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Few Swedes ready to work until they're 75: poll

Published: 8 Feb 12 08:25 CET | Double click on a word to get a translation
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/38980/20120208/

An overwhelming majority of Swedes disagree with Swedish prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt's suggestion that workers should be ready to stay on the job until they are 75, a new poll shows.

In a survey carried out by the Novus polling firm for Sweden's TV4, 73 percent answered no when asked if they thought Sweden's retirement age should be raised to 75.

Twenty percent of those polled supported the idea, while 7 percent were uncertain.

“It's too long. If someone's been working since they were 18, then it's enough to work until they're 65,” worker Stefan Nyman told TV4 when asked if he could imagine to work until he was 75.

The survey comes following comments by Reinfeldt, published on Tuesday in the Dagens Nyheter (DN) newspaper, in which the prime minister said Sweden's workers shouldn't expect to be able to retire at 65.

“The pensions scheme isn’t based on magic. It is a welfare ambition based on large-scale re-distribution and citizens’ own work. If people think that we can live longer and shorten our work life, then pensions will get lower,” he told DN.

Reinfeldt went on to say that Swedes may have to stretch their working life to 75 years of age if they want to maintain the same standard of living as while working.

Sweden has a flexible retirement age, where workers can begin drawing on their pension at 61 or keep working until 67. Of Swedes over 65 years old, 7.8 percent were employed in 2010, according to Statistics Sweden.

On Tuesday union representatives slammed the proposal, arguing that it was not feasible for workers to stay on the job until the age of 75.

According to the Novus/TV4 poll, women are more negative (81 percent) toward working until 75 than men (65 percent).

In addition, 86 percent of blue collar workers were opposed to the idea, compared with 72 percent of white collar workers.

Only 7 percent of those polled thought Sweden's retirement age should be raised to 75 or above, while 43 percent thought 70 was an appropriate retirement age and 44 percent supported a retirement age of 67.

TT/The Local/dl (news@thelocal.se)

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#1
08:56 February 8, 2012 by Kevin Harris
Is anyone really suprised? People are going to have to understand that over the past 50 years, not enough money was paid in, too much money was drawn out, and soon the national pension pot will run out of money. That is not Reinfeldt's fault, that is the fault of those who came before him and gave it all away. Now the current young are going to have to subsidise the extravagence of the old by paying in more, taking out less, and taking it out later.
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#2
09:15 February 8, 2012 by Douglas Garner
@Harris... exactly! Reinfeldt is talking about quality and standard of living expectations when it comes to pension time. This is also not just a Swedish issue as it holds true for all industrialized nations.

There are certainly complications involved... we need a culture that recognizes what jobs can or possibly should not be continued after a certain point, just as we need to recognize that not all young folks are ready for management positions upon college graduation. Union regulations will need to change in recognition that people are allowed to continue working. Incentives should be put into place which encourage qualified workers to continue as well.

I am 60 and in the prime of my life in many aspects. At the same time, current culture suggests that I am too old to enter into a new team as I would only be there for the short term. I have no ambition to retire at 65 and plan to work until 70 and then continue with community involvement until I no longer can contribute. This is not a financial decision, but necessary for my mental health and to satisfy my personal ambitions. If I can... I will.
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#3
09:32 February 8, 2012 by StockholmSam
Of course there will be resistance. Reinfeldt is asking for a tremendous cultural shift.

He is right, of course. The 65-year retirement limit was set when people lived, on average, to about 70. Today, it is not unusual for people to live until their mid-80s. Current retirement benefits cannot support a huge segment of the population for 20 years after they stop working! That is an unsustainable model. Plus, our workforce is shrinking. The only way to get young workers to support the retired workers is to get new workers, either by importing them (immigrants) or by keeping workers in the labor force longer, which is Reinfeldt's proposal.

My parents are both 83. My dad retired when he was 70. My mom is still working! And I tell you this, it keeps her young and fit both physically and mentally.

The big challenge for Sweden now, however, is to create jobs for the expanded workforce. If people stay in their positions until 75, that closes off many job opportunities for those coming from behind, especially fresh graduates.

This is an excellent argument for privatized pensions as the state cannot hope to maintain support for this retirement model much longer.
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#4
10:00 February 8, 2012 by RobinHood
"This is an excellent argument for privatized pensions as the state cannot hope to maintain support for this retirement model much longer." - Stockholm Sam

If you are under 60 and don't already make substantial contributions into a private pension fund. Why not? The happy days will soon be over. Those who trusted past government promises about generous pensions for all - for ever, were naive. The socialist politicians who told you this knew the truth back then, extracted huge pensions for themselves, and hoped to die before the money ran out. Look after yourself as best you can, don't trust shifty politicians to do it for you.
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#5
10:15 February 8, 2012 by Avin a go
If the country cut the red tape on employment law, lessened the tax burden on employers, promoted its agricultural industry, relied less on imports, invested in rural areas - then you might see enough jobs created to support the current retirement age.

