March 22, 2010
Published: 22 Oct 09 11:10 CET
Updated: 22 Oct 09 15:46 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/22810/20091022/
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The Synod of the Lutheran Church of Sweden has come down in favour of church weddings for homosexuals in a vote held on Thursday morning.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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A young Swedish woman who falsely accused her father of rape will now face charges of her own. The father had received a five-year prison sentence in 2007 after the then 17-year-old girl reported he had sexually assaulted her. READ (9 COMMENTS) »
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Sweden’s convicted double murderer Annika Östberg Deasy, who is due to be released in May 2011, has been moved from a female prison to a rehabilitation centre where she will work at a day nursery for dogs. READ »
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approved and who may they be??
Discrace to the Church.
Wake up, use your head and stop being so ignorant.
I think I am more aligned with Beynch´s.I have nothing against same sex unions,or Homosexuals,but letting them change vows in "THE CHURCH" is just off line. Its an abormination. The definition of marrige as a union between man and woman is clear Biblically. Is this "Wrong",I cant trully say as most definitions are clearly redefined in this age and time. Good luck to the Gays then cos I´ve never been to church in sweden anyways.
Everyone who agrees with, what you say we all get up leave this God-forsaken gay-loving country and go somewhere where our sacred values won't be trampled on? What are we even doing living in a country where human beings are allowed to get married regardless of their sexual orientation? How dare anyone suggest that we don't have a monopoly on the concept of marriage and our stupid prejudices can't decide who gets to be happy and who has to make do with a "civil union" because we think so?
This is unbearable. Come on guys, buy your tickets, we're moving away and never coming back to this damned atheist-ridden elk pen! Let's go! I'm right behind you! I really am. Just buy the damn tickets.
What the church does isn't that significant since marrige is a civil union and not church law. Since we don't have a single mainstream dominant church in Canada our situation with church approval is different from Sweden. The more liberal church denominations over here have approved gay marriage while the more conservative ones have not approved. So pick your church as you wish.
The bottom line is in both Sweden and Canada gay marriage is legal, so if the churches don't approve it it really doesn't matter very much.
p.s
am I narrow minded?
point is everything is escalating, should there be a limit? I beleive there should cos the Bible states clearly the definition of marriage i.e in a church. so if a bible is in attendace then it should not be GAY. I have a gay friend so u know.
well as one put it live and let live, whats done is done!
The true followers of Christ the Lord who are so outraged by this, should not need tickets. I am sure that they can walk on water
Is it to give you something to complain about?
So what if two gays get married. Gay rights only affects gay people.
If you are so screwed up that you think someone should not have the same rights as you, move to Saudi Arabia, USA or Afghanistan, where you will be amongst people of the same mindset.
It should only concern you, if you are the gay getting married.
As for christian churches. Christianity was imposed in Sweden at the point of a sword. Christianity should be made to leave along with all other deranged cults hellbent on converting people to worship there social construct control mechanism.
According to the book written by various MEN, called the bible, you should be killed if you wear clothes that have mixed fibres, which means all you god fearing christians with opinions here, should either find a way to be killed or kill yourself as you are sinners.
In that book, a guy called Jesus spent a lot of time in a desert with a lot of men. I wonder what that was all about? Sounds like a very gay thing to me.
I have never understood why so many people are hung up on gay rights. I just plain do not get the problem. I don't give a damn what people do, as long as it is between two consenting adults.
To me gay people, just means they are outside the possibility of being a potential date for me. Although one gay guy I know is great to take shopping. Stereotypical I know, but so what. He has great clothing taste.
PS:
Something I have noticed over the years. People who are most intensely against gays, usually turn out to be guilt ridden gays. I have actually heard some of the comments some of you have made before when I worked in a bar. Strangely every single one who made type of comments would later be found out to be into men on the quiet.
The head of the royals is the head of their church, that part does make me laugh - but for reasons too long to be expressed here.
The catholic church has never (and will never) acknowledge same sex marriages.
And as pointed out by others, most (me included) have no problems with civil unions or even "court marriages", but will never really accept a *church* marriage between a gay couple, as we will never accept a marriage between a human and an animal or inanimate object.
Cheers,
www.eZee.se
As Penn & Teller said, religion is bullshit. Best definition ever.
Well said.
I am also fed up with the worshipping of an imaginary social construct called god.
People in the past have told me I should find god. Where do I find the imaginary social construct called god, in the pub, a nightclub, resturant, etc?
Religious belief is an extremely serious, debilitating, mental disorder. The sooner religious belief is seen for what it is, the better. The sooner it can be cured and removed from society.
