Published: 7 Mar 12 12:39 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/39432/20120307/
The strategy of attacks and intimidation employed by critics of Lars Vilks is working, argues controversial Swedish artist, who has seen his lecturing activities dry up over organizers fears of riots and being labelled as "racist".
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
Parents and volunteers have been patrolling the streets of Stockholm's immigrant-heavy suburbs to help quell riots that have raged for almost a week, serving as a successful deterrent to troublemakers and winning praise from police. READ () »
Police are hunting a 40-year-old man after a woman was found dead in a suburb of Stockholm on Saturday. READ () »
Two cars collided on a road between Trollhättan and Vänersborg in western Sweden on Friday afternoon due to an elk having chosen the unusual spot to give birth to a calf. READ () »
Express delivery firm DHL has been criticised for having handed over a load of alcohol ordered from Germany to a 10-year-old boy in southern Sweden who was home alone at the time. READ () »
A sixth straight night of unrest blighted several Stockholm suburbs on Friday night, spreading briefly to the city of Örebro, 160 kilometres to the west. READ () »
With international media swooping on the Stockholm riots from every angle, The Local's Oliver Gee explains why Stockholm is not burning, and how the story has been blown out of proportion. READ () »
After five nights of rioting throughout the outskirts of Stockholm, many in Sweden and elsewhere are trying to make sense of it all. The Local spoke to a mix of commentators and local politicians to get their views. READ () »
As white-collar union Saco slammed Sweden for not helping well-educated foreigners into the labour market, The Local spoke to researcher Josefin Edström about the disconnect between foreign professionals and Swedish employers. READ () »
More news from Germany at thelocal.de
More news from France at thelocal.fr
More news from Norway at thelocal.no
More news from Switzerland at thelocal.ch
Register now for:
> Free use of noticeboard
> Special discounts
> Weekly news roundup
> Unlimited use of discuss
“Örngott”, “luttanpluttan” and “chokladglass” »
"Hej! How is your Swedish coming along? I have received many questions on the Facebook page and in my email lately and it seems like a good idea to post the answers here. Enjoy! Question 1 – “får inte” or “måste inte” Could you please clarify for me which is the most commonly used phrase in Swedish for..." READ »
Your comments about this article:
The comments below have not been moderated in advance and are not produced by The Local unless clearly stated. Readers are responsible for the content of their own comments. Comments that breach our terms and conditions will be removed.
Can Muslim rape? NO, according to Islam, rapist is punished (death or lashes)
Can Muslim kill innocent human being(irrespective of their religoin? Quran(holy book of Muslims) says killing of one innocent human being is killing of whole humanity.
Can muslim disrespect other religion? Quran says dont disrespect other religion...
So if you see any so called muslim doing these things, he is either not muslim or doesn't know islam or using islam for his own reasons..
On subject: we should respect each other, each other's believes. Making cartoon of prophets doesn't benefits anyone? does it? what kind of freedom of speech is it? making a prophet as dog? is it something positive? or this guy has lost his mind?
When you criticize muslimes who advocate murder, when you criticize and demonstrate against muslimes of various fractions destroying each other's mosques, then you might have some credibility with the West. By the way, other than yelling fire in a crowded theatre, restrictions upon speech should be almost nil.
As for your lies about the cornran, hows about these verses (not to mention ) 3:54, allows lying to infidels - taqiyya. Some circumstances compel a muslime to lie 16:106. muslimes should have no friends outside of islame - 3:28. muslimes may evict from their lands infidels - 8:3. Consult further 40:28, 2:225, 66:2, 3:54,, 8:30, 10:2. Shall we also quote similar verses from the hadith?
Or, asee, consider, this:
""About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad's biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers."
Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy"
In other words, asee, cut the phony BS. If you're too uptight and thin-skinned to live in a free society, then take your stone-aged beliefs to some remote cave and stay away from us with your murderous intent that you crouch in some phony religioius dogma.
As a consequence, several dozen people have become of interest to SÄPO and other agencies (not only Swedish agencies), and have identified themselves as a threat to society. They will certainly be carefully monitored for the rest of their lives,they are certainly on no-fly lists, and will find it very difficult to cause harm to innocent people in future.
Carry on lecturing Mr Vilks; the world is a safer place for everyone else because of your silly and offensive cartoons.
Lets just start with bible, is it full of love and peace? every second verse talk about killing and war...
