May 26, 2012
Published: 19 Dec 10 10:11 CET | Double click on a word to get a translation
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/30946/20101219/
As WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange vows to fight against his extradition to Sweden, police reports have shed more light on the women and the events at the centre of the sex crime allegations against him.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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The whole legal case is a fallacy.
Its purpose is to distract the public from what is really going in the "real" world. Also, I guess Sweden is gaining some publicity from it.
Enjoy the fake show...
The only difference is that in Millenium, the good guys win.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden
Anyway, however one looks at it, this affair is a charade. Assange's reputation is forever destroyed no matter what the court settles upon. Especially because of the Interpol Red Alert and the rabid way with which the Swedish prosecution is going after him (to make up for their embarrassing flip-flop). Anything less than a conviction would be disastrous for the image Sweden...so they'll throw everything in the book and a whole lot of resources at this case.
This is doing a great disservice for victims of rape by conflating a heinous crime with sexual antics. Who goes to the cops because they're worried about the risk of HIV during consensual sex? The stupidity of these girls is astounding to say the least. And now - predictably - the case has been hijacked by those who have an ax to grind with Wikileaks.
I am inclined to say it is a combination of both.
At a minimum he should apologize to these women for his crude behavior, instead of using his legal team to attack and smear them.
That the media gives to much attention to such a self-infatuated little weasel like Assange is absurd.
That Swedish Laws accommodate vengeful feminists in the way they do is absurd.
And the way Swedish Authorities are applying those laws in this case are absurd.
It's a circus from start to finish.
The way I see it, none of the women flat out refused to have unprotected sex with Assange. If he managed to talk them into it bareback, that makes it their business.
I'm astounded by the way you present Assange as a narcissist with a massive ego, and gloss over the fact that it is most likely that that very characteristic that made the women have sex with him. Should we then also make the women look bad for being attractive to a narcissist with a massive ego? You don't go around crusading for freedom of speech and go against the world's superpowers unless you actually have a high opinion of yourself.
Either there was coercion and the charges can stick, or there wasn't and this is a political circus to slander and incapacitate Assange. According to every report I have seen so far, there was no coercion.
I agree, it's not a case of "perfect rape"...meaning, he wasn't some stranger lurking in the bushes outside their homes. However, we do get this from the report:
"She told police that she had tried a number of times to reach for a condom but Assange had stopped her by holding her arms and pinning her legs. The statement records Miss A describing how Assange then released her arms and agreed to use a condom, but she told the police that at some stage Assange had "done something" with the condom that resulted in it becoming ripped, and ejaculated without withdrawing."
And this:
"She had awoken to find him having sex with her, she said, but when she asked whether he was wearing a condom he said no."
The second woman, it should be noted, has never had unprotected sex. Her ex boyfriend of over 2 years is on record supporting this. You say these women did not flat out refuse to have sex with him, but they only consented to protected sex. Not unprotected sex. If this were your sister, how would you feel?
@eddie123
That is exactly what bothers me most about this. Whether you agree with his actions vis-a-vi wikileaks, it does not entitle him to a free-pass to do as he wishes. He has, time and time again, maintained an air of secrecy about all of his dealings while declaring himself emperor of transparency. To me, it comes off hypocritical. And I'm astounded that so many people are attacking these women's motives without the slightest bit of evidence. It simply reeks of anti-americanism dressed up in a so-called CIA conspiracy to "honeytrap" a poor, innocent fellow. There's at least evidence of Assange violating these women...facts...there is zero to support any kind of conspiracy.
This two women are complete idiots! a disgrace to our gender, and a real disgrace to women that have actually been raped, as this settles back to the prejudicies against the victims in future rape cases that are REAL.
Many of you have smartly pointed out the flaws of these cases, but I can't resist re writing some of them.
First, a question: Isn't having sex without a condom a crime in Sweden IF and only IF the person who refuses have HIV and knows about it?
