourse is consent. Put it more clearly, people don't always suspect that they might have been a victim of a crime until they talk to someone.

There is an example from The Australian of a man have a rape trail 50 years later. His defense claimed that it was not a crime when the act occurred. The courts rejected that argument.

In my country what Assange is accused of will be a crime. That is the same for Australia, and is the same for the UK. No amount of denying will change that fact.

So get out a do some research.
03:27 September 9, 2012 by timbenton51
@Tiny Red Ant #28

Once again, anybody can be ACCUSED of anything. I could accuse you of rape. Then I could run all around shouting, "Tiny Red Ant has been accused of rape!!" "Don't pay any attention to anything he says! He is an accused rapist!" It's meaningless.

Further, I disagree with you that what Assange is accused of amounts to rape. How can it be if both women say they were NOT raped? I don't know about your so called case from 50 years ago. Ultimately rape means that there was sex without consent. If the women believe they had sex with consent, they had sex with consent. To hold otherwise places every person having sex under legal jeopardy to be decided by the state.

If this is the case, then it is a highly undemocratic place indeed, and it is well that Julian Assange, or anyone else caught up in a heavy handed false rape charge, should be excused from answering to.

Fortunately, Ecuador has recgonized this and offered Julian Assange political refugee status. He deserves. The case against him is purely poitical. Even V Putin agrees.
07:05 September 9, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Accused? Bemusement or amusement; it is so hard to choose.

It was always believed that the distinction of "accused" in the contexts that it can be used was understood. However, it is not unique to limit the scope of the definition of a word, or out of context it was used.

There is curiosity if there is a school for creating distractions, such as distorting the meaning of words.

There is a lack of interest in the reasons as to why the distinction between the vernacular and legal "being accused" is being perverted.

It just does not change the fact that Julian Assange is accused of 4 crimes in Sweden. Those accusations are part of a criminal investigation under Swedish law by Swedish prosecutors. One of which falls under what is legally defined as rape in the UK.

Standing in court and say "I don't believe that is rape" after the accusations have been read is a sure way of getting convicted.

Remember that Assange has not been convicted, let a lone formally been charged. It is the prosecution that needs to prove their case, as it is with the millions of court cases argued every year.
15:37 September 9, 2012 by bcterry
@ hawkeye ajustarlia,

Your point on who is fighting for the western civilization and freedom for the free world is right on the money.

Well said.
18:06 September 9, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

WikiLeaks has released both the original 38 minutes video and a shorter version with an initial analysis. Subtitles have been added to both versions from the radio transmissions.

WikiLeaks obtained this video as well as supporting documents from a number of military whistleblowers. WikiLeaks goes to great lengths to verify the authenticity of the information it receives. We have analyzed the information about this incident from a variety of source material. We have spoken to witnesses and journalists directly involved in the incident.

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

themoron says:

A bit of a recap first.

"Anna Ardin and Sofia Wilén approached the Klara police station in Stockholm on the afternoon of Friday 20 August 2010 to ask questions of the police, purportedly about forcing someone to submit to STD/HIV tests.

"The policemen on duty rang up prosecutor on duty Maria Kjellstrand even before the formal interrogation had begun. Kjellstrand - working with no paperwork at all at this point - issued an 'APB' for Assange and had the police search the Stureplan district of Stockholm for Assange, ostensibly to bring him in for questioning (and a tour of Swedish isolation cells).

"The formal interrogation of Sofia Wilén was only concluded hours later and the interrogation of Anna Ardin didn't take place until the day after - by telephone.

"As seen from Anna Ardin's SMS history, Anna Ardin and Sofia Wilén made the whole thing up - and even decided to leak the story to notorious Swedish tabloid Expressen. The story reached Niklas Svensson and others at Expressen at 19:52.

"A colleague of Svensson's rang up Maria Kjellstrand to find out if the story was true - and Kjellstrand, violating the rules of her office, told the reporter that it "

http://radsoft.net/news/20101202,00.shtml

About Assange beeing afraid of a possible extradition to the US.

Some ot the posters say that his fear does not matter. That he has to go to Sweden to face charges, because there is no danger that he will be extradited.

Well. If I am afraid of flying, it is irrelevant for me that statistics show that flying is safer than driving. In other words, Assange is afraid of being extradited to the uSA, whether the US, UK or Sweden laws; TL experts or the mother of the chickens say the opposite.

Tiny: You keep on proving that you are tinier than before. What is your size now?
22:03 September 9, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Great analogy. Someone is afraid of flying. So, they decide not to take the train because there is a "statistical probability" that a plane might crash into it. That is the summary of Assange's fears.
08:23 September 10, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

Yes, it is a great analogy, whether you understand it or not. No you just show the true colours of your mind and sould. You just vanished.

