Published: 9 Sep 11 12:35 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/36044/20110909/
The terror attacks of the September 11th, 2001, which claimed nearly 3,000 lives, rocked the United States, but also had a profound effect on Sweden. To mark the tenth anniversary of the attacks, The Local has talked to eight Swedes and Americans to ask how the attacks affected them.
Olle Wästberg was stationed in New York as Sweden's Consul General between 1999 and 2004. He has also served as head of the Swedish Institute and is currently the coordinator for the 100th anniversary of the birth of Raoul Wallenburg in 2012.
Lena Ag currently serves as the head of the Kvinna till Kvinna Foundation, a group which supports women's organising in conflict regions and which Ag helped found in 1993. She has also worked as a communications advisor at the European Commission for Commissioner Margot Wallström, as well as in the Swedish Ministry of Justice, and for Greenpeace.
Peter Dahlen is an native of Delaware in the eastern United States who moved to Sweden in the spring of 2001 and served as President of the American Club of Sweden until 2007. Prior to moving to Sweden Dahlen studied and worked in Washington, DC, serving as a professional staff member on the US Senate Committee of the Judiciary.
Jaleh Taheri is a native of Washington state in the western United States who received a masters degree in 2010 from Lund University where she founded and now heads the Women for Sustainable Growth project at Lund's Center for Middle Eastern Studies.
Magnus Ranstorp is Research Director of the Centre for Asymmetric Threat Studies at the Swedish National Defence College (Försvarshögskolan) and one of Sweden's foremost experts on Islamic terrorism. Following the September 11 attacks, CNN named Ranstorp its principal terrorism expert. In 2003 he was invited to testify before the first hearing of the 9/11 Commission.
Beth Dacey is an native of Massachusetts in the eastern United States who has lived in Stockholm since 1993. In addition to contributing and blogging for The Local, she works as a copywriter/editor and intercultural communications consultant.
Tom Kelsey is a retired US diplomat who was stationed at the US embassy in Stockholm from 1999 until 2002. After finishing his diplomatic career in 2007, he moved back to Sweden and now serves on the Board of Directors of the American Club of Sweden.
Bitte Hammargren is a foreign correspondent for the Svenska Dagbladet (SvD) newspaper who covers the Middle East. In 2008, Sweden’s National Press Club (Publicistklubben) named Hammargren recipient of its major prize for her coverage of the Middle East. In March 2011, she and several other journalists published a book about the recent revolution in Egypt.
Where were you/what were you doing on 9/11?
Olle Wästberg: At home on Park Avenue and 64th Street in New York. I was preparing for an exhibit of graduation works from The College of Arts, Crafts and Desigen (Konstfack) in Stockhoklm. The students were just coming in when the planes hit the World Trade Center.
Lena Ag: I was at work when one of my colleagues yelled to say that something had happened in the United States and told me to turn on the television.
Peter Dahlen: I was in my office in Stockholm when an American colleague in our Frankfurt office called and told us to turn on CNN. We gathered around the office television and watched in stunned silence.
Jaleh Taheri: It was a normal day of my senior year in high school in Washington State. I was on my way to school when the news from New York started coming over the airwaves.
Magnus Ranstorp: I was on a train in the UK heading to York and was probably the last person to see the planes crash into the towers. I received a call from CNN seeing if I could return to London. I ended up briefing Christiane Amanpour, who was their foreign correspondent at the time.
Beth Dacey: I was in a lesson with a client so my phone was off and we had no other media input. After work I turned on my phone and heard a message from another American saying she was frantically worried about our friends in New York and all I could imagine was there must have been a storm like a hurricane. I thought she was overreacting.
Once in my living room I turned on CNN. The two towers had already collapsed at this point but I first saw the recap and images of the burning towers.
I stared at the TV until I saw the images of the two collapsed towers. I was in stunned silence and disbelief. I couldn’t process the reality of it and kept trying to convince myself it hadn’t happened.
Tom Kelsey: A colleague had heard a radio report and came rushing in to my office saying that we should turn on the television set that was sitting in the corner.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing on television, and thought that the plane crashing into the World Trade Center was a terrible accident.
When the second plane hit the towers, then we knew that this was an attack of some kind.
Bitte Hammargren: I as working as a reporter in the newsroom of Svenska Dagbladet. I got a phone call just after the first plane had crashed into one of the twin towers. The next second I was standing in front of a TV screen, so I saw the live broadcasting of the second plane crashing into the World Trade Center.
What was your immediate reaction?
Olle Wästberg: After a moment of doubt, I first thought of the group of Swedish students that regulary had class in one of the towers. Then I started to run to my office, twenty blocks south.
Lena Ag: Shock. I saw in real time how the second plane flew into the second tower and I saw them fall. It was a horrific experience and I immediatedly wanted to get in touch with my daughter and other people close to me.
Peter Dahlen: Horror, shock, and fear for my friends in the Pentagon and World Trade Center.
Jaleh Taheri: I was in complete shock. I thought something was wrong with the radio in my car and thought that it was some kind of prank. But then when I arrived at school and saw people sitting around TVs, dazed, confused, crying and bewildered, I realised that this was going to change our lives forever.
Magnus Ranstorp: I knew immediately what it was, that only Osama bin Laden was capable of carrying something out on that scale. Back in London, I had the feeling that the city was under siege. No one knew if more attacks might be coming. I was also hit with a feeling of depression when I later heard interviews with people who had lost loves ones.
Beth Dacey: After watching nearly all evening until after midnight I went to bed. I got up in the morning to go to work. It was a sunny morning in Stockholm and all I could do was look around me and wonder how the world could be still carrying on.
I don’t know if I expected everything to stand still but seeing “normal” all around me from my apartment on Söder, along Södermälarstrand and into the Kungsträdgården area I kept expecting life to have changed and it was overwhelming to see that life was just going on as usual.
Tom Kelsey: At home that night, I was glued to my television, hoping for some good news, only to learn of the full scale of the attacks and the other two planes. A friend from childhood was staying with me for a few days and we both recalled where we were when President Kennedy was shot - another life-changing moment for us.
After a sleepless night, we reported for work the next morning and were briefed on what we all knew already, from watching CNN. The world had changed. Our world had changed.
