Swedish court considers sadomasochism case

I'm all for saying "whatever floats your boat" as long as it's between consenting adults and they're not hurting anyone else.

The government shouldn't have any say in peoples' sex lives as long as they're not breaking any laws or doing something so horribly stupid that someone could get killed.

There are many people who enjoy different aspects of bdsm from light spanking, to handcuffs, to more extreme stuff. Outside in the public world these people are perfectly normal, have professional jobs, families etc.

People get off on differnet things for different reasons. You could literally think of almost anything and have a good chance of finding someone in the world that gets erotic enjoyment from it, from shoes to green Jell-O.

It worries me that the government might be allowed to have a say in something so personal, private and enjoyable (to them) that happens between consenting adults.

As far as the safety thing goes, I have a couple friends who are in their local bdsm scene and have asked them about it many times. Almost every decent-sized town has some kind of community for this. There are clubs, people who organizes get-togethers and most relative to this article there are a ton of "safe play" workshops, they're often lead by doctors. That community on the whole seems to be way more open, honest and educated about not only being safe and respectful while "playing" but also just sex in general. Yeah, people might get a few bruises or a mark from a paddle but light bruises and marks aren't necessarily dangerous.

The fact that there's a 16 year old involved makes this one a little harder for me. A 16 year old may be of legal age to consent to sex here but that doesn't mean that they're mature enough mentally for "normal" sex or the emotional things that come with it. That may even be more true with "kinky" sex where the emotional give and take comes to the forefront.

What the above guy said, not my thing either but: different strokes for different folks ;)

The fact that one of them is 16 while the other is a "proper adult" is a bit disturbing though and borders on pedo land IMHO.

.....but she was 16 years old!??!?!

What kind of system allows a 16 yr old to engage in these types of activities with a 32 yr old. At the age you can give em an xbox or a couple sets of new shoes and they'll agree to anything

Regarding the kinky sex, if it is between two consenting adults, I don't care if they dress up in pink gorilla outfits and swing from the chandelier's. I do however reserve the right to laugh my head of, if I do find out about it.

The thing about this case is this. A 16 year old should not be involved in BDSM. That is to young.

Personally I think 32 year olds should not be allowed to have sex with a 16 year old.

The 32 year old in question, should be banned from even speaking to a woman under 20, let alone anything else.

This case will be used by puritan lunatics to attack consenual sex between freely consenting adults. The ramifications of this case go way beyond the actual case.

I have a feeling that is what this case is actually about.

Well, these kinds of issues are certain to arise when the age of legal consent to sex is so low.

The law is the law and yes, as longs as she agreed she should take the consiquences.

It never ceases to amaze me how people seem to think they know better than nature & get in such a tiz about sexual matters. 16 is well past puberty. To ensure survival of genes it is NATURE that determines that it is in your vital genetic interests to reproduce as soon as puberty has passed.

Sixteen may seem a really young age to be having sex, particularly to the Americans posting here. In most US states teenagers under the age of eighteen aren't allowed to learn about sex in school, let alone have it. But here in Sweden, the legal age of consent is actually fifteen, and therefore the sixteen year-old girl discussed the article is old enough to do whatever she wants with whomever she wants.

What this is not, is pedophilia. It's not even close to pedophilia. A true pedophile would find a post-pubescent girl to be disgusting and would certainly never be attracted to anyone over the age of ten. The proper word for someone attracted to teenagers is ephebophile.

This is however, one of those difficult situations where the younger person is of legal age but is still perceived socially as being too young, especially since the older person occupies a position of authority over her.

Indeed Miss Kitten. And it is peception that is wrong & not the fact. A percepion of indoctrinated sheep herded by Elites & media in who's interests minds are manipulated to conform & never to question conventional "wisdom", & never dare to ask... Why? It is only very recently in Human history in the 20th Century after birth of PR to put forward a consumerest society that women have begun to reproduce later even though it perilous to her genitic interest. In natural terms an older male from late 20s to early 40s is a naturaly more attractive mate in every way as he is in his physical most likely intelectual prime & in addition has proved the quality of his genes by the mere fact he has survived this long. Equally the male sees the young femail as a obviously having a longer period of fertility... You see folks, nature is awesome & entirely logical. Is the society of conditioned subconsess we live in today?

In the US there are people who believe that sex education should not be taught at school however, I am of the mind that it should be. At what age, well that is debatable. I don't believe that an adult of 32 should be having the above described sex with a 16 yr old boy or girl. The teen may think they know what they are doing but they have not had enough life experience to make that kind of decision regarding S &M sex. A teen who wants to be accepted as an adult will do whatever they think they need to do. But once they have made the decision and find it is not something he/she thought it would be but then don't know how to get out of the situation. So the teen goes along with it anyway. And this is where the problem is. If the court decides it's okay, then when a young person changes their minds when does it become rape?

Gramma Mona in California

Focus!

Its not about whatever age they are, but what they are doing. They are both above the age of CONSENT in sweden. So leave all your age issues aside. However unpleasant this may feel with your other agendas.