Now you are calling 1.3 billion Muslim(1 in 4 human being ) backward, stupid .. Do you think we are fool we can believe anything which make no sense? Islam allow me to marry non-muslim but ask me, not to make friend? you can use any verse out of context to prove your claim, but only stupid gonna believe you..
Muslim are not allowed to lie except in three cases( in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wifeand the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)
Muslims have contributed in Science and invented alot of thing even computer is based on something that was invented by Muslim.
I give you an assignment, find out world biggest muslim country and find out how they accepted Islam ( who forced them to convert)..
otherwise whats the point of sweden advertising taking refugees because of them being oppressed but wont protect swedish citizens who face the same persecution
I have read Quran many times. Your statements are simply untrue. Muslims can do as their Prophet did and as we all know he was not necessarily a man of impecable manners, to put it mildly.
I can assure you, You know very little or nothing about Muhammad (SAW). let me share some famous non-muslim opinion about Muhammad(SAW)...
The following extract has been taken from the book "The 100 - a Ranking of the Most Influential Person in History" by Michael H. Hart, a Christian American, an astronomer, a mathematician, a chess master, and a scientist. After extensive research, he rated prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as number one and to be considered as the most influential single figure in human history.
"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential person may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels. It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence, which I feel, entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history."
Mahatma Gandhi, speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) says in (Young India):
"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind. I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."
Just one point in respone to all that you've written in sur-reply to me. When anyone criticizes Christianity, the Pope, etc., whether such criticism is in the form of art, music, plays, etc., how many Christians engage in murder as a response to such insults? Asee, the answer is zero. So, 'nuff said.
Just look at today's Wall Street Journal. The Afghan gov't, in negotiations with the talibums, agrees that it will make clear under shitria law for Afghan that "...men are fundamental and women are secondary...". So, stop the phoniness. Tell me how this Afghan concept fits with any type of civilization.
As for your other tired and oft-repeated comments by apologists for murder and mayhem, please, they're lies or, at best, half truths. And as for the Bible, so what? I never wrote that the Bible has superior morals to cornran. But only a fool would prefer life under a ruler that follows the New Testament than under any other type of ruler.
Gee, if islame is so great, where do you live? In iran? In iraq? In saudi arabia? Or do you live in the West? Gosh, asee, since islame is so great, why don't you run to the nearest islamic country to live there?
Ask yourself this, why does a large number of the prostitutes in Asian consist of muslime women from Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, and southern Thailand? Is this the best that islame does for women? Also of note is that many women who 'escape' from islamic countries become secular. Do you suppose that islamists are the catalysts for this? Is this why muslimes kill their female relatives when they don't follow the brutal paternalism of islame?
P.S.: The fastest growing religion in the world is evangelical Christiantiy.
Sheesh, enough with you.
You can find 1 million youtube debating video between Christians/nonmuslims and muslims. During debate what you do? criticize! so criticizing is not the issue! its insult...
I call people who draw cartoons and insult famous personalities to get cheap publicity, insan. They dont deserve any attention of mine.. All they do is create hatred among people. we all should discourage and ignore these people.
Afghanistan is tiny country, their history is full of fighting. Their whole history is full of wars. They are facing foreign invasion from centuries. In past they were heroes for west when they were fighting with soviet and now terrorists when they are fighting with NATO. If NATO wanted to change any thing in afghanistan, they could build hospitals, schools and universities. But no, they supported corrupt government... Only education can bring change in that country..
So now you are blaming Muslim countries to produce prostitutes... wow.. what can I say now...:D this is the worst BS, I have ever read in my whole online life :D
It doesn't matter to me, which religion is fatest growing religion..
Your second paragraph shows that you're a totalitarian with zero allowance or respect for opposing points of view. Again, if you're this thin-skinned, then you don't belong in a free society, because you quite obviously aren't adult enough to handle freedom. So, again, seek refuge in iran, packiestump, or assault arabia, but get the heck out of the West, as you are a threat to the freedom of all others, including your fellow extremists.
If you want to live in the freedom of the West, you best learn what Shakespeare meant by his phrase "...suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune..". It's from Hamlet.
BTW, in my post # 13, in the last sentence of the third paragraph, clearly, the word 'not' should be inserted between the words "would" and "prefer" so that the sentence reads "...would not prefer...".
Cheers, my pedophilliac-worthshipping extremist. Don't forget to recite your mysognist vows tonight.
