Published: 30 Aug 11 06:49 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/35838/20110830/
Several major Swedish newspapers have introduced restrictions to the comment functions in their discussion forums in an attempt to gain better control and limit racism, sexism and personal attacks.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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Your comments about this article:
The comments below have not been moderated in advance and are not produced by The Local unless clearly stated. Readers are responsible for the content of their own comments. Comments that breach our terms and conditions will be removed.
If newspapers' forums are in a mess, that is the fault of the newspapers which have allowed them to get that way. There is no need to close, or restrict forums. But there is a need to monitor them properly. A properly or improperly monitored forum, will speak for itself. Take a look back at some of the old forums about any contentious issue, here at the Local and decide for yourself if you think the Local's forums have been properly monitored.
I think we deserve an editorial on this issue. The chance of receiving one from the sphinx-like Local editor - 0%
It would be a good thing if posters on The Local would be forced to use their real identities, rather than hide behind pseudonyms to post abusive and racist remarks. There are too many such posters on this forum, although it has got better of late.
On this issue everyone working in the local would need to take a long hard look in the mirror first.
As for your moderation of the forums and comment sections.
It is very clear that that people are close friends of at least one of the moderators on the comments section and that extremism is encouraged.
As for the content of your so-called stories. There is a Neo-Liberal bias in your reporting as shown by your special features and who you quote. You encourage racism with your headlines. You encourage zenophobia. You always refer to monetary values in dollars, yet the dollar is not used in Sweden or Europe. The largest currency that is nearby is Euro's. You constantly aim everything at narrow minded, biggoted, right wing posters from the USA.
As I said previously, you really need to look in the mirror.
People should move away form sites which censor.
Readers can ignore extreme comments and dont need the media to act as nannies
PS. Stop bashing Americans. Just as in any country, you have 10% racists. The difference in the US is that hate and bigotry will always be stamped out. Where as in Europe and Middle East ,Racism is on a visceral level and will take another 50 years to be wiped out.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/08/27/305953/anti-muslim-blogger-pamela-geller-lashes-out-at-islamophobia-report-pile-of-dung-masquerading-as-research/
Otherwise, I believe in freedom of speech and opinion. To often you see replies deleted, because they express an opinion about for example african-american people and it gets automatically associated with racism. Regardless of wether that person doesn't like those people due to their race or simply because of the way they act.
Swedish publishing law is worth revisiting -
As it stands if a forum is moderated in advance the publisher is legally liable for everything written.
If a forum is moderated post factum then there is some leeway from this legal culpability and rests more on intent. That is why openly racist forums and blogs occasionally get pulled up to account even if they don't moderate in advance.
It is also the reason why the likes of SD's Kent Ekeroth have allowed comments to be published on his blog. Previously only his Islamaphobic, sorry "invandringskritisk", fan club slipped through the net.
All posters claiming freedom of speech behind a pseudonym. Firstly, freedom of speech does not give anyone the right to slander others or to be subversive. The on-line postings and blogs by people and groups with an Islamophibic message where the direct cause of the actions of the Norwegian madman Anders Breivik. He believed the lies, innuendo and subversive writings he read on the internet, and became so convinced that it was the truth that he killed 77 completely innocent people.
The right to freedom of speech, also carries with it the responsibility to be factual,and to take the responsibility for the results of what you say or write. How many of the posters here on TL would ever write what they do, if they where posting under their own real identity, under which they could be prosecuted for malicious slander or inciting a riot or race hatred.
Any journalist or newspaper, has to ensure that what is published either in hardcopy or on-line is verifiable as do Television broadcasters. Why is it some people think that they can sit behind their computers and make comments on those same articles in the press and write what comment they like with no comeback or any form of moderation?
With the expansion of the Internet has come a vast expansion of people blogging and on-line press together with forums that people use to disseminate their own views and concepts. I believe that if you have something to say that you believe is pertinent then you should also be prepared to put YOUR NAME to it, not hide behind a pseudonym.
I agree with "lets keep a public face and privately we think different".
