Terminally ill woman denied early pension

Cancer is NOT a deadly illness, unless you take it so. At 40, one should be young and strong enough to live and be active, and not give up. Instead of going to court and creating a media fuzz, this woman should get a second opinion about her condition and find effective alternative treatments - of which there are indeed a few. If she happens to change her mind, because apparently she has decided that she won't live for long...

Greetz from a cancer survivor, who feels and looks probably better than ever - BTW, I handled my issue in Hungary, because the only help I got here in Sweden was in discovering the cancer, but it was pathetic what I was offered as treatment...

She cannot cash her pension but there are other benefits she can draw on .i.e Sickness benefits etc.

Andrea, that is the most inaccurate and insensitive statement ever. Are you crazy? You d*mn well better believe cancer can be terminal! Any stage 4 cancer that has infiltrated multiple organs beyond the ability to salvage, can be (and usually is) terminal. Stage 4 ovarian cancer, many pancreatic cancers, some forms of brain and lung cancer that are all in very advanced stages when diagnosed and/or are inoperable, are all terminal. People with terminal cancer are usually given medication to ease their pain until it they die. Just because you survived cancer doesn't mean all cancer is therefore survivable.

It is horrifying that she can't cash in her pension, it is a measly sum of money and all she wants to do is take her two kids camping, it's not like she's asking for a freaking amazonian safari. She should just take out a loan and then let it default when she passes away.

mjennin2:

You are absolutely right: cancer is a deadly illness - just as countless other illnesses when not treated properly. This lady can listen to her doctors and give up - or she can choose to learn about cancer a bit more and cure herself, as many in very advanced stages have done.

And yes, you are right again: I was crazy enough not to believe what my Swedish doctors said and went to find a SOLUTION. And you d*mn well better educate yourself on the subject a bit more.

Ehmm, coming from someone who has had cervical cancer, who has lost 7 female family members to breast cancer (3 of whom died of terminal cases at the point of diagnosis) and whose best friend died three years ago of recurring hodgkins disease, I know plenty enough about cancer and it's ravaging effects. We all know that TL does a fantastic job of leaving out the specific details of any given story, however you'll notice it said, "...wanted to cash in her pension account early in order to travel with her family ***while she still had the strength.***" How do you know she's just giving up? I'm pretty sure any mother of two children would fight to live. If she was given a terminal diagnosis, perhaps she wants to spend the last days with her children WHILE SHE STILL HAS STRENGTH prior to giving it one last hurrah.

But you don't know anything about what form of cancer she has. Saying that it is treatable and that she is not deserving of a few measly dollars to take her kids camping just a few swedish miles away from home is horrible. There are countless forms of cancer that are inoperable or incurable, no matter how they are treated. Sure you can still attempt to aggressively treat it with chemo etc, but it would be a miracle to survive. Not to mention, as was the case with my late best friend Alese, she had already undergone 3 stem cell transplants, and had "max'd out" her chemo and radiation. You can only have just so much chemo and radiation before IT kills you, you can only have just so much of it in a period of years before you can't have any more. That's when you start doing clinical trials (like Alese did) where you subject yourself to experimental medications and procedures because it is your only hope and consolation that you are donating your well-being to science and the potential to find a cure.

Pardon her for wanting to spend time with her little ones on a freaking CAMPING TRIP prior to doing this, or perhaps prior to leaving her children with family so SHE can go to Hungary to find treatment and potentially die and never see them again.

Have a heart.

I'm with you Mjennin, 100%.

"Cancer is NOT a deadly illness, unless you take it so. At 40, one should be young and strong enough to live and be active, and not give up."

This statement by Andrea is ridiculous given that there is no mention of the type, severity, or stage of the Cancer. There is also another side to consider: For various reasons to do with beliefs or quality or life, some people choose no treatment at all and that is their choice.

Jeez

The woman has terminal breast cancer and will never reach pension age - she just wants to use her pension money to give her kids some memories

Sometimes the Swedish government screws up in ways one would never expect. This is one of those ways. Good grief, the kids are 10 and 13, their mom is dying, let them have some good memories of her being healthy and enjoying her time with them before she's reduced to a bed 24/7.

If Skatteverket is so scared of losing those 23 000kr because they're short on cash, maybe they should re-evaluate their budgeting and see what else they can cut out. I'm sure they can find something. Like settling for 2-ply toilet paper instead of 3-ply?