How can a 70 year old, work as effectively and efficiently as a 20,30,40 year old?Why would they want to? and how can they maintain enthusiasm for a job, when they are just waiting for the opportunity to retire?

The governments priority should be tackling youth unemployment, not milking a few more years out of the elderly.
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#6
10:44 February 8, 2012 by Great Scott
@Kevin Harris

"That is not Reinfeldt's fault", of course it is, who keeps lowering taxes. Reinfeldt's tax cutting exercise to give tax breaks for better off has come unstuck. Where do people get the idea that pensions are paid for by what they have paid in the past, if this was the case pensions would be nothing due to inflation over the years. When pensions first started do you think there was this big pot of money coming out of nowhere to pay for pensions?

The problem here is simple, the better off hate to contribute some of the money they have taken from lesser off.

Why should people that have worked hard all their lives be told to carry on working, this is not about pensions, it's about making the better off fatter. If taxes are paid fairly by all then there is no reason to extend the working age.

On top of all that, employers don't even want take on over 50's today, so what's it going to be like, people between 65 and 75 will be classed as unemployed. Yes I forgot they can join Reinfeldt's phase 3 atrocities and work for free.

With no increase in jobs over that 10 year period, what are the school leavers going to do, stay at school for another 10 years.

We must stop living life like it's some sort of pyramid scheme where the less well off pay for the better off. Stamp out greed.

@ RobinHood

As usual you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Private pension schemes always seem to go bust or for some other reason or it's not worth what it was, how strange.

@Avin a go

The later part of your comment is bang on, get agriculture going and solve unemployment. Stop importing oil and ethanol, grow rape seed and run cars on diesel.
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#7
10:55 February 8, 2012 by jostein
The problem Reinfeldt is faced with is that he and former governments have imported 500 000+ people that have a higher tendency to tax evasion and that to varying degrees are not employable to the regular sector. If they work, they work in the black sector, when they shop, they shop taxfree in their own shops in their own areas. At the same time they consume social services and wellfare to an even higher degree than the taxpaying part of the population. This taxfree sector has been discussed a little bit lately due to the shootings in malmö. Read for example Reepalos call to avoid the imported black sector covered in a recent article on thelocal:

http://www.thelocal.se/38974/20120207/

So what is Reinfeldt to do? Since he understands that his power over the noneuropean immigrants is limited and because they to a large extent lack the skills for the white sector of swedish economy, he tries to force the european part of the population that he actually wield power over to work longer.
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#8
10:56 February 8, 2012 by CJ from Sunshine Desserts
As an example my father in law was retired for more than 20 years up to the point when he died, he took early retirement before 65, OK so he worked for about half of his life, but it illustrates the problem for Sweden. As I said before, the flaw in Rhinefeldts plan is how to get young people into their first jobs & career ladders.....can`t happen if people have to work for 50+ years to get 70% of final salary .....
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#9
11:03 February 8, 2012 by RobinHood
@Great Scott

Suit yourself. Spend your retirement in grinding poverty if you want to. You can take a bus tour up to my place and see how I'm getting on. No eggs for you, I promise, just a happy smile.
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#10
11:48 February 8, 2012 by Great Scott
@RobinHood

I don't have to worry about my pension, I have enough money to keep myself and my family happy when I retire. I have worked my life and paid my taxes, I have not wasted money on elaborate things I don't need. I do not suffer from jealousy nor do I try to keep up with the Joneses. I have earned my happiness not paid for it nor have I been taxed on it. But I do have one passion in life and that is to end GREED.
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#11
11:55 February 8, 2012 by Avin a go
@ jostein I'm presuming your serious with your argument and not just playing devils advocate?

In summary you are saying non-european immigrants are less skilled, criminals whereas their european counterparts are skilled law abiding citizens.

The black market for goods and services underpins Swedish society, I don't know of a single person who doesn't sell items cash-in hand, or pay for labour cash-in hand. Why are there so many polish builders working in this country?

The non-european immigrants are equally as skilled as there Swedish counterparts, the only difference is they aren't offered jobs, therefore they have no choice but to claim benefits. Beyond studying an introductory coarse to Swedish (SFI), they are not offered integration assistance.