"Muslims have contributed in Science and invented alot [sic] of thing [sic] even computer is [sic] based on something that was invented by Muslim."
Really, you're taking credit for the modern computer ...? The ancient Greeks invented a simple steam engine, but I don't think it would exactly be cogent to suggest the Greek invented "engines" as we know them today.
Let me ask you this ... if Muslims contribute soooo much to science, medicine, learning, and culture why is it even though they comprise about a quarter of the world's population they account for less than 1% of recipients of recognitions like the Nobel Prize? Islam may have had it's advancements in it's Golden Age, but what has it done in the last 500 years?
Did muslims discover penicillin? Did muslims discover x-rays? Did muslims develop the theory of general relativity? Did muslims perform the first open heart surgery? Etc, etc ... ad nauseum.
I havebeen studying Islam for years so I can assure you that telling me I know very little about it is a huge miss on your side.
Immigration is something common now yet only the Muslim minority seem to have a problem with assimilation in whichever country they choose to live that is not Islamic while the same countries happen to have a successfully assimilated population of immigrants from other parts of the world... .
Do yourself a favour and research 'one Muslim who is telling the truth' on youtube. You'll find imam Anjem Choudary, who at least has the decency to speak the truth. He also points out that while a Muslim may say one hing to an infidel (taqiyya), he will most likely be thinking something else.
Islam is not a 'religion of peace' but a system designed to control and spread through its followers.
You say there is horrific stuff in the Bible. Yes. But Christianity has reformed itself, the Church has accepted human rights and nowadays defends them as coming from God himself. It has been accepted that Bible is NOT to be understood literally. Same foes for Tora. Small extremist groups in Christianity and Judaism are frowned upon, not encouraged. Just to clarify, I do not followany of these religions so I can be objective here.
Islam in 1400 years has not reformed and Quran is to be understood literally including "fight and slay the pagans (or infidels or unbelievers) wherever you find them?" (9:5). You can try and engage in taqiyya but it is pointless as I think I can see past it now.
I know many Muslims that are decent people but it usually requires a 'relaxed' attitude towards Quran. And, forgive me saying so, such attitude does not seem to be common.
What they do tells more than what they say, if you have any experience with communism, you know people flee from communist countries, even though the regimes keep saying they have it all, and there are lots of defenders in the western world, who defend communists but never move to a communist country to experience that paradise themselves.
We know that kind of sick cowards are everywhere, they never die out.
Mr. Vilks is probably a lefty, but he sure has some guts.
Muslim have ruled almost whole world. Muslim ruled India for 1000 years and Spain for 800 years. If Muslim were so barbaric there should be any non- muslim in these countries. But there are almost 1 billion hindus in India and 99% non-muslims in Spain..
Indonesia is biggest muslim country but No Muslim army has ever attack this country. Indonesian converted own their own..
Now do you know where Islam was first originated? Saudi Arabia! Million of Christians, are living in Saudi Arabia without being forced to convert. you can search about it.
When jews were being killed in europe, they found refugee in Muslim countries, you should read about Jews history in Muslim countries..
Muslim contributed in science and there is history written about it. YOu people should read about it. Why today Muslim are not contributing science? There are alot of reason and its a new debate..
I am living in Europe as a law abiding citizen, I pay taxes, and this society is being benefited by my skills. I am living as skilled worker here.. As I have been living here for many years and I can tell you, west is being brainwashed with propaganda, 99% lies about Muslims. World wars were not fought between Muslim countries..
"First Let me prove Islam is tolerant religion."
Islam is the ONLY religion that ecourages expansion through war! Even Old Testament does not encourage Christians to convert 'infidels' by force. 53.213 verses of Quran and Hadith speak about killing infidels. Also, Islam is a system that does not recognise the division between the state and the church.
"Muslim have ruled almost whole world..."
So, what has happened that now they feel the need to threaten opponents with death? Can you explain this phenomenon?
With regards to India, many Indians complain that Muslim immigrants have brutalised their life. Muslim men propose to Indian women and when they refuse they get burnt wth acid. This is a successful way to scare women into accepting marriage proposals. I suggest you research 'terrorism thats personal' and testimonies of Indian citizens.
"Indonesia is biggest muslim country but No Muslim army has ever attack this country. Indonesian converted own their own..."
The royal class converted to Islam and forced it upon the people just as Christianity was forced upon European pagans. Hardly a peaceful process if you ask me.
