Swedes positive about immigration: poll

Polls can be rigged to give the answer the government wishes, we saw that in Britain on a regular basis.

I wouldonly believe the poll I conducted myself amongst people in my town, nothing else !!

Ask yourselves, why are the results of this poll being made public and why just now ?? and you will find that there will be a new policy on Immigrants announced, the Poll is to soften us up, that's all.

I think people give and answer based on who is conducting the poll. What they say and think in private just might be something else.

The big problem with Sweden is that Swedes don't even have the right understanding about what can be considered as positive with immigration. The immigration should be considered positive when immigrants have the equal rights compare to the natives.

As an example, UK can be considered a positive place for immigration. You can find immigrants in all the level of social structures from top to down, poor and supper rich immigrants! Immigrants with key roles in politics, industries, education, medias, anywhere. However, immigration in Sweden is concentrated mostly in lower class, even immigrants with high education have very low chance to higher positions according to Swedish research. Probably in this poll, Swedes think immigration is positive because they brought Kebab and Pizza to Sweden. I mean Swedes don't have a clue what is positive or negative!

How British rate themselves here, Immigrants or Locals ??

As in every pole, the way the question is asked is the key.

"For the most part, has immigration been good for Sweden?"

The question itself has a qualifier("for the most part"), which hedges the question, and allows the respondent to hedge his/her answer.

A more direct question such as, "Is immigration good for Sweden?" may have gotten a completely different answer.

The poll also does not distinguish between economic immigrants(people coming to Sweden to work), and immigrants seeking asylum for political reasons. It is well recognized that citizens of any country are much more willing to accept immigrants who add economically to their new country. Sweden has always had a mixture of economic and political immigrants. The recent surge in political immigrants is a problem, and this pole does not specifically address this issue.

The poll was rigged to elicit affirmative answers.

Good point Krrodman, obviously you're a student of statistical methods.

I grew up in Africa (and subsequently work on Africa related issues), have a Swedish mother and English father. A few points:

- historically, we are all (im)migrants in Europe (even medel Swensons). The birthplace of humanity is Africa and there are MANY cultural, mathematical and scientific developments originating from that continent (including the binary code, which underpins IT technology which you are using to read this message). See, for example, Ron Eglash on African fractals:

http://www.rpi.edu/~eglash/eglash.dir/afractal/afractal.htm

- most scientific and mathematical developments actually originate from the Arabic world (eg Ibn al Haytham) and the only thing we in the West have excelled at is a form of reductionist thinking originating from Descartes and Adam Smith, which (in just a few hundred years) has squandered our natural resources and wreaked havoc on the natural world (eg climate change) while enslaving/dominating Africans, Latin Americans and other native peoples in the process. In contrast most Africans have been living in harmony with their environment for millenia.

- Very few scientific developments actually originate from Sweden. (Like the Japanese, Swedes are quite good at copying developments from overseas) Probably Sweden's major contribution to science being that Queen Christina killed Sweden's most famous immigrant Rene Descartes (who died of pneumonia mid winter up here in Sweden because Queen Christina forced him to get up early in the morning to teach her science!)

Sweden needs immigrants because you have an ageing population. Without the immigrants (who keep the old peoples homes and homehelp running) Swedish old people would die. Immigrants also do a lot of 'dirty' jobs that Swedish people are unwilling to do themselves. In my my experience, I've found the immigrants to be very hard working and decent and friendly. Perhaps a little less prejudice and a slightly more intelligent and sophisticated debate might be in order!

Mike

@Mike

You make some very important points, but miss on what I consider to be a very critical issue.

Western culture for the last 500+ years has attempted to "conquer" the natural world. I use the word "conquer" for both its good and bad connotations. Obviously, when western Europe enslaves peoples, or devours resources, the destruction is obvious for all to see.

I submit to you that the same need to "conquer" has benefited the entire world. The list is almost endless of the positive implications of western culture. The progress in science, technology, medicine, transportation, etc etc is all derived from the desire to "conquer" the natural world.

I also submit to you that the progress in philosophy that allows for mutual respect of all peoples derives from an increase in the universal standard of living which started in western Europe. The enlightenment is a western European construct that to this day is not shared or accepted by most of the world. The mere fact that we are having this conversation is a testament to western culture. Freedom of expression is not accepted in most of the world.

I am not an apologist for western culture. That said, while it is easy to criticize western culture for its mistakes and misdeeds, it is equally easy, and altogether wrong, to ignore the universal positives that derive from western Europe.

Cheers

Subsaharan Africa is a dump. Who cares if some ape tended to walk on 2 legs there millions of years ago and started 'civilization'. It wont be long before the wildlife, lakes, rainforest will all be gone as desertification of the entire contenent takes place, and its overrun with aid infested pot bellied babies.

As far as immigration, its like the US, certain groups come in and do the physical labor, Indians and Asians come to do the mental labor, as locals are too lazy to work hard or study hard. It becomes quite fascinating to see how cultures settle when they are mixed. To see which cultures value education and success, which value family (in the more the better) and devotion to religion, and which value the accumulation of worthless shiny objects.

The question should have been asked differently because not all immigrants are equal.

If they had asked if European immigration to Sweden had been beneficial the number of 'Yes' votes would have probably been much higher.

If they had asked if African, Mid-East, or South Asian immigration had been beneficial to Sweden the numbers would have probably been much lower.

Regarding African inventors, if there were so many of them then why isn't Africa the current leader in Science?

Why are they so far behind the West and the East?

Is it possible that the African inventors of the past were actually Europeans and Asians living in Africa?

Look at the statue of the architect of the Great Pyramid of Giza. His features don't look African.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemiunu

Heh.

Japan is one of the most innovative countries in the world.

A people and/or society that cannot sustain its own population - let alone grow it - is by definition dysfunctional and has sentenced itself to extinction. Don't expect the theory of evolution to make any exceptions for this sort of cultural capitulation and nihilism. Healthy things grow. Sick things wither and die.

Educated immigrants is what Sweden needs.

Things have changed alot since 1986 ( when I arrived here from South Africa ) and getting a well paid job is much easier.

One just has to refuse to be downgraded.

@ Roy E. So well put that it is worth repeating.

A people and/or society that cannot sustain its own population - let alone grow it - is by definition dysfunctional and has sentenced itself to extinction. Don't expect the theory of evolution to make any exceptions for this sort of cultural capitulation and nihilism. Healthy things grow. Sick things wither and die.

The only aditional thing that would be nice would be for someone in the Swedish Governement from 20 years ago to step out and admit that they saw the impending decrease in population and decided on immigration as a corrective action. They chose not to spend money and encourage internal population growth. The new path is not neccessarily bad but the oppertunity cost is a different Swedish culture.

Joe posted.:-The only aditional thing that would be nice would be for someone in the Swedish Governement from 20 years ago to step out and admit that they saw the impending decrease in population and decided on immigration as a corrective action. They chose not to spend money and encourage internal population growth. The new path is not neccessarily bad but the oppertunity cost is a different Swedish culture. ""

I could say exactly the same thing for Britain ! also, the EU gave quotas to each EU country to fill, the countries Had to let Immigrants in to meet these quotas.

They told us that Immigrants were needed to do the dirty jobs but in reality they would not pay a good salary to British people to do the dirty jobs so they tried to get immigrants at half the price to do the work.

The reason for the decline of birthrate in the ethnic Swedish population is the mass Immigration, just as the reason for the decline of ethnic British birthrate is mass Immigration.

It's very simple, too many Immigrants and not enough houses, the house price rises and you find that married women have to get a job and put off starting a family because they need 2 incomes to pay the Mortgage.

In the UK, the Immigrants always get free housing if they say they cannot find a job, they get a weekly cash allowance, they get free education for their children, free National Health treatment, free Televisions if they are classed as Asylum Seekers and so much free Telephone per month.

Some Kosovar Asylum Seekers even got used cars bought for them !.

So you can see, they start breeding and for every extra child they get increased Family Allowance, meanwhile indiginous people have to think very hard about starting a Family and how many children they plan to have.

That's what we should be asking our Politicians to explain, why did they put foreigners before their own people ??

Did you know that the EU has a so-called ,' slush fund', of half a Billion Euros to pay bribes to Politicians who follow EU policies?

Ask your Politicians who propose more Immigration, just how much money they are getting , ' under the table' ??

I think the first comment from Hagen was pretty much spot on.

These polls are very fickle, and easily engineered if desired and this latest one flies in the face of previous polls, like the one below published on this very site and the one below that.

Why is that, one has to wonder?

"50% of all Swedes want a more restrictive immigration policy, compared to only 24% who think that it would be a bad idea. Supporters of the Green Party, traditionally the most pro-immigration of Sweden's political parties, have changed their views most dramatically since last year, with 35% now calling for tighter controls…

63% of Moderate Party supporters, the most sceptical group, want Sweden to accept fewer refugees, compared with 49% of Social Democratic Party supporters."

http://www.thelocal.se/212/

"Public sentiment may be turning against immigrants. Sifo, a market research firm, released a poll in July 2000 that found that 54 percent of Swedes believed there were too many foreigners in Sweden, up from 46 percent in 1999.

Respondents said that foreigners committed a disproportionate amount of crime and caused problems in schools. Swedish Prime Minister Goran Persson in an interview on February 6, 2000 said that "It's clear that at certain times we had too much immigration and large parts of our immigration policies were badly handled."

http://migration.ucdavis.edu/MN/more.php?id=2227_0_5_0

One troll'scomment has allowed this to become a debate about Africa. It doesn't take a genius to see that Africa is real trouble. Poverty and corruption in the south and terrorists to the north. Nuff said on that.

As far as this poll is concerned....many posters here have pointed out its flaws and those concerns are real and valid. However, even if this poll was conducted in a completely fair manner, only about half of Swedes (56%) think that immigration has been a positive. The other half feels that it was negative or cannot say that it has been a positive. If half of the population feels that immigration has had a negative affect on the country (which it obviously has), then it sounds like people have a real problem with it.

Of course, when you figure in the Swedish govt's attempts to sell "multiculturalism" as a positive thing to its people along with the Swedish media's policy of covering up immigrant (Middle Eastern/African) crime by not releasing ethnicity or names in their reports, then the fact that only half of Swedes still look at immigration as a negative shows everyone that this social experiment the left is trying to pull off here is NOT WORKING.

I agree the poll was probably artificial if the question was asked in that way. It doesn't seem sensible to go out and conduct a poll if you can't formulate a black or white question, when the only answer you can give the question is yes or no.

I also think that in general Swedes are not so anti immigration as it may appear. I've had discussions with people who welcome SD rising and getting so much support, even though they don't welcome it or when challenging the immigration fobia, they will say that they don't have a problem with immigration in general. Instead it is some group they target they hate against, like muslims who come from a culture which is alien to Swedes. I think it is very easy to target them, because many of them have an extremely hard time to integrate into Swedish society and end up on the debit side of the welfare state and most Swedes cannot see how they can ever cross over to the credit side. In becoming isolated, in an otherwise cold and inhospitable country (climate and culture) it is not difficult to see that fundamentalism is springing up. If you are part of a religion which is also a political movement, then in hard time the political movement gain the upper hand.

I think the absolutely best way forward is to remove the social welfare state from immigrants, cut taxes drastically so that people can get jobs and start contributing to society. It's the only way to avoid letting this conflict run out of hands. Incumbent politicians however aren't getting that message, hence the SD support numbers.

Regarding Africa. Noone knows the origins geographically of mankind. Noone can prove anything. The reason they have such success picking up pre-man in eastern Africa is because it was a nice swamp which preserved the remains. Just compare it to the dinosaur debate. For decades they believed T-Rex was the King, but since then they have found much bigger ones elsewhere. My guess is that the origin of mankind is somewhere which is now deep underwater in the indian ocean. And water has probably erased any traces left so nothing can be proven about that neither.

