Swedish court: naked Muhammad pics legal

Nice to see a court that was not intimidated by the radical beast islamofascist living amongst us. Yet, they have handed down a death sentence on Carl P Herslow by publishing his name and picture. We know these half crows half hyenas will not rest until they kill him. That's just the way they roll.

Another party which needs members for his party. nobody has ever asked in Sweden to allow me marry young but instead you know how many pedos we have in Sweden :)

If you are really interested to know the Prophet and his marriages you need to spend some time to study

The new research shows that Bibi Aisha was either 15 to 19 . You can read it with details he

.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action?load=detay&link=156101

Youtube , ?search_query=Prophet+Marriage+&aq=f

You should learn it form an Islamic scholar there is even white Ex christian who explains the wisedom behind the Prophet marriages.

By the way if you read Bible there was prophets who had over thousnad wives...

The law was different thousnad years ago , a few decade back the age of marriage was between 12 to well read the links to learn more.

These parties have no better solution for others but to just pick on Muslims and that is what their works are nothing else.

I think some of those American fundamentalist sects have some odd arrangements as well ...

if anyone is guilty its an entire religion for promoting marriage between a grown man and a child.

gross!!!

The Swedish Court that passed such an insolent judgment will one day stand naked to face a higher court

The islam issue aside, doesn't this fall foul of the law about producing naked images of children?

I seriously do not understand, these people... Why in the world they come up with such things that directly hurts the sentiments of a large group of people (Muslims) all over the world.

So many things have happened in past few years, and still every now and then, something new like this comes up... Even a school going can understand that this matter is very crucial & always results into spreading hatred.

Then still why they come up with these things? This is not freedom of Speech and expression, this is "Intentional" spread if hatred in the world...

There should be strict rules all over the world, to prevent such intentional spread of hatred, disguised in the name of "Freedom of Speech".

P.S. I am not against the freedom of speech, but there should be better ways of speech and expression and should have common sense involved rather than efforts to spread hate.

While it definitely should not be a crime to portray the profet in the way described in this story, islamists notwithstanding, it is definitely a sign of immaturity or infantile agression to do so. By filing suit you are only bringing attention to the intolerance of a certain segment of the population. What did he hope to achieve? Maybe it should be a crime to be an idiot?

Anyone marrying a child is a paedophile.

This was a political protest against childhood marriage. Child marriage occurs in several religious sects.

Marriage of children to adults needs to be stamped out at every turn. There is no excuse for that perverted sickness, in European society.

Anyone who finds it acceptable in any form for a child to be married to an adult shouold be either,

a/ if European, incarcarated in a secure mental institution

or

b/ if not European, immediately deported with no right to return under any circumstances, regardless of consequences upon deportation.

Child marriage needs to be faced down. If that means annoying entire communities such as mormons or muslims, then so be it.

Anyone found to be giving any form of defence to child marriage in any manner should be removed from society as a danger to children.

Also anyone, from any country or culture, upon entering the European Commission should be made to swear an oath to uphold the right to vote for all citizens, to uphold all rights such as womens rights, childrens rights, disabled rights, homosexual rights, transgendered rights, etc, etc, as well as upholding all rights in the European Convention on Human Rights.

Any person refusing to swear such an oath should be refused entry to Europe and any person found to have breached that oath should be summarily deported without trial, regardless of consequences of the deportation.

If they want to live in Europe, they should seek to adopt our modern European ideals, not impose those of violent, vengeful sky gods.

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This is fantastic news! Disrespect should never be against the law.

Looks Muhammad could stand to do a few sit-ups.

Let me start by stating that I think pedophiles deserve the worst sort of punishment imaginable.

Let me continue by saying that OVER ONE THOUSAND YEARS AGO (uppercase intentional to make a point to people who think this marriage occurred last year or even recently) it was quite common to arrange marriages in Muslim, Christian, Oogypoogy-insert-religion-name-here, religions for completely non-sexual reasons. One did not have to be a pedophile to have a child bride OR husband, as was often the case as well. In fact, two children would often be married, but not see each other for many many years... for POLITICAL reasons.

I am actively Christian and proud of it. But I hardly think that a prophet of a religion that is different than my own is a monster because, in the climate and era during which he lived, he engaged in practices that were accepted, normal and considered honourable. There is absolutely no indication that this specific marriage was in any manner sexual or abusive or perverse in nature. None.

So you folks mounting your high horses and attempting to judge something that occurred thousands of years ago in a completely different culture, different land, different everything, by contemporary standards, values and ores need to relax and start educating yourselves a bit more.

That some radical activist with hate living in his soul would deliberately attempt to convince gullible people that this is evil is just appalling. If it happened today, it most certainly would be evil. It didn't, it wasn't. What this Herslow man did was evil. Promoting religious hatred is in contravention of the UN Human Rights Code and Sweden needs to remember it is part of that agreement.