Second, they could have said no...period.
Third, had sex with her while she was sleeping: she must have a very strong sleep, to not wake up and say stop it if she doesn't want to. and def. this explains to me why Swedes are so dull when it comes to sex...
Fourth, it is quite clear that if they came to worry when they met, this is revenge. Feeling cheated, not special and so.
Please it is just ridiculous, if you can't handle it don't play liberal girl.
And just to wrap this: devoted christian with one night stands....mmmm, someone is going straight to hell.
@locaxy: Highly unlikely you are going to see the sensitive reports as a member of the public - the prosecution and defence have those and details will be reported as and when the case is heard in court. So how you have formed such a fast opinion on this...I can only wonder.
Regardless of what 'you' class as coercion.
@BYDAND: are you serious? ...Can a someone be raped whilst asleep, google it.
@crunchy2k: Here is your simple guide, if you meet a girl or guy (I don't know your proclivities) and end up about to have sex or even having sex and the other person says stop - you stop. Simple. You might not like it, you might not want to, but stop. Simple.
WikiLeaks is doing good work by exposing some Governmental, diplomatic and other services competence.
It is just a shame Julian Assuage is an idiot.
However his actions do not dilute the work WikiLeaks as a whole has done - in my opinion.
There are others involved in running WikiLeaks - it does not need to be about one ego.
He should step down and focus on facing his accusers.
But if it is about his ego, then he will not.
Whats the difference between rape and seduction?
Answer: Salesmanship!
Now, while J.A might be a creep (as some suggest) in real life if he was able to convince these women (without threats or any violence) that he should slip it in without a raincoat... well, thats one smooth talking Sonofa.. and also puts him into the "salesman" and not "rapist" category.
No means no, how many times have we heard that? And I agree with it, respect your partner and if she says no - well, stop doing whatever she was objecting to. As far as I can tell, none of these ninnies said no.
She awoke and he was already in her having sex --- ok, I gotta ask the question, how f*ing big is this woman between her legs? And how deep does she sleep?
Inserting a little finger is enough to wake anybody... did he run across the room and do a 5 foot jump then expertly penetrate her that it was so sudden that she didnt wake till he was in?
It just does not make any sense.
If all the Swedish govt. wants to do is ask him a few questions, well, send someone over there... or do a video conference. YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHERE HE IS MORONS.
But thats not all the want to do, is it?
There are more people involved in WikiLeaks than Assange. It can and does operate without him.
You can argue that if the members who sort and collate the information remain unpublicised, then WikiLeaks is less vulnerable to attacks on.
Assange put himself in this situation and therefore brought his reputation into question.
If he stepped aside, then any fallout from his actions or lack of judgement cease to be connected with WikiLeaks.
But, then of course it would just be about rape - not freedom of information.
"....and falling asleep beside Assange. She had awoken to find him having sex with her, she said, but when she asked whether he was wearing a condom he said no. "According to her statement, she said: 'You better not have HIV' and he answered: 'Of course not,'...."
so she wakes up and finds out she is having sex and gets so upset that only asks if Julian has condom? wow! so she was so angry that only asked if Julian has HIV...!!! seems she refused to have have sex a lot!!
well anyway I admit putting your P**** in someone's P**** is very inappropriate if she is asleep and can't wake up by feeling it inside her....!! oh wait a minute! was she really asleep or.... in the same police report published by guardian:
"....They (assange's lawyers) also say that in a text message to a friend, she never suggested she had been raped and claimed only to have been "half asleep".
well that clears many things! at least now our mind can stop picturing it how it can be possible to have sex without waking up the partner! cuz the only sample in the world was just disqualified!
so she was "half asleep". so she was conscious? but a little bit tired? and was only worried if Julian has HIV (the same worry we all may have when having unprotected sex) but just let the sex go on (I would suggest only because she liked it) and several days later, when she found out about other partner of Assange, she filed the report to police? WoW! what a heinous rape! I would say re establish capital punishment as "Big Brother" would love it and just execute this mo***fu**** ba**** and let us all live in quiet and peace!