Bitte Hammargren: Horror. At the time I was covering Swedish and EU political affairs. I immediately called the press officer of the Swedish Minister of Defence, Paula Burrau. She apparently got the breaking news from me.
The Minister of Defence, at that time Björn von Sydow, happend to be in a closed meeting with all the key ministers, political leaders and the Swedish king at the Royal Palace, a meeting of the Foreign Relations Committee (Utrikesnämnden). We learned afterwards that it took some time before anyone was allowed to intervene into that meeting to tell what happened in New York and at the Pentagon.
What impact did 9/11 have on your community/profession/group?
Olle Wästberg: One Swede was murdered by the terrorists, a 25-year-old named David Tengelin who worked in one of the towers on the 100th floor. Close to everyone in New York was affected of course, as were the Swedes there at the time. There was a gathering in the evening of September 11th in the Swedish Church in New York. I don't remember my worlds, but they were came from a state of chock, and from my heart.
Lena Ag: It's created a climate of fear that borders on distrust among people and groups. As a peace and women's rights activist, I feel my work fighting for peace and human rights has been made more difficult.
The developing optimism which infused the end of the last century, which culminated in common measures to eliminate poverty by 2015, came to an abrupt halt.
Peter Dahlen: For Americans and American organisations in Sweden it completely changed the tenor and tone of our events for some time. For example, we could not hold events at the US Embassy for a long time after 9/11. When we could resume hosting events there, naturally, the security was greatly heightened. Overall, and no matter where we held our events there were increased security concerns and a reluctance to widely publicise events.
Jaleh Taheri: There was a lot of fear and distrust. People were scared. Some people were depressed because they could not fathom that an attack like this could happen in the United States.
Hatred and discrimination against Muslims continued to increase each year after 9/11. It's a serious problem when one section of a society is so overtly hated and has become the token scapegoat for any and all political frustrations.
Magnus Ranstorp: 9/11 was a huge shock in Sweden, but there was still an impression that what happened in the United States wouldn't happen here. And the ensuing debate about the legality of the Iraq war muddled the issue here.
Beth Dacey: My home country and the country of my childhood and everything it focused on changed that day. If America ever had an innocence, it was lost on 9/11. Travel became something that was dangerous, Arabs and Muslims became the object of irrational fears.
People starting hating people who never harmed anyone. And if you were Christian before 9/11 but not active, you starting needing to allude to god in your life whether you wanted to or not. 9/11 removed non-religious people’s rights to not be religious.
Tom Kelsey: Almost immediately, flowers, wreaths and candles began to appear outside the Embassy gates, so many, in fact, that we had to move the makeshift memorial across the street.
I remember being stopped on the street in Stockhlom, a very unusual occurrence regardless of current events, probably by either looking like an American or being overheard speaking English, and having total strangers express strong sympathies and words of support.
Suddenly, I felt that we as Americans in a very safe city and country were exposed to unknown threats. I can't say that it was paranoia, but I do recall looking over my shoulder and into my rear view mirror much more often over the next several months.
Bitte Hammargren: I was about to start my new assignment as a Turkey and Middle East Correspondent of Svenska Dagbladet that autumn. I never had any difficulty filling up my working time after 9/11.
What impact did 9/11 have on Sweden/Swedish society?
Olle Wästberg: We were all Americans, at least for a while. Swedes went to to American embassy in Stockhoklm that night to pay their respects. A few days later, Sweden held a moment of silence for those killed .
In the long run I think Swedes have a tendency to forget. Even if the feelings in New York are more embedded now, 9/11 is still present in the city. But that's not really the case in Sweden.
Lena Ag: Sweden is a part of the EU and the international community and has clearly been affected by the war on terror. The EU quickly adopted a number of laws without enough transparency or democratic grounding despite it resulting in increased control of citizens.
Sweden also demonstrated it was ready to put human rights considerations aside to help the United States hunt terrorists. The deportation of Ahmed Agiza and Mohammed Alzery to Egypt are shameful examples of this.
Peter Dahlen: In the immediate aftermath, Swedes were extremely kind, caring and open. I still remember strangers in coffee shops, restaurants and shops expressing their condolences to me when they heard my accent and realised I was an American.
Jaleh Taheri: It's hard to say for sure, but I do know that hate crimes against Muslims and people from the Middle East have been on the rise since then.
Magnus Ranstorp: There was a different discourse here than in the rest of Europe for many years and from a policy perspective, Sweden was a bit late in bending the stovepipes of bureaucracy from a “need to know” mentality to a “need to share” mentality.
Swedes still have a hard time talking about the threat from Islamic extremism. The Stockholm suicide bombing in December 2010 was a huge wake-up call, but the debate is still extremely polarised and Swedes have struggled to find the middle ground.
Beth Dacey: Swedes witnessed for the first time the vulnerability of the US, which up until 9/11 seemed to have a standing image as invincible and indestructible. I think the US became "mortal" in the eyes of the average Swede from that date.
In many ways, that gave Swedes the opportunity to feel sympathy for Americans. The date made Americans more "human" to the average Swede. It also added to the “loss of innocence” path Sweden had stepped on starting in 1986 with the murder of prime minister Olof Palme. And while Swedes were still shocked by the 2003 murder of Anna Lindh, it somehow still played into a continuing acceptance of a harsher, crueler and less secure world.
Tom Kelsey: I think that recent events, both here in Sweden and Norway, have brought home the realisation that we are all exposed, in one way or another, to the actions of extremists.
Bitte Hammargren: Islamophobia grew in Sweden, hate crimes against Swedish Muslims have been on the rise and the Islamophobic Sweden Democrats have been riding on this wave.
From an international perspective, Sweden got drawn into President Bush's so called war on terror. For Sweden this meant crossing a red line with the deportation of two “terrorist” labelled Egyptians by a CIA plane landing on Swedish soil. The CIA flew them to Egypt, where they were tortured. Sweden was later condemned by the UN Committee against torture and the deportations put a stain on Sweden's reputation.
In your view, how has Sweden/Swedish society succeeded in adapting to a post 9/11-world? Why or why not?
