Sweden looks to combat Islamophobia

I dont even want to think of what sort of responses will be made here, especially by posters not even living or having an understanding of the frame work in sweden.

Nice initiative Mr. Ullenhag and I also wish your predecessor had taken the same measures to combat Jewishphobia. I think it is a good time for the good Muslims to come out and take to the streets to speak out against those criminals whose sole intention is to hijack their religion. It my book if you don't speak out it implies one thing and that is support for the criminal(s) who wanted to perpetrate the crime.

This is a good idea, but Rishonim is also right.

The thing that would make probably the biggest difference in how muslims are perceived in the world, would be if the peaceful majority of them (muslims)spoke out against the extremists. They should be out there at every opportunity protesting against the extremists, working to further the rights of women and showing all the ways that Islam is a religion of peace.

Unfortunately, that doesn't happen very often, or if it does, it isn't covered by media outlets. The rest of the world is left seeing the negative aspects of it.

"With his action he denies all the good he has received from Sweden.Sweden which took us in and has given us what no Arab or Muslim country has given us.We distance ourselves from him, and we have" The father-in-law of the suicide bomber.

Listen to these words....and encourage Islamic groups to also acknowledge that Swedish society has given in this manner. The freedoms and lifestyle so willingly accepted also bring with them responsibilities - and it doesn't matter if you are Muslim, Christian, Jew, Roma, atheist, Swede or whatever. Your acceptance of these freedoms is also your acceptance of the responsibilities.

There is 'jihadophobia' but Islam does itself no favours with it's SILENCE about those things which are specifically condemned by the Prophet - and yet done in the name of Islam.

But, hey, maybe the minister should also look at 'kirka-phobia' as the Christian churches also seem to be suffering rejection by majorities in the society.

That is the problem, we do not know, who is the bad. We do know that most moslems are not terrorists but we do not know either who is one. How many moslems do you know well? I do not know any. I am not avoiding them but I never have had the opportunity to know one well. I think that is the main problem and I have no idea what the solution might be. Besides that, I have no idea why anyone would like to immigrate to Sweden...most swedes would like to get out and away from the miserable climate.

It's true that not all muslims are terrorists. But which ones are peaceful and benign? But which ones are terrorists ? And which ones are jihadis who seek to destroy without resorting to explosions, using 'tolerance', 'multiculturalism' , and gullible do-gooders as shields they can hide behind ? which ones are peaceful and benign?

It was a mistake to open the Pandora's box in the first place. But the government insisted upon doing it. And now there is a big problem. Attempts to vilify rightly concerned people as irrationally phobic only exacerbate the problem.

The most effective way to combat Islamophobia would be for Muslims to publicly protest against each Islamist terrorist act with the same intensity that they protest against cartoons or other perceived slights. Exploding a bomb against innocent civilians is how many times worse than a cartoon, - at least to us -, yet it's the latter that by accounts causes the outrage?

While "99.9% of Swedish Muslims" may not be listed as "violent extremists", there needs to be a culture of openness, and solidarity with non-Muslims, amongst *all* of them to root out extremism.

It's important to note that much of contemporary Islamic fundamentalism/conservatism is pushed from outside, namely by Saudi Wahhabism or Iran. Both are opposed to the West's interests in secularism and tolerance, so it will be impossible to address Islamophobia while they enjoy any level of support, or official acceptance, in Sweden. The situation is the same with any closed, dogmatic ideology that seeks to impose itself. They don't want what you want, no matter what concessions you make. The onus now is on Muslims to break down perceptions and show that they're *all* a part of the communal good as every other group.

A "phobia" is defined as, "an irrational, intense and persistent fear of certain situations, activities, things, animals, or people." In my opinion, to be uneasy about Islam's motives is not "irrational."

People should be thoughtful of a population whos sole intent is to colonize us. If people from another culture are not intergrating but instead their numbers are multipilying then by definition they are colonizing. I have read the koran and it speaks nothing of peace.

To acknowledge what is stated in the koran is not at all 'phobic'. The inferior status and ill-will towards the 'infidel. is plainly stated in the koran. It's the denial of what is stated in their core belief system that is the problem. That sort of willful blindness is irresponsible. One cannot believe in equality and believe in the koran at the same time. They are mutually exclusive.

SWEDE'S LOOK TO FREE THEMSELVES FROM THE CRAP THEY ARE FED IN THE MSM.

Whilst some are busily media spun (What passes as most of our MSM news: deception, half-truths and or bare faced lies) into a frenzy of poor reasoning and monumental stupidity; perhaps we can break from the divide and conquer, pre-emptive programming/ consent, neuro-linguistics and or social engineering.

Empirically and statistically speaking, believe it or not; the greatest killer of human beings after natural causes is the state. Oh don't forget that there's a brown skin, yellow or perhaps an Indian; always some scapegoat or impressionable moron to take up some white nonsense mind bending programing about someone after your partner, job, impose their head scarf or pink underwear on you, absolute mind bending b**sh*t.

Sweden's never ending Suicide bombing media blitz (spin to programme consent). What about Israeli years of invaded territories in the Lebanon and Palestine and the near daily murders and violence, daily drone bombing of Afghan Pakistan border, Yemen, Nigeria, Congo and all the places the fat, rich self-styled elite are shafting, ruining, embezzling, bribing, and corrupting for profit? What about the tens of thousands injected daily with toxic medicine because the Gates foundation wants to depopulate the earth due to its affiliations with eugenics (genocide) projects? What about the health damaging toxic products from wondrous China, that no corporate and political coward has got the ba**s to say anything about as they have indebted the people and their children to work and wage slavery, let alone the inflated profits after decimating local farming, production, commerce and industry.

The truth about state, yours, ours practically all: The only organisation and or group that reserve the right to legally disempower and initiate violence against a people of a given region. Let us not forget the state educational pollution of our children's minds and futures. We can heap on top of this delightful cake of lies, global corporatism /lobby pollicises of international private-central banksters. Corporate rights over humans allowing, poisoning of our food, air, water, medicine and environment. All for the almighty psychopathy of infirm super self-styled elite rich that feel justified to treat 99% of the earth as disposable cattle. Frankly I don't give a crud whom likes, agrees, disagrees or is angered by what I say. I didn't make it up; it's all in black and white for anyone to read who has not had the ability to reason befuddled with shiny baubles, monetary slavery, false careers that we allow to define who we are and can drop you at the flip of a coin whilst demanding your ideas and loyalty, meism ego dualities, TV land important people and real life teli-rubbish. And the local can sensor my index and middle finger. Have the courage to print real, researched and informative news.

Kinda like snakes. A lot of people don't like them but they have their place in nature. Most are benign and perform useful functions.

But some of them are poisonous.

To be a peaceful muslim is to be one who is only sitting and waiting in pacifism for the correct time to act in violence when their numbers have grown enough. To be a peaceful muslim would be to deny the teacings of Koran. It is impossible to go 3 pages in the Koran without violence being mentioned. It frequently mentions especially torture and burning of the infedels(non-beleivers). Why are we being open minded to close minded people? In my opinion it is a very left-wing stance to be against Islam because Islam promotes everything that leftism is against. Islam promotes sexism, homophobia, racism, and is also against the rights of free thinking individuals. One thing that Islam does not promote is the right to religious freedom you can just look at what goes on in any Islamic country. Christian minorities are constantly being persecuted, tortured even sometimes raped. I have even seen videos where chritians have been put in a pit in Sudan and burned alive and when they try to get out of the pit they are then beaten with sticks while still on fire... Islam = facism

"There was a time I used to reject those who were not of my faith. Now my heart has grown capable of taking on many forms: a pasture for gazelles, a convent for Christians, a temple for idols, a Kaaba* for the pilgrim, a table for the Torah, a book of the Koran. My religion is love - whichever the route love's caravan shall take, that path shall be the path of my faith."

*The most sacred Muslim shrine, to be found in Mecca Muhyiddin Ibn 'Arabi (1165-1240)

In almost all 'scriptures' one can find violence, hatred. In almost all scriptures one can find peace, love. That which YOU seek is that which your mind will accept as perceived.

If you would understand the Koran, the Torah, the Gospels, understand the language of the culture at the time!

