Published: 13 Sep 11 14:03 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/36104/20110913/
An Italian politician was convicted by a Swedish court on Tuesday for assaulting his son while on holiday in Stockholm in a case that has sparked heated debate in both Italy and Sweden.
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So the fact that children in the US run around until midnight is because corporal punishment is forbidden? And if parents could just beat their children they would go to bed at 21:00? Sounds like in the US they need to learn a thing or two about parenting...
I don't like your behaviour. Is it OK if I knee you in the groin?
I don't like your behaviour. Is it OK if I poke my finger in your eye?
Read the case of DOMENIC JOHANSSON. Read cases fought by lawyer Siv Westerby. Swedish families have moved to Finland. They're applying for asylum status in the U.S. and Canada. The Swedish state does NOT care about child welfare. The state cares about control. Read about lawyer Ruby Harrold-Claesson, the president of the Nordic Committee for Human Rights, who fights the state's abuses of children and their families…
I don't like your behaviour. Is it OK if I kick you on the knee?
Probably because a child is not big enough to hit back, which means it's much safer for grown ups to hit children than other grown ups.
Compare this case with the one with child negligence case against the Swedish mother in US a few months back,.,.,I think most of you guys were sympathizing the Swede saying the US laws suck and it should not apply to her b'cos its fine in Sweden to leave your child unattended :)
Most laws in Sweden are so confusing and not at all well defined. Some people get sent to jail for bringing home a hungry Hedgehog. And then its legal to hunt some animals :)
And the rape laws have already made Sweden more famous :)
I am totally against child abuse. But then the way this case has been handled it is a shame.
Sweden is one very, very confused society.
1. Its not acceptable to hit a kid, so the law in itself is fine to be applied.
2. It was applied on a tourist, who is been raised and would raise his child in an environment and law which is not Swedish.
So, an individual staying in Sweden will have to abide by point no:1, weather he/she reads it or is ignorant about it.
When this law has to be apllied to a tourist, there can be a stern warning and a notice to its embassy on the individual, and in extreme cases especially within EU a followup if the case can be tried in the home country.
But you cannot put a tourist in jail or fine him for doing things which are not Swedish, this control has gone way out of hand.
If you want this to be a global practice(which is good) take it at the right forum,
But by applying it on tourist, it sends a lot of negative signal's and people who would care less of Swedish law would laugh and stay away from it( and i dont think this can be done for a long time).
What would you have done to get the kid into the restaurant?
If I lovingly hit you around the head a few times (with a heavy blunt object), I presume you'll respect more as a person after ? :)
I am glad my parent disciplined me. I dont smoke, drink nor party because of my father's dicipline. I cannott do dat 2 my own child because i will go to jail. My life is stable because of my father my hero dat did not spare d rod when it was absolutely necessary. He loved me so much but there were some boundaries i must not cross
It is the height of arrogance for someone to claim the law of the land (any land) does not apply to them; in Sweden, (and in Italy) the law applies to everyone, Kings, paupers and even tourists.
I look forward to reading about a Swede arrested in Italy who says "Italian law does not apply to me, I'm from Sweden". I am sure the Italian courts will give such a powerful defence the respect it deserves.
Another argument is how you should show discipline to your children and I believe that it depends to each of us. The state has the obligation to protect any citizen, including children. But if we go back to our own experience, we all behaved wrongly in some opportunity and none of us died because of our father pulling our hear or grabbing us by the arms or so. The issue is how far that can go and I don't believe that not even touching the child is the best option. Many countries rely in the grade of the injuries to determinate it. Balance, always balance.
"I am a lawyer and .... You can't apply the law to someone who does not know about it."
If you were a good lawyer, you would know that you can. Ignorance of the law is not a defence. Back to law school with you.
@ sjuttiosjusköterskorpåsjukhuset
Sweden has as much right as any other country to influence. What is good in one country is often copied by others. The fact that you don`t think the father should be jailed makes me sick.
@ riose
I would have talked to the child. I would have bribed him. If all else failed I would take him by his hand and lead him in. I would never strike, slap, pull or kick a child.
@ glenquagmaire
So you can`t put a tourist in jail? Are you crazy? So just because one is a tourist they should be able to do anything and when confronted they should just act ignorent and say that they didn`t know about the law? You are ridiculous. If you have a vacation in a foerign country it`s up to you to know what is acceptable or not.
"If he was hungry and had the money to buy his own food someplace else, good for him"
Hmm, I presume if you had been in the US, you would have been accused of child neglect. No, you cannot let a 12 year old roam around alone in a foreign city - no way.
And I have my serious doubts he would have entered by himself if he was hungry, if he was so obstinate - anyway, impossible to know now.
I think it's a case of gobby Italian (i'm stereotyping) and over keen Swedish Police (rare - again not sterotyping) both clashing on the day.
