Published: 1 Mar 12 16:32 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/39402/20120301/
A Swedish dog sledder's perceived racist insults ruined a recent reunion of Iranian graduates in Kiruna and left their Sweden-based host "ashamed" of inviting her friends to the country.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
Sweden's ice hockey team won the gold-medal match in the ice hockey World Championships against Switzerland on Sunday night, trouncing the visitors 5-1. READ () »
Gas pipeline firm Nord Stream will hold an information meeting on the Baltic island of Gotland on Monday to introduce a proposal to extend its controversial gas pipeline project. READ () »
The Swedish royal family gathered in the Royal Chapel in Stockholm on Sunday for the publication of the banns of marriage ahead of the wedding of Princess Madeleine and her fiancé Christopher O'Neill. READ () »
Sweden's Green Party is on the rise while support for the Christian Democrats is at the lowest in nearly a decade, according to the latest voter poll. READ () »
A man was detained Sunday morning on suspicion of involvement in a violent jewellery store heist which left three people with gunshot wounds. READ () »
A fire that started on Friday afternoon in a peat bog in southern Sweden has closed down highway traffic and could take weeks to put out, according to local rescue services. READ () »
Emmelie De Forest of Denmark takes over from Sweden's Loreen as the Eurovision Song Contest champion, capping a spectacle that kept Malmö and the rest of Europe cheering on Saturday night. READ () »
The 2013 Eurovision Song Contest Final is live in Malmö, southern Sweden. The Local brings you all the latest news, reactions, and details surrounding Europe's biggest pop music spectacle. READ () »
More news from Germany at thelocal.de
More news from France at thelocal.fr
More news from Norway at thelocal.no
More news from Switzerland at thelocal.ch
Register now for:
> Free use of noticeboard
> Special discounts
> Weekly news roundup
> Unlimited use of discuss
Be British, be sincere and be bold »
"Sweden is a veritable smorgåsbord for UK business. I see our work as a bit like a kind of dragon’s den for both for larger and smaller British companies. It is about matching the UK companies, not with cash, but with Swedish market opportunities." READ »
Your comments about this article:
The comments below have not been moderated in advance and are not produced by The Local unless clearly stated. Readers are responsible for the content of their own comments. Comments that breach our terms and conditions will be removed.
Of course. Swedes are as flawed as anybody else. Why should they be exempt from criticism?
That is my impression of Swedes I have experience so far. But if someone judge a case involving some individuals based on a general information we have about millions of people is called prejudice!
So when it was pointed out that they were uncivilized and behaved like wild things the Iranies started a scuffle? I guess the tour guides got this one right. They called it how they saw it and got beaten for it. I guess they were right. If you get insulted by someone you don`t turn to violence. Atleast not if you are civilized.
There is obviously more to this story then what is being told. I bet these Iranies didn`t act all that friendly. Perhaps they were pissed of that the guide was late and then is spiraled out of control from there. I would like to get the other side of the story. It would be interesting to hear the statements of the other guests aswell.
"The group was aggressive; we have never seen anything like it in all our years here," the tour operator said, adding that other guests were "totally in shock" as the incident unfolded."
These tours get thousands of foreigners from all over the world. They depend on giving good service since they live of the tourism. I hardly belive they would be racist. If they were then we would have heard a bunch of complaints about this earlier. That leads me to think that the group may have acted more aggressively then what this story tells.
"TL:More heated words were exchanged and a scuffle ensued as the Iranians took offence to the insinuation that they were uncivilized animals."
"Migga:So when it was pointed out that they were uncivilized and behaved like wild things the Iranies started a scuffle? I guess the tour guides got this one right. They called it how they saw it and got beaten for it. I guess they were right. If you get insulted by someone you don`t turn to violence. Atleast not if you are civilized. "
Very strange conclusion based on the given sentence! It doesn't say who started the scuffle. I agree with your that facts provided in this article are not totally clear but what's clear is that you are twisting the fact. This is again and tell me how you concluded the started a scuffle! Since there isn't enough details you are not allowed to make details yourselves!
You are right that it doesn`t say who started it. I wanna be clear that it`s my interpertation of it. I hope everyone acknowledge that. I just think that the text indicates that the group was the one that started the scuffle after they were insulted.
It's not better now, but Swedes are more careful not openly express their feelings about foreigner, specially refugees and immigrants from Asia and Africa.
The best way to know the country is to travel around, and try to come in contact with Swedes; even though it may not be easy, but to come in touch with different groups of people is very useful to figure out the Swedish mentality. Most of foreign students don't get much experience of Swedish society outside of educational environment, and the University or schools are specially designed to be suitable for foreigners.
Get out of that environment, and you will learn a lot about Swedes!
When in Nature one should behave quietly and respectfully. If they want to sing and throw kips around they can do it somewhere else.
Well now it's better that you acknowledge it was your interpretation. But I need to add more into this issue. She is saying she felt humiliated. In real world if you are insulted and you retaliate you relieve your anger and disappointment so you feel good. You may want to get credits afterwards by accusing the other side but you never feel humiliated anymore unless you didn't act when the incident took place. This is though a common sense and cannot be proven without further details.
@strixy
I guess it very much depends on the deal they had with the tour. There are many such youth tours I've seen that they end up like this at nights due to alcohol consumption. The ones I saw was sport tour and outside Sweden while the participants were all Swedes.
@calebian
I think her justification is flawed. You cannot prove you don't drink because you are Muslims. Everybody do what they like! But on the other hand it is not clear for me if drinking was allowed in the tour or not. If it was, there is very little to complain about aggressive behavior of a drunk person.
Yeah, I guess you wouldn't want to upset a mushroom by being to loud.
Swedish tourists going skiing in Alps are allowed to whatever they like. They rock the small towns in the Alps with their screams after afterski :D So you are right!
You are the only one who got the whole picture. It seems that all the others are only Swedes trying to defend their nationals, and others trying to look politically correct so they do not appear anti Swedish at all. The whole story goes around racism, whether the posters in this thread like it or not. Plain racism. And it does not matter that the group were from Iran. They could have been from Irak, Somalia or whatever. The behaviour against them would have been the same.
In a country where the word of a Swede is more believable than the word of any foreigner, you can be sure that the criminal will never be a Swede, no matter how he or they behaved.
Swedes' "racism" against foreigners = absolutely not OK, apparently.
Foreigners' "racism" against Swedes = totally OK; why it's in the comments at The Local every single day!
"Instead she was greeted with an unsympathetic retort from owner Mats Rullander."
This means that Mats Rullander had never been in the place of the incident. So, how in the hell can he say that ""There will be no apology. I believe that you are wild things," without having witness what happened? Isn't he insulting her and her group?
"The group was aggressive; we (?) have never seen anything like it in all our years here," the tour operator said, adding that other guests were "totally in shock" as the incident unfolded.
"Everyone is 100 percent (the usual manipulation of percentages in Sweden) sure that some of them were under the influence of drugs. They were screaming and barking (ATTENTION: BARKING) - it was totally wrong."- said Rullander.
Again, how can he declare that "we have never seen like it in all our years here" without having been a witness of the incident?
And then he says: "Everyone is 100 percent sure that some of them were under the influence of drugs. They were screaming and barking - it was totally wrong."
Is saying that they were barking not an insult, a serious insult, because dogs bark, but not foreigners, and I am not referring only to the Iranian group?
I believe that the ones who were really barking were Rullander and his employees.
@ Migga. Go and fly a kite. Your comments are so far fetched that they certainly do not belong here. Chinese kites fly further. Buy one. Iraniboy is completely right in what he wrote to you in # 11
"I think that a lot of swarthy foreigners feel inferior in the presence of Swedes, German and English people for example, and this sense of inferiority does tend to make them imagine that they are being looked down on, on occasions when they are not."
Sorry, but I do not think that "swarthy" (nice wording for black. It is more politically correct)foreigners feel inferior in the etc, etc. They feel impotent, not inferior, for not being able to put Swedes in the place they belong. They do not imagine anything; they are being looked down always, not only on occassions. So please, speak the truth or just close your mental diarrhea. You just farted with your brains.
I felt insulted as well but I should confess that I feel good now. I am so happy that I live in a country where we can share this feelings, where people are free to say what happened to them, and it will be published even if it is against their national benefits.
Four years of life experience in Sweden has proved to me that what happened to us in Kiruna is not common at all. Most of Swedes are so developed and civilized people and some apologies here in this page is a sign of their sense of humanity.
I appreciate the freedom of press in Sweden and am so thankful.
Perhaps Mats Rullander was told by his employees what had happend? Perhaps he witnessed their behaviour when they arrived at home base? If he did then perhaps that`s why he use the word "we"?
Perhaps they were barking? What do you call it when a person barks? Perhaps it`s a word thats lost in translation? For example; Modern skällde på sina barn becomes; The mother barked at her children.
My point is that we don`t know. And the reason why we don`t know is because we have only one side of the story. The accusers side of the story. No wonder they try to make the other side look bad. I can`t wait to hear the other side of the story or the other guests version.
But even with this story I don`t see anything worse then insults. And that`s not illegal. What is illegal is if there was violence. I woould like to know more about who started the scuffle and what happend there. Because that`s illegal and if so then it`s news.
You wrote, "Sorry, but I do not think that "swarthy" (nice wording for black. It is more politically correct)foreigners feel inferior in the etc, etc. They feel impotent, not inferior, for not being able to put Swedes in the place they belong. They do not imagine anything; they are being looked down always, not only on occassions. So please, speak the truth or just close your mental diarrhea. You just farted with your brains."
From this quote, it's quite clear that you're uncivilized and wild.
