Published: 24 Jun 09 14:11 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/20250/20090624/
Women in Malmö have been given the right to bathe topless in the swimming pools of Sweden's third largest city.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
With international media swooping on the Stockholm riots from every angle, The Local's Oliver Gee explains why Stockholm is not burning, and how the story has been blown out of proportion. READ () »
After five nights of rioting throughout the outskirts of Stockholm, many in Sweden and elsewhere are trying to make sense of it all. The Local spoke to a mix of commentators and local politicians to get their views. READ () »
As white-collar union Saco slammed Sweden for not helping well-educated foreigners into the labour market, The Local spoke to researcher Josefin Edström about the disconnect between foreign professionals and Swedish employers. READ () »
The UK Foreign Office has issued a travel warning for Sweden after arsonists tore through several Stockholm suburbs, while Americans have been warned to stay out of the affected areas by their embassy. READ () »
With Swedish police set to call in reinforcements in an attempt to get the now five-day-old wave of arson and vandalism under control, Sweden's image abroad may have been tarnished. READ () »
For this week's secret location picture gallery quiz, we head to a city that's among the top 20 in terms of population size. Can you guess which one it is in nine clues? READ () »
Sweden's Princess Madeleine is "less nervous than she thought" about her impending walk down the aisle at Stockholm's Storkyrkan church to wed US financier Chris O'Neill. READ () »
Swedes are having less sex than ever before, a new survey has revealed, and their libidos appear to have waned too, prompting researchers to warn that "desire disorders" may be keeping Swedes from getting intimate. READ () »
More news from Germany at thelocal.de
More news from France at thelocal.fr
More news from Norway at thelocal.no
More news from Switzerland at thelocal.ch
Register now for:
> Free use of noticeboard
> Special discounts
> Weekly news roundup
> Unlimited use of discuss
"BANG!!!! BANG!!!! BANG!!! In the midst of the Stanley Cup’s Eastern Conference semifinals series, every Bostonian knows it is all about Bruins ice hockey. Oh right. I am in Sweden, home of the 2013 International Ice Hockey Federation GOLD Champions. And there is certainly no doubt ice hockey fever has taken over Sweden. A lot of Swedes,..." READ »
Your comments about this article:
The comments below have not been moderated in advance and are not produced by The Local unless clearly stated. Readers are responsible for the content of their own comments. Comments that breach our terms and conditions will be removed.
It will be funny to see these feminists now " Sexualized " in a totally different way... Although my feminists are dog ugly anyway..
DenMT
Problem though is that people take this freedom and equality thing too far. Women don't need to bare their breasts before we acknowledge them as equals, ..wether we like it or not, the genders will always have their different traits so people should just accept this and be comfortable in their bodies.
I am still happy though that these ladies are going topless and I look forward to the day when they can actually walk the streets topless.
The vast majority of women have no intention of going topless at a public swimming pool any more than male receptionists are going to turn up for work in skirts and heels. There are women in Iran and Saudi Arabia denied basic rights and liberties and these juvenile girls are making an major issue about something that is of zero interest to 99% of the female population! Pathetic. The local authorities should tell them to get lost.
Bisonex
I grew up in Sweden till the 80's it was never a problem either and was never viewed as "sexual" (like in the States), until immigrants from prudish countries came in and complained and in true Swedish fashion the country rolled over and didnt want to risk offending anyone so now all these cases are being scrutinized when it was never about sex & no ones business.
I reflect on thinking LOGIC "It's a question of equality. I think it's a problem that women are sexualized in this way. If women are forced to wear a top, shouldn't men also have to?"
Extending same logic women can/may demand someday "if man uses their penis, shouldn't women also do that too"- to uphold their equality???
What kind of equality we are talking here. Someone need to bring home the point that both men & women need to understand they should not & can not ask for equality in every sphere. Its not possible or feasible or desirable. Personal freedom ends when its affecting public. So long Malmö public does not have any prob, I do not see why all others need to be bothered.
"I crossed paths with an elderly women (sic) and am scarred for life..."
"Extending same logic women can/may demand someday "if man uses their penis, shouldn't women also do that too"- to uphold their equality???"
"...can't wait to see them floppy hairy tities on those oh so sexy Vagitarian's (sic). "
We are talking about the bodies of people. We are not talking about masturbation fantasies for the immature.
Didn't your mothers have breasts? Your sisters? Don't your wives and girlfriends? Do you walk around in a state of sexual excitement seeing their breasts, not all of which can be 'perfect' as defined by your fantasies...