Olle Wästberg: We still think we live in an idyllic spot in the world here in Sweden. But even with two political murders and one suicide bomber - it still doesn't seem to really change our mood in a deeper way.
Lena Ag: A main concern is that it's hard to get a handle on all the new laws that were adopted by the EU after 9/11 and which Sweden must adjust to. What are the long-term consequences?
The 9/11 terror attacks and the following war on terror has also led to a harsher climate in Sweden. We've seen how prejudice against Muslims has grown stronger, which affects many people's everyday lives.
Peter Dahlen: Sweden has succeeded in taking the necessary precautions and implementing heightened security measures without making the average citizen feel threatened or intimidated.
Magnus Ranstorp: One thing Sweden has been good at it taking a holistic view of the threat posed by extremism of all types and that the opposite sides often feed off of one another. It's important that we not be blinded by one and thus overlook the others.
But Sweden is like Japan, it's a consensus culture and no one wants to offend anyone else...it's a function of the Swedish model of inclusiveness which leaves us with an acute awareness that we shouldn't be stigmitising any specific community.
There are still people on the left who think that the threat of Islamic extremism is something make believe, while at the other end of the spectrum you have the Sweden Democrats who play on people's fears. But the debate about social cohesion and multiculturalism isn't going away. The question is how to manage it.
Beth Dacey: Sweden has managed to stay away from being overly paranoid even after suffering its own close call with a suicide bomber. Sweden has also stood stoically by its resolve to remain as open and democratic as it believes it should be.
Bitte Hammargren: Sweden is cooperating more closely with NATO, as we have seen in Afghanistan and Libya. These decisions are taken by the Swedish parliament, which is crucial. The NATO operation in Libya is solidly based on a UN resolution. But the ISAF operation in Afghanistan is so much more complicated.
In my view Sweden, needs to reevaluate the word ”stability” in its foreign policy. Turning a blind eye to human rights abuses if dictatorships were considered to be allies of the West or selling weapons to dictatorships does not mean supporting stability in the real sense of the word.
Looking back ten years later, how has 9/11 changed your view of the world we live in?
Olle Wästberg: Everyone lives in an environment with more risks. The world is a more dangerous place, and you feel it every time you travel. The big risk for prosperity and human compassion is that 9/11 started a development where nations have become more inward looking and more isolated.
Lena Ag: I feel the world has become a more insecure and hostile place after 9/11.
Peter Dahlen: I feel like the world is less secure -- wherever I am and especially when I'm in important buildings like the Capitol and near popular attractions that attract tourists.
Jaleh Taheri: The aftermath of 9/11 has shown me how destructive politics based upon fear can be in the United States, but also here in Sweden. We must ask ourselves where are the roots of intolerance and misunderstanding in our own societies. We must understand that human interaction and connectedness across the world is very complex.
9/11 also reminds me of how deeply interconnected we all are. We are all in this together and need to take the time to work together to make our world a better place for everyone in it.
Magnus Ranstorp: Islamic extremism is a real threat. If you ask people in the intelligence community, even though there may not have been any more major attacks, it's not because of a lack of trying.
One thing we've seen is that these things arrive in bunches, it seems and that the come with greater frequency and that no matter how much we prepare, they are extremely hard to prevent.
Beth Dacey: I’m more pessimistic toward a previously-held belief that we can all live in this world together and respect the diversity of different viewpoints.
Tom Kelsey: I feel that, as an ex-pat living here in Sweden that our post-9/11 world, and its security, requires the continuing cooperation of all peoples, and all governments. It's important to remember that We are many, and the terrorists are few.
Bitte Hammargren: I have become more cynical about Western governments. But on the other hand I think that the Arab spring, when ordinary people in the Arab world call for justice, dignity, accountability, transparency and democracy, gives a lot of hope for the future. The change will take a long time, but young people in the Arab world don't accept to be submissive to authoritarian regimes.
External link: Related photo gallery: How do you think Sweden was affected by 9/11 terror attacks? »
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If this has to be remembered, let it be remembered as the unspeakably cruel and calculated lengths that the US Government and its cronies will go to to scare and intimidate its own people and people all over the world, into supporting war and destruction to protect Tyrannical regimes whose only goal is to look after themselves and disregard everybody elses right to peace and freedom.
What a load of sappy nonsense that is.
What I wrote in, as nicely as possible way, was my philosophical neutral views with examples of Somalian pirates and Pakistani, Indian, or Arabian /Semitic religiously totally blind murderers etc. that are the only threats and there are no more terrorists today in Africa unless a faceless money greedy opportunist groups or IAH's of the East and West may generate again some within a few days only just like bacterias.
The growth can be too fast if there was some suppressed anger against some kind of past injustice! The more stronger anti-bacterial-type treatments are tried to be applied against, the more terroristic resistance will grow. If left alone, the vengeful bacteria-type anger or products of dysfunctional mental sickness slowly get vanished automatically; that means: the criminals do not have to be killed but with the time their minds will cure, if awareness of wrong-doing for these unwise guys is generated by Medias like you (Yahoo's digital News, other good sources of news, even Facebook etc.) and Positive healthy thinkers /writers like me and others with neutral philosophy.
Please note that there shall always be some killers here and there just like recent Norwegian, US born ones that are committing heinous crimes too, but if the developing Medias of China, India tomorrow start to color the above normal criminals of the West and the bombers in the East as terrorists hired by the West (which cannot be true facts), then all of a sudden. newly rich and emerged some ego blind leaders of the East may start, just like Hitler did start wars for dumb reasons of controlling then business situations in 1912 and the killings of millions of good innocent public continued for years.
We, the West in 2001, unanimously agreed or not; angry US head: the Bushes impatiently ordered war of revengeful killings and by all means, especially wanted to kill Osama. b. Laden and up until now, total how many innocent soldiers and citizens of USA, UK, Canada, France, Italy etc. have been killed? The only benefited parties are Weapon and Oil dealers of the East and West and the final outcome of war for others in the rest of the world is nothing but painful memories.
The unwilling to perish humans suffered physical or mental pains of failed wishes at the very moment of their deaths and never to get back again and anywhere the lives they had right here on this planet Earth!