You do not write about the video, you do not write about the "nice ladies" who were "raped, over and over again" by Assange; you do not write about your expertise in journalism (Randolph Hearst).

You just vanished.

You have no valid arguments against anything. Well, once in a million lines.

What are you doing amongst intelligentia? Proving that you are worthless? Common! Go to another thread and start teaching us how you do your researches.

You are so great, that you if someone gives you the Quoran, you will assure that according to your research, is a book written by Shakespeare.

Where are you now?...Oh! In the limbo.

P.S. Planes do not crash into trains. Tiny little ants, do. And they are more dangerous than a 747.

Who do you think you are to evaluate the measure of anybody's feelings? Your last line shows really the type of individual you are.
08:52 September 10, 2012 by timbenton51
@Tiny Red Ant #30

Using the courts to eliminate political enemies is an old trick. That is clearly what has happened in the Assange case. I think the allegations are a complete farce and an embarrassment to Sweden. Their government deserve to be exposed for the puppets to the US they are. Good of it.

The solution is simple: political refugee status. Ecuador has granted that. Eventually Assange will arrive to a place of safety. The comment from Putin shows that the jig is up for UK/Sweden. Rational third parties are not fooled by the rape stich-up against Assange.

UK/Sweden will eventually have to give up because disinterested world leaders know the whole thing is a fraud,. They will use this at the UN and in the press, and eventually UK/Sweden will lose so much credibility on international stage they will throw in the towel. Wait and see.
08:55 September 10, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Honestly, stop making things up. There are only 4 allegations. One is of one incidence which under law is considered rape. You have already be caught in a lie, so it is strange why you insist on propagating more.

Assange's rights are protected if an extradition warrant is issued for his arrest by the USA. That is by European, British, and Swedish laws.
13:16 September 10, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

Dear posters. The fear of ants can be a problem if you live in the country where there's plenty of ants that flourish, like the one where you know who was born.

The phobia is with most adults that don't like insects and the phobia is called myrmecophobia

As you know when you have the fear of ants, you will have the problem with all insects. To get over the fear it's a possibility that you might need to get through the fear by studying them. This means that you have to read carefully what a venomous insect writes, to understand that is always twisting the meanings of what you write and only acting as if it is the non plus ultra of journalism, research, psychiatry and neurology, logical thinking and the mother of the chickens.

So, dear colleagues: Don't fall into its poisonous tricks because it will be a never ending story.

This type of ant, will never recognize that it has been, is or might be wrong.

P.S. A very reliable source informed me just two hours ago, that Assange suffers from claustrophobia. Perhaps, and just perhaps, this might, I repeat, might, be the reason whay he fears ending some years of his life in a 4x4 meters cell in the land ot the never happens anything.
14:32 September 10, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Using the courts to silence political descent is more common in Russia, and in Ecuador under Correa's presidency as recent news event attest.

With political persecution there is a direct tangible relations, such a libel cases for harsh criticism of leadership, or impromptu protests against leadership.

However, is is more common to watch ones own political foes wobble in mistakes of their own creation.

The problem Assange finds himself is of his own creation. The only embarrassment is that for Assange, but his media allies are trying very hard to mediate that damage.

Putin's statements were made because his record has been recently criticized.

Right to asylum should only be granted on two principles. The first is genuine non-political prosecution. Second, is that you can seek asylum for violating another person rights.

It is the nation state's right to decide who to give asylum to. By not being diligent is not beneficial for the nation state's citizens. One poorly decided decision does not do that.

There is curiosity on how Ecuador can walk away while still looking good.

It has been two years, and the accusations against Assange have not diminished. At best Assange is the victim of an overly active imagination.
14:57 September 10, 2012 by themoron
bla, bla, bla

bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, blaaaaaa

bla, bla, bla,

bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.

bla, bla,

bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, blaaaa,

bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, blaaaaa.

With music of "Eine Kleine Nacht Musik"
03:58 September 11, 2012 by timbenton51
@Tiny Red Ant #36

I should stop "making things up"? Talk about the pot calling out the kettle.

"Assange's rights are protected if an extradition warrant is issued for his arrest by the USA. That is by European, British, and Swedish laws."

Some good that "protection" was for Ahmed Aziza and Muhammad al-Zery, two men legally residing in Sweden who were arrested by Swedish police (no warrants), rendered to Egypt and tortured for years, despite the fact it was a total violation of Swedish law and the Swedish constitution.

