Stockholm square closed after clashes

Mind you - the anti-Iranian regime demonstrators ARE mostly Iranians. Just Iranians with brains. However, they are not even pro-Israeli.

The opposing demonstration does not support the Iranian regime aloud, oh, no! They just chose Israel as an excuse to clash with the Iranian diaspora. Usual Soviet/Muslim/authoritarian tactics - if you are not with us, you support the enemy, you are a spy, you are bought by the enemy. All the regimes that killed thousands of their own employ that tactic.

If I were the SAPO I would take pictures of all the "pro-Iranian" demonstrators. I am sure that there are plenty of "Cultural consultants at the Iranian embassy in Stockholm" standing there.. doing nothing special...just came to support of course...

On one side you have an anti-Iranian regime demonstrators, on the other an anti-Israel demonstration. A huge difference: demonstrators against a regime or against a country. Not at all the same thing.

A feeling that I have heard this before 'if you are not with us, you support the enemy' out of a president's mouth.

Regime / country what difference does it make, if its existance is motivated by anything other than for it's own people ?

Israel vs. Iran.

In one country, all minorities are represented in Parliament, whose members often express views completely contradicting the government. In the other country, the entire parliament always utters the same tune, internationally (this is known as fascism).

In one country, presenting candidacy is open to all citizens of all denominations. In the other country, it is forbidden by law to be a president if you are not a Shiite Muslim.

In one country, elections are transparent and the results are always respected. In the other country, when the results are not according to the government's liking, it simply fakes them.

In one country, the media, as well all people have a complete freedom of speech, including denouncing the state, the army and the government. In the other country, newspapers protesting the government are shut down, as are people demonstrating election results… Only this meaning of "shut down" is more literal.

One country is quite liberal, has pride parades, and freedom to be with anyone you want. The other country, stones to death women for meeting men outside marriage, and denies it has any gay people (which is true - all of them are being hanged).

One country wants its neighbors to leave it alone (and has nukes for deterrence purpose). The other country repeatedly calls for the destruction of the first country, and works incessantly to have nukes for achieving this destructive purpose.

One country is held accountable by the world, when in the course of defending herself, its army accidentally harms civilians. The other country is not held responsible even when it intentionally kills ITS OWN civilians.

One country was built as a direct result of the Holocaust. The other country denies the Holocaust ever happened, in an effort to justify its call for destruction of the first country.

One country is resource-poor. The other country has plenty of oil and therefore all of Europe sucks up to it.

I was just reading it as 'Iran vs Israel'

And I din't see a difference ;-)

@Hagrid

U have made my day!

well said Hagrid !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and they have a defence force not a attack force.

and well it was a resource poor country till the discovery of the gas field off the coast recently.and it seems to get bigger every couple of weeks.

self sufficent soon i hear

I take it the anti-Israel demonstration was a covert Swedish government sponsored event ???

Well said Hagrid... you made the right distinction

Hagrid It was beautiful!!!

Stop equating Israel with Jews, if anyone is against Israel's actions (settlements) that does not automatically make them anti-Semitic. Although there are many who hate Israel because it is a Jewish state, there are much more people who hate it because of the area where it was created.

Both countries are not held accountable (Israel because of its close ties with USA, Iran because of its resources), they do what they can and world leaders only give statements. If Israel was held accountable then there should have been some penalties when it refused to stop settlement growth (a demand which almost whole world (even USA) supports).

@Hagrid

can you mention who said that they want to nuke (not dismantle) Israel.

@Hagrid

As an anti-Iranian government Iranian, what you said is utter rubbish. Iranian government and Israeli goverment split in hairs.

Thank you for that post Hagrid. There is life on this planet

Hagrid and all your supporters here! u r full of hate. and u miss many things, it seems that u want to whitewash the terrorist activity of the illegal state of 'israel'

1-u said:

''One country was built as a direct result of the Holocaust. The other country denies the Holocaust ever happened, in an effort to justify its call for destruction of the first country.''.

ok thank u for saying that. the israeli creation was a result of the holocaust. the satet was built on ther people's land. the country was created at the expense of palestinians. when israel was created, it destroyed 500 villages and killed so many people and it is still doing this on daily basis. on the other hand, iran was not created at others' expense.