Maybe you should read about how Muslim radicals in Indonesia have been persecuting Ahmadiyya whome they believe to be heretics?
Many scholars suggest that the reason why Indonesia is not an Islamic state is because of European colonisation and the influence of European culture and values that prevented Indonesians from creating a claustrophobic regime like in other Islamic countries. Not a popular point of view among many but IMO it can be justified.
"When jews were being killed in europe, they found refugee in Muslim countries... "
Not a word about the fact that during the IIWorld War Arabs actively cooperated with both nazi Germany and fascist italy. They requested help with 'resolving the Jewish problem' and Haj Amin al-Husseini himself was recruiting Arabs for Waffen SS.
The main aim of islam is to build an empire. Religion is just a mean of achieving it (therefore I am reluctant to even call islam a religion). So, when Spanish Jews were told that they could either convert to Christianity or leave, they indeed emigrated to the Middle East. After all, Jerusalem was their holy land around 3000 years ago when Arabs were still worshipping animalistic gods. The cohabitaton did not prove to be so amicable though as we can see from events that followed.
"I am living in Europe as a law abiding citizen, I pay taxes, ...."
Good for you and you are welcome to do so if you can refrain from imposing religious laws on others. Sadly, many Muslims cannot stop themselves from doing so.
"Why today Muslim are not contributing science? There are alot of reason and its a new debate.."
Maybe because Islam has not reformed itself and therefore the verse 'Do not ask questions, it is bad for you' is still valid in its literal meaning to many?
Have a good day.
Islam, Christianity and all the others have each produced stunning acts of generosity and wisdom, and equally stunning acts of perverted evil. Not one of them has a clean record when it comes to genocide, and until armageddon, or whatever, none of you will ever know which one is the One True Religion worshipping the One True God. If you guys above are wrong about both Islam and Christainity, I will laugh myself silly while the four horsemen, or whatever, go galloping by.
Stop wasting each other's time and energy, and more importantly, stop wasting my time. Go do something charitible to benefit your own religion, instead of knocking the other.
Reading your lies and gibberish is like reading the talking points straight from the Saudi/Muslim Brotherhood funded PR firms used to propagandize us in the West.
For those of us who have read the koran and hadith and know you are lying about the mass murdering life of Muhammed, who see the horrors that happen when Islamic based govts are in power, who have read the opinions in the Muslim world where people agree with death for apostasy, have astonishing levels of anti-Semitism and assorted other evils and who attack OUR freedom of speech in our own lands, you STILL want to lie to us?
Go ahead, but be prepared to lose. People are waking up and this line of BS isn't going to be effective for long.
You know what? Vilks, in my opinion, has lost his art character. Why? Because he continues to publish the same things that he knows very well would incite "attention" in its many forms (e.g., news reports, violence, attacks". Lets take this scenario: I am unknown in this world. Noone knows me except my family and friends. But imagine if, for instance, I wear just like Bin Laden and walk in drottninggatan? Would you bet the the local wouldn't report about me? Or if I wear like Hitler and stand in front of the royal palace in Stockholm! The Israeli news would in a moment report about me. Its true. Vilkas is doing the exact same thing. He is not an artist or anything for me. He is just a foolish person who has internal problems with his fuzzy ideologies of freedom and expression. He better stop and get a life instead.
For all the islam defenders, please address the reality. Why do so many muslims move to western countries but you don't see the other way around?
For all the people who think Vilks' products are offensive therefore he deserves to be assaulted, his house deserves to be burnt down, his life deserves to be terminated, tell me why that proves tolerance?
Where you find islam you find intolerance, persecution, pedophiles, garbage thrown everywhere, forests destroyed, wildlife exterminated and just utter destruction and misery.
First of all, I'm not a defender of Islam, but I do see some points that I'd like to address.
"For all the islam defenders, please address the reality. Why do so many muslims move to western countries but you don't see the other way around?"
A few hundred years ago, this question of yours should be asked the other way around. Why would so many Christian Europeans travel to the Holy Land and not many Muslims didn't do the other way around? Perhaps because Christian people back then would kill them? Why would Jews move to Spain, at that time controlled by the moors (muslims)? Maybe because the muslims back then took care of the Jews while Christian Europeans persecuted them?