That is very much hatefull. depicting someone who you never knew who he was is foolish. ultimately this wont do any harm to our beloved prophet. It is only bigots that question his character, the rest of humanity praise him for what he has done for the world.

so......the court should judge all the people around the world who married 15+ girls in old days? if Muhammad did not marry her, she would have been married to a merchant who would have abused or tortured her or would have been sold elsewhere, maybe that was a better solution? Why people have to look at the bad thing 1st and not study the motive behind it? In old days this is how it was done....even my great great grandfather married my great great grandaunt when she was 14yrs old! please judge him too! In old days, girls who were not married before 18yrs where treated badly and it was lucky to have been married at young age because then the husband took care of her if he was a good man.

It funny how people are bringing a thing that happen thousands of years back and not looking at the pedophiles present now! what motive do they have in having sex on the internet with 12yr olds??!!

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@jeffi_in_denmark: I agree with you

Besides is it ok to speak good and praise HITLER in SWEDEN? is it ok to draw cartoons showing SWEDISH KING praising HITLER?

If calling drawing pictures like that, FREEDOM of speech, regardless of what context is used, then it should be ok to draw cartoons for everyone, anywhere for anything! Be it the kings, or queens or anyone!

If european countries don't like even a sentence of good words for HITLER, then it should respect other reasons as well.

I understand that this is an emotional topic for whole Europe and I hated to discuss here, but the point is, everything is not freedom of expression! You need to see the situation as well, how many people will be hurt by that!

When you know some issues will create public unrest and chaos, then it is in public interest that it is not touched. You can discuss the issues on intellectual level. No body will be hated for that! But this is like making fun of people on govt scale!

And yes, as jeffi_in_denmark stated, these practices are quite old. I agree many idiots DO FOLLOW THEM even now, but you can not simply label the muslims for that!

After the world war, when germany lost a lot of men... what did it do? just to BREED the germans, people were called from outside to marry women in germany. Some people make fun of ISLAM that it allows so many marriages. Yes true. It does allow. But the real reason was based on the situation of old times. Men were less. Women had to be given shelter as well as their rights. And thats why it was allowed. There was a danger that people would simply misuse the women and leave them. Thats why this rule was enforced

But like every rule in the world, it can be used for good or for bad, this has been misused by many as well.

The practice of child marriages, many wives should abolished but not by creating more unrest!

Do you guys see the pattern? every bigot is riding the Anti-Muslim ticket to raise on popularity, this is how SD got the votes. it is an easy ticket to fame to incite hatred against Muslims. This is a dangerous pattern that is unfolding all over Europe.

the freedom and democracy they claim is contradicting itself.

@truthworthy, there is a sect of the Muslim population that shuns their host European society, and rebels against it. It is easy to see this in France, Germany, the UK, Italy, et. al. You can't always just demonize the locals for voting for these parties. Muslims in this segment are intimidating and violently attacking Jews, committing rapes, and breaking the law in other ways. Before you write this off with your victimization ticket of "Islamophobia" you really need to look at the community as a whole and realize there is a problem with a significant segment of it.

Salam,

Since my name is Mohammed, I feel a moral obligation to try and talk some sense into some.

First of all, yes...there is a double standard in Europe. Not in Sweden proper, but due to the recent past of the place, making fun of a Rabbi can land you in jail in certain places, while doing the same to an Imam is OK. Let's all admit that. Let's condemn it. But let's also learn about the horrors of the Holocaust and not lose sight of why things are the way they are.

Secondly, let's admit that while Jews are nowadays more an ethnic community than a religious one (the world's most outspoken secularists and atheists happen to be Jewish!), Muslims are still in the state where that ethno-religious line is shady. Indeed, ever since my "apostasy", Muslims do not consider me a Muslim any longer. Instead, I am harassed, threatened and in certain cases even victim of their violence.

Democracy is a work in progress. And it's perfectly reasonable to put the right to "offend" above the right "not to be offended". That's the only way we (by that I mean Humanity) can guarantee certain freedoms and liberties. Otherwise...the Quran would be banned because of the heinous language it uses towards polytheists and pagans. There will always be the odd polytheist or pagan who gets readily offended by certain verses.

And yes...there is a lot of hatred towards "Muslims". I feel it. I live with it. Because of my name and the way I look. It's there. And if I were slightly less educated, I'd probably have found refuge in my religious identity. As is the case for so many young people I know.

Let's keep a cool head about these issues. Neither the OMG!!11!! MUZZIEZ!!! nor the SAY MY RELIGION IS PEACEFUL OR DIE!!! folks should be steering the debate.

Thank you for reading.

It is Media tactic to show one side of picture.

you just listing those sources where they say His wife was 9 years old but some better others say she was 19 , but if you really wish to disgrace me then i will blame freedom of speech , western values, and you. why you dont try to understand, you white monkey :)

@yyyvxyyy (by the way what is this nick ?:P abbreviation of something?)

You are right.

media tactic or no media tactic.... but this can create chaos in the country! whether the muslims are tolerant or non-tolerant....is it necessary to provoke the anger of some ethnic group?

United States economy is suffering now, though it still controls the world but still, because of getting involved at so many fronts!