The playful Cosmic Creator that programmed human-sense of judging, is above humanly judgment of Right and Wrong (when natural disasters kill) but not any killer human; because in its mind conscience is programmed to be in normal balanced state with "50% Rule-Good or Bad" and again
No you weren't. I am, though. And to be perfectly honest with you, although we Americans appreciate your empathy, we know very well that when the time comes to fight, bleed or die for your freedom, we'll probably have to do it alone. That's OK because we expect nothing more from you than to stay the hell out of our way.
Finally, the world media will cover this rememberance to those who died on that day, but the big scandle is the Firemen, police and many others who sacrificed their safety and now it seems their long term health as many are reporting suffering frm cancer and many other diseases which relate to breathing in the smoke from the collapsed twin towers. Yet, it seems that they are being ignored or at best offered small amounts of compensation. That for me is the real story of 9/11...but hey why get in the way of Government propaganda of another supposed terrorist threat and remembering 9/11 when real people living/surviving today are dying as a result of their unselfish sacrifices they made to save people during and after the terrorist act!!
Africans and Jews have suffered the greatest persecution of all people for ages but Africans did not bomb WTC neither did the Jews but oil-rich Saudis who have no justification whatsoever for their actions other than "perceived" injustice.
9\11 forever changed my life and made me realize that all is not safe and secure in what we all think is our perfect world. It's a page in history, let's remember it as such and mourn for the families who suffered through a great tragedy rather than trying to place blame, you cannot change history.
US foreign policy in Israel has no impact on the average muslim country neighbouring it?
At least you admit indirectly that the USA only joined the fight for Europe to defend it's own interests (there is a pattern here).
Those liberal attitudes might help build the bridges (real and metaphorical) that the USA likes to destroy. Afghanistan will only end through talks, not war, just wait and see.
How many friends of Bush benefited through the Iraq invasion business deals, it's all about keeping the USA economy ticking over whilst you indirectly rape and pillage the world. Sadly it's the troops and their families who have to suffer the cost.
If you smelled it for as long as I did, your posts might be different.
Two people from my block died there.
They never hurt anyone...think about it!
GH
I live in the northwest of the U.S. in a farming area of wheat fields. I am of, among others, swedish, scttish, and german decent. My wife is from Goteborg. I am a navy veteran.
We were entertaining her swedish cousin and her husband when 9/11 came. Although New York had seemed like a different country, 9/11 changed that. These are a few of the things I remember.
A friend's grandfather died in the midwest. He felt he should be there. Men with guns guarded bridges and roads along the way but they were helped on their trip by them. My four year old grandaughter said "I saw the plane hit the tower." We had planned to take a boat ride in the San Juans and finally did. A navy helocopter buzzed us and we waved. We were the only boat out there and felt guilty. I were was glad they were there. Our friends were to cross into Canada but the border was stopped up. The border guards helped them walk the three hundred yards to the peace arch. A flight of navy jets passed over as we stood in a minute of silence.
I have visited Sweden many times and can see the tremendous differences between the two countries. It is a beautiful area. I hope some of the commentors will reconsider their attitudes and instead put their strength into Sweden or whatever country they live in.
We in the U.S. criticize our country at times but will defend it as our own. I guess that is why so many people want to come here!
US killed 6000 Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan for their stupid war on terror!
Now tell me who has killed more Americans?!
We are all Americans but Americans have killed more of of themselves than anyone else!
They are harmless, tasteless and of poor nutritional value.
Being vegetable like, they don't really care about anything as they think the farmer will always look after them when the weeds of Multicult and PC begin to clog their roots and alien entities invade their space.
Bye Bye Sweden.
Your day is done.
Welcome to the Sharia
Unless enough of you have the courage to stand up and fight.
Allah was praised by everyone of the attackers. Taheri learned nothing in her Middle Eastern studies about Islam if she is surprised by an ever increasing hatred of Islam. Tolerance of an intolerant religion like Islam, is foolish.
By the way, lots of the people who died at the Twin Towers were not American, even some Muslims were killed there. Lets stop this celebration of death. All of the dead Iraqis and Afghans can't celebrate this dance macabre.
Oh yeah, I forgot, "God Bless America".
www.ae911truth.org
world911truth.org
buildingwhat.org
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_truth_movement
Who am I? An american, expat since '65, and resident in Stockholm since '68. I did two years military service as a officer in the Army, leading field tests of combat surveillance equipment. I designed a computer system for reporting progress on 3,000 construction line items in support of the Vietnam war. I did electrical design in Bangkok for USA B-52 bomber base. My credentials thereby are good as to being a patriot, a non-thinking one which was typical for that time.
In spite of that, I feel that George and Co. planned and executed 9/11. The evidence exists on the web for anyone to see. Detailed analyses refuting the possibility of the crashes/fires bringing down WTC by an Underwriting Laboratories engineer, Association of Architects and Engineers questioning the validity of the 9/11 Commission. The list is too long for here. But if you are open.minded; hopefully not a lover of conspiracy theories, you will find the info easily accessible. From Cheney's declaration, I paraphrase it: "The major next step in a necessary upgrade of our military capacity will require a major event, just short of war......" Don't have the quote at hand. That was said at a gathering about 2 years before 9/11 in a speech he held. And will round off with a reminder of Operation Northwood, signed by Lemnitzer and sent to JFK, whom then moved him from Chairman of the JCS to Europe. This was a false flag operation by US forces and agencies to motivate an invasion of Cuba,
Will end by blaming us all: for being easily socialized, taught obedience in both MIND and deed to superiors, and having built mental models since childhood, we are unwilling to take the effort to find facts and examine carefully their alternative meanings, which may tear down our comfortable models as a consequence.
My generation's hero, FDR lied about the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor. And LBJ lied to the public (and Congress) about what Vietnam would develop into, and what it would cost us, and how long it would take. And the most important thing that Obama has done is to show that racism and bigotry still reign-------along with the hidden wielders of economic power.
Is it so, dear fellow humans, that the profession of politics is not one of compromise as so often is said??? Rather it is one of deception using campaigns of lies. Such as the "hate the Hun" campaign which got us into WW ONE. Only now it is "hate the islamic terrorists"----or the muslims around them.