Do you think it is only one side the story? it is not truth. I left all the contact information of the company in my report, They have been called a lot of time. They even accuse us with using drags. What more could they say about it? If there was any more point, they would never missed it in the report.
"This lady will no doubt be headed to the Ombudsman in search of "compensation" for her "trauma." I really appreciate any kind of court for this problem. We have more to say and ways to prove what we claim about. Their only claim about our using drugs will cause them enough trauble.
I undrestand that some worlds might have been miss-undrestood. But I don't undrestand the boss taking the personal back. As I don't undrestand 1 hour delay in a 2:30 hour tour which we have paid 1000 SEK/Person.
The last QUESTION to dear readers who believe that we might deserved what we heard is: "What should a person have done to be called WILD and be threatened to be kicked out of Sweden?" this is what the boss never denied saying
Ugly racism pure and simple from the unapologetic northern peasants.
Hello Ahoo Shokraei.
Yes, I think we are only getting your side of the story. We haven`t heard one word from the tour guides or the other guests.
I bet you were all really pissed of and wildly angry when the tour guide was a whole hour late? Tell me more about this and how you reacted!
I would also like to know more about this scuffle that ensued. Who started it and what happend?
If you think you have been the victim of racism then I suggest you turn to diskrimineringsombundsmannen;
http://www.do.se/
They will investigate your case. Do you have something like this in Iran?
Many, or it might be more correct to say most Swedes are racist. Hjoian in comment #5 is also right, they don't even realize that they are a lot of the time, it's just how things are in Sweden. Racism is just a part of life here.
It's quiet some of the time with looks, rudeness and exclusion from mainstream and private society.
It can also be more obvious; today for example, I was at a group meeting at a government run office and some guy was complaining about the "jävla turk ungar" playing outside his home. He said this in front of a group of about 15 people and everyone (except me) laughed! I was shocked and plan on speaking with someone about it when I return on Monday.
Sometimes it downright obvious, aggressive and creepy. To see that all you have to do is go out to any pub during the weekend and wait for people to get a couple of drinks in them. That's when you hear tons of nasty stories and jokes about "sv#rtskallar and n#gers."
I'm also not surprised at all that the guides assumed that nobody there understood Swedish since they were foreigners and non-white on top of it. I've heard Swedes say rude things multiple times to myself and others, then laugh and say "de förstår inte svenska."
The guides saying that they were loud and barking probably actually meant that they were louder than non-drunk Swedes talking, laughing and having a good time. That's a pretty common concept throughout the world that seems to be completely alien to many Swedes.
It be nice if things changed, but that's probably not going to happen here for a few more generations.
good questions.
FIrst when they were about 30 minutes late, we went back inside the house. When they arrived they started shouting at us that it is already late and we should hurry up. We thought the tour will last longer instead. There were no reason to complain, this can happen in cold Kiruna. We only realized it when we came back exactly on time!!
There were no physical conflict. The first time the woman called us wild we tried to ignore it. When the young man started shouting at a friend in the middle of no where, my friend asked him to be polite first. But when he said that he can talk in the way he wants, they started talking loudly all together. If you are swedes you probably know that any kind of physical fight will report to police with no delay.
The real problem started when we went back and I asked to talk to the owner. After the first sentence I told him, "they should apologize because called us wild people and..." he said that "there will be no apology because I also believe that you deserved it" the rest of conversation between me and him was in the normal manner.
I repeat my question now, What kind of behavior explains being called "WILD"? I want to know your opinion.
"When in Nature one should behave quietly and respectfully."
"Yeah, I guess you wouldn't want to upset a mushroom by being to loud."
In case you have skipped biology lessons, wilderness is inhabited by wild animals and scaring them is simply unnecessary.
I know certain grop of people that does not respect nature nor animals as they are 'impure' but well, it's always easy to play the racist card.
If the comments were racist then it was unnecessary but telling them off for annoying the hard-working dogs and disturbing Nature was totally justified.
@HYBRED
Of course people shouldn't disturb mushrooms by singing around the fire and if they do it justifies calling a human being a wild animal.
And you say it was 30 minutes and not an hour? Hmm I guess it`s another thing the article got wrong.
Now I wonder if there is something else that might not be true.
I`d say that a wild behaviour depends on the situation. If you are on a concert, being loud and jumping around is normal and not wild.
If you are on a tour in the middle of the night in nature then I would think that the normal behaviour would be to stay calm, reserved and keep a low talking volym. It`s not really the surroundings to be singing, being loud, tossing cigarettes around or have a reunion party with friends.
I guess the person who should explain what kind of behavior is wild is the one who said so. But if the tour guide said you were wild because of your behaviour and not because of the colour of your skin then it`s not racist.
But after she said you were wild one of your friends got angry apperently?
"The comment prompted one of Shokraei's friends to react angrily."
What happend there? It seems the owner was right when he said you acted aggresively. Even tho it was after you were called "wild".
"No Migga. They only have good doctors, nice people, nuclear facilities and they are the true aryans of the world, not the Germans nor the Swedes. Your comment makes me think that you are in the payroll of The Local. Now you want to know the 5 W's and the one How. Beautiful. I suggest you to go to a shrink to clean up your grey matter, that is, if you still have one. Please Migga. Once upon a time, a read good comments written by you, but it seems that your intellect has ceased to exist."
If Iran is so great why is it that it's Iranians that want to emigrate to Sweden not the other way round?
They usually just throw their butts on the ground where someone else has to clean up their mess. I have no pitty for the insults. Probably well deserved.
We should replace the word racist with reputation.
"Of course people shouldn't disturb mushrooms by singing around the fire and if they do it justifies calling a human being a wild animal."
You are doing youself very little favour by displaying such arrogant attitude,
Ever heard "when in Rome, do as Romans do"? As guests in Sweden you should have respected its natural heritage, it is a big thing in Sweden after all. Throwing ciggy butts is not acceptable and had you done it in front of me, I would have told you off too.
Overall, I get the impression that this was ill-planned from the beginning. A forest is not a good place for a loud reunion. As someone quite rightly pointed out, there is a certain way of behaving when entering thr wilderness at night. Those who don't get it don't have to go there.
If you behaved disrespectfuly, you were rightly told off for doing so. End of story.
It is always nice and easy to play the racist card but believe me, I have called people 'wild' (and worse) many times when they were drunk and were barking at my dogs in the middle of the night. The majority of those people were as white as the snow we were standing on.
'Wild' describes a behaviour not skin colour. Get over it.
Wonder if when back in the city they bark in the middle of the night at their neighbor's dogs?
As for the Iranians, if they are upset over their perceptions of their treatment, they should publicize it, tell their friends, and let them decide whether they wish to visit Sweden or not.
You are quick to criticize the Iranian's for being loud around the campfire and disturbing nature, but you make no mention of the Swede's yapping sled dog's doing the same. Is that racist? When I go out into nature I am respectful and leave only my footprints. And of course try and bring something back to put on my Weber grill.
" If Iran is so great why is it that it's Iranians that want to emigrate to Sweden not the other way round?"
I did not write that Iran was "so great". Please read properly. Answering your question, I will tell you that Iranians, Iraqis, Palestinians, Lebanese, Afghans want to emigrate not only to Sweden, but to other countries if they could, because the situation is not very pleasant in the Middle East. Or, do you think that Norway, Finland, Denmark, Germany, France, Great Britain and Holland do not have Iranians, Iraqis, Palestinians, Lebanese and the whole bunch of people from those nationalities that want to avoid starvation and being killed in the ever-growing war conflicts in the zone?
Why do you think that more than a million Swedes immigrate to the United States many, many decades ago? If they had stayed in Sweden, they would have starved sooner than you think.
So people emigrate from one country to another in the search of a better life or simply because they follow the old say that "the grass looks greener in the neighbor's yard".
03:06 March 2, 2012 by ctinej
"I had to sit next to an Iranian at a theater once. He smelled soooooooo bad that I could hardly stay there. Cigarette stench was the worst."
You sound like DiegoP. By just looking at him you decided that he was Iranian, not Iraqi, not Palestinian, not Afghan, not Lebanese, BUT IRANIAN. And then we have people here suggesting that there is no racism in Sweden.
With your very intelligent comment you wanted to contribute more to the image the majority has been portraying here that the Iranians of the group were the guilty ones and not the Swedes insulting them. You expect that if someone is insulted or badly treated by a Swede, the one being insulted should not react at all and must accept everything because he is in the navel of the world.
Two....and then many who are under the delusion that they are cultured.
Even though based on this article it does not seem that you and your friends were totally innocent, I have a suggestion for you:
Go back to your country Iran and see how "the people from your homeland" treat you in your daily life. I'm sure you gonna miss Sweden and Swedish people.
Nowhere in this world is perfect and not all people are kind, but for sure Swedish people are among those people who mostly respect foreigners.
Thank you for your very nice and wise advice. I am sorry that we people from developing countries come here and ruin your nice calm life! We were all tourists or students, spending our money here. but anyway thanks for your hospitality!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Did you get a chance to see my comment? It`s #51.
@ whiteline
Nice selfhate. So because they are international master students they can behave any way they want because most locals are hillbillies or racists if they tell the guests to behave? You are ridiculous. I bet that there is a sizeable fraction of people from Iran who can behave wild and aggresive. Even if they are international master students.
If I was in africa on a tour in the middle of the night I would listen to the guide. I wouldn`t be singing, shouting, barking at the camels, tossing cigarettes around and smoking in that kind of surrounding. And if the guide told me to behave I would shut up and do what I was told. The last thing I would do would be to react angrly.
"Thank you for your very nice and wise advice. I am sorry that we people from developing countries come here and ruin your nice calm life! We were all tourists or students, spending our money here. but anyway thanks for your hospitality!"