Apparently, The pain inflicted seems to be rather mild; caging and nipple clamps. However, i assume, they actually had more severe stuff going on and are reluctant to tell about it. And anyhow, how you are going to rule about this?

Establishing a border of conduct in BDSM relationships, and some instances and peculiarities (established by the heteronormal majority no worries my friend) being illegal between consenting partners? Can we clamp? Can we not?

Does not matter anyhow. Both parties can say in court. " What? no? Never?" and case is really moot.

Do not expect swedish courts to rule logically or even abide the law, They are heavily politically biased in the first instances and election year you are going to see som pedophile crazies spilling over on this.

Yours

At what age are people classed as adults in Sweden? When can they vote? When can they buy tobbacco? When can they buy Alcohol? This should be the age that you can consent to S&M.

#Javlaengelsman

The necessity to produce as many babies as possible, before death at an average age of 25, has long since past, along with woolley mammoths and sabre tooth tigers. Nature hasn't quite caught up with the modern world yet, and until it does, we will just have to take responsibility for planning our lives to suit our present environment ourselves. No matter what our genetic instinct to procreate might tell us.

Part of that responsibility is to delay childbirth until we are able to deal with it. Most of the 16 year olds I know are incredibly irresponsible when it comes to sex. Rising abortion and sexually transmitted disease figures amongst the young are not what nature intended at all.

Until nature carries out a few design changes, 16 year olds should be taught that their genes will be perfectly well passed on, even if they keep their pants up and delay reproduction for a few years. Most of them will live way past 25; it's just that nature hasn't worked that out yet.

Boo to the Legal system in sweden that has to rule over every single god damn thing!!! Yes Boo, so what now, are they gonna rule how a big a and thick penis makes damage to the partner???? Is anal sex forbiden depending on the size???

But the note on sadomasochism is awesome!!!

Kevin, your arguement is unsceintific. It is in a life forms genetic interest to reproduce as soon as it is able. Modern consumerist society doesn't change this. The very essence, the meaning of life is the survival & propagation of your genes, no more no less. I'm not proposing every girl go and get herself pregnant asap just dispelling the ridiculous moral issues people still have with sex. So, you see it's like this. Lets say you are 1 day short of the age of concent, you havent reproduced.. You get hit by a bus, you die. Its the end of you, your genes, nothingness. You have lost your chance of imor tality. For this reason nature intends for us to reproduce as soon as we pass puberty. When you have passed puberty you are emotionally & physically able as you ever will be to reproduce. It is only manufactured mass hysteria of very recent modern society that that has less conscious members of it in such a hysterical tiz about the most important thing we & all life forms do... Sex. Nature will be here long after man made society has vanished with out trace. Re the S & M I think the issue is moot regardless of age. Would you say that a 16 year old can not take part in a rough of risky sport? I thing that the law should come in on a case by case basis only where lasting harm has occured or there is clear case where consent has not been given with the charge being assault rather than the sexual which only creates irational hysteria among the sexually repressed.

We had a guy around these parts who got arrested for having sex with a horse...unfortunately while a school bus was passing by.

I guess I'm cool with the whatever floats your boat philosophy as long as no one gets hurt. However, if that sick f---had S&M with my 16 year old daughter, he would die a painful death. Even if I had to serve 22 months in prison!

I can't think of any legitimate reason anybody would be having sex with a sixteen year old. I would advocate you take an Axe or an Assault Rifle to any b12turd that does! That would be legal under the temporary insanity clause where I live and I would advise all Fathers and Brothers to do that. Trust me the 32 year old pervet's Genes will not be missed.

I believe a person should only be permitted to consent to reasonable violence, and that a reasonable person would not consent to Grievous Bodily Harm (although in this case it does not appear to have gone beyond s22 Assault). I personally believe the decision in R v Brown [1992] UKHL 7 (11 March 1993): [1993] 2 All ER 75, [1994] 1 AC 212, [1992] UKHL 7, [1993] 2 WLR 55 to be absolutely on the ball. In this case the young girl is clearly a Juvenile and therefore there are serious concerns over her capacity to consent, and where a person has reached aged of majority, serious questions have to be asked as to whether a reasonable person with sufficient mental capacity would consent to assault occasioning Actual Bodily Harm?

Did any of the discussers think what is good for the involved persons? Since this kind of deviation probably cannot be cured, the girl will probably continue with this, but she will have to do this in secret. The court decision will have no effect on that, people cannot control everything by laws, although Swedes apparently think they can... And as long as there no health risk I don't see a problem there. Pain is just a feeling like many others.

I wonder what Max Mosley would think of this case :)

@wenddiver

Does your comment include the hundreds of thousands of African & Arab men who marry girls from the age of 12?? I know of a Gambian (muslim) of 44 who's latest wife (5th) is 12 yrs old & pregnant!