At the end time we will know whether we chose wisely or not.
What a confusion this all must be for the children.
It seems like people misunderstand what love is all about.
If we love a person we want them the best and sometimes must it be tough love when we tell them they have to stay away from the bad temptation.
For me is homosexuality sex and not a lifestyle...will we now see all kind of weddings in the church ?
Are we going to accept people with leather pants and latex walking in to the altar and with their whip in their hands get God's blessing over their marriage ?
or are this law only for homosexual weddings , why should homosexual people be better than those other sexuality people have ?
Congrats Lutheran churches in Sweden. I hope you will have a nice service with men kissing men and women kissing women in your church.
Thank you for give me more people to my church, I will pick up those confused people from your church and show them what a real church created from the Bible will look like.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7661/855c057a08f947b2c468ccb.jpg
I say Hurray to the Lutheran church
2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people cannot get legally married because the world needs more children.
3. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children because straight parents only raise straight children.
4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful, since Britney Spears's 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
5. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and it hasn't changed at all: women are property, Blacks can't marry Whites, and divorce is illegal.
6. Gay marriage should be decided by the people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of minorities.
7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are always imposed on the entire country. That's why we only have one religion in America.
8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people makes you tall.
9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage license.
10. Children can never succeed without both male and female role models at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to cars or longer lifespans.
12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages will for gays & lesbians.
@all the other bible-thumpers who are quoting scripture: No one cares, it's fiction. Don't make me start quoting Jedi scripture. It's the same thing.
Leprehcaun, i came to stay, in god we trust...
Don't u ever think we came to Sweden for some other reason than seeking security…ever.
Thanks for your hospitality…
@Spy awesome comment
To all of you pathetic, imbecille, sad ones thinking this is wrong:
Why do you spend your time and energy hating and excluding people? Get a life! If you don't like the Swedish lgbtq friendly laws, you can move to Antarctica and start your own little homophobic society there! We don't want you here!
Gender Neutral Marriage in Church is a VICTORY for EQUALITY!!
LOVE•LOVE•LOVE•LOVE•LOVE•LOVE•LOVE•LOVE•LOVE•LOVE•LOVE•LOVE
I respond to your latest rant whare you told us 'immigrants' that you hate us and that we should get out.
I am not here to stay but I do have freedom to live anywhere in Europe. And whilst a Swedish company continues to pay me an inordinate amount of money to work here and whilst I am still enjoying it then I will live where I want.
Some pathetic little stalker like you is not going to change that so why don't you go an chat to some people your own age?
I don't mind them getting married but not in church it is disrespectful to God (forget about religion etc) the church is the house of God and he makes it clear that he loves the people but hates the activity! (sin It is quite clear what is stated)
this is nothing short of rape (and homo rape too)
this is like a bunch of gay people forcing you to host their party at your house when you are allergic to them! (you get my drift)
Gay people can get married elsewhere, everyone else does these days anyhow!
I feel it is very arrogant and disgusting that this has been pushed through!
I don't mind them shafting each out up the back door but to do this is criminal!
The church of sweden has been shafted up the arse by the poofters, well done the gay bobs! 10 points!
and because the synod voted for this makes me sick they can be bullied by a small minority (browbeaten).
then again it proves beyond doubt that the church of Sweden is not a real Christian church it is simply a political pawn!
I will not attend there again!
my personal gripe with Homosexuals is
well I have nothing against them personally except their push to get everyone on board the gravy train, it is the thin edge of the wedge!
If it is ok for their sexual perversion then it will shortly be ok for pedophiles (pedorists) to enjoy the same freedoms as there is but a thin line between homosexual and pedosexual really one has been forced OK on us the other we are still resisting strongly! (and I hope it stays that way)
I am sick of the homosexual bullshit that is foisted onto the rest of us!
sure if you are that way inclined then Ok but me I don't like gay sex so leave me alone and stop shafting everyone else's life.
we don't all need to be glad and dance in the street for gay people they should stop home and keep quiet just in case the >95% of people decide to not be so hospitable and exercise their democratic rights to silence them.
then again I fear that it maybe a conspiracy to get to stage two so the old perverts can come out of the closets too!
yeah enjoy your own sexuality,.... I think it is called rape if you force it on others especially those who are unwilling!
Second, being in the top list of the most free countries in the world, gay marriages is a must have, come on! [sarcasm here]
A true Christian ( follower of Jesus Christ ) is a person who has read and decided to accept the words of the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, as his/ her guide through life's perilous journey.
Many people throw out the Old Testament but Jesus Himself quoted from it.