There is no government plan to get immigrants working, there is no desire for Swedish society in general to get them working. The general consensus is label them useless thieves and hope that your not proved wrong.
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#12
12:42 February 8, 2012 by dott
Good news! So we can increase refugee number and save the people from all over the world!
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#13
12:52 February 8, 2012 by Douglas Garner
The solution as Avin a go suggests in the last paragraph is to develop functioning programs which can train, assimilate, and stimulate young workers, immigrants, and a system which accommodates semi/part time retirement. That is where we should be focusing our energy, not on just individual sector issues.

Don't you just love it when people blame "Reinfeldt" or any other government's leader for all the problems! Just because he is the leader does not mean he creates the regulations... that is a joint effort of parliament or congress depending upon where you live. To think otherwise is just foolish and partisan.
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#14
13:07 February 8, 2012 by acidcritic
Swedes, norvegians and european in general, are living inside a buble. That is to say, they are living outside the real world. Climate Change will modify all relationships between countries as well as between people and their states. Hard-time, war policies, policies are going to remain forever. There will be no place for luxuries anymore. The idea of a worlwide welfare state is wholy unsustainable. The natural resources of the planet are not enough to support more populations living in an american- swedish life style. Therefore, swedes and other europeans as well as americans, have to get used to work until they are 75. In a few years from now they will have to get used to lower wages. In 20 or 30 years to less and less food and so on. Please, the last man standing close the door.
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#15
13:23 February 8, 2012 by Avin a go
@ acidcritic I "mostly" agree. Medicine, vaccinations, diet, living standards have created an overpopulated world. Resources are scarce, we either change the way we consume or face a very bleak future.

We do still have choice though, I have a small holding and try to be as self-sufficient as possible, I'll retire only when poor health forces me to do so.
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#16
13:42 February 8, 2012 by RobinHood
@Great Scott

"I don't have to worry about my pension"

Just what we need, another champagne socialist flashing his ample wad in front of those less fortunate than himself.

Your credibility as a horny-handed, working-class hero is somewhat diminished. Your reputation as just another hypocritical socialist rich boy is confirmed.
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#17
13:43 February 8, 2012 by update-2011
Why 75? If they have to work until 75, then it should be with in something like 'coaching/training' younger employees so that they take over the 75 year old's place. Other wise, how can a person as old as 75 be efficient? no way!!!
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#18
13:47 February 8, 2012 by Mb 65
Why should the old work into their 70's, they have worked long and in harsher conditions. when the young and immigrants sit on their backsides and take all the government handouts. Just remember you will all be old sooner than you think.
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#19
13:54 February 8, 2012 by Puffin
Perhaps they should start with the Ministerial pension system that allows Reinfeldt personally to retire at 50! and get a pension of 144,000kr/month

Ministers can retire at 50 and get 114,000kr/month

In fact all MPs that have served 12 years get 37,600kr until their 65th birthday
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#20
14:03 February 8, 2012 by HYBRED
It looks like Reinfeldt floated the 75yr old knowing that it wasn't going to fly. 70 is probably more realistic to him. And by the looks of the poll numbers people are a lot more willing to accept 70,thinking they are making a deal, but not realizing they are still getting screwed if it happens. Oldest sales trick in the book, raise the price and then deal and everyone gets what they want.
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#21
14:14 February 8, 2012 by Mb 65
I agree 100% with Puffin & Hybred.
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#22
14:18 February 8, 2012 by jostein
@Avin a go

"There is no government plan to get immigrants working, there is no desire for Swedish society in general to get them working."

There was no desire in general in swedish society that they should come here in the first place. The only part of swedish society that desired it was the journalists and media who manhandled the political class into their policy.

If you wish to revolutionize swedish society through humongous non-european immigration, it would have been a good ide to get an ok from the people first. They didnt. And here we are.
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#23
14:24 February 8, 2012 by Roy E
Moving the finish line. That's sure to be popular.

But it really shouldn't be a surprise to anybody who has been living the Swedish contradiction. There really is no such thing as a free lunch. Everything must be paid for in one way or another.
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#24
14:34 February 8, 2012 by Avin a go
@ Jostein I admire your honesty its refreshing.

Why are you happy for european immigration to continue but are opposed to non-european immigration?
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#25
15:17 February 8, 2012 by Youdee
@ Avin a go said at the top of this discussion: "How can a 70 year old, work as effectively and efficiently as a 20,30,40 year old?"

You'd be surprised. My husband and I are in our 60s, and our younger colleagues are AMAZED at how quickly and effectively we get work done. I just tell them that I've been "stretching" my brain a little longer and that with time, they'll be up to speed ;-D
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#26
15:28 February 8, 2012 by Avin a go
@ Youdee At 70 though the brain turns to mush! ;O

If your are a manual worker though its not as easy, brain might still be fit for a fight, but your knees aren't going to follow!
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#27
15:47 February 8, 2012 by Mb 65
Reinfeldt and his chauffeur were out and drove the car out in the countryside in the small town of forests. The accident was reached, and they drove over a pig. Horrified, thinking about what to do. Came to the conclusion that the man must go to the farmer and tell about what has happened.

