Fifth of Swedish population foreign

Fifth of Swedish population foreign

Published: 29 Jan 10 14:08 CET
Updated: 29 Jan 10 17:35 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/24678/20100129/

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Latest figures from Statistics Sweden reveal that in the last 50 years the number of foreigners living in Sweden or those with two foreign-born parents has risen from four to nearly 20 percent.

A new report from Statistics Sweden (Statistiska Centralbyrån, SCB) reveals there are around 1.6 million foreigners currently residing in the country from a total population of 9.3 million.

Annika Klinterfeldt, SCB population analyst told The Local the numbers are not surprising, with the total now surpassing 17 percent and edging ever closer to the 20 percent mark.

“If we look at the trend over the last 50 years we can see growth in number of between 0.1-0.2 percent every year.

“Back in 1960, foreigners or those with two foreign-born parents made up four percent of the population. It’s been quite high for the last few years and we expect it to continue,” she added.

Those included in the figures are defined by having lived in Sweden for one year or more, although they do not have to be Swedish citizens.

Statistics Sweden does not differentiate between immigrants who have come to Sweden for asylum reasons and others who have moved here for love or work.

Finland has historically dominated the number of foreign settlers in Sweden and tops the table with 256,975 Finns residing across the border today.

Within Europe, Poland’s accession to the EU prompted a highly-publicised exodus from the country and a total of 78,522 Poles currently live in Sweden, the most represented country among the 27 EU nations.

There are 59,852 Germans who have adopted Sweden as home along with 22,416 from Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Included in the Asian category, but not subdivided in the yearly report, are 142,053 Iraqis, 75,175 Iranians, 44,415 Lebanese, 35,886 Syrians, 27,552 Thais, 21,322 Chinese, 20,111 Vietnamese, 18 534 Indians, 14,292 Afghans, 9,818 Filipinos, 10,831 Koreans (North and South), and 10,823 Pakistanis.

Africans make up 48,710 of the total, with South Americans accounting for 29,689.

North America is represented by 33,222 people, with 17,540 of those coming from the US.

Australia and New Zealand are combined in the Oceania category of the report, represented by 4,214 people who have presently swapped sunnier climes for the Swedish winter.

External link: Statistical Yearbook, see page 107 for full list »

Christine Demsteader
news@thelocal.se

Christine Demsteader is a freelance writer based in Stockholm.

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15:36 January 29, 2010 by krigeren
The third largest population is from Iraq. Over 100,00 Iraqi's. are now in Sweden. We must find productive uses for their talents as soon as possible.

Whats funny about the statistics on page 107 is is groups everyone from Asia together and does not break it down by country within the tables.

Nowhere else is it mentioned in the yearbook an expanded and detailed list of aggregate numbers for foreigners based on the country they came from.

To do that you have to go to SCB and pull a customized excel table (which anyone can do).

Whats most interesting are the trends since the 1970's a decrease in other nordic country populations in aggregate, and substantial increases in immigrants from Europe and Asia (which includes the middle east).

By any comparison Sweden is a multi-cultural society with more foreign born residents and children of foreign born residents than the US and UK and close to that of Australia and Canada. Compared to Norway and Denmark the immigrant populations are nearly 3 times as high per capita and compared to Finland 7 times as high.

Sweden is now at a crossroads. Does it become a world leader in immigration policy, i.e., integration, opportunity and the ability for immigrants to realize their full potential or does it maintain the status quo?
16:05 January 29, 2010 by saab
Interesting note from Krigeren who writes "Sweden is now at a crossroads. Does it become a world leader in immigration policy, i.e., integration, opportunity and the ability for immigrants to realize their full potential or does it maintain the status quo?".

From my perspective, the future of Sweden, as Sweden, is clearly in doubt. That is quite unfortunate. I do not believe that the world will be a better place if we all look alike. Swedish culture, Swedish art, Swedish cooking, Swedish sensibilities and yes, even Swedish cars add immeasurably to the world community. As so too Danish and Finish and Norwegian and Spanish and French attributes. To think that all these immigrants, especially Iraqis, Somalis, Turks and others will raise their children to have those Swedish sensibilities is pure madness. Some immigration is fine, but each society should stand for something. Multiculturalism is a fancy word for dilution and disintegration. What an unfortunate course of events. Let the US be the world leader in immigration... at least Americans have that as part of their tradition. Sweden's obligation is not first and foremost a role in seeing to it that immigrants realize "their full potential". Sweden has an obligation to Swedish history, Swedish ethics and Swedish culture. In five years, will the headline be "One-third of Swedish population foreign"? In ten years will the headline be "One half of Swedish population foreign"?. And after that? "Swedes now a minority in Sweden". When that comes true, don't come crying. Sam Huntington and Mark Steyn warned you.
16:46 January 29, 2010 by irishmark
"22,416 from the UK and Northern Ireland."

Sorry to be picky, but Northern Ireland is part of the UK. ..or to give it its full title, "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

You may not care, but that's my two öre worth :)
17:01 January 29, 2010 by summer
it seems that their is no african in sweden since the study did not mention them
17:04 January 29, 2010 by krigeren
I dont think picking a fight over this is anyway to reach a solution. The fact remains we have large amounts of unemployed immigrants...which is unhealthy for a society.

Something needs to be done about it and now.
17:19 January 29, 2010 by vladd777
Ho hum..well I'm from South Africa and so is my son..ergo 2
17:31 January 29, 2010 by LailaC1
I believe it is all about integration and acceptance of Sweden's values and culture. It is wonderful to experience other cultures but more important to respect those of the place you have decided to live/work.
17:33 January 29, 2010 by thepursuitofhappyness
"it seems that their is no african in sweden since the study did not mention them"

I was thinking the same thing, why did they not include Africans or South Americans in the statistics ?
17:40 January 29, 2010 by Rick Methven
Fifth of Swedish population foreign

Typical The Local another bad headline to get comments coming in!