In His time there was no New Testament.
As pointed out already the Old Testament says this..
" Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version)
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
These are very strong words and, as followers of Christ, we would be very unwise not to heed them, I would think.
I myself think that the church has taken the politically correct way out and, by doing this, is negating the words of the Book it supposedly lives by.
Sad..but as I said, we have the right to choose or reject no matter how hard it is.
As Christians we all have certain 'crosses' to carry but with intense prayer and focus on the final outcome we are able to overcome any obstacle.
Do you get haircuts?
"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27).
Do you wear modern clothing?
"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)
Eat pork?
"...and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)"
Eat shellfish?
"Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:12)
Do you own slaves?
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel. " (1 Peter 2:18)
The message of Jesus Christ is love. The only thing that makes a person Christian is that they invite Jesus Christ into their heart as their savior and ask forgiveness for their sins.
"Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:37-40)
Vladd777, you can continue to justify your personal prejudices through selectively interpreting the Bible, but it is not you who decides what is right or wrong in the eyes of the Lord.His commandment for you and all Christians is to love him and love your family and neighbors. Leave the rest of the judging to Him.
it is ridiculous to claim that the church has given up its principles by accommodating gay rights. The church is actually applying Christian principles to modern society, realizing that there is no Christian reason to discriminate against loving, modern gay couples. Anyone who thinks the Church is an eternally unchanging organization ought to fight for their Biblical right to keep slaves. There are much more ancient forms of Christianity than Luthernism and Catholicism. Try Eastern Orthodoxy. Even that relies on its own historical developments and changes in Biblical interpretation. The Church Synod voted overwhelmingly in favor. How do you know that this development wasn't sanctioned and set into motion by God? Do you put yourself on a higher pedestal than God?
Good posts. There are always going to be gay people in our communities whether inside the church or outside the church. So what do you say to two gay Christians who want to marry. I think we should bless their relationship and support it so that they are happy and productive members of the church and our society.
"Love one another as I have loved you" Jesus said. Many people think homosexuality is a sin. Sin is missing the mark or,in other words, a mistake. I think it is a mistake to allow people's sexual orientation to get in the way of our good intentions for them. If we have to give up an obsession with other peoples sexuality, that is a small sacrifice to make. Jesus sacrificed hmself on the altar of his contemporaries need for power. His radical acceptance of the outcast threatened people. He taught his disciples to love one another, no matter who we are and what we have done. Remember, none of us is without sin that we refuse to give up, so we are all guilty of sin. So pointing out sin in someone else only judges ourselves. Better we love one another and give each other the benefit of the doubt, than condemn each other and condemn ourselves.
You are one of the creepiest fundamentalist Christians I've seen. Thank god 99% of Christians in Sweden are nothing like you, and you are alone in your delusional little world.
PS: I bet you're not even from Sweden.
who walk around with feet above the ground. The higher you float ,the harder you fall (By izbz) See you in Hades or hate or whatever!
Rivers turning into blood = Warrants caution.
Rains of brimstone and fire = Alarming.
The seven seals are broken and the four horsemen of the apocalypse riding their fiery mounts bring pestilence, war, famine, and death to the world, effectively ending mankind = Oh dear Lord, what have we done to deserve this?? Nooooo!
Two guys kissing = NOT A BIG DEAL.
Are you one of those religious nutter who thinks that the world is only 6000 years old and that "evolution is a bag of commie bullshit"?
Or have you just discovered how to cut and paste?
Marriage between a male and a female is actually the forerunner of a union between Jesus Christ and His church.
The church is the Bride ( female ) Rev 19:7-8 Jesus refers to Himself as the Bridegroom. Mark2:19-20
When He is asked about punishment for adultery the supposed perpetrator is female. John 8:1-11
Question: "What does it mean that the church is the bride of Christ?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/bride-of-Christ.html#
So at the end of the day it appears that Marriage in the true sense is far above being just a physical union. It is a Holy/Sacred union.
As PrinceKnight says.. "But, to give homosexual relations any hint or suggestion of legitimacy in the Church; we have failed in following the teachings of the Lord God almighty and His son, Jesus Christ."
And actually I tend to avoid eating pork and shellfish and I used to have servants when i lived in South Africa.
Just like everyone else im a sinner and not a saint.
1: The True Believers, the midgits/midgets, the Pirates, and the Pastafarians, gathered in the shadow of The Mountain, and nearby were Some Trees.
2: They looked upon one another in the vast multitudes gathered there, and finally one spoke for she was wise among them.
3: "There are many of us here."
