Published: 1 Jul 10 14:46 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/27548/20100701/
Compulsory military service officially came to end in Sweden on Thursday after 109 years, setting the non-aligned nation on the path to developing a fully professional army.
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Also a professional fighting force would servce more efficiently in say Afghanistan.
Boy you said a mouthfull there, excellent.
"As in the U.S., a voluntary (mercenary) army with its over-representation of certain political types will, over time, develop an antipathy toward civilians and civilian control of the military. if the government in power is not to their liking. We have seen disturbing signs of this under both Bill Clinton and now, Barack Obama. Clearly, universal service mitigates against this, as it does against most wars."
I have to disagree, the tradition of civilian control of the military is too strong in the u.s. for that, it began with Washinton, and continues today. If your refering to the episode with McCrystal don't forget he got his job by being an avowed Obama supporter and his aides comments were leveled mostly at the cabinet and Biden, not Obama, also bear in mind everyone b_tches about the boss, just human nature.
"As in the U.S., a voluntary (mercenary) army with its over-representation of certain political types will, over time, develop an antipathy toward civilians and civilian control of the military. if the government in power is not to their liking."
Male bovine fecal matter! (buy a dictionary and work it out)
I was going to be drafted in the last draft held in the US, and decided to enlist. Sure the draft was rough, it let in drug addicts, criminals, and the majority of the rest did not want to be there. The result was an antipathy toward civilians and civilian control of the military. I stayed in for the transition to an all volunteer force and the morale, professionalism, and support of civilian control INCREASED. It is obvious you have never served, or even discussed this rationally with those men and women who do and have. Often these same men and women give their lives defending civilian freedoms.
If you use that dictionary I recommended, you would find that fails to meet the definition of antipathy. It does however meet the definition of hero.
It is obvious you have not only not served, but have not really bothered to discuss this issue with those men and women who defend our (US)
Don't worry, we will come and help you like we always do for our allies.
Anywho, a strong army is great cuz then we can take back Norway!!! Oil for everyone!
First, I'll ignore the gratuitous invective. I served during the same transition time you did. I have a dictionary and know how to use it, but what I need here is a DSM IV.
@babychuma
I know McCrystal said he voted for Obama. Previous to the Rolling Stone article, which was somewhat overblown, McCrystal engaged Obama in a surreptitious debate through the press regarding Afghanistan policy. During Clinton's presidency, a colonel on active duty in North Carolina (I think) menacingly warned him not to visit that state as serious harm could come to him.
If enough voters do not have a sober view of all things related to warfare, it alone creates a harmful mood to the nation. Tsk tsk Sweden!
Why do I have the feeling that if the story was "Mandatory service to be instituted in Sweden", we would hear that a draft means certain war, since you have so many soldiers hanging out with nothing to do... just take the US in Vietnam and Israel in Lebanon.
Moreover, my statements were not based on hearsay. They were based on completely authenticated reports of the officer's statements. As for theories, we all have them. Yes, there are Democrats and Republicans and soldiers in secret Aryan Nation cells whose agenda at any given time does not comport with that of the President or most Americans. It has been acknowledged in and out of the military that this problem has grown considerably with the all volunteer military.
Of course, all the 'discipline' brigade will be out, bemoaning the loss of respect in society because young people are no longer taught the value of respect. What was that value in Sweden, Sek 50 or Sek 100 per day? (allowance whilst on lumpen). The Secretary of Defence's children gets more allowance per day (sourced 6 years ago).
Neither discipline nor respect are taught with hypocrisy, nor do 'professional attitudes' develop under systems of enforced 'slavery'. 'Disciplined and structured environments' to pass on to their children usually meant, in the UK, the binge-drinking, gambling, swearing and brutalising. Oh, and that wonderful quality of 'national-servicemen' - the ability to always look busy whilst doing nothing. This was discipline???
You gotta be jokin!
As an employe,r I always try to hire the US Veterans, out of simple economic self-interest. They tend to be better able to handle emergencies, more loyal, more physically fit and way more mature, more likely to show up for work and better able to give a decent opinion and follow instructions. Of course they are coming from an all volunteer Army and a very Professional Reserve system.
Our kids we hire off the street are a ussually a problem. Rude to the customers, not coming to work, stealing, lots of inapproptiate behaviors like drinking at work, dressing retarded. Basic problem, Zero self-discipline.
Sweden will gain from a proffessional Army, but her youth will probably lose that discipline advantage. Army's are also very good at uniting a people, after the service in my country everbody is an American, but many of us were foreigners or immigrants. or thought of themselves as some racial group before.
Youths having no direction in their lives
Youths having no base for self constraint
No respect for the older generation
No sense of duty or penance to one's country
Loss of moral values and lack of self esteem
So Sweden can look foward to a higher crime rate, youths strolling the streets making a nuisance of themselves to the general public
Many countries I'm sure wished they turned the clock back given the crime rates
There are distinct advantages in moudling the young to ensure that they will
pass on the skills that they have learned through the armed forces
Hope you are prepared for it .. other countries were not and now are facing a delinquent generation .. you only have to look at the UK
Rise in murders by youths, stabbings, and other nasty crimes
Growing yob culture,
Gangs roaming the streets
Is Sweden prepared for this ?
Probably not
Seems the politicians didn't bother to pop their head outside to see how other countries were coping ... well in my opinion not very well ..
Very sad
I would respectfully ask where you obtained your list of social ailments? Was it a 1950's, 1960's, 1970's or even 1980's newspaper?
If young people (both sexes) lack direction and most of everything else on your 'gripe list' we could perhaps ask the question about the 'leading by example' basis of role modelling. What example has been set? None of the major institutions, whether democratic (I see you are also in the 'blame the politicians for everything' club), religious (become a priest???), legal (police chiefs, lawyers, judges charged with depraved offences), or even the institution of family (many relinquishing their responsibility to the state or abusing their role - thinking they own their children).
Your answer to right all these inherent hypocrisies is to conscript young people so that we can teach them the arts of killing???
Yes, it's sad. It's sad that we older generations can only stereotype young people as thugs and villains - whereas the vast majority are caring, compassionate and fairly well motivated individuals - given the restraints within society.
How can we as societies take bundles of human joy as babies and turn them into.....conscripted soldiers..as a penance for being born in this or that country???
No wonder thinking young people often despair of the stereotyped thought patterns of the older generations.
It's very sad...for human progress.
Do you really think that govs have got rid of conscription out of some noble reason? Defense monies are better spent on technological improvements - not apathetic manpower.
My family has been scarred by the casualties of war. And it didn't have to be that way.