Divide 1.6 by 9.3 and what do you get?

Not 20% but 17.2%

Hej the local get a calculator!!
17:46 January 29, 2010 by efm
Saab

I tend to agree that Immigration is a part of the US tradition. Without Immigration, what will US be now, perhaps still a nomadic country with only American Indians.

However American Indians also contribute to the fabric which is America.

I just can't understand why after some of these folks(Thais, Vietnamese, Lebanese,

Filipinos, Iraqis, Koreans), become acclimatized and become productive members ofSwedish society, still you think of it a dillution or dissintegration, to quote your words. Why can't they be considered Korean-Swedish as an example?

May I remind Saab, that Sweden does not have the monopoly for sensibilities, character, moral, or even talent.

If you(Sweden) need immigrants, then admit whatever you need, but I detest the idea that some how these people are somewhat a dillution of puritanical culture. Maybe, Sweden needs an infusion of new ideas, culture and hard working people to correct for boring, narrow minded, corrupted and bigoted way of thinking.
18:02 January 29, 2010 by insect
@ summer and thepursuitofhappyness

They mentioned Africa in the following paragraph: Africans make up 48,710 of the total, with South Americans accounting for 29,689.
18:06 January 29, 2010 by Torontonian
How ironic that this comes after the article "Jews flee Malmö as anti-Semitism grows". OUT with the old IN with the new.
18:12 January 29, 2010 by texasgubbar
No Africans???? Just go to any football match and you know that is not true....

Swedish cooking??? As good at lutfisk and herring along with any vegetable you want (as long as it is patatos) may be, the addition of the multitude of kebab and Thai places is very welcome.
18:22 January 29, 2010 by mogreen
To all you narrow minded people out there, you need to realise that we live in a globalised community and most developed countries in the world will have similar statistics. Most of the so called foreigners are from fellow European countries like Finland, Germany and Poland. It's time to accept new realities and see what positive aspects of these so called foreign cultures we can adopt. If we don't evolve we'll become extinct.
18:48 January 29, 2010 by coswede
everyone PANIC!!!
19:01 January 29, 2010 by peropaco
Great; I should be this lucky... Just more people to harass and endanger my life if they see me wearing a kippah. Maybe I should move to Dubai or Kuwait. Probably much safer there for me and me kids.
19:50 January 29, 2010 by moaca
@efm -

To claim Sweden being narrowminded, boring and bigoted is rather funny. Do you live in Sweden? If so, why? If not, who are you to pass judgement? This article may not be a 100% correct, but the fact remains that this country does not have so many people living in it. And Sweden has for many years opened their doors to many fugitives and immigrants. I think Swedes in general are rather tolerant, but they do not like being taken advantage of. Neither does any other European country.

if I turned the table around, how many Swedes go abroad to settle elsewhere? What percentage wants to live in Korea, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia etc??

No, I didnt think so. Why? Because we would have to adapt to their ways. We would have to adjust ourselves to their countries habits and rules. So why should we not ask the same? When being in Rome, act like the Romans. And Multiculti doent work, some of us are simply to different and will clash as Swedish people do not have the same mentality as those who we welcomed in to our country. Not because we dont try, but because these other cultures find it difficult to adjust as well. And it is not easy, I know by own experience! I agree that we should benefit from the competence these people have to offer, but the reality is that if a Swedish person looks for a position against an Iraqi person, the Swede would be chosen. Why? Because employers cannot always check if this person actually has the skills needed for the job. If they cannot prove this, then how can you trust what they say is true?

We have had foreign doctors practising in Sweden and they turned out not to be doctors at all. They simply lied there way in to the job with a little bit of bluffing and bullsh*t. When this happens, trust runs thin for the Swedes.
19:52 January 29, 2010 by randyt
Seems to be some hand wringing here and immigrant bashing - but it could just be Sweden has figured out how a civilized society should live and may folks chose to move there vs. fighting for real change in their native country. Check out this blog on The Local blogger pages.

"When I first considered going to Sweden longterm, it was partially as a result of that feeling. After an exhausting fight to become a candidate to represent my neigborhood in the Kentucky Senate, I had a realization. I could stay in America and fight for the rest of my life toward noble goals - goals that lobbying groups and corporations have long since claimed as unattainable - or I could just move somewhere where everything is already fixed."

http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/snuggling/2010/01/21/alternate/
21:07 January 29, 2010 by Kevtravels
So basically the govt makes no difference between refugees from Somalia, Congo, North Korea and immigrants like say Chileans,Canadians,Japanese. That's quite odd. Plus it says it counts anyone with foreign parents as an immigrant or foreigner regardless if they were born here.

Plus basically all Finns in Sweden are Swedish/Finnish or close to being quite native Swedish. I think the article is presented to inform Swedes that A)It is a modern multicultural country B)that foreigners enjoy Sweden and thus they are good.

But I think Sweden more or less imported its diversity and multiculturalism unlike how it came to be in the USA, Australia, Canada.
21:31 January 29, 2010 by wxman
For further information as to the side-effects of this policy, read the accompanying article about the taxi driver. Sometimes you just reap what you sow.
21:47 January 29, 2010 by Nordic Prince
I cant wait to see it 50%
21:51 January 29, 2010 by jonathon
"However American Indians also contribute to the fabric which is America."

American Indians are a figment of your imagination. Native Americans as a people have been pushed on to reservation, driven to poverty, and seen the most succes through circumventation of the laws that the surounding area by selling tax free cigerettes and openeing casinos.

Being a person born in the United Staes that has come to settel in Sweden(my wife can't stand the Texas heat) it is easy to see in my SFI classes a great number of fellow students that are excited for the freedom of experssion that Sweden affords them. They have little desire to be Swedish, only to be succesful in Sweden.