"Swedesmith - always, always love your input :) Do you blog them?

Not all Muslims are terrorists but most of the religious related terrorism in Europe has been carried out in the name of Islam by Muslims.

Islamists want Christians and Jews to accept a religion in Europe that has arguably no basis in either holy book and also brings a culture which is both alien and regressive in spite of the fact that it has finally taken Europe centuries to reach the point of human rights where we are now.

In every European countries there are problems with muslims. Is now time to accept the truth: They are not part of our colture, they dont respect our colture our style.

They tryed to conquer Europe with the arms but it didnt work and now there is a strategic plan to conquer the Europe using the demografic.

Stop to force peoples to accept who they dont want at their own home.

Stop to tell bullshit like they are a value becouse nowadays we are able to sum benefits and costs and the result is negative.

We wanna live in safe and peace, if they need help we are all disposed to give everything they need but in their own country not here.

We must start to think that If we need workers from abroad then they must be the closest to our culture.

Remeber that not every muslims in Sweden are terrorist but all terrorist in Sweden are muslims.

' Islamic fundamentalism is the main enemy of Democracy... '

Mario Vargas LLosa,

Nobel Prize.

That is very nice movement!

Islam means peace in Arabic.

Peace and terror or terrorist is opposite of each others.

Islam and Muslims rejects any act of terror and these guys who commit such a crime does not belong to Islam. They have some kidn of illness which comes from many things.to be Extremist and terrorists take so long and time for someone to become and it is has reason why a person become so extreme , We have these extremists in all religions.

The message of Islam is clear, it ask you for peace and calls that all human are born from one parents and it does not justify any terror act.

Do you guys know how many innocents Muslims were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan for what , HOw many innocents are being killing in Palestine these are the cause. We should stop invading countries and let others to live in peace.I have not seen anyone on this forum to condemn the invading of Muslims countries and killing them. Google it and see how many innocents were killed. These act creates hates and extremists.

We Muslims are also victim of these extremists who hijacked Islam and everyday killing more Muslims in Markets, Mosque. We want to fight these extremists but west should help us at first to leave Islamic countries alone.

We do not want a freedom if you gonna use B52 to bomb others. it make the matter worsts.

Why they keep covering the bad actions of muslims? Why they cover a group of people that only answer to the Koran? 99% of terrorists attacks are commited by muslims.

@Boyfriend. I don't see anyone invading Pakistan, yet every day some piece of filth blow up himself taking 20-100 with him. Everyday there is an explosion in Iraq and the suicide bomber is another Muslim. Stop blaming the world and start speaking out against the Islamist from within.

Terror suspect a 'normal Muslim': wife. How can he be a normal Muslim if he is going out there trying to kill as many as possible? The only way people will gain respect will be when they start calling a spade a spade and stop making excuses to justify the actions of those criminals

This helps put the entire 'Islamophobia' concept. in perspective:

http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=islamophobia&year_start=1500&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=3

What this suggests that 'Islamophobia' is a very recently contrived concept to be used as a weapon for the political purpose of shutting down debate. Fortunately, it is an utter failure in that regard.

Boyfriend - Another Muslim telling the same old lies. Islam does not mean peace in Arabic. It means submission. And as I have said before, some of us do not intend to submit!

Now, this made-up word "Islamophobia." It was invented about 30 years ago as a means of attacking the opponents of the Islamification of Europe and was copied from the older "Homophobia" - itself a nonsense word which means "an irrational fear of the same."

A phobia is a mental illness causing an irrational fear of something. We all know about arachnaphobia, for instance - but that is an example of a genuine phobia.

Islamophobia, on the other hand, does not exist, as fear of such a violent intolerant belief system as Islam cannot be described as anything but entirely rational and understandable - so "Sweden" is wasting its time trying to counter it.

It would make far more sense to start deporting the followers of this violent, intolerant belief system before the next one blows himself up or the next Swedish girl is gang-raped.

I suppose old Winston Churchill was guilty of Naziphobia when he warned about Hitler in the 30s. Well, wasn't he?

Islam is experiencing 'growing pains'... and they need to 'grow up' - already!

The sooner the better.

.sigh.

I don't know why I am so intrigued by this whole Islam issue. Perhaps it is because I am so internally conflicted. I always have strived to not be predjuced against a person due to superficial things such as religion, skin color, sexual preference, etc. I have always tried to look for the good in people and most often find it. While I know that there are some truly evil people, a great majority of the people that I have met are good. And, as a member of the Christian faith (albeit a poor example, I freely admit) I am commissioned to love my neighbor.

But what if my neighbor hates me and wants to kill me because of my religion or nationality? I know many terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity and I am aware of the some of the atrocites done by the American government and even the Swedish government. But that does not make all Christians or Americans or Swedes bad. That does not justify strapping a bomb to yourself and killing a bunch of people who are just out shopping.

I really have a hard time with this issue.

@ Arturio, "strategic plan to conquer the Europe"

yeh, selling kebab, driving taxis, cleaning buildings and roads, distributing news papers. Definitely looks like a strategic plan ;)

@Dave N

Islam is derived from the Arabic root "Salema" which means "Peace" purity, also submission and obedience. Islam means also submission to the will of God. other religions are named after a Tribe or persons.

So one word can mean many things .

I dont know about Churchil if he wanted to protected the Jews then he would not ship them to middle east. Again it was Muslims who welcomed the Jews. But see what these Jews in Israeli are doing with them.

While not Swedish, I am an EU resident.

Is it Islamophobia when they wish to kill you?

@Tom Dundee Welcome to European union!

They kill more Muslims than non, Stockholm has many immigrants they also walk on the busy markets, These brain washed guys has no religion.

These bombers or criminals does not represent Islam or Muslims. they are individual or a group. Their action is against Islam and we Muslim condemn these act.

Someone should inform Ullenhag that the only way to "combat" islamophobia is if it comes from muslims themselves. To date Swedish muslims have not demonstrated any discernible concern over islamo-fascism. They need to do so. Swedish muslims must swear off "taqiyya". If not, this whole "combat" will be yet another trojan horse for muslim triumphalism. Muslims also need to accept that sharia law may form the basis of law in the despicable tyrannies of their countries, but the bible forms the basis of law in ours. If not, Sweden's decline will be irreversible as allah's avengers push to turn Sweden into a Nordic kaliphate. Also, the religion of perpetual outrage needs to accept our cultural and behavioral norms, not we theirs. Most of the chnage need to come from them not us! I await with great curiosity Ullenhag's next step.

A significant minority in the muslim community will kill a non-muslim if given the chance, the remaining percentage live in a state of denial.

They give all forms of excuses for their barbaric actions, whining like little children about how Israel is oppressing the Palestinians.

I speak from experience as someone who has witnessed the brutality of Islam perpetuated by my very colleagues in university. We were supposed to be friends but they turned on us and brutalized us for merely exercising our fundamental human right of association.

Last time I checked Islamophobia hasn't been trying to kill people. However, members of Islam have. Perhaps we should be combating Islamic extremists instead. As mentioned, this has to come from Muslims first and foremost. We see how they can turn out in droves when they want to protest against a political party that they don't like. However, we have yet to see them turning out to protest against the violence that has become associated with their religion. Anyone wonder why that is???

Furthermore, when the head of the largest Muslim organization has a daughter and son-in-law who are 'alleged' terrorists themselves, I don't think Islamophobia is Sweden's biggest problem. Sweden has done enough self-criticism and self-analysis. It's probably time for Islam to try it out.

I miss the comments of a lot of you, specially nemesis, where are you guys???

I know is not such a bug deal of an article but hey...

