Three charged for plot to murder Lars Vilks

As long as Vilks is willing to act as bait, dangle him out there like flypaper and see how many more rum-dums we can capture.

In my view, it would be fair and reasonable to ask all immigrants from all nations if they feel it is perfectly reasonable to kill people who draw cartoons that they dislike, and/or if they are sympathetic to other extremist viewpoints on violence against others, including excessive violence against disobedient spouses and children, for example. Those who reply in the affirmative should not be admitted into the country.

Enterprising, honest, and hard working immigrants from all nations are welcome, but Sweden should feel no obligation to import hatred, and should not be ashamed to screen out hateful individuals.

To be fair, Lars is also a son of immigrant, while Breivik is norwegian native.

Apelsin000, agree that many terror criminals are domestic, like Timothy McVeigh and Breivik. My point is that people like McVeigh, Breivik, or anyone else who expresses beliefs that extreme violence is justifiable for things that are not considered crimes in Sweden (like cartoon drawing, or the disobedience of spouses or children) should not be invited to become a part of Swedish society, if reliable psychological screening methods can be devised.

For example, an acquaintance told me that he had to submit to a lengthy ideological interview before his first flight on El Al, the Isreali national airline, for obvious reasons.

Admitting someone to live in your country should also include that type of interview in my opinion, to improve the chances that the new immigrants will respect all the rights and freedoms that Swedes enjoy.

"Agree that many terror criminals are domestic"

I think the word you were looking for is some, not many.

KungsholmenGuy, yes, I really wish that you could find a way to prevent those crimes from happening, I am not in anyway supportive to any of those crimes. And as a matter of fact, i am double-vulnerable to those crimes, that is, immigrant criminals are equal-likely to commit crimes to immigrants, and natives dislike immigrants for those crimes even though most of them are as innocent as natives.

Insulting the beliefs of billion people can not be called freedom of speech. According to law, Insulting is a crime and the offended people have the right to open a case against the offender. If Swedish authority acted fairly and at least subjected Vilks views, probably less problems could appear. Additionally, Vilks acts can put lives of many Sweden citizens in danger. It is the the ultimate of irresponsibility of a person and a childish behavior.. Such a person can not be really considered as a wise or even respectable person. I cannot see much difference between Vilks and those who try to kill him; both sides are utilizing force to reach their ambitious willing.

"Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding." "Hate and force cannot be in just a part of the world without having an effect on the rest of it."

"Live and let other to live in peace, otherwise those other do not let you to live in peace."

@ rouzi

You can't see the difference between a cartoonist and a murderer?

Let me guess... you're a Muslim.

@ godnatt

No, It is not the matter of my belief as i am not believe in any types of ideologies.

I spoke with several Muslims concerning these matters and I know they are very sensitive toward such issues and meanwhile so closed minded. On the other hand, as far as I know Vilks and some others did theses acts with full knowledge that such an act can make Muslim angry.

If somebody knows that a person is for any reason sensitive to an act but still insist to deliberately do that act, we should take a look to the personality of the offender.

A cartoonist or whatever somebody is dose not make him special and free of problems. The point is that somebody like Vilks could be simply a murderer if he was in the opposite side because he is using the same method to bring change ( Force and disregarding).

@ rouzi

So we should treat Muslims like children or animals then and not like civilized adults?

Otherwise violence wouldn't be a consequence if we "make Muslim angry".

We ALL hear things we find distasteful. It's called public discourse. It's never okay to kill simply because someone says something you don't like. EVER.

Unless of course you are Muslim.

Then you can mob and lynch innocent aid workers because a redneck burns a koran 10,000 miles away and people will make excuses for you.

Or murder artists and filmmakers right on our doorsteps for exercising their right to free speech and people like you will blame the victims.

Very virtuous stuff you are defending. Enjoy you stay, here. Hopefully it won't last much longer come 2014.