Technology will make us all redundant the same in the end

I don´t trust these surveys, especially when conducted by the likes of sifo.

Like it or not, the immigrants will be needed in this country - as well as in most western European countries - however, since it was also revealed in the news on the very same day that the number of people who have reached the age of 100 in Sweden today is 1,500, which is 10 times as many as 40 years ago.

The immigrants will be needed in the workforce to, among other things, take care of the elderly, since most people here appear not to have the time nor the will to take care of their own parents in their old age.

""The immigrants will be needed in the workforce to, among other things, take care of the elderly, since most people here appear not to have the time nor the will to take care of their own parents in their old age. ""

They used tha very same argument in Holland, that Immigrants will be necessary to take care of the Elderly Dutch, they allowed tens of thousands of North Africans to come to Holland but Guess What ? these people have absolutely NO interest in looking after Elderly Dutch people.

So the Dutch had to form a new policy, the Elderly stay in their own homes as long as possible and somebody visits them daily and they get food brought to them etc. The Elderly go to State homes when they are absolutely incapable of looking after themselves.

All well and good, the Elderly are more happy in their own homes but the fools who make the policies never considered that !!

Meanwhile there is a rapidly growing bunch of North Africans living in Holland who feature prominently on TV Crime Programmes, yet seem never to be able to get a job !!.

Quite right Hagen.

It is all utter rot that we need immigrants to "look after us" or "pay our pensions" - they have absolutely no interest whatsoever in doing so and are frequently imported in enmasse to fill low skilled jobs for lower wages that natives were / could / should have been doing for a fair wage and are therefore contributing to the erosion of standards rather then adding to them, and of course, the more typical scenario is that these immigrants end up on benefits themselves draining the system rather then feeding it in any case.

In the UK model that has / is being adopted Europe wide, entire families are entitled to follow the principle immigrant and so they have countless old people claiming pensions and medical insurance for decades that they have never paid into and never will, along with countless children soaking up funds in benefits, education and medical care whilst the principle immigrant, if he is even working at all could not possibly pay enough tax to cover just his own family, let alone any shortfalls for the natives.

And we need not mention the criminal statistics in western countries that show that even just 5% of non-western immigration translates into the massively disproportionate domination of the crime rates of the worst crimes in society.

It is all just snake oil salesmanship by our Marxist overlords to justify the mass immigration of alien peoples into our countries to the scale of native replacement within decades.

To be sure other tricks are used too: In post colonial countries guilt is a good tactic; in Germany its Nazi past is used to guilt them; the deliberate corruption of 1951 UN Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees is used too by allowing masses of asylum seekers under that convention when that convention clearly defines them as bogus because they should have claimed asylum in the first safe bordering country - so unless the asylum seeker comes from Norway, Finland or Denmark, they are not legal.

These tricks are used in every western county along with the ruthless Marxist control device of hate labels and serious consequences thereof for all dissenters, with 'racist' being the favourite device.

So whilst all western countries are flooded with aliens and alien cultures and will see their indigenous populations becomes minorities in their own homelands in decades, we do not see the reverse flow to any second or third world countries.

The end result then is obvious: We shall have nowhere to call our own, and we shall not be the masters of our destinies; that role will be left to the people we are now financing to replace us.

@viking.

your immigration office policy is quite different from what swedish people think. I have done my master studies here in Sweden and now I am a Ph.D student and also working at a company. The immigration office refused to give me a work visa and they said I have to go for a student visa! The big difference for me was that the years you are in sweden on a student visa are counted nothing but if you work here 4 years having a work visa then you can apply for a permanent residence permit. Even though I explained my case and everything, they refused a work permit for me deliberately and now each year I have to renew my student visa( I am also a tax payer though)

While on the other hand, asylum cases and refugees have a lot easier way. One end result is that majorly those with lower education enter sweden easier and then swedish people go around and complain that immigrants are all like this and that.

Add to it that, it is a lot harder for an immigrant to get jobs, then immigrants sink down and down in the society and guess what you think even worse of them.

Anyway, I do not want to make any judgments about immigrants in positive or negative way, just want to point out other aspects that you should consider.

To be honest personally sometimes I regret why I chose Sweden, if I had gone to Canada or Denmark, things were pretty straight forward and I would not have these worries that I have now each year.

Just imagine, I have been here a few years and will be about 3 more years for my phd studies, and during these years have learned about the environment in sweden and also working on my swedish language, besides knowing two other languages, and things like that. So theoretically I should be a good candidate and have less problems but in reality it is different.

Also one fact which is very easily neglected in discussions about immigration for example is that a big amount of publications and projects coming out of swedish universities are done by foreign students which has helped alot with competition of swedish universities with american ones and also across europe. No need to say that the result of those are also applied by different companies in Sweden for needs of ordinary people.

So look at both sides when judging about immigration.

FireBoy,

-"your immigration office policy is quite different from what swedish people think"-

Because of your poor English it is not clear what you are trying to convey here, but let's be absolutely clear: You do not speak for the Swedish people nor do you have any idea in reality what the Swedish people think.

Your story is pathetic whining about a country that has allowed you entry and education but hasn't bent entirely to your will. To be honest I too wish you had picked another country. You quite obviously do not like mine and hold no loyalty towards it and so nothing good will come from your presence here.

Does Sweden need you and your moaning? Of course not.

Does Sweden need so-called asylum seekers who break the 1951 UN Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees by refusing to claim asylum in the first safe bordering courtry? No, of course not. They are illegal immigrants and no more.

Does Sweden really need economic immigrant to "look after us" and fill our "pensions gap" and "population shortfall"? Of course not, for all the reasons in my last post and the common sense fact that it has never needed it before in its history. A countries population is organic.

Every word of my last comment is true.

This is the truth about immigration and more and more people are starting to wake up to it because more and more people are now personally experiencing the reality of it and not the Marxist propaganda version - hence the reason ever draconian legislation is introduced to enforce so-called multi-culturism and suppress any public dissent against it.

Totalitarian rule, as in Tito's Yugoslavia, is the only way to force some kind of repressed harmony from balkanisation.

And we are heading to totalitarianism rapidly.

@Fireboy, & @viking

You make some good points. The immigration policy needs to be revamped. Immigration should be eased for those applying from countries with similar cultural & religous values.

The best hope will be that the current Iraqi immigrants as previously stated on the posts are not Muslim but Christian. Whether the cultural influence is a war or a matter of undercurrent influence...the decisivenes of action now will dictate how quickly and to what degree the culture changes.

Does Sweden release the percentage of middle east and african kids in pre-school? I think most would be surprised by the percentage.

My goal with my immigration posts is to push for additional funding for Swedes to have more kids.

I hope Immigration will be on the basis of skill not for the false and intentional asylum seekers !!! Just like north America !!

I feel and see all around that Sweden is getting to be a free home for the Islamic extremists !!

They should be care full in their Immigration policy !!

Good Luck Sweden !!!

Immigration has destroyed all of Europe. May be too late. Again, what has happened to the Vikings? You are being subdued year by year. Islam will enslave you in time.

Africa is a cesspool. 95% of all inventions have originated from Europe and North America. Facts are facts. The rest from China/Asia and India.

Louie Farrakhan and the nutty Nation of Islam claim white folks "stole" all the technology and advances from Africa. Not one shred of evidence to support such nonsense. Not all cultures are equal.

To have migrants into the country,U need to have some STRICT RULES:

1.The people have to be peaceful by nature

2.The people have to be intelligent

3.The people need to be hard working and enterprising

If u have these kind of people migrating to ur country,n u hav rules that facilitate that:

1.Every1 is happy

2.The country grows economically

3. There is stability n certain degree of cultural exchange between the two set of people

The problem in Sweden,is multi-fold:

1.Swedes live in cold environs,which creates less conducive brain functionality to trust anybody bt a small group of people

2.The Immis that come in have been hand-picked in such a way,that they serve the society in the lower-echelons,n r never meant to rise

3.The immis that come-in r from places that have been in severe stress fr centuries, n peace or stable society is a luxury....n hav no real background fr innovation....bcos they hav lived in conservative environs, or places where food,water n happiness r a luxury.

The biggest issue in these environ...is to fight fr trivial issues...n hence non-peaceful

In sweden, people from peaceful places r nt invited...bt people from war-ravaged places come

People frm peaceful n enriching tropical countries,India,Japan,New Zealand etc. hardly form part of the society.

People in these regions r peaceful contributing n in general intelligent n enterprising.

Instead,u hav war-ravaged, bombed individuals ,who already hav grudges on Western world invited.

U will bound to face issues.

Samuel:

Immigrants and natives must also be able to spell right. If any Swede is caught misspelling he should be deported to Thailand.

Hey people, there are reasons for migration, some for relocation with loved ones, for refugee reasons, for education and last but not the least employment opportunities. We should not put all migrants from Africa into the refugee category. Alot of migrants from Africa falls in categories other than refugees and, I am sure most of time have at least a good university education. There are cities in Africa that looks like cities in Europe and most western world, good school, employment opportunities, natural resources the western world needs and a lot more, please refer to pictures of major cities in Africa in search engines and see what Africa looks like. The media mostly report the negative part of africa which is very wrong from my opinion. I am an african and very proud to be an African, we are all created by God and have the right to live and make the world a better place without prejudice, racism and discrimination.

The whole history of humanity globally is one of migration (of people, language, culture, technology, etc). The Moors migrated to Spain and brought with them Al-Gebra, binary code, etc, etc. The Flemish and French migrated to Sweden and brought with them glassblowing, your civil service and many of the words in the current Swedish language! Lutheranism (the Swedish state religion) was imported by invanders from Germany. The Swedes migrated to north America to flee famine and starvation and were welcomed there. Sweden (like other countries) is part of a global economy the food you buy in your shops, the wine you drink, the movies you watch, the tvs and computers you watch them on, the medicine in your hospitals (and, as in the UK, many of the nurses and doctors who run those hospitals and old peoples home) come from outside! Perhaps the Swedish nationalists would like to turn back to clock to some imagined perfect past where you all herded reindeer and lived in tents and carved rune stones! No? Then come into the 21st century like the rest of the world and accept that migration is a normal part of human life for all countries, that people migrate because they want to work and try to help these immigrants to integrate, find work and make a contribution to society (which, I think, is what they mostly want to do) rather than stigmatise/demonise them!

Mike

Good one Nuskin, write more pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

@VikingWarrior: Fireboy's English is perfectly fine. Also, neither you nor Fireboy speak for the Swedish people, so please get down off your high horse.

Best regards,

A Swede

Yes, you write more too Benomax. I think Swedes could learn a lot from Africans. Whenever I've visited Africa I've always been really impressed by how kind and hospitable and welcoming people are to outsiders... inviting you into their homes to eat, etc, etc, with no expectation of 'payment'. Also Africans still look after their old folk (which seems to have been forgotten up here). In contrast I'm really ASHAMED to be (half) Swedish the way the invanders are treated up here. My own personal view (having grown up in Africa) is that up here we're materially rich and socially/culturally poor up here and Africans are culturally/socially rich and materially poor. So perhaps we could learn something from you guys (on how to be human)!

Mike

Any person with the slightest understanding of economic realties will realize that Sweden, along with all her European neighbors, will need a fair amount of immigration to sustain their futures. I am pro-immigration. Structured, well thought out immigration, based on need, with a very small portion reserved for economic hardship cases. There is another story in today's edition describing five (or more) Afghans "smuggled" into Sweden. Let them serve as a prototype for the kind immigration Sweden must NOT engage in. If they are allowed to remain based on, probably spurious claims, they will quickly become wardens of the Swedish taxpayer, and will, likely, never make a meaningful contribution to society. I'm sure Kharzai will happily accept these productive young men back into his fold. They are already in violation of Swedish Law!