Good move by Eric Ullenhag........seems most comments are related and perhaps missed few important facts ....let me note,

1) Jihad means not killing of innocent people (feeding milk by a mother or cooking food in a nuclear family in also kind of jihad for a mother and it technically denotes as strive to struggle)

2) any muslim kills an innocent men considered as he kills the entire mankind

3) any Muslim doesn't believe Jesus Christ (may peace be upon him) is not a Muslim

4) brother and neighborhood in Islam consist of 40 houses north,east,south,west of a Muslim house

5) suicide is prohibited in Islam and carries a severe penalty upon resurrection

6) all Swedish Muslims have a right to defend Sweden against all kinds of terrorism in Sweden (together with native residents)

7) media is another reason seeding unrest among people by double standards

8) any Muslim who is away from the 5 pillars of Islam is not a Muslim (prayer/fasting/tax/pilgrimage/submitting will)

The basic root of terrorism is started by Saudi Arabia in the modern times and in ancient time as well. Presently they are supporting Alqaeda,Taliban and lot of other groups with similar faith to implement sharia according to wahabism. They want to implement these laws that were used by caliphs abu bkor, omor and osman of muslims 1400 years ago.

biggest rival of saudi arabia iran on other hand is not spreading terrorism rather only focused in restricting their laws within its borders since shias are mainly coming from Iran. Iran is not involved in 9/11, and in explosions outside Iran rather it itself is a victim of bombing by sunni groups aided by outside forces.

shiaism is the actual face of islam which is against terrorism, against terrorist groups and organizations. in iran present government is conservative but most of the people in Iran are liberal and their culture is different then arabs rather more towards western culture. shia minorities are living in other countries like india,pakistan where they are being targeted by terrorists due to their liberal views and sympathies with other minorities like christians.

In sweden most of the muslims who are practicing their faith are arabic and sunnis/wahabis but shias in sweden are liberal and dont want to mingle with extreme fanatics. Swedish people should carryout research on major sects of islam and at the end they will realize that shias are the actual islam and majority sects like wahabis and sunnis have been persecuting and killing them throughout their history since they believe that shais are infidels like other major religions of the world.

@Erik Ullenhag

"We should never allow one individual's act to result in an entire religion being seen as suspect or having a group saddled with collective guilt."

- perhaps, but again, the politicians seem more concerned about whether or not muslims are saddled with guilt while Swedes are bombed, what are this man's priorities?

""more than 99.9 percent" of Sweden's estimated 400,000 Muslims are not among the list of roughly 200 violent Islamic extremists in the country identified by Swedish security service Säpo."

- if you know there are 200 dangerous islamic extremists in your lands, why do you allow them to stay there preparing to commit the next atrocity? Do you want this to happen again?

"Ullenhag further emphasised that Sweden should never abandon its ideals of openness and tolerance in the fight against terrorism.

"If a suicide bomber succeeds in creating large divisions and increased intolerance - then terror has won,"

- to date, Sweden's ideals of 'openness' and 'tolerance' have been perceived by these people, to be a weakness that have allowed them to achieve their aims inside Sweden, as they would not have been able to have done otherwise. They have already won the 'terror game' as people don't want to be bombed, but as can be seen, there is no political will to correct the situation. In fact this man Ullenhag seems determined to be a willful victim, misplacing his sympathies for reasons known only to himself. As for the 'divisions' and increased 'intolerance'? Those existed in the islamic community before they ever arrived in Sweden.

It seems that I am bit late in debate. So first of all I want to answer those who claimed that they have read Quran and it does not talk about Peace. They claimed that wherever they read they found violence. So here are some facts which shows how many times Quran talks about a particular topic.

World=Hereafter=115

Angel=Devil=88

Life=Death=145

Man=Woman=24

Righteous deeds=Evil deeds=167

and the most important which I think all of you would be interested.

"Peace" appeared 50 times and jihad appeared 41 times. So I dont know which Quran they found which is full of violence. There many other facts and figures which are not important to mention here.

Now come to the fact that Muslims are terrorists. I really pity those people who don't research own their own and believe what media tells them. I can see that you would be thinking he is yet another Muslim who want to blame media.

According to the source, " According to an official FBI report, from 1980 to 2005, 42% of all terrorist attacks were carried out by Latinos, including illegal immigrants; 29% of all attacks were carried out by left-wing extremists, including communists, and 7% of all attacks were carried out by Jewish extremist groups such as the JDL. Also, according to an Europol reports "EU Terrorism Situation and Trend Report TE-SAT", during the years 2007 to 2009, there were 1,359 terrorist attacks carried out by so-called "separatists" within the EU and 104 attacks carried out by leftists in the EU. Together these two groups alone comprised 91% of all terrorist attacks on European soil. In 2006, in Greece and Italy alone, left-wing extremists were responsible for 100% of all attacks carried out in those countries. The same Europol report listed four "Islamist" attacks on European soil, which comprised only over 1/4 of 1% of all attacks".

If anyone want to go to the source here are the links

europol.europa.eu/index.asp?page=publications&language=

fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005/terror02_05

Now come to India which does not have good relationship with Pakistan and whenever there is terrorist attack, they blame Pakistan for the attack.According to "South Asian Terrorism Portal", number one terrorist organization which causes most trouble to Indian government is "maoists" who are communists. The second is "ULFA" who are Hindus. I bet that you never heard any one of them. Yet they blame Pakistan and Muslim terrorists organisation for every terrorist attack and Indian media hide attacks from other groups. Here is the links."http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/terroristoutfits/index.html".

I am not saying that muslim terrorist organization do not exist. I am just saying that it is the media which portraits whatever they want to yet their exists many other terrorists groups we don't know about because media hides them. The reason could be political or financial I don't want to go into that.

thanks for reading.Peace

Oh, there are only 200 extremist fundamentalists in the country... That is so nice... 200 marked by Säpo that is, of course... So only 200 people are ready to be martyrs in the name of Islam. That is nothing really.

Just about 20 people could be killed per suicide bombing of these 200 known individuals. What is 4,000 women and children between friends? It is only 0,04% of the non-muslim population in Sweden.

Think about it.

99,96% of the non-muslims get NOT to be killed in buses and restaurants!

Why would we discriminate against these wonderful people who kill only such a small percentage of the total???

It is totally worth losing them crappy 4K in the name of friendship with Islam and tolerance towards such a merciful religion that has only 0,01% people that are willing to rip babies apart in the name of their wonderful belief!

@maakm

If you give a link, at least read the damn thing. Did you notice a small, tiny, pite-lite difference between muslims and all the other terrorists that Rob Wainwright (Director of Europol) mentions? Let me quote:

"In 2009, the total number of terrorist attacks and terrorism-related arrests in the EU continued to decrease. This is a welcome development which, however, must not be understood as an invitation to lower the guard. Islamist terrorists inside and outside the EU continue to aim for indiscriminate mass casualties..."

And then he goes on about the other terrorists. I could give 3 quotes of INDISCRIMINATORY MASS casualties. Basques, IRA, Bavarians, Bretons, communists, socialists, anarchists... sure they kill people. A lot of people... But they kill and killed judges, military personnel, police. They hunt down politicians and writers. They even target journalists and wives of snitches. They target empty buildings and tell about bombs on bridges.

But there is REASON to their actions. Of course there were errors and crazy people there also, but it is not a mass movement. They are negotiable. They finished universities and believe in Darwin and equal women rights. They have reasonable goals to their actions. Lack of public support BOTHERS them, like it bothered IRA.

Islamists are TARGETING EVERYONE. If I am a lover of every muslim and have a muslim wife and speak arabic, I have as big a chance to die in a bus as a muslim-hating neo-nazi and a 3 y/o that stands by me... They have no reason. They are hard to negotiate with. They consider murder of ANYONE as a blessing.

To compare IRA to Islamists is like to compare "regular" murderers and serial killers. Sure there are much more victims of robbers and wife-killers, but everyone is afraid of serial killers.

Well Well. Yes I 100% answer to the Quran but still I am peaceful and respect the laws of this land and do not wish harm for anybody. great initiative by the minister.

Anyways you TheLocal SD readers I am sorry to disappoint you but you are a minority. Your cowardice towards Muslims can only be expressed behind the keyboard and that won't do us anything.

@truthworthy

"Your cowardice towards Muslims "

- voicing justified outrage at having been bombed is not cowardice truthworthy (interesting choice of a handle). Dealing with your problems and disagreements with concealed high explosives, and without regard for innocent lives, that is cowardly 'truth'-worthy.

More muslim duplicity?

I agree with byke!

@Iraniboy

- you would.

@Uncle hahahahahahha :D

AMAZING!!!!!!!

you know very well about all other terrorists, their intentions and you also mentioned the possibility of errors. it seems you speak their language and some how I felt that you want to mentioned that they are poor innocent people but you could not do that. Let me just comment about two things.