You know, it seems that about every month or so, I read some article about some heartless bureaucratic decision, which i find shocking. I am new to this country, and frankly, I think there is something very subversive and disturbing going on. First, we need to question why an article does not mention names. Are these stories contrived to intimidate people? If not, is there a mindset among gov. agency workers, bureaucrates, or just workers in general that pits them against anyone who is vulnerable or in need? Do these people who make decisions, whether it be the tax agency, migrations, banks, etc. base their decisions on personal grudges, or are they given strict guidelines by higher ups? So many of us have had the experience of "its who you talk to", and is that the case with this decision? Are agencies given quotas that they attempt to meet which save money for the government? The cold hearted, inhumane behavior so often displayed by those deciding important matters about other peoples lives, is not what I expected to find in this country. I expected a country where the people were kind and worked and supported each other, which makes a country strong. Has Sweden caught itself up in some Capitalistic/Egotistical fever at the expense of something great, lost?

Having lived in both America and Sweden, I am always interested in stories that bring to light the differences between the two countries. In America this woman would have no better luck dealing with the government nor her insurance company, I believe. Bureaucracies are heartless. However, her friends, co-workers and/or fellow church members would have most likely arranged a fund raiser to help this poor woman out. Perhaps someone with a charitable heart and more knowledge of this woman can organize something.

By the way, Andrea, you have a point. Not knowing what type or stage of cancer this woman has, one cannot make an accurate diagnosis of the situation. I would, however advise this woman to get a second or third opinion and fight with every thing she has. Many cancers can be survived.

Come on people she has cancer. It seems only right to give her the pension she is entitled too before she dies.

mjennin and Raiha,

I am not saying that she shouldn't be able to take out her money (which is indeed not a huge amount and it wouldn't hurt Skatteverket, only would give them a better name for their goodwill...), no I am not that cold hearted.

All I am saying is that (true, not knowing the type and stage of her cancer), the woman would be better off with finding out cures that INDEED work, for THERE ARE, people have in fact come back even from the VERY LAST stages, when they were given only maybe weeks by the doctors. From the MOST VARIOUS types of cancer. And no, not with praying and hoping and believing, but to getting down to the ROOT of the disease and handling THAT - and THIS is what modern medicine doesn't do, instead they only try to handle SYMPTOMES, pretty much by trial and error...

For HOW THE HECK do you handle something when you don't know the CAUSE of it? And yes, radiation and chemo KILLS and it IS indeed a miracle if one gets well with them at all.

And all what I am saying is that the lady's life is in her own hands: she is the only one to decide if she puts it in the hands of incompetent doctors and believes them that she can't do anything anymore, or she takes control over her own life and does everything possible to get well. It looks like she didn't chose the second option.

If I don't feel pity for this woman and start sobbing and feeling deep sympathy for her, and you think I am heartless, you are welcome to do so.

In such situations PRACTICAL things help more than to say "oh, poor girl, poor girl, how sorry I feel for you...", I guess.

I have the phone number and the email address to the Hungarian doctor, if someone needs it, he speaks very good English, he studied both standard and alternative medicine and spent quite some time in the States - I can honestly offer TRUE help with that. (the 5th one I consulted and who helped me the most, to get well quickly and whose explanations and recommendations made the most sense to me and still keep me in a good shape, looking and feeling very much younger than my age )

But do you understand how rare it is to survive a terminal cancer, even through the use of alternative medicines, aggresive drug cocktails, explaratory (and nearly always fatal) surgeries, and the like? In your original comment, you essentially said that she was too young to die from any cancer, no matter how bad it is, and instead she has given up and chooses to create a media frenzy instead of subject herself to horrific treatments that still only give her a 5% hail mary chance at survival. I don't mean to tear you apart, I can tell you are genuinely passionate about persuading people to never give up based on your own experiences. I'm just saying that this is obviously not a sham worthy of skatteverket denying her request, because it is a small sum of money, she is accepting her fate (whether or not she chooses to enjoy the last bit of her strength now and then fight it to the death after her trip), and all she wants is to go on a small camping trip with her children. Skatteverket isn't even cheating the mom, that's the thing; they are cheating the children, who ARE going to live, and would be better off in healing and adjusting to life if/when mom dies, having had this one last warm, loving, pschologically-beneficial experience. I am simply flabbergasted by this whole story.

i pity her..andrea, have a heart..not all people will go through like u..some are lucky some are not..dont put ur position as same as urs..

wrong typo-dont put ur position same as hers

Well said mjennin2. I would also like to add that though I believe AndreaGerak has some good insight about the nature of cancer, (depending on how advance it is), overall, most people do not know what it feels like to have Cancer, or, what is intailed, in order to be able to put up the best fight for your life. Facing ones own death can be very stressful, because most people are concerned for the ones they will leave behind. Also, it takes great focus on healing, and giving all that you can. If she is not expected to find work, like some in this situation, she is fortunate. Still, the main thing, is if she has been informed of the seriousness of her condition, the pension is hers, the bank itself gave her clearance, and it is such a small amount... the fact that the tax agency cannot see fit to learn how to deal with an legitimate exception seems more based, oned again, the inability to step outside of the box, and behave compassionately.