China's economy is not worlds 2nd most powerful, just because it remained focusing on improving itself and defending itself, not by launching new fronts.

Trust me, once clashes start taking place, riots become the norm of the day.. your economy suffers a LOT. And such actions simply help in creating chaos!

muslims in the usa are being investigated by homeland security for being a terrorist organization. Momentum is gathering for the deportation of this terrorist group. usa citizens want these people removed and sent back to where they came from. This is coming. In general mulims do not fit into western culture.

lets be logical and i need to give answer what been asked by white monkey :)

i call Only Atheist people white monkey because it is what they also believes about them self but it is different discussion that how religious people evolved as human and Atheist as Monkey .

now if somebody is fair to decide that Mohammad(PBUH) wife not 9 at age of His Marrege the you can read other side of Islamic Research

http://www.understanding-islam.com/q-and-a/sources-of-islam/what-was-ayesha-s-ra-age-at-the-time-of-her-marriage-to-the-prophet-pbuh-5107

now if you believe that there should be freedom of expression then i agree with you that that is useful only when it is used for constructive purpose if you dont believe my logic then yyyvxyyy@gmail.com is my email and send me your mother naked picture because we will organised exhibition to raise Charity for few swinger and pet clubs in Sweden.

it is very easy to distinguish Human and Monkey

@marcelj your plan for Muslimss sounds like that of Hitler for the Jews during WW2. and by the way, a lot of US and Swedish Muslims did not come from another country but are natives, they reverted to Islam. what would you do about them? murder them?

*The Skåne Party is a small right-wing populist, anti-immigration party based in southern Sweden.*

Great journalism. When exactly is a party considered to be "populist"? When the author disapproves of it?

Not sure what the problem is here...

The koran says Mohammed married a 9 yr old and the koran is perfect and not to be questioned.

The reality is, Muslims and multicutural fanatics don't want us reading or talking about the really horrible things described in the koran.

We're just supposed to sit back and nod while they tell us that it's the "Religion of Peace" based on no factual basis whatsoever.

I don't understand which one is more logical of the following two cases.

If I say that London bridge came into existence by it self or emerged from sea or whatever, people will not gonna believe me and I will be put into a mental hospital. But if I say that a guy designed it and made it, then people will eventually believe it. Even though they have never met that person. (I know you have seen the video on youtube)

But when it comes to the Universe. It becomes opposite and instead questioning about the existence of universe, they questioned about the existence of GOD. Isn't it silly. Even though it is also described in Quran upto a detail which is enough to believe in GOD.(Sorry folks youtube was not available at that time).

The problem with such cartoons is that it is intended to show hatred. Tell me what do you think about a person who shows your mothers naked picture, or illustration of Astrid Lundgren as a slut in Swedish Newspaper? or Prophet Moses naked in front of all Jews living in Sweden?...Doesn't it mean that they only aim to insult rather than showing their rights?

@marcelj, thats really harsh thing to say. One should be careful to distinguish the difference between Muslims and radical islamofascist. I know many muslims who are admirable, sweet and distinguished individuals. I also have met some very sick and disturbing radical jews and if you put them next to the Islamofacist the only difference would be that one is wearing tzitzits.

@ technoviking where in the Quran does it say, Muhammed married 9year old? please quote the verse.

By the way, I dont see anything wrong with the marriage between the prophet and Aisha, it was regular practice in Arabia that time for girls to marry at that age and there is fundamental physical and mental difference between the girls of today and the girls of that period.

Of course I know this statement won't satisfy the hatred-hungry bigots. So f*ck yourselves.

I really have no comment about this article but I have been following the comments.

I find it most interesting that more comments have been removed than there are comments left standing.

It used to be the "Muslim articles' " comments used to be disabled, but now it's enabled with the caveat of any and all comments that ask controversial questions (like Muhammad's bride) are deleted.

Very nice censoring TL, North Korea and China would be proud.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Aisha

(The question is: why isn't it child pornography?)

Remember, she was 6 when they met and 9 when the marrage was consummated.

Politics aside, who would want to see Muhammad naked?

Of course it should be legal. Why should it be?

Bowing down to islamists is never a good idea. Just look at how Islam spread across Arabia and the middle east; with violence!! It's definetely a "religion" to watch out for.

hay check out how interesting, how it happened , i cant believe it is 9 years.

you defiantly defiantly like this stuff

http://www.understanding-islam.com/q-and-a/sources-of-islam/what-was-ayesha-s-ra-age-at-the-time-of-her-marriage-to-the-prophet-pbuh-5107

@ iraniboy

Valid point, but no one is expected to LIKE anything like this regardless of the target.

The point is, you can't just repress the opinions you don't like, or worse as Muslims are apt to do, threaten or try to kill someone for saying something you don't like.