"Insulting the beliefs of billion people can not be called freedom of speech"

Of course it can, because it is. I have the right to insult any religion I choose. Restrict that and you've lost freedom of speech. You're free to criticize religions too.

"Insulting is a crime and the offended people have the right to open a case against the offender"

In what country? Spreading lies about living private individuals may be an actionable offense but saying (for example) about a religion is fair game. If followers of that religion don't like it then tough. Being offended with no recourse is part of the price of living in a civil society.

"I spoke with several Muslims concerning these matters and I know they are very sensitive toward such issues"

That's their problem. If they can't abide by the rules of civilization then they know where the door is.

Personally, I thought it was more of an insult towards dogs.

Okay! I do not know what should I tell you! I am speaking with you logically. I do not know why you do not want to think logically. Anyway, you need to put into account some considerations

1. When you are speaking about Muslim you are speaking about 1.6 billion or more people around the world. Therefore do not overgeneralize.

2. what is your business with Muslim that you want to treat them like animals or children? You live for yourself and leave them alone to live for themselves. if nobody bothers them they do not bother anybody too. "Live and let other live in peace, otherwise those other do not let you live in peace."

3. Do you realize the cultural difference? It is not the matter of distasteful. thing which may not have any importance for you can be of vital importance for somebody else. Part of people in the world are clearly state that, for example, burning Koran is a crime in their opinion and they consider it as an insult.Now, why somebody should do such an act while he´or she is completely aware of this statement? I do not blame victim as i did not accept the act of murderer . I just called them similar in term of behavioral psychology. He did it with full knowledge of the consequence of his work, and even after receiving the first treats he repeated his act. He is clearly enjoying bothering others.

4.which one is Public discourse. Burning Koran or insulting people beliefs ? in every place in the world that you live, insulting people is considered awkward.

5. you think i am defending only because you want to see I am defending. Otherwise I did not defend at all. When did I approve their acts. Furthermore,e It seems that you want make me forcefully Muslim. Perhaps because you see it a negative trait. Be careful ! Hate is one of those things that makes human being blind to reality! Take care!

"When you are speaking about Muslim you are speaking about 1.6 billion or more people around the world."

So? 1.6 billion people can be just as wrong as one person....

And I realize most Muslims may not like what Vilks did but don't support violent retaliation. Those who _do_ support violent retaliation are savages. No other word fits.

"Part of people in the world are clearly state that, for example, burning Koran is a crime in their opinion and they consider it as an insult"

So? They're wrong. A person can dispose of their own property as they see fit. Now I'd be completely against destroying Korans that belong to other people but if a person owns a Koran and wants to burn it then that's their choice. I don't think it's a very ... valuable pasttime but it's their right. (the same goes for the bible and the talmud and any other holy text or any political symbol).

@ mafketis

In what country?

you can try it here in Sweden. just go to police office and tell them i feel offended by somebody when he was talking about something! See what they will tell you. or alternatively can ask them what will happen if I you tell somebody a racist word and the person open a case against you.

2. you are free to insult whoever you want. From my side, i do not care at all. I only understand what type of person you are and try to stay away from you. but I am not sure about others.

3. About your last comment that" this is their problem", I responded previously:

"Hate and force cannot be in just a part of the world without having an effect on the rest of it."

"Live and let other to live in peace, otherwise those other do not let you to live in peace."

@ Rouzi

The thing is in a true democracy free speech allows people to say things ... especially things others don't like. Benjamin Franklin once said, "freedom is based on a principle of the sacredness of the offensive." Words alone can't hurt anyone ... that's why I can go out in any square in the middle of Stockholm and say, "Carl Bildt is an idiot" as loud as I want, and I can't be sent to jail for it.

I also find it interesting how Muslim always talk about how no one can "insult" them, but they can insult anyone and everyone they want on completely arbitrary and free basis. It's called hypocrisy ...

I'd bet anything that the individuals this story referred to as Swedish citizens do think of themselves as being Swedish citizens.

