Foreign students eschew studies in Sweden

The reality is, if students need to pay then they are not going to pay for a education in Sweden. Since its an unattractive system compared to other countries.

Am i the only dumb one who does not understand the meaning of "eschewing" ?

from my own experience, there is one very serious flaw with swedish edu sys and work permit structure. Swedes taught several hundred thousands of non-EU students in the past. Some of them are straight A students. However, when their programs finish, they don't have a chance to work in Sweden and give contribution to the society back because of work permit system. It's not like in the US where you're granted one to two years of work permit so that you can use the education your received in real life.

Where to those students then go from Sweden? I mean Swedes hardly work and pay high tax and educate foreign students. The students simply go to the UK and the US. Even neighbour countries like Denmark as it has less beauracratic and more job opportunities. To my believe, Swedes just prepared highly skilled workers to the other nations! In my class, there were 25 students and now 70% of them work in the UK and US.

No vaseline!

"Åkesson believes there is a need for a more well developed grant system so Sweden does not lose more talented students, according to DN."

That would be a big "DUHHHHHHHHH" ...

@ Luckystrike: Lol, you are so funny, eschew means when someone or people delibrately avoid doing something. Because of the introduction of tuition fees, alot of students from all over the world who cannot afford it did not apply.

@Byke - It would be great if you could give some more detail on what you think is unattractive about Swedish education. I work with student recruitment at Malmö University - it's important for me to understand where you think the problems are. Thanks!

haha! eschewing! even this native english speaker who has gone to uni for 9yrs had to take a second glance at that word! probably not the best word used, the author probably went to thesaurus.com to try sound smart... but it just doesn't fit with TL's style of writing :p

The fees are way to high if the reasoning was to: "We wanted to first reach those who are seriously interested in studying in Sweden''.... could be a fee of 500dollars instead of 15,000! that would sort out those students who a serious to study in Sweden

@ NoVaseline

Dude, what wrong with you. Those who say others cant get job in Sweden should first geta life !!

You did not get job because, may be you didnot meet the job criteria... May be you are not upto the mark or maybe you are overqualified.... But for God sake dont bring Skin colour, Religion or Gender to uphold your incompetence....!!

"Eschew"? Oh dear. The Local finds another word in its outdated dictionary.

Time to get into the 21st century. (Even the 20th would help.)

@ John Wedderburn

I am not a student, so please dont take my word as "god".

But if you look at a young persons perpective regarding education abroad it consists of many variables. And while a university can play a large role in the education it offers, it has very little influence or powers to help students with part time employment which many students need to help them get through, high costs of living, visas / permits, very limited housing in many areas / awful weather (for some) and student social life ... and so on. Now lets compare Malmö to say London, I know the first argument will be that you cant since London is so big, but regardless of how big it is its still competition with what many consider to be better opportunities and students need to be foreseen as customers first and foremost if they need to pay for services. The current system in Sweden is unrealistical in regards to attracting foreign investment/students and this comes down largely to the system that is currently in place set by the government.

As its been pointed out, at present educated "foreigners" who wish to be in Sweden have unrealistical framework placed on them (which doesn't benefit them or sweden).

Personally I think the only reason why we saw so may applications this year from abroad was either because they were unaware of the price increases (it hadn't filtered through yet) or it was put down as a backup plan if all went wrong (but still could lead to cancellations due to the systems put in place) and this also helps explain why so few people have paid an application fee.

London has a good amount of foreign paying students from China etc .... but they come to London not just because of the education, but also the city, historical reputation, the language, the international perspective. It seems to me that maybe someone from the swedish government had a vision of these such paying students/customers coming to sweden in the same manner but hadn't done a reality / feasability check on what was on offer.

Other countries that offer good options for foreign students is Germany.

I have met many africans who have left English education to move to places like Köln to continue their education as it offers cheaper and easier ways to get by.

But what universities need to look at is the whole picture and not just the education the universities offer as students who have to pay look at a much larger perspective.

As a former foreign student, no surprise at all for current situation. Contrary to new rules cannot bring any advantage to Swedis edu, Sweden is losing their competition advantage in the world. The edu system needs to be adjusted, otherwise sweden will go to this delimma deeply. This year is only a start. Some fantastic imaginations only happen in some officers' minds but not in the reality world.

@NoVaseline

You do realise the overseas students who find work directly after their programmes are eligible for work permits?

I don't know the exact figures but 100,000 kronor ($15,625) in fees every year, is probably still cheaper than a quality education in the US.

