Published: 28 Nov 11 14:06 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/37612/20111128/
Swedish society is failing its "immigrants", many of whom, such as football star Zlatan Ibrahimovic, are forced to look elsewhere to build successful careers, social commentator and author Tove Lifvendahl argues.
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Sweden is one of the most gernerous countries in receiving and giving to immigrants. Sweden goes out of her way to facilitate the further learning of immigrants' native languages almost to the detriment of Swedish.
While admittedly not being a world language, Swedish is essential if one wishes to remain for good in Sweden. Sweden has a long and proud culture.
I think the real issue is the unwillingness for the government to wake up to the reality that Mrs Merkel stated so plainly and honestly about Germany - multiculturalism is well and truly dead and multiethnicity with the creation of parallel societies living discretely is the unpalatable reality.
This is the same for every country in Europe where at least there is more honesty and not the usual practice of sticking one's head in the sand so prevalent in Sweden.
What Sweden needs to understand is that the world is no more so divided - there is nothing tying down intelligent people here anymore. Armed with their intelligence and work ethics, they actually have the capability to set up where ever they want....somewhere with better weather, better standard of life and lower taxes - and most importantly somewhere where people will not constantly make you feel like an 'invandrare'.
The same goes for most of the other talented Swedes Tove mentions. Talent follows the money. If Sweden was able to match or beat what's on offer elsewhere, talented Swedes (even immigrants) would be more than pleased to live and work at home. Many of them will return when they retire.
You're barking up the wrong tree Tove.
What a horribly written, pointless, moronic piece of "journalistic" vomit this is.
Many Swedes consider themselves better that other nations. Better than Norwegians(who are just uneducated and lucky lottery winners with their oil), better than Fins(who are just bare potato farmers), better than all eastern European nations(who are just barbaric rubbish).
As many Swedes consider themselves by default better than most of other nations they think they can teach everybody and take higher moral ground. I have heard many times phrase```you know...we have Swedish rule`` Once i was even told Swedish man that Swedes start peeling banana from other end.(this is no joke)
If you feel that most people around you think they are better than you then at some point you do not want to be part of that society and you go away.
Also i have noticed that more intelligent Swedes understand that this attitude is not suitable for ``higher culture`` nation and try to hide their thinking. Many do not succeed on that. Simple Swedes emphasize this attitude and try to explain you that Swedish culture is some high culture even when you can understand that most of these people have not been even in London or any other metropolis.
Also. Fear and greed are quite common attitudes. These attitudes create hate.
"Simple Swedes emphasize this attitude and try to explain you that Swedish culture is some high culture even when you can understand that most of these people have not been even in London or any other metropolis."
So there is a higher culture in London or any other metropolis? Now who is the one taking the higher moral ground and looking down on others? You are bunching yourself with the same people you are criticizing.
My point was badly expressed. I did not say there is some higher culture in London or any other place. i just wanted to point out that IT IS strange when somebody thinks he is better `` by default `` without having comparison information to come to this conclusion. There are many Swedes who think they better `` by default`` just being Swedes without doing themselves anything special.
As for the rest of this mess I don't even know where to begin. In Sweden we have the jante law - this is basically small-town mentality that exists on a national scale here since Sweden is such a small country. It's more common in smaller towns but exists in bigger cities to an extent as well. And that's that. Why make any distinction of ancestry? Therefore making the assumption that Swedes will see someone as "different" simply because they have a foreign name. This is nonsense. Having a love for cultural conformity is just that - don't try to find "racism" where it doesn't exist. Just because Tove subconsciously see's anyone with a foreign name as an immigrant doesn't mean we all do.
And finally when it comes to Zlatan he of course moved abroad to get to the better clubs. Shocker. Does Tove know nothing about football? People moving abroad to get to better institutions and/or better pay is hardly new and there's nothing wrong with that. Tove viewing this kind of action as a betrayal of some sort to Swedish society is on the other hand real racism. Those of any background don't owe anything to Sweden. You can't help where you're born and it's up to every person to find what works for them.
Zlatan is proud to be Swedish and we're just as proud of him. That Tove cannot see that is too bad for her.
http://alieninsweden.wordpress.com/2011/11/26/immigrant-in-sweden/
I hear you. I live in the US and am married to a Swede, and her peer group - almost all of whom studied and lived abroad - are almost unable to return to the workforce in Sweden because they're viewed as too different. Imagine that - native-born Swedes. Experience at good companies doing challenging work. We have another friend who returned with a four-year undergraduate degree and had to junk it - the experience abroad was valueless. The degree, meaningless. And I know some of the characters on this New York soccer team - they are bright, aware contributors to society but they weren't valued in Sweden. And a few more in DC. Wouldn't get a sniff at a job in Sweden, even with an ivy league education.