I am in a tizzy about this whole issue. All i can do is try to learn the language, and contribute in such a way that I feel like i deserve to be here. However the stigma that comes with being a foriegner comes up with every, "Jag can inte prata sa mycket Svenske."
22:13 January 29, 2010 by gookha
Swedish people should very soon stop eating falafel and thai food....and stick to meat BALLS....hehehe...
22:18 January 29, 2010 by Puffin
Well Sweden has a strange way of counting - according to the statistics my kids are 'immigrants' however thery were born in Sweden and are Swedish citizens
22:29 January 29, 2010 by powerofknowledge
@ Puffin

exactly i partly agree u can see at Canada where only 20 or 30 % are aboriginal (or may be less!) BUT the others are Canadians also, its similar in US
22:32 January 29, 2010 by Nordic Prince
Sweden should have more blacks and arabs, so we live all in peace
22:55 January 29, 2010 by efm
Who am I to pass judgement?

Well folks, this is a forum, right? What do you expect, only a right wing Swedish

view?

To Jonathon: I almost did what you did, but i decided to stay in the US. After studying and reading more about it, it was the best for me. Now, perhaps, Sweden is right for you and more power to you, despite being "stigmatized".
23:18 January 29, 2010 by Alex Coman
Some of those folks are in Sweden only for work/money, maybe some for health system or safer streets...

I don t think immigrants go to Sweden because they love the Swedish people, the natives, or Swedish culture, Swedish art, Swedish cooking, Swedish sensibilities and yes, even Swedish cars. Wake up!

Why you, Swedish, want so much to be loved? Or respected? Do you respect or love the others??? C mon...
23:24 January 29, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@Alex Coman

Show me a nation that is so-kind and so-nice to almost everyone as the swedish nation ???
00:06 January 30, 2010 by krigeren
If I have a kitchen full of eggs, onions, peppers, bacon and some cream. I don't blame the peppers for there being too many. Nor do I complain there is not enough bacon.

I make an omelet.

Work with what you have and make the best of it.

We can't change the demographics as they exist right now. However, we can make the best of them and plan better for the future in the long term.
00:11 January 30, 2010 by Taz Mania
I'm one of them.

And may I add what an amazing winter we are having.

TM
00:19 January 30, 2010 by Investor612
>

B as in B and S as in S.

Indians(that's how they most commonly refer to themselves) can live anywhere they wish and over half live off reservations.

If the Comanche had kicked paleface ass, would my kids be getting race preferences, exclusives on gaming, and an exemption from some taxes.

The subsidized worthlessness of reservations, the longest lived example oif the welfare state in the US, are a a great example of the futility of government dependence.
00:23 January 30, 2010 by glamelixir
It is funny how immigrants for Sweden means middle east refugees....

What about us real immigrants! EU immigrants who are free movers?
00:41 January 30, 2010 by krigeren
@glamelixir I don't think its fair to pigeon hole a given ethnic minority in Sweden. All immigrants face challenges here and have more in common with one another due to those challenges, whether it be, work, education, or being accepted.
00:48 January 30, 2010 by Steggles
Can you add me to the 4,214 Aussies & New Zealander's......I would like to swap for Sweden's winter rather than Australia's hot dusty summer.
00:59 January 30, 2010 by wildwester
I love Sweden and vhave visited several times, I admire that they have managed to keep their traditions unlike us in the UK that have been forced into multi-culturalism. Sweden do not make the same mistake we have it does not work, do not lose your traditions and be forced into becoming so politcally correct native Swedes are too scared to speak out or branded racist when they do.
01:05 January 30, 2010 by harrylatour
I am a Brit of 70 years and back in the 60s in England most young lads wanted to immigrate to Canada,New Zealand,Aus', etc,,,but my best friend Ray decided he wanted to go to Sweden!! and it was!!!! back then i can tell you.We (his friends,) said he will be back,,,,but he never did come back to England apart from holidays.He married a local Swede girl,had two children wiyh her and was NEVER out of work!! HE INTERGRATED,,,he learned Swedish so good that he tought English/Swedish in night classes.He was a credit to us in England who he left and a credit to Sweden too his adopted country.He is dead now and buried IN SWEDEN.He is the sort of immigrant that all European countries want,,,,NO DESERVE,,,,if you want to immigrate,,,,intergrate. Harry
01:07 January 30, 2010 by Roy E
What a sad and depressing statistic. The Swedish government has embraced suicide for the Swedish people who are now destined to become little more than a 'lost tribe' footnote in the history books.
01:19 January 30, 2010 by Taz Mania
Really the winter is amazing. Down here in Skåne I haven't seen anything like it in the 7 years I have been here. Us Immigrants are a lucky bunch. I love the swedish seasons. I love the Swedes, I love the optimism even though it's coveted under a popularised trend toward pessimism. Of course I have my cultural differences.. But in the end we are all a big mixing pot. Wars will come... peace will proceed.. enlightenment will prevail.

We have consciousness. We are Brave. We believe in what we believe.

Give your neighbour a smile. If they frown, ask them whats' the matter? Talk. Communicate. Recognise our similarities and embrace them, laugh at our differences. We all have our own truths. Honestly.. We have a life to live together.

I come from nowhere.

Where do you come from?

Pleased to meet you.

Love,

Taz Mania
02:21 January 30, 2010 by JoeSwede
I love Sweden. I love Swedish culture. It's destined to change now that 20% of the country has foreign influence. And most of the 20% are young so as a percentage of the young, the amount could be as high as 40%. Sweden will change. All things change.
03:10 January 30, 2010 by Celc
Sigh, Thelocal has such a tiering discussion as usual with immigrants complaining about racy Swedes, taxes, blandness and nothing ever been good enough while random Swedes are shouting of nonsensical patriotism and reinforcing the image of racy Sweden.