Nice going Local. Way to edit my post!

All I asked was if Africa was so advanced why is it not a player on the world stage, politically or economically.

You leave Nuskin's complete propagandist comment about the advances made by Africa and the Arabic world, but you remove completely legitimate questions like mine to a racist idiot like Advocator. I guess tough questions need to be ignored in Liberal utopia.

Viking Warrior posted.:-

" To be sure other tricks are used too: In post colonial countries guilt is a good tactic; in Germany its Nazi past is used to guilt them;"

I visit Germany for my job and I hear that normal Germans are really sick of their government being weak regarding Immigration.

It's true, whenever somebody mention Immigrants, you will find the Nazi Era raised to keep them quiet, so now you have a situation in a supposedly, ' Land of free speech' , when the populace is frightened to say what they really think.

Good thing they're positive about it, because the leftist government is going to ram it down their throat. What is important to them is what Marx wrote not what Swedes want.

Nuskin,

Binary code is a modern convention. I think you mean binary numeral system.

However, again you are wrong. The origins are Indian (Pingala) not Moorish.

Bender B Rodriquez,

1) His English is appalling and if you think its fine then so is your comprehension

2) I never claimed to speak for the Swedish people, fireboy did

3) Have you got anything of actual substance to contribute, or just unsolicited personal attacks?

4) Get off your high horse

Hagen,

Yes indeed, the situation in Germany is very dire as it has absorbed more non-western immigrants then Sweden. People seem to forget that this issue is not isolated to Sweden; the same lies, games and tactics are being used all over the western world to force mass non-western immigration.

A recurring feature across Europe that have allowed non-western immigrant populations to reach at least 5% is the massive increase in crime and the massive and disproportionate domination of the crime rate by non-western immigrants.

Another recurring feature is the war against the authorities; primarily the police but often the ambulance and fire crews too.

You can see the problem in Germany for yourself from the news report in the video below:

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/08/there-are-no-laws-to-stop-us-we-are-our.html

The news report below shows the serious problems we already face here in Sweden.

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/11/situation-in-malm.html

These problems exist all over Europe now but most notably France, Denmark, Germany and Sweden.

To continue with this is madness.

In UK we also have this problem. In NL, there is an intelligent man called Geert Wilders. In UK, we still wait for somebody like that.

UK does not have problem with minorities, eg Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Jews, Swedes... The problem is Islamic. So this is not a racist statement. Many difernt nationalities are Islamic, and they are becoming increasingly radicalised and violent.

My question to the Swedes is - when your coutnry has so few Jews or Israelis, and so much crime and rape is carreid out by Islamic and arab immigrants, why are you deflecting all of the world's troubles to Israel? Soon you will be in the same situation, where you are at risk of becoming a minority and the Islamic population a majority. If you surrender, then you become slaves. If you defend yourselves, you become "zionists". Please do not focus on Israel,as your problem is at home.

eddie UK,

I have lived in the UK friend and I can tell you that you are wrong about there being no "problem with minorities" - the Afro-Caribbean minority for instance officially comprise just 2.2% of the population but dominate the most serious crime rates, especially in the capital London:

In the UK it was leaked that 73% of those charged with knife crime were non-white (whist the white victims made up the largest group) Over 70 per cent of London's gun suspects were black, as were 50 per cent of the victims white. In 80% of gang rape cases, the defendants were black; in 92% of gang rape cases the offenders are non-white. There are five times more young blacks in prison then whites.

Shocking as these figures are, it also shows an entirely 'new' crime that has been brought to the west of gang rape. This crime was virtually unheard of in the UK even just 25 years ago.

Due to link limitations, just two of the links to the above statistics, both relating to gang rape are below.

http://www.newstatesman.com/199811200011

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23764662-third-of-gang-rape-victims-are-aged-under-15-and-attacks-are-increasing.do

All of this from just one minority group officially at just 2.2% of the population?!

To continue is madness.

Mr Viking

I didnt want to mention that specific group - it is no longer a minority and I am not racist. But there is a serious problem, which needs to be dealt with.

My point, rather, is that there are many diverse minorities which have little crime and do not really pose a threat to British society. Hence, the Chinese have very little involvement in crime, unless it is at the level of their own organised crime - but that could apply to italians, Irish etc.

Indian and Sikh immigrants in UK are generally much more peaceful than Islamics.

Black youths have a gang culture which needs to be crushed by the Police or the military - which is better than fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan.

The point i am making is that recognizing crime and evil intent of certain groups is not racist per se. It is honest. If a group has a collective threat to society, it should be stopped. The question is, whether this discussion is about white supremacism (which i am not) or about simple sanity and prevention of dhimmitude, which will happen with the demographic timebomb.

Thats UK statistic about crime rate but, how many of these minorities commit crimes here in Sweden? This is Sweden so lets talk about Sweden, any statistic? Well if non then stop castigating a set minority in Sweden but, rather think of a way of moving Sweden forward.

@benomax

The statistics for ethnic crime in Sweden are not readily available because the Swedes are too politically correct to collect or publish them.

In every other country for which ethnic crime statistics are available non-white and non-East-Asian crime is higher than the host population.

It's unlikely that the situation in Sweden would be any different.

Ethnicity of offenders according to the British Crime Survey:

Mugging: white 55% • black 31%, (~18 times as many muggings per capita as whites.)

Wounding: white 82% • black 6%, (~2.4 times as many woundings per capita as whites)

Assault: white 87% • black 5% (~2.2 times as many assaults per capita as whites)

Racially motivated Incidents: white 34% • black 30% (~28 times as many racially motivated incidents per capita as whites.)

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hors223.pdf (tables 2.3 and A3.2)

Dutch prison population:

White Dutch: 50% of prison population

Surinamese: 11% (1.7% of overall population) [black]

Moroccan: 8% (1.3% of overall population)

Turkish: 5% (1.6% of overall population)

Antillian: 7% (0.6% of overall population) [black]

http://www.keithwilmot.com/ComparativeCJMinoritiesCrimeCriminalJustice.ppt

United States Prison Population:

Black: 40% (12.8% of overall population)

Hispanic: 19% (14.4% of overall population)

White: 36% (66.9% of overall population)

American Indian: 1% (0.2% of overall population)

Asian: 1% (4.3% of overall population)

ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/pji02pr.htm

eddie UK,

The official figure for the Afro-Caribbean population in the UK is 2.2% so they are still very much a minority if you believe that figure.

If you don't believe that figure then you must accept that your government lies to you about matters of immigration and surely must ask the question why; either ways, even if that figure is fictitious, the Afro-Caribbean population will still be very much a minority at the moment and their impact on crime will be still be massively, hugely disproportionate.

Of course this is not 'racist' to point out: These are facts. Anyone who calls someone a 'racist' for telling the truth has their own pernicious agenda.

benomax,

Sure.

You really don't have a clue of the reality do you? It's shocking really. Especially as you are so aggressive in your comment too. Watch the video I linked to above first and then read the facts below and realise all of this comes from just a population of just 5% of non-western immigrants.

I'll even go one better for you and give you the reality of non-western immigrant's massive and hugely disproportionate impact on crime not just in Sweden, but in all of Scandinavia:

In Denmark non-whites committed 68% of all rapes, and it was revealed that non-whites were over-represented in all crime by an average of 46% and in Copenhagen 47.5% of prisoners on remand for serious crimes were non-white. In Norway it was found that two out of three charged with rape in Oslo were non-white and that every case of aggravated sexual assault ending in rape over the past three years was committed by non-white immigrants, whilst in Sweden it as found that a rapist was four times more likely to have been born abroad - with Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominating the group of rape suspects and that non-whites were responsible for 25% of all crime in Sweden.

All of the links for these statistics can be found on a previous posts here on The Local, due to link restrictions I will use the allotted two for more anecdotal evidence, but I can quite easily post the source links for all the above two by two if anyone disputes them.

Just as gang rape was virtually unheard of in Northern Europe just 20-25 years ago but has now become commonplace, so too has rape in general; in fact since Sweden started its mass immigration programme, the cases of rape have quadrupled and the cases of the rape of children - that is under 15 year olds - is SIX- 6 - times higher, then it was 20 years ago.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article326023.ab

The fantastic absurdity of the PC mindset and the acknowledgment of where it will all lead can be gathered by the statement of Jens Orback, the then Swedish Immigration Minster:

"We must be open and tolerant towards Islam and Muslims because when we become a minority, they will be so towards us."

http://www.globalpolitician.com/23342-sweden

To continue with all of this is madness.

Viking, not disagreeing with you - and it is a difficult problem, as Afro carribeans have been in UK for 50 years, and it is not ideological crime. My personal answer would be to crush the armed gangs, and deport violent criminals to origins of their grandparents.

But the problem in Eurabia is even bigger. There is free immigration from ME and Africa. These groups have one thing in common - Islam.

My question was, if Sweden has these problems, eg rape, violence, Malmo becoming a swedish Gaza - why is Sweden obsessed with Israel? Will the left wing Swedish government accept independent Islamic republic in Sweden, with Malmo as its capital? And if they do not, then why do they suggest that Jerusalem becomes the capital of palestine?

The answers to your questions Eddie are all above; yes Sweden has had an explosion in rapes and the rape of children over the past 20 years and the comment of former immigration minister Jens Orback above reveals the disgusting official position on the inevitable (at the current rate and government) Islamification of Sweden.

Here is some more anecdotal evidence on the folly of this road we are taking:

"The wave of robberies the city of Malmö has witnessed during this past year is part of a "war against the Swedes." This is the explanation given by young robbers from immigrant backgrounds when questioned about why they only rob native Swedes, in interviews with Petra Åkesson for her thesis in sociology. "I read a report about young robbers in Stockholm and Malmö and wanted to know why they rob other youths. It usually does not involve a lot of money," she says. She interviewed boys between 15 and 17 years old, both individually and in groups.

Almost 90% of all robberies reported to the police were committed by gangs, not individuals. "When we are in the city and robbing we are waging a war, waging a war against the Swedes." This argument was repeated several times. "Power for me means that the Swedes shall look at me, lie down on the ground and kiss my feet." The boys explain, laughingly, that "there is a thrilling sensation in your body when you're robbing, you feel satisfied and happy, it feels as if you've succeeded, it simply feels good." "It's so easy to rob Swedes, so easy." "We rob every single day, as often as we want to, whenever we want to." The immigrant youth regard the Swedes as stupid and cowardly: "The Swedes don't do anything, they just give us the stuff. They're so wimpy."…

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/invandrare-krigar-mot-svenskar-med-ran-1.730573

"Immigration to Sweden in 2006 reached its highest level since records began. At the same time emigration also soared to a level not seen in over 100 years, according to official figures published by Statistics Sweden."

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=6412

There are two categories of migrants, you have the illegal migrants and the legal migrants, which category do you refer to? If someone is illegal then that one has no right to live in that country. I am very sure the legal migrants are making good use of their time and effort to contribute to the society. So please lets define the category. I am an African living in Sweden, I have never commited any crime and I do not intend to. I am well educated, I am working, paying tax and also law abiding citizen. Alot of African migrants are in my category also. Lets not use a case to judge the rest. Any one caught commiting any crime should be arrested and jailed if found guilty, and any one who is illegal should be deported period. lets stop these comments and learn to accommodate every one ragardless of race and colour as long as they are not a threat to the society.