2-u said:

''One country wants its neighbours to leave it alone (and has nukes for deterrence purpose). The other country repeatedly calls for the destruction of the first country, and works incessantly to have nukes for achieving this destructive purpose''.

israel is occupying palestine, as u know. and it occupies part of syria and southern lebanon. it is israel which is occupying the arabs' land, not the vice-versa. israel on daily basis, bring jews from europe and expel palestinians, so do u want palestinians and arabs to accept this?

so should the arab states accept this and let israel eats more land. no, palestinians, and arab states have a right to resist israel in order to liberate its countries. u want palestinians to live under occupation and u want israel to steal their lands and their houses and u want palestinians to accept this peacefully!!! should i cry or laugh?

3-u said in ur comments that israel is liberal and ensure freedom of expression and modern and so on. fine: u forgot to mention that israel is an occupational force, kills children and demolish houses and commit massacres and crime and an apartheid state.........

For those who liked Higrid's comment. This is truly against facts and a bunch of lies.

1) In Iran, Jews and Christians have guaranteed Parliaminatry member.

2)In Israeli, Arabs cann't have important positions. Recently there was plan that all Arab citizens had to oath for Israel.

3)In Israel Arab goe to different school.

4) That country that has Nuke for deterrence only, attack its neigbour every other year. The other one hasn't attacked any other country for two centuries!!

5) As for freedom of express, recent Aftonbladet's artcle explains it!!! They can't even tolerate other countrie's media!!

6) Isn't it funny? A country is created because of Holocaus with expense of those who had nothing with Holocaust?!!

The fact is Israeli government and Iranian government are very violent and crueld with different motivation. For Iranian government motivation is ruling over Iran and dictatorship, for Israeli government motivation is facist-style cleanse of Arabs

FINALLY AS AN IRANIAN I SHOULD EXPRESS MY DEEP REGRET TO SWEDES WHO SUFFERED FROM THIS MISERY THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM!!

i dont understand Hagrid's points. israel has alwyas proved themselves as agressors. look what they have done to palestine and the palestinians!

so i can fully understand the iranians wanting nuclear weapons as a deterrent! why can isael have them and not iran?

the media war on iran is sickening. it is like what we had with iraq, before going to war with them. i sure hope they don't fool the people into accepting another illegal war on innocent muslim land.

now, there's no doubt that Iranian government is not a liberal one but then Israeli government is not either. HAGRID ,i'm guessing you watch TV way too often !

But then i don't get it! why was the clash between these two groups? each of them was against a different country, couldn't they demonstrate like civilized people?!

@ Leprechaun:

Your point about Israel being a Western democracy and therefore held accountable to stricter scrutiny, is granted. However you ignore the important fact that Israel's neighbors are not Finland, Denmark and Norway. When your neighbors are the Hamas who lob missiles at you daily, Hizbullah in Lebanon as well as Syria, Jordan and Egypt, then things are that much more complicated. Furthermore, it is not unlike 'enlightened' Western democracies to bestow carnage on weaker countries. Merely a week ago, NATO killed about 100 innocent people in Afghanistan, and has anybody said a word? ingalunda!... The same happened during the Balkan war in Serbia. And when the US routinely carpetbombs Afghanistan and Iraq we hardly ever hear about it either. So, holding Israel to a higher standard than other Western counties, is a double-standard.

@ someoneonthenet:

nowhere in my post have I equated anti-Israelism with antisemitism, though often the two are indeed interconnected, though this is a different discussion altogether.

"can you mention who said that they want to nuke (not dismantle) Israel"?

- As if they would actually SAY it?? What are they stupid?

@Iraniboy

"That country that has Nuke for deterrence only, attack its neigbour every other year."

- That is what Swedish media makes you think. Yet it is actually Hamas and Hizbullah which always provoke and initiate attacks on Israel, which in turn answers them.

"The other one hasn't attacked any other country for two centuries!!"