Not everyone has to agree with you. Nor you with them. But you can't use threats or censorship to silence them either. This is not a fascist state.

you will be sick/stupid if you believe that a person like Moses,Jesus, Mohammad had such a sickness that He would marry a 9 years old Girl infect, it is not 9 it is 19.

west has its own propaganda against Islam and they just try to mold the truth .. this is misconception because of one narrative but there are plenty of other sources against this but Media is in hands of crooks.

for details read this

http://www.understanding-islam.com/q-and-a/sources-of-islam/what-was-ayesha-s-ra-age-at-the-time-of-her-marriage-to-the-prophet-pbuh-5107

@ truthworthy

Rather, the Hadith (Sahih Bukhari 7.88) among others...

So please clarify your above statement. You are saying that you approve of adults sleeping with/raping helpless nine year old girls who have absolutely no say in the matter?

The legal age to marry a girl in Saudi Arabia is 9. That's because Aisha was 9 when Mohammed consummated his marriage to her (he married her when she was 6). Are you saying that the Saudis don't know anything about Mohammed or the Quran? Also, people have been killed for questioning the Quran. Are you questioning the Quran? You better not or you might be killed by Muslims who do those things.

"Mohammad had such a sickness that He would marry a 9 years old Girl infect, it is not 9 it is 19."

Ok, based on your statement, lets say that I am not questioning or stating the age of the girl Mohammad married.

But would you agree that *if* he did have sex with a 9 year old girl that makes him (muhammad) a pedophile?

if he had married with a 9 years old girl, this is wrong....And I strongly believe that he can't make such mistake. There is a conflict about age, some valid scholars/historians say that she was above 19 when they married. It is also interesting to make a note that his first marriage was with a 40 years old woman when he was just 25.

The marriage was strategic and involved cultural obligations. All of prophet Muhammad's other wives where either widows or divorced. So it was not like he used to marry young girls.

And that happened thousands of years back when this kind of marriage was legal. And about having sex, we should not comment on this since we do not know nothing about their personal life and we dont even know if Muhammad slept with her that way since she was never pregnant......

I agree that in most cases if a person have sex with a minor he/she is sick if his overall personality also proves such sickness. and such people also show other personality flaws

but Mohammad was a person who changed History, and made muslims Super power of that time and Muslims had victory over Rome and Persia according his teachings.

He gave a social system which is still better then western systems , for prove you can check youtube its full of stories that western people are reverting to islam and islam is fastest growing religion in world. you can not say islam spread with help of terror you can do your home work and do some research.

so as i said a sick person has its weaknesses not tale of success , they destroy but Mohammad was forgiving person .

claims are not easy to sustain , and today a scintific theory cant last 100 years but look at quran it cant be denied even after 1400 years ..

i think you better should check your own health and knowledge :)

whenever people have nothing to do they just blame Islam and came into light. He earn only 17 votes . If he is strong and popular enough why not people gave him vote for his ideology.

Those who are Muslims let them decide that what are the reason they follow this religion and rest should continue to think about the betterment of their own life instead of wasting time on stupid thoughts.

First everyone studied and understand Islam and his Prophet,s life, after that they give remarks, Its not a freedom of speech and thoughts by hurting a large number of peoples, without knowing the facts.

It is fun to watch the primitive minds of the religious nuts work their nonsensical circular logic to justify their fairy tale...

Just for kicks, look up "circular reasoning" and for five minutes use your underdeveloped little minds to think about how it might apply to yourself.

You guys are literally incapable of logic and critical thought. Your religion has robbed you of it intentionally. I pity you.

That's why there's nothing coming out of the Muslim world other than fatwas, oil and refugees running to escape the "superior social system" you tell yourselves you've created.

Wake up.

@technoviking use same social critical theory for your self , and if you are willing to have a sitting or long discussion of these topics then let some of your friends help you and we will be talking just critical aspects of both sides .

and we will also know that how logical we are i am open for discussion based on reason and logic and our domain should be religion, society and science

Yes, a critique of logic and reason coming from someone who compares the quran to science...

You don't know what those words mean even if you like to throw them around.

Now continue with your stone age circular logic.

"The book is true because the book says it's true. The book is true because..."

"Islam is perfect because Islam says it is perfect..."

I don't expect you to comprehend this since you've been fully brainwashed that religion IS reason. Unfortunately for you, it is not.

I don't understand those people who don't believe in any religion, why are they insulting other's religious ties? It's none of their business to discuss or portray what doesn't belong to them. These act of blasphemy can never be called freedom of speech. Moral values have been replaced by hatred and making fun of others here. Love, respect, and treating each other with courtesy means nothing but still they're so-called civilized!

@yyyvxyyy:

"western people are reverting to islam and islam is fastest growing religion in world."

Of course, Muslim immigrants reproduce at an alarming rate. That certainly does not mean that the social system is better than western systems. In fact, this great social system of yours is very similar to that of the Middle Ages.

"claims are not easy to sustain , and today a scintific theory cant last 100 years but look at quran it cant be denied even after 1400 years .."