You would that if it happened a 100 times again the Police would give the adult hair puller a verbal slapping and send them on their way. Only problem here is a really $hit parent might then take it out on the kid once home, for humiliating him etc.
SWEDEN says Corporal punishment ..Totally Forbiden!!!
Sweden says Abortion ... OK
Does it make any sense?
Can any aone explainme please???
A father gets detained and fined 6600 SEK for disciplining his child.
Which one is more guilty of damaging the next generation....
Can't get the logic of the law sometimes
http://www.thelocal.se/35592/20110817/
In the US this is considered child abuse but the response of the mother was:
'She told police that she "found nothing wrong with the situation", emphasising that it was common practice for Swedish parents to leave young children unattended outside a restaurant.'
Did not everyone here rise up in her defence?
I certainly do not condone discipline that involves corporal punishment and would rather see the use of reason and will but this is not about this. This story is about the legality of it all.
a) if someone starts to lift you by your hair, your hands will immediately fly up to hold onto his hands in order to carry your own weight, so it is not like the parent was ripping out his son's hair one fistfull at a time. I am not in favour of violence against children in any form, but it is not uncommon (and admitedly, nor is it right) for children to have to deal with this level of trouble in school yards from bullies for example, but it is not the end of the world either.
b) the fine + jail time + legal fees + disruption of the family's travel plans could easily amount to something in the neighbourhood of a 50,000 SEK loss to the family, which, incidentally, is the amount that a 20 year in Sweden was recently fined for being guilty of 'murder, bordering on torture' (+ 6 to 9 years jail time).
The fine for murder is ridiculously low, however an equivalent financial penalty to a family with a tourist Dad who acts like a jerk is on the high side, in my opinion.
Your comment is among the few comments that make sense here. You said my mind.
@All of you insulting sjuttiosjusköterskorpåsjukhuset (You know yourselves), may all of you wroth in Swedish jail.
http://www.sydsvenskan.se/varlden/article1544194/Italienare-falld-for-slag-mot-barn.html
I am pleased people intervening in this particular assault were not ethnic Swedes. When you live or visit Sweden you must follow the law of Sweden.
Colosante was held on remand because he gave the court reasonable grounds to believe he intended to leave the country and escape Swedish justice. It is normal (in Sweden, Italy, and everywhere else) to refuse bail in those circumstances. He was later able to reassure the court he would return to Sweden for trial and was released on bail pending a trial.
Wherever you travel, and even at home, if don't want to be "humiliated" and/or bring distress to your family, don't break the law. If you do, the "humiliation" and distress is down to you alone.
If Italians are unable to follow the Swedish law in Sweden, they are unwelcome. I am sure Italians feel the same way about Swedes who are unable to follow the Italian law in Italy.
There was an story in USA when Italian grandfather was each day going with his grandson to the school and he was kissing him to goodbye...
Result ?
The sexual harassement sue from crazy offended teacher ( lady). Police goes to save grandchild to stop ugly grandfather´kissing attack. Dishonour in front of hudnreds people from comunity, cryiing but SAVED grandchild:(, old man jailed......
Finnal result after several court sessions ?
The grandfather ïs forbbiden to go nearer then 1/4 of mile to any school arround now !
Shame on such using of law !
Last year here in Italy I witnessed a real child abuse, a man on the beach was really beating hard his son, we all reacted against him, he had to face dozens of angry people and we all waited with him for police. Abuse of children is not tolerated in Italy.
My father never beated me but gave me slaps in the butt when I got over the limits (and my mother too), I clearly remember that I didn't feel pain, I felt sorry for having been too far. Only in one occasion he did hurt me, it was when he pulled my hairs, at that time I remember I cried and I told him he really hurt me, he said to me he was sorry, he cuddled me and never did it again.
My parents did give me a good education, made me strong and aware that over certain limits there are consequencies. To me bad parents are the ones that don't care about their children, or don't spend enough time with them, abusers are simply criminals and if this italian is a real abuser, please keep him in prison, you'll save Italy of a criminal and another corrupt politician.
But I feel like here in Europe we're losing the sense of reality and we're blindly following some high ideals forgetting that the biggest cause of our misery is that we created a unnatural way of living, too much time at work and following money, too little time with our family and loved ones.
...Just mentioning the funky side of the law...
The witnesses also insulted in italian language the man when he was going back ot the restaurant with his son.
Is not the first time that witnesses says lies.
OMG: To those of you out here who have disagreed with me: I NEVER stated that hitting your child was o.k. I stated that children need to be disciplined. There's a BIG difference. I am sorry that you persons flunked your 4th grade comprehension class, that's not my problem. I took away privileges from the children that I raised. Playing out in the streets well after sunset and into the late hours of the night, not only reflects the grave irresponsiblities of parents today, it is ALSO a form of child abuse: Neglecting your child(ren) without supervision, especially so late at night, opens the door to child predators and kidnappers.
It doesn't matter how minor any of you think the offence was, the law is the law.