What we do and have done to cause such hatred which 9/11 was said to be an expression of, is another and very long history. Begin with Noam Chomsky, for example; and Daniel Ellsberg's "Secrets".
The US Government...not the citizens are a corrupt, self serving horrible bunch of people that in some scircumstances should be tried for war crimes.....but I don't believe that the US Government could have carried out such an operation without 1 or more people breaking their silence....I mean 3000 people died and much more in Iraq....and Afghanistan.......Governments make mistake after mistake...time and time again and so there is no way that they could have carried out an event of this scale without making lots of mistakes.
What ? Two years in the Army is supposed to give you credibility? I agree with you on the non-thinking aspect. Not much has changed, obviously You are someone in need of medication since your Reynolds wrap helmet seems to be malfunctioning. Call the VA. They might be able to help you in facing reality.
This thread has it all.
NYT this is not.
The bombing of the WTC has brought hatred against Muslims and their religion which is interestingly increasingly spread all over the world (despite the propaganda! you may google it if you like).
Of course, at least for me, there are political and economical dimensions of this. War nowadays is business and for the US and its allies to make business there should be war so more weapon production and more colonization (and more oil-control). The war against Iraq, Afghanistan and other places are just marketplaces for these war-makers called the US army. And those westerns who are blind then they should understand that the US has swallowed Arab governments making them slaves for their dollars. This is not "perceived injustice" this is a true and real domination that cause injustice and hatred. The proof is what we see now in the Arab world because of the revolutions. The US was a close ally to Mubarak, the one who has tortured his people, protected the agressive Israel, denied the rights of his own people and made half of them 40M+ poor, etc....the yemeni president who gave his family complete authority over Yemen is a close ally to Bush and many others.... Westerns, not in a general sense, lack some real realization of what happens in that part of the world. And lets not forget its also business for Osama bin Laden, I dont know why, but I am sure it is for a billionaire like him it sure is! He wanted maybe to be the Amir of Muslims by doing that who knows! So it is not Islam that has led to these bombing even if the bombers are muslims but greedy and colonization desires are the driving forces behind that.
Its a simple scenario to prove this: how could the US control oil in the world? They should control the middle easy? How can they control the Mideast? Invent something to occupy it? How can you occupy it? By something like 9/11. Ironically, they accused Saddam for that and occupied his country and now we talk about Osama bin Laden, do these people think others are stupid?
To sum up, for me, 9/11 shows the greediness of the west and the blindness among westerns. People should've looked at new ways to understand things. Islam was just a tool and it is a good tool because the planners know the mentality of Muslims (if those who know understand what I mean). And now people are stuck with that. OK what happened there was a tragedy JUST because people died, but what has happened in Iraq is also a tragedy, God knows how many million innocents have been killed.....
If you are a woman, for the sake of your Kindness,
If you are a men, for the sake of your Strengths,
If you are a theist, for the sake of your GOD,
If you are an atheist, for the sake of your Arguments,
If you are a gay/lb, for the sake of your Rights,
If you are a learned, for the sake of your Knowledge,
If you are a student, for the sake of your Enthusiasm,
If you are an engineer, for the sake of your Logic,
If you are a lover, for the sake of your Love & finally
If you are a human being, for the sake of Mankind
please, please, please pay 15 minutes of your time to watch this YOUTUBE video. (add the following at the end of youtube dot com/)
watch?v=hZEvA8BCoBw
Up until then they were quite content to turn a blind eye and in some cases even support terrorist fund raising operations in their own country.
What a different kettle of fish once it happened in their own backyard !
Hey MarshaLynn: You're my kind of American. I hope there's still enough of us to stop Obama in his tracks and restore America's economy and confidence. Vote early and often in 2012.
China will be the next global power regardless, they could raise and army bigger than the USA population if they wanted to. What they naval fleet slow grow too.
USA did not liberate hitler, USA forces were less than 50% of D Day, Hitler was already struggling against Russia, the USA know Russia was a longer term threat, hence the push to Berlin etc etc...
Oh, USA on nation to use Nukes on other people, harder a claim to fame.
The USA only ever kept it's OWN interest safe from the Soviets, that what it's always about. Be it, Europe, Iran, Korea etc.
It seems like when 3000 people die, America had it coming and should have seen it coming. When no one dies in Stockholm (dont consider an attempted mass murderer a person), it is an atrocity and completely out of the blue. Good comments guys.
Coalbanks, clearly this is off topic, but please check which countries export food. Believe it or not it is not the 3rd world. It is the first world countries, with the US at the top. No clue where you get the notion that 3rd world food is being sent to the first world, when it is exactly the opposite.
Los Angeles, California back in March, 1991... 10 years before 9/11. Now I know why Christ was so frustrated during his life time... He could see the lack of progress in the development of human compassion and understanding, despite great strides in technology and material possessions. What I see is the destructive power of religion and cultural.
I have no answer; only a yearning for a day when we "can all get along" regardless of race, creed, color or culture. Guess that's what the "after-life" is all about. Good luck, humanity. You're gonna need it!
The US govt. plotted the 9/11 which is black and while by the investigations performed by the scientists, architects and engineers. So, USA killed 3000 people on their on land and then killed millions in the name of War On Terror.
People are not stupid in fact but they are so lazy and love to call Muslims terrorists without any justification. Did the people who called Muslims terrorists ever thought how do the Muslims feel who did nothing about 9/11 but get attacked, killed, raped, massacred and still called terrorists.
The truth is, even if you study and explore the truth and find that it is not the Muslims who did 9/11, you will never ever call that party a terrorist. You will never call USA as a Terrorist.
The biggest blindness of the most educated westerners is that you don't see anything bad in yourselves and always judge hearing from one side only.
Your insanity is astonishing. Black and white must mean something completely different in the world in which you live. I am glad I don't live in your Mom's basement with you.
A clarification: the word "suicide" that I used in #29 does not hold a dictionary meaning but a way to knock the brain of the people who are endlessly self complacent about their unjustified beliefs.
