• Sweden edition

Churches for children: dangerous mind-play or harmless fun?

Published: 17 Feb 10 11:33 CET | Double click on a word to get a translation
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/25044/20100217/

Keen to keep his daughter occupied, Joel Sherwood finds sanctuary in Sweden's many church play areas. Which beg the question: Are the country's legions of latte mamas soon to be overtaken by a new generation of chapel papas?

On weekdays when my baby daughter and I are looking for a good time we often head off to...churches.

Yep, during my time on paternity leave I've discovered Swedish churches are the place to see and be seen with babies on workdays. A lot of these weekend places of worship second as popular 'öppna förskolor' in the week. Roughly translated, 'öppna förskolor' means 'baby play-area extravaganzas'. Rooms full of toys and games are made accessible free of charge to parents and toddlers of apparently any affiliation, including Danes.

There are usually kitchen facilities available for baby feeding, and coffee and sandwiches on sale for parent feeding. At these sessions, the churches also coordinate activities, like sing-alongs. Basically, it's as good a place as any to go with your infant if you're concerned her first words are going to be: “can we get the hell out of our apartment and go play somewhere else for a change!”

I'm not religious, but to me it initially seemed as counter-intuitive to have churches as hot spots for baby entertainment as it would be for amusement parks to be the place for baptisms. Then I realized it's all a ploy to continue brainwashing the Swedish population. And there clearly is brainwashing going on here. How else to explain the unquestioned worship of herring in this country? Or the complete and utter schlager music glorification? Rational, unbrainwashed people wouldn't willingly do these things.

I must admit, I haven't yet seen any herring at these church playtime bashes. The sing-alongs have so far featured only typical baby songs, not Carola hits. But if there is a mass, national conspiracy warping minds into liking the raw, slimy fish or the cheesy, formulaic jingles – and there must be, no? – I imagine the plot masterminds would want the washing to start on as young brains as possible. These 'öppna förskolor' provide the perfect forum, don't you think?

Ok, maybe the conspiracy theory isn't foolproof. But why else are these churches compelled to turn themselves into weekday baby resorts? It can't be profit. Everything is free except for the coffee, which they sell dirt cheap. They could be after new members. But so far I haven't seen any attempts to woo me into joining, besides the coffee prices.

Maybe the whole initiative really is as it seems: just a friendly, no strings attached community service for families with small children. These churches are simply trying to do something nice, and I'm being cynical by looking for hidden motives.

Well anyway, all this analyzing has made me hungry and tired. I think I'll go have some herring and relax with some Carola tunes.

Joel Sherwood (news@thelocal.se)

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12:18 February 17, 2010 by Dyflin
"including Danes", classic!
12:39 February 17, 2010 by sandeep
keywords: Catch Them Young
13:16 February 17, 2010 by spongepaddy
And your example of a country where one CAN find only "rational, unbrainwashed people" is..?
10:10 February 18, 2010 by Alex Coman
And your example of a country where one CAN find only "rational, unbrainwashed people" is..?

U S A !!!!
13:42 February 18, 2010 by Barnflicka90
I understand you're opinion on this issue. People in Sweden do not attend church, I think a tiny 1% attend and nobody is religious. The churches are probably offering these play areas out of generousity, they know that it will be unlikely for families to just start showing up on Sunday mornings. But then again, how are we to know their intentions.

Great article!
18:52 February 18, 2010 by Grippen
What is wrong with you, people? What harm can cause a children playing room at church premises?

Real danger for children development awaits at shameful "pride" parades:

nd.se/nyheter/dokument.asp?dokID=637
20:02 February 18, 2010 by Alex Coman
They are doing God s work. They really help the parents, and the kids can learn a lot . About those thinking the church brainwash somebody, they must know some of the biggest atheist were coming from ... the church schools.
00:03 February 19, 2010 by senthil v
I'm not a christian.... and i don't see any harm in this, they are just trying to be nice probably, as that's what god has told people to be like. Reg brainwashing or whatever, when the child grows up its gonna make an informed decision.

I studied all my life in church schools and I'm not a christian, My wife is a christian by birth, but started to go to church voluntarily after she turned 25.
07:17 February 19, 2010 by spongepaddy
Alex Coman: I am going to assume you are being ironic. Oh wait, you go on to talk about an invisible sky person in a later comment... so obviously irony is completely unknown to you. And they are doing "God's work"? What, you mean rape, slavery and genocide and eternal torture? Or were you referring to a different bible..?
11:12 February 19, 2010 by Alex Coman
There are a lot of fathers abusing their children, so you think a child can be raised better without the real potential danger which a father could be...

