February 14, 2012
Published: 27 Oct 09 11:05 CET | Double click on a word to get a translation
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/22904/20091027/
Lazy, self-entitled and spoiled. These are just a few of the choice adjectives employed to describe the generation born in the 1980s, the first generation since Hemingway's to be characterised as “lost.” But how accurate is this stereotype and, moreover, are members of the 80s generation really to blame for Sweden's ailing job market, asks The Local's Charlotte Webb.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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fin
adjective
Fin means anyhting from sweet to proper. When someone says, Du är så fin it's quite a compliment.
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i have not actually experienced any "generational" discrimination myself, but being born in 1980 qualifies me for the club, i guess. the way she describes the job situation, however, is pretty much the story of my life.
What they haven't thought out is that far fewer than 50% of jobs need graduates so what are all the others going to do?
Cometition is higher, wages get to be lower and kids loaded with debt from going to uni are left paying the bill.
Looks good for the govt though, unemployment was kept low for a year or two!
I grew up in the US and had the same thing told to me, you have to get a degree to get a good job. The problem is that even with a degree most people end up working crap jobs. I have lots of friends a 4 year degree and even some with double masters and PhDs and a majority are working in low paying jobs that have nothing to do with their degree.
The odd thing is that my friends that don't have degrees make more than the ones with degrees most of the time. They started working straight out of high school and now have 10+ years experience in construction, plumbing, etc., belong to unions and make a decent wage. Granted, they don't have luxery homes and cars but they do own them, vs. the college crowd that are still renting, working at retail stores and have 50k in college debt.
The whole thing about older generations thinking the younger ones are lazy and spoiled isn't anything new. I do think that older people often times fail to stop and think about how much the world has changed. It's harder to find permanent, full-time jobs now, and the cost of living has grown at a much faster rate than wages have.
Gone are the days of finding a "good" job right out of school, working there for 40 years then becoming a pensioner with everything paid off.
People wonder why the job market is falling to pieces, blaming us 80's kids, but it's not our fault. Like Charlotte points out, everything is so damn specialized you have no room to move and grow and learn. There's no such thing as grace and "starting at 0" in the current job market.
Every generation has had its hardships with jobs and education, but I think so far ours has been the toughest. There's enormous pressure to be computer savvy, not just with Office and internet, but all sorts of data entry programs, coding, web design languages etc that aren't exactly included in the general education. To gain these skills it takes 2+ years of study for the basics, or you can go to a private training company and pay 20 000+ kr for a 4 day crash course.
A little understanding from older generations would be very much appreciated, and a little leniency too, so that we can fully "grow up" and take charge of our lives, and not reaffirm people's incorrect stereotypes simply because there's nothing else we can do.
As an owner of a small business I expect school leavers aged 16 to be able to spell and construct hand written sentences without glaring grammatical errors. To do mental arithmetic for addition, subtraction and basic multiplication and division.
I expect them to be able to do complex multiplication and division (to several decimal points) without the use of a calculator, and to be able to convert fractions to percentages in their head.
All of this the average 16 year old could do many years ago. It shouldn't be too much to ask but it seems that it is these days.
I don't care about computer skills, basic MS Office skills can be self taught in one day. I don't expect employees not to use calculators, but I need my employees to know why the calculator gives the answer it does.
The last computer studies graduate I employed couldn't work out 2% of 50 without spending 5 minutes fumbling around with a calculator, and then I had to help him. I employed him because he was the best available.
It's enough to make one despair.
if i hadnt learnt to do some basic calculation in my head, i wouldnt have made it through high school. we werent allowed a calculator until we were (might be slightly off here) 15.
now so much more needs to be squeezed into the time dedicated to each subject that certain aspects of learning are being dropped from the schedule. While computer education was not really relevant when I was 6, kids born 10 years later already take them for granted. to us, they were huge and an exciting novelty.
so anyway, the point i am trying to make is, i think, that we cant really blame it on the kids that they cant do calculations in their heads if school never focused on that. i guess the conflict of generations will just go on, with us calling the new generation stupid or unknowledgable because they come with a different set of skills than we did when we left school.
I grew up in a period of high unemployment in an economically deprived part of England and went to what was judged as one of the worst schools in the country. I still managed to get the education and career I wanted. It helps to spend less time navel gazing and whinging and more time working out how to get what you want.
i dont think that people of our generation are whining very much, as it is usually the opposite case: being whined AT for being "lazy". i think this article and all comments are just a contribution to set the picture right.
nobody who posted here is actually whining because everybody has been pointing out that they have a job and work hard. the problem is that having good education and being a hard worker does unfortunately not guarantee a good job nowadays.
bit unfair of you to say that "just work hard and figure out how to get where you want to be". sometimes things just dont work out the way you want it. good for you if your life has turned out great but that does not necessarily mean that its the same for everybody even if they might have tried the same things you have.
Also, what is it with this the need for a "good job" to be guaranteed for a hard worker with an education ? Nothing in life is ever guaranteed.