@eZee.se
Does it matter if she makes Tingstadstunneln look a tight squeeze or if he has a baby carrot and 2 peas?
The Justice system is not a drive-thru or convenience store - you go the authorities. They are not going to work around your busy sched. This guy is going to court for sure - if other women come forward and it looks like Assange has made a habit of this behaviour - will you still be so blasé?
Take a re-read of your post. Salesmanship?
You are not on the "unrepentant-sex-offenders" mailing list.
It is tragic that it has gone this far.
how can this guy be trusted one who goes around having sex all round with different women that doesnt sound RESPONSIBLE TO ME at 39 år ?.FOOL AT 40 (almost 40)am waiting to see how his 007 jamesbond or say world hero he is trying to be will play out for him .
“Miss A and Assange had sex several times at her one-room Stockholm flat”, (according to Swedish tabloids, giving details that were blocked out of the police transcript.)
There’s the factor of psychological improbability here: that after these “several times” these several rounds of sex during those few days, just this one time, in the heat of passion it’s reported that it was no longer “same procedure as last year James” but that on this one occasion (it’s alleged ) he held her down “in a sexual manner.”
In an unlawful manner ??
“Representatives of Swedish prosecutors told the British hearing that "unlawful coercion" occurred on August 14 because “Assange held down Miss A in a sexual manner.” Held her down in a sexual manner? Could he have held her down in a non-sexual manner? Sounds like Miss A was making some resistance. Her first Intifada. Still, so imprecise. But details will come later. It will forever be Word against Word. Old Testament vs. “New Testament.” Bible or Qur’an on which book will they lay a hand and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
He held her “down.”
Jes, what do we have here, if not the illegal missionary position?
happens.
X and Y comparing notes: He proposed to you did he? He proposed to me too - the lying thieving bastard.
Should it be a public hearing the courtroom will be packed full, with the world’s press and cameras flashing away. In that case, I wonder whether there will be any sitting room for local indigenes. It would have to be a big court room – with live TV cameras, keeping those interested informed by the minute as legal procedures try to establish the truth as to what actually happened, your Honor.
Assange may emerge as a sympathetic character and could have sung one of the love ladies this line from Leonard Cohen’s “Master Song”
“ I think you’re playing far too rough
For a Lady who’s been to the moon…”
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=...n+:+Master+song
Or perhaps a few lines from " The Stranger Song"
Of course when it’s a black man that’s been falsely accused, disco evening, dancing all night, some romantic moves back at her flat, cold December snow outside, warm fireplace, some wine, some reggae music, everyone’s had a good time; in the morning, a little more sober, she leaves him sleeping in her bed and returns with the police to identify “the beast” On the day of the trial she wears a red miniskirt, which the whole world can see through and with suppressed/ repressed desire the male judges cast an evil eye at the triangle of her floral frock and come to the subconscious conclusion: “ the nigger must have done it”
This case could surpass the OJ Simpson trial – and could be good for business - Swedish business and tourism.
When the whole world’s attention is riveted on the rape trial that’s when some pretty important events will be taking place someplace else in the world, and will be overshadowed by this rape case – if it takes place….. that’s what always happens…..
I would give you a proper reply... if your post made a little more sense so I could understand it and know where to begin.
Nobody is asking you to trust him.
The follies which a man regrets most, in his life, are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity.
- Helen Rowland
JA is in deep sh!t
I guess his nomadic/fugitive lifestyle makes him no good candidate for a fixed relationship that these bimbos were expecting. they (the wannabes) should have known better.
@leiiel
here we go..mr tax payer.
It seems that allegation from both parties are very strange.