@spongepaddy, maybe irony is completely unknown to me, but, man, you are so, so funny!

Rape, slavery and genocide and eternal torture??? You atheist, you must read books, go to school, go out and see real people. Then try to talk. Statistics: how many have been raped or tortured or enslaved or whatever you want in Sweden in last 100 years? Or 200? In 300 years???

Anyway, to have a place where you can leave in good hands your kids(voluntary workers, people known in the whole parish for their good behavior), at least for 2 hours, is the best thing for a parent.
14:13 February 19, 2010 by rohermoker
I note a fear of having your young exposed to something you may not belive in, but fear not the socialist are firmly in control.
19:12 February 19, 2010 by mombassa
spongepaddy, you bring up some good points about the Bible.

Now what do the Christian experts have to say on this matter?

Have you looked?

I bet you haven't looked.

Shouldn't you look to see what the other side has to say before passing judgment?

One thing to keep in mind, violence is NOT inherently wrong. Not in the Judeo-Christian worldview.
02:21 February 20, 2010 by Yendor79
In Malta People have MUSEUM, basically these are evening religious classes every day, they are obligatory and feature a lesson of like 45 minutes, if I remember well and has playroom, kids are taken to sport etc. Personally I see them as a safe and healthy venue for children to play and socialise even if they start when the kids are like 7 years old. I used to attend mine till I was 12yrs, and still left the church for a couple of years till I decided to return but the point is, it never actually did harm to anyone, the opposite actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Christian_Doctrine
05:09 February 20, 2010 by treetri88
Grippen

What is wrong with you, people? What harm can cause a children playing room at church premises?

Real danger for children development awaits at shameful "pride" parades:

nd.se/nyheter/dokument.asp?dokID=637

As a young gay guy in his early 20s zealously keen on getting married and having children in Canada, I find that your superficiality of your reasoning is at best infantile and at worst resembling those of extreme right wing Talibanists. The link you provided leads us to some sort of insane ranting by some extreme Christian idiot (Sorry I don't understand much Swedish).

You think for some reason I'll let my future kids be exposed to naked people parading down the streets? Maybe I should say yes to this question to the woman interviewing us at the adoption agency to see how she reacts to the response! There are family friendly activities at these Gay events that I'd love to take my children to. I'm myself not remotely comfortable being surrounded by sweaty half naked badly made up men all shaking their "booty" and making out either.

Half of kids growing up in the Canada and I think for Sweden too, are already growing up in non-traditional environments by single parents. Half of them have their first sexual encounter by 15 or 16. Maybe as parents we should have bigger concerns to worry about.

Statistics in North America indicate that black men are notorious for leaving their infant children and black women have a disproportionate chance of ending up being single parents on welfare. Shall we forbid black men from becoming fathers due to this stereotypical "threat"? Should we all castrate them to make sure future offspring don't grow up in broken homes?

I will take my kids to a church's playground any day as long as they welcome us. However I won't be amused if it turns into some sort of proselytizing lessons about Christians in need of saving the world and spreading the good words.
05:17 February 20, 2010 by treetri88
Comment: "Yendor79 In Malta People have MUSEUM, basically these are evening religious classes every day, they are obligatory and feature a lesson of like 45 minutes, if I remember well and has playroom, kids are taken to sport etc. Personally I see them as a safe and healthy venue for children to play and socialise even if they start when the kids are like 7 years old. I used to attend mine till I was 12yrs, and still left the church for a couple of years till I decided to return but the point is, it never actually did harm to anyone, the opposite actually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Ch..._Doctrine"

Funny you actually say that! Let's look at the statistics of homicidal crimes, robberies, break-ins, car-jacking, gun related offenses, and organized crime organization related felonies between highly secular Canada, Sweden, The Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, Norway, Czech Republic compared to super ultra religious countries such as Malta, Brazil, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Mexico, Argentina, Italy, the USA. I believe the offenses listed below are included in the list of ten commandments. Why are the "Christians" in these countries not following them?
14:58 February 20, 2010 by Alex Coman
The article is not about christian teachings. Is about what Church does for the people in Sweden.

@mombassa you must read something about The New Testament. And you ll see how is violence is seen by Christians. For real.

Then talk.

@treetri88

Man, imagine these countries you said about, without churches.

Nazi Germany, URSS, maoist China, Pol Pot's Cambodgia...