That is the most senseless sentence I've read in these comments so far. Science has one simple thing that religion does not: proof. Once it is proven, this theory will last forever. Can you prove anything from quran? Just the fact that you don't dare to question it does not make it undeniable.

omment: @Cornelius Hamelburg And you too will grow old and die waiting for your day of vindication. @Nemesis Thank you for that; brilliant and an idea shared by most rational Westerners. @ iraniboy We might not like it but wouldn't go all fatwa on their ass. @truthworthy This isn't merely bigotry. There is a real disconnect between some of the Islamic faithful and the real world. The insinuation that an ancient practice somehow justifies it today makes about as much sense as..... well I can't think of anything. We used to bleed the sick and burn witches. If one truly investigates the origin of these counterproductive activities more often than not they had a basis in religious dogma or simple ignorance. The two are not mutually exclusive. Religion was created to answer the questions we were not sophisticated enough to answer and as a means of crowd control. It still holds sway over the weak and the ignorant. This is no mystery. The mystery is why we still believe it.

@technoviking and @heu

do u know a thing about Quran? Have you read even a tiny bit of it? I dont think so, so dont comment on what Quran has and what not. To you guys its just some laws to cover your body. There is a difference between arabic laws and Islam. Arabs have their own set of laws which are quite barbaric and unlawful but that is not Quran or Islam. Quran is for muslims all around the world and arabic laws are for arabian countries.....

You said to proof Quran, if you read some articles on it then you will see modern science has proved some parts like Wormholes, multiple universes, speed of light etc. Quran in this modern age is still mysterious to the highest scholars because some parts are yet to be found or will never be found by us...

please read it if u want before talking about your "valuable opinions" on it.

The Swedish court has right to decide as per Swedish law.

But they don't have right to exaggerate that Prophet wife was nine year old. She was officially engaged at nine or twelve but stayed at his father home. She moved to Prophet house after getting adult (Please review from any independent literature).

Moreover she was not forced with this marriage. She was daughter of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) best friend who was one of the richest man in Makkah. Abubakar insisted Prophet Muhammad for this marriage as he want to establish relationship with Muhammad (PBUH) which was common thing and considered honor in culture of Arab.

So these type of actions provoke muslims as these are baseless lies by such ignorant persons.

Guys, debating with bigots is like debating with a stone. they wont get it because their logic is covered by hatred and bias.

1. No Muslim regrets the fact that prophet married Aisha, whether she was 9 or 19.

2. To classify the prophet as pedophile makes you foul, because read the definition of pedophile on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

3. To accuse the prophet of rape or child abuse is unfounded because read how he treated children and woman, read about Aisha life and her intelligence.

and read more about all of this http://www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/prophet_aisha.htm

Now, I know and I acknowledge that is is illogical to marry a 9 year old in todays world because we know what they are capable of , we know that will be a child abuse and i know those who justify marrying a 9 year old today because the prophet did does not make sense to me also because they forgot how important it is to consider time and place context in Islam.

of course, as always, this text is for the people who reason and are unbiased. for the bigots once again - f*ck yourselves - no one cares about your low self-esteem and that you had rough childhood (as most SD bigots)

@xcited

Shockingly, more nonsensical arguments without substance. Don't expect us to respect your religion if you can't make even the most basic logical arguments for it's validity.

"Islam is perfect because it says it is perfect" is the entire basis of your religion.

"It's too complicated to understand therefore stop asking questions," is even more pathetic...

Perhaps you'd like to explain the metaphysical mysteries of (Bukhari 34:432) where Mohammed condones raping infidel slaves to us?

Despite your genuine commitment to your brainwashing ALL of your arguments to justify Islam are circular arguments that have no basis in reality other than the repeated, violent demands that they are true.

"Circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works..."

"Mohammed is the prophet becauae he says he's the prophet."

If you'd like to be taken serious by those of us in the civilized world, who are productive members of society capable of reason and critical thought, then you are going to have to offer something more than the same old childish nonsense.

Otherwise, stop using words like "reason" and "science" when you don't even comprehend what they mean.

I laughed. The cartoon is funny.

mikewhite -

You are correct, this happens in the church of Fundamental Latter Day Saints, not to be confused with church of Latter Day Saints. They were rounded up a couple of years ago, and their Jesus (Warren Jeffs) is right now in jail on charges related to trying to marry off a child to an grown man. He will likely never come out because he will be charged with another count afterwards. He is in jail because he is the only person allowed to perform these marriages.

The point is Americans take strong and decisive action to punish these things, and they punish with tough sentences. And the prisons are not spa retreats like in Sweden. Prison time in the US is hard time.

@locaxy:

Shalom, salam and good morning. I enjoyed reading your comment, and have chosen to ignore most of the other ones for precisely the reason you mention - they shouldn't be allowed to steer the debate.

Just to validate one of your points: Those of my jewish friends who clearly identify as atheists do not appear to suffer any negative consequences within their jewish community, whose attitudes I imagine have moved more or less in step with Swedish society in general.

I'd post about the level of mistrust, misunderstanding and perhaps plain hatred that I have observed among even the very secular, but I just don't know enough people and have enough data to do that in good conscience. What I would love to know is whether there is any real difference in attitudes towards jews and muslims (in the wider senses) between the very moderate religious and the nonreligious on the opposing side (how sad that I can put it thus). My gut feeling, based on too little actual evidence, is that a loss of religious beliefs makes it much easier to also see through the largely religiously motivated propaganda and history writing that helps perpetuate the current attitudes.