As a natural born Swede that has lived here all my life, I love it. The more the merrier. Tradition is overrated and conservatism is fundamentally flawed to begin with. Nobody wants to go back to the middle ages, the great depression or back when there was a huge building crisis in Sweden in the 60's. Things change, embrace the future or be unhappy.
03:31 January 30, 2010 by Davey-jo
I'm trying to imagine a future where these 20% do not exist. It's kind of unpleasant; bloody and well, you don't really want to go there.

I think Northern Europeans have got to accept that they are going to be darker skinned than they are used to. It's the result of Northern European women having babies by men from elsewhere. It's not the fault of Northern men just a choice of Northern women. Southern women may well choose blond silent types ...?

All these babies are your future. You don't have to live in their world; you'll be gone by then.Just don't mess them up too much ...
04:08 January 30, 2010 by Rutkowski
As someone who was born in Sweden to Swedish and German parents and have lived here for my entire life, I find this to be a great development. People from around the world enrichen our extremely non-existant culture and stimulates our economy in a way that will see Sweden become one of Europe's most economically powerful states in a not too distant future.

All people need to do is stop looking at newly arrived Swedes(cause Sweden is nothing but lines on a map; if you come to Sweden to live here you are a Swede to me) as a burden and start looking at them as an investment.

Not to mention that it's great to finally be able to speak with my neighbours as traditionally Swedes are extremely bad at such things.
04:34 January 30, 2010 by krigeren
@Rutkowski

It's amazing, we are the reason

Everybody fired up this evening

I'm exhausted, barely breathing

Holding on to what we believe in

No matter what you'll never take that from us

Our reign is as far as your eyes can see

It's amazin', so amazin', so amazin', so amazin'

It's amazin', so amazin', so amazin', so amazin'

It's amazin.................
05:03 January 30, 2010 by Kaethar
@Rutkowski: As a fellow Swede of mixed parentage I am offended by your claims. Are you channeling Mona Sahlin's spirit? Sweden does not have an "extremely non-existant culture." In fact, Sweden has a very rich culture, something which you'd probably realise had you ever stepped foot out of the country. And no, not everyone who "arrives" in Sweden is Swedish. Mona Sahlin also said that everyone living here is Swedish since we "breathe the same air." I was hoping no one else was that retarded but I guess you're an exception. Swedish is a CULTURAL term, To be Swedish you have to be RAISED in Sweden - to speak the language and to know the culture and societal norms (which immigrants may think they know but never get completely right).

I sincerely hope you're trolling. The alternative is far too depressing.
06:10 January 30, 2010 by Norrlands Turk
"Fifth of Swedish population foreign" so what?

How skilled are they? What do they add to Sweden? I am pretty sure they get social help from Sweden's agencies when they need to. But are they skilled enough to repay that help back in one way or another?

Sweden is basically just crowding out skilled foreign workforce by allocating all the resources to unskilled ones. I don't even wanna talk about the numbers given above. "142,053 Iraqis, 75,175 Iranians" are u f..king kidding? what's the total population of Sweden? 80 million? how are u gonna handle this many people with same nationality who have whole a lot different background?
07:32 January 30, 2010 by xenyasai
@uunbeliever: Xenophobia? How is this xenophobic? When did statistics become xenophobic? I do not think you have experienced xenophobia before.
07:42 January 30, 2010 by skatty
The funniest thing, I have seen. I don't know if the SCB did this calculation or the local but obviously:

(1.6/9.3)*100=17.2

AND

(1/5)*100=20

So, there is 17.2% foreign-born populated and not 20%

I can't get what is the point to try so hard to show the number of the foreign born is high in Sweden! A great number of them live in ghettos! even a greater number are unemployed or have to work unskilled jobs, and the greatest number have not any Swedish friend or contact with Swedes at all in their private life!!
08:42 January 30, 2010 by Weekend_warrior
hmmm....

Privatize and Capitalize! Sweden with their Swedish and western lifestyle will adapt and continue to flourish. Others will seep through, but most will fall by the waist-side.

Maintain the status quo...
09:12 January 30, 2010 by Britswedeguy
There is only so much multiculturalism any society can take, especially when the dominant immigrant group is from societies as backwards as the ones found in the Middle East, that promote a high birth rate and have little respect for other cultures themselves.

The US is responsible for most of this displacement - they should pay the price, not Sweden!
09:17 January 30, 2010 by Rick Methven
@skatty

So, there is 17.2% foreign-born populated and not 20%

No that is not correct

from the stats I quote

Foreign-born as percent of all inhabitants 01 Jan 2009 13.8%

So the locals margin of error has gone from 2.8% to 6.2%

Great sensational tabloid journalism
11:59 January 30, 2010 by Puffin
The problem comes from the fact that SCB do not ONLY count people who immigrate to Sweden as immigrants - but also the children of immigrants - this is how they get 20% and is something I find very strange.

I am counted as an immigrant - fair enough as I actually moved here from the UK

My 2 children are ALSO counted as immigrants by SCB - even though

- both of my children were BORN in Sweden

- both of my children are SWEDISH citizens

So according to Swedish statistics you can be born in Sweden and be a Swedish citizen but still be an immigrant - logical???
12:49 January 30, 2010 by cogito
@puffin

'Well Sweden has a strange way of counting - according to the statistics my kids are 'immigrants' however thery were born in Sweden and are Swedish citizens...'

Yes, that's right. Sweden, like Germany, uses blood as a criterion for who gets to be 'äkta svensk.' Born here, but with one parent not born here? You are an immigrant.

Nations less fixated on racial purity, e.g., France or the USA, base citizenship on an abstract idea that you must subscribe to. In France: 'Liiberté Egalité Fraternite´. In the U.S., the abstract ideal is 'the inalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.'
14:15 January 30, 2010 by skatty
@Rick Methven

You see, I am not really sure about SCB and its statistics either!

