Published: 20 May 10 19:23 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/26764/20100520/
A split has opened up between the Church of Sweden and the royal family over Crown Princess Victoria’s wish to be ‘given away’ by her father, King Carl Gustaf, at her marriage to Daniel Westling next month.
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In any other country he would rely on the collection plate.
C'mon people. Sweden is like America its been made up of foreigners for a very long time. If we want to argue about traditions then why don't Swedes eat pancakes with lingon/cranberries anymore? Swedish Americans from Minnesota do!
I don't think its sexist at all. But what does a girl like me do if her father has passed away? Maybe ask a family member.
I am happy she has adopted a very "American" tradition. More power to her!
I wish her all the best.
Also this equality thing can be pushed too far... why not just take it to the logical extreme and require the entire population to become androgynous since choosing to keep either balls or boobs and refuse the other is clearly extremely sexist too?
If its wrong for a father to walk her daughter down the aisle, why invite him anyway.
It is symbolic to walk a daughter down the aisle in a wedding, it connotes trust and consent. It means you have someone to hold her accountable to.
If you marry a lady without the parents consent, then be prepared to deal with her alone when issues arise.
Miss Bernadotte has TITLE, MONEY,and PRESTIGE over her husband's what?
When Sweden removes their so-called monarchy, they will have joined the rest of the lower EU countries and the United States. Until then, who cares? Swedes are always confused and always way behind the rest of the world anyway. THEY just think they are above and beyond the rest of us! It's Ms. Victoria's wedding and she should do exactly as she pleases. King Bernadotte will surely be pleased and proud to walk his eldest child down the aisle. Grattis till C.P. Victoria and her financé.
GOD FORBID a woman wants to still get married in a church, and has a request in how she desires to perform her wedding. This Archbishop is a moron. Brides/grooms are paying the church to perform their wedding, so they should oblige the bride/groom in their requests for how the trivial/peripheral details play out.
I understand this is alien to Sweden, and perhaps the Princess should stick to purely swedish tradition, however why must it be viewed as sexism? I agree with teslar. What if Vic is just paying tribute to her father and acknowledging who he is in her life? A symbol that he is "passing the baton" of the crown from his hands, down to that of the heirs?
In any event, considering as how it seems the majority of Sweden doesn't care much for the monarchy anyway, I highly doubt brides will be rushing to copy Victoria in her choice to be led down the aisle.
Oh dear, the church has got its knickers in a twist again! And for how long has the church not been a sexist organisation?
Anyway, it's totally a non-story. It's not important whether the father accompanies the bride or not. What is important is the couple do what feels is best for them.
The church should start thinking about adapting itself. Clearly they're not busy thinking about or acting on more important issues. It's time for the church to see the light!
Loved your comment!
@will hart
I think you hit the nail on the head: this is Victoria's wedding. Hopefully a unique even in her lifetime. She should be given the right to do what she wants.
If the Church of Sweden wants to dictate how people should act (I thought that church and state were split a long time ago), then who needs to get married in a church anymore?
It doesn't HAVE to be sexist as such - clearly Victoria in this case has chosen her husband and let's face it is hardly HIM that will be HER keeper - but the antiquated symbolism of the woman being owned by a man, be it her father or her husband, remains and is sadly resonant in many parts of the world.
Those who argue "this equality thing has gone far enough" are simply providing proof of the fact that many feel that one party reserves agency. Equality is about the genuine freedom to choose, or become, different, it is not about us all choosing, or becoming, the same thing.
I think that you are correct concerning the original meaning behind the act of "giving away". But this tradition has long lost the original meaning in most places. Nowadays brides want to show honor and love for their father. That's what's behind the symbolism in this day and age.
I think that your interpretation of "equality has gone far enough" is off. I think it IS all about the freedom to choose and not about supporting one party having "agency" over another, and in this case this equality IS going too far, it is trying to take away her freedom to choose. It's HER wedding. If both Victoria and Daniel agree that this is what they choose, who is anyone else to argue with them? If you don't like it, do it differently in your own wedding but leave what other wish to do alone. Live and let live, I say.
We may be guided by certain conventions and rituals a particular church or religion prefers but let's think about who they should be looking after - themselves or us?
We must never be slaves of a system not allowed to question or change existing behaviours.
The church serves the people - not the other way round!
Wake up Askar! Maybe you are happy to be an unquestioning slave?
Church is full of closet peado's anyway so how dare they determine how the ceremony should be carried out. Its their Wedding, not the Church's
Would be fun if D asked his mum to hold his hand down the aisle as well, now that would be a nice way to show honour and love to his old dear.
