Religious conflict on the rise in Sweden: study

The report is only good for similar democrocies with an open society. But to compare Sweden to Libya obviously is incorrect. Sweden has been historically a Christian country. Thou Chistian by birth they are not religeous. Swedes (that I have met) are uncomfortable around people of strong religious convictions. Be that Christian, Muslim or Jew or many other religeons. So the conflict is the unreligeous Swedes and the people with strong religious convictions And the other conflict is the hates the people of strong religious convictions bring to Sweden from their home countries. So I beleive the conflict is not Muslim, Christian or Jew but the religeion created by man. So much war, hate, destuction in the name of religeon. Most Swedes do not welcome the hate that religeon seems to create and that is why they are not happy. Swedes are not hater they are lovers.

I am not so optimistic as 'countrysidedrive'. Although, I would agree with him/her on the issue that for most of the Swedes religion is not important, both their own, and at the same time the religious choice of a migrant as well, unless that migrant acts/thinks like a swede. IN this sense, swedish society is quite intolerant in a non-violent way when it comes obvious cultural distinctions . However, I must admit that, general approach to a migrant is 'to exclude' or to 'ignore' if does not act/think like us, but not beat/humiliate or any other open violence. In comparison with other european countries, Sweden perhaps the most secure in that sense.

Swedes has a massive cultural blind spot and they aren't willing to address it: Sweden is a society that demands conformity to the Swedish way of being. This cultural orientation often demands you drop notions you may have acquired elsewhere about how to approach a problem in favour of their way because they believe their way is better. If you ever work in a Swedish owned company, note the amazing democracy practiced in decision making. There is group buy in on almost every decision. The problem being that a company isn't a democracy and you can literally grow old waiting for a Swedish business man to make a move. This demand is imposed upon Westerner and non westerner alike. And despite the flaws you point out to them, they will be stubborn insisting their way is better.

That's at the heart of this idea. Sweden his happy with it's cultural orientation and in this case it's being secular and if you choose to not adopt their position then you'll find yourself ostracised. They want conformity not assimilation.

Swedes need to grow a wiener and start being proud of their nation and their culture. celebrate your national day, be proud of your accomplishments. EXPECT people to integrate if they get the honor of living here. Honour Killings, Suicide Bombings, Female Circumcision all new and wonderful words in the Swedes growing vocabulary.

Yes, the so-called "Honour Killings" (which bear no honour but disgrace) really turn people off.

I know the conflict the conflict we should be concerned about is religiuos and not economic. The line of tolerance is veing cross everyday. There too much racialmintolerance as well but it will take time to lead to conflict.

I've had a property here for 23 years and have lived here full-time for 14 years. Clearly, from the article and some comments above, I do not live in Sweden as these bear no resemblance to my area.

Swedish secularism can be very much the same as religious fundamentalism. With religious fundamentalism, people are expected, without question, to be totally subservient to an ultimate, superior, all-knowing authority, and directions for the only approved mode of behavior may be found in X holy book. In this sense, the quest for knowledge and growth has ended bc everything you need to know is outlined in X holy book. Follow the directions. Don't ask questions. Period.

Sweden often unfolds in this same way. The state is the ultimate all-knowing authority. People are expected, without question, to be totally subservient to this superior, all-knowing authority. Rules written by the state are the ultimate holy book. Follow the directions. Don't ask questions. Period.

This is especially evident within the medical community where physical illness is perceived as deviant behavior. Medical personnel do not work with their patients to understand disease/illness. Instead, the state has a finite set of illnesses/diseases which it recognizes. The state has a finite set of dictates as to how these illnesses/disease are "treated".

Medical discoveries, mechanics of illness, medicines, technologies, techniques, etc. that are happening beyond the borders of Sweden are ignored by the medical dictatorship. Illness/disease is seen as costly, deviant behavior punishable by death. Doctors often act as state executioners who dispense out-dated antidepressants to quieten the screams of the tortured and dying.

@fikatid

"Honour Killings" is a very sophisticated cultural device to prevent women from marrying outside an ethnic group. A defence mechanism developed by cultures that have seen alot of strife and seen many many armies marching across their lands throughout the millenia. And it is far from the only tool in their toolbox. High birthrate, zero trust in authorities, a forbidding sexual morality, strong feeling of togetherness, fatalism, low expectations, opportunism etcetera. Such cultures are extremely well adapted to the multicultural society. I expect them to thrive in this brave new world of ours. Do not dismiss them nor their increadible innovations just because you do not understand them. Humility in all things lets you learn and adapt.