One thing you said, "but it is not a mass movement". May be its not the mass movement but the right question is who killed more people from 1980 up till now. Damage could only be judged by the killings not the mass movement.

Second,"They are negotiable". Government have to negotiate with them because they live in your neighborhood. If you don't negotiate with them what else you could do. But in case of muslim terrorists, american government said that we don't negotiate with terrorist. what?

Third," They have reasonable goals". If you are not negotiating with them how would I convey my message to you, I tell you, by reacting. and this is the reaction. The goal is simple. Leave their land and they will leave yours. Although, I admit the way of reaction is totally wrong and I condemn it. But If you are not talking to me what I can I do.

Pakistani Government tried many times for open the dialogue between Terrorists and America. terrorists are ready to negotiate but American Government is not. Because they are not living in your neighborhood.

There is a lot of talk of terrorism on this thread, the leads me question what exactly is terrorism. Is payback terrorism ?

If the West would keep to the West and those from the Middle East would keep to the Middle East there would be no problem.

I blame it all on the feely good kumbaya singing pro integration crowd, who believe we can all live in harmony with those of the religion of peace who dislike their relatives being blown to pieces in their home countries.

I'm willing to bet that if a secret poll was given to the Scandinavians, and they were to give an answer, an honest answer, without being afraid that they were to be labled a racist by the Swedish government, over 51% would most likely say they don't like Muslims.

I particularly don't like them either, but that's just a free opinion of choice.

BTW, not liking a religion has nothing to do with racism.

And sure...

99% of Muslims are good, but...

99% of Terrorists are Muslim.

Sweden is on payroll to a clandestine government, do the homework, then You'll see why they take them in no questions asked.

The Muslim council leader hasn't stepped down because her daughter had a relationship with a known terroist?

And just what is it about those 200 Dangerous Muslims on Sapo's watchful eye, and why are they still on Swedish soil?

Things that make You go Hmmmmm?

Swedish should not fear about all the muslims. Most of the muslims in sweden are liberal and willing to know more about other religions. I have muslim friends who are accepting JESUS as their lord so this is a positive aspect of muslims who really want to integrate here. I asked them why they are converting into christians they said that muslims are killing muslims nowadays, and are also persecuting christians. They said that Jesus is the true light in darkness. Christanity is peaceful. These guys also believe that torah/bibel is the start point for all the religions in the world.Unfortunately majority of muslims dont read them but these guys feel joy after reading bible.

At this point, 46 comments have already been posted, presenting pros and cons. I will, therefore, constrain myself to three brief comments:

1. "Islamophobia" is one of those trick that the 57 Muslim countries of the OIC in the UN perpetrate to attack our western freedom of speech and to conceal the persecution of Christians, Jews, Bahai and other faiths (just read about the recent terror against Christians in Muslim Egypt). We should condemn governments who sign on to this fiction of "Islamophobia" - leftist nonsense at its worst.

2. To those who doubt that certain Muslim organizations in the west are bent on taking over the west by "stealth Jihad", read the daily entries in JiahdWatch.com. With regard to Sweden in particular, and the complicity of its leaders in "Stealth Jihad", read

swedenisrael.blogspot.com

3. Some commenter note "see how the Israelis treat the Arabs". Well, I could write another PhD thesis on this topic. Here, I would suggest that the answer is encapsulated in one single headline: "Israeli Hospitals Treat 180,000 PA Arabs" - google IsraelNationalNews.com for the exact URL. In return, Israeli civilians receive missiles launched from Gaza - attacking civilian populations in this manner is a war crime by any standard.

well said dt804a.....

It is important to note not be fooled by the "tolerant" face of Muslims you meet in the Western world today. Islam has historically developed in four stages: 1. Evangelism. 2. Consolidation of power. 3. Revolution 4. Islamic State. Muslims would love to see the West become Islamic states but are only at stage one: Evangelism! Islam has not changed its methods since Muhammad 1400 years ago. Muslims are tolerant, when they are powerless, but this veneer of toleration evaporates when an Islamic state is formed.

The Quran is all about warfare, killing and killing of CHRISTIANS and JEWS legitimately under its own religious law. Not the civil or criminal law that can be found in the west . See below citations.

Hadith 1:13-- "I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah."

Hadith 1.24 "Narrated Ibn `Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers"

Hadith 1.25"Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

Hadith 19:4294 "Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war."

Hadith 1:35 "The person who participates in Allah's cause (namely, in battle). . will be recompensed by Allah either with reward or booty or will be admitted to Paradise."

Hadith 9:4 "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

Hadith 9:50, 57 "No Umma (a member of Muslim community) should be killed for killing a Kafir (an infidel). . Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."

Sahih Muslim 4363: "You (the Jews) should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle and I wish to expel you from this land (Arabia)

Sahih Muslim 4366 Narrated by Umar ibn al-Khattab. Umar heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims

Note to Jackx123, #48

I agree with you, of course, and find the references you provided to be excellent evidence. I would add, however, two points:

1. What Islamists DO is infinitely more important than what they say. If you check a site like TheReligionOfPeace.com, you will find a column entitled "Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace". The entries for 12 Jan include, "Farah, Afghanistan - Two civilians are murdered by Sunni bombers; Peshawar, Pakistan - Two women are blown to bits by Taliban roadside bombers. Children are among the injured; Bannu, Pakistan - A Fedayeen suicide car bomber sends at least twenty souls to Allah; Kabul, Afghanistan - Two civilians are taken down by a suicide bomber on a passenger bus." And Sweden talks about... Islamophobia...

2. It is documented in detail that what Islamists say in local languages like Arabic to their own people has nothing to do with what they say in European languages to dupe the west. In addition, they are masters of dissimulation, which Islam permits explicitly. I remember personally an English statement by the Arab leader Yassir Aratrash that the PA supports the security and integrity of all Middle East countries. A correspondent asked, "Does that include Israel"? Aratrash answered: "Israel is not a country, it's a Zionist entity".

I rest my case.

Would be more beneficial to combat "western" phobia (ignorance) in Islam.

@Swedesmith;

Very honest and to the point comment. I felt a bit like that years ago, until I met some wonderful Muslim people and got to know them. As a result, I don't fear Islam any more than I fear Christianity or Judaism.

It is a great idea for Sweden to combat Islamophobia for exactly the reasons you see by bigots above. Nothing but misinformation and self serving motives.

@cowboykodp:-

When you see & hear reports that the bomber or the suspected terrorist are "Normal" Muslims, it is'nt any wonder that people become "phobic".

Maybe first & foremost the minister should be combatting the sensationalist journalism employed by the media.

I sit in an office with a co-worker who is of the Islamic faith, & came to Sweden in the 70's from "Kurdistan", maybe he is not a practising Muslim in the sense that he does'nt pray to mecca 5 x daily, but he still has the faith. He is also very knowledgeable regarding the Christian bible, much more so than most Christians I know.

I am not able to catagorise him as a "normal" muslim, but I can catagorise him as a normal human-being, well as normal as we can be.

Looks like cowboy will be the first one they off when they take over. Fear not, Rattle Snakes are wounderful too... Until they bite : )

Bigotry has nothing to do with not liking a religion, schmuck.

If I want someone to like me I have to do something myself to achieve this goal. Or I should ask my friend to do it for me?

The government is gonna make attempt #57 to make people like muslims but muslims themselves are not gonna do anything to help the government. At best.

Why single out one group for the privilege?

Sweden should start by by combatting its xenophobia.

Talk is cheap.

The real truth about islam is simply to examine it's history, and witness the present day undeniable documented facts on the ground.

The facts speak for themselves.

Google "taqiyya and kitma", then simply ask yourself if you can believe one word that comes out of their mouths.

I have literally caught muslims telling outright lies in numerous blogs, and every time i call them on it, they run for the hills.

Trying to engaging them in factual conversation about islam is impossible.

They set the ground rules, ....... they dictate, and you listen.

Any deviation from this process, and they immediately shut down the conversation.

Islam is a violent, subjugating, dictatorial fascist political ideology, disguised as a religion.

This is the only way they continue to survive,

Read,..... and learn the truth.