For Assange, it is shocking that his legal team could access to SMS of the girls, because that is something only can be obtained by police. Further more, if what he claims about SMS, are true, refusing to go back to Sweden does not seems to be a best way to prove his innocence. Instead, he could ask to sign an agreement that he would not be sent to USA before he submit himself go to Sweden, especially after Carl Bildt claim it is rubbish saying that Swedish authority could help USA to extradite him.
The Swedish authority is even more strange. What is the reason they oppose a bail of L.200k? That makes a saying of persecution very reasonable. Also, the way that the police material leaks to Media, is not a sign that they have decent legal system. Even if it is a nasty legal system that help USA persecute political dissenter, at least it is by no mean a incorruptive legal system that could avoid wrong innocent civilians.It is at least a scandal that implies justices is not guaranteed in their system.
The Assange's lawyers could use this leak of police material as an argument to prove the legal system in Sweden is very corruptive so that Assange should not be extradited.
I don't think it is wise for Assange to claim a spear campaign without evidence In instead, they should just present the fact, and let the facts to hint, so no one could seize their own flaws.
http://www.eatthestate.org/top-10-economic-stories-of-2010/
"In 2008 and 2009, the Federal Reserve functioned as the central bank for the entire world. Documents pried from the Federal Reserve in November show that dozens of foreign banks and an astonishing number of foreign governments lined up to get handouts from the Fed, who kept its client list a deeply protected secret. The recipients included most of Europe's major banks: Barclay's Bank, Bank of Scotland, RBS, Societe Generale, Dresdner Bank, Bayerische Landesbank, and Dexia. Also on the list are the central banks of Australia, Denmark, Mexico, Norway, Switzerland, SWEDEN, South Korea, Britain, and Japan."
@sgt_doom can you please illuminate us as to your point? I think I'm not steeped enough in conspiracy theory basics to grok what it is your getting at...and you've posted the same thing several times now, so I assume you must have some urgent point to make.
Obviously.......doesn't require any theory, simple comprehension of simple facts.
Which is beyond the scope of some people, and that would include yourself.
Religious nuts and conspiracy theorists are the only people I know who take such great pride in not requiring any facts to support their beliefs. In fact, it's a badge of honor to wholly believe in the most absurd things.
Apparently, the first prosecutor decided that the state did not have a case against Assange, and so dropped it. Then, someone appealed that decision to another prosecutorial office.
So, it appears that if a local prosecutor decides to drop a case, someone has a right to appeal that decision. Is this so? If it is so, who has this right?
Specifically, the person referred to in the article as, "Defence lawyer Claes Borgström," seems to have come out of nowhere. Under what authority did he get involved?
IF JA did "rape" these girls they would have reported the rape already from the beginning...separately. How "rape" is defined is of course different from one country to another but I expect (I don't know for sure) Sweden's law on sex crime to be similar to the rest of the civilized world. In general there must be witnesses (for each incident) as well as physical evidence and some other things.
Another weird issue is why did they put him on Interpol arrest warrant for just "questioning"?
Many journalists have written already that within the EU is perfectly OK for authorities from different countries to talk to each other via vdo conference. Why not in this case? This man is not charged yet. It should be easy and inexpensive to set up a vdo conference for both parties. Or simply ask him to go to the Swedish Embassy in London which is of course a Swedish territory. Given all this and that there there has been irrational waste of money for this (looks more like a manhunt rather than trying to have someone for questionings)...that is why more people in the world tend to believe Assange more than they believe the girls (+ Swedish legal team).
So, which side do you think the British court will believe in...the 9 million Swedes or the 500 million internet population?
PS: In fact Assange does not have to worry about extradiation from Sweden to the US "if" Sweden will play fair under its own rule of law. Even if he is found guilty he, according to the current Swedish law, would probably have to pay fines and/or compensation to the girls or in the worst case a week in jail. Then he would be a free man and he has every right to ask for asylum in Sweden because he can state that he fears for his life (we all have heard that some politicians have threatened to execute him for the leaking). But it seems that Assange does not trust that Sweden would stick to its well-known reputation of being fair and honest, therefore he does not think that he would be given asylum in Sweden. As a result he is trying very hard not to be extradited to Sweden to receive unfair/injustice treatments (according to him and his legal team).