As a matter of fact, religious conflict has been on the rise since the fall of the Soviet Union; however, it has increased strongly since 11 September.

In my opinion; from a social political and historical point of view, it's more natural for the world to be polarized, and if not in two poles, then many poles. Since WWII to the end of Soviet, the world had been polarized in two poles. After the fall of the Soviet, there is a vacuum in powers, and something has to fill the missed place of Soviet, historically religion can do the job, it has always been a wonderful subject and reason for human kind to slaughter each others. It can be used for the polarization of the world, as it has been used centuries ago.

I think most of Swedes are not rally religious, but like people around the world, they also have to find their place in a polarized world, find themselves in a kind of category.

Most of Swedes treated and looked at immigrants as second class citizens, not regarded to religions of the immigrants, at least not until 11 September (immigrants generally considered Svartkalle); but after this day, there has been an increase pressure on Muslims as terrorist and most of Swedes have started to look at immigrant as second class from religious point of view (immigrants as a Muslim Svartkalle!).

Yes there are a lot of russians blowing themselves up in the center of stockholm. Clearly the problem here is caused by the Soviets.

@skatty

Just out of curiosity, what is derogatory about svartskalle? It seems quite neutral when i look at it? Personally i would not be offended by being called blondskalle or lintott or rödlock or somesuch?

all religions are equally the same by default; a set of divine concepts, ideologies or retroactive rhetoric to mislead people. the context of a religion is tremendously wide, hence people can employ this parallel constitution accordingly to achieve certain goals that happen throughout the history none was for the people internist.

when people tell me that i am wrong according to what their religion suggests, it bothers the hell out of me; yet i can live with that. i can tolerate other's people way of thinking as long as they are not willing to enforce it on my lifestyle. the conflict starts when i have to do things that i don't want to do. here comes the civil law to protect my rights. developed concerns are on the rise if this law will come to a point that no longer valid; due to whether demographic change or any other catastrophic events. Politicians need to work their magic so people feel secured even when it comes to long term predictions. contrariwise, all regulations regarding integration are apparently designed to separate the society into segments ethnically, religiously or politically. therefore, it increases separation (ghettos). separation increases violence/apathy (the riots in London) and that will increase xenophobia (far right wing extremism). it is a well designed cycle to keep these three elements generating each other.

@jostein

Actually; the first time I heard it in Sweden, I couldn't understand what is wrong with it. You can consider the meaning something like "Niger" to a blacks, or "Packy" a racist word in UK to someone from Pakistan.

You see; the words themselves may not have particular harmful meanings in a dictionary; but in communication, same words reflect different meanings and aims. It depends for what purpose, and by whom the words are used!

If a Swede calls an immigrant "Svartkalle", the aim is to degrade the immigrant, because this word is synonym with degrading the immigrants in Swedish culture. If you call a Swede "blondkalle", it has the usual meaning of a person with blond hair, or not any meaning at all, because this word isn't a degrading signal in Swedish culture.

Interesting that the extremes in rise in violence were noted in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan and Iraq.

Countries that are dominated by the religion of peace.

Attacks against Jews and car burning in Rosengård also seem to be related somehow to this lovely religion.

Interesting tendencies. But I am sure that the ones who are guilty in this are them Jews, immoral atheists, immoral swedish females, gays and Lady Gaga.

Easy.

@jostein

"Honour Killings" is a very sophisticated cultural device to prevent women from marrying outside an ethnic group"

Yep, sophisticated more than Industrial Revolution! Nobel prize should be awarded to the nations that practice this celebration of sophistication.

Slavery is also an extremely sophisticated cultural device to improve the quality of life of the slave owners, as well as cannibalism is a progressive device for hungry people. Rape is a brilliant cultural invention that seeds the conquerors DNA in the enemies and burning alive witches is a scientific breakthrough that prevents spread of disease and non-professional doctors practice.

I wish we could bring more of members of these societies and embrace them in cultural sharing.

@Ole O Margarine,

are you saying that:

the reason behind climate change, wars, social problems, the disgraceful situation of the world economy, extremism, terrorism, xenophobia, middle east's chaos, riots, 14 trillion $ debt of the US, diseases, famine and planet x from 2012 all are the work of Muslims? o-0

is that all because muslims are having babies?

are you high? if so, recommend me some!