The driver was instructed to step in and tell us. He was away for some time but then came out, rufsig in the hair and the clothes in disarray, with a ciggar in one hand and a bottle of wine in the other.

Reinfeldt asked what happened and why he had been gone for so long. The driver missed the answer, but figured that he must tell the truth. I was given a cigar by the man in the House and a bottle of wine from his wife. I also got "put on" their 25-year-old daughter.

Reinfeldt's comments:-but how did you get it?, faan

The driver replied: "I said I worked as chauffeur to Reinfeldt and I drove over the pig.
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#28
18:26 February 8, 2012 by Steggles
Will Reinfeldt be working at 75?

No.....he will be happily retired in a few years with a huge pay out!
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#29
21:00 February 8, 2012 by susan.javaheri
My dad is 76 and he gets up at 5am every morning to go to work and gets home at 6pm. He's a doctor. He doesnt need o work but chooses to work hard and I'm so glad he does. He loves it and enjoys it. And it's good for him to keep busy and his mind working! Why not? If you can work then you should!
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#30
09:51 February 9, 2012 by Great Scott
@RobinHood

What is it with you, can you not read or understand, maybe you should take a closer look at what I am saying before you put your brain into the wrong gear. As for being "hypocritical", you are the pot calling the kettle black, Robin Hood was a national hero, one who took from the rich and gave to the poor. That makes you (and what I read from your other posts) nothing the greedy selfish hypocrite.

If we follow your way of thinking, as well as that clueless fool Reinfeldt, the world will end up in anarchy.

The world is now over populated, the internet has a huge influence in the way the world is now run.

People are sick and tired of greed and the way they are being used as pawns. The world's wealth must be shared more equally. Sweden's decline in standards is because of the shift of wealth, it is because of that cuts are being made (a vicious circle). This stupid idea to increase the working age is only so you will pay more tax (after tax cuts had been made), and in turn will be given to the better off.

Reinfeldt and company = greed, poverty, homelessness, anarchy = revelation.

Remember Thatcher, Mrs GREED. She played the people against the people.

The only way forward is to increase taxes for those earning too much.

My mother and father died before they reached 65, they saw nothing of their pensions.
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#31
11:46 February 9, 2012 by robban70226
It is very simple proposition, die before you can retire and never collect anything you contributed all your working life, sweet plan for the goverment.
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#32
12:00 February 9, 2012 by canadianhere
Sweden!

75 to retire!

We here in North America, particularly Canada, constantly point to the Scandinavin countries as what our 'social models' should be versus the 'dog eat dog' American model conservatives want to enact.

I will admit I am not familiar with the financial situation in Sweden but there has to be another way.

We here in canada are having our own pension related discussions now that the Conservatives have a majority (due to vote splitting by liberals and new democrats).

If the priorities of the Harper government aren't fairly clear by now you, you've been living under rock.

Everything is driven by the ideology espoused in this Harper speech.

Now, Harper is going to start executing the agenda everyone on the right said he didn't have. You know - the hidden one.

One would like to think that Harper's blustering at the World Economic Forum in Davos Switzerland was simply his continuing attempt to pat himself on the back for no other reason than his very existence.

It was these lines which have everyones' ears pricked up:

more

http://thegallopingbeaver.blogspot.com/
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#33
16:38 February 9, 2012 by strixy
Norwegian government has recently changed the pension law leaving nice pensions for themselves but not for the younger generations. They knew it from the start that the system would not be sustainable but hey, they are okay so who cares? I am just surprised to see how many people believe in these fairy tales. Like they are incapable of doing their own math and decide to believe a guy on tv instead.
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#34
01:03 February 11, 2012 by shinnam
Well maybe people can fund their own retirement with all the money they save with the reduction in Restaurant MUMS.

As an American refugee, I hope that Swedes decide the right wing are for the rich.
Report abuse »
#35
04:25 February 18, 2012 by French Nordman
What of the people who labor hard? The plumbers and electricians who spend their worklives crawling under buildings or contorted into tight spaces? I am 61 and 44 years fo this work has left me in great pain that makes it hard to work anymore. I've even had two surgeries for spinal stenosis and have arthritis. I don't think I could do another nine years of this.
Report abuse »
#36
21:07 February 19, 2012 by IranianAtheist
In academic jobs, many professors are in full working condition at the age of 65. If state forces them to retire, they might plan ahead and flea to USA where they can work until they die.
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