Mjennin:

Maybe it is very rare to survive terminal cancer - I know a good couple of people. And they didn't get well from aggressive drug coctails and horrific treatments, that's not what I was referring to. Proper vitamins and other nutritions, detox and such kind of things. And handling the mental cause of it, for that one comes first.

Yes, you are right again :-) : I am passionate about that people should never give up - maybe it is just my positive attitude which might be uncomfortable for some people, but I am a crazy artist, that should pass for an excuse... For there is ALWAYS something one can do about a situation, no matter how bad it seems, given that the person has really DECIDED to make it go right.

miss79: This is why I can't (or better put: don't want to) feel sorry for this lady... This has not much to do with being lucky. We have a saying: "Everyone is the smith of his own luck" - I hope the concept is clear, I'm sure this exists in some form in English, too, or in other languages.

If a person has decided to make it go right, I will see what can I do to help them - but if he or she hasn't, well, tough sh*t for them, what shall I do? Crying and sighing "oh, oh, oh" won't help much, that's just my opinion... But it's completely fine, if you or other people like to do it.

BTW, stress is a #1 cause for cancer, so this woman is just making it worse for her condition by introverting into this fight (going against The Almighty Tax Office and going to court in general is not a relaxing walk in the park), so she should better (d*mn well better ;-) give herself a break, sit down for an hour or two so that she can find out a vital information that her doctors probably haven't told her: that she should skip sugar TOTALLY, as another #1 cause of cancer. Who knows, she would maybe even start to feel better...

Alright, that was all from me (oh yeah, about Skatteverket's stand: there are some exceptionally fantastic super-duper things in this country about laws and regulations, but there are some bureaucratic ones as well, to the same great extent...) - I have written a few articles about my experiences and observations on cancer, especially on cancer politics, if someone cares to read them, like this one http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/stuckinstockholm/2010/04/09/cancer-research-forward-or-backward

I have not read all of the replies, but omg Andrea get a grip on reality and don't be so insensative! To say some one is giveing up because they are young and should be able to fight it, can be quite offending and upseting to some. Do you not think a mother who watches her small child ravaged by the agony of cancer would do absolutely ANYTHING to save her dying baby??? Sorry but the reality is, sometimes your body just gives up, even if your mind does not. Some times you just can't fight the inevitable, no matter how strong minded and determined to find a cure you are!

To suggest that a woman of 40 is merely "giveing up" because "she is young enough to fight it", are comments that will just hurt a lot of people who have lost some one to cancer, including all those mums who have had watch their child die an agonising death! It is a very rare miracle that some one has come back fron the brink, for if it were that common there wouldn't be as high a rate of deaths from cancer.

Andrea,

You're now starting to sound like a religious fanatic worshipping at the doors of optimism...agressive, judgemental, my way or the highway, optimism.

In your own words... "If a person has decided to make it go right, I will see what can I do to help them - but if he or she hasn't, well, tough sh*t for them."

Preach your sugarless life in the streets on a soapbox - put your mind towards prevention - rather than deriding this woman for whom giving up sugar sure ain't going to save her life. You sound like you live in Disneyland...

@Andrea Greak, hope you get cancer and then you would know what it feels like, you are one STUPID PERSON to make such a comment.

holy molly... why are u wasting spit on this issue? the sum involved is 23K and the tax agency wont bulge. the woman needs the money for some kid camping trip. sounds like a nice execuse to use up your pension contribution before dying. to those suggesting alternative care, obviously, the lady isn't wealthy if her pension is a mere 23K. where would she get the funds to try alternative health care? her national insurance? we all know insurance doesn't cover experiemental or unproved or uncertified medical procedures. one way or another, the lady is in a precarious position. left to me, the tax office would have resolved this issue quietly in an administrative manner. negative press does them no good and once litigations begin and are won by the plantiff (cancer lady), it will open the floodgate of early pension cash-iners. already, the cancer lady is winning.

eddie123:

Where would she get the funds to try alternative health care?

It is quite inexpensive for example to quit sugar and some other carbs and artificial sweeteners (cancer cells feed on them), take vitamin C in proper amount (no body cells can be healthy without it), do exercising that will fill her body with oxigen (in the presence of oxigen, cancer cells are unable to survive) - these are only a few things ANY cancer patient at ANY stage could do to get immediate good results.

