February 14, 2012
Published: 24 Feb 10 13:34 CET | Double click on a word to get a translation
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/25182/20100224/
The completion of the purchase of Saab by Dutch firm Spyker has led to several subcontractors withdrawing notices of redundancy.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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fin
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Fin means anyhting from sweet to proper. When someone says, Du är så fin it's quite a compliment.
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The coming years is gonna be a grand adventure for Saab and I as a buyer wanna be part of that...
Luckily Saab didn't end up in Chinese hands, or worse.
It seems pretty obvious, Eagle63, that operations will be moved out of Sweden and into Asia when Saab decides to ramp up production and pursue the profitability that comes with economies of scale and lower input costs. If production remains in Europe, Saab will never turn a profit and this "saving of Saab" will prove to have been merely a delay of the inevitable.
I intrigued how you "know" the latest Saab news is "merely a delay of the inevitable". Why so boringly negative? Most industry professionals and fellow analysts are very upbeat about the prospects, though in no doubt that the future is fairly uncertain.
However, a market as precarious as that of Saab depends not just on good management and proper funding, but also on an upbeat and confident PR. You clearly do not subscribe to this and seem set on helping bring this excellent Swedish car maker to its doom and relishing its demise. Why? Doom-mongers like you do nothing to build public confidence and can undermine a firm's position by peddelling inuendo and rumour
How do you know so much? I've been directly involved with the industry as an analyst for more than 40 years at fairly high level, though not with Saab, and the buzz among my colleagues, some working for the compteition, is that Saab has a good chance given the proper support.
Is it too much to ask you and your Doubting Thomas clan to offer that vital support? Come on, help this fine marque get back on its wheels.
I am glad to see jobs saved.
I am actually not negative on Saab's prospects. My post was mostly a reaction to Eagle63's comment about it not going to China "or worse," which I found rather narrow-minded. If you want the company to survive, the marquee to prosper, then you do what has to be done. If that means sacrificing local jobs, so be it. If, however, you want to save local jobs temporarily, then perhaps a slow, decades-long meltdown of the brand is the route to choose.
I am actually upbeat about the company's future, but it is pretty logical that in order to earn profits, drastic changes will have to take place. Either production will have to be moved out of Europe or the brand will have to be totally revamped. I am betting that, if they want to get Saab profitable by 2012, then they will either reduce their line of products and focus on three or four highly specialized models manufactured in Sweden and sold at very high prices (Porsche prices); or they will cut costs by moving production to a lower labour-cost area and increasing production. Given that Spyker specializes in miniscule production numbers and very high prices, I am tempted to bet that that will be the direction they take. But the smart money is probably on a shift of production outside of Sweden. If Antonov is interested in laundering mob money (which many fear), this will be easier with a profitable, high-volume product than with a boutique brand.
I don't doubt that you have more expertise in the car sector, but stating that you and your colleagues believe "Saab has a good chance given the proper support" is not a particularly convincing argument. The same could be said for the Yugo.
However, I do think there is a couple of very strange things in these car discussions that just keep coming back like a bad case of herpes.
Obsession on moving production to China. I guess if technology starts moving back towards the 1800's, I guess we go labour intensive enough so that its China ad infinitum. How many people does Saab employ in the first place these days?
Another thing is the fact that so many people struggle with the fact that communism ended already. It sounds astounding, but its true. Russian actually invest in businessess. Astounding. And when it comes to mafia - have a chat with anyone who has done business there. They'll tell you the realities.
Summa summarum, I'm glad for the jobs, and I'm also glad for the market. Its rather boring if you can only get T model in all colors, as long as they are black.
To Saab I'd say: bring back teh bachelor Sonnett, a light sports car with a compact but powerful engine. And I'm buying :)
No the same could never have been said of Yugo - politcal and financial considerations were on another much lower level. What Saab needs is widespread positive support - that's not to say blind alleigence. Market building and confidence return are key factors is the rebirth of Saab.
I am the first to agree the process will be long and hard. But most motor industry business I've been involved with has faced similar struggles. Given good management and a positive market some business oddfellows can and do survive - Saab is one condidate I'd be happy to support.
It's a difficult one - certainly not cut and dry, But the prognosis is good.
I do think there's a strand of nagativity towards Saab's success. That's sad. None of us can predict the financiers ultimate aim, but they'd be daft to do anything obviously corrupt with the eyes of the world watching a company with the profile and following of Saab.
All any of us can do is hope and, dare I say it, offer support. I'm not gung-ho enough to say they will be a roaring success - but if they stick to the core values of the orginal Saab I'm convinced they will have a good market.
i am not convinced that Saab can be turned around by market-building or confidence-building. The economy is such that even the most successful and stable carmakers are struggling. To try to remake a brand in this climate is madness. How does one even start to instill buyer (or investor) confidence in this situation?
Neither do I see an obvious niche for Saab to corner. It is slightly sportier than Volvo, but beyond that it caters to much the same buyer, and Volvo is in much better position to steal market share from Saab. It cannot really compete with BMW or Audi for sex appeal or luxury; and, for a lot less money, one can get a better-performing, more reliable Honda or Toyota.
I think that if you are right and that market-building and confidence are the keys, then Saab will first have to go through a long, painful, and comprehensive brand retooling. They were struggling to compete when they were at their healthiest...it won't be any easier now if they don't alter themselves from the ground up.
That's not true. In the 1960s Saab did very well indeed - as a niche producer. Changed days, but let's remember that the economic situation we are in today is not like that of the 1930s or even the 1990s. This is a complex global recession that does not play by the same financial rules.