@blursd ! - 'words alone cant hurt any one'

.. If they really cant then there wont have been any anti libel laws ..

Even in the * free world * there are laws and legislation against anti semitism and denial of holocaust .. which completely makes sense !

@ rouzi 'Insulting the beliefs of billion people can not be called freedom of speech. According to law, Insulting is a crime and the offended people have the right to open a case against the offender.'

freedom of speach does not depend on how many people you offend - how many people do Muslims offend when they say that Jesus was not the son of god ?

as for insultiing being a crime - only if it is a specific claim made about an individual - 'rouzi encourages and supports murderers' might fall into that category and it then depends on whether the statement is actually true.

Immigrants are mostly good people, just like you and me.

That said, mass migration + globalism will wipe out Sweden within a generation.

All that will be left is a few pretty buildings a few blonde kids, hacked up Swedish ...

Stockholm will look like Toronto will look like Vancouver will look like Hong Kong will look like Sydney.

We can all live happily together with the complete absence of culture and meaning while get get fat playing video games.

@godnatt

"Unless of course you are Muslim."

"......Enjoy you stay, here. Hopefully it won't last much longer come 2014."

I agree with the rest of your comment, except the two above.

All are welcome if they follow the rules and laws of the country they live in.

It is completely irrelevant if I agree or don't agree with peoples ideas.

I don't have to like Vilks, but I must allow him to spew his nonsense.

I don't have to like Islam, but I must allow them to practice.

I just can not understand where and when i defended the murderer. The only thing that i said was that do not remain attached to reality of your mind. See the reality of outside world.

Freedom is always relative and not absolute. We all know we are not allowed to say whatever we want. we all know words can hurt people emotion.

For those who suggest that Muslims have freedom of speech... the following is from a CNN release this evening:

Australian officials said they were informed he was convicted of blasphemy and "making comments insulting to prophet Mohammed's relatives."

His sentence was originally two years imprisonment along with the 500 lashes, but the court reduced the sentence by a year, consular officials said. It was unclear when the lashing punishment will be carried out.

Blasphemy is punishable by up to a death sentence under the strict Muslim law in Saudi Arabia.

Treat them like animals? Certainly. They have about as much environmental sense as my dog. They all need to be taken into spay and neuter clinics.

Getting fixed should be a requirement of immigration.

The Mailgnant Breeders (immigrants) are destroying the world as well as Sweden.

Freedom of speech is GONE!! Why? Idiot Muslims. Excuse the redundancy.

@ rouzi

You don't understand because you are too ignorant to see that freedom of expression is why this place is safer, more civilized, less corrupt and better than where you came from which is why you all are coming HERE and we are not going there.

And if people like you the terrorists you sympathize with had their way, you would turn it right back into where you came from starting with taking away people's right to say what the want, regardless of how silly it is which is the foundation of a free society.

@ cowboy

Fair enough.

Goodbye freedom of speech...

@ godnatt

It is good that i am ignorant because at least i am not insulting any person. I wish you could be as ignorant than me as well.

Those people who hurt people emotion in the name of freedom of expression, do not differ much of those who kill others in the name of an imaginary god. Killing is not only achieve by taking life . we can kills people emotion as well.

I wish you could at least understand such simple words that i told several times. I neither defend nor sympathize terrorists.

Once more do not overgeneralized the thing . Instead of closing you eyes and shouting regularly, open them to see the reality of the world.

This country lacks one major thing- respect for others.

@chantal11

It's an unnegotiable foundation of Western civilization that we may criticize and ridicule the beliefs of others. That's how we got science for example, by ripping knowledge from the clutches of the church.

No god, saint or prophet is beyond criticism. This is a freedom we must never abandon.

@chantal11

Not only the matter of this country, It is a universal disorder.

@big5

nonnegotiable!?

everything is negotiable, everything with out doubt. The point is that whether it is the appropriate time and correct person for negotiation or not. The time that you called something nonnegotiable, you automatically are banning the freedom of expression. It means nobody has the right to discuss the matter. The moral and ethic tell us we should respect others belief and opinion even if we do not like them. We can reject each-others opinions by reasoning but no offending.

