Published: 19 Feb 10 14:29 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/25100/20100219/
A bill proposing tuition fees for students from non-EU countries will enable Sweden to compete on a more level playing field with universities in other countries, argues Niklas Tranæus from the Swedish Institute.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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Having said all of these, the fact that Niklas is much better informed compared to me (a simple PhD student) makes me wonder what is the actual motivation behind this misleading article? Why not mentioning the real reason behind the decision?
Universities will have to change in Sverige to compete.
No longer will they be allowed to ignore the fact that most students from other countries, including the EU can not get even a basic cleaning job when here.
Money talks and that bit of racism will find itself exposed by studetns who have paid money, in a very internationally public way. The knock on effect from that will be good for Sverige.
Education is not a commodity to be bought and sold. It's an axiomatic right.
Do you have any experience as an international student in Sweden?.
The problem is not that the idea of tuition fees is wrong. And that wouldn't be up to us foreigners to decide any way.
The proble is the effect it is going to have especially in the science and technology deciplines. Some programmes will not have enough students and there for they can not be run, especially in small universities. People will have to leave the university environment to look for jobs in the industry and that is not good for sweden's industrial future. The benefit is small compared to what it is likely to have as gain.
Do you get the point now?.
That is why many people in industry aren't in support of it.
This sounds just funny. The author of this article probably did not read the recent debate about foreign PhD students in Sweden and how they are (mis)treated.
Full tuition will not select "best" students, but richer ones; whatever else do you expect from a monarchy? :-)
And finally this article lacks of any element of journalism: it is just the translation of a propaganda pamphlet of the Swedish Ministry of Education!
You can't see the need to have many people both in industry and the university environment?.
If many move to industry as many programmes in small universities shot down, it isn,t helping in reaching and preparing as many young scientists and engineers as possible.
There was an article on this issue on the news paper Nyteknik a couple of weeks back. You can check on their web page if you read swedish.
Do you know anything about Sweden? Have you ever lived here or known anyone that has? Your statement about how people can't get jobs due to lack of skills in Sweden is just plain dumb.
Alot of the foriegn students have more degrees, better grades and better english tha the swedish ones. Most of them after their time in school can also speak swedish almost fluently, albeit, with an accent.
There are so many people looking for jobs right now, swedish and non-swedish. I applied for a job just a while ago and there were over 100 applicants, that happens all the time here. There just isn't enough jobs for everyone who wants them.
It's not something that swedish people like to talk about but there is some discrimination against non-swedes here, especially non-white ones. I think the younger generation is better about it but unfortunately, they're usually not the ones in hiring postions.
100+ applicants + a non-swedish last name= much harder time getting a job
You will ruin the Swedish educational Institutions because the International students come to study in Sweden because of free education. If you implemented tuition fees, more than 40% Swedish Educational Institutions will be closed. Moreover, Swedish Housing Industry will have to loose its business. Many super markets are feared to be closed because all the students purchase food stuff from Sweden. Sweden will face a severe decline in young and cheap labor. Swedish students will lose their competitors and their standards of education will face free fall.
Very few international students find jobs in sweden during their studies but they all invest huge amount of foreign exchange in living and eating here in Sweden. All this will be gone after implementing tution fees. It is in the interest of Swedish Institions, Students, Employers, Housing and Food Industry that tution fees must not be implemented.
I Just took an exam that was administered to both Swedish and non-Swedish students. It was in a subject where the answer is right or wrong (mathematics). It was graded by a professor who was not a native Swede. The Swedes handily beat the non-Swedes (including the Chinese students). There was no way of that any discrimination could have taken place.
I did not do well. Instead of sour grapes I opened my books and plan on kicking a$$ on the next exam. I have found that most of the people who cry "discrimination" here in Sweden are way of base. Work harder next time. Stop blaming the Swedes for your failures. Work harder next time.
While there are many good arguments both for and against fees, the food industry one is the strangest I've heard :)
Try dividing 36000 by 9 million and see the terrible effects on shopkeepers as they loose 0.4% of their customer base (ditto the housing industry) ;)
What you say is very correct and well described, and exactly for the same reasons Sweden should get fee from international students and stop free education.