"Muslim children are brain-washed"

maakm.

Who killed more people since 1980 - roads or serial killers in Europe? Would you communicate with a serial killer at the same frequency as you come in contact with roads and cars every day? Get the point, or shall I draw a picture?

In regards to negotiation... why even US negotiated with Sadr... Israel negotiated with Hamas... Russians with Chechen rebels... The thing is that all these negotiations always led to TEMPORARY stoppage of random TARGETED killings of civilians by muslims and/or exchange of hundreds muslims for one hostage. Muslims are TARGETING civilians. Do you understand this? Nazis were also targeting civilians and also "only small minority actually did it"....

Nazis and Muslims are doing exactly the same thing. Do you understand the diff between collateral damage for which officers are getting kicked out of the army and targeted mass killing? Terrorist acts cannot be excused by errors of the enemy (especially if there WAS no enemy before 9/11 for example). This is the only and sole reason for Islamofobia.

Another parallel. If only 5% of all child sex offenders are returning to child rape, I would rather to discriminate the other 95% and NOT live nearby these people.

The mistake a lot of people are making is to equate Islam with religion. Islam is not a religion. It is a totalitarian creed that ranks alongside Communism and Nazism in its contempt for Democracy and individual human rights. It is a cult of death and destruction and has no place in Europe. Any reading of the Sura's Hadiths or the Koran itself will amply demonstrate these facts. It is the diametrical opposite our Judeo Christian heritage.

Just look at what is happening in Malmo if you do not believe me. Or take a look at what is happening to my home country Britain.

You Swedes, alongside all of us Europeans are in grave danger of being eaten alive by this barbaric cult and its followers because you and all of us have become easy meat for the followers of Islam.

There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.

By the way, can anyone tell me any invention made by a person who is a Muslim that has changed world history such as the invention of the light bulb or atomic power or anything else within the last 100 years ?

The strategy for combatting Islamophobia is simple - education. Every time a terrorist plot or action is revealed, Swedish Muslims need to loudly and repeatedly identify themselves and denounce terrorism, Jihad, and efforts to impose Sharia Law on non-Muslims. Unless they actively and continually divorce themselves from the terrorists, they will be wedded to them in the public perception.

They need to say "We are Swedish Muslims and we condemn this!"

@imnokuffar

You mean the same Britain that for centuries raped, stole, pillaged, enslaved, and colonized?

Now you have Muslims, Indians, Pakistanis, Africans, etc.. who are just as much British as any Anglo-Saxon. Your forefathers should have though of that before they colonized. AHH SHUCKS!!!!

As they say London was built with Persian Oil.

So comparing Sweden and Britain, does not really work.

Sweden is new to the immigration thing. Its only been 20 years or so.

Some joker above said if you poll Swedes, over 51% would say they don't like Muslims. But the same joker failed to mention that most likely the same 51% would probably say they don't like Jews, Blacks, Mexicans, Asians, etc...

This again is due to the historically homogeneous society. Swedes still show some distrust toward the OTHER.

In time this will be history and native Swedes will adjust, despite all the fear mongering and falling sky rhetoric which our compassionate NON-Swedes like to share on this website.

It's not a "phobia" when all but a very few terrorists for the past few decades have been Muslims. Connect the dots. Political correctness -- "let's all make nice with each other, despite evidence to the contrary" and "never mind that man over there with a bomb" -- is going to get us all killed. If we cannot discuss the issue openly, we will solve nothing. Smoothing things over by trying to fight so-called "intolerance" toward Muslims is not the solution. For heaven's sake, we are constantly on high terror alerts -- and we know it's Muslims who are the likely suspects -- but we're not supposed to talk about it! How do we know who the terrorists are. We don't!

As a radical leftist socialist I agree with some of the rabidly expressed torrent of ideational excrescence, in a word the 'jabberwocky' of lux veritas--what an exaggerated nom de plume! cowboykodp @Swedesmith is very admirable! landofthesheeple's opinion is asphixiating. I hope flobalob, Tom Dundee and I will share the good fortune of never meeting. Dave N's etymological definition of homophobia as "an irrational fear of the same" is very silly. As a scholar of classical Greek and with years of study of the linguistics of several languages, I should like to inform him that meaning is determined by usage-- by usage, not by simplistic etymologies. "Die Bedeutung eines Wortes ist sein Gebrauch in der Sprache" (Philosophische Untersuchungen 43), Wittgenstein.

@cowboykodp

"It is a great idea for Sweden to combat Islamophobia for exactly the reasons you see by bigots above."

- yes, people leaving comments you disagree with, need to be combatted far more than suicide bombers (sic).

Beloved Sverige:

Islam is a dangerous IDEOLOGY.

REJECTION of an ideology CANNOT be classified as a 'phobia.'

A PHOBIA is defined as: an IRRATIONAL fear of a person, object or situation, (but NOT ideas/belief systems)!

To call the OPPONENTS of an ideology 'phobic' is a FALLACY.

ALL ideologies have their critics, but we do NOT hear Christians calling the critics of Christianity 'Christianophobe', Communists calling theirs 'Communitophobe,' or Hindus calling theirs 'Hinduphobe.'

The term 'Islamophobia' is both technically & logically INCORRECT and misleading!

It was created by members of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood at the International Institute of Islamic Thought (Hahahahaha!) in northern Virginia, near Washington, DC!

This NEOLOGISM ("new word"), 'Islamophobia', makes absolutely NO sense & is derogatory, as it is used to DISCREDIT & shut down ALL criticism of Islam as a DANGEROUS IDEOLOGY from the beginning!

Now, to me, it looks like MOST, if not ALL of the believers of Islam, are ILL with:

JUDEOPHOBIA - fear of JEWS,

SUIPHOBIA - fear of PIGS,

GYNOPHOBIA - fear of WOMEN,

COITOPHOBIA - fear of SEX,

HADESPHOBIA - fear of HELL,

NEOPHOBIA - fear of anything NEW,

XENOPHOBIA - fear of STRANGERS/FOREIGNERS,

ELEUTHEROPHOBIA - fear of FREEDOM!

The absurdity of the Muslim "mind" is such that they think it is OK for them to incite HATE against non-Muslims in general (& Jews in PARTICULAR!), yet it is NOT OK for others to criticize ISLAM'S ideology of HATE!

By calling the criticism of Islam a mental 'DISORDER', Muslims FREE themselves from having to respond to VALID criticism against ISLAM!

The very EXISTENCE of this 'neologism' is a tacit confession of Muslims (& their APOLOGISTS) that Islam is a LIE, which CANNOT be defended logically and that 'ad hominem' attacks and censorship are the ONLY ways to defend it!

"Al-walaa wa al-baraa": 'loyalty and enmity' (Arabic) or, loyalty to fellow Muslims; enmity (in thought, word and deed) toward ALL non-Muslims!!

ISLAMIMUS DELENDA EST (ISLAM MUST BE DESTROYED)!!

Read the koran and you will know all about what the muslims are, and stand for. POLITICAL CORRECTNESS is the problem of Sweden as with other places like the usa uk etc. The muslims, no matter how benign they are now, will eventually turn on their host country, and you will regret the day you ever let them in. The muslims plan on taking over by having as many babies as they can. At 5% you will start to have problems. Deport them now. It is not too late. But soon it will be. Political correctness is a mental disorder and slow suicide.

@marcelj

- couldn't have stated clearer, well said.

@DrDillner:

Could you please now define Paranoia?

I think that even this forum illustrates the situation with Islam. Whereas some non-muslims are blaming themselves and other europeans in islamophobia, 100% of MUSLIMS do not think that there is a problem with their society.

Even the "moderate" ones prefer to combat "Islamophobia", than the murderous suicide bombers. Muslims blame everyone around them in their own aggression.

US is guilty, UK is guilty, colonists are guilty, Israel is guilty, swedish islamophobes are guilty, chinese are guilty, french, german, phillipinos, gay people, Britney Spears, Coca-Cola, crusaders, mongols, MTV, stem cells, abortions, non-believers in Allah, NATO, Russians, immigration authorities, education ministry, Indians, social services, Sudanese, teachers, Blocket users, dance clubs, employers - EVERYONE is guilty in muslim aggression!