Eschew - I guess the writer decided to scour the thesaurus, considering it was an article about universities, hehe

@No Vaselin and byke

The comparisons that both of you have mentioned, may have been the old practice in other countries, For instance in UK, the post study visa for foreign students will be abolished in April thereby reducing the number of students coming to UK, and the conservative government. have premeditated the adverse effect and instituted a rise in local fees to the equivalent of the foreign fees currently paid. Let us hope that Sweden will not become the attraction of dump and unqualified foreign student in the future.

eschew??? Why would you use a word like that? Trying to impress someone? Or is your translator on drugs?

Personally, I try to forgo using words such as eschew.

@byke You hit the nail on the head. The only thing that attracted foreign students was the free lunch. If you must pay there is superior education to be had elsewhere in the world and in nicer places too!! What about University of Hawaii?

As far as I'm aware, Sweden was the last country in Europe to end free higher education for non-EU students. The drop in student registration was to be expected. The same thing happened in Denmark after that country introduced fees in 2006. As in Denmark, Swedish universities can expect registration numbers to climb again (though probably not to the same heights as when no fees were charged).

As someone who's been in Sweden for nearly six years and is involved in academia, I heartily concur with No Vaseline's comments.

It is *very* difficult to stay in Sweden after. A few examples of these are:

1) Learning Swedish

Swedish courses at the university level are prioritized for Erasmus students. It is nearly impossible to get into introductory courses at either SU or KTH--I waited 18 months for such a course at KTH and I was a student, not a temporary exchange student looking to party and hook-up.

"So what?" you might ask, "Go to SFI." Well in my SFI course, there were eight masters students, along with two refugee women who couldn't read in their mother tongue. After six weeks of suffering all the masters students abandoned it.

Since then I've struggled by going through the expensive Folkuniversitet courses, as well as self-study. Now that I'm above the introductory level I can easily get into courses at SU. However to get there has been a struggle, and it is not something one necessarily has the time for during a two-year masters program.

It is possible to survive in Sweden without knowing Swedish, but one *cannot* thrive in Sweden without it. You can get a job at major international firm such as Ericsson, but good luck at anything smaller.

2) Not being born here

This is not necessarily a racial issue, though there is definitely a undercurrent of that here. Rather, this is about navigating a system that purports to be free and open, but rather is instead riddled with favoritism and backdoor deals.

I offer as an example the housing market. If you aren't in a government rental queue, good luck qualifying for an apartment. If you are in a rental queue, good luck getting *anything* with less than three years of credit. Try your luck on the black market? My best wishes for your success with that.

Of course every nation has little peculiarities which are known and accessible only to the local population. Unfortunately in Sweden, the inherent barriers to success for such basic items as housing are nearly impossible to overcome. Even native born Swedes often find it impossible--how many people remember new students living in tents on SU's campus last fall?

Summary:

Given little or no solid job prospects *simply based on the language issue alone* on top of a completely opaque culture, an outcome of which is a *nearly total lack of readily accessible housing*, it can be nearly impossible to try to stay in Sweden unless one is extremely motivated. It is often easier to give up and move to a more welcoming country, such as the US or UK.

This has been my experience here. If I didn't like living here so much, I would have moved home long ago. Being an immigrant is never easy, but the hypocritical double-standard that Swedes apply is sometimes breathtaking to behold. Additionally, their incredible short-sightededness in educating me for free, yet making it almost impossible to stay, is amazing.

I agree with NoVaseline.

>They don't have a chance to work in Sweden and give contribution to the society back because of work permit system.

@Puffin How realistic do you find to find a job DIRECTLY after graduation? Imagine your visa will end two weeks after. Good luck.

Most of my Swedish friends who graduated from Master programs were unemployed for couple of months before finding a job. This is a normal situation for every University graduate, it's just some of them have a permit pressure and will be kicked out of the country without a chance to pay back to the society which gave them (previously free) education.

And also there are more then 20 countries in Europe outside of EU. A little unfair to call them *non-European*.

I'm a student at lund university. I don't recommend any one to come here to study. I'll write a few reasons of them:

1) if you come here, most probably you will not be able to find any accommodation for a few weeks or a few months. there are very limited accommodation opportunity. Since each year, students face with this problem, why university doesn't do anything, it is weird.

2) Here is too expensive and cold. Especially, cold wind is terrible in here

3) There is no food place, only arabic or thai food place are available. After 5pm, almost all places are closed. and eating outside is very expensive

4) There are very few lecturer who has an academic title, there are very very very few lecturers who are professor. most of them have a master degree or no academic title.