As an example the number for unemployment was an issue, which right and left had an argue about it in the last election (ended up to the win of right). When according to SCB there was something like 4% to 5% unemployment, which the left and the people on the power wanted to keep the suitable number, the right said it was over 16%. Why, simply because hidden unemployment was not calculated as unemployed, and everybody knew it but nobody wanted to confess it. You see people can be registered in a program to learn how to write a CV and it means they are employed (hidden unemployment, very popular in Sweden). So, I'm not even sure the 13.8% foreign-born is really foreign-born. Swedes love to play with numbers to make it suitable for their needs!
14:17 January 30, 2010 by Rutkowski
@Kaethar; nope, completely serious and not a troll. I wrote up a long post on how we're nothing but a mutt culture due to our trading roots and how even what some consider the foundation of Swedish culture is taken from other cultures, mostly the Germanic ones, but the website ate the post so it all got lost.

In short, I've yet to see one thing of Swedish "culture" that isn't taken from other cultures.
14:22 January 30, 2010 by Roy E
At what point does Sweden cease to be Sweden, beyond being the name of a land mass, that is ? At what point is 'Swedish' rendered a meaningless term? It seems that to many, it already is.
14:27 January 30, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
If anything this is nothing less than testimony to Sweden's great humanitarian generosity and tolerance by providing a home for those who have fled persecution and intolerance, violence, poverty and lack of democracy and opportunity in their places of origin.

All this contributes to the notion of Sweden being a great Nation - and of Sweden having been a great Immigrant Nation - and there too there is a point of Saturation

Here's my partial response to the news:

http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2010/01/30/the-forthcoming-elections/
14:28 January 30, 2010 by Alex Coman
Sweden was far from trouble for centuries. No WW1, no WW2, no civil war, no ethnic trouble no nothing. So Swedish people can t fight easy now against the troubles on the horizon. And they are just 8 mil ???

About culture, please, read some books! Iranians, Iraqi, Pakistani and others come from greater cultures by far.
14:42 January 30, 2010 by glamshek
Immigrants must socialize, but not integrate. The beauty is seen when an individual color shows its presence.
14:50 January 30, 2010 by Kaethar
@Rutkowski: I am extremely offended by that insulting post but I know you're not to blame for your ignorance. Any social scientist will tell you that culture is a constantly evolving phenomena. There is no such thing as a static culture. Get it? NO culture is static. Point 2 - Sweden is a Germanic country. Point 3 - there certainly are cultural elements that are exclusively Swedish - from speaking Swedish as a language to watching Donald Duck on Christmas Eve.

I would rather have 100 immigrants who like Swedish culture than one Swede (such as yourself) that doesn't. If you dislike Swedish culture (or Swedish society since you deny the existence of a Swedish culture) you are free to leave. There are 7-25 million people in the world who would love to live in Sweden because of our culture. You won't be missed. :)

@Alex Coman: What constitutes as a "greater culture" is subjective. You are free to move to any of those countries if you prefer their cultures to the Swedish though. :)
14:59 January 30, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
OK Alex Coman:

Let me say what you would like to hear me say, in the name of common sense:

Your convoluted conclusions are quite interesting, except that you've already shot yourself in the leg. The expression "from the frying pan to the fire" would sound less inverted (a reverse flow) should the refugees from Iran (I-ran) Iraq (from Halabja & Saddamic Hussein's alleged high culture) and the crucible that is now Pakistan-on-fire) return to from where they came.

About Iraq, the scoundrel Tony Blair says that he would do it again (if he had to):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8485694.stm

So there's mass emigration from the great cultures of Iran, Iraq and Pakistan, all the way to the Dhimmi Culture of dar al-harb in Sweden.

Please tell us why there is no similar emigration from China, India, Greece (where the term democracy was coined) and Rome who also had an empire. (Ever heard of the Holy Roman Empire?

That's where many from the trouble spots of Iran, Iraq and al-Qaedis from Pakistan would like to set up base for their holy Muslim caliphate and ask us all to bow down and face Mecca when they pray, OK?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rlz=1R2GGLL_enSE351&q=Dhimmi

Do yourself a favour: check out the meanings of Dhimmi and Dhimmitude and try to resolve any contradiction in Human rights terms, between equality and Dhimmitude and why non-Muslims should be second-class citizens in Europe once the Islamic Empire transfers to Europe and Sweden becomes a province in such an Empire. Do I hear We Sweden say "Heaven Forbid!"?

Fi Fan också !
15:06 January 30, 2010 by Uncle
Alex

"About culture, please, read some books! Iranians, Iraqi, Pakistani and others come from greater cultures by far"

Pity that they are like sharks - developed once and then did not change for hundreds of years... Name 5 famous contributions to the human knowledge from these countries in the past 100 years.

Do not consider the opposing to the government writers. Their achievements do not reflect advanced society, but the influence of the advanced societies in Europe and N. America.
15:11 January 30, 2010 by uunbeliever
@xenyasai Xenophobia is a dislike and/or fear of that which is unknown or different from oneself. Swedes are terrified that the lovely tradition of eating sur strömmning and the midsommer pole will disappear. I was referring to the comments, not the statistics, and if mellan Svensson wasn't xenophobic this would not be headlines.
15:22 January 30, 2010 by Roy E
@unnbeliever #72, Sorry, but 'xenophobia', like 'racism', have evolved into words that are intended to shut down debate and stifle honest, open discussion. That is now their only value as they have been misused so many times that they've lost their original meaning. The odds are that anyone using them today does so dishonestly.
15:51 January 30, 2010 by cjordan
Seriously, is there any country that loves immigrants that come to your country, to soley live off of the government. NO! Hell, it is horrible when citizens of your country drain your tax money. Sweden is not the only country in the world that has issues with this. The bad thing is when people to come to countries illegally and mooch. That is not a positive addition. There are many people that immigrate and get it right though. It just seems so many focus on the negative, and everyone gets a bad name.
16:01 January 30, 2010 by Alex Coman
:) To Cornelius Hamelberg:

There s no emigration from China, India, Greece and Italy????????????????????????????????????? You must read more books mister, or see more tv! There s a lot of China towns, Hindu towns, Little Italy, and Little Greece in the western world. Chinese people are the most in this matter, and I m sure sure you know it. They, chinese, are everywhere! In fact, there s a lot of brits too leaving their country now, as we speak. And about Europe becoming a Muslim Empire, believe me, this is a joke.