When in Rome do as Romans do. I have spent a long time travelling also to countries of entirely different culture than where I am from and I cannot imagine myself behaving like you did. The key is to observe the locals and behave in a similar way. If you wanted to be loud, maybe a night club would have been a better idea.
Littering is frowned upon, so throwing ciggy butts around was simply low. You ought to leave the place as you found it.
Regardless of the amount of money you spend, you ought to respect the hosts and their environment. This is a universal rule of every traveller.
In case you do not know, the forests are inhabited by a large amount of wild animals. Nature is respected in Scandinavia and your personal beliefs matter little because as a guest, you should 'do as Romans do'. Try going to the forest at night an remaining quiet, you will be surprised how many animals you'll meet that otherwise you'd scare away with your loud behaviour.
ahoo79, I would add that the next time you travel and behave badly, do not seek a wider audience to publicize your misdeeds as you have done here in consort with thelocal.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ! ! !
No greater hypocrites that religious puritan abtemious extremists, of all faiths. They preach to the world, then break every rule in the book behind closed doors.
I read your comment. It is good to go further to the details. thought NOTHING can explains their behaviour and calling us "Wild people", and mentionin our "Race" to humilate us.
I didn't say they were 30 minutes late. I said after 30 minutes we went back inside to wait there.
the next point that you don't pay any attention is the threat, who is allowed to tell others, they he will kick them out of his country?? Even the migrations officer, when rejecting people, ot the police when deporting people, don't talk like this.
You're thinking like a civilized person. They aren't "allowed" to behave like that, they just do. I'd tell you how to drive a case against them if I could, but I'm not sure where you'd start without being misunderstood by the authorities in the same fashion. If you got lucky with the local newspaper (Norrländska Socialdemokraten) and managed to get your story out then that might do it.
If Swedish tourists were traveling abroad and behaved as obnoxious as ahoo79 et. al. and the local tourist service entities were just as shocked by their behavior as the people in Sweden were shocked by the behavior of ahoo79 et. al. would this be a case of cultural racism as portrayed in your few short paragraphs that for thelocal.se amounts to an expose? Or would this be just another case of 30+ year old students trying to push an over charged race card mistakenly believing the rest of the world is ignorant and that people will believe them?
Do they speak with a pack of dogs?
365 days a year? In what language?
I can see that the ones barking were
the Swedes and not the Iranians. At
-35, their (Swedes) brains are almost
frozen; no wonder they (again, the
Swedes) bark.
09:47 March 2, 2012 by EP
Thanks EP. Damn good description
of the majority of the Swedes.
12:52 March 2, 2012 by cogito
On the dot, as usual! Few words,
great content.
14:01 March 2, 2012 by nightwolf
Your are a shame for the wolfs. Your last
paragraph shows how one sided you are.
Perhaps Migga is your relative.
14:47 March 2, 2012 by whiteline
Good for you. Right on target, whether Migga
likes it or not.
16:18 March 2, 2012 by Migga
If you were in Africa I would like to ask a lion to devour you, but no. The poor lion might get diarrhea. Farfetched comments and, as usual,one sided.
16:41 March 2, 2012 by strixy
As always, you are jumping into conclusions. You are accusing @ahoo79 for something that has not even been proved to be truth. Almost everything you wrote is what the bunch of Swedes said and you do not give @ahoo79 the benefit of the doubt.
That is not fair, or is it?
17:06 March 2, 2012 by entry
You are distilling racism.
17:14 March 2, 2012 by IranianAtheist
You meant Sweden, right?
19:14 March 2, 2012 by johan rebel
You too, Brutus?
20:18 March 2, 2012 by ahoo79
You are throwing marguerites to pigs. There are
very few who reads and analyses before writing
a comment. Migga is one of their leaders.
O.K. Ladies (?) and Gentlemen (?). Just one
question: How do you measure good or bad
behaviour? We are talking subjectivity here;
ergo: condition of relying upon one's own
personal judgment, lack of objectivity. What
is bad behavior under my viewpoint, I am
Completely sure it is not for another person.
So, what is bad behavior and acting wild?
Before you all jump into conclusions, you should go back to school and start learning some, only some principles of basic logic. Otherwise, please close
your mental diarrhea and try to stop your defense of the unjustifiable.
21:02 March 2, 2012 by entry
YOU WON THE PRIZE! WHAT A JERK YOU ARE.
.
Obviously you haven't spent any int'l trip with Swedes. Go to Alps and see how civilized Swedes behave in their afterskis.
@Ahoo
More than 90% of posters here are not Swedish. So you can by default assume they are not Swedish. It is clueless to discuss with about Sweden.
Obviously your behaviour to shout, sing, bark at the dogs and toss cigarettes around when on tour in nature in the middle of the night was considerd as wild by the tour guide. And I think she may be right in saying so. It`s very uncivilized to react angry towards that.
Who meantioned race? The owner? Wasn`t it your nationality? Of course it`s not nice to be told that you can be kicked out of the country but it`s not illegal. Nothing you have said or that`s written in the article is racist.
But if you feel that way then you can turn to diskrimineringsombudsmannen for compensation;
www.do.se
@ whiteline
There is no misunderstanding. They were behaving wildly while on a tour in nature in the middle of the night and got called out by the tour guide. They then got angry and now they feal insulted when the owner threatend to toss them out of the country. A civilized person don`t behave like that and then call people racists.
"@entry
Obviously you haven't spent any int'l trip with Swedes. Go to Alps and see how civilized Swedes behave in their afterskis."
Iraniboy, how does the obnoxious behavior of ahoo79 et. al. that was outlined here at thelocal.se as ambassadors of Iran play out? And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China or some Swede on a foreign vacation trying to play a race card to attempt others to overlook their bad behavior?
Will the next 30+ or 40+ year old Iranian students benefit by ahoo79 et. al. cultural displays in rural Sweden?
It seems to me that you haven't had any tour with any youth group at any stage of your life. Being out and after midnight almost all such tours turns to a these behaviors. Like I said I have seen it with my own eyes what Swedes behave in such situation so please don't preach me on that. Nobody is expecting a very cultural display at such occasions and even if you do you get very disappointed of Swedes.
Migga your double standards are appalling. You said a person calling another person wild or threatening to kick out of he country is not racist or illegal but calling another racist is uncivilized?! I don't know what is your definition of racism but Nazis and White South Africans had the same argument as you do have now! Good luck with your search for racism!
There is no doubt that the one/s who used the word "Wild" to insult the Iranians has a sick mind and should go to a psychologist urgently! No civilized human talks in this way...Big shame for them!
Respecting the culture and regulations of the country where you live is a MUST regardless of your nationality. So everyone who do not respect those rules must be blamed for! It is ridiculous and immature to mix up this simple and obvious thing with race or civilization of a country which is actually a really different story!
Iran is a nice country with a very rich civilization history. Iranian people living abroad are mostly highly educated and most of them come to Europe,US,Canada,Australia,UK,etc. to continue their studies in upper levels. Most of them are highly motivated and successful ones in the immigrant society. People of Iran have been victims of war and many unfair sanctions and limitations due to political issues. They are kind and friendly as the Swedes are. They respect the country where they live and they are really eager to more integrate and be a useful part of the society.
Try to not judge the people according to the media's news which you are not sure that it is written in subjective way or not! Go and talk to people and give yourself a chance to not be the next sick-minded one!
Yes well, this is as probable explanation as saying 'I am a Christian, I don't rape/steal/murder/cheat etc.'
Laughable.
I have seen Muslims (and Christians) that drink and take drugs.
@ahoo79
"...thought NOTHING can explains their behaviour and calling us "Wild people", and mentionin our "Race" to humilate us."
Race? Aren't you pushing it a bit far here? Iranian is not a race, it is nationality.
Iranians are indo-europeans.... . How inconvenient it may seem, it is true.
I call people wild when they behave wildly= unruly. If you decided it was because of your nationality (not race) then maybe you are a bit oversensitive?
The Merriam-Websted dictionary lists 'unruly' (a (1) : not subject to restraint or regulation : uncontrolled; also : unruly (2) ) as one of the synonyms of 'wild'.
I doubt it is much different in Swedish.
@Ouija
"As always, you are jumping into conclusions. You are accusing @ahoo79 for something that has not even been proved to be truth. Almost everything you wrote is what the bunch of Swedes said and you do not give @ahoo79 the benefit of the doubt."
The only people who have not been given the benefit of the doubt are the hosts.
I think the Iranian guests have had enough opportunity to present their story in The Local without even asking the other side for their imput. Noone forced them to go public with this. As they have, they ought to remember that not everyone may be inclined to agree with them without hearing the whole story first.
All of you who think that we, humans, were really barking there are just like Rullander.
But we were singing, yes, maybe louder than a swedes might sing around the fire. We had a normal human being behaviour, showing and sharing our exitement. If some thinks that it is sick, they should also be in the same familly with Rullander
Any chance some of you were influenced by khat? I am not being nasty here, just asking. I know in the UK many people use it instead of alcohol. it is legal there to use it, not sure about Sweden, hence my question.
Maybe you should just accept that the word 'wild' has many different meanings and refers rather to unruly behaviour than to anyone's origin.
No point in being aggressive and confrontational about assumptions. I have seen people barking at MY dogs, so it is not that extraordinary. I should maybe add that people barking at my dogs were of different origins (namely, Norwegian, Swedish, American and Middle-Eastern so far) and they were all called wild by me. :)
If they made comments about you being sent back to your home country, then this is of course out of order. But again, they probably would have said the same about a bunch of loud French or Polish tourists. While not very polite, it has little to do with racism.
Please stop trying to compare young groups of Swedes partying in clubs during afterski in the Alps with this incident. The ones involved in this case are adults, 30 years old, on a naturetour. But of course there are uncivilized Swedes abroad aswell. And no I don`t have dubble standards, I think the owner acted uncivilized aswell.