The face of the supposed "civilized" bunch varies from continent and time to time and every major religion has some blood debt, which is exactly RobinHood's point. Just because Christianity doesn't breed many extremist fanatics now doesn't mean Christianity had always been like this. For the same reason, Islam hasn't always been the way it's being seen today and most likely it wont remain this way forever.
Lars Vilks doesn't deserve to be killed or assaulted, because being idiot is not a punishable crime. What else he doesn't deserve is the media's attention.
The crux of your entire post is "A few hundred years ago"...
Yes, the entire world was barbaric a thousand years ago. But today, the Muslim world is still very much the same. Violence against apostates, suppression of freedom of expression, women treated as cattle, etc.
Maybe in a few centuries that will change but people worried about the welfare of their countries and their children TODAY are perfectly right to oppose this evil in it's current form. Life a few centuries from now doesn't protect us today.
And the FACT is things changed in Europe from barbarity towards civilization because people had the cujones to stand up and oppose these same sorts of people here. Today anyone who stands against the even more oppressive and scripturally violent ideology of Islam is a) killed/jailed in Muslim countries or b) branded a "racist" in our own countries.
Hopefully someone will read about in a history book and shake their head, but today those of us who value our way of life will oppose it.
I'm not going to get into the whole human history for that discussion about religions, because I don't think that will lead anywhere. People have different ways measuring history, I don't see how it can be settled under a web news item. Just take the number of people being killed in the name of a religion, how do you count if it's a war between two religious groups? I do believe christianity is way better than islam from a historical perspective. nobody is perfect, that doesn't mean people are equally sinful. some people are worse than their imperfect peers. Again I said "I believe", because I don't know there are universally accepted scientific ways to prove that. But there is common sense.
I read the first sentence of your post at #28, but got no further. Please would you write it again.
@Everyone else
This guy is as dumb as a post and might actually do it. Watch this space.
Frankly, convincing me to believing islam was beautiful 500 year ago doesn't change a thing, My opinion about the news about Vilks has nothing to do with islam history. And technically, my great grandfather was a hero doesn't save me one bit if I rob you, and you don't really want to see it become a factor in the court if you are the victim.
I just don't get it why we have to have a history lecture in order to set this thing straight.
And what's wrong with acknowledging islam today is not tolerant if you believe it's no better than intolerant christianity 500 years ago? If you call 500 years ago christianity intolerant, why calling today's islam intolerant is wrong?
Note that I don't necessarily buy into your viewpoints, I'm just using your argument to demonstrate your flaws.
if you don't want media attention to Vilks, you should really tell those tolerant muslims not to burn his house, assault him, threaten him, attemp to harm his life in any way, cuz those things will keep him on the media coverage for sure.
1.- Jesus as a paedophile
2.- Buddha as as a pig
3.- Krishna as a whore
4.- Abraham as a rapist
and so on. So what, as long as he keeps on promoting racism in the name of freedom os speech, so what.
So, Lars: keep on doing a perfect job, a real perfect job in showing what the true freedom of speech should mean.
@ Lars Viks
Please continue your lectures. You are doing a great thing. The muhammed cartoon fiasco is a textbook case of why we need to defend Europe from the rise of islam.
The biggest racists are those who believe they themselves are the victims of racism. Like those muslims who immigrate to developed countries and change the rules to suit them claiming "poor us, we aren't allowed to go to the top of our rockets to call to prayer, we don't have our own swimming pool for our women, schools don't serve halal food only, we can't let our daughter date a Swede, our enclaves should not have any Christmas decorations and our children shouldn't do any Christmas/Easter crafts at school even though it's a multicultural country". Amazing, isn't it?
The reason behind picture is prophet stopped his followers to not call him a master, he always mentioned to them I am a human and I die. Also the reason behind pictures were at the time of Idol worshipers were making Idols and then calling them God and worshiping then.
this was one of the reason Prophet did not want this happen to us.
The focus of prophet was to tell us not to later worship him or later call him god, as you can find now in many religions people make idols or pictures and their churches or worship places are full of idols and pictures, for example: Black Christian would draw a black Jesus pictures and white would draw a blonde white man pictures?
So the Prophet massage was very simple that God has no image/no picture. it is mentioned in Bible as well but yet churches are full of pictures.
So this is the picture story, so Lars vilks as non-muslim has right to express but he has no right to insult the Muslims. by the way nobody archived any goal with insulting others, instead problem got worst than getting better.
Just admit you have been scammed and we can move on ...