EVERYONE else but the muslims is guilty in failure of all of their countries. Everyone else is guilty of their radical youth. Everyone but the muslims is guilty in ongoing conflict or ruthless dictatorship wherever muslims put their foot.

Even the "moderate" ones take zero responsibility for the fact that right wing parties are on the rise everywhere in Europe. Only whine and blame everyone else in their own failure as a society practically everywhere in the world...

I am encouraged to see how many astute commenters have recognized the true nature of Islamists and have no illusions as to the Islamist plan.

As my contribution, I refer readers to TheReligionOfPeace.com, which (among other things) has a comprehensive list of "Islamic terror attacks for the past two months" (scroll down to the middle of the page). There are also links to lists for each of the years 2004-2009 and much more. Once one sees the weight of the evidence, even die-hard leftists will have to reconsider.

I love Sweden. A failed Muslim mass murder terrorist event, and the problem is Islamophobia?

Beam me up, Scotty.

Why is the flow of people coming from the middle east to the west? Why aren't people in the west beating down the doors of Islamic states to live there and soak up this culture and religion if it is as wonderful as some say it is?

@No Haram Done;

Man, arn't you the little troll.

I have seen your screen name leaving a trail on the blogosphere.

Are you really so dumb as to use the same screen name everywhere?

Your rehearsed comments will come back to haunt you. Mark my words.

bardus must exsisto evinco.

Another muslim "moderate" threatens non-muslim in order to prove how peaceful and loving this religion is.

Good going... Continue like this. Wise way to prove the opponent's opinion

qui stultus est modo?

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. -Robert Heinlein

I must have missed my conversion to Islam on the way to my Bar Mitzvah.

DUMB AS EVER!

bardus must exsisto evinco.

People that use the accusatory 'phobic' tactic in debate telegraph their own dishonesty and lack of integrity.

They need be be called out on it every time it occurs. No exceptions.

19:01 January 14, 2011 by Njal

@cowboykodp

"It is a great idea for Sweden to combat Islamophobia for exactly the reasons you see by bigots above."

- yes, people leaving comments you disagree with, need to be combatted far more than suicide bombers (sic)."

Isn't it odd, that they never address the contents of those "bigot's" posts.

Speaking of "bigots".

"Intolerance in the quran".

@swedesmith the most poisonous snake is yourself.....@lux veritas tottally co-sign...keep hating muslims,it makes us stronger because we don't feed in to negativity....proud to be muslim and i have no apologies....

@Bigots, racist, Nazis,

Did you ever think why no one "addresses the contents"?

Because no one takes you people seriously.

(Except each other)

"Idle mind is the devils playground".

Find a better hobby.

@Sheba

"proud to be muslim and i have no apologies.... "

- how proud were you when you heard he blew himself up due to your religion. Perhaps you could be proud in a muslim country.

@cowboy

"Did you ever think why no one "addresses the contents"?

Because no one takes you people seriously."

- cowboy, we address each other's comments with the intent of 'discussing' the issues that give rise to situations like these. After all it's a forum right? As for people taking us seriously? That is why everyone else feels it needs to be discussed. One thing is certain: the politicians are not handling this situation, so what alternative do people have but to take it 'seriously', the problem is being ignored, not addressed as it should be.

As for hobbies? Well based on your posts, your hobby is believing you are an internet freedom-fighter, who verbally resorts to unimaginative slurs such as Nazi,bigots and rascists, to 'thrash' all those you disagree with (without saying why).

We are all aware that not all muslims are 'terrorists', but you admonish us for grouping all muslims together, and this has gone on too long for the 'moderates' to have been silent (which naturall leads people to think that there aren't any, you see?). So perhaps you can tell us: Why have the 'moderates' of this belief system never come forward to condemn these acts? You obviously feel they (muslims) need your acidic tougue as a defense. So you explain why.

P.S. - try to keep your natural 'angst' to yourself.

Another left wing idiot thinks that muslims will spare him whenever they will get angry at the fact that Roxette, ABBA and Victoria Silverstadt exist, just because he thinks that suicide bombers are a smaller problem than islamophobia...

Kissing behind went so far that even the threats are alike muslim ones.

Shoul rabbi must be really proud at the good son of the community.

16:27 January 15, 2011 by cowboykodp

@Bigots, racist, Nazis,

Did you ever think why no one "addresses the contents"?

Because no one takes you people seriously."

Typical cop out.

You won't address them because they are the truth, you know it, and that's the very thing you muslims fear the most.

ALL of it, can be verified through undeniable documented facts

The word is out on your sickness, and the cat is out of the bag.

"Bigots, racists, nazis"?

Welcome to islam.

Keep on running, ......because it's all you have left.

@all

There are two kind of people in this forum. One are influenced by Islamic teachings and the other by Western teachings. One group want to defeat the other by the name of religion and the other by the name of freedom.

Two extremely opposite, are looking for the common ground. which is not possible until and unless all come under the umbrella of Islam or under the umbrella of West. So keep going like this and try to kill each other and time will tell who was on the right path. But when that time will come I am sure no one of us will be here to see that. So I just pray that all of us eventually, somehow manage to recognize the right path before our part come to an end.

@maakm

"Two extremely opposite, are looking for the common ground"

- I don't think one of those groups are looking for a 'common ground' at all maakm. And in the West the 'common ground' is what our laws say is 'common ground'.

More of the same fluffy 'let's all love each other' (not really your intent in the long-run), muslim mis-direction.

What else you got?

@Njal

It seems you didnt get what I meant. and your are not in favor to consider the factors which are responsible of this cause. You are still in mood of blaming the other party. Let me give you an example by using the law as one thing as you mentioned it.

your law support freedom of speech and by using this you can say whatever you want. Islamic law does not allow that. So either you change your law Muslims leave their law. So do you have any other option.

Now you get it? If not pity!

@ButtCrackTerry

Fiction, and science fiction, are often the best ways to inspire and influence people.

Especially the gullible fools.

@maakm

- your pardon, perhaps I did misunderstand you, please allow me to explain:

If you are a muslim in the West, the only law you need concern yourself with is the law of that land, the laws of your 'Allah' do not apply.

If you come upon a stituation where the law of the land puts you at odds with islam, then you disregard the teachings of islam. If a person wishes to draw a cartoon, or any other freedom of expression, they may do so without fear of persecution, as long as it is within the law of the land. And if a group of people are offended by such an action, then they may SAY so.

Now that I've answered that, perhaps you wouldn't mind answering one of my questions:

"your law support freedom of speech and by using this you can say whatever you want. Islamic law does not allow that."

If you are in the West, then the law of the land is your law too, correct? It also takes precedence over the laws of islam, correct? I would be mcuh obliged if you could answer these 2 questions for me, thanks very much.

@NJAL

There you go my man.

This is the tone that one must use if they want to be taken seriously and acknowledged.

This is the way a NORMAL person approaches a discussion.

Too bad I can't answer your questions, but I hope NOW some of our Muslim friends can jump in and contribute.

Have a good weekend.

22:10 January 15, 2011 by cowboykodp

@ButtCrackTerry

Fiction, and science fiction, are often the best ways to inspire and influence people.

Especially the gullible fools. "

Thanks for making my point.

Now that we got the personal insults out of the way, i now look forward to the threats.

Keep on coming, you continue to step in it, and every post is an affirmation.

Like i said, ........... never the content.

Hello!

I told some time before: LET'S LIVE IN PEACE! But if the Muslims do not want to live in peace so what we can do??? To fight??? I do not know? It is cruel of course. The peaceful way is that Muslims must go back to Asia! There is not the place for them in Europe if they make such the things like terrorism!!! I am for FREEDOM to everyone!

tomas (Lithuania)

This is an open question to all pseudo-secularists out here:

Name one nation on the planet earth where Islam, as a religion, value or ideology, has promoted peace and prosperity? You will find none!

From its very conception, Islam has remained synonymous to violence and cruelty. Even in the Islamic states, the religion through its ideology preaches inhumanity and unquestionable authority.

Any religion is by the people, people are not for the religion; and this is considered as blasphemy in Islam! So what is so irrational in being Islamophobiac?

