Few convictions for paying for sex in Sweden

Sounds like Beatrice Ask wants a prison state.

Any true modernization of the law in regards to this subject would be to legalize and regulate prostitution fully so that there is a consensual, legal prostitution market to take customers and money out of the criminal underground.

The law is a little stupid and anyone with an ounce of sense can circumvent it. For example, it is legal to make a porn film here so if you buy sex from a woman and film it then that would make it legal, no? After all you are making a porn film.

I don't know what the right solution is to this problem but legalising it should help because it can be controlled, workers checked and most importantly should prevent people being forced into doing it.

You will never get rid of it totally, it just goes underground so burying one's head in the sand is not a solution.

But maybe I am naive?

Legalising it, is sure the way forward.

You are absolutely right, Ceitinn

I think it is a great law.

It has driven it underground as the girls need to hide from the law (even though they are not acting illegally) to protect their client base. As in it has become an underground industry it has oppened up the possibility of finding underage girls and if you are adventurous and like to get a bit "rough" if you find an independant girl you can have all the fun in the world.....

Good job Sweden!!!

In Australia is so dull that it is legal. Organised brothels with strict security limits how much fun you have, so the girls can feel safe and no (or at least not many) brothels would risk their licence "to print money" by employing underage girls or "slaves". I am not saying you cannot find the good stuff, but you have to know where to look and on the whole most guys just go to the legal and well managed knock-shops to get a fix.

ha, ha, ha..

I used to live at the top of Jakobsbergsgatan. Not 20m from my front door were the most prolific hookers in the whole Stockholm area. Every time I heard that prostitution had been eliminated in Sweden I laughed.

...but the biggest laugh of all came when my wife pointed out to me that our neighbour one floor down (and used the same entrance) was the Swedish Chief of Police (a civilian post).

Don't believe the hype. Its out there on the streets of Stockholm for everyone to see.

Renfeh Hugh I can't find any words that describes what I feel right now.. Well.. actually I don't really feel anything.. Not only have you made it clear that you're a pervert (medically speaking; it's not an insult or anything, I write this without a single emotion; I write this while in shock and disbelief) but worst of all you encourage men, most likely in their 40s and 50s to go to Stockholm and look for underage girls to buy sex from. Or maybe the worst part is that you seem to be proud of it; you're not ashamed and you don't have any regrets.. again I write this while being emotionally numb; what the hell is wrong with you? If it wasn't that you wrote your comment at noon (and yes, I felt like I had to check) I's assume that you were drunk or high when you wrote that.

If you don't have a sense of right and wrong can you at least respect our laws (well you've already made it clear that you don't give a sh!t about those but.. jeeze..)? How can you be such an.. how can you behave like that?

Or maybe you're a Sweden Democrat troll who is trying to make people hate western immigrants?.. but I think I've read several comments from you so that is unfortunately not probable.

hmmm... Jakobsbergsgatan is right in the Stockholm's center.

(Foreword: The topic of these news is NOT forced prostitution, human trafficking or child abuse.)

This bizarre and most counterproductive law was invented and pushed through by women's libbers which have no clue of the topic they are ranting about. Instead of protecting the sex workers from endangerment by clients and exploitation by pimps, they are dried out if they want to stay legal by not being able to sell a service which nobody is permitted to buy, or forced underground if they want to work in their profession.

Criminalizing the customer of paid sexual services can only be called mentally sane in countries with a moral system like most of the U.S. or Iran. The state has no right to intervene in the citizens' private life happening in their underpants. It is everyone's personal decision to buy sex or not to buy sex as long as it is offered. It also is a discriminatory measure against older single men with no good looks, no job, maybe even handicaps, and nothing in the bank accounts either who are punished for being 'unsuccessful' by being refused access to sex at all.

This grotesque product of fatuous minds of severely confused and frustrated female intellectuals has driven the profession into semi-legality and damages the persons it allegedly protects. Compare to countries like Germany where acknowledging prostitition as regular job including taxation and health care has taken the crime out of prostitution.

@Leprechaun

Sarcasm: a form of humor that uses sharp, cutting remarks or language intended to mock, wound, or subject to contempt or ridicule, generally saying the opposite of what the statement really is.