4: "Yes!" cried the thousands upon thousands of voices, in a deafening shout of agreement.
5: "One at a time!" she said,
6: "or I shall have the First Holy Hissy Fit!
7: And none of this crying junk, either.
8: Normal talking will do just fine."
9: "Alright, we're sorry," they said, in a less deafening rumble.
10: "That's a little better, but not much,: said the wise one. 11: "Let me introduce myself. I am the First of the Dee Dees, 12and the generations of the Pastafarians shall come to know me well. 13Throughout the generations, the Pirates shall know me, and the Midgit/Midgets, and all the Brothers and Sisters:¦14 for wherever they wander I will be there to assure fairness and wisdom. 15My descendents will spend many late nights wandering the Forums of the Internet, making comments and settling disagreements, and occasionally smacking around the idiotic."16 A distant hand arose in the crowd. 17: "You there," said Dee Dee the First, pointing her out, : "Did you have a question?"
18: "Um, yes, begging your pardon, ma'am, but what is the Internet?" asked a woman nearly lost in the crowd.
19: "Good question," answered Dee Dee the First, 20: "and I wish I could answer, but I do not yet know. 21All I can tell you is this; Our Great Noodly Lord Touched Me with His Appendage in the night:¦" 22The crowd made a low eeewwww sound, for some interpreted this with jealousy, others interpreted it as naughtiness, and others as icky. 23: "Behave Yourselves!" said Dee Dee the First with a stomp of her foot. 24: "This is just what The Flying Spaghetti Monster warned me about. 25He Touched me and told me that for generations, people of all sorts would be unruly, and for some reason I and my descendents would have to keep them in line." 26She sighed a sigh audible far and wide among the True Believers. 27: "On that note, He also told me that among the True Believers there is great wisdom, and that it should be gathered together, and that some poor sap would volunteer to write it all down."
28: "I have a bunch of stone tablets and a chisel," came a distant and smarty-pants voice from the back of the crowd.
29: "You then. I guess you're the one," said Dee Dee the First. 30A great and painfully deafening cheer sounded forth from the gathered True Believers. 31Among the cheer, both Dee Dee the First and the scribe could swear they were able to discern people saying 32: "Sucker!"33 and : "Chump!" 34and : "Better you than me!"
35: "Would you ALL stop shouting!," yelled Dee Dee the First. 36: "You do NOT want to see me get angry!"
I suppose fossils were put on earth by God to test our faith??
1. Our Pasta which art in marinara, delicious be thy name. Thy plate has come. Thy will be eaten in earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily serving. And forgive us our occasional overcooking, as we forgive them that take seconds before us. And lead us not into cleaning. But deliver us from weasles. RAmen.
"FSM answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every pasta that comes from the mouth of me"
"A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but pasta answereth all things"
2. Blessed are the pasta-makers, they shall inherit 10 gold dubloons.
3. I think, therefore I am a pirate.
4. As you treat the least of the midgets, so you treat Him.
5. Please prepare your plates, let us eat. Bobby, pass the Parmesian.
6. The Flying Spaghetti Monster looks with favor upon the saucy, but shall withhold his blessed beer volcano from the dry.
7. His Noodlyness blesses not the deniers of Global warming, but shall make pirates plentiful to those who have been touched.
8. Arrrrrr, it is revealed and to be held holy that two meatballs exist, but three meatballs shall garner the wrath of His Appendage.
9. When a problem comes along, you must wip it. *wupish!* Wip it good!
10. When you get pulled over by a cop, do NOT ask if he has a curly pink tail.
11. Elvis isn't dead.
12. UFOs are really FSMs giant Frisbees!
13. When in a fight, try to get combos. They give you bonus points!
14. If someone is different then you in some way, he or she should be feared and hated.
Lancer
The Torah, Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon and every other religious tract where written by MEN not god. These tracts are the views or opinions of MEN who wanted to push a particular idea. To make it more persuasive they said that it was the word of a deity. What is attributed to the prophets of the various religious beliefs, was written hundreds and sometimes thousands of years after the event. Have you ever played the whisper game and seen how a statement can be changed when passed around a group.
The point is that all these homophobic quotes being bandied about here where written by MEN with an agenda of their own. We do not know if 'God' is against homosexuals or not. Maybe he is maybe he isn't . We will have to wait and see.
If there is a God and he is against the Swedish (or any other) church marrying same sex couples, then 'surely he shall smite them down'
I shall wait for the thunderbolt that will hit every church in Sweden.
If it happens on New Years Eve it will save some money on fireworks!