@skatty

True, up to a point. I believe the people who forbade the use of "svartskalle" thought the concept itself to disapear if they battered language. Of course it didnt, since language always finds a way of describing the world. The current word is "blatte" which seems alot worse, to me at least. But the PK police have given up the struggle by now so "blatte" it is. Its just kept out of the salons of the hierarchy. Or "invandrare" or "invandrarbakgrund" which is so hostile i wont even go into that. Lets have a minute of mourning for the relatively friendly word "svartskalle".

@Uncle

My command of english is flawed. I meant sophisticated as defined under point 4:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sophisticated

My mistake, sorry for that. Hope i made my point less obscure now?

19:40 August 10, 2011 by Ole O Margarine from AMERKIA.

Your "What they DONT tell us is that those births are to the Malignant Breeders who just ran across the border and are responsible for 85% of the births on native soil." is simply a pearl.

Your "Malignant Breeders" are, according to your racist outburst we the Mexicans who enjoy forking your stupid, silly, and emptyheaded countrywomen. Believe me, you sour margarine. If that would be the case, we would have already recovered what you stole from us thanks to a stupid Mexico-USA "Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo"; that is, California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

Well, let me tell you that throughout the history of the USA, Mexicans have have made s... of you in several ocassions. Our Pancho Villa invaded your country in 1916, killed some of your countrymen and returned safe and sound to Mexico.

And you know why we Mexicans have not forked more stupid American women? Because we were told that the majority were exactly like an old b... with the nickname of Ole O Margarine from AMERKIA

Multiculturalism is death.

Why cannot people see what is in front of their faces.

You invite millions of black muslims into Sweden and expect things to just 'work'?

Sweden: if you want to help people, invest in Somalia, don't bring them all to Sweden. It will be your own undoing.

"Religious conflict on the rise in Sweden". Well I never!

And it's always the Evangelical Lutherans against those Catholics, isn't it?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and with naivety.

@ Uncle

I disagree with your statements.

First learn Uzbekistan is not dominated by the religion of peace at all. It states very secular and they are afraid of being religion... But it is dominated by bone heads which tries to rule the country with the communism like way...

And the other countries Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq which their dictators are strongly supported by USA and other G7 countries...

Why we do not never mention France which forbid vail or Switzerland which forbid minarets!!!

Is this our tolerance...

or what...

Comparing with these countries, sweden has much better position...

@jostein:

You said:

"Honour Killings" is a very sophisticated cultural device to prevent women from marrying outside an ethnic group. A defence mechanism developed by cultures that have seen alot of strife and seen many many armies marching across their lands throughout the millenia. And it is far from the only tool in their toolbox. High birthrate, zero trust in authorities, a forbidding sexual morality, strong feeling of togetherness, fatalism, low expectations, opportunism etcetera. Such cultures are extremely well adapted to the multicultural society. I expect them to thrive in this brave new world of ours.

My comment is that this is Sweden. If whoever believes in honour killing, they should go back where they came from and see how "well adapted", how "sophisticated" and how rich their countries are. This practice is purely barbaric. I am appalled to hear that you described "honour killing" as a good thing. Well, I think facts speak louder than words. Question is that for those who believe in "honour killings" and think that it's "well adapted" and "sophisticated", why the hell are you guys here in Sweden as any of the western world would not welcome this type of barbaric ancient practice. It's better for those people to go back where they came from if "honour killings" are their things.

I don't know whether I should laugh or should pity your for your ignorance.

@ jomamas

Learn statistics first... There are approximately 300 000 muslim in Sweden and many immigrant from Africa are christian...

Why you have this contradiction... Other do not have right to come to sweden but you and other nazis can invade all over with you investments such as Ikea, Volvo, Scania or you can sell guns...

Even you do not know what you are speaking...

The fact is that European started to immigrate to other countries... they invaded the continents... Remember your own history (What English men or Swedish men do in America... ) before blaming others

@fikatid,

what is that??? good cop, bad cop???

first of all, jostein is a genuine Swede.

second of all, he was sarcastic!!

third of all, no one, here at least, is promoting for this sick behavior!

just another a tempt to label a certain ethnic group with another sick behavior. two German women killed their own children in a brutal way recently doesn't mean German mothers are child killers.

Honur Killing is just another civilised term for murder. Families often want their offspring to marry within the family, such as cousins. They also want to bring "worthy" matches from the old country to "civilised" europe or the Americas etc.

The problem with continual inner family marriages is the effect it has on the offspring. In the UK, it is considerd non PC to bring up, although it is true. Well let's throwup instead. Many children being born to those mainly from Pakistan is having a dire effect on the health of these children and if they survive beyond childhood and have children of their own, the problem worsens.