As a matter of fact there is nearly always a kind of bribery to motivate people to come to Sweden! In the case of immigration and refugee, the promise of a generous welfare motivated many to come here; in the case of University and high education the free programs motivate many to apply for studying in here; in the case of job market for foreign professional, the promise of a dynamic competitive market misguide technicians.
By this kind of policy the country is running its economy, with the promises of we are going to give you this one or that one! Now, Sweden is in a hard stage of selling promises, it can't fulfill its promises and many have realized it.
If that's the case then one has to ask why would someone choose Sweden over equal or lower priced alternatives? Certainly not because of the weather or career prospects due to reasons already discussed in other comments.
I understand that their tution fee introduction to cover the relative education budget deficit to subsidize for non-EU students. But as they know this will dramatically shorten the international studnets, they would have prepared for scholarship as included in the bill.
We will see in next years, what Swedish government, institution, media react in the changes after. It wiil be very interesting to see. In 2011 probably say 'non-EU studenst applicaion rate drop more than 90%.'
Yes a 90% drop is pretty realistic, that would still be about 12000 applicants. (Last year 114 900 people applied, however only 15%, about 18000 were accepted)
i have a course right now running no single swedish is doing it right now.i do wish you will come join me and my colliques.bring whoever you want and lets try how good you are.in trems of hands down or what.people are gifted with different quality and intellituals.alot of people do not have same understanding
First of all, I must say I have never felt any difference between Swedish and foreign students apart from the ''home factor'' (e.g. at Chalmers the Swedish students often come from the bachelor's programs at the university and have learnt the ''Chalmers system'' such as dealing with frequently used softwares e.tc.). I did, however, feel a significant difference between the quality of education at high school and Chalmers. The quality of the lectures were still very high, although, the low amount of hours per week and the low teacher to student ratio was striking. I often wondered why Swedish students that had top grades in high school were failing so many courses when I did my bachelor's and by the time I started my master's I got used to the high failure rate, and I do think most differences between Swedish and foreign students was due to the ''home factor''. In essence, I think the problem is not only the quality of the students, but mainly the poor teaching resources. It is true that Swedish universities admit many new students, but when I compare to academic environments that I have experienced abroad, the pressure on the students in Sweden is much lower (i.e. the faculty does not have time to care about each individual student as much as they should...although, my experience at Karolinska was very different from Chalmers).
So, if the Swedish universities want their future students to be independent enough to be compatible with their ''free education system'', maybe they should start considering admission tests or interviews instead of taking tuition fees! I think this would save both lecturers and students from a lot of frustration...and maybe people will start respecting the Swedish education system more!
2)Government has no solution for solving of financial crisis, so they should leave their privileges jobs.
2)Government want only riches to study and it is just question of time when they will make fees even for Swedish.
If they want only riches to study, it is like in the middle age. now they don't want poor educated people who can be rebellious, they believe that children of riches will not make revolution against their own families. therefore they keep poor to stay poor, and those poor who get help money for studying they will surely not lead people against governments. that's trend everywhere and Swedish government will copy such trend.
You got some interesting points in here, it might be true that a fee for Swedish might be practiced in future, and the disability of poor to go to University.
As a matter of fact, I can say probably Sweden has one of the highest rates of academic educated poor people at present. I can say from a theoretical point of view, the education itself is good and praised, but in the reality of market economy an education, which can be used in productivity because, all educations cost money. There are thousands of very good educated immigrants and refugees in Sweden, who are living on unskilled jobs, which don't need their education level. These people become poorer than they who didn't get that expensive education and earn the same money, because many of the high-educated guys with unskilled jobs are forced to pay back their students loan!
What we get are poor high-educated people! So, it doesn't mean if there is free education system, then you good result; unless there would be a reasonable balance and thoughtful solutions between the education and labor market!
As I understand it there are no fees for Swedish students so how does this affect poor Swedes? Poor foreign students will always be discriminated against because they represent a capital loss. At least superficially, really they are an investment in future "goodwill" but that is not accountable. So they have to pay top whack, nothing new and unavoidable in the current capital driven situation.