- What do you call the active support of Hizbullah, and the bombing of Israel ambassad in Buenos Aires? What do you call the 8-year war with Iraq?

"In Iran, Jews and Christians have guaranteed Parliaminatry member."

- Who are terrified to speak anything contradictory to the government, certainly not to support Israel, whereas Arab members of Israeli Parliament openly support the Palestinians and Hizbullah.

"recent Aftonbladet's artcle explains it!!! They can't even tolerate other countrie's media!!"

- If a total fabricated lie would be published about somebody, with the sole intention of inciting hatred - then it is totally understandable to be upset about it and ask it to be condemned. Freedom of speech is not freedom to incite. If you have no proof of your accusations, you cannot accuse.

Actually, Israel was not created as some form of reparation for the Holocaust though many people believe that. Jewish people began moving back to what was Palestine beginning around the 12th century. Admittedly, many Jews moved back to Israel after World War II and that led to the Jewish state there. What really happened was that wealthy Palestinian land owners sold so much land to the wealthy Jews that were moving there that eventually a plurality of the citizens were Jewish, and then a majority were. The UN created a plan to divide the land into two countries: one Jewish and one Arab, the Jews accepted by the Arabs rejected it. So the Jews declared independence, were attacked by all the Muslim countries surrounding them and kicked the crap out of everyone else. The Jews weren't GIVEN the country, they had to fight for it. But frankly, the Palestinians were the first and I don't see why they can't just agree to create a government with representation of Jews and Palestinians to rule the whole place.

Britain ruled Palestine during 1st half of 20th century, during that time mass immigration of Jews occurred. Before that Jews were very small minority, much smaller than even Christians. After WW2 immigration from Europe to Palestine increased much more, encouraged by Britain and USA. When the land was divided by UN, Israel (very small minority were born in this area, most were immigrants) got much better deal than Palestinians (who had been living there for many generations). Since then Israel has occupied a lot more land (that was given to Palestinian by UN), and it is highly unlikely that a viable Palestinian state can be created in future.

Single country with a secular government is the ideal solution but religious nuts on both sides won't accept that, they want the whole area.

@Hagrid

It is all about power, Israel isn't much worse than most Western countries, it is just unlucky where its located (many western countries might do what Israel is doing if they face same situation). e.g. 100s of innocent Afghans/Iraqis dieing is acceptable to USA in its attempt to prevent future loss of few American lives. I find it ironic that war on terrorism has cost much more deaths (and provided false comfort to some) than terrorism could have caused and it has not achieved anything.

@Hagrid...your analysis is amazing. It's a shame that this clash has happened Sweden.

someoneonthenet...as an American; I agree with you, in my opinion the war on terror is a war that can never be won because the objective and "the enemy" is not tangible. A government can't pinpoint terrorism and fight it because there is not a concrete way to define it and identify it.

Will this never end? I wish some other country could do something, that if stretched to the very limit of paranoia and political victimization, the Israelis can scream antisemitism about, so they'd forget about us.

So many of you try to re-write the history.

I ignore the obvious lonatics, but @someoneonthenet-

You say that Britain and US were encouraging Jews to come to Israel after WWII. That is a lie. Britain was preventing it with full military force. Many Jews were detained in camps in Cypros.

And to all the loons that say that Israel sits on occupied land- there was never a country called Palestain. Dont confuse it with the name of the region. According to international law, Israel in the lines of 1967 does not sit on occupied land.

Jewish arrival was the FIRST peaceful one in centuries. All the rights were given immediately to the local arabs in 1948. At that year, Muslim countries started to throw out 1 million Jews. Allowing to take a suitcase only. In addition 7 countries attacked Israel.

Iraniboy - let us calmly compare the losses of Palestinians and the losses of Irani/Iraqi kurds from Iran? Eh? No precision bombing there, eh? All bombing is very imprecise. The biggest nation in the world without a country... And your arguments were sliced to pieces already, so there is no use to repeat. Except that few Israeli parliamentarians visited Hezbollah and Asad openly and ARE still in Parliament. Whereas I would like to see the reverse happen. How many Jewish parliamentarians in Iran may I ask?