In this case I don`t see racism. They where called wild because of their behaviour, not because of their skincolour. Being loud and tossing cigarettes around, what we`ve been told by the one side of the story, is not the proper way to behave in the middle of nature during nighttime. I guess that`s why
the tour guide called them wild.
If alhoo79 has some more information about what racist words were said then I`ll take that into consideration, but as it looks now it`s not racist.
@ underskyofsweden
How can you call the tour guide sick in the head if you weren`t there? Perhaps the group were acting wild and she told them how they behaved? How does
that make her sick in the head? Saying that was out of line and uncivilized but it`s nothing racist or illegal about it. And instead of listening to what the tour guide told them they reacted angrly. I wouldn`t say either part acted civilized. But again it wasn`t racist.
If alhoo79 has some more information about what racist words were said then I`ll take that into consideration, but as it looks now it`s not racist.
You heard the N-word two times in jokingly-fashion? How the hell do you know they were racist and not just crude? Actually alot of people insist they should be able to say "neger" and that it is not racist. Perhaps that's disrespectful but it doesnt mean they have racist intentions.
You know Sweden's black population did NOT come here by slavery.
The ones I saw were 20s, 30s.Now you are telling me I cannot compare merely due to 5 years difference?! Clearly what has been witnessed is widespread among any group of friends on a tour outside. If you judge culture of country based on that ALL countries become wild uncivilized cultures without exception! Just go outside in Stockholm or Gothenburg on Friday/Saturday night and report back to me how Swedish culture works! It is just stupid to talk about culture after midnight.
Racism is not just about picking on skin color. It clearly shows your lack of knowledge in this regard. Racism means you treat people based on their racial background and not heir individual qualifications. When you call someone uncivilized you're pointing at his cultural background not he himself. Saying 'Aha Iran- haha' 'Kick them out of the country' clearly shows their racial dissatisfaction and not their disappointment over these persons.
It was a quiet and calm dog sledding tour in the middle of nature. It`s not in the centre of Stockholm or Gothenburg that the case is about. I said previously that it depends on the situation if your behaviour is wild. If you are being loud and tossing cigarettes around in the club it`s considerd normal and not wild. If you are loud and tossing cigarettes around during a dog sledding tour in nature during nighttime then it`s not normal and someone might think of it as wild.
Well we obviously have different mindsets about what is racism and what`s not. Racism to me is about skin colour and race. It`s not about nationality, culture, religion or tradition.
This has been an eye-opening demonstration of a long term career strategy that I unfamiliar. I can only wonder how it will turn out.
20:12 March 1, 2012 by HYBRED
"I suspect the Swede's were the ones drinking. And they didn't like the Iranians speaking in Arabic. The Swede's decided to shoot off their mouth's, too stupid to realize some of the Iranians spoke Swedish."
Isn't it a beauty? Iranians speaking in Arabic? And then we complain about the culture of other posters. Well, well.
I would not be surprised if someone writes here that Iranians are from Africa and that they live near the city of Ife and that their religion is Yoruba, and that the ones in Kiruna had dark skin and they saw them eating children.
Are you Iranian?
I recognize the attitude.
Before the trip; the guides explain to the tourists, what is allowed, and what is not allowed, for example you don't allow to smoke or don't dump your food in nature.
However, some times in a trip, some thing may go wrong and usually guides (if they are professional) explain and warn it to some visitors GENTLY and by KINDNESS to correct the mistakes, not impolitely and by humiliation! And I believe the guides in this business would do their job more carefully, if visitors were from UK, France or Germany. It seems nationality and the kind of visitors to received in this business play a major role in the kind of behavior reflected by Swedish guides.
The most interesting point in my opinion is the sentence "kick them out of the country"! This sentence usually use by Swedes to humiliate refugees. Actually, a political party got sits in the parliament by focussing on "kicking out the refugees (and probably some immigrants)" in Sweden, which is a reflection of the opinion of a remarkable number of Swedes. The feeling of the "kicking out of the country" is so strong in Sweden that it even include the tourists, who pay for their trip and bring business for the country, simply because they are from a developing country!
No, as in the story Ahoo told of the misdeeds of herself and her friends in the Northland of Sweden. The people did not know they were from Iran all they knew was that they were barking with the dogs acting like "wild things" making every other tourist from every other country uncomfortable.
Strange how 30+ year old University students behave these days.
Now you are making your own story for us?! It was quite and calm dog sledding tour?! In fact most of such tours are a little bit noisy even among Swedes as I have witnessed. You are explaining to me two very similar cases and conclude that one is totally normal the other is wild uncivilized manner. That's why there is suspicious that there is third dimension into your analysis and that is your prejudice of people. Remember how you assumed Iranians started the fight while there were no evidence in the text. Racism is an illness that moves us toward prejudice and racially motivated assumptions.
I agree with @skatty that there should have been a guideline what is allowed and what is not. If there wasn't such a guideline, singing around a fire with a louder voice in the middle of night in nature is a very natural behavior among all cultures and tossing cigarettes in nature is not good but widely seen among many culture and should not raise a racist remark.
As for racism, Yes we do. According to your criteria Nazis were not racists. The most infamous racism in 1950s in Germany was not about color. It was about religion and culture!
@entry
You are right. But like I said before this seems to be a very rare incident and a bad luck. I haven't even heard of similar case for years in Sweden. But the questions is if it was better for all to sweep it under the carpet.
You are right. But like I said before this seems to be a very rare incident and a bad luck. I haven't even heard of similar case for years in Sweden. But the questions is if it was better for all to sweep it under the carpet. "
Iraniboy, this is a very sad situation. We have Ahoo Shokraei who thought that she could be clever and manipulate the public opinion via thelocal.se media into believing that the acts of misbehavior of herself and her friends were instead demonstrations of racism. Obviously, this has not worked out.
This has not worked out for Ahoo Shokraei at all. Instead of accepting that she and her friends were acting like a pack of wild animals, Ahoo Shokraei decided to tell the world that she and her friends acted like a pack of wild animals that felt they could intimidate others with impunity.
I could give a FF that after the fact those that pointed out that the behavior of Ahoo Shokraei and her friends was inexcusable was now being falsely attributed to Iranian stereotypical behavior. This is something that Ahoo Shokraei created and publicized. Iranians following in Ahoo Shokrae's foot steps have her to thank for the crap they have to scrape from their boots in the future.
I do not believe that the bad behavior of Ahoo Shokraei and her friends is a general trait of the Iranian people.
The sadness here is that the actions of Ahoo Shokraei will in the future cause problems for Iranians in the future and with regard to the 30+ year old Ahoo Shokraei who at this age many are building families, business and futures she is in the woods with other "wild things" barking with the dogs.
No good has come from this article outlining the bad behavior of Ahoo Shokraei and her travel companions.
I think Swede after 30 years of getting refugees can distinguish between European and non-European. My point is that the visitors could not be classified as westerns visitors. And by saying that they are from Iran, there has been a suggestion of "kicking out of the country".
The professional guides are able to control their groups easily, by following a schedule and explanations to visitors. If they start too late, it means that the program did not start according to the schedule (what ever schedule, which might be the explanation about the behavior in the nature!). As I have mentioned, the guides can control human behavior by acting politely and correctly, for example explain about the situation of dogs or what ever conditions. After all we are talking about some students and tourist, who wants to enjoy their time in the nature and try to avoid conflicts.
I think to say that the visitors are barking, are on drug and should be kick out of the country is not what can be expected from a schedule trip, which has been started too late!
Some might believe that it is sad that Ahoo Shokraei did not choose to bring her obnoxious friends to a polar bear tour where the outcome would have been much more spectacular and not have left us with this ridiculous story of her and her friends barking at sled dogs and charges of racism because she was advised that her behavior was inappropriate.
Ahoo, good luck on the job search.... I hear there is good work for victims in the UK.
There are three issues here.
1) Nobody considers the behavior of a group of friends late night in the nature as a general trait of a people. If we do so we get extremely bad results for all nations.
2) I personal can't remember last time I was singing load and I personally don't like to see it either but If singing load around a fire and tossing cigrattues is act of a pack of wild animals then all nations including Swedes as I have witnessed are wild animals I'm afraid.
3) A behavior(even if it's bad) doesn't justify a worse response. In case of Nazis for example they also had some arguments for bad behavior of Jews but it doesn't justify their racism.
As for drugs this is a completely different case. If drug was involved then it was the duty of the guides to report to police without hesitation. This was a criminal act. Unfortunately it seems to be a lame accusation now. Nobody pass such an important issue.
I dismiss all thoughts of national origin and race from this story and boil it down to a bunch of 30+ year old immature students that believe they can misbehave with impunity in all settings.
Publicizing their misbehavior after the fact only leads me to the conclusion that they did not learn anything worthwhile with all those years in school which it seems only retarded their crossing over to adulthood and maturity.
Even if you escape all those thoughts. You can't escape the fact that all nations including the Swedes in 30s behave like that despite their rich education and maturity. They do it because they needs a moment in their life to distant themselves from their everyday life. But if you think it is ok for Swedes to behave like this in Alps or Spanish beaches for example but not for Iranians as @Magga thinks then you cannot escape those national origin and racial arguments!
"NO, Ahoo, I do not want fries with that and please do not make this into one of your racist issues"
With their level of unemployment they should be grateful for any opportunity to earn money and behave accordingly. But no, why would they care to care for the customer. The people from Stockholm will give them free money as a regional support anyway!
One thing is for sure, this case is a very bad advertising for Norrland and it's tourism industry.
klubbnika, please promote that topic among the useless 30+ year old "wild thing" students here in Sweden with the special highlight on "obnoxious individuals are not embraced"(use your big crayon).