By ripping knowledge..

No my dear! Church had no knowledge and never produced any. It actually banned science. Western countries got science by ripping knowledge from the clutches of those regions that today some of us see them inferior and savage. (it is apart from the matter of oil and its shocking story that make those who know surprised of what we did to each other for oil) The time that science had banned in western, it was progressing speedy in eastern countries and the interesting thing that I found in my studies was the existence of freedom, particularly religious one, in those regions as well. The difference is that the western countries has experience the interference of church and religion in their every day lives and reached the conclusion that they should release themselves of the authority of church. but many of eastern countries are experiencing at present time. As far as I know, when church was killing people because of their anti god or biblical ideas, sex or even a piece of scientific fact ( for example, it is earth which turns around sun not sun around earth) Nobody force Western people to change their opinion. The change was the out come of very personal experience.I think the same should be done for today's problematic regions. we need to be patient with them. we do can criticize god, prophet and everything; even so, a criticism for being effective should be constructive and empty of offending. In no place in the world and for no wise human being an offending ,non constructive and based on rage criticism is welcome. Be sure such a criticism is subjected and refused in every place in the world.

in conclusion, Any fear of losing freedom is more like a delusion. The foundation of freedom and democracy did not construct at one night to be destroyed easily and only by keeping silent. Those who shout: Oh Freedom, Ah freedom, it went on the wind; either have the bad habit of closing their eyes close and shouting regularly (being emotional and instead of rational) or targeting other purposes such as cheating you and me and keeping us busy. Sometime silence is golden as it can prevent unreasonable conflict and it can give opportunity to both sides to think more before being lost in their rage and hate. Force causes the appearance of hate and anger.An angry and hateful person is blind to everything and resist against any change.

@rouzi

Bullshit.

Sure you're free to criticize anyone for criticizing something else.

But you're not free to threaten to kill anyone for it. Or for drawing caricatures of any holy figure, however tasteless insensitive or inappropriately timed.

That is non-negotiable.

I am wondering if you speak without using an inappropriate word in your comments. It is very good if you do that. It is really appreciated.

Instead of bullshit , you could tell i think your idea is not correct.

I think you may want to read my comment once more because I did not say that you can treat anybody. In fact I ask to do not treat , ridicule and insult but use reasoning to reject other opinion and meanwhile be open to accept that we can have wrong opinion as well.

You are absolutely not free to kill. I cannot remember that i said anybody has the right to kill. But the reality of outside world is telling me that they are people who do that. They are even some who choose it as a job.

Then, it is negotiable because somebody think that he has the right of killing other. Therefor, the matter is negotiated in criminal psychology to find the wills, thoughts, intentions and reactions of murderer.

Everything is without doubt negotiable. The question is where, when and with who.

If you say that there is a foundation or principle and so on that under no circumstances are negotiable, you are in fact doing the same thing that for example those religious people are doing. They tell our principle, which is in this case about religion, are not negotiable and nobody has the right even tell anything about.

it is the time that i have to tell there is no difference in term of behavioral psychology.

@ rouzi

You wrote "If you say that there is a foundation or principle and so on that under no circumstances are negotiable, you are in fact doing the same thing that for example those religious people are doing. "

I disagree. I am talking about non-negotiable foundations of western culture. Those people from other religions can do or think whatever they want in their own countries. But if they choose to come here, then they have to accept our freedom of speech. When I say it's non-negotiable I mean it is a hard-won right that it would be a catastrophe for us to fritter away because of the actions of violent extremists who come from other countries and exploit our generosity.