We need a self retrospection on the influence of Islam and one will not find it difficult then to conclude that any intelligent and democratic society needs Islamophobia to secure its interests and peace on planet earth.

Peace!!

@Njal

your first question,"your law support freedom of speech and by using this you can say whatever you want. Islamic law does not allow that."

Our law supports freedom of speech but as long as it is not against the Islamic law. As this cartoon thing created such a big problem that Radicals are targeting Europe. By Islamic law Muslims should not do any thing which can hurt people, including muslims and non muslims, including these bombings at public places.

Your second question,"If you are in the West, then the law of the land is your law too, correct? It also takes precedence over the laws of islam, correct?""

If we are leaving in a country where the Islamic law is not implemented, we are obliged to follow that law until it is not against the Islamic law.

You know the problem is Western law is not according to the teachings of Prophet Eisa (PBUH). Westerns have restricted the religion up to the church. The laws are made with out considering the teachings of Prophet Eisa (PBUH).

Because If I am not wrong, most European countries have this law that if you have insulted any prophet, you will be fined and you would be free. But i dont think so the Prophet Eisa(PBUH) ever told this, that you can insult any prophet with a very little fine. So they made the law which is not according to the Bible.

If it was according to the bible then I don't think we ever had this problem.And you see this is what I talk about common ground. I dont think Muslim will ever allow the freedom of speech and I also think that westerns will not tolerate to compromise on freedom of speech. Then the fight will go on and on and on. But if at least Westerns amend this only for their and for the happiness of Muslims. It will solve many problems. By the way they have the exclusion of Holocaust in freedom of speech because it hurts a group of people. So why not this one.

Correct me if I am wrong.

@tomas R: "...The peaceful way is that Muslims must go back to Asia! There is not the place for them in Europe...."

They are NOR required in Asia either as Islam never originated from Asia; the Arab nations are however most welcome to call their brothers and sisters back :-)

@maakm

"Our law supports freedom of speech but as long as it is not against the Islamic law."

- So I guess that's a 'no' for the first question.

"If we are leaving in a country where the Islamic law is not implemented, we are obliged to follow that law until it is not against the Islamic law"

- and I guess that takes care of the second question.

"You know the problem is Western law is not according to the teachings of Prophet Eisa (PBUH)"

- absolutely correct! In the West our laws are probably one of the main reasons our societies are economically/socially superior. And by-the-way, we in the West do not see this as a 'problem'.

If you were to ask us (e.g. a Westerner), what the problem was maakm, they could answer that an incredibly arrogant people were given a safe home (for which they had no right to expect, they did not create it), and for the Swede's compassion, are now being bombed, because they will not change the ways of their lands to suit that of a group of people who have no business being there in the first place.

Our countries developed and evolved, wars were fought for our freedoms, in which Islam had no part, and our collective wisdom is that a secular society is better than a religious one (i.e. islam). But followers of islam who arrive in our lands, then begin to 'instruct' us as to what is acceptable and what is not, without any regard for the courtesy that was in the land before them.

You ended your post with an interesting invitation:

"Correct me if I am wrong."

My dear maakm, you are most definitely wrong.

@Njal

"absolutely correct! In the West our laws are probably one of the main reasons our societies are economically/socially superior. And by-the-way, we in the West do not see this as a 'problem".

I can see that, people are very happy to live their life by a law which is not based on religion.Good for them. But its not necessary if all the people following something then it is the right path.For example, when Prophet Eisa(PBUH) came, all the people for following a path and HE(PBUH) came with other path which was the correct one. but HE(PBUH) was crucified. (this example is for those who believe in Christianity.)

You see, its human nature, every body wants to live their lives in Peace. Like you are living your lives in peace and you are not allowing anyone to destroy it. you people are doing good to save your peace and also for other Muslims who are living with you and every Muslim should support it.

But people who went to war, they migrated all over the Europe to live their lives in peace.(I don't want to go in another debate here that who did what. whether Muslims killed Muslims or America started this war or Taliban started it by attacking 911). What ever the reason, Europe opened the doors for the them.I appreciate that. Its not easy to let other to enjoy on their tax money. But instead of raising questions now, the questions should have been raised before the war started. As you mentioned, Europe reached this after a war which was like hell.So you people should better aware of it. Europe shouldn't become the part of this war. They should have done something before this war. History witnessed that whenever there is a war, every country has affected by it.

But of course many countries made profit out of it by selling weapons. So be it. Even Sweden make lots of profit from the defense industry and America is the biggest client of it. It is a bitter truth.

The point is until and unless that region become peaceful, no Muslim will be ready to leave your land and you will always have this feeling of insecurity.

I would again like to say that "correct me If I am wrong".

@ #11, 62, 78: Perhaps I read it wrong, but I didn't interpret "lux" as being anti-islamic or nonsensical. I thought he/she was pointing out that history has shown that people in power abuse those with less power, and we should question authority.

@ lux: Perhaps it would be helpful to share some of the sources which have influenced your thoughts? Someone on the forum once referenced "The New Totalitarians" (Roland Huntford). I haven't yet read this book, but I wonder if it might be one such influence.

And cowboycodpiece wrote, "Fiction, and science fiction, are often the best ways to inspire and influence people. Especially the gullible fools."

I find it very odd that someone would reference all the world's literature as fool fodder. And I would add that the difference between truth and fiction is very often dependant upon one's perception. What was "truthful" history a hundred years ago very often reads as fiction today. And what about Ingmar Bergman's fiction? Was he a pied piper as well, just leading fools around?

In regard to science fiction, I believe The New Totatalitarians makes a comparison to Huxley's Brave New World. And what about Nineneen Eighty-four? Farenheit 451? The Road? The Handmaid's Tale? Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron? Planet of the Apes? And Sweden's own Karin Boye with Kallocain? etc. etc. etc. Are these all just fiction and sci-fi?

@maakm

"The point is until and unless that region become peaceful, no Muslim will be ready to leave your land and you will always have this feeling of insecurity."

- this is what I was referring to when I mentioned arrogance. Muslims (or anybody else for that matter), are not going to dictate terms to us in our own lands. If this is your true answer, then I hope you are not one of the people complaining when Jimmie Akkesson (spelling?) gets into power. What will your answer be if the West decides to deal with it's 'insecurity' with deportations (or worse it's happened before).

"I would again like to say that "correct me If I am wrong"."

- maakm, there is no sense inviting people to 'correct' you unless you're prepared to accept the possibility that you are in fact wrong. It makes it sound as if you're trying to be reasonable, when in fact you have no intention of being so.

@Njal

Exactly what I want to say. You said my words,"West decides to deal with it's 'insecurity' with deportations (or worse it's happened before). you can do because you are right.

"maakm, there is no sense inviting people to 'correct' you unless you're prepared to accept the possibility that you are in fact wrong." EXACTLY

"It makes it sound as if you're trying to be reasonable, when in fact you have no intention of being so."

And this attitude that I am right and you are wrong never solves a problem.I was not trying, I am reasonable.but you didn't even tried to be close to it.

So let the West Invade in the name of right, Then let them accommodate us in their country in the name of right and then let them kick us out in the name of right. I guess it is right.

@cowboykodp

"@NJAL

There you go my man.

This is the tone that one must use if they want to be taken seriously and acknowledged.

This is the way a NORMAL person approaches a discussion."

- yes thank-you for that cowboy, of course I always welcome comments complimenting my 'tone' from a person who invites (via internet), people to come and have a fight with him whenever he disagrees with them. Then accuse them of cowardice when they sensibly decline your strange/violent offer.

And I'm not so sure you should be giving advice to anyone regarding anything described by the word 'normal'.

You have a good weekend too.

@Njal

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I was waiting for this comment. This is what west do. First they talk very nice. Then try to "What you called reasonable" and always think that they are right. When someone shows the actual facts. they say something that its Tone is changed.

AND THE END THEY BLAME THE TONE AND SHOWS THAT THEY ARE VIOLENT.

its your specialty.

@maakm

" Exactly what I want to say. You said my words,"West decides to deal with it's 'insecurity' with deportations (or worse it's happened before). you can do because you are right."

- or because we're being bombed.

"And this attitude that I am right and you are wrong never solves a problem.I was not trying, I am reasonable.but you didn't even tried to be close to it."