I would like to draw your attention to one of your earlier posts (#32)where you clearly mention immigration.
'Now move from this country and from this continent! If anyone needs a proof that the immigration policy of this country has failed miserably, then the fact that people like you have gotten in should be the only proof needed to put the Sweden democrats in majority..'
So it seems you are either talking rubbish or you forgot what you wrote.
Put some effort in any fool can cut and paste.
So you are saying that you reserve the right to be racist if you think the person you are adressing could be an asseho£e?
Interesting.. But that still makes you a racist pric£.
I remind you of what you said in an earlier post:
'Now move from this country and from this continent! If anyone needs a proof that the immigration policy of this country has failed miserably, then the fact that people like you have gotten in should be the only proof needed to put the Sweden democrats in majority..'
And on that note I go back to the bar, but before I do I must say that I am very happy you are not in charge of Sweden's immigration policy. Toolde-pip.
Really people?Nowadays?Where it is hard to even find a purpose to go on?Much less a special someone to spend your life with?And who are YOU to quote man's words that presumably depict God's will?Religion exists to ease the pain and not inflict any more, it is not there to impose rules...you should act based on who you are,not based on what 2000y.o. scripts indicate or insinuate.
I am not religious, straight or gay I would never get married in a church but also I would never imagine to refuse someone the right to get married wherever one wishes because of the person's sexual orientation. I would not expect Swedes to do so either, thus I am really proud to be living in this country...I was not born in it, I choose it!
We have so many serious problems to solve as mankind...are you so self-absorbed that you can not see we need to unite and take serious measures to save ourselves and our children's future?
There are plenty of things that are unnatural that you love to do.
To the rest of the churches in the world: There's nothing wrong with homosexuality, re-interpret your Bibles so that they fit your moral standards.
but the fellow swedish note the following that when sodom and gomora adopted homsexuelity God destried it many will say that is history but how is god going to destroy sweden
do you know that sweds have a negative growth that every marriege of two produces one kid so if they marry a man 2 man it will be zero after 100 years we shall be telling people that at one time there was a race of the sweds when by that time its eaten up by aother races
do you know that all the non sweds produce more than four kid one day time will tell but let us pray for our beloved country
Well said!
If some managers in this institution prefer kissing the behinds of the majority of population in left-wing-liberal-atheist Sweden, it does not mean that the few conservative believers have to think of other arguments than the book they believe in. Where should THEY go with their beliefs and prejudices and whatever you and many here think is closed-minded and plain wrong?
Next thing will be a full denial of God and removing the crosses from churches, because it offends the non-believers. With that - the arguments from the Bible will not be accepted by you because you do not believe in it (being so open-minded and all).
What I think is ridiculous is that the majority of gays are extremely liberal in all questions relating to abortion, taxes, immigration and such. All of a sudden the churches holy matrimony is the ONE thing they cannot live without. The ancient tradition of declaring the belonging of the woman to a specific man is the one thing that the homosexuals feel amazingly conservative about. It is clearly a matter of a principal and the conflict avert swedish church just bends over.
Lack of holding to the principals makes this church a joke and it is not surprising that Sweden has the most atheistic society in the world.
Being an atheist, I always respected the religion for its amazing power to unite people, for being the solid grounds for many who live very unstable life, for the architectural genius and for the ability to remember history's lessons for long time. Whenever the buildings turn into offices, the rules change every 5 years, the holidays become Tomten and Kalle Anka - religious institutions have no point and therefore they reject people instead of attracting them...
I just hope I won't go crazy during the winters.
Its worth remembering that the bible is not a 'letter from God', in fact it was penned by people (many of whom clearly have different perspectives) these writings have also been edited by the church over the years. So to quote it as the sole argument is pretty futile as there is usually a contradictory quote availible to neutralize it.
The current laws of the atheists are complicated and often contradictory as the Bible and yet, you do not call to disobey the law (btw, this is the best argument of the anarchists in favor of anarchy).
The fact that YOU do not believe in the dogmas of church does not mean that the church HAS to adapt to the latest fashion of modern society. It does not have to and should not, as long as it does not harm others. Not agreeing to marry gays should be as insulting for the gays, as the refusal of the Bolshoi Ballet to let me dance on the scene, given that I never danced ballet, is insulting for me. There are certain prerequisites to belong to the club of the Church, like there are prerequisites of height for kids on a fast roller coaster. The kids cannot do anything about it and so the gays shall not be able to, if the LAW gives them all the rights that the heterosexuals have, of course!
Then that is the church's choice.
There is nothing you can say to make them change thier minds.
So just leave it alone.