For all those that hate America, who else would you want ruling the world? There will always be a top ruler not matter what time in history and we are lucky it's not the Ottoman empire still in power or the Soviet Union. I just took an interest in this site because I went to Stockholm recently and loved it. I wouldn't want to live there but it's cool to visit. I noticed in talking to swedes that everyone thought war was unnecessary at all times. I thought to myself wow you guys are delusional. No wonder mulsims rape your women and get away with it, you guys have no backbone.
No surprises there, I guess.
Muslim extremists did carry out the attacks. End of story. The part the US can be faulted for is not having its intelligence agencies work more closely together. All the pieces were there they were just not in the same place.
Just because its in "black and while [sic]" on the internet doesn't really mean much. I dont know if you knew this everything on the internet is not necessarily true. For instance look, you're posting on it right now.
Talk about unintended consequences...
Here's the deal. Over across the Atlantic we have our own insane immigration policies to correct. You correct your own.
By the way, how about all the refugees who fled Saddam?
At this point im proud to say im not an american, im sure my own country would take care of the people who rush to its aid.
I understand the problems faced by emergency responders. My uncle worked with agent orange in Vietnam clearing jungle to build things as a Navy CB and lives with cancer, lost a kidney and other health problems as a result.
My husband is a police officer who has had to respond to the Cypress Structure collapse with Loma Prieta and the Oakland Hills fire two years later, and riots after a Superbowl.
Emergency responders know the risk they take every day when they go to work, they also know that there may be physical repercussions as a result.
My husband has lost the feeling in his "gun hand" caused by permanent nerve damage from numerous back/neck injuries after a career in law enforcement. So when I say I understand what the families and first responders are going through, I really honestly do.
How many of you actually lost a loved one on 9/11? The plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was heading to San Francisco, where I live. Many people in my area lost loved ones. Two of my neighbors, one next door and one across the street lost loved ones that day-a man on the flight that crashed in PA who was one of the men who fought with the hijacker and a woman who worked in one of the twin towers.
Three of my close relatives were on airplanes, one in route to NYC, when the planes hit. People died that day and lives were changed forever.
This isn't about politics and all of that BS. It is about the people who were lost on that day and the families that survived. I don't understand for the life of me how this topic has denigrated into finger pointing and political rhetoric.
It doesn't matter...what matters is the people who were directly affected by those events. Do you think my neighbor cares about who is responsible or the political fallout? No...she lost a cousin she loved dearly.
Do you think my neighbor who lost a good friend cares about all that? No, all that family knows is that the young twins lost a father who they will never, ever get to know and a good friend they will never see again.
So when I think about 9/11, I think about my neighbors, the children that lost parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles. I think about the worry I felt over my father-in-law, who was flying to NYC at that moment. I think about my father and brother-in-law who were both on airplanes. I think about my neighbors and their pain, hurt and tears.
That should be what this is about, not all the other stuff.
Former US secretary of state discusses his regrets at being the face of false intelligence on Iraq:
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/americas/2011/09/2011910141014776656.html
False intelligenceo or lies fabricated to motivate the war against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11?
It is easy to sit and talk propaganda or link to some politician's comments.
Would you still do that if someone you loved died? Would you think it was fitting to talk about politics and point fingers at a funeral or memorial?
This event is still an open would for many and for the life of me I cannot understand why someone would belittle the memories of the dead by bringing politics into the discussion.
If you lost someone or if someone close to you lost someone, you may feel differently.
Shouldn't this be about honoring the dead and the people who helped to save the survivors? Shouldn't this be about healing those wounds?
I don't know if 9/11 really affects you in any way. But I am a sufferer because of it. I am not alone, the family members of the people died in 9/11, the firefighters who were the first respondents are not believing the official story by NIST, FEMA and they all demanding a real investigation.
People who lost their friends and family members feel the 9/11 most and thus they have been looking at this matter from the beginning.
One good thing with America is that it really has some devoted scholars. People who fights for the truth. The 9/11 truth movement is driven by people of America. It's not so long when these scholars and activist will unveil the truth in front of the world and thus help USA to be a better country.
you're.... an idiot.
I can't speak for life in those countries (although Palestine is not on any map I own) you mentioned. I don't care too either. They are muslim countries. I wouldn't be free there. More importantly, my daugher wouldn't be free. However, your insanity is due to your belief in conspiracy theories. As researchers just discovered, 28 percent and 38 percent in the US and Europe, respectively, have some form of mental illness. No wonder conspiracy theories are so common. So don't feel bad. There are a lot loons to keep you company and many of them can be found at those websites you haunt.
Start looking at what G. Bush senior has said ten years prior to the 9/11, start looking at what Bush junior has said, start looking at what Cheney has said, start looking at how controlled the demolition of the towers was, start looking at real testimonies of people who were present that day. This event was long premeditated, spoken about in the media, portrayed in movies, books, whatsoever. Noone can make me go back and think that this was a terrorist attack.
I don't care one way or another whether you like the US, or Americans, for that matter, but I'll be damned if I'm going sit back while trash my country for reacting to the Taliban. The Taliban were warned to hand over Bin Laden, but they chose to protect him, and so sealed their fate. al qaeda declared war on a country with the balls to protect itself and its citizens - AND YOU against threats from extremist organizations and you have the guts to call us inhumane???? Shame on you - shame on all of you. Pull your heads out of your collective asses and take a look around! The real world is a dark place filled with thousands of people who gladly give their lives to murder a few westerners (including Swedes).
Grow up.
All of the other groups accused of complicity in this disaster are innocent.
You can look it up!
Would I lie?
You can trust and believe me, because as we all know, the holocaust never happened.
But of course you knew that.
Funny except US special forces are actually engaged and tested in real perpetual combat vs. modern British forces who's biggest talent is letting camera crews in to film their training and film reality shows.
They're glorified Boy Scouts until the US uses them as a D squad as a courtesy so they don't get too soft on chips and beer.
Nothing like a good armchair quarterback to talk a big game.
What happened 9/11 is the result of America's abuse in the middle east. The only reason the US government (err Corporation USA) cares about the middle east is because of crude oil. Read Tyranny of Oil whom was written by an former insider of the oil industry.
People will only tolerate government adding and removing dictators, bombing their countries and attacking their people for so long in the name of profit and greed.