You are right to suggest Saab needs to rethink its place in the market and its appeal. But before that happens they need to consolidate under the new regime and develop slowly and steadily. Anyone looking for a quick fix is being unrealistic.
The firm will not e trading in a buoyant market - but careful cost analysis, careful management and good decisions on market and meeting potential customer expectations can succeed. We can't stay in recession for ever - if we do it will be curtains for everyone! Saab need to build up strength and be ready for the upswing. That might mean an entirely new range, a more eco-friendly car - who knows. But provided it meets market expectations and has the character and technical innovation of Saab of old it is something people will want.
I know it's a long shot - but so was Eurocopter when they started. Look at them now.
You missed a great opportunity to show your 40 year of experience. You could have provided some data (links) from the experts you claim have great hopes. I know they are out there, but you should back up your words with data. Leave out the personal attacks and replace it with data.
@StockhlomSam
Bravo on not returning the insults. You kept professional. And see the results. Scottsaab's following comments did not include the insults.
There is one essential element of truth that must be considered: Maybe it wasn't only GM's mismanagement and underfunding that cause the problem with SAAB. Maybe the leadership at SAAB needs to open its eyes and be more responsive and less protectionist. Blaming others will not solve SAAB's problems. I fear that blaming GM is the only lesson that is being learned.
Both labor and technology can be had more cheaply in China, and the technology is not 1800's era, either. Hence a production move to that area would be worth considering and is, indeed, why many companies with profit as the primary aim tend to outsource there...or to other Asian nations.
What's the point of tabling any factual data? I suspect you will either dismiss what does not suit your views or distort and challenge anything that seems to suggest a way ahead. I can't give you data because the context is wrong.
What I object to in this blog is the volume of unsubstantialted data and make-believe that masquerades as "fact" from some people who feel the business world is populated by crooks, mafia and charlatans. Believe me although there are some questionable people in the higher echelons of the motor industry it is not exclusive to the car business. And for every problem area there are people out there at senior level, both men and women, who are doing a superb job in a positive frame of mind to rebuild Saab. I know several of them.
Maybe the time has come to draw down a veil on this stream and let time take its course.
Beside that, all rumours of Saab-production being moved to other countries... I don't think it's a good idea. I like my Saab to be build in Sweden. And with me, most other Saab owners will. It's part of the Saab thing, although I noticed most Swedes are not sharing this feeling at all. Well, the world outside of Sweden thinks that a Saab has to come from Trollhattan!
If they do become profitable, what will be the driving force behind that? Will they change production facilities or cut salaries? Are their new cars so good that they will get them to a better sales volume than they've had for two decades, even though the world economy is in bad shape? Were they terribly mismanaged for these two decades, so that there's an enormous amount of waste that can be cut out of the company?
It all seems very doubtful. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the odds are definitely against Saab.
You don't provide data to satisfy your critics, you provide data to substantiate your input. Shooting down an opinion that is not supported by data is like shooting fish in a barrel, easy. Data provides an opportunity for valid debate. 40 years of experience is meaningless without data.
@Twiceshy
The new 9-5 is that good. It could be a game changer for SAAB. The real question is how good will the next 9-5 & 9-3, * 9-x be? Only time will tell.
Beside that, GM has an rather heavy weighted staff (indirect) organisation on top of the holding. All these costs were also spread on the daughters.
Without the internal market of the GM world, the accounting tricks and being the small daughter under the weight of the enormous GM mother, Saab can in fact become profitable again.
Don't forget that most car manufacturers now are part of a bigger conglomerate that doesn;t just have advantages, specially not for the smaller parts.
If you can get your parts from a number of suppliers, you can tender them to make a great offer. When you're obliged to use GM parts, you just get the parts they offer you to internal prices (not always the best price). Specially when there's a lot of overhead included in these prices.
Salaries in Europe are high, nevertheless some factories in Europe are the most efficient in the world. Think of Ford in Genk, Belgium and Skoda in Czechie. So, even with the higher salaries, we can still be competative in the world market.
Saab has signifcantly higher leverage (100%) than any competitor.
Muller seems charming but he Antonov connection will not help.
Where's the beef?
You could be right on the matter of GM's overhead... That's what I was referring to when I mentioned possible waste on Saab's corporate structure. But still, looking at the big picture things don't look easy for Saab.
I worked for a global IT corporation for many years. My unit, or company, was one of the many many companies comprising this entity. And each unit would need to be as cost-effective (or profitable) as possible, even though you pay for internal services the price that is set for you. It may or may not be the same as some other units are paying for it. You would get it cheaper on the market, but you cant do that. Thus, I would be rather careful about making any comments on its profitability.
Someone there mentioned that there is a negative strain in terms of Saab publicity, and I think the profitability question is one of them, and maybe the most damaging one as well.
In the end, an unprofitable company ended up buying another suffering company. The pair doesn't look promising, I certainly wouldn't bet any money on this ending well.
Just my two cents.
You miss the point - this is a blog, not a professional exchange. Do you really expect me to publish data I have in confidence? It's meaningless to present facts and figures without being directly involved and knowing the wider picture. Good heavens man, this is a complex issue!
I though this facility was to allow Saab fans, and doubters, to discuss general points - not to set themselves up as judge and jury on others.
My experience is long and widespread in the motor industry - I'm happy to offer my opinion, but don't try and cross-examine me an expect me to lay down facts and figures.
All I want to see is for Saab to succeed - it is my opinion, and that's all it is, after 40 and more years of experience that the marque can survive. Can't you be content with that and stop nit-picking?
Yes, Saab production will commence on March 22 and should reach full capacity on April 4 again.
That's great news - I believe first European 9-5 showroom cars are expected around June.