When I graduated unemployment was far higher than it is today. All the major companies had stopped recruiting and it was a mess. I left the country and moved somewhere where there was work. It was hard but worthwhile. At no time did I ever think that things were unfair. Its just the way that it was.
Times have really changed from when my parents were in their early 20's. My mom moved out of her parent's house at age 18 and got an entry-level job which fully paid her rent, utility bills, and food with a bit extra to save for a rainy day. She didn't go to college so she didn't have a large amount of debt. My 25 year old sister, however, has a degree and college debt and still has to work two jobs at a time to barely get by, and she lives extremely frugally. She also has a hard time getting a job that lasts - usually the jobs are only for one year periods, and none of them are in her field of interest. She even started a small business with two of her classmates (which is now her side-job) but it doesn't bring in enough. I'm 21 and studying now but I worry about when I graduate. Spending a lot of time looking at job openings it seems that everything is specialized and requires years of experience and very few of the jobs are even close to a subject you can study in school. All throughout my late teen years my parents tried to teach me how to get job experience, "Just go in and ask every week!" Well, I only got angry and annoyed responses whenever I tried that old-fashioned technique. We don't live in the constantly-booming post-war years. Sometimes I wish I could ask my great-grandma what she did when she was in her 20's, before the post-WWII prolonged economic boom. Because I feel like us children of baby-boomers were raised to have the same high expectations of the job market as our parents experienced, but the world now just isn't what it was for them. Everyone I know is in huge debt since everyone is told that a college degree is worth it no matter what. Everyone is wondering if they'll ever be able to get out of debt, if they'll ever be able to own their own home, if they'll be able to save up enough for retirement with being told that there will be a pension crisis... It really feels like a new century...the old ways of 1950's optimistic capitalism have given way to cynicism and apathy of all economic systems... both right and left are being questioned for their lack of sustainability, and guess what? It's our generation that will be smack in the middle of it all if this all has really been unsustainable and falls apart.
It is not just the 19080's generation who are suffering. Born in 1963 and with a career demonstrating a variety of skills, I cannot get a job since moving here to Sweden 2 years ago. My personnummer instantly reveals my age and many adverts here demand people to fit into our "young team" of twenty somethings. Unless you fit into a very specific box, the computerised job seeking sites do you no favours. When I last sought work in the UK in about 2002, there was still the opportunity to sit down and meet recuitment consultants who were able to gauge your abilities, strengths and weaknesses and see a "fit" for the employers they worked for. This, in my experience, has been demolished by database systems. I wholeheartedly agree that it is ridiculous to be expecting 3 years experience for window cleaning or serving in a cafe. I also think that the UK government's strategy of streaming 50% into university education has done nothing but cause debt and heartache and manage to drive many competent lecturers away from Britain.
As for retraining, I look to do this but have found that because I had a university education in the 1980's I am refused even on some basic Komvux courses. No win. Thank God I have a working partner.
Every younger generation critises the older generation.
It has been like that since the dawn of time.
Idealising the United States and United Kingdom, is pointless. They both have major problems as well, such as higher unemployment than Sweden.
I am not even going into detail what my thought process was when I started my studies, as I really do not have to defend my decisions in front of you. Just a quick question: did you believe the job market prognosis when you started studying? Come on, make me laugh.
I do not even trust the weatherman and all he is trying to do is predict the upcoming two weeks. In fact, when I left school we were told to pick what we truely felt we wanted to study because job market predictions could not be trusted.
You should really reconsider your stand point regarding employment a bit. Do you really think that what got you a relatively good job was that you made the "right choices"?
I have news for you, most peoples' lives are not as straightforward as a series of "good choices". Good education and working toward your goal does not always get you where you want to be. A lot also depends on sheer dumb luck, of which you have obviously had plenty, otherwise you would repect other people and not declare everybody an underachiever just because their efforts did not bear the same fruit as yours have.
I don't mean to be rude, but what did you honestly expect to do with an arts degree? There are so many young people who do degrees in subjects such as "media studies" or history of art, fully funded by the taxpayer, and to what purpose?
The overwhelming majority of these students will not be able to get gainful employment within their chosen field. All it does is simply devalue the whole degree system.
I didn't choose what I really wanted to study at university because the subject of "how to turn poop into diamonds" wasn't offered as a degree title. So I choose the subject of mechanical engineering because it was the only degree that was useful within a wide spectrum of fields (banking to aerospace). Admittedly, I was one of the few graduates from my department who ended up working within engineering in the end.
Pidegeon Hunter-> Good education does not rely on "dumb luck" unless you are referring to the probability of being born in western Europe as opposed to sub-saharan Africa? Also, what is wrong with labelling other people as "underachievers?" Would you prefer to simply celebrate their mediocrity instead?
ps. I am also a child of the 80's, I have never felt there was any stigma attached to it, and I have two university degrees and am fairly successful within my chosen career.
Stop whining, go get a decent job and get on with your life before it completely passes you by!