And there are some other such basic data about this disease that most of the doctors don't tell about...

And you have a very sound point on how Skatteverket should handle the matter.

Sherian Elizabeth:

I don't hope you get cancer, because I know how it is, I had it - if you would just read what a person has written, before spitting on her and wish her bad...

I am sorry, If I hurt the feelings of some people - I know that being optimistic and positive is not Sweden's cup of tea, and as I read comments of various topics, especially not of TL readers... But there are many people like me in other places of the world, and this is how we live, I mean LIVE, and happy people live longer... If something is successful to keep a person surviving, I am not sorry about using it. And if someone doesn't want it - cool. We are not the same, some people are more positive, some are less, that's the way it is.

As for sugar, Raiha: you seem to be very young and you don't need to think about your own health issues, which is good. Just keep on worshiping Sugar God, as you do it here in Sweden, with the incredible amount of godis, ice cream, and sugar in practically ANY food (bread, sausage, kötbullar, bacon - yuckkkk!!!!) - and I hope for you that you don't get to a point in your life when you will have to find out for yourself how sugar is causing cancer...

Well, again, maybe my optimism is way too offensive, but I rather be in Disneyland than in a hospice or cemetery...

So I have a question, guys: if this lady was reading this article and the comments, how would YOU help her? Would you say: "oh, poor girl, how I feel with you, oh my, oh my, oh my, oh you gonna die, and your poor children, oh, oh,!", Or would you start collect money for her? Would you get involved in her court case and see what can be done about it so that she can get her money? Would you give her some tips as to how to ease her condition? Or what would you DO that would HELP this woman?

It is very easy to jump on someone who is ready to offer WORKABLE SOLUTIONS, and just go nyah-nyah-nyah, but WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO HELP THIS WOMAN?

(If you think HELP is possible at all, for regarding cancer, it is a widely spread opinion in the society that practically nothing can be done about it, when it comes, it comes, and you are toast...)

Andrea, I can guarantee that I am older and (sadly) wiser, as well as more literate (in English at least) than you are. I happen to agree that sugar is a modern day evil. It is banned in my house. We also eat organic food and exercise regularly and believe in the power of positive thought. My point is that you are preaching your own beliefs to the point of ridiculousness. Giving up sugar now, at this stage, WILL NOT CURE HER CANCER.

What would I say to this woman? I would say "do what is best for you and your children" and I would support her in that. It's called respect for personal choices. I would not try to push my own agenda on her or criticise her for living differently.

Darling, you are the one who comes off as a Babe in the Woods.

If Swedish citizens want to allow those with terminal illnesses to access their pension savings early, the law should be changed rather than demanding that Skatteverket make exceptions to the existing law. Of course, pension contributions would need to be increased to cover the additional expenses, but maybe Swedish citizens would be willing to pay a bit more.

If Skatteverket makes an exception in this case, others in similar situations will demand early pension payments. Dealing with such requests would drain resources needed for normal operations. Bureaucracies need standard procedures that all their employees can follow to the best of their abilities, so making exceptions just isn't the best solution.

Raiha,

I am always ready to learn from people who are wiser than me! Maybe there will come a time once when you can indeed teach me something. Till then, just be happy, if your thought and attitude of "I am wiser than you, naive little girl" makes you feel happier...

But I am glad that we agree on that sugar is sh*t.

"I would not try to push my own agenda on her or criticise her for living differently" - good for respecting her! The only, slight, tiny little difference is about LIVING or DYING... Well, of course you can say that you don't care which one she chooses, you respect either, it's not of your business...

But I like to see my fellows to be ALIVE, so I leave this topic now and go back to the Happy, Innocent and Naive Woods of Disneyland that naysayers hate and where people do appreciate the efforts to help each other to SURVIVE and LIVE.

For me and many others (regardless of nationality) naively stick to a famous line by one of the greatest Hungarian poets Endre Ady:

"LIFE is living and wants to live" (or another translation: "LIFE is alive and wants to live").

Peace...

@AndreaGerak

You seem to be one of those fake medical experts who claim to cure uncurables. Less sugar, more vitamin, more oxygen and exercise seems to be some kind of cure-all-types-of-cancer formula.

I am no cancer expert. Infact I have too little knowledge about cancer but the money that lady is asking for is hers. All she is asking for is to get the money earlier.

I dont konw about your family. You said that you recovered from cancer. It would have been good to know about your opinion if you were in the similar situations - about to die but unable to spend some good time with your kids.

Person making these kinds of decisions should get some life...he/she must have a f*ck*ed up life.