But in general the argument is idiotic. "You do not support iranian govt? You support Israel then. You demonstrate against chaos in Somalia? You love Israel. You do not like 2 million dead in Darfur? You are Israeli! You dislike hanging of gays, stoning of women, burning minorities alive in Pakistan? You must be an employee of Netaniyahu!" Not tired? Perhaps some effort of finding other arguments is befitting?

Just to add to the above comments, It si the Palestinians who are made up of other Arab countries and who emigrated to Israel before the early 20th Century. They have no seperate dialect from Jordon or Egypt, No seperate customs, even Yasser Arafat was born in Egypt(look it up). And for any Christians out there, Jesus and the 12 deciples were Jewish, so by denying the Jewish history to the land of Israel, you deny your own religion.

March 31, 1977 Dutch newspaper Trouw interview with PLO exec committe member Zahir Muhsein: "The 'Palestinian people' does not exist. The creation of a 'Palestinian' state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab entity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, 'Palestinians,' Syrians and Lebanese. Only for tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a 'Palestinian people' since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism." The term 'Palestinian' was first used in Western press in 1967 by an Arab journalist and Article 11 of Muslim Brotherhood Project Report states that the way to unify umma (Moslem community) worldwide is to portray 'palestine' as a political cause in order to carry on war against Jews (and eventually, all Westerners) without incurring charge of anti-semitism.Article 7 of Hamas Constitution quotes directly from Koran verse calling for genocide against the Jews.

Well written Iraniboy.

A good exposé of the lies and smokescreen from the 'whatever-it-takes', 'Jewish-state of-Israel-at-any-price' brigade.

Hagrid? Have you been smoking something?? :-o

"in the course of defending herself, its army ACCIDENTALLY harms civilians." That has to be the worst case of self-delusion and downright immoral denial that I have read in a long time. Shame on you.

" One country is resource-poor. The other country has plenty of oil and therefore all of Europe sucks up to it. "

... This was the cause and the rest are effects. The whole world is backing Islamic regime to get a share of cheap oil and demonstrates a humanistic show on the media in parallel. That's why they are still there.

It looks like it perhaps might be a good idea if we were taught something about the Middle East in history classes at school. ESPECIALLY, it would seem, in Israel and America. So much misinformation here.

"The Jews weren't GIVEN the country they had to fight for it" writes scruff33007

What????

So invaading and fighting to steal someone elses land is OK then,or...?

What was the Balfour Declaration all about then?

Or UN Resolution 181?

As for: "…UN created a plan to divide the land into two countries: … the Jews accepted … the Arabs rejected it…."

Actually the Peel Commission, recommending the partition of Palestine into two regions for Jews and Arabs, was rejected as unworkable by the British Parliament NOT by the Arabs.

In 1947, UNSCOP recommended again a partition in Palestine, a suggestion ratified by the UN General Assembly on November 29, 1947. Concerned that partition would severely damage Anglo-Arab/Muslim relations, BRITAIN refused to cooperate with the UN, denying the UN access to Palestine during the interim period.

So… The UN Resolution 181 GAVE Palestinian land to European jews for a jewish state. Though IT CAN be argued they did so after Jewish 'terrorism' against the British was successful in influencing decisions.

But just for an accurate perspective of the legality of Israel's right to the land based on this UN resolution, here's a list of elements of Resolution 181 which have NEVER been accepted by Israel:

1. The creation of a Palestinian State, whose boundaries are specified.

2. The designation of Jerusalem as an International zone.

3. The adoption of a constitution for the Jewish State, which the State of Israel does not have till today. 4. "No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in a Jewish State should be allowed except for public purposes".

5. Persons residing in Palestine shall "become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights."

6. Jaffa should be an Arab Enclave in the Jewish State.

Two stupid aggressive right-wing arrogant pseudo-religious countries that the world would be better off without.

i think all of you here know about the history but some of you try to misrepresent it.

1-those who say there was no palestinian state. well, there were no arab states. the arab states were part of the ottoman empire. they were united.so it is not important whether there was no palestinian state or not. there was no jordan state. jordan was part of the big othoman empire. does this mean that the jews or Chinese have a right to expel jordanian people and take thier land because there was no jordan state?