My dislike for religion in general might cloud my judgement of how important it is in this case, but it is nevertheless clear that religion is fundamental to this conflict, which would otherwise surely have been settled locally and long ago.

@technoviking

This is how people like 'u' make things look ugly by taking a single verse without knowing its meaning.

Slaves thousands of years back were treated brutally, especially in ancient Rome and Egypt. That is why even after so many centuries, our conception of slaves is of men and women carrying stones to the pyramids and being used up in the building process like mortar, or fighting wild animals in public arenas for the amusement of their owners. We picture slaves wearing shameful yokes and chains around their necks.

Still in Europe, women from Thailand are brought in as sex slaves but I assume you know about it.

Islam did not demolish slavery because of many reasons like - if they were not brought in as slaves, they would have been killed or sold and treated like animals.

Instead, Allah put some rules to follow -

" Whosoever kills his slave: he shall be killed. Whosoever imprisons his slave and starves him, he shall be imprisoned and starved himself, and whosoever castrates his slave shall himself be castrated". (Abu Dawud)

"You should know that no Arab is superior over a non-Arab and, no non-Arab is superior over any Arab, no white is superior over black and no black is superior over white. Superiority is by righteousness and God-fearing [alone]." (Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 411)

"Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case I advise you to help them. "(Bukhari)

And yes they had sexual intercourse with their slaves but not forcefully, as you can see above slaves were asked to give equal rights as their master and having sex with them was done by their will. Muslims were even allowed to marry their slaves if they wants to.

"…ye…may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands posses….wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dower…"[4:25]

Juwayriya and Safiyah Bint Huyeiy are two of the women who were captured in war and Muhammad married them later on

According to Quran if a slave asks for his freedom ,the believer is left for no other choice but to accede to his request and is also required to help him with funds in order to rehabilitate him as a free man.

A lot more can be said on this, please feel free to ask more questions :)

Muslims need to understand that they and their religion are not special. If I want to print the bible on toliet paper I will. If I want to print the Quran on toliet paper I will. I don't care what you think and I never wil.

I am waiting fir the usual Muslim claims that the Hadiths already quoted ( which show what sort of low-life Mohammad actually was) are "unauthentic."

Let's be clear about this - Mohammad, from Islams own Holy Scriptures, is obviously a crazed anti-semitic Charles Manson type of cult leader. He robs merchants, rapes captive women, sends out assassins to carry out the most brutal murders, punches his child-bride in the chest when she dares to argue with him, slaughters un-armed prisoners of war who have surrendered to him and throws himself onto the floor in some sort of seizure in order to receive "revelations" from Allah. All this is recorded in the Hadith.

He was quite obviously a charlatan. The big question is - how on earth can Muslims regard him as the Perfect Man?

@dave I am assuming you did not read my comment above about the quotes......

@ xcited

You are making my point for me. Thank you.

That it is just a book(s) written by a particular man in a particular time that is subject to the biases, weaknesses, prejudices, backwardness and context of that time.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It is not special and it is FAR from perfect.

Therefore, we have no obligation to pretend it is special, give it any undue adulation, respect or lenience and can say or draw whatever we feel like about it as we would any other work of historical fiction.

The book is NOT perfect just because the book says it's perfect over and over. Think for yourselves.

i wonder what is the end of this conversation

@ technoviking the books are strong enough to defend them self :)

by the way you dont know your life is decided by few books of Michel Foucault, Darwin and stephen hawking and few more why dont you ask them to prove them self .

and you have never asked about critiques of those books but Muslims debate about quran its interpretations and are more then just critical even are divided because of such critiques.

new generation of Muslims is very critical about science Vs Quran and Social science Vs Quran and this all discussion is output ... the end is that you are not willing to accept your ignorance infarct you believe it as bliss, your freedom of expression cant be criticized .

for example if all of those who support this vulgar kind of freedom of expression , i request them please send me pictures of your mother naked and on mothers day we will arrange an exhibition to raise charity for swinger and k9/pet clubs because they are minority and are oppressed in Sweden they cant live life according their free will. help them and my cause my email is yyyvxyyy@gmail.com

@yyyvxyyy

You joke, but ultimately all you have comes back to the book saying the book is true. Nothing else. Just think about it.

And again you misuse words like "science" to try to legitimize your blind faith in the book.

Darwin's theory is not "proven" by itself. It's been testably and continuously reinforced by the fossil record and again by discoveries in genetics in the REAL world.

The koran argues that it proves itself which is acceptable only to those with primitive stone age reasoning. There is a big difference.

You should simply admit that what you have is blind faith.