All power to Lars and anybody else who has the guts to stand up and say any kind of religion is a big steaming pile of rotten shiite.. here is an insult for ya spawn of adam - if you "believe" in any religion you are obvioulsly either stone crazy or dumb as..
There is nothing in the Bible or any other holy book of any religion you have mentioned to support the comparisments you have made. However, plenty of caricatures exist including drawings where Christian God is shot dead by Nietzsche etc. And guess what? NOONE gets eggs thrown at them for it.
. If you are too thin skinned and immature to accept the fact that freedom of speech is UNIVERSAL, then go live somewhere else.
There is a huge movement of Islamic scholars who now argue that 'the freedom of expression' is in fact 'the freedom of religion from criticism'. This also is founded by Quran that states that criticism of Muhammed and Islam is punishable by death. Luckily, it seems like people are not keen on being pushed back into medieval theocracy.
I suggest you familiarise yourselves with apostatesofislam.com.
Here is a piece on how tolerant the Islamic empire was:
Al-Marrakushi, a Muslim historian of the Almohad reign in North Africa:
"Toward the end of his reign, Abu Yusuf ordered the Jewish inhabitants of the Maghreb to make themselves conspicuous among the rest of the population by assuming a special attire consisting of dark blue garments, the sleeves of which were so wide as to reach to their feet and - instead of a turban - to hang over the ears a cap whose form was so ill-conceived as to be easily mistaken for a pack-saddle. [...] 'If I were sure,' said he, 'that they had really become Muslims, I would let them assimilate through marriage and other means; on the other hand, had I evidence that they had remained infidels I would have them massacred, reduce their children to slavery and confiscate their belongings for the benefit of the believers.'"
A particularly sad example of the treatment of the Jews in Morocco during the 19th century is found in Halevy's archives, detailing in particular the Muslim contempt for Jewish womanhood:
"While roaming through the bazaar in the Arab quarter, I saw long lines of young Jewish girls, bareheaded and barefooted, working in the manufacture of military uniforms, earning but 10 or 15 centimes per day. But the bodily sufferings are nothing compared to the moral vexations to which these sensitive and modest creatures are constantly exposed. In a country where no decent woman should be seen in the street without a veil, these Jewish women and girls are obliged to work unveiled in the middle of the bazaar and thereby exhibit themselves to the impudent stares of the Arab crowds.
"A Muslim himself admitted to me that this humiliating exposure has no other purpose than to force these Jewish women to convert as the only means of escaping from such intolerable treatment. Indeed, must not their spirit be exceptionally noble in order to withstand such a life of misery and untold suffering, when conversion can offer them the most precious advantages, freedom, wealth, and honors?" studytoanswer.net
Political Correctness and Multiculturalism has proven to be the most powerful weapon for the advancement of Dar al-Islam since 1945.
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Qur'an should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth" --Omar Ahmed, Chairman of the Board of CAIR (Council of American Islamic Relations), San Ramon Valley Herald, July 1998
Don't believe for a second that ALL countries are not viewed with the same agenda.
From Islamic Law:
Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...
Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."
Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.
Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.
Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.
Muhammad,
"war is deceit"
Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."
I do not know anymore if to laugh about you or to keep on proving everybody that you are the biggest NINCOMPOOP, WANNABEE MANIPULATOR AND OBNOXIOUS LIAR in all the threads you participate. Do not cry. You started, as usual with your insults in the absence of good arguments.
You wrote that " If you are too thin skinned and immature to accept the fact that freedom of speech is UNIVERSAL, then go live somewhere else."
In principle, I agree with you.
"The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted in 1948, provides, in Article 19, that:
"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers-"
But, Lillyputin, besides being a small, very small debater, you do not understand the in spite of the fact that freedom of speech should be UNIVERSAL, that is only technically speaking, because in the reality, there is no freedom of speech, neither in Cuba, nor in North Korea, Belarus, Eritrea and others. Even in Australia, the question of freedom of speech is a wishy washy wish.
The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) studied media freedom in dozens of countries to determine the level of access people have to information.
They came out with the following countries: North Korea, Myanmar, (Burma), Turkmenistán, Equatorial Guinea, Libya (before and after Gaddafi), Eritrea, Cuba, Uzbekistán, Syria and Belarus.
The CPJ used the following criteria to develop its list of the world's most censored countries: state control of the media, formal censorship rules, violence against and imprisonment of journalists, and restricted access to foreign news and the Internet.