I am certain that tourists and residents alike would be grateful for your efforts.
@entry
Could you please give us the good news that you might be wrong in what you have written?
@iraniboy You have been too, and I mean too polite with some posters around here. In some instances you have even tried to justify their racism and, Iraniboy, that is not the name of the game and certainly not the comment you wrote about the Nazis. Racism, as I think you wrote someplace along this already boring thread, can be because of the color of your skin, your religion, your etnicity, your nationality, whatever. Racism is racism and what you read in the news printed by TL is plain racism against the Iranians, and what you have read in the majority of the posters here is plain racism, whether they are Swedes, Brits or whatever, it is plain racism. The Nazis in action. No jews around, Iranians in Kiruna are the target.
"Racism in Sweden is reported to appear within Swedish health-care services as well. A nurse at a Stockholm suburb hospital lost his job after complaining on racial attitudes of the hospital staff to patients with immigrant background. Staff was cited saying "go back to Arabia", "the patient is screaming because it's in his culture", "send him to Auschwitz" and more" (Wikipedia) And the posters here wonder if the Iranians in Kiruna were not subject to racists remarks? Some posters here have been jumping into their own conclusions deducting what happend without having been there. The "IFs" have been the bread and butter in this thread. "People, when being in the nature, must bla, bla, bla" And from there on.
The number one racist in this thread has been calling the Iranian women a racist. Another one, with double standards (klubbnika; a third one, not knowing that the language spoken in Iran is Farsi (Persian), and so on.
Someone else (@iraniboy) writing that the Nazis "had some arguments for bad behavior of Jews but it doesn't justify their racism." Good Lord! The comment is really stupid. So the Jews were behaving bad and in retaliation for their bad behavior the Nazis killed some millions of them? I wonder where did iraniboy learn history.
It would be very good if THE LOCAL publishes one of these weeks or perhaps months, how the story ended. Were the Iranians a bunch of wild animals just barking? Or were the Swedes the wild animals just performing their usual racism and discriminatory comments. Who knows. We shall see what we shall see. But honestly, I do not think that we will hear or read how the story ended. The Iranians in Kiruna are not the Swedish journalists jailed in Ethiopia nor the Dawit Isaak in Eritrea.
Hitler decided to kill the Polish intellectuals, enslave Polish masses and ruin their cities and rob their banks, not because of their skin color or race. Poles were white Christians too, but they had a nationality, culture and tradition that Hitler didn't like. Or maybe Hitler's definition of race was different from your interpretation of race and racism.
"Hitler decided to kill the Polish intellectuals, enslave Polish masses and ruin their cities and rob their banks, not because of their skin color or race. Poles were white Christians too, but they had a nationality, culture and tradition that Hitler didn't like. Or maybe Hitler's definition of race was different from your interpretation of race and racism."
The fact that his interpretation was different doesn;t mean it was correct. Obviously, you are welcome to believe in the Aryan nonsense despite lack of any scientific evidence to prove it. You can only call Hitler a racist if you believe in his scientifically unfounded claims that Aryans were a different race, such as Slavs etc. This is not true. There are three races: black, yellow and white. No such things as Aryan race exists.
On the contrary, you will find that in Scandinavia and in the UK Poles and other Eastern Europeans are frequently subjected to discrimination BECAUSE they cannot play the racist card what has been recognised by the courts!
Nativism is the term you are looking for. Two people of the same race cannot be racist towards each other but they can present a nativistic attitude (my country is better than yours).
I have asked about KHAT and I have not had a straight answer. KHAT is a plant that is popular among some Middle-Eastern instead of alcohol. Khat contains the alkaloid called cathinone, an amphetamine-like stimulant, which is said to cause excitement, loss of appetite and euphoria.Khat can induce manic behaviors and hyperactivity similar in effects to those produced by amphetamine.
Khat is legal in the UK and I have seen how people behave after using it. 'Wild' seems to be an accurate term.
I am not impying anything here but I guess it is okay to ask. If the group in question were Swedes, everyone would be asking whether they were drinking. I don't know whether khat is legal in Sweden hence my question.
they say, If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck.
If some people treat others differently, because they are not from Germany, UK, Scandinavia, France and Switzerland, maybe they have more in common with Hitler's grouping of people. They can choose to call it Nativism which does not carry the same negative attributes as the racism and distance themselves from being called racist. But at the end of the day, all we know is that they think and do the same way as Hitler did. He only had encapsulated it in a pseudo-scientific "Aryan Race" theorem. If Hitler was living these days, maybe he would have advertised himself as "Nativist" and thus preventing those "Poles" from playing the "racist card".
I`ve been clubbing in Stockholm and gone dog sledding in the north of Sweden. There is nothing similar between the two cases. The dog sledding tour is a tranquile experience during the night while clubbing in a Stockholm nightclub is a wild ride. I can`t understand how you can call those situations similar.
If you behave like you were in a Stockholm nightclub while dog sledding in the north of Sweden then it`s uncivilized and can be called wild. I`m not saying Swedes can act some way and be called civilized and when Iraniese does the same thay can be called uncivilized. If you have gotten that opinion from me then I must protest. That`s not my opinion. My point was thet depending on what situation you are in, not depending on your nationality, it defines your behaviour.
If Iraniese were in a Stockholm nightclub and acted loud and tossed cigarettes around then it would be considerd normal. If Swedes were in a nightclub in the Alps and being loud and tossing cigarettes around then that would be considerd normal. If Iranies were being loud and tossing cigarettes around while on a dog sledding tour in north of Sweden then that would be considerd wild. If Swedes were being loud and tossing cigarettes around while on a safari in South Africa then that would be considerd wild. The situation defines the behaviour. Get my point?
Regarding my conclusion of who started the scuffle it was not based on prejudice but on how the article was written. The article say that a friend of ahoo79 reacted angry and after that a scuffle ensued. To me that indicates that the angry friend started it, not because he was from Iran but because that`s what the article indicates. But ahoo79 says there was no physical contact so I guess it`s a no issue.
Perhaps there was guidelines and they broke them? We haven`t heard the other side of the story. But being loud and tossing cigarettes around can still be considerd wild when on a dog sledding tour. But the tour guide was very uncivilized and unprofessional when they told the guests off in the way she did. But it was in no sense racist. What was the racist remark? Being called wild when they were acting wild? Whos the racist? The female tour guide or the male owner? Both of them?
Why are you talking about 1950s Germany and the Nazis? We aren`t talking about the defenition about Nazism, we are talking about Racism. I think my definition of racism is correct.
@ IranianAtheist
What you are talking about is more facism then racism. Nazism was and is more then just racism.
I made those examples to show how stupid it is to have such an approach as Migga had. S/he was justifying the racially motivated response of the guiders because according to her standards Iranians misbehaved. I made those examples to say even if they had misbehaved according to Swedish standards it doesn't justify any racially motivated response. Not to mention that Swedish standards in a overseas tour is not higher than this!
Seems to me, you are quick to type but slow to think.
Racism is a term and has it's definition. While you may not like the fact that the definition does not spread beyond 'race', I would suggest you are less hasty with your comments.
You cannot claim you know what other people think and you cannot claim you know they are of the same mindset as Hitler! Remember, when you fight monsters you ougth to be careful so you do not become a monster yourself... .
I have friends in Krakow, Poland that own a catering business. A few years back they were swarmed with nasty, loud and drunk tourists from the UK having stag nights there. They did tell them they should go back to their home ciuntry if they wanted to behave like pigs in the mud. Do you think it was racist? Because I don't think so!
Nice how everyone is conveniently avoiding giving me any info on the use of khat in Sweden... .
Before you go even deeper with your misunderstanding of my opinion I suggest you read my latest post at #112 and get my point.
What you are talking about is more facism then racism. Nazism was and is more then just racism"
It seems that you know more about contemporary Nazism that I do. From what I have read, Nazism was a special form of Fascism:
From Wikipedia:
"It [Nazism] is a unique variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and antisemitism (source: Neocleous, Mark. Fascism. Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA: University of Minnesota Press, 1997 p. 23.)"
Fascism, as judged from what Mussolini said, was quite "racist" or "nativist" as you might call it from these pieces that I just collected from Wikipedia:
In a 1921 speech in Bologna, Mussolini stated that "Fascism was born... out of a profound, perennial need of this our Aryan and Mediterranean race".[277] Mussolini was concerned with the low birth rates of the white race in contrast to the African and Asian races. In 1928 he noted the high birth-rate of blacks in the United States, and that they had surpassed the population of whites in certain areas, such as Harlem in New York City. He described their greater racial consciousness in comparison with American whites as contributing to their growing strength.[279] ...
You are correct about certain of Hitler's theories on racial categorisation being unfounded, but your resultant statement is equally ridiculous:
"There are three races: black, yellow and white."
Race is not a concrete thing, especially with the mixing that can now occurr at unprecedented levels, and there are many other variables. However race is a documented reality we witness every day even if we are not experts in the field. It involves shared history and genetics of a human subgroup originally based on being localised together geographically and sharing identifiably similar charactereristics, not least of which - appearance - and it's not just colour. As such there are a multitude of races that still can be seen to exist on the earth. There are exceptions but take for examples someone with fine blonde hair, pale blue eyes, pointy features, high cheekbones, well over 6 foot tall - these are not the genetic features that could belong to all 'white' groups. Generally this could not be someone of a 'white' southern mediterranean, nor middle-eastern racial group - which are actually more easily confused with one another but are not really 'yellow'. Like someone said - Ashkenazi Jews can be indistinguishable from white Europeans based on colour alone - it was not just slightly darker skin tone but other characteristics such as facial features which the Germans parodied in illustration and tried to degrade as ugly in comparison to their 'Aryan' physical ideals. The point is though that although the generalisations can be distorted and are not absolute, there are identifiable racial characteristics that include not just colour (with a spectrum well beyond simple black, yellow, and white) but a host of other traits of physical appearance - like different African races that have aquiline noses or not, or are very tall or very short, they're not all simply a black race. Just because the Nazis used corrupt science does not mean there do not exist races on the earth - the point is not to judge people by their appearance - whatever race that may or may not signify.