The authorities don't care about what the laws say unless it suits there purposes. If they want to arrest and torture somebody, they do. They don't care about "the law". In the case of Assange, the Swedish authorities want to apply these totally absurd and obscure laws to Assange in the most bizarre fact pattern I've ever seen. They justify by saying "Look here. This is against our law!!"

But when some serious issue arises, like legal residency and protection from being kidnapped as for Agiza and al-Zery, the "the law" is overlooked. Wonder why?
05:58 September 11, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

New inventions made by the very small red ant at #38:

"The problem Assange finds himself is of his own creation. The only embarrassment is that for Assange, but his media allies are trying very hard to mediate that damage."

Assange did not create anything. He was the target of two Swedish "ladies", a police woman, two feminist lawyers and a dubious prosecutor and he is he target of a country well known for his submission to the US..

"Putin's statements were made because his record has been recently criticized."

The ant knows Vladimir, so pretending to be Boris Sidis and Eric From togheter, penetrated in his mind to dig out the inner reason on why he (Putin) declared that the Assange's case was political. It would not surprise me if the every day smaller ant comes to the conclussion that Vladimir had problems with his father and hence he declared that the whole circus is political.

"Right to asylum should only be granted on two principles. The first is genuine non-political prosecution. Second, is that you can seek asylum for violating another person rights."

This is a beauty; a real Japanese pearl. If I violate another person's rights, I will seek asylum in any country, especially in Sweden. Yes, but of course. Especially in Sweden.

"There is curiosity on how Ecuador can walk away while still looking good."

One thing is that Hearst (the ant) is curious and another to say "there is curiosity on how...". very bad journalism. And Ecuador is more consistent in whatever they do, bad or good, than Sweden with its hypocrisy and arrogance. One thing is for sure: Ecuador is not a lackay from the US; that is for sure. Perhaps that is the reason why the look good.

"It has been two years, and the accusations against Assange have not diminished. At best Assange is the victim of an overly active imagination."

There is nothing of an overly active imagination in the whole case. The only thing the ant needs is to read properly the official papers from bottom till top, and nothing more. Assange is alive. Anna Ardin and Sofia Wilen are alive. Wikileaks is alive. Marianne Ny is alive. Claes Borgström is alive. Swedish and international media are alive. Hillary Clinton is alive. Manning is alive, but no one knows for how long. The interrogations are on paper. The "accusation" too. The arrest order also. And all the rest around the circus, is there. The only one who seems that is not alive is monsieur le pismire.

Did it hurt what timbenton51 wrote?

A reminder:

"But when some serious issue arises, like legal residency and protection from being kidnapped as for Agiza and al-Zery, the "the law" is overlooked. Wonder why?"

Take an aspirin.

So, the bla, bla, blaaa, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, blaaaaaaa, continues. What a shame. Poor Mozart!
15:03 September 11, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
The reality is Assange is accused of crimes that are defined in law in both the UK and Sweden. Under international law the UK is required to extradite Assange to Sweden, and will be arrested once he enters British territory. No matter what is written in support of Assange does not change those facts.
09:23 September 12, 2012 by themoron
themoron says: On 15:03 September 11, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant #42 wrote:

"The reality is Assange is accused of crimes that are defined in law in both the UK and Sweden. Under international law the UK is required to extradite Assange to Sweden, and will be arrested once he enters British territory. No matter what is written in support of Assange does not change those facts. "

The above is another of the now hundreds of Japanese pearls "written" and carefully "thought".

"Under international law the UK is required to extradite Assange to Sweden, and will be arrested once he enters British territory."

As everybody can see now, Sweden is now a British territory., unless he meant that Assange would be arrested once he leaves the Ecuadorian territory, represented by the Embassy of Ecuador. But, we are not in the threads to read what he "meant", but to read what he means. No comments, please. They would be embarrasing for a little, little tiny ant.
13:24 September 12, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
It was quite interesting to learn about Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties or "the Treaty of Treaties."

The Convention on Diplomatic Asylum is a unique treaty/convention as it only limited to the 20 Central-South American countries that are signatories.

Treaty of Treaties is the international law that governs the UK and Sweden's legal requirement as signatory to the European Arrest Warrant.

It seems that Correa was eager to grant Assange asylum without looking into the full legal ramifications. The temptation to pretend to be standing up to America seems to have been too great.

The are times that the UK would conceal Ecuador's lease on the embassy premises.