I am just highlighting the end result of idiot do-gooders who think that problems go away when they close their eyes.

well said Renfeh Hugh, ja ja ja

A similar law to the swedish one is proposed for the UK. I guess it will meet with a similar fate.

I can almost see why such a law might be introduced; make the payer in prostitution the law breaker. However the law is run by men apparently for men. The woman will almost always get the blame and shame.

The comment from EtoileBrilliant just confirms my belief that crime and the police are two sides of the same coin.

If someone is so pathetic they have to pay for sex, they should be laughed at, not criminalised.

The issue of prostitution, is easily dealt with.

Firstly, prostitution needs to be legalised.

All prostitutes by law, should be over 25.

All prostitutes should work in a brotel on a secure site, with full security. The brothel should be placed in an industrial park. It is a business afterall.

All brothels should be run by HSB/Bostads, renting out rooms to prostitutes as a business arrangement in an industrial setting.

All contracts should be independantly reviewed, with the review panel including at minimum a forensic accountant, emergency room surgeon, experienced emergency room nurse, police officer specialising in sex crimes, an anti-terrorist officer and a specialist in anti-trafficking.

Any hint of a madam or sex slave issue, should be used by the police to come in with all guns blazing.

Any use of anyone under the age of 25 as a prostitute should be met with all available force from the police, including lethal. The police should be exempt from prosecution for killing anyone who purchases sex from anyone under 25.

All prostitutes should be screened jointly by the police and healthcare system, for criminal records, drug abuse, mental illness, etc.

Regular health checks should be carried out every two weeks or so.

All prostitutes should pay tax, just like everyone else who is self employed.

Anyone caught trafficking, should expect that the police will have the right to kill them at any point, if they do not instantly co-operate, surrender, etc.

Anyone trafficking a child or having/seeking sex with a child, should be executed.

Anyone marrying someone under the age of consent, should be executed.

Trafficking of people, child, adult or whatever, should be treated as a terrorist offence. All traffickers fund terrorists, therefore are terrorists and should be treated accordingly.

Terrorism and related offences, should be dealt with by the military and treated as a live fire (airstrike, articllery/mortar/etc) exercise with no legal consequences for the soldiers involved, unless they are careless and fire on innocent unmarked/unpainted civilians.

Somebody apparently has a good solution for overcrowded Swedish prisons - why not execute them all? Inspired by Hitler? And then continue with mentally ill people, like the author of the above contribution - Nemesis.

@ CarlBlack

Thank you for stating the complete opposite of what I have written. Considering that by your name, English is your native language. Your twist around on my comments is very sinister?

The only people I have suggested should be executed in my comment above are,

People who pay for sex with those to young to be prostitutes, traffickers, paedophiles and those who use trafficking to fund terrorism.

For the record, if you bothered to read my comments elsewhere you will see that I support the rights of disabled and mentally ill people.

Your attempt to attack me, because I have attacked those who traffic children and adults, is noted.

I have seen the damage trafficking does and have also seen your type of twist around arguement before in that very subject.

Nemesis, I would like to know whether you consider the above mentioned crimes as worse than murder, and whether you also recommend executing all murderers, attempts of murder and similar crimes.

"The police should be exempt from prosecution for killing anyone who purchases sex from anyone under 25." .... since you suggest killing people by police without trial, I recommend you to move to some police or army dictature.

Also it's strange how did you come to this number 25, in 18 a person is considered as being able to decide about themselves, even to decide about others for example by executing the right to vote.

As for the paedophiles you wan to execute, they are in fact mentally ill, which contradicts your above statement.

@ CarlBlack

I do not believe that anyone under 25 has enough life experience to become a prostitute.

It takes more life experience to understand fully what prostitution is and what it will do to a person, than marriage.

Now you are making excuses for paedophiles.

Paedophilkes know full well what they are doing and you know that. They are not curable.

Paedophiles do not deserve to exist. Execution is too good for them.

If you love paedophiles and want to excuse them, goto a police station and tell them your opinions.

I find your support of paedophilia to be beyond weird.