Thanks Viking - but you didnt answer my question. Sorry I dont read swedish. I agree with the demographic analysis. My question is why the hell is Swden interfering with Israel's capital, and not worrying about the war on its own turf? A sports match in Malmo, between Sweden and Israel, was attacked by Islamic terrorists, but the Police do nothing , and allow Islamists to virtually take over Malmo. Is it because they have already surrendered to Islam in their own country, that they suggest Israel does the same?

@viking.warrior: I do not have any pernicious agenda, I am a law abiding citizen and I am sure alot of minority migrants are.

benomax,

First off you should really have admitted you were way off in your rather aggressive comment and that the facts support the reality I have described.

Secondly the category of the status of immigration of those committing these massively disproportionate crimes is overwhelming 'legal' which leads to the conclusion below.

Whilst I accept that quite obviously not all immigrants will commit crimes or intend to, what I cannot ignore, what any real government for the people cannot ignore, is that certain groups of people when imported even in relatively small numbers (currently around 5% of non-western immigrants have produced the crime rates above) into western countries commit the majority of the worst crimes in society and at a massive and disproportionate rate. That is unacceptable.

Even if there were any benefits to be had in mass immigration of alien peoples and cultures, and as I have gone into detail above, I do not believe there is, we have a duty of care first and foremost to our own people and given that we now know, Europe wide, that mass non-western immigration will lead to an explosion and domination of the crime rate by this group, we should not allow entry to any from this group.

People can scream 'racist' as much as they like but the facts are the facts and this is a common sense, rational and logical solution to protect our own people, which we have every right, and in fact a duty, to do.

I notice you end your comment by saying "lets stop these comments" in a call for the cessation of the truth being told here, or in other words censorship. Again that is totally unacceptable and not the Swedish way and I for one certainly do not appreciate being told I should shut up and stop speaking the truth because an immigrant into my country doesn't like the facts being conveyed here.

@.viking.warrior.

This is off-topic but I also had the link-spam issue when trying to pst comments.

A way to work around that problem is to remove the first part of the URL

A link like this:

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=6412

Becomes like this:

thelocal.se/article.php?ID=6412

You can then post more than two of them in a single post.

@ .viking.warrior: The parliament has allowed migrants to be here and it is the voice of the majority. Maybe you should take your case there for review and if your voice is heard they will look into it, but for now please be law abiding and obey the law and stop being a rebel.

waspy,

Thanks. I tried that for some of the Youtube videos I wanted to post but it was no good.

But it'll work fine for the news articles.

benomax,

Not one governing party in Sweden, or indeed in Europe, has ever ran for office on a ticket of mass immigration or ever included it in their manifesto. They enact it after gaining power.

Therefore Parliament is not the voice of the majority in these issues because the people haven't been told the truth by the parties seeking power.

But then I do not need to explain myself to an aggressive immigrant who cannot admit he was way off the mark in his first comment, calls for censorship of the truth, and now tries to lecture me on my own countries democratic protocols and calls me a rebel in my own homeland!

Tell me friend, which country do you come from? And why did you leave it?

@viking.warrior: I do not have to tell you the reason I left my country, I have said earlie that people migrate for various reasons and I fall in one of those category, certainly not the refugee category. Well attacking innocent migrants will put you in a bigger trouble with the law. So please fight it out with the parliament and leave us alone. For now please obey the law otherwise you will have a case soon with DO. Good nite

Viking,

just to make things more complicated - in Uk, we have many E. .european migrants or workers, from places like Poland, Lithuania, Romania etc, who are violent criminals, rapists, human traffickers etc. They are not Black or Muslim. But they are in the EU. So they have freedom of movement. Many of Poland + Romanis' most wanted criminals are in UK. So it is also a question of poor immigraiton control and security, as well as race and religion.

benomax,

Well done. Thank you for perfectly illustrating why this immigration folly does not work:

You start off with an aggressive comment that naturally turns out to be totally ignorant of the reality; you then go on to effectively tell me to shut up from posting any more facts and expressing my opinion in my own country, showing your complete contempt for both freedom of speech and the truth; when this doesn't work you then think you can threaten me in order that I stop posting facts and expressing my opinion in my own country! And better still you think you can do this by using my countries police to enforce your will!

You really think that you have the right to come here and threaten me in my own country in order to stop my freedom of speech and in order to impose your will onto me! You really think you have the right to do this! It doesn't occur to you for one second just how repulsive and offensive this will be to ordinary Swedes! And nor do so many immigrants who come here with nothing but contempt for Swedish values such as freedom of speech, open debate, objectivity and civility.

I have broken no laws whatsoever friend so feel free to try and report me to anyone you want; even today, even with this contemptible and treasonous so-called government I still have the right to speak the truth and my mind in my own country thank you very much and if you don't like that then you are in the wrong country.

It is quite clear that you do not like freedom of speech or the truth or Swedish values in general so why are you here? And I think it is abundantly clear to anyone with any common sense why you left Africa.

eddie UK,

Sure. Do you have any figures for the scope of this problem, as I have posted figures to validate my comments above?

One thing we do know for sure is that in the serious categories of crime I have described above in the UK, the Afro-Caribbean populace are overwhelming responsible.

Viking

here you are :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235632/The-wanted-men-Britain-Hiding-UK-Europes-dangerous-men.html

Now, you didnt answer my question about Sweden's anti_israel politics. Is it that you view all foreign elements as corrupt, and you are only starting with the blacks and arabs? And what business is it of Sweden to dictate to Israel what Israel's capital should be? Have they given Malmo to the morrocans?

Viking Warrior posted.:-Not one governing party in Sweden, or indeed in Europe, has ever ran for office on a ticket of mass immigration or ever included it in their manifesto. They enact it after gaining power.""

They do what the EU tells them to do, the EU wants 130 Million extra people in Europe over the next 30 years to counteract the population decline.

That's the reason for mass immigration.

You are correct though, to the best of my knowledge, no Political party ever mentioned they approved mass immigration in their manifesto, they do it secretly, like a thief in the night !!.

what the hell do they need 130 Million immigrants for? There isn't enough space in UK for that. Nor can we afford the crime; the social security; education; healthcare. In any case, even the EU migrant workers, take their money back to EU and dont leave it in UK, so it is not of any benefit to us at all. 130Million - most of which are muslims, will make EU=rabia --> end of story.

eddie UK,

That link is not an official statistical report of crime but actually a wanted list.

And you seem to be under the illusion that there are only primary races such as white, black and Asian and not subdivisions of each.

I am not sure why you keep asking me about this Swedish governments policies as if I am somehow responsible or in agreement with them when I have made my dislike, indeed contempt, for them abundantly clear.

I personally couldn't care less about many foreign affairs when my own country is in such a mess and hurtling towards oblivion.

Hagen,

Yes, can you imagine the peoples reaction and the amount of votes Jens Orback and his odious party would have accrued if he had made his absurd and treasonous statement…

"We must be open and tolerant towards Islam and Muslims because when we become a minority, they will be so towards us."

… an official part of his and his parties election manifesto?! No, of course he waits until after the election and when in a major position of authority before revealing his true nature and agenda.

You are of course right that the EU, our sinister Marxist governance of unelected Presidents, ministers, commissioners and officials are largely behind the push for mass immigration into all member states, but each country has its fair share of easily bought / ideologically warped traitors ready to speed things along in their wake.

But it would seem that the EU is not happy with this or the progress made thus far and seeks to revise the Dublin Regulations that cover the power of the EU in member states in relation to asylum seekers.

It appears that EU member states control over asylum seekers is about to be taken over by the EU directly, which in effect means the EU will control who is Swedish / Danish / French etc, who can enter each country and who we may allow to settle in each country.

It will be, in effect, the complete and public end of sovereignty.

http://www.ulb.ac.be/assoc/odysseus/CEAS/CEASdistribution.html

Here are the proposals:

http://www.ulb.ac.be/assoc/odysseus/CEAS/COM%282008%29820.pdf

In which we see the EU plan to take over asylum policies from nation states is the plan of the revised Dublin Regulations:

(6) The first phase in the creation of a Common European Asylum System that should lead, in the longer term, to a common procedure and a uniform status, valid throughout the Union, for those granted asylum, has now been achieved. The European Council of 4 November 2004 adopted The Hague Programme which sets the objectives to be implemented in the area of freedom, security and justice in the period 2005-2010. In this respect The Hague Programme invited the European Commission to conclude the evaluation of the first phase legal instruments and to submit the second-phase instruments and measures to the Council and the European Parliament with a view to their adoption before 2010.

Been in sweden few months .Too cold too boring for living ,but people are nice.

It is interesting to see that there is still people who wants to immigrate up there.

@viking, you are totally wrong about what I wrote. I insisted that I do not want to make any judgments here, especially that I am not in a position to do so. I just mentioned my own personal case so that you know the policy that swedish immigration office is following is different in many ways than what you may think and bet many swedes have no idea about it.

You will never know some aspects of it unless you understand issues from both sides : immigrants and natives.

Regarding my english I never claimed it to be good or whatever and I will never do, because it is a second language for me.

You just seem to argue against all other comments so that you can stick to your own beliefs. Just try to think differently at times. I suggest you to stop and consider yourself in place of some of those immigrants and then judge.

Regarding UK I do not know their policy and have not time to read about it either. But they have been exploiting India for a few hundred years, like what France did to some African countries and many easterners think it is payback time for them!

Anyway, even in case of UK I have a swedish friend who went to UK with her wife to work for one year and came back with 2-3 times the salary he could earn in Sweden. So now you say UK should not allow swedes in??

One of the main problems that Sweden has with immigration that Canada does not, is with integration of immigrants with the society. For so many reasons they are left out. I even know many young adults who have been here since age of 3-4 and guess what when I talk with them they admit they never felt swedish.

And honestly, I guess people like viking.warrior make this even more intense. The worst you can do now that there are immigrants in your country is increase the gap between swedes and them.

I totally understand your concerns that you care for your country and it is so ok with me. But imagine how much angry feelings/hatred you may cause in immigrants who are already here with such comments, it makes them feel like all swedish are like that and that even increases problems in Sweden. If you really care for Sweden I bet you would not want this either.

One more personal thing about myself, the reason that I left my country even for continuing my education is that I am an atheist and it was a hell of life living in a Muslim country having totally different mindsets.

Swedes need to have more kids otherwise their culture will die.

Chad, Cyprus, Indian border with Pakistan, Israel, do we want to add Sweden to the list?

130 million immigrants demanded by the EU commission?!!! I want to see the study.

Send some boats to other countries. Offer free housing and help with language and work skills. I'm sure Sweden could reqruite better. Invite unemployed Americans to come to Sweden...a reverse immigration trend strategy!

FireBoy,

I don't think I was wrong about what you wrote at all.

In fact you continue to moan here about my use of facts and free speech in my own country claiming I could cause anger/hatred with such facts and freedom of speech to aliens within my country; essentially another variation on benomax demands / threats I shut up and stop posting such facts and opinions.

Well I can tell you friend, I couldn't care less if you or anyone else are offended by the truth or by freedom of speech. That is what we have here. If you or anyone else doesn't like it, leave. Simple.

But I think the real revelation in your actual attitude here is the comment on immigration into the UK.

You say, with scarcely concealed glee that immigration into the UK is "payback" for events centuries ago that no Briton today can be held liable for and certainly not the working class who bear the brunt of your "payback."

Which part of the mass immigration into the UK do you consider is sufficient "payback"? Is the massive explosion in crime and the non-western dominance of it? Is it the race riots? Is it terrorism like the successful attack on 7/7? Is it the bankrupting of the UK to pay for benefits, medical bills, pensions and bogus compensation payouts to immigrants?

Which is your favourite part of that "payback"?