5) the books are taught here are very low quality, some lecturers use their own books that are written with a broken english.

6) if you can pay €10 000-15 000 per year for a school, you can get more quality education in the USA.

I agree with #20 SaxSymbol73 that

Sweden policy on higher education is incredibly short-sighted.

I think this is the beginning of an end. I will not be surprised if our universities will start falling in rankings. EU students are not enough for internationalization of the higher education here. Why would someone pay 200 000 kr per year when it costs

60 000 kr in Denmark (and with better opportunities after studies).

it's time to look for another country that offers cheaper education and at the same time job opportunities. This country is not Sweden. Ask young Swedes, they need to go to Norway to find a job. Norway is full of Swedes working everywhere. There are no jobs in Sweden.

Disgrace...

Shame on Swedes and their country. Naturally & Logically, Education (All levels) is a very basic right for all human beings regardless their cultural/philosophical/religious backgrounds.

However, I am not surprised by Swedes. Swedes have done so much worse than that. Also, I am not surprised by the morons (Swedes) whom are arguing and defending such a disgusting point of view.

life is changing

@ John Wedderburn

How many foreign student have you been able to help with jobs. I think the universities can salvage the situation if they have industrial partners.

Even the swedish student have to rely on CSN for their living expenses. I hope they learn from UK because one day they'll be required to pay 200,000kr for their education and God help them if CSN is still functional then.

This is a step towards that.

Eschew...isn't that the spanish word for masticate?

Hahaha!!! This is just the beginning! The news last time was that about twenty something thousand students applied for admission, and now, only five thousand something ended up paying for the application fee.....watch out, the amount that will end up paying that huge amount might not equal upto a hundred, because i don't think anyone in his/her right senses will pay such amount when you can get a quality education in US, Canada and the UK, and also be able to find a part-time job while you study!

There is no need to bring racism into this matter.

This is a clear case of having good value for money. If I were a non-swede, I will rather go to canada, us or uk where my chances of getting job is higher after my education. On the other hand i might even consider norway or denmark.

The truth must be said, Sweden is good at training people but very bad at employing them. What a waste of resources. I think in the next few years the number will reduce to hundreds

In fact I do hope that the number of non-EU students (who are required too high fees) will be zero, so that the government will understand the reality out there. Sweden needs more foreign brainpower in order to thrive in the 21st century regardless of their origin.

This new rule is very discriminatory because there are non-EU students that do not need to pay tuition fees if they are here with residence permit on the grounds of family ties, marriages and something like that.

to abstain or keep away from; shun; avoid: to eschew evil - ESCHEW

No surprise at all, It had to be happened, and did. I am studying in Sweden in free Scheme and I am very thankful to Swedish Government and people whose tax money consumed in educating me. But sometime, I heard Swedes realizing me that I am studying on their money, and I feel, that I came to Sweden at mercy rather than at my brilliance, Some ask me to when I am leaving? That feeling is sometime killing and I think of leaving immediately, but unfortunately stuck in thesis work and can't leave unless I finished. What use of a Support when you are being realized that you are burden at somebody.

Second, I find some things disturbing in Sweden, First of all, the way Swedes looks International students (Specially developing country student which they usually say 3rd world country students), They don't wish to co-ordinate with them, don't wish to talk them, don't wish to invite them in parties, and above all look them as Inferior. If this kind of treatment they can give to the International Students then I think it is good that Swedish Government took this step. It is better for both. Because as International Non EU, Non American & British, you will definitely find yourself alone among Swedes.

Third, It is right if you have heard that Sweden is Notorious for finding part-time Jobs specially with English language skill alone. Only if consider odd jobs you must be at least 1000% Lucky. Cv's are welcomed but are scanned with last name and Swedish language skill (Svenska), No other merit is much important. So if people desperately looking for Job, choose to change your name to Svanson, Björn etc to give the employer a chance to look further to your CV. Even the job situation in 3rd world countries can be better than this.

Fourth, weather all knows, deadly. So don't need to describe further.

Now come to study, liked the approach of one course at a time :) But found some lack of professionalism in Lecturer and course structure. No encouragement of competition found some sort of discrimination for Non EU's specially when deciding about important study decisions (e.g. Non EU students rarely get supervisor they desire to work with, and many decisions like this) and eventually cannot be compared to a degree earned from UK, AUS, USA & Canada etc.