Good one Nemesis :)

So in your world over 25's can whore themselves in safety whilst the younger ones have to work the streets or internet and be at the mercy of pimps and anyone else who wants to take advantage of them.

In theory the under 18's are protected from the need to sell themselves by living with there family, but less over 18's have the same "protection" and want independence. A minority of them regardless of what "head in the sand" mentality the government have will turn to the oldest profession.

You are no better than Beatrice Ask and the others.

@ Renfeh Hugh

Wrong. Most likely you find the rpesent situation created by morons like Beatrice Ask to be suitable for you.

In my previous comments I made clear that anyone pimping/trafficking/etc a child should be executed.

If you had actually read my previous commments you would know that I would execute any pimps/madams. I also make clear what needs to be done with traffickers and other abusers.

You are selctively quoting me hoping to twist my arguement just like CarlBlack who has tried to make excuses for paedophiles.

Anyone making excuses for paedophiles, such as psychiatrists, vatican, sociologists, lawyers or anyone one exusing them, should all be exterminated with them. Those vermin needs to be completely removed from society, including anyone who supports them, argues for them or tries to understand them.

Children do not have to turn to prostitution, just because you believe a minority will. If you approve of children being in prostitution, you need to turn yourself into the police.

Anyone putting children into prostitution should be executed as far as I am concerned. Anyone approving of, or making excuses for putting children in prostitution should be killed with them.

Most likely you prefer the present situation as that makes prostitutes vulnerable. I want to remove that vulnerability, so as to allow them to work in safety. Legalisation is the only way to do that.

What really needs to occur is this.

Legalisation of prostitution needs to be enacted immediately and at the same time complete extermination of paedophiles, pimps, traffickers and there excusers needs to begin.

Nemesis,

Most Europeans do not want the death penalty as Europeans have had more than their share of that during Nazi times. No place for that in Europe anymore.

You might prove your luck in the U.S. where they believe in an-eye-for-an-eye politics and similar medieval (and/or muslimic) nonsense.

@ martell

I am just stating how I feel about the subject.

I grew up around kids that everyone knew was being abused, by the priests, nuns and other forms of paedophiles. I watched as everyone was nice to the paedophiles, helping them, defending them, giving them presents, paying there bills, telling everyone that they were wonderful and giving them money every sunday.

Sit in any group of people and ask if paedophiles should be executed. Very few will say they shouldn't be. Ask the question after two or three beers and you will be in no doubt what people really think.

Also check your facts. Most countries had the death penanlty long after world war 2, well into the 60's and 70's.

It is actually the European Union who has forced most countries in Europe to remove the death penalty from the statute books.

Anyway, here in Europe, it is one area, we need to be significantly more strict in. We should be hitting paedophiles hard, instead of making excuses for them and turning a blind eye. Psychiatrists and others helping paedophiles, should be in jail with paedophiles.

Even if we can't get them executed, they need to be in jail until death at minimum.

The topic is "Few convictions for paying for sex in Sweden".

@ martell, comment 13

If someone is so pathetic they have to pay for sex, they should be laughed at, not criminalised.

The issue of prostitution, is easily dealt with.

Firstly, prostitution needs to be legalised.

All prostitutes by law, should be over 25.

All prostitutes should work in a brotel on a secure site, with full security. The brothel should be placed in an industrial park. It is a business afterall.

All brothels should be run by HSB/Bostads, renting out rooms to prostitutes as a business arrangement in an industrial setting.

All contracts should be independantly reviewed, with the review panel including at minimum a forensic accountant, emergency room surgeon, experienced emergency room nurse, police officer specialising in sex crimes, an anti-terrorist officer and a specialist in anti-trafficking.

Any hint of a madam or sex slave issue, should be used by the police to come in with all guns blazing.

Any use of anyone under the age of 25 as a prostitute should be met with all available force from the police, including lethal. The police should be exempt from prosecution for killing anyone who purchases sex from anyone under 25.

All prostitutes should be screened jointly by the police and healthcare system, for criminal records, drug abuse, mental illness, etc.

Regular health checks should be carried out every two weeks or so.