Stop grasping for legitimacy in the eyes of modern thinkers by pretending the koran/hadith are somehow going to be proven to be divine through some sort of twist of logic or science, because you clearly don't really understand what those things are and the difference between logically valid and fallacious arguments.

well !

when people use word science in such discussion they mean ethical and life believes of science , yes i am still student of science but this clarification will help you to understand general people perspective in their discussion:)

in evolution i believe AAT(Aquatic app theory), it is more real , yet not been proved but closer in Quranic interpretation of life, sometimes quran not just speak in symbolic language it state fact and many are proved but still i am student of Quran as well.

i am not joking, think about this freedom expression and a peaceful understanding of nature ,take care :)

Check this link out. The world is crazy

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/8970182/romanian-woman-a-grandmother-at-23/

@ yyyvxyyy

Haha, of course you believe in AAT which is more fake pseudo science and has no supporting evidence for it...

Why not believe in Harry Potter too while you're at it? It has the same amount of evidence as AAT and the koran but it's at least more entertaining.

This is why the Middle East is so intellectually unproductive. Childish superstitions, irrationality and fantasy are passed off as "knowledge".

1.5 billion Muslims and only 2 scientific Nobel prizes. You are living proof why.

This why the only thing productive coming from the Middle East is the oil you can pull from the ground while the rest of the world is busy using ACTUAL science and reason to create medicine, technology and prosperity through intellectual achievement.

I have some magic beans I can sell you guys while you're at it. The beans are magic because they're magic beans.

Ha, Boyfriends and other islamists here apparently claim that one of the wives of Mohammad was not 9 (married at 6 and given to Mohammad at the age of 9) based on some blogs and "some" scholars who claim that she was actually 19...

This is amazing how far islamists are ready to go to defend all of the horrors that are related to this as if religion.

Hey, boyfriend - I hear that muslims do not hang gays, but fit new ties on them instead...

Some also say that Mohammad did not fight at all, but he convinced everyone who opposed to him. I hear also that Jihad is not something muslims do and that suicide bombers are zionist invention.

I also hear that the situation of women among muslims is much better that the situation of women in Scandinavia, muslims have won 4000 Nobel Prizes, invented all current processors and are the inventors of semi-conductors and leaders in nano-technologies.

Of course the freedom of all muslims to choose could be seen from Lybia to Bahrain (some scholars say that they invented democracy).

@truthworthy

So Mohammad TREATED her 9 y/o wide nicely and therefore it is OK to do her? Excellent.

As I said - there are NO MODERATE muslims.

All of you justify murder of children (because in suicide bombing only OTHERS are guilty and brought it upon themselves), sex with children (if one is tender with the kid), killing and burning if disagreeing, eliminating minorities since it is more moral to kill them than to let them be etc. That is why it is not even a religion, but a pure nazi supremacist ideology, conveniently spreading under the safe name of "religion" .

@ Uncle: look at the facts, who is abusing marriage system....after living together for couple of years before marriage....you have lowest marriage rate but highest divorce rate. S***** are hooked up on security when they go in the kitchen for cooking, they wear fire-proof jacket. when they get on a boat they wear parachute, when they ride bi cycle they wear mammal-sized plastic knees, when they go in shopping centers on electric stairs they wear safety belts but when you go in their home you'll find a very detailed prescription in bathroom's wardrobe how to commit suicide.

20:12 March 16, 2011 by truthworthy,

@ technoviking where in the Quran does it say, Muhammed married 9year old? please quote the verse."

It is clearly stated in the Sahih al-Bukhari hadith that he married her at the age of 6, NOT 9, and had SEX with her when she was 9.

He was 54!!!

Sahih al-Bukhari (Arabic: صحيح البخاري‎), as it is commonly referred to, is one of the six canonical hadith collections of Sunni Islam. These prophetic traditions, or hadith, were collected by the Persian Muslim scholar Muhammad ibn Ismail al-Bukhari, after being transmitted orally for generations. Sunni Muslims view this as their most trusted collection of hadith and it is considered the most authentic book after the Qur'an.[1][2] The Arabic word sahih translates as authentic or correct.[3]"

"By the way, I dont see anything wrong with the marriage between the prophet and Aisha, it was regular practice in Arabia that time for girls to marry at that age and there is fundamental physical and mental difference between the girls of today and the girls of that period."

Bullsxxx, mentally she was still playing with dolls, and give us the scientific evidence that they were physically different.

"Of course I know this statement won't satisfy the hatred-hungry bigots. So f*ck yourselves."

Speaking of hypocritical "bigots", here's a collection of over 400 bigoted quotes, directly from your koran.

Enjoy.

"Intolerance in the quran"

It will remain legal only as long as Shariah Law is not established. Under Shariah Law it is an Insult to the 'Prophet' and to Islam, and therefore a capital offense.

Say what you like about paedophiles, but at least they slow down when driving past schools!

Really love?

Muslims have a lower divorce rate? That definetely proves a much higher moral

values...

Of course that in Islam, a woman is a slave who will be stoned to death if seen

outside her home not in a company of her husband, has nothing to do with it.

Surely the fact that a divorced women with kids cannot sustain herself in your tolerant countries, plays no role...

Of course the fact that a woman is a worse outcast than a gay person in the lands of Mohammad is not of importance.