Is that the attitude you have in Sweden? That there is some sort of "payback" to be had? Because many of your brethren clearly do, and the article above illustrates this clearly with interviews and anecdotal evidence asides from the terrible crime statistics, particularly rape.

It is obvious that you are not content here; that you feel we have not done enough for you even though I cannot imagine how in any reality the fact that you are an atheist in a land that doesn't tolerate such a thing could be ever be a Swedish problem. Indeed in most Muslim countries a (non) theological stance such as yours would bring death either by state or by peers. But even this fact does not lend you to gratitude for refugee in my country; still you moan about our systems.

And ironically, you now find yourself in a conundrum in any case as projections show that at the current rate of immigration and birth rates, Muslims will become a majority in Sweden in 30 years time.

What will become of you then? Or us?

by the way viking.warrior , one thing that I have noticed a lot whenever I go to the immigration office to renew my visa is that there are plenty of swedish men coming with Thai girls!!!! Also If you look around yourself you will find lots and lots of swedish young males marrying non-swedish girls to create a family. I wonder if you ever stopped to think about this issue which is cultural than political! maybe going to thailand and other countries with warm girls should be banned for swedish men?;) (joking)

-- Didn't you have any problem with immigration when massive amount of swedes moved to America?

- One side question, what do you think of your king having a German wife whose father was German and mother Brazilian? What if she was from Turkey,Iran or even Pakistan? Would you have felt any different?

@viking.warrior: I am not asking you not to express yourself the way you feel and like and, I do not threaten you in any way but, you are the ones threatening migrants by your extremist ideas about not allowing migrants to be in Sweden. Listen, the law has permitted me to be here so what do you want to do about it, remove me? If that is your main goal then I am telling you to please take the matter to the law makers and this is a wrong place for you to express your opinion and fight. The article says: "Swedes positive about immigration". If you do not agree about this then please and please again, take your fight to the law makers. If you harrass any innocent migrant based on your opinion by assualting them, then you have a case with the law because the law protects them too like you. That is why I conclude by saying you are a rebellious person who does not want to abide by the law of the land. Be a good citizen for oncé and drop all your discriminatory ideas and make the world peaceful my friend.

There is nothing wrong with immigrants that come to this nation or any other nation for that matter, with the purpose of offering his services, to do work and contribute to the society they have elected for whatever personal or social reasons call their home.

The problem is the politicians. They have created a problem, where none exists. A brief review of immigration history can prove this point. You just have to extract yourself from the present time and look at this without your own subjective pretext that you have developed, whilst living in a regulated and unfree society.

I believe we should close down Migrationsverket. Just turn off the lights. Strike off all current legislation. Open the borders. But be clever for a change. Make it a priviledge to come here, but expect people to earn their right to get any benefits before freely and unreservedly dishing it out. I believe immigration can regulate itself. You put a price on coming here to work and live. What is the price? I don't know, but probably in the region of 100K to 250K kr for each immigrant. Ask them to pay a license at länstyrelsen to work and live her. Pay it back to them when they have earned citizenship. Make citizenship something you earn when you have lived and worked here long enough. We expect children to be 18 years old before they can be called adults, before they can vote. Let's do the same for people who come here. 18 years to citizenship. Meanwhile, use to proceeds to pay off national debt. It will give you 18 years credit free until you might have to pay it back.

Break the law, violate the rights of other individuals here? Well, the bond can pay for damages. The immigrant cannot pay up to the bond, well, throw him out. If the violation is bad enough the bond is forfeited, he is exiled and we keep the money. It's simple and you don't need Migrationsverket to run with this policy.

Does it sound to harsh? Is it to expensive? Well, for heavens sake, people probably spend the same or more on all the people smugglers today when all they need is buy an SAS ticket and fork up the money on arrival.

@ Joe Swede"130 million immigrants demanded by the EU commission?!!! I want to see the study."

This is not a study, it is EU Immigration Policy and in the UK this was told to us as the reason we needed the Immigrants we got.

The UK is already overpopulated and the eastern side of the UK is sinking into the sea due to Tectonic shift, so in about 50 years London will be gone !

This is not a tall story by the way, it is fact, London is doomed to go underwater.

So we are going to lose a lot of land where people can live so we will be more overcrowded ! I am a Radical Green Person ! I know we have to lower our population to be able to survive and the last thing we need is the EU telling us how many immigrants we HAVE to take !!

Ah, the white man and his supremacist demons!

Calebrian, Pingali is the first WRITTEN account of binary numeral system. But it was used in Africa for centuries (and came to Europe via the Moors). See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_numeral_system

But you're missing the point, I think. The point being that these (and other important) developments didn't originate in Sweden (or even Europe) but rather arrived with the immigrants (from Africa, the East, etc). For more important developments in maths, science, etc, originating from outside of Europe try running a search on Al Gebra, Ibn Al Haytham, etc, etc

Mike

The stats and the comments make me conclude that the world is running out of white people. The whole of the white world (North America, Europe, etc ) needs immigrants and the available ones are all .. . er . . . dark skinned. And yet only clever white ones are required. What a pickle! What to do? Clever people, am sure they'll figure out something.

White Europe is interesting. But how can what is supposed to be the very best that evolution has produced start dying out? Isn't survival the whole point ? If you prove that you're the best and then you die out, what is the point of that? Situation could have confounded even Darwin himself . . .

Regarding UK, I have no idea since I have never been there so I do not comment. I said that is a common thing among easternes about UK as apparently you quite do not know some of this. Anyway, If you are asking, I am not Indian or Paki so I do not care and regarding sweden, not at all I do not think of sweden that way.

But one thing that I DO know about UK is that they have many big names in academia and research institutes and also many world-famous surgeons, who are not British. The same is true for Sweden especially for doctors and dentists!

fortunately I am not an immigrant here, and I have seen a lot in your writing that you talk like I am an one and I am angry, not satisfied looking for payback,etc. What I am saying is not personal (in personal cases I explicitly said it is so). I just try to reflect some of the things I have seen, heard from immigrants, easterners, ..... to you. But it seems to cannot/ do not want to get out of your prejudice towards immigrants. And FYI I never applied as a refugee or whatever. for my case, I just asked them for work visa not student. Capiche?

I am really sorry that you said those words about me that way in both your messages. I have swedish friends at work and even at times it was me who started discussing that sweden is a good country and needs to be kept that way and stuffs because I had been living in a muslim country and had problems you could never imagine so in some other ways while my swedish friends didn't care that much about it I started talking on these subjects with them. But behaviors like yours makes me , a positive person, even disappointed let alone those with negative thoughts living here in Sweden.

Your last paragraph is totally illogical. You keep judging and judging many things and many people. Like you start your paragraph with "you are not content and you feel we have not done enough for you"" . Just go back and read my first comment again. What I was saying was about conditions of immigration to sweden, which is not necessary based on skills, education or etc and I mentioned my case as an example. so I meant the priorities in Sweden's immigration policy is not skill and education at the moment! And I guess it has never been so far.

if you do not formulate the problems correctly you will never find a solution.Regarding majority in sweden and muslims, you should remember many immigrant in sweden are not moslems. Anyway a better question out of your paragraph could be why birth rate is low in Sweden Which then requires to have immigration? Why many people are flooding from non-european countries here even risking their lives? and so on.....

Learn not to have prejudice and judge people this easily.

so we have a a story headed

"Swedes positive about immigration"

And of course all the usual bigots and racist SD supporters come out of their cesspit's to post on the local saying it is not true.

These pathetic beings can just be ignored, as we know the 99.99% of these idiots are either not Swedes, not living in Sweden or the couple of skinheads that are all so alone that they need to spend a few moments in mutual admiration and think that there is at least one other person in the world who has the same lonely twisted view of life as them.

ricky posted.:-And of course all the usual bigots and racist SD supporters come out of their cesspit's to post on the local saying it is not true""

You are not grasping the thrust of the argument Ricky and it's not about Swedes being positive about Immigration, it is that polls like this one can be and are, frequently slanted in the direction the government wants them to go.

I think that the consensus is that we don't trust these polls.

I am sorry to have rubbished your little rant, I do hope that your Jul is not ruined as well and better luck in the new year !

Mike: "The Moors migrated to Spain and brought with them Al-Gebra, binary code, etc, etc. The Flemish and French migrated to Sweden and brought with them glassblowing, your civil service and many of the words in the current Swedish language! Lutheranism (the Swedish state religion) was imported by invanders from Germany. The Swedes migrated to north America to flee famine and starvation and were welcomed there."

Mike, do you not find any difference between those immigrants and those coming to Scandinavia en masse today? Clue: it has something to do with the welfare state.

If more than one half of Swedes think that immigration is positive for Sweden, what is wrong with that? Maybe, they're right and in general, they know more things than the 40% who think it's negative.

My opinion is that, Sweden needs different kinds of immigrants.

1. the well educated, high tech. skilled people who will ensure growth and industry development.

2. Enterpreneurs with money to invest in Sweden

3. Labor type people, to do jobs Swedes don't want or is sorely lacking.

Of course, Sweden should avoid bigotry and nativism and allow these people to prosper, and move up in the ladder. A laborer son, should be given the opportunity to be more educated or be an enterpreneur in the future. That's how a country will prosper.

FireBoy,

You will note that when the Swedes went to the US, unlike your brethren in Scandinavia, they did not bring a massive increase in crime with them and a rape wave the likes the US had never seen, nor did they dominate the crime rate with massive disproportion; they didn't attack the police and fire crews in their new country and the US fire crews never had to wear bullet proof jackets because of their new intake; nor did they live off the state; they were hard working, assimilable, loyal and took to their new country as proud citizens.

As for the rest of your comment it is completely disingenuous and back-pedalling as you have done nothing but moan about Sweden and its visa system and recounted with glee how the UK was getting its "payback" via immigration for the sins of its fathers.

benomax,

You are at it again, trying to your best to stop me posting facts about the criminal and rape fest reality of this mass immigration into Sweden - my country, my ancestral homeland - with more threats and bogus idiotic fantastic lies.

I am not "threatening migrants" but I do have a migrant threatening me - you - and I have never "assaulted" anyone so why make up such childish stories to get your own way?

This may be what you do in your own country to impose your will on people, lies and threats, but it is not the Swedish way. We have free speech here and there is not a law against stating facts as yet and I have broken no laws at all in my own country thank you very much.

I will speak in my own country and you will not stop me with your lies and threats. I think your merit to Sweden can be judged by your actions here.

dsc & Rick Methane,

Where have you been?

It's not like the nasty lying self-appointed PC Commissars to be able to stay away from an opportunity to scream hysterically, lie pathologically and smear and threaten to orgasm.

Asides from all of the massive criminal 'benefits' our enrichment has brought, especially rape and the rape of children, not to mention the ruinous financial cost as fully evidenced, here is another poll:

"Public sentiment may be turning against immigrants. Sifo, a market research firm, released a poll in July 2000 that found that 54 percent of Swedes believed there were too many foreigners in Sweden, up from 46 percent in 1999.

Respondents said that foreigners committed a disproportionate amount of crime and caused problems in schools. Swedish Prime Minister Goran Persson in an interview on February 6, 2000 said that "It's clear that at certain times we had too much immigration and large parts of our immigration policies were badly handled."

http://migration.ucdavis.edu/MN/more.php?id=2227_0_5_0

If everyone study in detail, the history of immigrants to America, I'm sure that in any group, there are always a few undesirable, rough, swindlers, liers, prostitutes, crooks or simply unsophisticated people. People who immigrate by nature did not do well in their country of origin.

I'll bet there are a few Swedish undesirables who immigrated to America, as well. But far more are decent, hardworking, law abiding, honest folks. That's the same with Mexicans, Chinese, Filipinos, Germans, Irish, Italians, etc. Almost all just want to improve their lives.

efm,

What an odd comment.