Those who thinks that Swedish Education is Still cheaper that US, Canada, AUS etc, they are ignoring the fact that students there can find part-time jobs along studies and can even save some money for some unforeseen circumstances. My Brother in AUS and UK, does jobs along Study and paying fees, living expenses, home trips etc with their own disposal. And above all having a respectful Life. I guess in-spite of higher fee than Sweden, they are still attractive. In Europe the other option is ofcourse Germany now.

Eschew, One of those fadish 1970's words, in and out of the american popular lexicon rather fast. I don't know its origion however.

Gesundheit.

even Poland is a good option. Lots of degrees taught in English, and much cheaper than Sweden.

If you eschew "eschew", it's probably because you've eschewed reading.

Previously, foreign students from countries outside europe studied for free. I am curious, did this include white guys from the u.s., canada or austrailia ect. ?

@Israeli

Trolling again I see.

By posting these sad xenophobic comments, with the login name you have chosen, you are letting your country and your people down.

Free University Education for foreigners in Israel is there?

You should change your login name, you are just embarrassing.

I completed a 2 year's Masters from a Swedish University which is situated in a very small town. I am feeling from inside to write here as i found some people only explored the negative sides. Even some others (like otwa) just lied about Swedish education.

Good things about Swedish Education System:

1. High quality education

2. Very skilled teachers. In Sweden, it is not sufficient to get a PhD degree to be a university teacher. A strong research background is very important with a good number of peer reviewed publications. In the top ranking Swedish universities one can not just dream to be a teacher without having a Post Doc. degree.

3. Student Services are just amazing (except housing)

4. Huge educational resources in the library/e-library etc

Good thing about the society:

1. Swedes are damn honest: I am amazed to see them. I highly appreciate this single quality of them that i believe a lot of people need to learn from them.

2. Fresh environment and fresh food: I suffered from asthma which was cured like a magic when i came to Sweden. I was very happy when i found me healthy even in -5C temperature.

3. A service oriented society: I heard it from many of my friends who came to Sweden from other EU countries. For example, if you go to a bank or government organization, you will be served no matter how long it takes and the service personnels are always in smiling face.

Lets not say about the negative sides, i guess they are already discussed. :p

@local-aam

I agree with some of the point you highlighted above, but sorry to say i disagree with point 2 about Education System, Teacher/Lecturer at International level education are not professional. Most of the teachers are PhD students who have tons of load of their own research work and given classes and ultimately they cannot manage the classes in a proper way.

Every country recruits foreign students and never measures the results of this expensive policy. The measure is not in the number of graduates but in what they contribute to your economy. Are they making your companys more competative? There will always be some who claim that there are cultural or social benefits but these are not things that can be objectively measured except in your increased crime rates in your immigrant population.

Why on earth did you ever give free education to non EU students??? In Britain we're already complaining about the overseas EU students who don't have to pay (in theory they take out a loan for the fees, in practice they just go back to their country and never pay them back)... we're even complaining about the non EU students who pay £12,000 a year... Swedish citizens must have been outraged!

@hammad674

I guess there are differences between universities, but in my 5 years at KTH, I've had master graduate lecturers twice (both had been involved in research at the university for many years), both in basic level courses (i.e. bachelor level). It has never happened in master level courses, where PhD student's are usually TA's and take care a few tutorial sessions or lab exercises, but never lectures.

@dunce

Increased crime rates, really? How dumb are you? Most foreign student's I've encountered are master's student's, not exactly people who would go on a crime spree...

@lcarusty

Giving them a free education is definitely a good thing, if there's something we really need, it's more hardworking smart well-educated people, the failure has been in making it hard for them to stay. Even if they don't stay though, there are definitely benefits that outweigh the relatively minor costs to society of educating them. International students either go back to their home countries or some other country, but they often have a good working relationship with people in Sweden, making them among the first they turn to when the company they work for is looking for some deal outside of their country.

You make some valid points, uname, but I am not sure the long range benefits outweigh the costs of providing free education to non-citizens.

However, if Sweden is indeed going to charge tuition, it should make sure the universities are offering a quality ecuation and that there is adequate student housing. With its low crime rate, the beautify of its land, and the english speaking population, Sweden could easily become a premier destination for upper level education.

The Swedish students live fine off CSN money but the international students do have to make ends meet and it's quite hard doing that in Sweden. Part time jobs are incredibly hard to get.

The education is no doubt of really high quality. But the system is designed in such a way that as soon as your done with your degree your kicked out of the country. How are you supposed to contribute back to the country if your forced to leave?

With the introduction of tuition fees, this is what will happnen soon:

There will be a big decline in student enrollment rate, hence, big reduction in job requirements for admin and academic personnel in universities, resulting in closing down of various faculties, hence loss of jobs among university personnel, hence closing down of certain universities.