If you think the difference between rape and seduction is simply salesmanship and you are comfortable enough to voice that opinion publicly, then - I'm not very interested to hear a response from you.
Great idea and practical too. She should sign a watertight legal document that she's surrendering the golden gated city of her own free will – and don't forget that for each and every time the contract has to be renewed, preferably with two witnesses ( She also could say that you forced her to sign it).
It's also possible that she suffers a change of mind after signing the document and upon catching sight of Mr. Johnson.
It's even been known for the ofay to say, “ He said that if I didn't keep my mouth shut and open my legs he would kill me.!” - in front of a sympathetic jury , that's not composed of your peers either.
Does she get compensation? You bet she does.
There are many brothers doing time for making such silly mistakes...
Coming to think of it the Shia Islam idea of Muta ( temporary marriage) is not such a bad idea.
It should be workable in Sweden as an alternative to serial monogamy...
The Creepy, Lovesick Emails of Julian Assange - from Gawker
@bob3000
The douche-chills reading those emails gave me just made my day. I only wish more information would *leak* about this very secretive Julian Assange, the holy gatekeeper in charge of deciding what the world should know (and what they shouldn't).
and their ain't no such thing as "secret" information
Apparently the bint from Enköping is a 10 pinter, so she ought to be grateful for what she got "sayeth the Lord"
When someone has consensual sex with another person repeatedly over the course of a week, then releases multiple tweets to the public on the internet about it, and sends SMS texts to friends bragging about it (discreet much?), and throws a party in the honor of the alleged rapist the day after the alleged incident, but doesn't get called back and then finds out there is someone else, and then decides to file some charge of sexual coercion/rape while trying to sell their story to the tabloid Expressen, and then tries to delete the tweets from her website bragging about the encounter, which website also includes a 7-step program for how to "get revenge on a cheating boyfriend using the legal process" that was also deleted, I'd say that the person is making it up. But that's just me.
What about the Nobel Prize winning Obama, or his side-kick Joe Biden?
And then there is the Swedish government, but who on the world scene cares about that institution anyway?
I don't find these emails particulary 'creepy'. Poetic and slightly obsessive maybe, but certainly not stalker like, sexually explicit, or even offensive. And does it not strike you as a glaring omission that this girls replies were 'lost' or 'deleted'. Half a story is NOT a story. As to how he found her phone number: We have this thing in Australia called a 'phone book'. It's a useful tome that lists everyone in the country who has a phone. If her parents had a 'silent' number, then yes, how he obtained the number would be an issue.
Basically a total bullshit article (gawker), as is this one here. I see no new evidence. This stuff has been freely available to the rest of the world for weeks. What is distressing, is the level of ignorance displayed by some posters who obviously don't believe in reading widely or thinking for themselves.
These two colluding groupies have shat on the suffering of millions of women around the world who have been subjected to actual, REAL rape. And to the women supporting their accusations, claiming that giving consent does not preclude withdrawing consent at any time. Utterly true. Yet it is widely reported that while these 'victims' have doubts about what happened to them, never once ever did they use the words "NO' or "STOP'.
Statistics show that 90% of Australian refugee women were victims of rape. Compare their stories to these two Swedish bitches who have obviously sought councelling for the horrific, psychologically damaging, life-changing event that happened to them. Or not.
I had asked earlier, if it transpires that this is not an isolated incident or behaviour for Assange, would those posting still be so blasé.
Then lo and behold, info starts coming out.
Perhaps you are attracted to obsessive men and you like them to hunt, email and call you - then I'm sure you long for that kind of correspondence.
Obviously, people and their motivations are complex - that includes both victims and attackers.