While freedom of the press is standard practice in the United States, most countries in the world don't get such a luxury.
According to the Freedom House, via Newsmuseum, across the world, most people live in countries considered to be only "partly free," or "not free."
According to its list, here I go:
North Korea: Censorship score: 99 out of 100
Iran: Censorship score: 89 out of 100
Equatorial Guinea. Censorship score: 90 out of 100
Uzbekistan: Censorship score: 92 out of 100
Belarus: Censorship score: 92 out of 100
Cuba: Cersorship score: 93 out of 100
Lybia: Censorship score: 94 out of 100
Eritrea: Censorship score: 93 out of 100
Turkmenistan: Cersorship score: 95 out of 100
Burma: Censorship score: 96 out of 100
The rest of what you wrote, excuse me Strixy the happy and ... poster, it is as usual bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla. Ergo: your continuous mental diarrea is more sickening now.
Why don't you throw the towel and stop 1,-pretending that you are intelligent and 2.-stop making a fool of yourself?
Either you are a masochist, a dictator or a plain stupid spoiled you know what; but I am sure that you are the latter.
Since 7 years Im travelin' a lot in Asia and belive me... it's absolutely impossible to bring muslims to normal life and live side by side with them.
The main problem with them is they always lie.
And they have absolutely different point of view -- they use your tolerance to be dominant community. In this case it's "one side" tolerance! They like only the tolerance to themselves, but they do not know what is tolerance towards others.
Untill you don't understand it -- you will become more and more muslim country.
I really caught your attention didn't I? I consider myself as something closest to an agnostic. I do believe there's something, some higher power beyond us, but I don't go to anybody's church or mosque or synagogue to praise someone else's "god", my "higher power" is my own spirituality, nobody else's business. That's why, to me all the major religions are the same, they all have their periods of relative tolerance and intolerance, THAT is my point, and also RobinHood's point in his original post. No more, no less. I didn't start writing to talk about today's situation.
Also, I have never said that calling today's islam intolerant is wrong, you must have assumed it.
Furthermore, as with Lars Vilks' caricature, it all started with his drawing of Mohammed as a roundabout dog. The question is, among the hundred of thousands of artists in this country and tens of thousand of their work published at that time, why did Vilks' picture make it to the news and not any other of the ten thousands? The way I see it, there should've been some kind of positive selection towards his work. That's my guess, I don't claim it as fact because I'm just as careful as you are when it comes to drawing conclusions based on conventional wisdom without factual evidence or scientific data.
Simply put, Lars Vilks wasn't known for getting assaulted in the beginning, he was known for his provocation through the media and he succeeded. Then came all the burning and other threats. The guy only wants publicity, same thing with the news above. Now that things have died down a bit, once again he jumps out to remind people of his existence. I shouldn't have called him an idiot, he's definitely not dumb, but more like an attention whore.
"Muslims have contributed in Science and invented alot of thing even computer is based on something that was invented by Muslim. "
Why so many lies, Asee? When did Muslims develop something?
You're lying in the hope that people do not know the story? Now imagine that I know it.
In the entire history, Muslims did not invent almost anything themselves! The only thing they did well is medicine, but even here the main basis was taken from the others. Most of the "Islamic" inventions were made ​​in China, Babylon, India, the pre-Islamic Persia and so on.
Even Algebra! Muslims took it from Indians and gave it the name Algebra, which was later borrowed by Europe! Just the name!
They say that, allegedly, Islam gave Western civilization the works of ancient authors. However, it appears that the works of foreign scientists have been translated into Arabic by Assyrian and syrians-christians who have had a powerful school of translators back into the 4th (!) Century. These translations then came to Europe.
Many scientists and writers of the Islamic world, not only belonged to the conquered and forcibly converted to Islam nations, but also severely persecuted all his life by the authorities and "true believers"
Many of them remained alive not "because of" islam but IN SPITE OF the Islamic regime, which they spread rot, hunted and tortured.
Omar Khayyam - a brilliant mathematician and a poet! Muslims tortured him all his life. In front of his eyes fanatics tore apart his teachers-intellectuals, destroyed his school, then forced him to do Hajj, and he died in poverty and depression, hounded by religion of peace and goodness. They burned all his writings on mathematics and now we know him only as a poet.
Muslim architecture is borrowed from the Assyrians, and it flourished as long as the Assyrians maintained their identity. But as soon as Muslims assimilate and fully converted them to Islam - a century of architecture is over.