What a shame.
The local removed my account for the Germany edition because I made unfavorable comments directed at mass immigration.
It is not wrong in any way to have this opinion im not a racist Im anti immigration there is a diferance I dont support being rude to people based on ethnicty but I dont want my country flooded either.
In some countries the employment of 'outsiders' is discouraged in the middle segment which is also the bulk of it, it is a sector that is already facing competition from machines and improved developments elsewhere.
So If you find yourself in a country that continues to treat you like an 'outsider', you know where you are welcome and where you are not. Even if you do end up in the highly qualified pool, it wouldn't be long before you hit the glass-ceiling.
Leave Sweden and you will find no where on this planet where you kan raise you kids in a peaceful environment!!!
I also agree that many swedes are brainwashed to have this attitude that they are better than others, that everything swedish is so much better. I guess they have that attitude because they don't know anything better. It is a contradicting attitude when swedes are told that anything swedish is better than anything foreign and at the same time we are told that swedish culture and traditions don't exist and we are all ignorant rasists. Swedish schools today are terrible propaganda organs for multiculture and islam, nothing else.
is this all that keeps you in Sweden?
I don't know why you sick people come out of your own delusion look around other country tell me a country where only there own kind is living may be you can go to Mars and see. Immigrants ! its just a 9 letter word and s in the end.
you guys are such a retarded and sowing an animosity seed on the hearts of young swedes towards immigrants , in future in will grow as a tree that always call the god "chaos"
Two swedish parents meant you were Swedish. One foreign parent, uhh, OK. Two non-swedish parents, forget about it.
I would like to believe this embarrassingly racist definition of nationality is falling into disrepute.
Some countries, for example the USA and France, conceive of nationality as subscribing to cerain abstract ideals. For France--liberté, egalité; for the USA--life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
"It is not wrong in any way to have this opinion im not a racist Im anti immigration "
You should be ashamed of such commentary, to be honest... i feel bad for you, you just cant be happy living on your little world. There's so much you could learn from other cultures, you don't know the richness that someone raised on other culture can bring to the way you see things. The development comes when you join different forms of thinking, not when you meet with a bunch of people with the same ideas as you
He was taken in, wasn't he?...Isn't that enough?
Now upon leaving Sweden it is said that Sweden did not do enough for him, is totally ridiculous!
Ask the question what did his native country NOT do for him that caused him to leave in the first place?
Ridiculous article...Total rubbish.
@ myself_eumesmo_själv : You are a very rude person there is no need for such insults to get a point across. I know alot about other cultures the thing is they have a part of the world where their culture is the way of life we also have ours.
I dont think any non western country would be quite so worried about making their country more western friendly and go as far as to criminaly charge their own people for wanting to send me back to where I came from.
Your have interesting ideas! Could you please explain how did you come to this conclusion ? What information and analysis did you use ?
Is is really so that....immigrant is coming to Sweden and he will get all kind on nice handouts from government ? What should i do if i want also these ? Do i just come to Sweden and ask it ?
As an expat with a good background, I am treated like s... by Swedish locals: how could a non-Swede be better than Swedes, and even more shocking, tell Swedes how to do better? This is far beyond their understanding, even in 'educated' (locally that is) population
Then, I understand that Swedes might be even tougher to immigrants, who themselves, when luckly enough to become successful, only dream of leaving this country to more open and less racist countries like US or UK.
Lets stop talking about integration, lets talk about living together, acting together, contributing together, for the sake of our common future
What the Muslims should do is to refuse the victim mentality, its not the question to be liked or not to be liked, its a question of rights, its a question of understanding, its a question of self-respect.
Teaching Islam is not only about learning the basic duties such as praying. It is teaching the children manners, as well as cleanliness. A nursery shall provide an Islamic environment and will instil in them good morals, which will help them become good Muslims. A good Muslim is a good citizen, a gentle and caring member of society.
Islam places huge emphasis on gaining knowledge. Education is also crucial to integration and social cohesion in a diverse multicultural and multi-faith society.
I see no reason why immigration and tolerance for other cultures is a threat to the welfare state. Immigrants keep some of our most important public services running and will likely be required even more so in the decades ahead in order to care for European's ageing population. There are certainly legitimate concerns among the trade union movement about social dumping bringing down wages but that could quite easily be solved by tightening labour regulations and making sure all workers have the same pay and working conditions regardless of where they come from. I think the main threat is the EU (together with global financial institutions like the IMF). Why not challenge economic globalisation and the powerful corporate interests it serves instead of putting the blame on migrants from the third world who are either fleeing persecution or simply looking for a better life for themselves and their families?