Here's the deal:

Some Cancer is a recoverable where it can go into remission, and it is a very well known that a good solid belirf in survival will aid you in that survival rate, as far as @Andrea has stated this is a true statement

HOWEVER...

Not all types of cancer are recoverabe and will not likely go into remission if the cancer has has taken over too much of the wrong types of tissues in the body, it then become a Terminal Cancer. This doesn't mean %100 of the time ot kills the patients right off, but rather the Cancer will grow and destroy tissue until the body stops being unable to function.

Now I say not LIKELY, remission CAN happen in very rare cases, and a person becomes a survivor of a termal cancer. The fact that less than survival rare is decidedly a reason that being a survivor is unique enough - But the rare varies depending on the type of cancer.

Here's a real and absolute fact to consider;

- 49 percent, or about half, of people diagnosed with early-stage lung cancer live for at least five years after diagnosis. The five-year survival rate for people diagnosed with lung cancer that has spread (metastasized) to other areas of the body is 3 percent.

So, one can say Lung Cancer has a 50/50 survival rate at early-stage, but a terminal likelyhood if it metastasized, it CAN be longer but at a 3% chance it likely not.

The facts we get from the article are:

1) We do not know what kind of cancer the woman has.

2) We know that within 5 years she is expected to die frim it.

We can therefor surmise whatever cancer she has VERY VERY low survivability rate. Using the 3% example above.. for every 100 people who have that type of cancer 3 of them will live longer than 5 years. Having a highly optimistic outlook on your chance of survival MAY help but statically it's not going to matter. With what we know it isn't likely breast cancer.

@Andrea has a right to be happy with survival depending on the type (some types are higher chance than others, breast cancer is a 82% survival rate, so survival is a pretty good chance, but still a reason to be happy you aren't dead from it).

Andrea, I am so shocked that the first comment on this poor lady with cancer, had to be from you, so negative and devoid of compassion. It honestly bought tears to my eyes that someone can be so heartless. i do not wish you any bad, my concern is how we as a society have dropped to such a low level that you think that your comments are acceptable.

I am also heartened that many other comments are filled with compasion, i would be happy to donate to a fund that would allow this lady to take her children on 1 last holiday. If anyone knows of any, please PM me.

@Andrea, it is not your general subject matter which is a problem. It is your condescending, smug, self-righteous, know-it-all tone which comes across repeatedly. Passion is acceptable, a good thing, but don't kid yourself that "passion" is all that is behind your ungracious and callous remarks. You approach this topic with a religiosity that is better described as fanaticism--devoid of reasonable caution and self restraint that ought to come with a natural and logical reasoning that you might actually not know all the facts. You hold yourself up as a shining example of cancer survival, use sweeping statements and condemn others, laying blame on them for making choices you disapprove of, when you actually know nothing about their lives in detail. You can live in you delusion that all this bad reaction to your comments is just a clash with your "happy" state of mind all you want, but you overstep your bounds and upset people not because you are exuberating happiness and positive energy, but rather judgmental haughtiness and negativity.

This is not a malediction, but you should know that "pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

Wow, wow, wow, what an attention I got...! So I should better use it, to make you right in that I like to be right... :o)

While you guys are spitting on me, somebody phoned me as a result of this discussion and told me about a friend who has healed himself from pancreatic cancer (which is one of the worst ones, with hardly any survival rates), by using a very simple method that cost NO ANY MONEY AT ALL...

...and what I have mentioned here, just to make you even more right in that I like to be right...

And if you want to keep spitting, why don't you come over to my blog where you will find much more things you can surely frown upon and disagree with, for example I am bold enough to call Almighty Cancerfonden a FRAUD: http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/stuckinstockholm/2010/04/09/cancer-research-forward-or-backward

And while you keep spitting, I am connecting all those people who turned to me in messages looking for WORKABLE ways to cure their cancers because chemo didn't help them, to the doctor who did help me...

Bye

@Andrea: You may want to look up "self-righteous" in the dictionary -- it doesn't really have to do with wanting to be right.

You may be right to expose mainstream medical treatments for being ineffective and Cancer Fonden as being a fraud, etc. As I mentioned, it is not your subject matter, but your tone, which is a problem. Don't kid yourself that it is your message -- it is your style which sucks.

@Andrea, one final comment -- I find it terribly ironic that in your post (comment #22) you say the following:

"Well, again, maybe my optimism is way too offensive, but I rather be in Disneyland than in a hospice or cemetery..."

And isn't that what this woman wants, too? Except that she can't afford disneyland, and would prefer rather a tent in the woods? But yet you refuse to see eye to eye with her. The irony.