On another, related, point affecting the freedom of young Swedes -
http://www.thelocal.se/26766/20100521/
You obviously don't know me. And I continue to say, if you want to play their game stick to their rules. As for me I play elsewhere.
No, I don't know you.
The point I was trying to make was that no-one should blindly obey a system as the system is there to serve the people.
Also, systems usually need to adapt with changing circumstances, so anyone using the church's services should question and influence what it's doing.
So that's why I disagree with your point.
PS
I also 'play elsewhere'.
No, if they go through with this blasphemy I am officially against the monarchy since they have then stopped being representers of the Swedish nation.
Oh dear, another one living in the past.
We have progresed a long way from the old days, looking up to 'superiors' and figureheads as examples of people and systems we must follow; being told how to act and what to do.
Nothing represents Sweden or any other nation more than the actual people. The figureheads are as exactly you say, 'symbolic' - but that's all.
Let's get a reality check here and just remind ourselves what the actual 'problem' is: it's the father going down the aisle instead of the groom. Wow! Wake Up!
idiots. Let her do what she wants to do!
Being given away by your father is not sexist at all. Someone mentioned it was being passed from one man's ownership to another, but I disagree. It was about the father no longer being responsible for the daughter, having to feed and clothe her etc etc, but that responsibility was passed on to the daughter's husband to be, thus the giving away. it's the father saying he trusts the young man to do the right thing and protect and provide for his daughter. That can hardly be called sexist. That term is too loosely flung around nowadays, it's lost all power.
Point two:
If Swedes are so against Victoria's adopting this "foreign" tradition, it's just one more thing showing how xenophobic Swedes are. If you're going to be so against anything foreign, not Swedish tradition, then you should be against Halloween, trying out new foods that aren't Swedish, and any number of other things that have arrived in Sweden. You shouldn't purchase anything from Subway, American Apparel, McDonald's, Burger King, Apple, or Amazon. Swedes should also then stop incorporating English words, especially swear words, into their vocabularies.
If you look back through Swedish history, I'm absolutely 100% sure you'll find many instances where "tradition" was put aside, people grumbled, but look! The world didn't come to an end, it just went on living. Grow up Sweden, the world is changing everyday, and if you don't change too, you'll get left behind. What a sad day that will be for you.
I had to chuckle when the quote from the church suggested because of this they would have a hard time trying to force brides to not have weddings in the fashion they desire. Claiming it's sexism is just trying to hide 'not wanting to change and be modern' behind a more politically-correct face.
SaraRF said "It was about the father no longer being responsible for the daughter, having to feed and clothe her etc etc, but that responsibility was passed on to the daughter's husband to be, thus the giving away." Case in point. Either you see what is said here, or you don't. End of story.
While we have our problems here in the States, I'm glad that we dealt with our Monarchy and "Church and State" issues a long time ago!
Having been married for a number of years, I realize it does not matter that Princess Victoria is of royalty or being escorted down the aisle by her father. We all know who will be "ruling the roost," so to speak, once the marriage is completed!
I wish the happy couple well, and particularly Mr. Westling, in their future married life!
They should elope to Vegas, get drunk and get hitched Brittney Spears style. I vote for an Elvis wedding, with a James Browne wedding as second choice. That would teach the archbish to a bit of repect. "Your sacked bish, we've got Elvis instead".
I "gave" away my daughter, and would I for a moment think she was not entirely following her free wish and will I would not even entered the church… nor would she.
There is tradition to consider, and tradition is important. However, the larger concern is what should be done for the Ceremony to be a warm, loving celebration that gives Victoria, Daniel, and the family the wedding they want, and also makes Sweden feel good about itself.
Absent any political power, that is the practical role (outside of political ceremony) of Monarchies today where they still exist; to make their country feel good about itself. Princess Di did that for Britain with the 'Royal Wedding', ill-fated as it was, and it will be the same with Victoria in Sweden.
I think there's a lot to be said for sticking with tradition for something as momentous as a Royal Wedding. Though I don't think the Archbishop should be mouthing off about it publicly. It is Victoria's decision. The wedding itself is not being done for the sake of tradition, more important is that it is successful and meaningful; for the couple, and for the country.
"The idea that the women entering the church together with her father...would have to mean that the man and the woman are not entering the marriage of their own free will is so plain ludicrous and silly"
The only thing ludicrous and silly is having such a one-sided, polarised interpretation. People will have their own interpretations of this custom.