The key word is people.
We are talking about Bara Bröst... more than 1/2 of the people of the world have more prominent breasts than the rest.... they are there for a number of reasons... your sexual pleasure is likely not on the list.
Get over it.
In a country where the term “våldtäkt” (rape) has the broadest definition of the populated world, it will be mandatory to include any man with the audacity to gaze at a woman’s bared breast for more than the briefest moment. Jail the bastards! It’s only right.
Well done to everyone involved
I'm only aware of Ak-Va-Kul near Kronprinsen ... which was closed for quite a while until re-opening relatively recently I think
There are great swimming pools in the prosperous surrounding kommuns that have sucked out the Swedish middle classes from Malmö ...
... but the pools are usually tucked away behind high schools etc and away from public transport links to Malmö in an elaborate attempt to discourage the teeming Malmö masses ;o) ;o)
Can someone explain why female nipples are so very offensive and male nipples aren't?
Again, nipples are not genitalia.
Titties of all shapes and sizes can be seen freely swinging about in all directions, yet nobody bats an eyelid.
However with genitalia it is usually a different ball-game so to speak and they are mostly covered up possibly for a variety of reasons from protection against thorns and bites,possibility of sunburn?,to having a small willy{only joking},or because its considered the correct thing to do?
The human body is nothing to be ashamed of. I have had comments from muslim men about my breasts and to be blunt they know what they can go do with themselves.
The prudish nonsense about wearing clothes while bathing is exactly that, prudish nonsense. I personally swim a lot faster when naked anyway.
I know that American and muslim people will find excuses to be upset about this, but if they are, they should leave and not come back. We are in Europe, not Bagdad or Washington DC.
The human body is beautiful, natural and should be celebrated, not treated as some sort of socially constructed evil.
I don't, however, think that this change is due to immigrants moving in, but rather all this interest in big fake breasts in the 90's. This sexualised breasts more in Sweden and we als saw the intrduction f the push up bra. Remember the ads frm HM with Anna-Nicole? It was all about sexy bras with push ups and big breasts in all the mags. I remember before like 89 when all you bought as a teenage girl was a "BH-topp" that didn't have any push up effect at all. Girls wore t-shirts without bras even. Now it's ike illegal to show any nipples through your clothes so you can even buy nipple covers. I think all this is actually not immigrants but rather Americanization, "fashion" and whatever else that decade brought.
Thank God for the reaction though.
Besides, someone might force me to cover up MY trainwreck of a body.
So I learn to scope the hotties and tune out the wrinklies.
David, we're talking about swimming here, not going to work, but then you are so repressed. What are you? British?
I'm half Eskimo and half goat
And if they don't like it, go to whichever islamic nation you are from where it is illegal.
The Townhall rules allows naked wandering at the seaside but also in the streets. Few people use their right, sometimes it makes funny situations, sometimes embarrassing.
At Barcelona's beach people dress as they like, there are two nudist areas.
Nobody will die for some exposed pieces of meat ! Come on, Sweden, take it easy, at the very end tits become only breasts !
*no offence intended to 80 year olds!*
This is a non-issue since strict muslims wouldn't attend a pool anyway (where members of the opposite sex can be found)...
Transition back is some what complex though correct!
I have been in Sweden on and off for a few years and I remember it being the norm for topless bathers and unheard for small children to wear swim clothes. I suspect people changed their minds for three reasons. Sexualisation of nudity, increase of other foreign nationales and fear of skin cancer.
However, I am sure we are about talking about handful of people that will choose to go topless. Let's be thankful we all live in a country that has such pressing issues like this in its mainline news
Sorry, if I don't say it, I explode
It is sad that in the 21st century so many people can't see a naked people of the opposite sex without subconsciously thinking that they will get laid.
*smarties!*
[attachment=430:Natalie_...i_0308_7.jpg]
Lets assume then,that it's an isolated empty stretch of palm lined white sandy beach!
*still smarties?* :nudge:
The authorities should have told these silly little girls to go away and grow up. There are so many worthy things to campaign about in this world and to waste their own time, and the time of others, on such a ridiculous issue is beyond contempt.
And nudist resorts are very popular in the US. I know as I own the Terra Cotta Inn, Palm Springs, CA. http://sunnyfun.com We have the 2nd highest occupancy rate of ALL hotels in Palm Springs.
Fashions change. In the late 1800's women wore full dresses from their ankles, to their wrists, to their necks and had little house carts go into the ocean or lake so they could go "swimming."