Do you the actual know the reasons why Swedes emigrated enmasse to the US?

And no doubt there would have been the odd rogue among them; what I said though was that unlike our immigrants, the Swedish migrants to the US did not bring a massive increase in crime with them and a rape wave the likes the US had never seen, nor did they dominate the crime rate with massive disproportion; they didn't attack the police and fire crews in their new country and the US fire crews never had to wear bullet proof jackets because of their new intake; nor did they live off the state; they were hard working, assimilable, loyal and took to their new country as proud citizens.

See the difference?

And don't talk of Mexicans in the US and the crime rate! Here is just one by-product of their entry into the US:

"Illegal aliens are killing more Americans than the Iraq war, says a new report from Family Security Matters that estimates some 2,158 murders are committed every year by illegal aliens in the U.S. The group says that number is more than 15 percent of all the murders reported by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the U.S. and about three times the representation of illegal aliens in the general population"

http://www.gopusa.com/news/2007/february/0222_illegals_report.shtml

Trust me, I have much more of the official statistics of the massively disproportionate criminality of the Mexicans and Latinos in the US.

The Swedish migrants from their impoverished start in the US to their established status today? Model citizens.

Hey can we Croats come to Sweden? We're cousins afterall.

The founder of Haplogroup I lived approximately 25,000 years ago in the Balkans during the last Glacial Maximum. He is the direct descendent of Haplogroup F ancestors who had journeyed from the Middle East into the Balkans. Today, the highest frequencies of Haplogroup I are found in the Balkans, near the Dinaric Mountain chain in Croatia. Haplogroup I is strongly associated with Croat populations, namely Slavic people living in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and other nearby countries.

As the ice sheets retreated at the end of the Ice Age, these ancestors continued their journey northward into Northern Europe, in particular Scandinavia (a region in Northern Europe named after the Scandinavian Peninsula). Today, a large portion of Scandinavian populations in the Adriatic regions, including Denmark, mainland Norway, Sweden, and Finland trace their ancestry to this line. Vikings also likely descended from this line.

Wow. I thought I had issues. Somebody needs to get laid. One more thing. Why oh, why get on the case of foreign scientists who come here, don't ask much, and work their asses off, contributing to the real welfare of Sweden? I know of several foreign scientists and MDs who have worked and studied here and were denied residency based on work but were told they could stay if they had a sambo. So Sweden spends all that money and time on these people and then doesn't even take advantage of their skills.

Give me a D!

Give me a U!

Give me a M!

Give me a B!

What's that spell!?!

CULTURAL HEGEMONY! YAAAAAAAYYY!

Yes, I will quote the Jackson 5: "Get it together, or leave it alone"

And for the record, regarding "Mexicans". I'll revert to the language of my youth: Payback's a bitch, ain't it? People need to read some history around here.

When I move back to the US, I'm going to learn Spanish (for real this time) and try to help Spanish speaking immigrants learn English and get a job. I won't blow any smoke up their ass and they'll know what's expected of them as immigrants, but they'll have somebody who treats them hopefully as an equal. And that is, in fact, half the job finished. I wonder if anyone on this site has seen a crew of Mexican guys put a roof on a house in the middle of August in central Virginia (or anywhere in the Southern US). It's always hotter than hell, and those guys work their asses off, never complain, and hardly break a sweat. I can only respect those men. Plus, they make their own bean burrito lunches with little ovens on their breaks after which they all crash out for a nap. Then, at one thirty sharp, it's like a SWAT team with hammers goes at it again while the others haul entire packs of shingles up ladders to the second story. That is heavy, heavy work and in a way what immigration is all about. They will hue the foundations of their lives out of time, sweat and fantastic homemade Mexican food (something most Swedes have no idea about, haha) and their children will grow up and be doctors or teachers or roofers and you guys will be jerking off on the internet to Sarah Palin. The sock you clean up with will be made in China. Just like Volvos. Bitches.

Hairdont that is all fine and good. However, Europeans were laying roofs in artic conditions. Try that. I will give you the edge in food however but the Italians beat everyone. I do like Selma however I think she is only half Mexican.

I'm sorry about writing "bitches". It was uncalled for. Seriously.

viking warrior,

What I'm merely saying and you agreed is that there are alway a few rotten apples is any group of people. Sure, there will be fewer Swedish tugs, because they are relatively fewer compared to Hispanics. It does not mean that the Swedes are somewhat superior to the others. By the way, the United states is a far bigger country than Sweden, both by land, resources, and opportunities. We also have our own immigration problems in the US, and you can read bias reports on both sides, but it is undeniable, that immigration as a whole

is more positive and it created the United States. Perhaps, Americans learn from their mistakes in the past, with slavery and bigotry, and Sweden will learn the same way.

Of course, we have more crimes, and other things, but they are not isolated among blacks, brown, Mexicans, etc. There are white criminals as well. Poverty, hopelessness, lack of education, victimization, mental illness, and hatred brings the worse of people, irregardless of race.

I think the issue was best summed by Jean Marie Le Penn of France's National Front. 600,000 are not a problem but 6,000,000 is a big problem.

Ehm...

I want to migrate to Sweden, but now I am bit afraid..

From Poland.

Yeah, your car stealing crime rate is going to increase :P

I am reading this and i think about the power of prejudice.

If you are afraid of imigrants, you start to be angry or avoid them. So they start to dislike you. They feel alienated, especially their children. Some day they will go to Iraq and learn how to make a bomb :(

I don't know if realy it's a matter of colour of your skin?

I think that after terrorist atacks we are bit frighted and i'ts a reason that we don't like muslims - but it's way to nowhere, yes? They are frighted too and build more bombs.

Prejudices are working both ways - it would be funny what people from africa think about Sweden. It was funny when i heard them talking about U.S. - complete nonsenses mostly.

Ok, there are some differencies between people. We can use it to build something new, to enrich our country, or to destroy - we have a choice.

Viking have right, there are higher crime statistic for imigrants, especially for african imigrants. But for me it's more interesting why it work like this?

Imigrants usually have more social problems than local people - more suicides, more drugs and alcohol, more crimes. If you want to have imigrants in your country, you cannot avoid it - you can only think how to minimalise the risk.

I have read many times, that Sweden need imigrants - so, maybe i'ts matter of balance - if you want to have high pension, scientist and people who want do the job that no Swede likes, you can only try to minimalise negative side effects. Swedish government do it in many way - the are clever, for example they have SFI. But if normal people have been more open and less afraid, it would help greate.

I have read some articles of Zaremba - Den Polske Rormokaren och andra berattelser fran Sverige :P

Hairdont,

What a bizarre rant.

But here we are back that concept that immigration is "payback."

That is that immigration is a punitive affair and should be and that the recipients of this punishment are somehow culpable for the sins of their fathers and deserver this "payback."; if they were even, indeed sins.

efm,

Yet again, you have totally missed the point.

Once more for you: The Swedish migrants to the US may well have had the odd few rogues but the Swedish immigrants, as impoverished as they were, did not effect the US crime rate at all nor did they fall upon the state for benefits. They worked hard and made some remarkable achievements, particularly in farming and business, and actually become an important part of the sustenance of the US.

The Swedes never fought a war against the US authorities such as the police and fire crews; never attempted any terrorist acts against their new country; didn't impact the crime and became solid and proud citizens.

Compare this to the situation we now have across Scandinavia with just 5% of non-western immigration:

In Denmark non-whites committed 68% of all rapes, and it was revealed that non-whites were over-represented in all crime by an average of 46% and in Copenhagen 47.5% of prisoners on remand for serious crimes were non-white. In Norway it was found that two out of three charged with rape in Oslo were non-white and that every case of aggravated sexual assault ending in rape over the past three years was committed by non-white immigrants, whilst in Sweden it as found that a rapist was four times more likely to have been born abroad - with Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominating the group of rape suspects and that non-whites were responsible for 25% of all crime in Sweden.

Just as gang rape was virtually unheard of in Northern Europe just 20-25 years ago but has now become commonplace, so too has rape in general; in fact since Sweden started its mass immigration programme, the cases of rape have quadrupled and the cases of the rape of children - that is under 15 year olds - is SIX- 6 - times higher, then it was 20 years ago.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article326023.ab

And if seeing is believing, watch the news report below to see the complete breakdown in law and order and social cohesion in the immigrant area of Rosengård.

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/11/situation-in-malm.html

Excuse me, so you should kill all imigrants or throw them away, or

you should try to kick out this criminals and try to help the rest with integration?

http://cjr.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/14/1/13

some researches.

most of this crimes are committed by youth, second generation of imigrants. Why? Because they have no proper education, and their parents had no time for parenting, because they work hard to achieve their position in new country.

But their parents worked hard, like the Swedish immigrants did in U. S. did years ago.

You know, these rape statistics would decline if Swedish guys would stop looking so FABULOUS all the time.

hairdont,

That you find the horrific reality of rape and the rape of children amusing is no surprise.

You are a twisted fool.

akifue,

You start off with some hysterical nonsense in the same vein as benomax, clearly to try and stifle debate and you then go on to finish with pure ignorance.

Never did the Swedish immigrants to the US behave in this way, causing and dominating a massive crime wave and a rape and child rape explosion.

Yet this is what we get from having just 5% of our population made up from non-western immigrants.

And it is not just the crime, it is the attitude too. It is if, as fireboy and hairdont put it, there is a massive attitude that these new immigrants are carrying out some kind of "payback" in Sweden instead of being an offered extremely generous (if not illogical, unnecessary and suicidal) opportunity of settling in one of the worlds most advanced and civilised countries.

Watch the video above to see the attitude and read reports such as these:

"Firemen in Rosengård are forced to acquire helmets

"One has to weigh the risk of a fire spreading to the risks for our personnel"

Rosengård firemen are forced to wear helmets with visors and borrow military bullet-proof vests. "We have reinforced our cars, but they have suffered substantial damage anyway."

"Every day we have an alarm from Rosengård, and we never know what will happen. We want the police in place beforehand. If there's no risk of the fire spreading, we often don't go there at all…"

"Many fires are set just to get us there. Firemen from Jägersro fire station are now equipped with special helmets that protect the face and neck. Last winter, when it was the worst, we were forced to borrow bullet-proof vests from the military."

One senior colleague has quit the force, as he did not feel he could guarantee his men's safety. Several others have asked to be transferred to service elsewhere."

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article5758228.ab

Almost 90% of all robberies reported to the police were committed by gangs, not individuals. "When we are in the city and robbing we are waging a war, waging a war against the Swedes." This argument was repeated several times. "Power for me means that the Swedes shall look at me, lie down on the ground and kiss my feet." The boys explain, laughingly, that "there is a thrilling sensation in your body when you're robbing, you feel satisfied and happy, it feels as if you've succeeded, it simply feels good." "It's so easy to rob Swedes, so easy." "We rob every single day, as often as we want to, whenever we want to." The immigrant youth regard the Swedes as stupid and cowardly: "The Swedes don't do anything, they just give us the stuff. They're so wimpy."…

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/invandrare-krigar-mot-svenskar-med-ran-1.730573

Your use of logic is a tribute to the intelligence of logs everywhere.

Stay fabulous.

hairdont,

That you find the horrific reality of rape and the rape of children amusing is no surprise.

You are a twisted fool. You need help.

Almost 90% of all robberies reported to the police were committed by gangs, not individuals. "When we are in the city and robbing we are waging a war, waging a war against the Swedes." This argument was repeated several times. "Power for me means that the Swedes shall look at me, lie down on the ground and kiss my feet." The boys explain, laughingly, that "there is a thrilling sensation in your body when you're robbing, you feel satisfied and happy, it feels as if you've succeeded, it simply feels good." "It's so easy to rob Swedes, so easy." "We rob every single day, as often as we want to, whenever we want to." The immigrant youth regard the Swedes as stupid and cowardly: "The Swedes don't do anything, they just give us the stuff. They're so wimpy."…

^&*()$%#@! I realize that these comments are given by a young rebel but multiply this by a factor and you get our future unless the flow is actively halted.