See, culture is simply combination of habits, although it has adnexas like customs. Culture as habits can be simply right or wrong, it would not be surprise if you find a bad habits in a culture. In reality, all culture comprise of bad and good habits and western culture is not an exclusion. Based on this discussion whenever we need a change we can freely negotiate the foundation of our cultures and change it accordingly. In fact it is what we are doing in western countries regularly, such as introducing new laws, planning to teach a new habit to society or unlearning a previous bad habit. Even the foundations sometime need repair or revise and if it is too old needy of change. The thing that in fact has made western countries advance is their authorities' openness toward changes. It is not difficult to think that if somebody was born and lived in one of those undeveloped countries instead of Europe , he or she could act similar with them. I do accept that people who come here should accept the laws and not only the laws but also the culture and behavior as well. Even so, if acceptance for human being was so easy, we really could have a wonderful world. For a person that even talking about sex is consider awkward , an abrupt facing with people who think it is simply an emotion in motion is not really easy to accept. As for you would be never easy to accept his opinion or even do not like to hear. it is correct that they may have something in their mind which is not match with reality but acceptance is not an easy task and for some people may never achieve . Maybe the Swedish government policy about migration which mainly accept people from the lowest possible social class, people who are practically problem even in their own countries explain situation better to us. Violence,extremists &.. are part of our world and a world without theses things is not much probable because there are always damaged people who will damage others. Fear as a trait that accompanied us from birth is the reason for very aggressive behavior. for example, a Muslim terrorist who kills because of insulting god or prophet the idea is that god gave me the duty to eliminate such a person and if do not do that i will punish. The idea that completely construction of his mind and has no connection with outside reality. Based on this fear if me and you trap by fear about freedom or any principle we can act aggressively as wel( A good example for this type of behavior is the Norwegian guy). If we do not act harshly it is mainly because we do not have much fear and today it is us who is powerful or at least it is what we think.Any way , our fear of losing sometimes causes us to act strangely. freedom is part of life and nobody can take it from us. if you look clearly you see many of people of those countries that extremists come from are even trying to reach freedom. we are enough strong to defend and change our values without aggression and offending.

@rouzi, at what age were you brainwashed??

I agree that the Swedish migration policy of allowing large numbers of poorly documented people with poor to nonexistent education and potential criminality even in their home countries is a huge cause of problems in Sweden.

I fully believe Sweden needs to overhaul its entire system, stop accepting refugees who have transited other signatory nations, stop accepting people who have discarded their passports, and put the best of Sweden first when deciding on quotas. Look at job skills, values, education when prioritizing.

Refugees from wars should just flee over the border to the nearest neighbor. Political refugees should be very well documented to come over.

@flintis

As soon as I found the habit of asking why and finding the answers with hearing or seeing an event ,

Even so, as you used the word brainwashing, I want to attract your attention to the fact that brainwashing can be simply negative and positive. in other word, one can simply accept and convince him or herself to see the world from behind a black and white glass or a natural glass that allows seeing all colors.

I prefer a natural glass as it is allowed me to see the world as it really is.

@big5

Thank you for your comment enjoyed reading that. only I wanted to add this fact that immigrants can be considered as a small society inside another society. Therefore, the existence of criminality in a society should be seen normal to some extent. there is possibility to reduce the problem with changing the migration policy but anyhow some part of a society will act against laws.

@rouzi

You say " brainwashing can be positive". Really?

Are you insane? What the heck is wrong with you, mate?

Go away.

"Ludde Svensson

Yes why not! If somebody dose not use brainwashing against others or for personal advantages or cheating people, it can be positive.

Example, brainwashing an extremist in positive way to stop his or her damaging deed.

Naturally we are automatically brain washed by our society and parent from the time of birth. we are doing many thing every day even without thinking once that why we are doing them. Some are neg and some are positive.

I understand that this world ( or a world like manipulation) has a negative charge stereotypically but it can be used in the way of modification. If I could convince an extremist that he is wrong, in fact I have washed the wrong thoughts out of his mind and replaced them with correct thought.

Then, i say that the brain should be washed, another way should be thought ;)

Eurabia 2020. Sverabia? Perhaps sooner.

Comment by ctinej? Absolutely.