The medical profession here are deeply worried at this experience and try very hard, often without success, to force cousins not to marry. Human Rights and Equal Opportunities and all that. In adition, the National (or as it is today) the regional Health Service has to find further funding because of other peoples rights.

Religion = Conflict .... ' nuff said!

15:01 August 10, 2011 by canuk

Zaratustra has spoken. One more and you will be thrown to the garbage.

@fikatid

Well, in my comment, i did not intend to describe honor killings as a good thing. Nor did i intend to describe it as a bad thing. I merely looked at it.

I mean, for a culture to succeed in making it normal or desirable for a father to kill his own daughter, that is pretty radical? Some of these honorkillers have shown great sorrow for their child. Still they did the deed. How can this be? How did it come about? How long did it take to develop this practice? What is its function?

My uneducated and unscientific thought is that the practices function is to preserve ones own culture in a very hostile environment. For example, take the kurds who have this in their culture. They have been ruled by other peoples since time imemorial. And we all know that women favour status and position in their choice of partner. The kurds are still around? Probably due to cultural innovations such as honour killings? You know?

So, just brought up the thought, what chance does swedish culture have of making an impression on such cultures? They have developed the rocket science of preserving ones own culture. Extreme. Well tested. Advanced? I bet you a million dollars it took them hundereds of years to develop such practices? Who better to thrive in the multicultural society? They been there, done that, know it all?

Now, the kurds are just an example since fadime was kurdish. I also want to note that some of swedens most advanced intellectuals are kurds. Like for example the most civilized and brave of all of swedens journalists (ok, i know this says absolutely nothing but she really is extraordinary, by any standard). She had the guts and the integrity to puncture TWO major moral panics in sweden. To stop a stampede is no small thing. Something no other living swedish journalist can brag.

19:50 August 11, 2011 by jostein

"Like for example the most civilized and brave of all of swedens journalists (ok, i know this says absolutely nothing but she really is extraordinary, by any standard)."

I would certainly like to know who she is. Does she have a name? She is certainly a white pea in the pod

sfk

Wikipedia:

"Islam is by far the dominant religion in Uzbekistan, as Muslims constitute 90% of the population while 5% of the population follow Russian Orthodox Christianity, and 5% of the population follow other religion according to a 2009 US State Department release"

Good definition for "dominated"?

"And the other countries Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq which their dictators are strongly supported by USA and other G7 countries... "

I love the responsibility transfer. And North Korea is supported by China. Does it make it chinese responsibility that 10% of N. Koreans are in the working camps? And Sudan is supported by Iran. And Kuba - by Venezuela. So?

I hate this "we, the poor little third world are half mentally challenged and therefore we transfer the responsibility to the one who has diplomatic relationships with us"

BTW, Egypt and Iraq were also heavily supported by USSR when they were EQUALLY totalitarian. So?

Germany and Japan are also supported by USA, and in spite of that they do not seem to execute people on the streets. There is NO country in the world the is not supported by some other country.

From visiting Sweden and learning from a tour guide there, Christianity was forced upon Sweden by the Catholics. A sort of "join us or die" scenario. The vikings were forced to change to Christianity, some grew tired of the fighting I would imagine. Now this is what was told to me, so based on that knowledge, It seems odd to me that so many people would embrace religion with open arms when it seems to do nothing but breed hate, destruction, racism, and bigotry. Don't we have better things to accomplish than fight over peoples beliefs and ideals?

One undeniable fact, is that the rise in religious conflicts in the West, correlates directly with the influx of islam.

Make of it what you will.

@kaotik

Sweden switched to christianity the emerging central states of scandinavia needed scribes and bookkeepers, the church could provide it. Sure, it was top-down. But it answered a domestic need for greater unity.

However, religion in sweden predates christianity. The temple in old uppsala was probably the most important in all of scandinavia and might be a reason that sweden is called sweden rather than gothia or somesuch. Or Denmark for that matter.

Im not sure that religion was any better? Obviously people will feel better under a non shame based religion. But christianity had other advantages? People need never be taught violence, it lives within us already. Having a pacifist religion seems like a good idea, for those times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamla_Uppsala

re.: the comment of Addendum: Sweden sounds like a medical dictatorship, i.e. an authoritarian system, where the "therapeutic alliance" between the doctor-authority and the submissive patient tends to be authoritarian, with a democratic alliance being rather a rarity.

bcterry.