It is not necessarily technically 'racist' to call someone out for being 'Iranian' but one kind of gets the impression that the tour guide didn't think too much of middle eastern visitors in general - hence the inappropriate 'throw you out of the country' stuff. Having said that, the argument that being against Islamic ideology is racist one hears a lot and that is entirely invalid. Although it must be acknowledged a good proportion of people against Islam in Europe are also racist - so there are murky waters, and it can often be seen to be intertwined in a xenophobic package.
@iraniboy
You have fallen into the game of tiny, tiny Migga. Over and over she, as well as @klubbnika, writes and writes and writes mixing apples with pears.
@everybody
I suggest you stop with history and definition lessons and stick to the main point of the story: Who are the guilty ones, Iranians? or Swedes? The ones or the others, that is the question.
I doubt it. While it is impolite, it is not racist.
@strixy
Is "nativism" the new name for nazism? The content is the same.
As soon as someone says something about a foreigners there's always going to be someone "calling for the wolf" (aka calling it racism) aren't we tired of this and isn't it time to stop blaming racism?
I got new for ya'll...We're all the same race hence therefore,
- Can it be any racism? You're a racist towards you own race?
The word it self,
-Should it be stricken from the dictionary, the laws and our court systems due to lack of real meaning?
Take a moment to think before answering, it might be tricky?
To be a racist means that you "discriminate someone from/against another race"...The science community can put us all as being from the same group of people emigrating out of Africa around 60.000 years ago and our entire DNA says there's only one human race on earth, Homo sapiens!
I like people from my own culture/religion etc, it mixes very well with me and I don't care if you're white/black or purple,
-Does that makes me a culturist, or maybe even a religionist???
No, it is not. Simply google the word 'racism' to see the difference.
When I say that all dark skinned people are lazy I am racist. When I say that I consider Irish to be lazier than Brits I am not being racist. I am being xenophobic but not racist.
To be a racist means that you "discriminate someone from/against another race" The science community can put us all as being from the same group...
The problem is that racist people do not respect this scientific finding. Racists do not agree on a common classification. A racist can only be racist against very different skin color like the ones in the US and South Africa or it can be against a region like a European racist who hates non-Europeans who do not look European like most far-right European parties or can have even bigger circle like True Finns in Finland who even hate Swedes and almost anything that is not originally from Finland. So in conclusion it relies on the racist person to decide how big his or her circle of hatred expands.
@Migga
We have already discussed it. You are repeating yourself.
I now see that you asked for nazism specifically.
Nazism, the common short form name of National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus) was the ideology and practice of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (otherwise known as the Nazi Party) and of Nazi Germany. It is a unique variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and antisemitism. Nazism advocated the supremacy of the claimed Aryan master race over all other races. Nazis viewed the progress of humanity as depending on the Aryans and believed that it could maintain its dominance only if it retained its purity and instinct for self-preservation. They claimed that Jews were the greatest threat to the Aryan race.
So nazism is not a version of nativism nor vice versa because it does not focus on nationality but RACE. However, Aryan race as such does not exist so it is a fantasy.
Well you obviously don`t get my point when you tell other poster that my opinion is stupid. I don`t justify any racist remarks. Point out which remarks in the article is racist and then where I justify their use in my comments.
If the group acted wild then the tour guide isn`t a racist for saying how they behaved. If an Egyptian guide would tell a group of Swedes that they were wild, if they behaved wild, during a tour guide to the Pyramids then that guide wouldn`t be racist. Do you understand?
To be racist means to discriminate someone BECAUSE of their race. People get discriminated by people from other races all the time, but that doesn`t mean that the reason behind the discrimination is automaticly racist. There can be an unlimeted amount of reasons behind the discrimination. Race doesn`t have to be the reason just because the people involved have different race.
If two Swedes have a conversation, what language do you think they use? DUH!
Nothing secretive about that!
It seems to me their conversation was between themselves and not meant to be heard by the group, however some members of the group chose to eavesdrop on the conversation.
Weren't they taught that it is not polite/correct to listen in on other's conversations?
That alone leads me to believe that which was said about their behaviour is correct.
It is not racist to call another an animal!
However I feel that comparing some humans to animals makes the animals losers by comparison!
Racism! Hell, no!!!
And the line between xenophobia and ethnic or racial hatred is a blurry one.
And you are right. The Aryan race as such, does not exist, even though the name Iran means the land of the Aryans (nobles). I think. I have not Googled this yet, but I will.
Going back to the story, who is right, Swedes? or Aryans, I mean, Iranians. Will we ever read the end of the story? In my opinion, and solely in my opinion, Swedes in Kiruna were rude against a group of Iranians that were obnoxious (repulsive; disgusting; offensively arrogant; annoying=@entry # 100)not behaving to the high quality of standards Swedes have for proper behaviour, which are: politeness, courtesy, good manners,gentleness, civility, urbanity, elegancy, graciousness and refinement, plus, but of course, arrogancy.
Like in any Colgate radio soap opera: Next week, Migga divorces Ouija because she realizes that she is in love with iraniboy.
klubbnika, you're a victim of the Stockholm press propaganda. And yes it is siding with Stockholm politicians, the right wing in particular.
Norrbotten has among the lowest unemployment rates in the country, and in Malmfälten it hardly exists at all. LKAB, for one, has given the Stockholm politicians several billion kr only last year, so, of course "Norrlänningarna" are thankful for whatever "alms" given back to them!
Sorry for saying 'stupid'. It was not redirected at you. It was meant for anyone who think racism is just the matter of color.
Like I said before there are two things here. Did act wildly by singing load and tossing cigarette in a nightly tour in nature?! I would say no. But let's assume they were wild and they misbehaved. Does any bad behavior should trigger a racial response?! No! any bad behavior has a proper response and nothing deserve a racial slur.
Oh yes calling someone wild maybe is not racist alone but when it comes with 'Aha Iranians' and 'they should be sent to their country' it becomes racist!
@Gamla Hälsingebock
They were extremely impolite. They overheard what those guides were saying! How dare they are! They tossed a cigarette?! How horrible we only have about millions of them back in the streets of downtown! And they also sang load in the middle of nature and bothered the animals sleeping at 11 PM?! Shame on them! How about burning them in gas chambers?!!
It does not appear that the tour operators are the ones making an international incident regarding the obnoxious behavior of Ahoo Shokraei and her accomplices. This rests on Ahoo Shokraei and the idiot here at the local who tried to twist the bad behavior of useless 30+ year old students into a headline implying racism. How low will thelocal go?
A few 30+ year old students went on a trip up North, behaved badly and were upset that their bad behavior was pointed out to them.
In reprisal for their bad behavior being pointed out to them they decided to convince Oliver Gee (news@thelocal.se) that this was not about a bunch of obnoxious 30+ year old students behaving badly but a story that could be twisted to be an exciting one about racism.
Well that has not worked out too well.
Ahoo Shokraei will forever be known as some immature 30+ year old badly behaving student retarded in life's achievements who will cry racism(or perhaps rape when she screws up)when her references are checked by future employers. Oliver Gee (news@thelocal.se) will just remain another mindless tool putting whatever he farts out to produce a catchy headline for thelocal.
It is good that Ahoo Shokraei's friends have not been named so that they do not have to share publicly their collective shame. Perhaps Ahoo and her friends will realize that they are more than thirty years old and that they should start applying themselves towards productive ventures and stop acting like drunken teenagers that make people and work animals uncomfortable to be in close proximity.
@entry
Have you heard the expression "The customer is always right"?
Have you heard the expression "The customer is always right"?"
Yes I have heard that expression. I also know that when one customer waiting online is a particular basket case it effects all other costumers. Just like what was written in this article about the obnoxious behavior of Ahoo Shokraei and her two other poorly behaved thirty something year old "students".
Without regard for anyone else Ahoo Shokraei and her friends made sure that no other costumer or work animal was spared their deplorable behavior.
Ahoo, I still do not want fries with that and please do not make this one of your racial issues....
This principle applies when both customer and the host share the same values with regards to appropriate and polite behaviour. If not, sorry but you will be asked to leave. There are limits to everything.
Did you really read what I wrote?
The customer is ALWAYS right.
No ifs, no buts, no condition.
If you, unlike the rest of the civilized world, think differently in Sweden, put it in Ts&Cs for the services offered. And then let's see how many people will want to used these services.
I know I won't.
No, theya re not. If a customer behaves like an animal in a restaurant/cinema/night clun, they get asked out. There are limits to everything.
Don't believe me? Go out and try for yourself :)
LOL@klubbnika
There hardly needs to be a market study to determine that there are no hoards of useless rude and obnoxious 30+ year old "students" flocking to Northern Sweden to jump on dog sleds.
Ensuring rude & obnoxious 30+ year old "students" are not included on Dog Sledding tours would be seen as a positive by civilized people and sled dogs alike.
@strixy
Seems to me you never lived in a civilized country. Then it is difficult to understand.
#137
@entry
Do you know this people? Have you witnessed the incident?
Then DON'T JUDGE!