The attackers either belittle the accusations, if they even acknowledge them. Anyone who falsely claims victimhood and then is discovered to be a fraud - injures the genuine victims of crime, not just rape.
Until the COURT hears all the FACTS - you simply cannot pass judgement based upon the publicly available information (not Facts). Maybe the girls did say STOP, NO - maybe they feared assault - we do not know what happened when the alleged rapes took place - only those present do. There are a lot of complex factors involved - often people are raped by people they know and this affects the aftermath, the confusion, guilt shame, etc.
Unless you are saying you were actually there? Were you standing in the corner watching? Were you a witness?
It is disappointing, but not surprising, that a vocal part of the males on this posting, feel that the women were (i) witches, (ii) cock teasers, (iii) sirens, (iv) CIA agents (v) lesbians, (vi) men haters, etc. etc.
But the real shocker is the rabid condemnation from the self-professing 'feminists' - talk about scarlet letters, they would surely make pious religious women blush. You seem to fall into this group.
Are you saying that if someone is raped (man or woman) depending upon the country they come from, then it affects the sympathy that should be felt for them or indeed the validity of whether or not they were raped? You seem to have a very simplistic view of the world. I do not follow your logic or your reasoning.
Well the Sheep can still believe in magic
Rove's hand seen in Julian Assange prosecution, sources allege
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/rove-co...julian-assange/
#60 (bob3000)
Actually it sometimes can make sense that the difference between rape and seduction IS simply salesmanship (because everything has to do with how the lady feels afterwards). OK I can imagine that there are cases (e.g. violent such) where this is not so.
#62 (bob3000)
Regarding the "Creepy, Lovesick Emails of Julian Assange", they are not THAT creepy, and besides I think that the woman in that story (nicknamed "Elizabeth") is after her 15 minutes of fame.
Re: you comment on #60 - wow...
Re:#62
The title "Creepy, Lovesick Emails of Julian Assange" - is Gawker's title, nothing to do with me.
As I said, I had asked earlier, if it transpires that this is not an isolated incident or behaviour for Assange, would those posting still be so blasé.
Then lo and behold, info starts coming out.
In my opinion he does seem like creepy nonce. Regardless of her intentions, and if he wrote them.
People seem very quick to excuse his actions on the basis that the women must have ulterior motives. 3 different women and counting, 1 criminally unlucky geek with penis centric social problems. Eventually you might have to accept, it is not all of them, but him.
It is possible to separate what WikiLeaks is doing from the disappointing person involved with it.
Their faction of the Social-Democratic party lost the vote in Parliament.to extend the definition of "rape" to mean whatever the Prosecutors want to say it is. So now they want to do by the secret court system and the Tabloids. Perfectly normal politics.
They don't need to CIA to tell them how to lock up innocent men - they're very good at it themselves. And they say so openly.
Just another wierdo Feminist witchhunt against an innocent man. Another day at the office for both of them.
And Ms A has to be the only woman in history to accuse a man of sexual harrassment because he DIDN'T look at her. Then accuse him again beause he apologised.
Both of these provisions are obnoxious affronts to basic due process. It is no accident that they are found only in allegations of sexual assault/rape. They completely insulate the accuser from any ACCOUNTABILITY. These provisions are not unique to Sweden. Most western countries have accountability insulating provisions.
It is infuriating to me that this can happen to any man. Any man can be accused in this way. As this case shows, the provisions can be used in bad faith by spurned lovers to settle score by petty revenge or worse, as in the JA case, as a weapon against political adversaries.
If it can happen to Assange, it can happen to any man without high social status. It's an affront to basic justice and a form or REPRESSION. (that's right repression!) This abhorrent practice should be thrown out and the radicals promoting it should be revealed for the gender preference activists they are.
JAYDE. What are you referring to when you say that Ms. A accused some man of harassment for NOT looking at her. Is that true?
Did you know that she refers to herself as a lesbian on her own website which includes pics of her girlfriend "Petra"?