The threatening by the UK to close the Ecuadorian embassy with notice, brings an interesting question. What will happen if Ecuador has to renegotiate the use of the premises, or even a change in the Ecuadorian government? That will be some very stressful moments for Assange.
20:22 September 12, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

Little tiny orange ant: Stop it. You have intentionally made a mess of a very simple problem. Ecuador does not have to renegotiate the use of the premises, because Ecuador is the owner of the place where the embassy is located.

The whole thing brings us (me and at least 10 more to a very interesting question: When will the Tiny Ant start wearing a straightjacket? There is still a place for him at the Hospital for the people without brains, that is, the Brainless Hospital of Maidenhead. It is quite expensive, but it would be a good investment so we can skip his...

The Convention on Insane Asylum was made thinking about tiny red ants and their families.
23:45 September 12, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations,1961

Article 1(i)" The "premises of the mission" are the buildings or parts of buildings and the land ancillary thereto, irrespective of ownership, used for the purposes of the mission including the residence of the head of the mission."

Article 22-1."The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter them, except with the consent of the head of the mission."

Article 23-1."The sending State and the head of the mission shall be exempt from all national, regional or municipal dues and taxes in respect of the premises of the mission, whether owned or leased, other than such as represent payment for specific services rendered."

Article 42 "A diplomatic agent shall not in the receiving State practise for personal profit any professional or commercial activity."

"The case as extraterritoriality is not conferred upon an Embassy or Consulate." In simpler terms the Embassy is in London, but it is protected by Article 22 of the Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

From the Vienna Convention is it is clear that the embassy or consulate can be on leased. It is known that the Embassy of Ecuador, London is in an "a small red brick apartment" occupying several suites on the ground floor.

As with the embassy only on the ground floor Article 42 seems to suggest that Ecuador does not own the building, as it would be against the convention.

It is highly unlikely that Ecuador owns the the premises as there is absolutely nothing that supports that they do.

It seems that some have to learn the difference between speculation "What will happen if," and stating fallacies.

How many times does a person have to be wrong before they just drop a topic.
04:37 September 13, 2012 by bcterry
"When will the Tiny Ant start wearing a straightjacket? There is still a place for him at the Hospital for the people without brains, that is, the Brainless Hospital of Maidenhead. It is quite expensive, but it would be a good investment so we can skip his...

The Convention on Insane Asylum was made thinking about tiny red ants and their families. "

WOW, you must as well give it up and throw in the towel T.R.A., as it's impossible to match up against those "superior" debating skills. :)
07:29 September 13, 2012 by themoron
themoron says:

@bcterry: I thought you had given up! You must be a masochist on top of everything that you are already. I do not apologyse for this. You do not debate and the red ant does not either. You just get data here and there to show your "knowledge" or that you know how to surf, mainly in Wikipedia.

@tiny ant

"As with the embassy only on the ground floor Article 42 seems to suggest that Ecuador does not own the building, as it would be against the convention.

I"t is highly unlikely that Ecuador owns the the premises as there is absolutely nothing that supports that they do. "

As far as I know, your Vienna convention has not prevented countries like US to have their own premises, or have they?

Have you called the government of Ecuador or at least the ambassador of Ecuador in London to find out it they own the premises? If you have not, do not come with your Vienna convention. Ask. Ask. Ask.
09:26 September 13, 2012 by Tiny Red Ant
It seems that there is a comprehension problem. The entire convention must be considered when presenting an argument and the relevant articles should be referred.

Article 1(i) indicates that the premises can be owned or leased.

Missions are forbidden from make money from "professional or commercial activity(42)." Thus the entire building needs to be used solely for the mission. The Embassy of Ecuador, London only occupies several suites on the ground floor of what is described as an apartment complex. It can be concluded that Ecuador does not own the building, from the first fact. The second further casts doubt on that they own the premises. It still is possible that they own the premises, but that is highly unlikely.

As stated before the "premises of the mission shall be inviolable." That gives the sending state a level of protection from the interference of the receiving state relating to the premises.The entire conventions actually deal with this issue. So whether or not the premises are owned or leased is irrelevant to the missions.

Ask, what? Are you finally going to accept that once accusation against Assange is accused? Are you going to read any of the court ruling Assange-vs-Sweden or any relevant laws?

Come on you can be demanding a certain level of verification, without living up to that standard.

BCTerry it is "the nature of the beast," whose arguments coming from one premise, that makes it seem easy. However, researching is very important.
16:45 September 13, 2012 by bcterry
@bcterry: I thought you had given up! You must be a masochist on top of everything that you are already. I do not apologyse for this. You do not debate and the red ant does not either. You just get data here and there to show your "knowledge" or that you know how to surf, mainly in Wikipedia."

That makes all the "themoron say's" links and data null and void.
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