And the racism card... Why would a tour guide even care whether a tourist is coming from Iran or the moon? My sister runs a business with a dog sled, among other things. Only in February she/they had guests from France, the Czech Republic, Japan, Singapore and countries I can't recall at the moment.. So what makes Iranians so "special" to even be remembered the next day? Of course I cannot speak for the guides in the article above, but their Iranian guests have definitely made themselves memorable. :P
@entry
Do you know this people? Have you witnessed the incident?
Then DON'T JUDGE! "
The door to the barn was left open and the animals were let loose. I did not write this article at thelocale.se that tried to twist a story about rude & obnoxious 30+ year old "students" who ruined the travel experience of others and perhaps terrorized working sled dogs into a racial incident.
Put the blame on Oliver Gee (news@thelocal.se) who penned this garbage.
Anyone from Sweden with their eyes open when traveling in the middle east or Asia knows that racism exists not just back home but everywhere.
This article is not about the headline professing racism but about rude & obnoxious 30+ year old "students" & Oliver Gee's (news@thelocal.se) desire to have a sexy headline so that more people would be aware of his trash writing.
I have seen this phenomenon in other countries and it is used (and very much abused) by "the other part" in a way that's bordering madness.
Are we white pasty people always racists as soon as we open our mouth and think/feel/believe differently from anyone else? Are we not allowed to have different views? Are we always wrong?
Isn't it time to wake up and stand our ground to the right of our opinions and OUR RIGHTS to our own culture and believes without being called a racist?
"@strixy
Seems to me you never lived in a civilized country. Then it is difficult to understand."
Well, seems to me you didn't either. In a civilised country children learn manners from parents and as adults do not cause havoc when out and about. I understand you are not familiar with this type of upbringing?
Your arguments ad personam only show how little civilised you are yourself. 'The customer is always right' is a privilege arned by well-mannered customers making complaints about the quality of service. It does not stand for protecting nuvorish behaviour and lack of elementary savoir vivre.
I think you are on the right track with your thoughts.
The lead of this story says: "A Swedish dog sledder's perceived racist insults ruined a recent reunion of Iranian graduates in Kiruna and left their Sweden-based host "ashamed" of inviting her friends to the country.
The first paragraph says: "I was the one who invited them and was kind of their host, but I was totally broken," 32-year-old Ahoo Shokraei told The Local."
So, please tell me where did you read the garbage you, and only you wrote?:
"The door to the barn was left open and the animals were let loose. I did not write this article at thelocale.se that tried to twist a story about rude & obnoxious 30+ year old "students" who ruined the travel experience of others and perhaps terrorized working sled dogs into a racial incident."
Then, you blame Oliver Gee from The Local:
"Put the blame on Oliver Gee (news@thelocal.se) who penned this garbage."
And then, you write again: "This article is not about the headline professing racism but about rude & obnoxious 30+ year old "students" & Oliver Gee's (news@thelocal.se) desire to have a sexy headline so that more people would be aware of his trash writing."
Sorry, @ENTRY, but you are the one who has been writing trash in this thread.
So, I am still wondering where in the hell did you read that the Iranians involved in the incident were "rude & obnoxious 30+ year old students"? The only time an age is mentioned is the first paragraph after the lead.
I fully agree (for the first time) with "klubbnika" when she interpellates you by writing: "Do you know this people? Have you witnessed the incident?
Then DON'T JUDGE!"
I have said the same thing in other words. Some "debaters" here have made their own conclusions without having been witness of the incident.
You, entry, have been throwing trash to the Iranians just because I believe you hate Iranians. In fact, I believe you hate humans in general. Your way of analysing, deducting, thinking and writing is typical of someone who hates himself and others so much, than his desire is to pollute with his rubbish the rest of the posters here and in other forums.
@WildRaven # 141
Yes! We all should be entitled to express our opinions, but these should be based on facts and not of invented and/or twisted manipulations of a story in order to suit one's purpose. Don't you agree?
@entry and others, have crucified the Iranians at Kiruna without having been there and only by jumping to their own conclusions, twisting the story and disregarding facts. I really hope that one day, the story will be completed by crucifying the Iranians or the Swedes; the Swedes or the Iranians, it does not matter. What matters is that the truth is exposed and not the twistings of entry and his gang of racists.
If you read my posts on this thread you will notice that I purposely did not include any reference to race or country of origin.
I certainly would not want to use a broad brush and tar the highly respected Persian heritage of my good friends and business associates by mentioning in the same sentence the despicable behavior of Ahoo Shokraei and her 30+ year old useless 'students' while ripping up the country side in Northern Sweden.
We have 30+ year old useless 'students' behaving badly. Race, national origin is not an issue. Bad behavior clear and simple. Like it lump it do with it what you want but I and a lot of other people are just going to continue to view you at the lowly status that you hold.
Your race card has been overcharged and is no longer valid.
You wrote:
"OUIJA I guess you are the new idiot here at thelocal.se and everybody but myself recognizes you as an imbecile. I will not make this mistake in the future"
Well, well. Let me tell you a news that comes from Belarus from TT and AFP in Belarus: "When the President, Alexandr Lukasjenko heard that the ministers for foreign relations from Poland and Germany were calling him a "DICTATOR", specially the one from Germany, Guido Westerwelle, an open homosexual, he said: "They shout om dictatorship. When I heard that I thought: It is better to be a dictator than to be gay (homosexual)"
In your case, little ENTRY, I am completely sure that you are not a dictator.
But since you shout to the 4 winds "that you purposely did not include any reference to race or country of origin.", I will refresh your twisted memory:
In # 57
"The rest of the group most probably did not appreciate "the wild things" barking with teams of sled dogs nearby most likely getting all riled up barking in return."
I guess "the wild things" were Palestinians, Colombians or what.
In # 71, :"ahoo79, I would add that the next time you travel and behave badly,"
Do not tell me that @ahoo79 is a German?
In #77 : "If Swedish tourists were traveling abroad and behaved as obnoxious as ahoo79 et. al. and the local tourist service entities were just as shocked by their behavior as the people in Sweden were shocked by the behavior of ahoo79 et."
Here, clearly you were referring to the Iranians with ahoo79, or not?
In #81: "Iraniboy, how does the obnoxious behavior of ahoo79 et. al. that was outlined here at thelocal.se as ambassadors of Iran play out?"
The last paragraph of # 81 reads: "Will the next 30+ or 40+ year old Iranian students benefit by ahoo79 et. al. cultural displays in rural Sweden?"
In #96:
"The people did not know they were from Iran all they knew was that they were barking with the dogs acting like "wild things" making every other tourist from every other country uncomfortable."
In # 98, :
"Iranians following in Ahoo Shokrae's foot steps have her to thank for the crap they have to scrape from their boots in the future."
In the same # 98, : "I do not believe that the bad behavior of Ahoo Shokraei and her friends is a general trait of the Iranian people."
Then you add: "The sadness here is that the actions of Ahoo Shokraei will in the future cause problems for Iranians in the future and with regard to the 30+ year old Ahoo Shokraei."
Someone wrote that Swedes were the only ones in the world who slept with the Swedish flag on top of his headboard. I believe that along your life you changed it for the Nazi flag.
To wind up, I rather be called "Dictator" than gay.
c.c. All the posters who have been targeted by Pinocchio.
I guess you must work for the German Ministry for Foreign Relations. Lukasjenko was right all the way along. It is better to be called a dictator than an entry. Oops! I did not want to be that mean.
You never learn and you will never learn. You are a disgrace to the human race. I can see again that your rubbish is a product of your mental diarreah and that you will continue opening your mouth quicker than your thoughts. You will never make it, Pinocchio. Never. Your nose keeps on growing and everybody knows that, even my living nurses.
Remember the film "Singing in the Rain" with Gene Kelly? Well, they changed the line that said "Oh what a glorious feeling, I am happy and gay" just because you requested the change. You did not want the world to know how happy you were for being happy and ...
I wonder: When you see yourself in the mirror, are you happy with what you see?
Next time you contribute to any of The Local threads by teaching us the old German Nazi anthem. Just to remind your gang what kind of a leader you have been and your real inner you disguised as one of the puppets of Master Geppetto. Carlo Collodi was inspired by you and your lies.
For someone who has the cheek to accuse others of mental diarhoea, you indeed produce a massive amount of absolutely pungent stench... . Go and get some education because your posts are a huge disgrace to yourself and to the educational system of whatever country you happen to be from.
Anchorage, Alaska (CNN) - Despite near record snowfall, the 40th running of the Iditarod sled dog race kicked off in Anchorage on Saturday. However, only hours after the ceremonial start of the race, Iditarod officials announced the trail's course was being altered due to worsening weather conditions.
Sixty-six mushers entered this year's race, a true test of human and canine endurance. The contest requires each musher and dog sled team to traverse almost 1,000 miles across Alaska's notorious winter terrain - between Anchorage and Nome on the Bering Sea coast.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/04/iditarod-route-altered-due-to-weather-concerns/
I would certainly not go to the country YOU are from. That would be a complete disgrace, not only for me, but for the majority of the posters at The Local. I am too many numbers bigger than you. You do not even know how to write properly. O.K. Threads here are not for discussing grammar, but, anyhow. I can gather also that you are certainly not a dictator.
@ entry
I am waiting for you to continue writing lies. How about more Iranians, Iranians, Iranians. I can see that you have nothing more to say about the subject, right? Your lies were exposed by me and they were fully known by others who did not want to comment on them. You are the one @strixy should talk about, unless @strixy is your mate at the Foreign Relations Ministry of Germany. Then I understand his way of "thinking"?
Well, well. A dictator can have another dictator as a friend. They join forces and we have to dictators´, one of them being a product of Carlo Colliodi.