All prostitutes should pay tax, just like everyone else who is self employed.

Anyone caught trafficking, should expect that the police will have the right to kill them at any point, if they do not instantly co-operate, surrender, etc.

Anyone trafficking a child or having/seeking sex with a child, should be executed.

Anyone marrying someone under the age of consent, should be executed.

Trafficking of people, child, adult or whatever, should be treated as a terrorist offence. All traffickers fund terrorists, therefore are terrorists and should be treated accordingly.

Terrorism and related offences, should be dealt with by the military and treated as a live fire (airstrike, articllery/mortar/etc) exercise with no legal consequences for the soldiers involved, unless they are careless and fire on innocent unmarked/unpainted civilians.

"If someone is so pathetic they have to pay for sex, they should be laughed at, not criminalised."

I do not think that elderly women are pathetic for having sex with young well-built adult men, for example. If they want this, are single, and this kind of men is not attracted by them, money might convince some.

"Any hint of a madam or sex slave issue, should be used by the police to come in with all guns blazing."

S/M between two or more consenting adults is a private matter, and I think it is good that way. There are no legal reasons for any police forces in Europe to hassle these people with guns.

"The police should be exempt from prosecution for killing anyone who purchases sex from anyone under 25."

Police forces which cannot be made responsible for what they are doing belonged to the ranks of the SS the last time I heard of such.

"All traffickers fund terrorists..."

I wonder about the sources of this information. Official sources, I mean, not The Sun or stormfront.org

What you are trying to spread here is a pretty much fascist view of Europe. Move to a place where your abilities are needed and welcome, and have fun with your new buddies.

Nemesis, every sane person see that I am not supporting pedophiles. I am only supporting basic principles of the European civilization as is the trial before any major punishment.

And I can really tell you, that luckily sane people in Europe will not support giving police the right to kill for any possible reason other than protection of other life. Especially on the day, when student leaders in Prague were executed by Nazi police during demonstration in 1939, student demonstrations were violently crushed by brutal police in Athens, and again in Prague in 1989 - November 17, International students day.

@ martell

Stop trying to twist my words into a different arguement.

I am referring to a sex slave as in trafficked and there against there will.

Please point out exactly where I have mentioned S&M, as i have not and you know I have not.

A friend of mine is staying with me as she has business locally early tomorrow. Her and her husband lives a S&M lifestyle, with all the leather, tightlaced leather corsets, etc, and she has a more direct attitude to paedophiles than I have.

Two consenting adults can swing from chandaliers dressed as pink flamingo's for all I care as long as it is between two consenting adults.

I am not talking about consenting adults.

Consenting adults are free to do as they please as far as I am concerned and I will support there right to do anything that is consensual between consenting adults, no matter how weird. Although I will probably not be able to keep a straight face when they tell me about it.

I am talking about a different issue. Non consensual sex slavery.

As far as I am concerned anyone who purchases a child or adult and puts them into sex slavery in a brothel, does not deserve to exist. From your comment you seem to find that acceptable, I do not. We will have to disagree on that one.

For the record, the Waffen SS did not bust up brothels, they used them, all filled with people there against there will. Those women and children were not listened to after the war and quite often were treated worse than the Waffen SS by there local population, who should have been giving them support and understanding.

Traffickers gain massive assistance from terrorists. Most trafficking rings are connected with terrorist organisations as a funding mechanism as well as for support and logistical help. As far as I am concerned if traffickers want assistance from and to pay terrorists for help, they should be treated the same as them.

I live in Sweden in Europe and am staying here.

I have seen what happens when trafficking is ignored and the connection with terrorism is denied.

People like yourself are happy when things are forced underground and not talked about openly as it hides the subject.

People like yourself need to stop and think.

Do you really think it is possible to steal a child at gunpoint and then transport them through several countries, put them in a brothel or sell them without people armed to the teeth being involved?

You call me a fascist, most others hear call me a liberal and left wing. At least I am annoying a lot of you extremists, who hate vulernable children and adults.

I will always stand by a childs right to grow up unhindered by paedophiles and traffickers. I don't care who I annoy regarding that issue.