When I return from my visits to Sweden, I am always dumbfounded by the amount of cars and traffic in the USA. Americans expect to get in their cars and they expect cheap gas. So many people are brainwashed here that they do not put together what has happened for the last 110+ years. If gas were to rise to the pris in Sweden, many Americans would do as Swedes do-- bike, own very fuel efficient cars and walk.
It saddens me to think one of the real reasons why all those people died in 9/11 is due to oil. Americans are so preoccupied with upside down mortgages, lack of jobs and constantly near collapse economy that I feel the 10th anniversary lesson is loss.
My newest concern is what is going on in Sweden with these terrorist. Sweden?? really??
With all that in mind, and much more, the fact remains that thousands of innocent civilians were killed on 9/11. The attacks were not limited to the Pentagon or other military installations, rather they were carried out in such a way that would leave the US little choice but to attack those responsible for the massacre of innocent lives. The attacks were cowardly and unwise. There was no direct benefit to the terrorists, or to Islam, other than to gain publicity for their "cause" and extremist views.
These attacks, and other similar acts of terrorism, do not bring to light the struggles of the peoples of entire nations or religions, but instead serve to diminish world views of entire nations or religions. Islam and Christianity teach tolerance and peace, but there will always be the extreme few who interpret the Quran or Bible in a way that suits their needs and manage to create a following of people who truly hate those of differing religions or even race.
I will never condone acts of unprovoked aggression by anyone, regardless of the situation they might find themselves in. To attack the US or any of it's allies over facts listed above is not going to change a thing for the better. A better solution would have been for them to attack their own government - to make real change they must first start at home. Oust the leaders who are making millions of dollars from corporate America and put into power a leader with primary concerns for his/her own country and its citizens.
As far as our views of the US and of corporate America: nothing will change unless people like you me stand up against what we believe is wrong. As long as the American people keep voting into office leaders with ties to the corporate world or to powerful lobbyists of corporate America we will continue to allow our government to behave in the fashion it has grown accustomed... to behave in a greedy and inhumane manner.
Peacefully protests can help, but only if the numbers are there
Intellectually weak the Europeans? Were are the mass destruction weapons of Saddam Hussein? they didn't appear anywhere and we also sent there our soldiers, the same to Afghanistan. The key point here is that our elites have common interests with yours (I would say that they are the same people), so we all have our soldiers there, whatever the business is in Afghanistan or Middle East our politicians, think tanks, lobbies and elites want the same, we are in the same boat.
Experience shown me that there is no point in discussing this matters with European official version believers, no one changes opinion, it's a time waste, so to do it with native Americans makes even less sense because they suffered the attack in their soil.
BTW, there also no evidence showing that the attack are coming from Israel or the US government, smells fishy yes, but there is no proof, so an intelligent individual can't 100% assert any of the versions.
And of course I'm with the victims and the families, whoever did that deserves to be paid with the law of retaliation, it´s just that the current evidence doesn't satisfy me, I'm in my right to think like that and I have arguments.
Don't get me wrong, wanton death of civilians by any armed group is always deplorable, but I really find it morally disgusting how these "innocent" individuals are remembered, when - just as ONE case example - a total number of an estimated, whopping 576,000 Iraqi children between the ages of 0-7 DEAD by the end of 1995, are shoveled under the carpet of human consciousness. This estimate was based on the fact that the US promoted and upheld economic sanctions against Iraq; Madeleine Albright suggesting that the then US administration "thought that this 'price' was worth it" and effectively earmarking these poor children as "collateral damage".
The typical 20th Century tactic of the U.S. - that has earned it the reputation of "they don't like us, because we are free" - is that it requires the natural resources and assets of other nations (and I am not dupe enough to believe there aren't MANY Western nations that deal in the same way). Hence, the govt supports, finances, trains and defends tyrannical, dictatorial thugs who enrich themselves and support the expropriation of national resources for the gains of private owned US companies, at the EXPLICIT detriment of the indigenous masses, both economically and in terms of their freedom. A number of coup d'etats have been promoted - often when the incumbent socialist leader(s) wanted to use their national natural resources to alleviate poverty, foster national independence and economic prosperity - and were coined as the "toppling" of communist regimes by the US news. Then comes the 2nd round of "help" (for one example of this, read Perkins' Confessions of an Economic Hitman, which to my experience as a development economist is a "watered" down version of the truth), quite often as "aid" and loans at exorbitant interest rates, that ultimately, the same repressed indigenous population has to pay through taxes. The "aid" packages include an overwhelming majority of contracts tied to US companies to build that other nations infrastructure. "Free" international US help/aid, as I read on this discussion board: "My foot!". To cut a long story short, and set aside the abject poverty in 3rd world countries these policies have created; the number of civilians killed worldwide, directly or indirectly, by the US in the past century, amounts to 10s, if not 100s, of millions.
If you want a good synopsis of US involvement cum 20th Century foreign policy in Guatemala, Honduras, Cuba, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Nicaragua, Iran (Mossadegh's), Indonesia (lets not forget the extras, which are not all mentioned in this book Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, post-Saddam Irak, etc. ): I suggest you read Naomi Klein's book "Shock Doctrine". (... post continued below...)
The USA is the rape and pillage global super power and not everyone wants to live there, those who suffer in the 3rd world are willing to risk their lives to live in any western nation. USA business leaders like Gates etc, have done more for those in need than any US president.
except for the non-whites (even Americans) of course! I find it amazingly hypocritical, that Swedes can show sympathy towards white Americans when terrorism reaches their shores, yet show blind ignorance, even hatred, when terrorism happens in Afghanistan and Iraq. It's as if innocents can only be white people.
I can't explain it. Maudlin cliches must be really, really cool in some circles. To me, they just sound sappy and pathetic.
9/11 is just a harsh reminder that if ignore centuries old clashes of civilizations and drop your guard, you leave yourself open for a sucker punch. And so America got sucker punched by bunch of cowards. As did the UK, Spain, Australians (Bali), and India.
No wonder you get a shock when you finally apply for that passport, leave the homeland and actually talk to people from other countries.
If you are referring to Mexicans or other desperate inhabitants of the developing world - they'll go anywhere where that can have some outside chance of earning some money to support their families. There is massive emigration to all of the world's wealthier countries - you are far from alone here.