In the early 1900's if a woman showed a bare ankle she was considered immoral.
By the 1920's ankles were OK, bare calves were immoral.
Just like the world did not come to an end when bare ankles were first shown in the 1900's, the world will not end with topless swimming.
People should grow up. Breasts are no more sexual now than ankles were at the turn of the century. Do these moralists want woman to dress like Muslim? We"re in the year 2009 not 1909.
Fine. Let nudists have their places, but keep them isolated from places used by decent people.
Untrue. The exposure of ankles in public was considered taboo among the two higher socio-economic groups in western Europe, but they were never considered to be intimate in the way breasts are. Ankles did not feature in early pornography, but breasts did.
Besides, I live in 2009 and I am not used to seeing women walking around with their breasts exposed and I don't want to get used to it, thanks.
I don't mind nudists having their colonies, but I resent them interfering in the regulation of general public areas. If you want to get nude (or topless), stay on your own patch.
Bisonex
it's your own personal issue. that's ok, but we don't need your personal issue to motivate the rest of ours. argument pretty weak i'm afraid.
My view is based upon what I, and my family, find offensive. Anything that anyone finds offensive is subjective - the very act of being offended is subjective, as it is culturally and emotionally based, and founded on personal values rather than cold logic. As a citizen and taxpayer in a democracy, I am not merely permitted to hold and express my views, I am encouraged to do so.
In terms of strict logic, wearing any swimwear is unnecessary, but we are socialised and acculturated beings, not machines, and nudity has the potential to offend and destroy the enjoyment of others. The purpose of swimming baths is to provide pleasure and they should be regulated to maximise the comfort of their patrons. If a rule is introduced which threatens to deprive me of the pleasure of using a public facility, I will speak out.
I strongly suspect these silly girls will be largely ignored and topless bathing in public pools is not something the vast majority of women will want to do, so their "victory" is largely academic.
Bisonex
i reacted because your "opinion" came across less as an opinion and more as a directive served up with indignation. (and i'm not suggesting you meant it that way)
but since you really didn't give anything more than "that's what i'm used to" as foundation to support your "opinion" i guess it's not really debate.
any thing along the lines of debate on this topic?
If I were the only person on the planet who found this objectionable, then you would have a point. My reaction would be aberrant, and it would be for me to deal with. But it's not just me who objects to this. Female breasts have long been regarded as intimate parts of their anatomy and deeply sexual, and we have a long-standing taboo of exposing such parts in public. This taboo is so ingrained into us that we are actually offended when people violate it.
Cultural taboos are part of our value system, and they permeate through our society and through every individual's very essense. Breaching these causes a strong, negative reaction, even though they do not cause actual physical harm, inconvenience or financial loss. If you doubt that, consider the consequences of walking the streets naked, or having sex in a busy part of a public park.
Of course times change and, with them, taboos are abandoned and new taboos arise. But that does not mean that all existing taboos, including those which are challenged by particular groups, are thereafter void. Allowing female toplessness is a plus for the tiny proportion of people who want to do it, but a big minus for the more substantial number who find it unacceptable. While I may not have a right to dictate policy based on my hatred of nudity, I am entitled to express my views and to point out that there are others who also find it objectionable in certain circumstances. Before making changes such as allowing topless women in public swimming pools, the relevant authorities should have consulted the public for their views, published the results of those consultations and have regard to the findings.
Bisonex
dat you not alone iz not enuff to support your position (though you can still have it as a non-aberrant viewpoint.)
points of order
1. how long is long-standing ?--since puritanical times isn't really all that long ago in the history of humans.
2. do babies get off while suckling at the breast. and do they know they're messing with some future oedipal complexes? kind of sick to feed a child on a sex toy, kind of like a baby's bottle in the form of a penis eh? milk-ejaculating dildos are really sick if you ask me cuz that's kinda what a breast must be with that long-standing, deeply-sexual, taboo-ingrained, offensive mammary gland.
who are you modifying with your use of the collective 1st person? you aren't suggesting this applies to swedes and swedish culture and are naively presuming "your" values are "swedish" values (or is this a "i pay swedish tax so my imported values merge into the swedish "our/we" pronouns?)"
happens without any harm here in sweden, albeit rarely, always without financial loss.
nope, but thems peoples gotta get over it.
who in sweden find it objectionable? the 42 who signed the anti-boobie petittion(sic)?
HATRED ???