I will always stand by a person who is raped, molested or forced to do anything against there will.

I also always stand by people who are doing some pretty strange things (to me anyway) with other consenting adults.

Aside from you, nemesis, nobody, including the article written under the topic of "Few convictions for paying for sex in Sweden", is talking about the topic of child abuse/child exploitation in this thread as it is not a part of that topic.

You know too little, fascist extremist nemesis, and talk too much.

@ CarlBlack

Stop trying to twist the arfguement.

And stop trying to use atrocites against law abiding citizens to defend a stance on paedophiles.

@ martell

I pointed out my opinion, you and aother picked up on a section and tried to twist it.

I give as good as I get.

Now I am a fascist and an extremist. Mkaes a chage from being a liberal and a left wing nut.

As for knowing nothing, it is a matter of opinion who knows nothing.

nemesis,

You might count as a liberal left winger in your local backyard koran school, or among your buddies of the Nordiska Rikspartiet, maybe even in your Kreativistens Kyrka, but definitely not among the democratic Swedes.

Protecting children against abuse/exploitation still has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. By the way, even though I do not have any obligation to tell you and even if not the topic of this thread, I strongly support the protection of children against abuse/exploitation.

Herewith I am extending my statement to

You understand nothing, know too little, fascist extremist nemesis, and talk too much.

Sincerely Yours

@ martell

I have noticed that you resort to personal abuse, but never answer questions or rebuff points.

Says a lot for your petty little arguements.

Regarding abuse of minors, if you had actually read the comments, you would have noticed that it was not me who first mentioned the subject. Selective reading and selective commenting is not a good attack on me as I will notice and take you to task for it.

As for the Koran. I do not subscribe to any of the judeo-christian-islamic-satanist cults that have come to Europe from the middle east. I have no need for a sky god as a crutch to support me as I can think for myself.

@Nemesis

It is funny how you cry about people resorting to personal abuse and yet you have posted comments like "Most likely you find the rpesent situation created by morons like Beatrice Ask to be suitable for you."

Is that your best explanation of why under you "grand plan" 18 to 24 year olds do not deserve the same level of safety that 25+ get?

Do you seriously believe that girls or guys for that matter choose prostitution as a career choice and will wait until they turn 25? You clearly have no idea about this topic beyond what you read in sensationalised articles in "tabloids".

I think that the problem with any possible legalization of prostitution in Sweden will be Sweden's main problem in general: over-regulation. This is a country where the alcohol policy has created a climate where illegally smuggled alcohol is widely available and tolerated. If prostitution is legalized it will probably be so over-regulated that it might not take away enough business from the streets and then the moralists in Stockholm would claim it's all a big failure.

I do think it needs to be regulated. I'm not arguing for simply turning a blind eye to prostitution by legalizing it but no regulating it. I think there need to be standard protocols for legal brothels/solitary sex-workers such as regular health checks, psychological care, etc. They should charge and pay taxes and receive work benefits like everyone else with a job.

When it comes to modern Swedish prejudices/visions of themselves, there is a well-established network of institutes and bureaucracy designed to defend those prejudices and make sure only one way of solving a problem is allowed. This is what happened with Swedish drug policy, for instance Stockholm insanely refusing to implement needle-exchange programs despite the success of these programs in the rest of Europe and even in Malmö. But since harm-reduction is seen as incompatible with Sweden's abstinence-only-and-at-ALL-costs drug policy, it just won't be tolerated in Stockholm.

Try legalizing it and getting some of those people on sickness benefits off their backs and well....back on their backs...

They say that a healthy sex life stimulates happiness. What better way then to get people employed who have been sick for some time.....if they don't feel f*&cked now they surely will after their new profession.

Let company owners give their employees a tax write off for taking that full release massage.

The economy might be f%*cked but here we have a chance to f$^k our way out of the recession.

Think of all the money Swedes spend going to Germany, Thailand and Denmark when their is an ample supply of labor here for the positions......

Embracing the oldest profession in the world and promoting it would encourage sex tourism and stir a great deal of buzz about the country.....beauty is a commodity like anything else and Sweden is not short beautiful people. Who would not want to F*&k a Swede?...could be the campaign slogan.