The downward spiral shall continue to happen and soon, there will be only a handful of Swedish universities left whose existence may be fully financed by the goverment, meaning they will have limited fund to attract good academic personnel, hence we will have mediocre level of universities in Sweden with little variety of degree options, deprieving the Swede younger generation good range of alternatives of study fields and high quality universities.

And it is going to be a sad end for all Swedes due to their own deeds....

Few students, Few courses, Few programs, Few universities, Few production of potential employees, Few recruitment, Few factories & companies, Few goods production, Few consumers, Few doctors, Few healthcare facilities, Few people Few transport service........I find it amazing when one of my friend was going to stockholm from a small town in north of Sweden. The train didn't arrive when he inquired the personnel replied, '' We can not run a train for 3 people'' Look at the circumstances now think seriously what future will bring to Sweden?

A re-consideration of all policies are needed to avoid chaotic circumstances!

I've been following the story on the tuition fees and while I think the drop in applications was "to be expected", what are the mechanisms being used to counteract this drop in admission for the courses that are being HEAVILY driven by international students??

I'm an international student at Lund University and in talking to my classmates, they say they wouldn't pay $15,000 for education here.

1) Expensive - this whole damn town is incredibly expensive, if you can find housing in the first place

2) No international presence - its very homogeneous here. I often don't feel welcome among Swedes.

3) The curriculum is not challenging enough. This may be just our program, but other students from other programs have stated they wouldn't pay money for the program they are in. The United States, even Canada, has competitive international fees and a much more rigorous curriculum.

4) The teachers don't ... really ... care. The whole course caters to the teachers, with no thought of integrating course material. No feedback. Some have been very difficult to approach.

5) No job prospects. - But this is ok, because I don't want to live in Sweden anyway.

I feel like the universities, Lund in particular, has not prepared sufficiently for the application drop. Be prepared, Lund. The whole dynamics of your courses will change. Who do they think gave Lund Uni an international presence in the first place??

The fees are designed to do this by intention. The immigration policy enforces it - economics and society maintain this.

I am a medical doctor. I took one year master's degree from orebro university in methods in medical diagnostics which is totally a funny subject. Here I cant have any contact with patients without sound knowledge of swedish. the net result is, I am going to forget my clinical knowledge day by day. I am now learning svenska to be doctor here but they dont extend visa for that purpose. My overall experience in sweden is really bitter and it becomes more bitter when it comes about tuition fee. my question is " Why should we come to Sweden with huge amount of tuition fee for a funny subject like mine without having opportunity of part time job?" By the tuition fee, one can get best quality education in USA or UK. Sweden should open the door of part time job or work permit or green card specially for students, as they applied high tuition fee. Even in USA they give residence permit for 2-5 years at a time whether in Sweden they give only for 1 year for two years masters program. Again we have to pay fee for extension. Without having sufficient part time job opportunity, it really matters for some students to arrange documents, solvency certificate and application fee while living expense is high over here.

I must agree with a majority that the future does not look too good. Currently working in higher education in the UK, the increase of tuition here will have a negative effect on the Non Russell group universities.

In Sweden, I was always happy with the free education.

However for the prospective students outside EU I find it difficult to see why they want to come to Sweden, especially the opportunities afterwards. USA or Canada looks maybe more interesting, former East Europe and countries like China are offering high quality degrees with famous professors.

I also see some comments from international students in Sweden. I think like everything the experience of the Swedish society can be a mix good and bad things. This is from somebody who have studied in Sweden, USA and a few other countries.

If the following statement "We wanted to first reach those who are seriously interested in studying in Sweden," is the only true statement regarding the introduction of tuition fees, then they must have introduced the requirements for tests like Gmat, GRE and/or SAT. The student who has passed Gmat and got more than 650, is really interested in getting education.

But, there is one big BUT, If someone gets high score in Gmat/GRE/SAT, then there is a miniscule probability that, that someone will apply in Swedish Universities.

@NoVaseline

International students in the USA are not given any type of work permit upon graduation. They have to find an employer who is willing to sponsor them for a work visa. I'm not sure where you are getting some of your information.

Interesting that you should be attacking Sweden over education, whilst Israel commits war crimes and genocide.

Here I tried to explain some of the Sweden's efforts to compensate high tuition fees and arrange scholarships for the students:

http://www.goforstudy.com/swedens-efforts-to-compensate-high-tuition-fees.html

Hopefully it would help