To uncle:

Mister, do you think nazi Germany was a developed society? What about today Israel? You know what Norway government did to disabled kids or to german soldiers kids born from Norvegian mothers after the WW2?
16:13 January 30, 2010 by skatty
@cjordan

It's right what you say not any country like the immigrants to come to their country and live on welfare. The fact is that I don't believe even immigrants like to come in a country to live on welfare, and it's wrong to look at them as parasite in the society.

A major number of people, who come illegally into this country, are refugees, who remarkable number of them are intelligent people, ran away from war, or for political reasons. Everybody look for a better life and related to his/her ability try to reach his/her aims. If Sweden accepts the refugees and gives them the right to live in this country as a citizen then it's responsible to behave with them as a citizen with the full citizenship right. But if it can't give them this right then doesn't have to give them the citizenship. The refugees will figure out to get somewhere else more suitable.
17:21 January 30, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
Yes the Great Alex,

Indeed we must read more books and watch less tv !

Originally we all came from Africa - and Africa as we know is also the cradle of great civilisations and vast empires.

At secondary school our English teacher Major Von Bradshaw lectured us about the great Chinese civilisation - and we now know that like the Jews, the Chinese have been around a long time; Gavin Menzies has even written his controversial "1421" in which he attributes the Renaissance in Europe directly to the Chinese impetus and the Chinese being the harbingers of such civilisation to Europe's shores and "1434" is an on-going discussion about the Chinese' impact on world history and general contributions to world civilisation:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rlz=1R2GGLL_enSE351&q=Gavin+Menzies

We are also conversant with Islamic Civilisation and Muslims and pre-Islamic contributions to science, to mathematics, astronomy, architecture, medicine, philosophy whereby Europe gained access to Greek philosophy through translations from the Arabic) Law, poetry etc. and even about Islam's impact - perhaps through a symbiotic relationship - on Judaism and the history of the Jewish people and on Europe:

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/

And then what happened?

Retracing Islam's steps retroactively and in retrospect has been an interesting exercise and that history generates quite another discussion altogether.
18:57 January 30, 2010 by Alex Coman
All I try to say is a simple thing: they are not coming from nowhere, and Europeans are not angels. Nazi Germany show us who we really are.

About muslims...well, here, where I live(in Romania) a lot of criminals are turkish who can kill you for a cigarette. These days a lot of good people were attacked and robbed by those turkish. When the weather is good, most of them just sit in front of their houses all day long drinking and smoking. MOST OF THEM ARE THUGS WITH A CRIMINAL RECORD. A man I know, who is now in hospital in coma after he was attacked by two turkish thugs, told me he could find out who will become a criminal from birth, because their mother have no papers for ID, no proper hygienic education, no personal things, no father for ID, no nothing. Police can t do anything against them (nothing new about this) .

Their wives work hard like slaves to keep their houses, and they have a lot of kids. This is not a story, believe me.

But this is not because they are muslims.

Once we ll know the cause, we ll know the cure. But the cure is not the nazi final solutions. Don t you this so too, Mister Hamelberg?
19:31 January 30, 2010 by Zero
In Fiji the native Fijians are a minority to Hindus who moved to the islands during the British colonial period. Native Hawaiians make up only 10% of the Hawaiian islands population. I hope the same thing happens to Sweden. With the Swedish birthrate so low, and the immigration rate, and immigrants' birthrates so high, it should only be a matter of time before the same thing happens to them. Swedes are so stuck up that I can't wait until their "culture" is wiped out, or at least marginalized to the point of being insignificant.
20:20 January 30, 2010 by Cheapjack
i can't see how a country that has such a high standard of living deserves to be wiped out. Perhaps,because, unlike some cultures , it isn't based on selfishness and promotes responsiblility not only to yourself but to others. Some people don't like that.

If these sort of people have their way we ALL will be wiped out, with global warming.
20:38 January 30, 2010 by Zero
^ Cheapjack: Its people like you who make me glad that Swedish culture will be gone in another 100 years. Its just too bad I won't be around to see it.
22:08 January 30, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
No Sir Alex,

You dreadful bigot, you are not an angel either and here in Sweden you would be prosecuted under the law of Hets mot folkgrupp (Incitement to racial hatred) for saying the awful things that you say about the Turkish people. I have some Turkish friends in London and here in Stockholm. I know what a difficult time a lot of Turkish people were experiencing in Köln and Hamburg, in Germany a few years ago.