*SHOCK*
man you live in the wrong country (if you're here in sweden that is)
you go girlfriend!
damn straight. be sure to write your local representative and get that off your chest and into the hands of the elected policy makers (you know, the ones who were elected by the society to make these decisions, thus having the mandate.)
He hates nudity. I'm shocked! How does he procreate? He doesn't?
Hurrah!
I’m not “dictating” anything. I am expressing an opinion as to what the rules of the society I live in should be. Breastfeeding in public is a concession to what is otherwise antisocial behaviour, i.e. a woman exposing her breasts in public.
I have three children. I have some shocking news for you – you don’t need to be completely nude or flashing off your intimate parts to others to procreate.
007
Public places belong to all of us and should be regulated to maximize the comfort of as many people as possible. That’s why you are not allowed to have sex openly in public, or shout obscene language and so on. I’m afraid if you can’t get your head around that proposition, then I really can’t help you.
Long enough to be an established facet of our present culture. Your other question is puerile and not worthy of a response.
Really? What do you think would happen if a woman walked topless through a busy shopping mall? Do you think people would just ignore it? What if a teacher at a primary school showed her bare breasts to the children in her class (even if she had a good reason)? I have been to plenty of beaches in Sweden and Denmark and yes, you do see about 20% of women going topless. The fact is that, as the Danish paper Politiken recognised about 5-years ago, beach topless is becoming less common.
Nope, like everyone else, I have a say in which social changes I want and which ones I don’t want. I prefer the status quo when it comes to female toplessness.
42 is a small number, but how many members of this odious pressure group live in Malmo? I would wager far fewer than 42. A petition indicates the existence of a feeling among some people, but I reckon far more people find the idea objectionable than actually want to practise it, and only a minute proportion of those would even have been aware of this petition.
Oh, you can rest assured that I do that.
Bisonex
you can shout obscene language in public in sweden. people say , , ass all the time. helvete and djävul might raise some eyebrows. and i don't think public sex is criminalized either (anyone know?)
our swedish culture?
people would gawk and stare
not much if she had a good reason -though i'm hardpressed to find a good reason, but as long as it's deemed a good reason no one in "our" culture would have an issue with that.
uh huh.
great. then provided about 20% of the women go topless at the pool you should be right pleased.
not even me. what petittion (sic)?
so you admit that you would find a baby breast feeding as a sexual act. that's sick
According my my copy of The Growth of Scandinavian Law by Orfield and Boyer, any behaviour which "disturbs public order or occasions general offence" is contrary to law and not protected free speech as defined by your Constitution.
Most certainly. It has been my experience that Sweden is really a conservative country which wears a mask of great liberalism. Try walking naked through the centre of a major Swedish city and I'm pretty sure you'll find yourself at odds with the law.
Bisonex
Rules in society change. Back in the 1950's in teh US black citizens could only ride in the back of buses in teh South in the US. Many Southerners found that it was offensive for them to have equal rights. US courts had to change that.
Muslims find it offensive if a woman bares any part of her skin except her eyes and hands. Should we go by their rules?
I find it funny that "decent people" do not go to nude beaches or nudist resorts.
Even here in the US, the most popular beach in Miami is the nude beach, Haulover Beach.
Get with the times.
Yes, but they should change to reflect the will of the people who have to comply with them and live with the results of them. We are entitled to be selective in which changes we adopt and which we reject.
I fail to see the relevance of that. Black people were generally treated not just as being different, but as inferior: that was unjust, and virtually every black person regarded it as unjust. The buses episode was a symptom of a far wider problem, and it was that which had to be addressed.
Women are not treated as "inferior" to men because they can not go topless any more than a male receptionist is treated as "inferior" because he can't wear a skirt and heels for work, whereas the female has the option to wear pants.
No, because Muslims comprise 1. mainly immigrants to the country who are expected to conform to the existing norms and culture of the country they have chosen to live in, and 2. they comprise only a tiny minority. Nevertheless, their sensibilities should certainly be considered before changing any rules, just as everyone else's should.
Nusists comprise less than 5% of the population of most western nations, and that percentage has not increased in recent years. In fact, it is declining in many countries:
http://www.balkantravellers.com/en/read/article/1273
19 out of every 20 people are not nudists: most people choose not to go nude or to be among nudes. So let's stay segregated - you can have your special beaches and leave the remainder for the rest of us. I promise to stay away from your beaches completely, and i would ask you to return the favour - unless you are wearing swimwear.
Bisonex