Wenddiver is your opinion influenced by pier pressure of the manufactured subconscious of your society? I can think of many legitimate, natural & logical reason. 16 is several years past puberty. Are you aware that the average of sexual consent in Europe is 14 or 15? In Sweden it is 15. Why do you think?

what is that sex website ... would love to try it out..

No idea about the bdsm site. But I think consenting people should be free to try what ever they want so long as they do not cause lasting harm to the other party. Irational Sexual Moral hysteria of the type associated with America is a form of social mind control in which the only interest that is served is consumerism. Free yourselves.

List of people who are wrong in this thread:

Kronaboy & Decedo (do not understand the age of consent)

wenddiver (does not understand that kinky sex, even if illegal, is less criminal than being a violent murdering savage)

Swedesmith & Nemesis (either joking or hypocrites)

Javlaengelsman & Kevin Harris (neither understands biology or the actual reasons people have sex)

GMona (hasn't heard of safewords, thinks people should be prevented from having life experiences until they have more life experience)

G Kin (apparently thinks that BDSM is some sort of punishment for agreeing to BDSM)

The real questions of the case should be:

Was she permanently injured, or placed in danger of permanent injury or death?

Was she at any time unable to express her genuine desire to stop, or expressed her desire to stop and had it ignored?

@waffle

add yourself to your own list.

If neither party to the activity has filed a complaint to the police then it, neither party has been admitted to hospital or the morgue and neither party paid the other, then it is none of the courts business.

Hell I was 14 when I first had sex with an 18yr old girl ,she should be burnt at the stake and repent her sins to keep the prudish happy , when I was sixteen I was doing things that would have made my parents actually turn off Coronation Street ,but I never let them know ,too much pain and no video recorder then .

I can always remember the vicar,s wife ,big breasts and extremely short skirts ,when she came to my house on many ocassions I could never leave my seat as a bit embarrasing ,I was hopeless at Maths and she offered me private tuition ,could not believe my luck that is until the day my parents went to see Mrs Robinson ,a film about a mature women seducing a younger guy and said they thought that private tuition was out the question.(gutted)

This was in the Seventies , teens nowadays are even more liberated ,my mate and his 17 yr old girlfriend stayed in my house for a while ,she had already had sex with 32 guys ,he was 30 and her parents were fine with that ,they never considered him to be a paedophile ,seems the UK is far more liberated sexually than Sweden.

16 in the UK ,straight and homosexual is the lawful age of consent ,it,s up to them who they choose ,age, colour ,race , religion !

It has to be their choice and not at all enforced .

Do you not have boxing in Sweden?

A lot of the American posters think 18 is the only acceptable age of consent, it appears. In the US, the age of consent is both a state and a federal issue. When transporting someone across state lines, 18 is the age of consent. Otherwise, it is completely up to the state to determine it. In half of the states of the US, the age of consent is 16 -- mainly the South, New England, and the Northwest.

@Renfeh Hguh

So you accept the principle that the law can forbid wholly consensual acts of prostitution, but reject the idea that a prosecution can take place without either a complaint, a corpse, or a hospital admission?

You can join the list too, for blatant inconsistency.

There's something wrong with the idea of a 16 yr old sleeping with a 32 yr old. The levels of maturity, experience, and common sense are so different. My personal opinion is that the age difference is kinda nasty, but whatever.

If she's old enough to decide what to do, she's old enough to deal with the consequences. But the other question I think is, was this guy absolutely unable to find a consenting adult closer to his own age to play with? Why the need to have fun with a 16 yr old? Some sick kind of ego boost? I dunno... something isn't right there.

You know, despite not being from Sweden, I can not obstain from commenting on this case.

1st off, let me start out by saying that I admittingly have to wonder what the h*** a 16-year old sees in a 32-year old, and even more what a 32-year old sees in a 16-year old. I just don't get that. But frankly, my and other people's ability or lack of ability to understand this is utterly irrelevant to this case. Both people are classed as legally consenting adults, and for that reason the rest of us have the right to keep our opinions on the matter to ourselves, as our opinions have absolutely no importance what so ever.

As far as I can understand from the media coverage I've stumbled across concerning this case, the relevant facts of the matter are that two legally consenting adults decided to engage in acts that they for one reason or another found appealing to them. As the "victim" has apparently not had any desire to bring charges against the 32-year old male, it must be assumed that the actions carried out have been carried out within the confines of what the two parties have either agreed upon beforehand, or found to be acceptable. Noone except the two have been involved in the incident, and noone else were supposedly intended to be involved either.

Based on this interpretation of situation I have to say this in as loud and clear a voice as I can possibly manage.

Ulrika Rogland. Drop the charges and find a case where there is actually an agrieved non-consensual party involved. I realise that you might be doing this in order to try and establish a president that can make convictions in other actual cases easier to achieve. But if you, God forbid, manage to win this case, you also trample over two people's right to engage in concensual acts that harm no-one, and you create a president that can be exploited by non-scrupulous individuals, in order to trample over other people's civil rights. It's not worth it. It's not worthy of you. And the possible consequences of a conviction either way is not well thought out.

Drop the case.