2-jews came from europe and other countries. the are not one nation. they are different nations. they are blond, dark skins, white ...etc. they have different languages. so the issue is very known and it is easy to understand. what jews have in palestine? all the historical places are arabic. the old towns which have been built since hundreds years are arabic. the Acre wall is a witness for the deep roots palestinians have in palestine. Napelon 's camping failed in the middle east because of the resistance of the arab palestinains. jews at that time were scattered in europe.

4-those who try to go back 3 thousands years. i know this is not sensible way of thinking because if we wanna go back to 2 or 3 thousands years then SPAIN will be for ARABS because they ruled over the country for 900 years and built great civilizations there. nevertheless, i accept to go back to the history. let us go back to the history , i accept that:

a-in the bible account, jews came from egypt and they found palestinians there and they fought with them and they managed eventually to defeat palestinians. (so this proves that palestinians were before in Palestine)

@ mysticbumwipe

In light of your attempt to present the founders of Israel as European conquers,

How do you explain the following:

1.About half of the Jewish population in Israel originates from Arab countries.

2.Before the establishment of Israel, Arabs have committed ethnic cleansing of Jews from areas in their control, such as Hebron.

3.Most of the land in Israeli hands before 1948 has been bought rightfully form its owners or given rights to by the Turkish/British administration.

4.The Jews that arrived to Israel prior to 1948, came as ideological workers, they were definitely not equipped to 'steal land' by force as you describe. Most of them came as poor refugees, escaping Europe or Arab countries.

Seems like intellect and hatered grow together... Some times seems as if people from different foreign ministeries sit keeping an eye on these forums and put all their loyalties and energies doing their duty posting their coments. I wish world were a country with all these countries as districts.. All people belonging to one country WORLD and one nationality HUMANS...

I am a Jew. I do not believe that all of the criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. I happen to believe, as a Jew, that Israel commits war crimes. I believe it is an aggressor. On the other hand, If I were to wear my skull cap, while walking in Malmö, I do not think I will be welcomed. I do not think, the Arab and Muslim youth, will distinguish between me as a Jew who supports them, and me as a Jew who "supports" Israel. THIS is why the Jews over react. Because on the Internet, you can say what you want. You can say, well I don't hate Jews, just Israel. If this was in person, I'm going to have to end up fighting someone on the street. This is why I over react. This is what you must understand. I am going to be 18 years old, and I hopefully have a long life ahead. One day, I hope to walk into a falafel or kebab store, in Malmö, or even the West Bank, where my paternal granfather is from, with a Muslim friend, while wearing a skull cap, and not have to worry about my walk home.

In regards to the Iranian situation. Iran commits terrible atrocities against the Kurds. All critiques of Israel are hypocritical, which defeats the point of criticizing Israel for war crimes, because these people, too cannot speak. Turkey, Syria, and Iran, all commit atrocities against the Kurds and their own people. 15 million+ Kurds are living in Nazi-esque oppression. Turkey still will not accept the Armenian Genocide. Sadly, we must come to realize the fact that the world isn't perfect. I hope freedom will come to Iran soon, as the Iranian people deserve it. The one thing I will give credit for to Israel, is that some of their soldiers do eventually come out, and admit to war crimes. Although, sadly, its too late to make a difference, as these crimes have been committed. All I can say is, I hope all you Muslims had a Happy Eid, and I hope that all you Jews had Good New Year Celebration. May peace come upon us, in our lifetimes. End the Hate.

Saalam and Shalom,

Maksim

boby, i will explain to you:

1-yes it is true half of the israeli jews are arab jews immigrants, so they are not palestinians. They are illegally occupying the land. U said it by urself, the israelis come from different countries. It is an artificial state, was created by gathering jews from different countries in order to create a state for them on the land of palestine.