I am really glad for you that you do not divorce your slaves so often. High morals

in action indeed.

But you know what? Let's check the statement about suicide rate:

1 Lithuania

2 South Korea

3 Kazakhstan (oops, 70% muslim)

4 Belarus

5 Japan

6 Russia

7 Guyana

8 Ukraine

9 Hungary

10 Sri Lanka

.

26 Sweden

Well, well... Interesting.

Lets look at "Happy Planet Index":

1 Costa Rica

2 Dominican Republic

3 Jamaica

4 Guatemala

5 Vietnam

6 Colombia

7 Cuba

8 El Salvador

9 Brazil

10 Honduras

.

81 Iran (Muslim)

83 Turkey (Muslim)

110 Lebanon (Muslim)

121 Sudan (Muslim)

123 UAE (Muslim)

Oh, blimey... Not only religion of peace, but also gives so much happiness!

Throw in mass murderer with pedophile, ...... you have the complete package.

@ Uncle

But all of those stats are part of a vast Zionist conspiracy to hide the true success of the "perfect system" Islam creates across the world. ;)

All the mountains of evidence of violence and poverty and misery are irrelevant because the koran says Islam is perfect so it must be lies.

And women are happier staying at home and being servile. They want this. 500,000 Western women just converted to Islam yesterday, didn't you hear in that youtube video?

Also, the Koran cures cancer because of it's scientifically proven mathematical secret codes. Don't ask how, you won't understand.

Now acknowledge Islam is peaceful or die.

@technoviking

Of course... I mean there are amazing facts in front of us.

First there is a fact that Koran is saying that everything is great and beautiful under Islam.

If it says so, then it is a fact, right? Otherwise it would not say so, correct?

In addition, apparently islam is the fastest spreading religion in the world, according to some of the scholars here. I just saw on Youtube (supported by a blog of "Jihad on non-believers.com") that there are 5 BILLION converters into Islam every year.

Well, maybe they exaggerated a bit... But I already heard here that Israel kills 2 million Palestinians every year (with 4 million population in the territories), so why not?

Leave alone that the wonderful Koran forces women to make kids until they are spent at the age of 30, while the kids are not allowed to convert to any other religion.

Leave alone the fact that Nazism had a tendency to spread quite fast as well. In Islam case, the fast spread must be good, right?

I am sure that some "moderates" here would love to burn some of us slowly, until we acknowledged the peace and beauty in islam.

Eh, truthworthy? Or do you prefer stoning? How about skinning alive "Al-shabab" highly moral style?

I hear that muslims invented space travel, the periodic table of elements and most of classical music. This of course they did on their free time, when they were not busy inventing MRI, antibiotics and industrial revolutions.

Look it is simple if freedom of speech is only for those who do not insult then we would need no laws to protect it. but then we run into the problem of who says what is hurtful and not. it hurts me a lot to see a women covered up here in stockholm. you should be able to draw whoever no limits. Bush, Obama, Kings, Queens, Jews, Jesus, or mohamed.

the point is the quran is sopose to be perfect if it say she was 6 when they married and had sex when she was 9 then there it is. how many countries allow grown old men to marry young girls under 18. why do they allow it? is it because mohamed lived without sin so whatever he did is ok for all or us to do right? every single muslim country allow this based on the quran.

the big problem here is when the muslims come here they do not want to be western. they do not mix well. marry outside the religion, force marriage, it 2011 no reason for forced marriage dress like they were at home, then why come to the land of devils not stay in the middle east? i think ALLAH hates you look at all your muslim countries nothing but proverty, war, rape, murder and so on. you can hang for blasphomy in 2011 it crazy town. Islam is not a religion its a idiolgy like nazi's. you admit this yourself islam is a way of life in all manner gov., eating, drinking, and the list goes on.

WWW.Jihadwatch.org

@rationalperson:

Mind it, you can say countries ruled by islamic law. As I stated, misuse of any law has been the practice by many people! There are many other countries, that are not ruled by islamic law and even then such practices are followed. Like rapes, killing, and other stuff.

Islam binds you as muslim, not as a religious follower, but like all other religions, into a good human being, which is the focus of every religion! You can not change the words of koran, true, but you have to map the words to current times.

I have said this again and again, blaming any religion is simply wrong! You can blame it's followers for not being upto date, but not the religion itself! Its just like saying that countries with democracy, invade other countries (like US). its a wrong conclusion! Misusing something does not make the actual law bad!

Being born a Muslim or Catholic binds you to that group of people without recourse to getting out without paying for the decision in some way or other. If you are a Muslim, then DEATH awaits you. Reminds us of Al Capone and Chinese Triada where you take the Deasth vow.

The Swedish Judge who made this landmark decision is a remarkably brave man and I stand up in salute to his integrity and morality. Europe and the World should produce more and more Judges like him who are not afraid of death threats so that Muslim women can find a glimpse of freedom and Muslim men have the opportunity of opening their minds to other vistas. Let us all salute SWEDEN for this noble Judgment. My own second most favourite country in the world is SWEDEN. May she be a BEACON to all Nations.

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