As a former manager in the sex industry --yes I am a f*&king expert ;-) I know the business, human nature, and the dangers that arise when it has to go underground and the economy that flourishes when it is well regulated and the human tragedies that happen when it is not....

This has been a nice discussion

@ Gwrhyr, Leprechaun .se and krigeren

You are the only commentators on this thread that make any sense to me.

@ Nemesis:

surprisingly I agree with you that comments of Gwrhyr and krigeren makes sense.

And I am not twisting anything you say, I am just saying that your suggestion to give police or army right to kill for some specific kind of crime is a monstrous idea and very easily abusable. The police does not carry out executions in a civilized country and any use of weapon by police must always undergo investigation.

@ carlblack,

I grew up surrounded by the priests, nuns and other forms of paedophile. I have seen the damage those vermin do.

If you want, I can phone home and possibly arrange for you to meet some people who were abused as kids face to face from my old neighbourhood.

I wonder what your words would be in a closed room with them face to face?

What do you think should be done with paedophiles?

A. understand them and give them the comfort of a psychiatrist.

B jail them for a month or year.

C. Jail them until death.

D. kill them

To me, only the later two options are acceptable. The minimum I accept is jail until death. As far as I am concerned anyone abusing a child is not human and should be killed upon sight.

That is my personal opinion and I stand by it.

In Europe there is no death sentence, so I would accept jail until death, with zero chance of parole.

They are not curable. They get worse over time. They can not be allowed to remain in society. Paedophiles destroy life.

Childrens rights should come before any rights of a paedophile.

A child should be allowed to grow up, without the fear of them being molested hanging over them.

That is my personal opinion.

@Nemisis

I am with you on the dangers of paedophiles. In practice within Europe, a life sentence without parole is not likely to happen, the psychologists are going to stick their oar in and say that " the poor man was abused himself and that makes him an abuser......" etc etc.

The fact is that a paedophile will never be cured. Some accept that themselves, I know of one paedophiles who killed a young boy and was sent to a secure mental institution "At her majesties pleasure". After 30 years, the psychologists thought he was ready to be released. He refused saying that he was afraid that the urges would come back

What should be done as a matter of course to any convicted paedophile, is castration.

With regard to prostitution, look at Amsterdam. Well regulated, safe, and all the girls pay taxes which along with the sex tourism to the 'balletjes' boost the cities income

@ Rick Methven

I agree.

The psychologists, psychiatrists and sociologists appear hold some of those people in high regard. Those three professions, if they can be called that needed overhauled from top to bottom.

I have sat in court as the psychiatrists, psychologists and social workers have made excuses for the paedophiles.I consider them as guilty.

I am not so sure Amsterdam is a good example of regulated prostitution. There is still quite a few trafficked women there.

I think prostitution should be legalised and think it is pointless to keep it illegal, particularly since every single politician seems to visit them.

The traffickers are what worry me. A way needs to be found to get the prostitutes to safely report traffickers to the police, so they can get on top of it.

Hitting traffickers, would hit some of the funding to organised crime and terrorists, which would benefit all of society.

Once prostitution is seperated from trafficking, the entire industry can be better organised and the workers better cared for.

Prostitution is a profession, no matter how one looks at it.

Once legal, prostitution can form official representative bodies, get ISO certifications, create professional qualifications, send representatives to industrial bodies and behave as the large industry it is, then it should improve the workplace for its workers.

If Lawyers can be organised as trade groups and recognised there is no excuse for recognising representative groups for prostitutes.

Regarding the tax base. Making prostitution legal, would instantly reduce the size of the black market and directly add to the GNP of the country. That instantly adds to the tax base of the country.

Also another group would also emerge winnners in this. people who design websites, online shops, market services and do illustraion work would also be getting more legal instead of black work. That would also add to the tax base.

Also it free's up police officers to tackle serious crime. If the police built up a good relationship with any prostitute representantive group, that could also be a conduit for the police to recieve information, if handled correctly.

The only down side to this is a the religeous right, because it will remove there thrill of seeking out something illegal and extreme feminists as they will not have a group of women to attack.