I certainly don't think like you about the wonderful Turkish people who - did have their dark history about the Armenians and more recently their still current and on-going military suppression of the Kurdish people and Kurdish identity which is utterly reprehensible and they seem hell-bent in trying to eradicate any idea of separation because they want Turkey to be one nation etc. - At the same time it was the Turks who extended the hand of friendship to the Jews many of whom escaped the Inquisition by fleeing to Turkey at the invitation of the reigning Sultan. And they also extended freedom to Jews in Turkey before many in Europe became as civilised.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rlz=1R2GGLL_enSE351&q=Turkey++good++to+the+Jews

h

As Professor Jan Hjärpe usually introduces Islam in his Public lectures (he takes a sociological approach and often starts his Swedish audiences) by telling them that Sweden used to pay the Jizya tax to Turkey to ensure Swedish ships safe passage on the high seas during the Ottoman days and up to about1919. Everybody knows the relationship between Karl XII of Sweden and the Turks and Turks were among the first immigrants to Sweden mostly to fill the need for indentured labour in the 1960s and since then the Turkish people have continued to play a very important role in the cultural and commercial life in this country and to a growing extent also the political life in Sweden.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rlz=1R2GGLL_enSE351&q=Turkish+immigration+to+Sweden
22:34 January 30, 2010 by svenskdod
One fifth.... It is a number that is ridiculous and just shows that the power in this country no longer resides in the native population. There are too many conformers and sympathisers in both the government and the public.

A few hundred years ago the ruling elite in Sweden were Germans. In another hundred, they will be Islamic. The numbers speak for themselves, and if the Swedish people do not want to loose their country to foreign influence and ideology, they had better demand change. This will never happen, and the traditions that so many take for granted will be lost.

I am an immigrant, and I can even see it in the few years I have been here. To the Swedes out there who "just don't want to upset anyone" i say this, wake up, or your grandchildren will be persecuted as minorities when they are your age.
22:56 January 30, 2010 by uunbeliever
@ Roy E - the honest truth? I feel welcome here in Sweden but I am white and speak English. I feel sorry for anyone from a country where they can be hung for opening their mouths or civil war or murderous gangs cutting off their hands to have to deal with Swedes calling them jävla invandrare.

Open debate all you want, the king dresses up like an african warrior and thinks its funny, people throw bananas at football goalies, neger bollar, Rinkaby. . .
23:50 January 30, 2010 by saab
Saab here, having set this interesting line of discussion into motion. Seems like there are some folks out there who are totally fine with the disappearance of Sweden as Sweden (though I venture to guess that they would be most upset if a small sardine species were threatened with extinnction). Let's just be practical here: if you want to see rioting like Paris had in its banlieues, if you want to see your Theo van Gogh's killed in broad daylight, if you want to worry about bombings in train stations a la London and Madrid... let 'em all in!! A Swedish caliphate will be a sight to behold.

What we are witnessing here is Swedish liberalism and"tolerance" run amok. Really, the government policy wonks who set this policy in motion and watch it unfold have some form of mental illness. Or they are hopeless romantics who see the world they want it to be rather than the way it is.

And as I sign off, I just wonder how long it will take for someone to accuse me of xenophobia, racism, Hitlerism, fascism or some other "ism". Of course, I bet most of them would be quite upset to find themselves living near or in a neighborhood inhabited by "immigrants". Afterall, property values would go down, right? In the States, they call them Limousine Liberals. On TheLocal, they call themselves "Calc" and "Zero" and post nonsense.
03:40 January 31, 2010 by Davey-jo
20% of Swedes are not Swedes. Sweden is full of "foreigners".

Well aren't you lucky. People actually want to live in your country. What are you moaning about? Oh, you don't like dusky colored men coming onto your blond daughters; get real. Your daughters like these men. And your sons like the dusky maidens from overseas. Swedes will be duskier and happier if they ignore this kind of rubbish reporting. I suspect they will be anyway ....
05:09 January 31, 2010 by Rutkowski
@Kaethar

"I am extremely offended by that insulting post but I know you're not to blame for your ignorance. Any social scientist will tell you that culture is a constantly evolving phenomena. There is no such thing as a static culture. Get it? NO culture is static."

So why oppose immigrants coming to Sweden and helping our culture evolve to avoid stagnation? If anything they are helping us, not hurting us.

"Point 2 - Sweden is a Germanic country. Point 3 - there certainly are cultural elements that are exclusively Swedish - from speaking Swedish as a language to watching Donald Duck on Christmas Eve."

Ahh yes, the Donald Duck argument. The true sign that someone doesn't know jack sh|t what they're talking about.

"I would rather have 100 immigrants who like Swedish culture than one Swede (such as yourself) that doesn't. If you dislike Swedish culture (or Swedish society since you deny the existence of a Swedish culture) you are free to leave. There are 7-25 million people in the world who would love to live in Sweden because of our culture. You won't be missed. :)"

But I don't, never said I did. However, thinking it is perfect is both idiotic and ignorant.

But yeah, this is like talking with a brick wall. An extremely dumb one, that is.
12:18 January 31, 2010 by Alex Coman
To Dear Cornelius

Incitement to racial hatred??? I just told the facts. Problem is there are a lot of ethnics groups called Turkish. This is a myth from Ataturk, that there are ein Turkey, ein folk , ein...republic?! Anyway, you attack, you insult, you make them feel unwanted there. Here, in Romania, they are home, and they are feel like it, although Romanians have a history full of fight against Turkish Empire and against the Turks. When all Europe was crying for falling of Constantinopole, you know, falling of Byzantium, in 1453, only Romanians continued the fight against Turkish Empire, while the whole Europe was ... Never mind. The Romanian orthodox saints who were kings here, died killed by Turks or spent all their lives fighting against them. 600 years of pure hate. But they are here home. They are Romanian citizens as I am. They have here political party, a free religious life(lot of mosques with minarets and loud prayer), and nobody make them feel uncomfortable, and nobody attack them. Nobody.

But some of them choose to act like I said before.