So, for the past years, simply there was an inequality. If I were a swedish citizen, I would sue the government since taxpayers have been deceived for ages.
By the way, any chance of reduction for EU candidates?
After all my country is a candidate of EU for ages, maybe Sweden halves the tuition for an EU candidate citizen.
lol.
When tution fees is introduced, to my knowledge and with whom I spoke, 95% percent of them are not interested to apply here either. It means that 5% people should go from studies in department, and if this happens department should shut down lagging with funds.
In the situation when studies are free , student from Europe doesnot insist to come to universities like those I studied how could one from non-EU come to study there?
Propabaly, students in universities like KTH, Chalmers, Linköping, Lund and probabily Stockholm University will continue with there courses and remaining all universities will come to closure lagging with students.
How could you support your article if it literally closes down the number of univeristies ?
As a international student , you said we are not paying taxes, but on every item we purchase we some how pay taxes to the government. We give revenue to government in way of rent, travel, grossaries, and many more than what does go in reality and couldn't be seen.
well said.
Excellent set of comments.
High cost of living
Unfriendly employment practices
Lagom education
Student visa rules designed to promptly eject recent grads
Crappy weather
+ High tuition cost
=> Sweden has just priced themselves right out of the higher education market by grossly overestimating the value they provide. There are so many other choices out there.
Then it's excellent that the Swedish eduction system is being shut down right? I mean there's nothing of value really...wonder why people went there in the first place, I mean if you just want a piece of paper you can buy a degree in a few minutes, you would still have learnt as much as in a Swedish education by doing that.
A key issue which many of you comment on is access to the Swedish labor market. We are well aware of that this is something which will need to be improved. Many potential employers in Sweden are not aware of the new rules. Universities will need to work more closely with companies to create more links. But by the time the first students which will pay fees graduate, the situation on the job market will have changed, partly because most of the large 40s generation will have gone into retirement. As for doctoral studies, tuition fees are not on the agenda. And Sweden will continue to have one of the most generous funding systems in the world.
I'm an American and my master's education here in Sweden is costing me 6 figures for two years. Why? I gave up a full-time job, moved to Sweden, pay rent, buy food, furniture, transportation, books, etc. Why am I spending/not earning over $100,000 to go to a school in Sweden? Well, the past two months should illustrate that it isn't for the weather. I'm here to interact with students from all over the globe. My program is 90% foreign and only 10% swedish. That's why.
There is this great misunderstanding about the US. Yes, Law School, Medical School, Business School and a few other programs will charge you money to attend. Most US graduate students are PAID to attend graduate school.
So, some how American universities..unlike Swedish Universities, are able to pay their graduate students, have the most current computers and technology, have libraries that are open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, affordable student housing, affordable food, work opportunities.... How is Sweden going to compete with this by charging me $12,000 USD a year but still have a (bleeping) library that is only open from 10am until 2pm on Fridays and is closed on the weekends? With computers in the lab that are 5 years old? No scanners, no imaging equipment, no editing equipment of any kind... etc.
Give me a break.
Sweden wants to attract the best and brightest? Start by asking the best and brightest what would attract them. This ain't it.
PS. Everyone is talking as if this legislation has passed. Has it passed? Or has it only been introduced?
I was thinking about moving back to go to Graduate school in Lund, but after comparing programs, Sweden is not as competitive already. My experience studying in Sweden... was so easy compared to my classes in the US. I really do not understand the reasoning of adding fees.
In answer to one of your questions; I can say there were international students but not like the most famous countries in Europe, maybe just in some famous programs, with some few people.
First, the main three languages in Europe are English, French and German, which English is the most practical one, seldom anybody learns Swedish outside of Sweden! Second, Internationalization in the sense that we can find in UK or France could not rooted in Sweden, and is still not even near it! The country has been so homogenous that Swedes prefer anybody else become like them; they just try to copy/paste immigrants/refugees here and there! Third, higher education never collapses in Sweden with or without international programs, but labor market continually collapse in Sweden with or without international program, the Swedish authorities have guaranteed it!!!
http://www.goforstudy.com/swedens-efforts-to-compensate-high-tuition-fees.html
Hopefully scholarships be helpful to convince students to study in Sweden.