These are countries who knows better than anybody how atheist harmony works. About Norway, find out how more about this country and about real nazi politics used there after WWII. Against kids. Against disabled people. Read. Find out. I don t give you any links, find some yourself, be ashamed and then talk.
03:28 February 22, 2010 by Davey-jo
I think the church goers should be more worried about this anyone else. People are exploiting your good will and you think you are getting them to come to church in return, well no; you're not! Church going is in a terminal tailspin and I don't see any way out for this Christian tradition. If you don't get the footfall you don't get the money is the way shops look at it; but I suppose Churches have a different perspective.

Now he says about "brainwashing Swedes"; this sounds so unlikely that I could not take it seriously.

Most of the comments seem to be typically vituperative. As an atheist I really don't care that people take their children to church, I went to church as a child and I really liked the incense and the Latin mass, I'm showing my age. I never for one moment fell for the God business and it left no horrors on my psyche, at least as far as I know. I think my only regret is that I wasn't abused by the Catholic priests at my school so I could get some "compo".
07:18 February 22, 2010 by treetri88
"14:58 February 20, 2010 by Alex Coman

@treetri88

Man, imagine these countries you said about, without churches.

Nazi Germany, URSS, maoist China, Pol Pot's Cambodgia...

These are countries who knows better than anybody how atheist harmony works. About Norway, find out how more about this country and about real nazi politics used there after WWII. Against kids. Against disabled people. Read. Find out. I don t give you any links, find some yourself, be ashamed and then talk."

Lol. Cambodia is known to be one of the most Buddhist countries in the world, so is Vietnam, China, and Laos. They're all traditionally Buddhist! The Communist regimes in these countries were and still are what keeping religions down. However I visited Vietnam once and you will be shocked to see the number of Christian churches mushrooming across Ho Chi Minh City. The ruling German administration at the moment is, I emphasize, the CHRISTIAN democratic union.

Why are we constantly talking about the past here (Nazi Germany, Nazi policies in Norway etc.)? If I remember correctly, Scandinavian history shows dark eras where the country's inhabitants were tortured, maimed, and forcibly made to be Christians in order to quit their religious Wiccan traditions. My statistics are a reflection of the present. We're discussing organic secularism as a result of citizens of a country developing independent thought and stay with social progression along with a focus on logic and science. We're not talking about the governments trying to ban or forbid religions, which do NOT exist in modern Sweden and Canada, my home country.
15:08 February 22, 2010 by Alex Coman
@treetri88

"social progression along with a focus on logic and science"

Man, you are a small communist, no doubt about this. Pol pot, Stalin, Hitler( is from a different movie but still can be counted), Mao, all of them killed tens of millions in the name of "social progression along with a focus on logic and science".

Russia was a very religious country before 1917. And then an atheist country...

"Cambodia is known to be one of the most Buddhist countries in the world". Good for them but Pot Pot's Cambodgia was a full time atheist country.

You don t understand because you, soap opera leftist, don t know how is to life in an communist country. Man, I'm romanian. I know these things not from TV or left media. My grandparents, my parents and I lost a lot from our lives living in a atheist/socialist/communist country. You know nothing about hundreds of millions of destroyed lives in the name of "social progression along with a focus on logic and science".

Which is the moral foundation of atheism??? Read Dostoievski, Crime and punishment book.
05:49 February 23, 2010 by treetri88
Hello Mr.Alex

You're writing on a Swedish newspaper, a country that less than 10% of the population is actively engaged in religious activities. Do you think Sweden is a Communist country? I live in a country that only 30% of its population attends church services. Do you see Canada increasingly turning into a Communist country? Where are you getting all of your extreme right wing religious fanatic stuff from?

Soap opera leftist? I thought name calling is for fifth graders nowadays. Apparently children in the form of adults still use them.

Oops I forgot you're Romanian, a country that is never known for making any technological contribution to this world and devoutly Roman Catholic, a country that is known for its high degree of corruption and limited Freedom of Press. All of the smartest people who were born there eventually leave the country for better lands. Lots of them are now in Canada. I'm certain your country is doing a great job and my "Communist" Canada is going to "hell".

Thanks for the entertainment. I needed the laugh.
09:08 February 23, 2010 by spongepaddy
@Alex Coman: Regarding my comments on rape, genocide and slavery - I am not referring to Sweden but to your magic book of choice (in this case I am assuming it is the bible).

Have you READ the Old Testament I wonder? Well HAVE you?