2-go and read the history and read the English and UN documentaries. Yes it is true arab attacked some jews community in Palestine but u r actually here giving half of the truth. Completer it. Okey let me complete it: the attack was a resistance against the first the jewish migration to palestine and stealing the arab land. Second, jews forcibly conquered many palestinian lands and attacked arab populations, and even english army in palestine. Example of these attacks: king david hotel bombing, assassinating the UN delegate, Jaffa attacks. So palestinians were defending their country from the jews colonization.

To read more about this, go and visit the link about the palestinian problem in the united nation web site: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

3-if as what u claim most of the land were bought from palestinians before 1948, then how can u explain that, the palestinians were expelled out of their homes after the israeli creation by the israeli army? If palestinians sold their land, then why they were still living in it when israel was created , and if the land was sold, then why israel committed so many massacres to expel them after the israeli creation on palestine. Again visit the united nation web site to know how much is the percentage of the land which was owned by jews when israel was created (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html) . yes it is true like what u said that the biritsh authority gave many lands to the jews people but hey, this is illegal. Britin was an occupational force on palestine, and it has no right to give parts of palestine to the jews without taking a permission from palestinians. So giving the land by the british is illegal from the international law's perspective.

4-do not conceal facts. The Jewish immigration to palestine was planned in order to create a home land for the jews people there. Let me remind u: it was decided in the second zionist congress that it seeks to create a jewish state in palestine through massive jews immigrations from europe. Let me also remind u with balfor declaration in which britin in 1917 promised the jewsih leaders in britin to create a country for the jews people in palestine.

Immigrants from middle east leave your problems behind you (in the ME)! Sergels torg is not Palestine nor Israel or Iran. You came in Europe then serve the host countries that gave You a chance to start a new life.

Totyis I agree with your point of view :)

First: The Local is always allowing racist crap to be published. I wrote the editor about this but he doesn't care. O.K., e.g. comments about Arabs and immigrants as if they were uniform.

Second: This blow up reminds me of the one about the leftist brigade that got attacked by some immigrants. What I mean is that a part of the Swedish left seems to have been hired by the Swedish government, or the American one, or some other strange entity to play the part of a left, e.g. like in a movie.

This is a very bad movie, but somone is entertained by it.

I suggest all this is caused by a lack of respect (I mean what is with all the violence and fighting) and a lack of reading (can't these groups figure out how to deal with one another).

Third, all these demonstrations against Israel and Iran will achieve next to nothing. They are therapy measures. Sweden is too small to influence Iran. Iran wants to be attacked so it can perpetuate its impression that the West is evil. When it comes to Israel, Sweden could have had more influence, but the Aftonbladet article was allowed to advance another therapy measure to displace politics yet again. I think that many Swedish leftists will have to leave Sweden for a while and visit a country with a more serious left.

Comment: These countries are ruled and guided by orthodox fundamental governments, and have been throughout history, the discussion that I see is based on hatred that has been the forefront of separatist, power hungry rulers since the beginning of religion. You believe in the same GOD. You are brainwashed into taking sides, Your leaders manipulate, murder and mutilate in the name of that same God. and have done since intelligent man started offering sacrifice to the omnipotent,

You as serving, loyal, subjects are arguing about the same mistakes your fore bears did in the millenniums that has gone before,

Is it not time that you recognize that it is human beings you are dealing with,and take a stand against your own power hungry bastions of separatism, and war mongary,. death and destruction, before you destroy the world with your hatred and destruction, (on behalf of your leaders),

you are people that need sustenance, love, education, peace and prosperity, no matter what your ethnicity,

Was this the path that your profits and Gods chose, the path of death and destruction, We are not arguing over a football match, but a world war that when it comes would destroy every thing, well in advance of a global environmental catastrophe, (all in the name of???)

Is it not about time we disregard our theologians, that have the monopoly of God and realize they have a different agenda(you maybe as cannon fodder). You the Muslim, You the Jew, You the Christian. Your God are one and the same. Just like you people, different culture,s but no different, even to the same need for spiritual enlightenment,.

"do not be deceived by false profit", could it not apply to your religious, leaders and politicians

We have an environmental catastrophe ahead and we could put aside our small differences and fight it or we could accelerate this!

think of the legacy you leave to your children s children s children s children You are not a flock of sheep. You are human-beings!