But this is "hopefully" not about censorship, it should be about discussing issues with respect and civility.
There is a big difference between saying "Islam is a pedophilic religion" and saying "I dislike everything Islam stands for". One is an insult while the other is an opinion and a starting point for a conversation.
They will become more harmless, for sure...
I'll defend a racist any day if that means i get to keep my rights and free speech.
Think about it, next time they could censor you for having a despised opinion or using a certain word.
Too bad any euro country does not have the first amendment.
A healthy democratic person will defend the right of expression of opposite viewpoints. That's how a healthy democracy works.
sure - discuss things with respect and civility but I dont want some faceless person deciding for me what is respectful and civil. Let me decide for myself. Let me decide if I think they a racist or whatever views. Let me decide if I want to engage, let me decide if I want to counter a racist view.
I am not sure about your examples though! If someone just made a statement like your first it is pretty pointless. If they explained why they thought that it may be an opening debate.
Actually if someone said the second I would think they were an idiiot and less likely to engage!
It is a sad world that we cannot look at what we all have in common for wherever you come from and whatever religion if any there is a lot more that we have in common than things we dont but in general we all focus on the things we dont mainly I guess because ordinary people dont set the agenda politicians or 'leaders' do to try to retain the control or power they think they have.
@Rick Tracy, wannabe detective,
So that you can indulge your habit of stalking of other posters even more than you have been able to do so far?
Me stalking?
Coming from the wierdo who stalks me and others, posting comments about posters who have crossed you and of course being the big brave commentator, while hiding behind your pseudonym. You are just pathetic, why not crawl back under the rock you crawled out of and get a life.
Groupthink demands conformity. It cannot tolerate being challenged.
"The on-line postings and blogs by people and groups with an Islamophibic message WHERE (he means "were") the direct cause of the actions of the Norwegian madman Anders Breivik. ...how many of the posters here on TL would ever write what they do, if they WHERE posting under their own real identity."
Where- adverb. WERE-verb
I chose to point out only the where/were confusion.There is much more. But that's OK. The grammar serves to distract from his lack of logic.
This and intimidation campaigns are very much a part of the same story. There are very good reasons that pseudonyms have been adopted down through the ages
It's evil that lurks behind the 'civility' facade. Don't be fooled.
Isn't it silly to see radicals complaining of being victims of other radicals; a messed up equation of conflicted rights. a group of people think they have the right to abuse others and these of others think that they have the right to shut those of the first group!! now, come and figure it out! who has more right to compel it on that of other with less right?
Instead of making your usual sniping at other posters, how about making a comment on the subject of the article?
Oh sorry, forgot, you have no original views of your own, so resort to the pathetic personal attacks as usual.
Now the ignore button goes back on, as you have NEVER made a comment worth reading and seem incapable of doing so in the future
Shall i do it, or does someone else want to tell him?
Also,can someone please explain to me what the heck a "troll" is? I always knew about the fairytale trolls that live under a bridge and those cutelittle ugly troll dolls with the wild colored hair, but I am relatively sure this is not what posters are refering to. Just curious.
And, in case someone from "the Local" is reading this, are there "Midweek Revellers" or " Gallery" participants who are NOT buxom blondes, busty babes, making out girls etc.? It would be nice to see some guys or even couples (other than teenage girl couples) maybe even some middle age or elderly revellers out and about? There are more people enjoying each week in Sweden other than hot young girls.
As for the grammar, aren't we getting a bit petty. Everyone is fallible and makes typos etc. Mine are horrendous as I have bad eyes and a black keyboard. I would think the content of the posts should be the concern rather than spelling or grammatical errors.
You saw it first so you have the right to tell him !!
@jacquelinee Read all about trolls
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-internet-troll.htm
hahahhahahhahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahah
Good one!
I prefer, when calling me names, that you use the correct spelling "weirdo" (since you have posing as the language police here, I permit myself to correct you).
#24. Ricky again. Of course I have no original view on this. Voltaire said everything that needs be said on the subject over 200 years ago.