And you say "what is the moral foundation of atheism"? Well what is the "moral foundation" of Christianity? Doing what an invisible emperor in the sky tells you, even when it is clearly bizarre or nasty because, if you don't, he will torture you forever? Lovely.
09:44 February 23, 2010 by Puffin
Really strange article to write about this as though it was a new thing to have playgroups in churches - hello welcome back to 1995

It was in the mid 1990s that many kommuns closed their Öppna förskolas because of the budget crisis years as a result of the Swedish finance and bank crisis - in many kommuns the church stepped in an took over this function as part of their community work.
13:32 February 23, 2010 by spongepaddy
Despite my disagreement with Alex (and god) I think this is fine - since the church takes taxpayer's money, it may as well perform some useful service with it. Well done the church, I say.
14:30 February 23, 2010 by Alex Coman
@treetri88

"Romanian, a country that is never known for making any technological contribution to this world" :)

The greatest canadian invention, the insulin, is in fact a stolen ROMANIAN invention. Nicolae Paulescu invented it. Read about him. In 1969 even The Nobel Foundation accept the truth and made it public.

I don t want to give you more examples, because I think you don t know many things about technological inventions.

But another one I hope will not hurt you bad: HENRY COANDA (see on wiki, if you don t have access to a academic library :).

Oh, boy, oh boy, the greatest canadian is just a ...not so great.

About Romania being a Romano-Catholic country...man, you re so far from the truth. Romania is an orthodox country, like Russia or like Greece. We have 1000 years of fighting against Catholicism. There was no church abuses in my country. No Inquisition, no witches burned like in Sweden or USA, and and sure like in Canada.

For high degree of corruption, try to mention USA. Or you don t know it?
08:51 February 24, 2010 by spongepaddy
@Alex: Tell us more about Romania! It's really on-topic and everything.
13:04 February 24, 2010 by Alex Coman
I am sorry, I was out of topic, but I heard stupid and way out of truth things about Romania.:)

@spongepaddy

The moral foundation of Christianity is the love of God, who made us all for living in heaven for eternity. Who gave His Son to die in pain for us. We worth so much in God s eyes, so the only conclusion is we must worth much for each other.

Since the Crucifiction Peace is bigger than Justice.

But we must understand there are consequences or our deeds and we can t hurt ourselves or others, which is live without abiding God s law, without putting us out of Heaven. Any bad thing I did has a consequence and it will affect me.

This is a moral foundation. No words, but love, life. No moral law invented by some poor people, law can be changed by will of any political monster. You know, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Ceausescu. We have that experience, open your eyes! See the truth! Nobody has no answer to that truth. ATHEISM, IN HISTORY, MEANS DEATH OF MILLIONS.

We are not only food for worms, our lives is not live in vain. Our parents, our kids, friends we love, all, will live forever. Otherwise, the life has no meaning, no future, and not many things to live for.

The Church of Sweden is just doing her job. Nothing more. That is The Church.
13:57 February 24, 2010 by Kevin Harris
I took all three of my kids to church activity afternoons. They grew up with absolutely no interest in religion, and very dubious morals to boot (my fault I know). If this was a cunning plan to indoctrinate my children, it failed miserably. I wish it had succeeded, my kids could really benefit from some old fashioned values, Christian or otherwise.
14:45 February 24, 2010 by spongepaddy
@Alex: Unless we live forever, life has no meaning? That's like saying: unless I get an infinite dinner, food has no meaning. I feel for sorry for anybody who's meaning of life depends on things that are invisible and unprovable and unknowable. You must be very scared. I would pray for you. If I prayed.

In fact, religious people should not be allowed to argue using reason. Because, by being religious, they have by definition turned their back on reason. Arguing uses evidence and logic. Amount of evidence and logic in religion: zero.

Religion is invented by people. It isn't real. There is no sky fairy. I know this, and I am happy. You don't know this, and you are scared. Who wins, I wonder?
16:23 February 24, 2010 by Alex Coman
@spongepaddy

"Arguing uses evidence and logic. Amount of evidence and logic"

Evidence: "ATHEISM, IN HISTORY, MEANS DEATH OF MILLIONS. Nero, Robespierre, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Ceausescu..." Atheist just don t say nothing about, they just avoid the truth.

How can somebody say atheist are reasonable while they just can t want to accept the truth. History means something to you? Robespierre, try to find out something about this man.

"I feel for sorry for anybody who's meaning of life depends on things that are invisible and unprovable and unknowable." Man, feel sorry about somebody who think those he loves are just food for worms. An just a fact: you can t see atoms, electric power, laws, love...

"Amount of evidence and logic in religion: zero." I just show you above you can t recognize evidence and logic, while you can t count history as reality.

I should try to explain you some science truths but I m not sure you ll understand something, since you can t see an evidence from history.

" You don't know this, and you are scared" :)

Man, I know God loves me, I know my kids , my parents, my wife, my good friends are not just some evolution accidents, they are not food for worms. They will live forever. I know.

About how scared I am. Have you ever been in face of a tank shooting at you. I was. Have your phones ever listen by authorities day and night? Mine was.