Agreed 100%. Not only in the west. Buddhist and atheist worlds in Asia also suffer from this influx. Africa is a historical (but quieted down) victim of islam and there is no country with more than 5%-10% muslims that does not experience religious (and other) tensions...

@jostein

I went to Gamla Upsala while I visited Sweden, quite an amazing place. From learning about how Christianity came to be in Sweden, I still find it hard to believe that so many decided to switch, but that's my thought, based on what I've seen through the world with regard to religion and how much trouble it's caused. I guess there needs to be a large separation between faith and religion. I often wonder why people fall into religion, why do you even need it, what good comes from it? Why can't people just enjoy life, get along with each other, stop judging and hating. Religion seems to push this forward through it's laws and rules, all made up by a human person, which con-volutes and clouds people's minds more than they should be already. Thanks for the link to Gamla Upsala, good times being over in Gamla Stan, I certainly miss Sweden!

@ Uncle

They can't stand the thought of equality, and not being in a dictatorial dominant position.

They simply will not stand for it, thus the conflict.

@kaotik

"Why can't people just enjoy life, get along with each other, stop judging and hating."

We were made that way, its got nothing to do with religion. Its about proving that we have better genes than others so that we may reproduce. Check out the classic qoute by Genghis Khan (Temujin):

"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them

before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see

the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp

their wives and daughters to his arms."

Incidentally, also known as the most prolific man in history. Which means we all have such tendencies, its in our genes.

SWEDEN is responsible for the rise of anti semitism.

Olaf PALME conducted an anti Israeli position and all the next governments have followed this way.

Even the Lutherian Church of SWEDEN !

Boycott of the Israel Sweden tennis contest !

Unloading israeli shipping during two weeks in MALMO !

And now the past of the Queen's father has emerged !

00:27 August 13, 2011 by Citoyen Philippe

Allons enfants de la Patrie,

Le jour de gloire est arrive !

Contre nous de la tyrannie,

L'etendard sanglant est leve !

L'etendard sanglant est leve !

Entendez-vous dans les campagnes

Mugir ces feroces soldats

Ils viennent jusque dans nos bras

Egorger nos fils et nos compagnes !

Aux armes, citoyens !

Formez vos bataillons !

Marchons ! marchons !

Qu'un sang impur

Abreuve nos sillons

@J.L. You are singing my favorite song.

My solution? Massacrez tous et que Dieu reconnaitra les siens.

@Citoyen Philippe

"SWEDEN is responsible for the rise of anti semitism."

That would point at swedes who are committing anti-semitic attacks. However statistics point at a society who loves to moan about intolerant swedes, but gladly and happily beats down a jewish grandpa on the street and express their love of gas chambers in a bus to a family of small children.

Statistically also, most attacks are committed in Malmö (the largest concentration of the "religion of peace" members in Sweden).

"That would point at swedes who are committing anti-semitic attacks.

However statistics point at a society who loves to moan about intolerant swedes, but gladly and happily beats down a jewish grandpa on the street and express their love of gas chambers in a bus to a family of small children. "

The stench of hypocrisy simply boggles the mind.

I am a lover of Biblical archaeology and have studied Israel's ancient history. I have some comments regarding the Israeli/Palestinian trouble which I hope will not be deleted, as one of my previous posts on the Jews was.

The Jews lived in Israel almost 2000 years prior to the arrival of Muslims in the 7th century CE. It was a reduced population the Muslims found because in 135 CE the Roman Empire stole the land from the Jews when Emperor Hadrian banned Jews from Jerusalem and forced them out in the Diaspora. He then renamed the land Palestine in order to cut off Jewish identity with the land. It took the Jews almost 2000 years to get it back.

Archaeologists are excavating to find the roots of King David and the beginning of the Jewish Kingdom, and they are finding many artifacts.. There are no Muslim artifacts prior to the 7th century--they didn't exist until then. Jews and Arabs living together in peace is the only solution I can see to this problem. I hope the Arabs will make the peace rather than wage a futile war.

Sweden works because its Swedish inhabitants largely comply with written and unwritten rules. Many invandrare do not comply and can therefore be viewed as a threat. I have spoken to a few (not a statistical sample, but a simple random sample) immigrants from Iraq and Somalia who have stated that they do not wish to become Swedish! They mean that they wish to accept the benefits of living in Sweden, but intend to maintain the social mores and customs of the countries from which they immigrated. Does bode well for a homogeneous, integrated, peaceful state!.