Please make it quick and painless. I don't want to see poor Caps.lock suffer.
There have been times when someone, who holds an opinion different than mine, has written an excellent post and given me pause to think.
I believe this is called discussion.
A translation for those not familiar with swedish media:
"Swedish establishment silence dissent"
Right wing bloggers had nothing to do with the radicalization of Andres Breivik. That's just what they want you to believe. You can download his manifesto and read for your self. The man is mad, no question about that but don't believe everything the swedish main stream media say. They have their own agenda too.
This is more serious than it at first seems. What the Swedish establishment are signalling through their state subsidized media is that hence forth open debate on immigration is verboten, not that there was much to start with.
The liberal establishment unwittingly have some similarities with Islamic fundamentalists, which ostensibly at least are their opposites. Not so.
Islamists say you can say and do whatever you like as long as it doesn't conflict with the word of God. And what is the word of God? Well, it's anything Islamists say it is, ie their word is their licence for tyranny. Right now in parts of London that means muslim women are attacked if they don't wear head scarves and gays are attacked, for well just looking gay, not that the Koran calls for this, just the local Islamists.
Similarly the liberal establishment preach that you are free to say whatever you like as long as its not "racist". And what is racist? Well, its anything they say it is. But making any mention of immigration is likely to out you on the wrong side of their 'open free speech society', as indeed are a whole host of other related subjects.
This shows that the Swedes have learnt nothing from the sickening tragedy of Utøya. Anders Behring Breivik argued the reason he turned to violence was because there was "no other choice". All debate in Scandinavia, he said, had long since been either shut down or neutered and censored in such a way as to render it meaningless.
The Swedish establishment seem determined to prove Breivik right.
The UK went down this same path in the 1990s and it led to David Copeland the so called London Nail Bomber of 1999. In the last few years the establishment has backed away from closing down immigration debate recognizing that censorship doesn't solve anything. There have been no further Copeland or Breivik style attacks..
Nicely put , but sadly -- in the end to no effect.
Of course censoring these people only leads them to undemocratic paths and makes them even more alienated and angry, in their mind with no other choice then a violent one, an undemocratic one.
But i don't think people who apply this censorship really care, the have their agenda and anything hindering it must be silenced, i don't think they really care about consequences as long as they get their way.
A healthy democracy is one that supports the right of expression of opposite or unpopular view points.
Or in a country that allows a few pc elitists that are trying to impress the world, to do and say things that a majority of the citizens disagree with.
Lastly, not in a country where people are looked down on for being different, for speaking their minds, or for having an opinion that goes against the flock mentality says they're supposed to have.
You can't claim freedom of speech while at the same time censoring everyone that doesn't agree with you, or says what a lot of people are thinking but afraid to say. It doesn't work that way.
Just because someone has an opinion and says something that goes against the status quo or what is currently deemed pc, doesn't make it hate speech.
Hate speech is something all together different and when people throw the term around to silence others of differing opinion or to further their own agenda it takes away from the victims of real hate speech crimes. Just my two cents.
There is nothing wrong in having views, and speaking them, that differ from the establishment. If you have views that you believe to be correct and wish to expound them, then do so.
But if you are so fired sure that you have a view that should be listened to, Do so using your REAL identity and do not hide behind an internet pseudonym.
Stand up and be counted and speak out if you think that it is not illegal
All the posters here bitching about censorship are ALL hiding behind a pseudonym. I wonder why?
@ #27
Obviously "The Local" is not reading posts (or does not really care) Once again (yawn) "This Weeks Finest" (yawn) are another couple of young girls (yawn) making out again (yawn). Really, as cute as everyone is, it is getting a tad stale. Can we change it up a bit? We realise that whoever is doing the layouts for "Highlights in Sweden" obviously is a virile person (probably a guy)with certain "preferences" of what is a highlight, or "Sweden's Finest" to him/her/ them. But in all fairness to Sweden, there are many, many other very fine things about this country that could be focused upon on a rotating basis other than just some random teenage girls making out. Come on now "The Local" at least put a couple of guys making out, or some hetero couples or maybe "Sweden's Finest" could actually be a Swedish citizen who contributes something to this country, community, and it's readers other than a set of glands, a muscle group and a tongue. Really, (yawn) getting a bit boring.