Have you ever seen your kid hit by a car, in emergency room, cover with blood? You must know that I let the driver who did this escaping without any legal claims from me. Nothing. Because I am a christian. You know, there are no atheist in the foxholes. Just in pubs you can find atheists.

Please, tell me, what is your job ? Are you a scientist? A post doctoral graduate?

Kids! :)

Go to school, read some books, go out, leave the computer, know real people, find a good girl...

And not to forget: have you ever tried tests like Szondi Test or Rorschah Test???
21:53 February 24, 2010 by mikmak
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins
22:34 February 24, 2010 by Alex Coman
@mikmak

Funny guy, this Dawkins.

Try Chomski, if you can understand the science.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1992/chomsky-0401.html , MIT News... :)

http://www.trueorigin.org/language01.asp
16:17 February 25, 2010 by calebian22
Belief is a personal choice. If someone, has a firm belief that they "know" is correct, good for them. If you have a firm understanding that belief is rubbish, fine that is your choice. However, remember your atheistic arrogance when you are dead and find out you were wrong.
09:38 February 26, 2010 by spongepaddy
@Alex: Oh you just "know", do you? Well that's enough evidence for me, I admit defeat, discussion over. Good job on the reasoning. First class.

And you do like to argue by attacking the person arguing with you. That's called ad hominem. Just so you know. And it's a known logical fallacy. Kids...

FYI Alex, I have a degree in Physics and a Masters of Engineering. Plus I know how to use a spell-checker, which is very advanced knowledge. Now stop giving me "life" advice and learn how to hold an argument without having to resort to 1) Communists; 2)Things that you just "know"; and 3) Worms.

You haven't a logical leg to stand on and you know it.
12:25 February 26, 2010 by Alex Coman
@spongepaddy

I understand a lot of atheists are gay, but, if you want to attack somebody, be a man!

1) You said "irony is completely unknown to you" so we have here ad hominem:)

2) You first say Christians are a bunch of people who are not strangers to rape, slavery and genocide and eternal torture... :)

3) You try to say something about moral foundation, then, after I give you examples of atheist moral foundation, you just move to other issue...to science evidence. So discussion on moral is not your thing. Next time, please, don t talk about moral.

4) Please, help me understand, our experience, as humans, in history, means nothing to you??? Maybe if we talk about klingonians I have nothing to say on that matter, but we, human race, we have a past, an experience we know. And we can not just ignore it.

History, human history means something to you?

"You haven't a logical leg to stand on and you know it." Man you become compulsive!

Try to listen first. I just had given you something.

Try Chomski, if you can understand the science.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1992/chomsky-0401.html , MIT News... :)

http://www.trueorigin.org/language01.asp

This is written above and you didn t red. Ok. About Physics, how can you think there could be an effect without a cause? Which or who is for you Causa Causorum?
02:43 April 3, 2010 by 247learning
It makes me wonder why Sweden adopt festivals such as Xmas , good Friday and Easter if there are only 1% of the population who believe in it... Now i understand why Festivals are so boring and meaningless in this country.. Maybe they should have some official holidays for Muslim festival.. since it has more 1% of the population believing it.
21:41 April 23, 2010 by spongepaddy
Actually it's "Chomsky" and not "Chomski". You dick. Now go away like a good boy and learn to argue. And to spell.
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Jobs in Sweden, in English

522 jobs available
250 new jobs this week
45 new jobs today

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Get on the Tennis Court with www.babolatshop.se
The new Online Tennis Store with the largest selection of Babolat Products in Sweden
http://www.babolatshop.se
Turning Point Counseling
Turning Point Counselling centre offers the international community of Stockholm a safe space for personal development, counselling and coaching.
http://www.turning-point.se/show.asp
Swedish Down Town
Swedish Down Town PR Consulting and Productions is an innovative business company which provides valuable assistance with Public Relations and Communications in the swedish and the international market.
www.swedishdowntown.com
The Local's new Marketplace
Find products and services that are specifically focused on English speakers living in Sweden!
FULL DETAILS
English Speaking Therapist Stockholm
British-Australian Male Counsellor. Counselling Therapy for Depression, Mental Health, Sex, Relationship & Expat Issues
08-559 22 636 or CLICK HERE
Counseling in English
Individuals & Couples - Stockholm Beth Rogerson PhD - Clinical, Marriage & Family Therapist
Click or call 08-5580 1266 now
Doctor of Psychology
Therapy in English in Stockholm Trained in California Individuals & Couples (08) 93 81 48 FREE phone consultation
Visit anxiousorblue.se