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February 13, 2012
Playing with fire lands 11-year-old with million kronor debt
Published: 13 Nov 09 08:20 CET | Double click on a word to get a translation
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/23242/20091113/
An 11-year-old boy has been ordered to pay 1.9 million kronor ($276,000) in damages after causing smoke and water damage to a Stockholm home, the Aftonbladet newspaper writes.
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The insurance company agreed to meet the costs incurred by the family for the damages to their home - 1.9 million kronor - and then proceeded to sue the boy in court.
The court has now ruled that the boy is responsible for his actions - the debt can not be claimed from the other members of his family.
"According to Swedish law children can be liable for damages to the same extent as adults," said Mårten Schultz, an expert in liability law, told the newspaper.
"The debt is the child's, it is the boy that has to pay up," he confirmed.
While Schultz explained that Swedish law supported the decision he said that he had never heard of someone so young being ordered to pay such a high sum. The figure is usually significantly reduced.
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This is totally stupid.
Otherwise may be he could sue the ligther company as it could happen in states!
Otherwise the huge fines will have to be cancelled. By the way is it right to fine an 11 year old with such a heavy amount?
Why does The Local wait so long to update their daily news? Shouldn't the morning's stories be published long before 9am.
Its not like the translation work is that demanding.
Very interesting that he can not file for bankruptcy until he is 15. I am not quite sure about the rules in Sweden but would this preclude him from being a Company Director for a year or so and mean that he would not be allowed any credit? Also will any property he owns be clawed back by the creditor?
- Is this incident is really going to affect his life? . .
How can you be responsible for your actions at 9? If you're not able to be criminally responsible, which he can't be, then surely you shouldn't be economically responsible either.
P.S The local, what does this mean? Doe's he have to start paying the debt back when he's earning? Can he get a student loan?
People are fond of stating that Sweden is a secular country and so forth, and so forth. I more and more get the feeling that Swedes have not become less religious but just changed the God worshipped. The new worship is the God of money and taxes. Increasing taxes are the miracle cure of any of society's problems, or so it seems.
A person who murders someone in cold blood gets off scot free or with minimum time incarceration, or a period of reflection at a psychiactric facility. However, if a crime is committed which damages someone's "pockets", the maximum penalty is applied, even to 9-year-old children.
What's wrong with this picture?
Anyway I find it downright stupid if this 9 year old gets a huge fine, although if he were to rape someone, he would get off much lighter.
I agree with karex, there is something seriously wrong with this picture the Swedish Justice System has painted.
I think this is how it works. The parents pay the money on a monthly basis till the child comes of age then he or she takes over and pays the money
In common law countries (like the UK and US), the 1.9 million kronor is not a fine, and not a punishment. It is money to repair the house.
So, from an American point of view: This child burned the house. It was not a crime, because he did not intend to damage the house. But the owner had a house yesterday, but not today. Who pays to fix the house? The answer is simple: who caused the damage? In this case, somebody accidentally caused a fire, and is being held responsible for the damage.
Is that not how it works in Sweden?
I think that you may have a point there. From the information given in the article, it was the insurance company who sued. Ergo, a private suit, or?
Perhaps what's wrong with the whole thing is that laws governing crime and those which affect private lawsuits are not aligned, i.e., there are different standards applied. It also seems that judges don't act in a uniform way, making it seem that the outcome of a trial is more depending on the judge (plain luck) than the letter of the law. It seems to me that this cannot be good for society in the longrun.
If you make the property damager repay for the damages, then what about the killer who kills somebody?
An eye for an eye. A humana for a human. And an animal for an animal.
Property damage for property damage.
There is definitely something wrong with this judicial system.
Do you not have a concept of "criminal" and "civil" law? I am familiar with US and UK law, but not so much with Swedish law.
Killing somebody is a criminal offense. The law says "If you kill somebody, you will be punished". Typically, that punishment is to be put in prison. (This is true even in the US, which still has capital crimes.)
Stealing is a criminal offense. The law says "If you steal, you will be punished".
The law says this because we want people to think "I won't do that because I don't want to be punished".
The law does not say "If you damage something accidentally, we will put you in prison". That would not prevent accidents, because nobody _wants_ to cause accidents. (If they want it to happen, it is not an accident.)
But the law does say "If you damage property by accident, you have to repay the owner for the cost of the damage."
How else should it work? Should we put people in prison for accidents? Or should I have to pay when somebody else damages my property in an accident?
Killing somebody is criminal offence. The law says"If you kill somebody, youe will be punished". Typically that punishment is to be put in prison.
Well, I think there is something seriously wrong. We are not discussing what verdict is being given. We are disucssing what kind of verdict is being given. In other words we are actually analysing the kind of laws that exist here.
Let us take criminal law irrespective of civil law.
In criminal law they put you in prison for some time if you take the whole life of somebody. Even if we do not compare this law with Civil law, we still do not see justice in it.
Why? Because in Civil law you go for damage for dame concept but here in criminal law when it means to reciprocate through punishment because there is some crime commited, you give a much lighter punishment. Is it not non sense?
Punishment has to be either tougher or at least equal.
But we punish the guy who takes the life of somebody by putting him/her in prison for some time and then we later on let him/her scott free.
To reprimand the kid fair enough but............there are many ways to reprimand .....community work after school for instance. I really don't think the kid did that intentionally, must have wet his pants watching the place burned down.