I m just amazed how you live in a lie. You love and hate them... Eros and Thanatos. And please, don t give internet links anymore, we re not kids here.
13:09 January 31, 2010 by Cheapjack
The thing is, people come to Sweden,and Britain, because it offers a higher standard of living, and because it's system works 'better'. People should adapt to this system and not bring their system to the host country, because it has been proven it does not work as well. We have similar problems in Britain. Some seem to think we should be handicapped in some way, because our system works 'better'.
00:58 February 1, 2010 by Greg in Canada
I come from a country that was built on immigration, albiet at the expense of the native Indians. Canada's policies have been far from perfect but we have three hundred years of immigration, not just twenty. Sweden seems like a ship without a rudder with their immigration policy. On one hand theyre trying to show the world how liberal they are by taking in almost anybody, but at the same time are disrupting a country that was very successful as a mostly homogeneous society. Unlike Euro countries like Britain, France or Spain, there is no history of a colonial past in Sweden, nor do you have an international spoken language that immigrants are familiar with when arriving on your shores.

Sweden - stop trying to imitate immigration policies from Canada and other New World countries. You're in an entirely different situation.

Sweden, you really need to rethink a few things regarding immigration.
04:57 February 1, 2010 by JoeSwede
Swedes need to have more kids. Easy solution but pretty hard to undo the tremendous suffocation of the other temptations that keep families from starting.

Tax policy, school education, government propoganda, decline of the church, news opinions all in the 1970s changed the Swedish family unit. With all the data Sweden collects, they must have know that this was going to occur. What at first looks like an increase in standard of living translates to a decline of culture. My grandparents had plenty of kids and they in turn did have a number of children bud since then it has slowed considerably. Eveyone has one child. If two people have one child that is not self sustaining.

Enact third child bonus and start glorifying families.
11:53 February 1, 2010 by Alex Coman
Not having kids shows Sweden people are not as good as they think they are.

OK, there s a lot of you atheist, but if you think from christian faith point of view, Sweden is the new Cannan for those humble, coming from the desert of this civilization.
13:31 February 1, 2010 by Norrlands Turk
@Alex Coman

Are u a joke man?

Why do you go to six centuries back to justify your hatred and racism against Turks. Within last century you had two world wars + a despote regime in your country. How about those?

It looks like you know nothing about Ataturk. He was a great leader and he very well knew that Turkey is a big melting pot of people from different origins. What he had in his mind was a model not different than what the US has now. If you live, work and defend your country, you're a Turk regardless of your origin. I have half Kurd-half Turk origin but regardless I am a Turk and there are many people like me in Turkey.

Majority of Turks in Germany left Turkey in 1960s and 70s and unfortunately they are stuck in those decades. They moved to Germany and other countries straight from their villages from the east and they lacked even basic education. While Turkey has been growing and becoming more educated, they were enable to adapt themselves to change. Now they can't even adopt to Turkey if they try to go back and live in Turkey. So the only guilty side here is Germany who moved thousands of educated people to support its industry back in the time without making proper plans what to do with these people later on.
14:11 February 1, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
Dear Alex of Romania,

As I said in my last reply to you - which has miraculously disappeared - you are not alone - I too am a link - to you.....

In the movie " The Message" the Prophet of Islam sends his messenger to the King of Persia inviting him to adopt Islam as his religion. The King reclining on his throne and backed by a few millennia of Persian civilisation responds unkindly to the messenger, telling him that he came from a superior civilisation.( I quoted the exact words from the film and my posting was rejected as containing "profanity"!!! So far for the tolerance that we're talking about.

It's one of the paradoxes of history isn't it, that within a short time, just as the mass conversion of the Khazars to Judaism so too the mass conversion of Iran first to Sunni Islam and then under the Safavids, to Shia Islam as the state religion.

Civilisation and culture are the popular words here - as in Canaan culture and the ideas and some of the cultural arrogance implicit in e.g. Huntingdon's " The Clash of Civilisations".All this talk of superior cultures and civilisations leaves one (me) (and perhaps you too?) wondering exactly what Mahatma Gandhi could have meant when answering a question of what he thought of Western Civilisation, said that he thought that " it would be a good idea:"
18:53 February 1, 2010 by Kaethar
@Rutkowski:

"So why oppose immigrants coming to Sweden and helping our culture evolve to avoid stagnation? If anything they are helping us, not hurting us."

I don't oppose immigration. I oppose mass-immigration. There is no "integration" going on in large parts of Sweden. What's happening is segregation, ghettoization, and the creation of parallel societies. That has NEVER caused cultural influence in history - that has caused the creation of new societies and in the end new self-governing states.

"Ahh yes, the Donald Duck argument. The true sign that someone doesn't know jack sh|t what they're talking about."

Explain. From the big to the small there are aspects of Swedish culture that is unique only to Sweden. What is culture to you? Does a culture have to be Middle Eastern for you to consider it a real culture? That again shows your ignorance since no Middle Easterners are living like Mesopotamians.

"But I don't, never said I did. However, thinking it is perfect is both idiotic and ignorant.[/quote]Yes you did. You are MOCKING Swedish culture and it's bothering me. My dad is an immigrant to Sweden and he'd be upset as well since he moved to Sweden for her culture and social norms.

"But yeah, this is like talking with a brick wall. An extremely dumb one, that is."

Ad hominum. A sign that you have lost this argument.
04:41 March 6, 2010 by Alasdair MacCorquodale
1/5 th !1 That is staggering. We have a problem over here in Britain, where it immigration now accounts fo about 1/11 th. How on earth did you come to allow things to reach this state?

My politics are Conservative. Sweden has been Socialist/Liberal for many many years. I think most Swedes would have said that Left-wing politics have served them very well. But whe it comes to controlling immigration, a liberal frame of mind makes it almost impossible. Immigation has don huge damage to Britain and I am just so sorry that Swedes have allowed things to develop to this state.

There are around 5 Billion living in so called Third World countries, so with Sweden still having one of the highest standards of living in the World, the only certain thing is that your country will be faced with ever higher levels of immigration in the future.

What has gone wrong? When I visited Sweden I seem to remember almost every other home had a national flag flying on a pole outside it. Please do not loose any more of your national identity.
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