@viking.warrior: Okay you speak out your mind, carry placards and go on air, continue your freedom of expression against migrants. I wish you all the best in your agenda. Somebody like you should not hold any international position or work for UN or other international organisation because you are far from uniting the world and making it a peaceful place to live but, please do not allow it to lead to assault because the law will definitely take its course on you. Good luck and "god jul".

Hauki: the Swedish welfare state is RUN by (hard working) invanders. That's the point! Sweden NEEDS invanders to run your hospitals, old peoples homes, homehelp, etc, because the young people up here don't want to do that kind of work. Try visiting Dahlens sjukhus for old people if you don't believe me. The place is run by very pleasant and hard working and cheerful Latino nurses. Or try visiting Bjorkhagen wardcentral- very pleasant Chilean nurse runs that. Or Sodersjukhuset which seems to be staffed by lots of very pleasant and hard working Finns. Perhaps we should be asking what economists would call the 'counterfactual scenario'. What would happen if these immigrants left (or were deported). Answer: the Swedish welfare system would collapse! That's the point!

Mike

JoeSwede,

Yes, quite. The whole thesis makes for a gruelling read.

benomax

Having now given up to threaten me into silence with Third World tactics you now assume some sort of authority to place restrictions on my freedom and potential employment on purely political grounds; i.e You do not agree with me.

That is called totalitarianism and the actions of the extremists, fascists and communists, not the actions and thoughts of a freedom loving democrat.

Again, this is not the Swedish way but does hark back to Third and Second world standards and long bygone days in Northern Europe.

But you are wrong again about me not aiming to make the world a "peaceful place to live", well, you are wrong about insofar as Sweden and Europe - the rest of the world is none of my concern and I doubt very much Africa will ever be a peaceful place to live; but for my country and Europe that is exactly my aim and we can achieve that in part by cutting the massive crime rate and rape explosion that has been caused by non-western mass immigration.

Nuskin,

Ah, that old chestnut of 'jobs whites wont do' so widely touted in the US and the UK - amazing how these were all jobs whites did do before mass immigration though.

There are no jobs 'whites will not do' when a fair wage is offered and the wage is not undercut by foreign labour.

As for the health service being dependent on immigrants, again it is amazing how we managed to cope all on our own for so many years just 20-25 years ago before they arrived!

That canard of 'health care will collapse without immigrants' was and still is a favourite of the PC brigade in the UK when I lived there but the reality, as always, is very different.

For a start, British nurses and British doctors find it so hard to get work in their own countries NHS because the British government favours foreign medical staff they often have to emigrate:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-482992/Overseas-doctors-taking-jobs.html

This is not only down to the PC dogma of all public management in the UK but also down to the disgusting and 'racist' UK race quota laws too.

And of course, the only reason so many medical staff are needed in the first place compared to just a few decades ago when the NHS was staffed almost exclusively by indigenous Britons is because of the massive load and strain put on it by mass immigration.

In fact it works out one new immigrant registers with the NHS every minute:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237679/A-migrant-minute-registers-GPs-Huge-increase-puts-doctors-pressure.html

A very similar situation is developing in Sweden.

Yet again, this argument is nothing more then lies.

Viking- the Daily Mail is not exactly unbiased or particularly higbrow press. It's tabloid popular press with explicitly right-wing leanings. Returning to Sweden...

... the SOFI (internationally respected academic think-tank with no political bias) statistics show quite clearly that Sweden will need 100,000 more immigrants to maintain current welfare levels!

Mike

Nuskin,

Really, is that it? Cast some unsubstantiated aspirations on one of the UK's most poplar daily newspapers and then think the job of discrediting is all done and dusted?

Pathetic.

So anyway, if you don't like the Daily Mails take on it then, why not take it from the horse's mouth? This is from the British Medical Journal, the publication of the British Medical Association:

"The threat of unemployment among UK graduates this year is being blamed on the new computerised recruitment system. But, argues Graham Winyard, the real problem is government policy on medical immigration…

The effects of the collapse of the United Kingdom's electronic recruitment and selection system for junior doctors, the Medical Training Applications Service (MTAS), have shaken British medicine.1 Anxiety has been raised about the careers of thousands of young doctors along with questions about the fitness for purpose of some of medicine's key institutions.2 The government has ordered an independent review not only of the recruitment system but of the whole of the new pattern of postgraduate education, Modernising Medical Careers,3 and it is understandable that the system is being blamed for all current difficulties.

The reality, in respect of medical unemployment, is more complicated and more worrying. Even if MTAS had worked perfectly, we would have still faced major problems with medical unemployment because of the government's muddled approach to managing medical immigration…"

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/335/7620/593

And let's try The Telegraph for the other article as it fits into your idea of "higbrow press" and is a broadsheet too:

"Migrants are registering with family doctors at a rate of one a minute, leaving GP surgeries "straining at the seams" as they try to cope with the impact of rising immigration, new figures show…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/6858412/Migrants-joined-GP-practices-every-minute.html

Happy with the sources now?!

And happy that your argument is invalid in the UK and that as soon as the figures are known publicly in Sweden it will be proven to be just as invalid here too.

Like I said, both countries managed just fine before mass immigration and it is only mass immigration itself that places a need for more staff!

So your 'independent' think tank figures are pure rubbish, as always in the 'we need immigrants are we will implode' cases.

@Nuskin

Even if we assume that there is a shortage of workers in Sweden why would it be necessary to recruit them from outside of the EU?

Unemployment is very high in many European countries and there are people who would happily migrate from Poland or other countries and will integrate easily with the existing Swedish population.

Viking- yes those sources look more kosher (hope the Jewish reference doesn't offend you! :-) ) But (as an academic) I'd like to see the whole article, not a couple of quotes taken out of context and clearly this is a cock up in the NHS so I'd be cautious about generalising from one cock up and drawing general policy conclusions based on that, let alone extending these to Sweden (in support of some racist/bigoted rhetoric). Surely the WELFARE point is that we should be recruiting the best people for the job. Which in many cases means recruiting internationally (as the best hospitals do in the US, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Brazil, etc, etc, do). The last two ops I had in the UK I was treated by an Indian and Nigerian doctor, respectively. Both were very pleasant and bright and competent and I was very happy with the treatment. So, in my view, any kindof quota (for example favour UK born over foreign born) actually minimises welfare. So, in reply to Waspy, I don't think it matters whether you recruite within the EU or cast your net wider so long as the best person for the job is recruited. My point: you're muddying the waters by mixing up what is good for Sweden in terms of welfare (ie casting your net wide and recruiting the best available person for the job internationally, which already happens in commerce, it, etc) with a nationalistic/xenophobic point (which I think is your real agenda).

A lot of stats (mostly taken out of context are being used in this thread) to support a lot of racist/xenophobic/bigoted rhetoric. So I'll wind up with a couple of very clear stats:

- Invanders in Sweden are net CONTRIBUTORS in terms of tax revenue.

- Sweden (like other countries) suffers labour shortages in certain sectors of the economy. If, as seems to be the case, these can't be fully met from the Swedish labour pool then welfare of Swedish citizens will be maximised by recruiting internationally (on the basis of the best person qualified for the job is employed)

If, as the statistics suggest, invanders are needed to maximise the welfare of Swedish citizens I find it very difficult to see how they can be considered a bad thing. Unless, of course, you're real point is a xenophobic/racist one: that you don't like dark skinned people and their cultures. If so, at least have the integrity to 'own' (to use Dr Phil- Sweden's most famous tv invander- speak) your racism/xenophobia rather than using questionable stats from studies abroad taken out of context to support your racist/xenophobic rhetoric!

Mike

Mike: " the Swedish welfare state is RUN by (hard working) invanders. That's the point! Sweden NEEDS invanders to run your hospitals, old peoples homes, homehelp, etc, because the young people up here don't want to do that kind of work."

Mike, quite frankly, I don't think that's the case. For every immigrant working in an old people's home, there's several unemployed, just claiming state benefits.

Also, and I hate to point this out, nursing etc. does not contribute anything to the GDP. It's all funded by the taxpayer. In a sense these services are a welfare state luxury.

Hauki, I think there are two issues here. The real 'problem' in Sweden is the cradle to the grave social welfare system (which has many welfare benefits but also has fiscal and other costs). Taking the fiscal costs, invanders are net contributors in terms of tax revenue. That's just fact. Also there are labour deficits in the welfare system, some of which is/are met by invanders. Those are just facts!

For a nice example of how a foreign (Egyptian) born invander has made an enormous contribution to the UK National Health System check out heart surgeon Magdi Yacoub:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdi_Yacoub

... who (working within the NHS system) has made great advances in life-saving heart transplant surgery techniques, some of which have made their way up to these frozen parts, I'm told! :-)

Surely the real issue is not the colour of your doctor or nurses skin or where they were born but, rather, that when you get sick you get good and competent treatment at minimum cost to taxpayer. If that means recruiting internationally I can't see how that can be a bad thing! Or??

Mike

@Roy E Honestly ????… QUOTE :

"A people and/or society that cannot sustain its own population - let alone grow it - is by definition dysfunctional and has sentenced itself to extinction………….. Healthy things grow. Sick things wither and die. " UNQUOTE

What an outrageous attack on yourself!! You've failed to see the 'log in your own eye.' How do you think Sverige is fairing in the argumentyou put forward ?

Also you attempt to put forward Darwinism to validate your view in an odd way actually....Darwinism classically advocates the idea of evolve or be extinct!

Everything and everybody, immigrants, emigrants, hosts etc...nothing stays the same forever. Or they do indeed die. Populations are characteristically dynamic. Africa, Asia, America, Europe and of course Sweden are always in transition . ALL THE TIME. And aint a God darn thing NOBODY can do to stop it. No matter what walls you build. (you just end up isolating yourself anyway)

People moving to more 'fertile lands' is no new phenomena. Its human nature! Pity you think you believe it is an exclusive right.

Happy New Year

Nuskin,

I stopped reading your rubbish as soon as you made the cheap, pathetic, idiotic but predicable reference to Jews.

It is clear you are just another Marxist fool on here posting more failed propaganda and lies; I have demolished your straw man already.

So of course you resort to the typical self-appointed PC Commissar smears insinuating that I am a Nazi because I oppose the mass, unnecessary and unmandated immigration into my country, and indeed Europe, which is carried out purely for the warped ideological aspirations of fools like you and not for any tangible reason.

We do not need ANY third world immigration let alone MASS third world immigration; in reality it has brought NO benefits only massive increases in crime, especially rape and the rape of children, massive breakdown of social in cohesion whosesoever these immigrant choose to congregate, massive strain on our benefits system, medical system and economy.

These are some the facts of this mass immigration of Third Worlders:

In Denmark non-whites committed 68% of all rapes, and it was revealed that non-whites were over-represented in all crime by an average of 46% and in Copenhagen 47.5% of prisoners on remand for serious crimes were non-white. In Norway it was found that two out of three charged with rape in Oslo were non-white and that every case of aggravated sexual assault ending in rape over the past three years was committed by non-white immigrants, whilst in Sweden it as found that a rapist was four times more likely to have been born abroad - with Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominating the group of rape suspects and that non-whites were responsible for 25% of all crime in Sweden

"Firemen in Rosengård are forced to acquire helmets

"One has to weigh the risk of a fire spreading to the risks for our personnel"

Rosengård firemen are forced to wear helmets with visors and borrow military bullet-proof vests. "We have reinforced our cars, but they have suffered substantial damage anyway."