- this whole dialogue between us has been an attempt to do so, so it's not exactly accurate saying that I haven't tried to be reasonable. Now if I were to come over to your house, or better yet your mosque and blow myself up (one of your co-religionist brethren already has remember), then that would be an example of me not being 'reasonble'. As I said before, if you're not prepared to accept the possiblity that you are wrong (humility), then you should not resort to flawed arguments/logic in the first place, then no one will call you on it.

@Njal

Well we came again at the problem.You know whatever you said its the problem. But instead of talking about the problem.One should find the root of this. How this happened?

If you didn't read, I mentioned in my early post that bombing the innocent people is not right and ISLAM never allows it. I dont know which teaching they have exploited to do that. My country people experience more bombings every month than you could ever imagine. I can feel your pain. which we felt many times before.Now it became the part of our life. West should not see that. It is a big mess.

Proving me wrong and yourself right is not the solution. To Clap you need to engage both hands. You cant say every time Muslims were wrong and you were right.you should find the roots of this problem. Which could be stopped but not a single country stand against the war. Now you can kick them out to their countries. Which is not very possible. So......................

@maakm

Look maakm, if you are a muslim in the West, the law of the land is the only law. The law of islam never applies here, if a person thinks it should, perhaps they would be happier in a muslim country.

Now as far as bonafide (i.e. 'real'), refugess go, if you are a muslim and you are prepared to put Western law first in the West, then as far as I'm concerned welcome and enjoy yourself.

But as you know, blowing up innoccents is a good way to get the local population 'pissed' at you. So as I said before, if certain muslims are prepared to kill innocents deceitfully with high-explosive, then don't be surprised when the natural people of that land begin calling for deportations, (or as you acknowledged earlier, 'worse' can happen).

If such people believe Western tolerance has no limit, then they're in for a rude awakening. You are correct tho' when you say no one wins. Personally I believe muslims have never taken our way of life to heart, but just wanted the strengths of our system, but not the responsibilities.

Neither of us is a wise enough people to live together in large numbers yet, and as it's Sweden they are living in, muslims need to go back to re-build their own lands now.

@Njal

You said that and I heard that. That is one way which II can sum as "Do or go back". So it is totally in favor of one party.

I can bet that Muslims cant do that and West should start thinking to kick them out. But f you want to settle it in real then you have to consider the values of the other party. Because they are not slaves. they are humans who cam here to find refuge from the war which is imposed by the West and still going on. Where the limits have been already crossed.

What worse can happen with them, as they already seen the hell. If you really want to settle it then start acting to stop this war. I can bet if the war is stopped and peace is reimbursed, every Muslim will leave your country.

And why would they build their Own land which west have destroyed? its not the question its the answer.

So I guess this the end of our discussion. Its nice talking to you.

@maakm

I should very much like to agree with what you say maakm, but unfortunately the case has been all too often between muslims and the West: Trust

I hope it changes, for both our sakes, and I agree with you that an illegal war (Iraq) brought this situation on all of us. People don't normally want to leave their homes, and I pity those who have had to leave even tho' they would not have chosen to do so.

What we in the West would like to see, if you're interested, is a very strong, unmistakeable condemnation against these terrorists, and their acts. But until the muslim community is prepared to do this, they will have to deal with the host country's distrust. Sorry to say, but I think that's the truth of it, as I understand it.

Nice talking to you too.

@NJAL

I am proud of you. You made some good points without insulting a group of people.

As you can see by your civilized conversation with @maakm, he/she is a real person with feelings, hopes and dreams.

When one insults Islam, it is not Islam which is hurt. It is the Muslims who are hurt.

I personally could give a rats ass about Islam, Christianity or Judaism. I do however care about people.

"The children of Adam are limbs of one body: Having been created of one essence. ... If you have no sympathy for the troubles of others: You are not worthy to be called by the name man."

PS. No one is defending terrorists, fundamentalists, or anarchists. But life is not as black and white as some think it is. Its complicated. What we in the west might at times attribute to a violent bunch, so too people in war torn countries attribute to us as THE violent west.

@Njal

Well Said :).

you have raised very interesting facts. The whole conversation proves that you care about the society and about the fellow people (Muslims and Non-Muslims).

This is what matters, If every body care about the others, specially I would say Muslims, they have to prove in this society that they care about the fellow citizens by raising voice against Terrorists. In this way they can have the sympathy from the west and the solution could have be found.

Once again...

99% of m*slims are "GOOD" m*slims...

99% of terrorist are "GOOD" m*slims...

I get so confused. What am I supposed to apologize for again?

The cartoons?

That people in Iraq can now vote for the type of Government they want?

The fact that girls are actually allowed to go to school in Afghanistan?

France won't allow a headscarf?

Sweden is now forcing immigrants to learn the language in order to get their welfare?

Please help me out, tell me what I should apologize for so these reasonable people will stop blowing themselves up.....

"Please help me out, tell me what I should apologize for so these reasonable people will stop blowing themselves up..... "

That's simple, no need to apologize, just relent to their caliphate, except your status as a dhimmi, an live under islamic rule.

Is that too much too ask?

"Moderate muslims" adhere to the same end game as their terrorists, who are currently doing the dirty work for the "brotherhood".

How about meeting those leaders to develop a strategy for combating Islamic extremism? Islamophobia will take care of itself.

This move is an outright insult to a Swede and his values. The minister and Islamist leaders have taken it for granted that we all are going to be Islamophobic over night.

Get a life and do your job properly Mr. Ullenhag in the first place.

Beloved Sverige:

Islam is a dangerous IDEOLOGY.

REJECTION of an ideology CANNOT be classified as a 'PHOBIA'!

A PHOBIA is defined as: "an IRRATIONAL, intense & persistent fear of certain situations, activities, things, animals, or people," (but NOT of ideas/belief systems)!

To call the OPPONENTS of an ideology 'phobic' is a FALLACY.

ALL ideologies have their critics, but we do NOT hear Christians calling the critics of Christianity 'Christianophobe', Communists calling theirs 'Communitophobe,' or Hindus calling theirs 'Hinduphobe.'

The term 'Islamophobia' is both technically & logically INCORRECT & misleading!

It was created by members of the terrorist group the Muslim Brotherhood at the International Institute of Islamic Thought (Hahahahaha!) in northern Virginia, near Washington, DC!

This NEOLOGISM ("new word"), 'Islamophobia', makes absolutely NO sense & is derogatory, as it is used to DISCREDIT & shut down ALL criticism of Islam as a DANGEROUS IDEOLOGY from the beginning!

Now, to me it looks like MOST, if not ALL of the believers of Islam, are ILL with:

JUDEOPHOBIA - fear of JEWS,

GYNOPHOBIA - fear of WOMEN,

SUIPHOBIA - fear of PIGS,

CANISPHOBIA- fear of DOGS,

COITOPHOBIA - fear of SEX,

HADEPHOBIA - fear of HELL,

NEOPHOBIA - fear of NEW THINGS,

XENOPHOBIA - fear of STRANGERS/FOREIGNERS,

ALETHEIAPHOBIA - fear of TRUTH,

ELEUTHEROPHOBIA - fear of FREEDOM!

The absurdity of the Muslim "mind" (Hahahahaha!) is such that they THINK it is OK for them to incite HATE against non-Muslims in general (& Jews in PARTICULAR!), yet it is NOT OK for others to criticize ISLAM'S ideology of HATE!

By calling the criticism of Islam a mental 'DISORDER', Muslims (& my fellow mis-guided Democratic Liberals) try to FREE themselves from having to respond to VALID criticism against ISLAM!

The very EXISTENCE of this 'neologism' is a tacit confession of Muslims (& their APOLOGISTS!) that Islam is a LIE, which CANNOT be defended logically & that 'ad hominem' attacks & censorship are the ONLY ways to defend it!

"Al-walaa wa al-baraa": (Arabic) 'loyalty & enmity' or, loyalty to fellow Muslims; enmity (in thought, word and deed) to ALL non-Muslims!!

ALEA IACTA EST (THE DIE IS CAST),

ISLAMIMUS DELENDA EST (ISLAM MUST BE DESTROYED)!!