IA
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Believe the chaps like the multikulti ones can be sorted out nicely in a semi-feudal society with dukes and barons!! Visit Pakistan where the elites carry Bikini bags speak accented English and relish life and we have the gutter discourse of 'isolationist' here...
As we say: Immigrants in Sweden want, the beacon, the pig and all the piglets
How much one can say this is culture or just Islamisation is debatable by one's perception. Another unpaltable truth is that of all the immigrant minorities to come to Europe - immigrants with Muslim backgrounds have been the least integrated.
For the ones that say multiculturalism is dead, I have to say that now globalization ll not make any easier to come back to the old days where multicultural experience was exceptional. We are more than ever connected to each other so we better learn how to co-exist, apparently we haven´t done it yet.
But multiculturalism will wipe Sweden off the map within a generation.
All that will remain is some architecture, a flag, some snippets of language and a constitution (i.e. a piece of paper).
This realization is instinctive in proud cultures and is the root of the antagonism to outsiders - by definition - Sweden can either be Swedish - or have immigration and cease to be Swedish.
There is no middle ground.
You have little option but to accept some of the ancient ways of life...do you realize that it is the hopeless Swedish middle-classes and lower middle classes which are going to be responsible for cessation of Swedishness and not the hapless helpless immigrants. The pathetic post-war society celebrated consumerism both the Anglo-Saxon and welfare state variety as well, you created a middle-class which negotiates identity for the immigrants. Why cant you just accept some nobility and private enclaves where Swedish culture can be protected?? Why this defense of drunken laddies who are good in IT-skills but promote lowest common denominator culture?? I have witnessed in downtown immigrant kids being encouraged by the stupid laddies to pee on the streets and violate the norms of the society.
I can guarantee you without a renewed 19th century style Bourgeoisie who patronized arts and operas have no hope for protecting Swedish culture and identity....take it from me...as a newcomer naturally I will be drawn towards liberals the cool dudes from university who exposes me to Swedishness of heavy drinking and stupid ice-hockey games and I learn diffidence since in Sweden you don't call a moron a moron even school mediocre drop-outs can speak and dont shut up!!
JUST GET RID OF THE EGALITARIAN CULTURE...CENTURY BACK IF I LANDED IN SWEDEN I KNEW THE 'HIGH' CULTURE OF THE SWEDISH ELITES AND THE RULES AND NORMS....DO WE HAVE THAT NOW?? NO NONON
1.0 Is it Swedish culture today or in the glorious which for me is the pathetic post-war distortion of notion of egalitarianism, if I read text and memoirs about 19th century when BTW Europe was a world power not the welfare-state dump there was a distinct 'court culture' and an elite 'scientific culture'. If as a foreigner I landed in early 20th century I would have witnessed a robust cultural, intellectual bourgeoisie not drunken IT lads with millions in their pockets!!
2.0 Its fine to be equal on wealth terms, which Sweden isnt exactly when the media props up IT and commerce millionaires as role-models, but lets accept is far more equal than other countries...FINE AND GREAT...
But where do we draw the line??? Why not combine great Swedish welfare state egalitarianism with sophisticated intellectual and cultural elites?? Why the penchant for 'provocative' post-modern junkies in the field of culture?
Do you believe having a refined sophisticated cultural world contradicts the spirit of equality and how?? Do we need 'forced' equality of mind and spirit??
Besides Swedish culture is clearly under threat from this spirit of egalitie...frustrated young people are taking to violence across the nordic belt...
Look what we have....drunk youths and macho sports...please reflect and think about this..
Your plight is unfortunate, but I must reply in opposition.
How can you say that about Sweden when/if you go home your daughter would suffer at the hands of your own "miserable people"
If your people were not "miserable people" you would never have left them...would you?
I am glad that the Swedish people care more for your child than her own do!
I hope that she does well, wherever she is.
Don't bite the hand that cares for your child.
As for the article - pointless. Ibrahimovic is a multi-millionaire, world-famous, well respected, hugely talented football player. I doubt, if you asked him, he'd feel 'hard done by' by Sweden. Please don't feel sorry for him.
Actually, Smiling Canuck, Canada does not have a history of immigration. You might be confusing yourself with the United States. Canada, like Australia, hadn't experienced major influx of immigrants until a generation ago. Up until the 1990s, 96% of Canada's population consisted of about five nationalities, compared with hundreds in the United States. And apparently, Canada is losing many of its educated immigrants to the United States in the same way Sweden is. Are you still smiling?