It is a disgrace that so many Americans use this developing world desperation as some sort of reference on their society when they, just like the EU, treat economic migrants so shockingly.
Sure I know a number of other, educated westerners, who also spent time across the pond but they are either a) already back home or b)grossly overweight and thus unable to move anywhere.
It's true that many wealthy countries have immigrants but more of them want to come to the US than anywhere else. We have about 25 million undocumented immigrants, that's more than the entire population of Sweden! We also have millions more documented immigrants and they rarely leave this country because even though we have flaws we still have more opportunity than anywhere else. We treat our immigrants much better than you by the way. I'm latino and when I was in Stockholm I met Chileans that said it's really hard for them to get a good job there. In my state of California we have tons of minorities that manage or own businesses and they probably make more money than most of you Swedish people since we pay lower taxes and have higher spenders here. I know we have many poor people in our country but that is usually their fault. Capitalism punishes lazy people but rewards the hard working and ambitious people, which is the way it should be. I've seen plenty of homeless and they are usually drug addicts.
Another thing, you guys will be begging us for help when someone invades you. I wouldn't put anything past Russia or Islamic extremists. I like the Swedish military uniforms but you guys would get destroyed in combat.
Even though I am new at the Local.se discussion board, let me ask a rhetorical question that once got me kicked off another discussion board: if the American-national individuals who died on 911, who all belonged to the "greatest democratic nation in the world", who had the right to vote, speak and ask for accountability from its govt actions upon other countries be considered "innocent victims"... Then, how can 576,000 children - i.e. 'children' as in they can't voice their opinion like adults - who live in a dictatorship, be considered "collateral damage"? Do we have a rememberance time/day for these kids? Nope.
So "NO!". I am not American. No way. I don't share their dodgy ideology nor warped sense of "justice". And I will NEVER support nor condone their immoral acts which they let their media brainwash them (and some of us) into believing are fights (read "wars") for 'just causes' that "cowardly" European nations won't support them with, just in order to further their own (US) economic fortune. And, from a democratic, free-speech perspective, I will not validate their stance of "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists" to be anything else but dictatorial; and since this is done for nothing more than economic gain, facist.
Like any school yard bully, the US looks very "solemn" and chivalrous when dispensing the punches, but cry like babies when they get hit.
Its obvious where the smoke is coming from,and WHOM you represent here.The mulas did good job by washing your brains.Answer is simple-all terorists will be held acountable for their actions,no matter in which hole will they hide...
Now people are finding out the truth that happened in 9/11 which I assumed 10 years back on that very day. Muslims don't even have the brain to plan such an attack, honestly.
And by the way, Robbie619 who's having a go @grymagnusson... You might want to know that income and wealth distribution (known in economics as the Gini coefficient) has shown systematically since India's independence (1947) a lesser disparity in distribution than in the US. On the opposite side of the scale, Sweden's average over the past 60 years is the lowest, i.e. Sweden is the country with the least income and wealth disparity on the planet, in other words the most equal. India suffers of an endemic caste, claimed to be 2500 years old, that has plagued social mobility and yet has fared better than the US in the last 60 odd years with regard to this accepted indicator of "equality". To classify "have nots" as lazy drug addicts, rather than individuals that might have suffered generations of poverty and lack of opportunity and associated vicious cycles, is a truely "colonial" and ignorant attitude.
Interesting about your hand-picked Chilean immigrant sub-population census as your proof of Swedish "racism". I wonder why they didn't rather immigrate to the more proximal US, like you, rather than cross the whole bleedin' planet to come to Sweden. Better socio-economic support? Sweden had open arms when the US was nicely supporting Allende's overthrow and inception of Pinochet. I don't know which "lazy, homeless drug addict" Chilean you met here, but the ones I know have never claimed being discriminated against. Any idiot with a modicum of historical knowledge and experience of living in Sweden as a "non-white" immigrant would think your argument is garbage and unfounded. Sweden shows no more "nationalism" in regard to employment practices than any other nation on this planet. On the contrary, if you lived here, you'd know they are very open and accepting of productive foreigners and the indigenous majority wouldn't "bunch categorize" the less fortunate as "lazy, homeless drug addicts". Did you ever consider that apart from native Indians, ALL U.S. Americans are immigrants? Discrimination in the U.S. due to one's immigrant status would be at best hypocritical.
You are gravely mistaken with your pseudo-racist "claims" and such deliberate, grotesque and uninformed accusation can only undermine other legitimate claims to racist policies and thoughts. And that's coming from my brown-faced, recently immigrated to Sweden self.
"No man is an island/entire of itself"
and
"Each man's death diminishes me/For I am involved in mankind"
I was certainly diminished by those events. A friend died in the collapse of the World Trace Center, and had been there when a different bunch drove a lorry laden with explosives into the underground carpark in 1993. A relative of another friend also died in that collapse.
However, the reading of the names of those who died sickens me. Who is reading out the millions of names of those who died in the intervening years from drought and famine --- famine that could be avoided if US-centric trading practices were abolished and the grain feed to cattle were diverted to feed the millions without any food.
The death of my friend in WTC diminished me. The death of a friend's relative diminished me. The death of millions every single year diminishes me, diminished us all more. The US sees itself as an island entire of itself but they are not. And much of the famine that afflicts other and pooerer nations is created by that isolationist attitude.
Until the names of the ever increasing millions are read out I will be sickened by the sound of my friend's name being read in jingoistic fashion every year.
This move will force some imbalanced minded greedy business guys out of USA but after a while they have to come back to our Great North-America and restart their businesses by agreeing to pay taxes at higher rates because this territory will still be the best on earth for living a better citizen's happier life.
Moreover, the economic booms in places like China, India etc. are temporary because 'trade controlling switch' is in our hands.
We are still blessed and can prudently print globally absorbing more of our money now to play a balancing positive game and still choose a plan and start, effective immediately, to repay debts for over an extended period. We cannot help a deteriorating relationship because China is not honest in dealings and therefore, will be the last party to get paid unless its businessmen follow the new standard to be amended and reset by a newly strengthened UN power.
Shahislam