This means that the small group did what they did because the bad tone was not punishable, so do not blaim anybody.
As far as identity is concerned, I have always signed with my name. I have nothing to hide and nothing to lose by writing what I think about something. But I do not like those who hide behind a nickname and they enjoy insulting others and me. I really love cowards; for me, they are the scum of the earth.
I enjoy good commentaries and I find them often at The Local. That is the reason I do not leave the site forever
Newsflash: That's not free speech.
This thread is disturbing.
It's not as you seem to believe so that they can all go around spouting hate speech screwing with people either. They do it because it's common sense to put as little personal information online as possible. There are news stories all the time about bad things happening because people aren't careful with their personal info.
@Streja
I meant things like saying healthcare is great and that the immigration policies are working etc. There are more of course, but those two are the most common ones that I hear and read about from Swedes. If you speak to an average person on the street you usually hear a way different opinion about it than the what the government is saying. Sorry if I wasn't clear and btw, that's not something that only happens in Sweden so please don't take it that way.
"All the posters here bitching about censorship are ALL hiding behind a pseudonym. I wonder why?" You wrote.
Well, Ricky the Tricky, let me tell you once and for all that I am one of the first ones who never hid behind a pseudonym. Now, you are following me, that is if Ricky the Tricky is your real name and not a pseudonym and that I am one of the many who complains about the insulting style some have, including you.
Your "ALL hiding behind a pseudonym" is nothing more than one of the many lies you have posted in this Internet Website.
You are one of the many who enjoys attacking others for no reasons at all; just for the sake of provoking answers.
Well Ricky! Enough is enough and, if you enjoy your position I believe you have as a spy for The Local, that is up to you. I only request that you delete also some of your own posters so nobody notices who is acting on behalf of The Local.
Believe me. I am not the only one who has analized what you write and how you write. You know, if someone quacks as a duck, swims as a duck, has feathers as a duck and eats like a duck, he must be a duck.
And please, just please, do not comment in your "sarcastic" way of doing your so-called "comments" what you just read. Just swallow it and start behaving like the "intelligent" person you claim to be and not as the spoiled brat you have shown to be.
Amen.
Yes Rick, we understand the issue mate thx, (i.e. one should should be truthful and upright, and if they are then they need fear no backlash from anybody even tho' they posted under their own name right?) Wrong.
Suppose somebody left a truthful opinion of theirs, that another reader of the local disagreed with to the point that they went after the person who had posted under their true identity. How is that person using their real name protected? It is not for negative reasons that a person is allowed to post under an alias. And history is full of public correspondence, written by men and women under an alias that was for the benefit of the people. Had their true identities been known......
But perhaps you did not consider that Rick. Truth to tell mate, your sense of entitlement at this site is getting a bit old.
it's very important that any opposition is vilified
The more people who object, the more important it is we clamp down on dissenters
@JL Belmar
Amen.
I added and R.I.P. hoping that Ricky the Tricky did not think he was Jesus and comes back in some three of rour days, but my post was deleted. Guess by who. I give you one name to choose.
So, this new policy is in essence a censorship policy designed to tamp down criticism of the proponents of multiculturalism for the sake of multiculturalism to the detriment of pure Swedish culture. And criticism of moralizing do-gooders in government who actively seek to deconstruct European cultures. Because they are self-haters who apparently think European culture is somehow inherently evil or something.
That is, it is perfectly acceptable to criticize Scandinavians, Europeans in general (except for the EU), Americans, Australians and English speaking people, it is not acceptable to criticize people from the Middle East, Africa, Asia or anyone that is from what is termed "developing" countries no matter what they may have said or done..
Remember that and you'll be OK. Better yet, confine your criticisms to the United States in general and George W. Bush in particular and you will never go wrong.