On the other hand, I like your information about the race in Anchorage, but, what how have you related this news with what happened in Kiruna? Just wondering. Perhaps I did not digg your idea. Oooh! Now I got it. Iranians were involved in the race or participated in it. Thanks. You opened my eyes.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/svenskahjaltar/article14414453.ab
Ahoo: I hope that you can solve the incident but, don't you think that your dignity is above almost all what you have read in this thread? You can lose your beauty, which you really have; but never, never, lose your dignity.
If you are right, fight for your rights. You might lose the fight, but not your dignity.
Forget what the "entries" "strixies" and others as similar as these two have written. Their hatred against foreigners is above their skind. Forget them and move on; but remember: NEVER LOSE YOUR DIGNITY.
12:59 March 6, 2012 by IranianAtheist # 153
Are you sure? Do not be surprised if they start writing that it was a Swede with the name of Meysam Tahmasebi who saved the woman. We shall see what we shall see.
"I would certainly not go to the country YOU are from. That would be a complete disgrace, not only for me, but for the majority of the posters at The Local. I am too many numbers bigger than you. You do not even know how to write properly. O.K. Threads here are not for discussing grammar, but, anyhow. I can gather also that you are certainly not a dictator."
Yes, well, the fact that you consider the pervy Lukashenka to be your role model tells me all I need to know about you. Why not move to Belarus then?
P.S. Iran started using the name in 1935 (what a coincidence...). Beforehand it was known as Persia.
Foreigners do not concern me. Everyone is a foreigner after all. What does concern me is waving the racist card every time a white person tells off a person of another skin colour.
Why don't you stay in Oslo and help your mate Breivik to be released for the horrible crime he committed?
Why don't you learn how to read properly? I don't consider "the pervy" Lukasjenko to be my role model. It might be yours and @entry, but not mine.
Why are you trying to teach me about the name of Iran, before the Shah change it precisely to Iran? I do not need History lessons from such a pedantic like you.
Why do you write that "everybody is a foreigner after all"? I do not think a Swede being a foreigner in Sweden, but according to you, he is. Very clever, strixy, very clever.
Why are you still here? Posters have banned you here and there and you never give up? You are really, either stubborn, or whatever.
Why don't you buy a big, big kite and fly?
Finally, and this is for me:
Why in the hell do I keep on discussing with stupids?
Answer: Because men are the only ones who keep on doing the same mistakes over and over again.
"Why don't you stay in Oslo and help your mate Breivik to be released for the horrible crime he committed?"
I am really tired of this argument. Whenever someone happens to disagree with unfounded allegations of racism, they are told to go and help Breivik. Maybe you go and help the Red Khmers then? They were lefties, after all... . As you can see, this argument is pointless.
Breivik is not my mate. Shame you do not see the fact that his rhetoric is exactly the same as Iranian rhetoric when speaking about Israel and the enemies of Islam (namely, Europe and USA). Do some research, you may be surprised :)
I have read your post where you complain about the fact you could not find a job in Sweden because of 'racism'. If this is the attitude you present I dare to say the reason behind the employers' hesitation may be different... .
Anyway, I am an immigrant myself and I simply detest playing the racist card whenever possible.
An example from last night: Some thugs were behaving loudly and woke up a lot of my neighbours. I was already outside walking my dogs so I approached them and told them that if they wanted to impress each other with their idiotic behaviour they should try it on their own street and get feedback from their own neighbours. They could also apply to the zoo and see if they had any vacancies for ill behaved monkeys.
Now replace 'their own street' with 'their own country'. Would it be racist? I don't think so. While over the top, it would not be racist simpy because the reason behind my comments was not their skin colour but their behaviour.
"Why are you trying to teach me about the name of Iran, before the Shah change it precisely to Iran? I do not need History lessons from such a pedantic like you."
You definitely need history lessons, whether from me or not it does not really matter.
"Why do you write that "everybody is a foreigner after all"? I do not think a Swede being a foreigner in Sweden, but according to you, he is. Very clever, strixy, very clever."
Well, the fact that you cannot comprehend something does not make it stupid. Ever though of this possibility?
"Why are you still here? Posters have banned you here and there and you never give up? You are really, either stubborn, or whatever."
Noone has banned me from anywhere :)
The rest I will not comment on, it is below the level I can degrade myself to.
Have a nice day :D
"I am really tired of this argument. Whenever someone happens to disagree with unfounded allegations of racism, they are told to go and help Breivik. Maybe you go and help the Red Khmers then? They were lefties, after all... . As you can see, this argument is pointless."
It means that I am not the first one telling you to go and help your idol Breivik, huh? Good for the others. As far as your "help the Red Khmers", let me tell you, NINCOMPOOP, that you are talking about something that does not exist anymore, but Breivik, he does exist. HUH? You need to go back to school, you illiterate.
"Breivik is not my mate. Shame you do not see the fact that his rhetoric is exactly the same as Iranian rhetoric when speaking about Israel and the enemies of Islam (namely, Europe and USA). Do some research, you may be surprised :)"
Sorry, but you are the one who needs not only to do some research, but to go to a shrink to fix your schizophrenia, which is a severe psychotic disorder characterized by a loss of contact with reality and disintegration of the personality.
"I have read your post where you complain about the fact you could not find a job in Sweden because of 'racism'. If this is the attitude you present I dare to say the reason behind the employers' hesitation may be different."
You are such a …... that you should learn to read properly. I never, I repeat NEVER, wrote that I did not find a job in Sweden because of "racism". But it is better this than not finding a job because of stupidity, like you.
Anyway, I am an immigrant myself and I simply detest playing the racist card whenever possible.
"An example from last night: "I was already outside walking my dogs, bla, bla bla. I tolde them *they could also apply to the zoo and see if they had any vacancies for ill behaved monkeys.'
I just wonder if you were walking your dogs or the dogs were walking you.
"Now replace 'their own street' with 'their own country'. Would it be racist? I don't think so. While over the top, it would not be racist simpy because the reason behind my comments was not their skin colour but their behaviour."
Nincompoop: By shouting at them that "they could also apply to the zoo and see if they had any vacancies for ill behaved monkeys" you expressed yourself as the true racist you are, because racism is not related to the color of the skin, but, amongst other things as discrimination, to hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. Got it, or shall I write it with a chisel and a hammer in your skull.
The rest of your garbage is as garbage as the above. You are hopeless, you have no hope and if does not matter that you are not a Swede or a Norwegian, you are "stängt i huvudet". The coin does not fall into your brain.
" The rest I will not comment on, it is below the level I can degrade myself"
Comment: that, STRIXY, would be completely impossible. You are degraded already to the limits of degradation.
Yes, you are. Others seem to have retained their common sense.
After Breivik's massacre Norwegian politicians were calling for banning people from expressing their views on handling of multi-cultural tensions by the gov't. This would have pleased people like you who only allow one point of view -their own. This is what I am genuinely tired of.
Breivik was impressed by the dedicaton of Islamic radicals. Read about something before having an opinion about it.It usually helps to do it in such order
"As far as your "help the Red Khmers", let me tell you, NINCOMPOOP, that you are talking about something that does not exist anymore, but Breivik, he does exist. You need to go back to school, you illiterate."
This is such an idiotic argument I really don't know whether to pity you or to laugh at you. Go help North Korean government then.Happy? I am however angry at myself for getting involved in this childlish argument.I do not throw abuse at people or tell them murderers are their 'idols' simply because they disagree with me. You need to work on your ability to tolerate others and different points of view
"...go to a shrink to fix your schizophrenia, which is a severe psychotic disorder characterized by a loss of contact with reality and disintegration of the personality."
Takes one to know one :D
"I just wonder if you were walking your dogs or the dogs were walking you."
Unlike you my dogs are very well behaved.
"By shouting at them that "they could also apply to the zoo and see if they had any vacancies for ill behaved monkeys" you expressed yourself as the true racist you are"
I did not shout at them.
They were making monkey-like noises.
"because racism is not related to the color of the skin"
Here is a dictionary definition for you:
1.the belief that RACES have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by HEREDITARY FACTORS and that this endows some RACES with an intrinsic superiority over others
2.abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another RACE on the basis of such a belief, racist , racialist n & adj
I know some religious fundamentalists sued the police for racism because they'd been banned from inciting hatred towards homosexuals in public. They lost the case and the verdict emphasised that since religion was not race, there could be no such thing as 'religious racism'. Also, Poles tried to prove they'd been subjected to racism when discriminated against by landlords in the UK. The court recognised discrimination based on nationality, it simply could not have been racism because the derogatory attitude towards Poles was not based on their race.
If you think this is all wrong, you better write to the European Union and tell them to sack all their lawyers :)
"Got it, or shall I write it with a chisel and a hammer in your skull"
I suggest an anger management course maybe?
bla-bla-bla
bla-bla-bla
bla-bla-bla
bla-bla-bla
bla-bla-bla
And the line between xenophobia and ethnic or racial hatred is a blurry one. I could add: The line between stupidity and strixy is a blurry one.
YOU ARE PATHETIC!
Where do I send you a pack of toilet paper? Your mental diarrhea has been dirtying almost all this thread, where, someplace along it, you had good comments; but the majority is crap.
I dare to say that the title of the village fool belongs to you :D
You surely need to have anew medical assessment done and pronto!
Strixy: I can see that you are a bigger scum than I thought you were. The BIGGEST of all. One more bark on your account. You are improving.
Is it any surprise, how many cultured Swedes has anyone met. They spit in the street, are rude, have no social etiquette. Just another day in Sweden really ... "
99% of my colleagues are from another country than Sweden. When two or more of them meet, they speak in their own language, no matter who's standing besides them. More than 90% of them spit constantly. It's like they have no swallow reflex at all. Racism? You bet! Doesn't matter where they are from, Swedes are considered to be inferior. Eight years of experiencing this makes me want to leave this country. They can have it! I don't care anymore, I just want out.