"Every day we have an alarm from Rosengård, and we never know what will happen. We want the police in place beforehand. If there's no risk of the fire spreading, we often don't go there at all…"

"Many fires are set just to get us there. Firemen from Jägersro fire station are now equipped with special helmets that protect the face and neck. Last winter, when it was the worst, we were forced to borrow bullet-proof vests from the military."

One senior colleague has quit the force, as he did not feel he could guarantee his men's safety. Several others have asked to be transferred to service elsewhere."

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article5758228.ab

"Surely the real issue is not the colour of your doctor or nurses skin or where they were born but, rather, that when you get sick you get good and competent treatment at minimum cost to taxpayer. If that means recruiting internationally I can't see how that can be a bad thing! Or??"

Mike, obviously that is not a bad thing. A bad thing is when immigration consists of people who are in need of nursing (or schooling, or social security money, or etc.) themselves.

@viking

OMG..You are clearly no NAZI...lol.

"We do not need ANY third world immigration let alone MASS third world immigration; in reality it has brought NO benefits .."

Ha ha ha...They will come anyway and there is sweet naff all you can do to stop it; for all your crying. They are already here and staying!

By the way "Aftonbladet" is still a TABLOID the last time I checked and hope you DO understand the concept of "tabloids"? Good on football, hockey, sensationalism etc.. poor on fact. FACT.

Typical of them type papers - sensationalise rape because its emotive. Mix it with another sensational topic- like ohh immigration. And voila "VikingWarrior" is hooked!

Do you know how simple minded that makes you??

Hauki- I can't argue with that. I think Swedish immigration and welfare policy is quite intelligent, actually, and based on maximising welfare for Sweden. So, personally, am quite happy to take the SOFI study at face value!

Happy New Year!

Mike (this will be my last post cos I have to get back to my work of the paid for variety, which is actually looking at poverty reduction/food security in Africa...)

thelionking,

Yip - typical lies from a Marxist lying fool. And straight back to the smears. You low life piece of trash.

After lying, the second concern of the self-appointed PC Marxist is to try to discredit any source that exposesthe reality and gives the game away.

Your equally idiotic lying friend Nuskin tried the same and thing and he got demolished too.

By the way, seeing as you claim Aftonbladet have faked rape stories and cited a fraudulent source for it as well as stories of firemen needing bullet proof jackets you must have reported them to the police for inciting racial hatred and to the relevant press complaints agencies - can we all have the crime reference number and a copy of the correspondence you have to confirm you have done your civic duty?

Anyhow, you don't like the Aftonbladet articles on the mass immigrant attacks on firemen and crime, including sexual offences? Here it is from this news outlet:

"After months of suffering through thrown rocks and threats directed at his squadron during numerous calls to the Rosengård neighbourhood in Malmö, local fire chief Henrik Persson said on Tuesday he is stepping down from his post…

Firefighters and police officers have long been subject to thrown rocks and threats on calls to the predominantly immigrant neighbourhood, with fire fighters working to introduce measures to make their jobs safer.

"At a recent meeting a police officer said we need to be ready to have Molotov cocktails thrown at us," he said."

http://www.thelocal.se/19130/20090428/

"Immigrants behind 25% of Swedish crime

Immigrants in Sweden are four times more likely to be investigated for lethal violence and robbery than persons born in Sweden to Swedish parents, the National Council for Crime Prevention said on Wednesday.

Immigrants were also three times more likely to be investigated for assault and five times more likely to be investigated for sex crimes.

Among foreigners suspected of offences, those from North Africa and Western Asia were overrepresented."

http://www.thelocal.se/2683/20051214/

Nuskin,

You have been proven completely wrong at every turn; so much so that you now look like the lying fool you are.

The real exposure on your extremely dishonest and agenda ridden approach is how you say you will take "the SOFI study at face value" because it suits and supports your agenda but will question the veracity and creditability of any study or report that questions or does not support your agenda!

And given that you now the terrible cost of just 5% of non-western immigration into Sweden and Scandinavia with its massive increase in crime, rape and the rape of children it reveals how truly twisted you are when you say that you think that "Swedish immigration…is quite intelligent…and based on maximising welfare for Sweden."

Your last post? Good riddance to bad rubbish.

@Viking

Please...please name calling has added NO weight to your argument thus far. In fact it is the EXACT equivalent of the stone throwing you you have laboured on about here ie. vile but gets you sweet naff all but ridicule really.

I am dumbfounded and must apologise to you. Had nt realised how broadly read you are..."Aftonbladet" and "The Local" - GENIUS!!

Have you smelt the coffee in the air, or are you still one of those asleep? You are out numbered even in HERE in this forum, have a look how many you are up against here! No wonder you are so fearfully, but I actually feel sorry for you.

You can believe all you want in your OWN superiority whilst sitting in your soiled underwear barricaded in your home because thoughts of 'the communists' coming to get you...lol.

And the rape of "your" women??! No fella, they are OUR women and those that rape and throw stones (figuratively and actually) are not OUR people. No society wants them. Just like we dont want weavers of hatred. Hate crimes, rape, stone throwing, ALL are crimes. And society tends to put them away sooner or later.

Your 'challenging' reading material sadly wont tell you these sensationalist stories have been tried and tested historically to instill fear and suspicion of anything that was outside the mould of what society knew.

This time round its clearly worked with you and made them a small fortune peddling garbage to the 'great minds' that read whatever they print.

The arbitry walls you built around yourself are falling mate BIG TIME so I undestand your insecurity because you know YOU CANT WIN....WILL NEVER WIN.

thelionking,

As usual, your comment was just a pure and utter waste of everyone's time; especially your own.

Not only did you initiate insults in lieu of substance, but you post them here too! I call you a lying fool and a lying idiot and I am right - you are. You just use foul abuse because you have no argument.

That you are a liar is proved over and over again, but just to demonstrate it again you attribute a quote to me - "And the rape of "your" women??!" - when I haven't actually used the term "our" or "your" in regards of Swedish women (not that they are not, I just haven't) - it is your pure invention; you made it up; you lied, yet again - and then post it as fact.

That is your level.

Of course, when challenged about the veracity of Aftonbladet reports…

"By the way, seeing as you claim Aftonbladet have faked rape stories and cited a fraudulent source for it as well as stories of firemen needing bullet proof jackets you must have reported them to the police for inciting racial hatred and to the relevant press complaints agencies - can we all have the crime reference number and a copy of the correspondence you have to confirm you have done your civic duty?"

… and been provided with The Local reports as well that substantiate them in any case you have to try and rubbish The Local as well!!

You are a just an irrelevant lying fool who will choke on his words election after election when the SD enter parliament and add more and more numbers each.

Here is the truth about our 'enrichment' in Scandinavia:

In Denmark non-whites committed 68% of all rapes, and it was revealed that non-whites were over-represented in all crime by an average of 46% and in Copenhagen 47.5% of prisoners on remand for serious crimes were non-white. In Norway it was found that two out of three charged with rape in Oslo were non-white and that every case of aggravated sexual assault ending in rape over the past three years was committed by non-white immigrants, whilst in Sweden it as found that a rapist was four times more likely to have been born abroad - with Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominating the group of rape suspects and that non-whites were responsible for 25% of all crime in Sweden

"Alarmed at last week's police statistics, which revealed that in 68% of all rapes committed this year the perpetrator was from an ethnic minority, leading Muslim organisations have now formed an alliance to fight the ever-growing problem of young second and third-generation immigrants involved in rape cases against young Danish girls."

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/1-latest-news/27877.html

'Viking'

You brought up RAPE time and time again matey...

You cant say tongue in cheeks stuff on 3rd Worlders and hope noone out here catches the undertones of your messages of hate.

The description..."marauding hordes intent on little more than raping and pillaging." has been used to describe people (NOT in Aftonbladet tyvaar!!) I wont spoil it for you by telling you who's been described so. Birds coming home to roost.

Happy New from life outside the Bunker...

thelionking,

So the lying fool cannot admit he has been caught out lying once more and continues unabated with more lies!

I bring up rape and the rape of children as a crime perpetrated in the majority and massively disproportionately by Third World immigrants in Scandinavia because I think it is extremely important to keep woman and children safe and especially from such dangerous risks we can prevent.

You obviously couldn't care less about it and the truth and wish it would go away / stop being posted because it seriously exposes the extreme folly of this mass immigration of Third World immigrants.

You have no argument at all; you have no substance to post; all you have is lies and insults and failed attempts to discredit the truth.

You are a disgrace.

Lets talk about violence as well then:

Here is some enrichment benefits for the New Year; the first one in France, where the Third World immigrants continue their pretty much non-stop war on the French on New Years Eve / day. (replace the youtube URL before backslash

The second is a Dane unfortunate enough to come across a gang immigrants on New Years eve who demanded his fireworks; he dared to say no to these people that Denmark thought they were so kind in taking in, and he paid a high price for it.

/watch?v=yhJPcLEK6zY&feature=player_embedded

"Beaten half to death over fireworks dispute

Robbers beat a man with an iron club and kicked him when he refused to hand over his fireworks — police searching for a gang of immigrants

His chin and nose got smashed. Several bones were broken and his spleen was destroyed.

That's how New Years Eve ended for a 53-year-old man from Frederiksberg after he became the victim of unmotivated violence which could have killed him. He got away with his life intact but is still hospitalized and is being treated for the extensive damage he received when a group of young immigrants attacked him because he refused to hand over his fireworks.

The assault happened early this morning at Flintholm Alle in Frederiksberg where the 53-year-old man, together with some friends, was celebrating the evening with fireworks.

A group of between five and six youngsters came to him and demanded that he gave his fireworks to them. He refused and was smashed. Blows and kicks were 'raining' down on him. He was also hit at least 20 times when he was lying down on the frozen ground.

"We have no clues about the group, so we would very much like to hear from witnesses. It is an unusually heinous assault. The man's injuries are extensive," the police say to Ekstra Bladet."

http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article1276510.ece

Viking

OMG...what are you like?...thought you said you had separated yourself from the 'our' women thing?

I feel so SORRY for you mate...ok you win!!!!

......I give up.You are ABSOLUTELY right 3rd Worlders are naturally conditioned rapist, uneducated with nothing to contribute but servitude (from a safe distance) so should stay where they belong....As for all you 3rd worlders already here, must seriously consider packing their bags because of all the problems Aftonbladet has 'clearly' identified......

I will sleep very soundly knowing you are NOT sleeping well.

Cheers for

thelionking,

Yip - more lies and inventions from you because hey, that's all you have.

The 'our' women 'thing' was your invention and still is; I haven't said it once. Its your lie and your sticking to it.

Third Worlders are responsible for the majority of rapes in Scandinavia and that is a fact; no amount of lies, insults and distraction will change that you lying fool.

"Two out of three charged with rape in Norway's capital are immigrants with a non-western background according to a police study. The number of rape cases is also rising steadily...

The study is the first where the crime statistics have been analyzed according to ethnic origin.

Of the 111 charged with rape in Oslo last year, 72 were of non-western ethnic origin, 25 are classified as Norwegian or western and 14 are listed as unknown...

Rape charges in the capital are spiraling upwards, 40 percent higher from 1999 to 2000 and up 13 percent so far this year."

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article190268.ece

"Alarmed at last week's police statistics, which revealed that in 68% of all rapes committed this year the perpetrator was from an ethnic minority, leading Muslim organisations have now formed an alliance to fight the ever-growing problem of young second and third-generation immigrants involved in rape cases against young Danish girls."

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/1-latest-news/27877.html

"According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects."

aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article327666.ab

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......