The "Great Muslim" world for the 1500 yers of its existence, gave the world a smaller discoveries and works of art, than a small Christian Poland.
Do you want me to tell the story of Ibn-Singh? And why he took the name of Avicenna?
Believe me, I can tell a lot of real stories about musim scientists. All of them made ​​their development is not because of , but in spite of Islam!
This doctrine has never led to progress, only to regress.
Steal the show it as your own - that's the basic principle! And if somebody don't agree -- kill them.
"You started, as usual with your insults in the absence of good arguments."
Yes, of course. Whichever argument does not happen to prove your point of view must be an insult. Certain groups of people like to shout insult whenever they are proven to be wrong... . Typical and sickening.
The stuff you have posted about freedom of speech in countries such as Cuba or Belarus is totally irrelevant, therefore not worth mentioning. We do not live in Iran. But undoubtedly we will if we do not put a stop to Islamic fundamentalism soon.
It is not people from Cuba however that come to Europe in great numbers and try to impose theocracy on us all.
The usual abuse from you is a clear sign you have run out of arguments a long time ago :) Your insults and rage are the best proof I am right.
Here is what one of former Quran scholars, currently a Christian convert Magdi Allam has to say about Quran. No doubts he knows it very well since before the conversion he happened to be the spokesperson for the moderate Muslim movement in Italy and had been studying Quran for about 25 years.
"The very acts of Mohammed, documented by history, and which the Muslim faithful themselves do not deny, testify to massacres and exterminations perpetrated by the prophet. Therefore, the Quran is incompatible with fundamental human rights and non-negotiable values. In the past, I tried to make myself the spokesman of an Islam moderate in itself only to discover his efforts doomed to failure."
And for dessert:
Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do." Translation from the Noble Quran
If 1.6 billion people follow a religion and you people blame whole muslim world based on acts of few, you are just stupid. In US in ever 2nd minut 1 rape case is registered and according to latest report (CNN, Reuters) 1 in 4 women in US is reportedly raped).. Now we dont see such news in world media, all we see is a Muslim has thrown acid on women new for months... I dont defend such act, but good and bad poeple are everywhere.. we shouldn't blame the whole community.
If Islam was such a bad religoin, you wouldn't find billion of follwers and this world would turn into hell.
As a Muslim, I should behave very well with people, even Prophet Muhammad(SAW) said, I am sent to teach you how to behave best with the people. Breaking heart is greatest sin than destroying Mosque in Islam. (this is what I learn from Islam)
Now there are several things being used today invented by Muslims.
Let me share 1001 muslim invention youtube video(not lies)
hyoutube.com/watch?v=JZDe9DCx7Wk&feature=related
Sincerely,
Asee
Do not play the stupid. You wrote "Freedom of speech is UNIVERSAL" and from that I proved you that it is not universal. What I wrote are facts, not opinions. Just facts that prove that freedom of speech does not exist in many countries. And now you come with the stupidity of " Yes, of course. Whichever argument does not happen to prove your point of view must be an insult. Certain groups of people like to shout insult whenever they are proven to be wrong... . Typical and sickening."
As I wrote, you STARTED THE INSULTS and it was not my point of view, but facts taken out from the CPJ and the Freedom House, via Newsmuseum, and from other sources. As usual, you TWIST things to suit your stupidities. I am not interested in your crap about Islam, I don't give a hood about Islam. If it is incompatible with fundamental human rights or not, is not my business.
What we are discussing in this thread is that Vilks is as nincompoop as you (Good Lord. That idiot?) and that he is using the media, authorities and whatever he can use, to keep on with his insults to a religion. Someplace, along this thread, you claim to have read the Quran (sacred book of the Muslims which serves as the foundation for the ISLAMIC RELIGION, Islamic sacred writings revealed by God to the prophet Muhammad).This means that you have read many times more or less 600 pages which contain 6,236 Verses, or 114 Chapters, divided in 30 Books? REALLY?
I should not care anymore about your stupidities and your mental farts. I am truly sick that you are in a thread contaminating everything that is possible to be contaminated. Stay in Oslo, where they gave you asylum, or where you were put in a hospital for the mentally ill and just go away.
No one cares, at least not me, about your "lessons" of anything. You should do some homework like I do, like Max Tron does and like many others do. You should have some brains instead of a toilet full of excrement as a head.
Please do yourself a favor and drop you know what. And please, congratulate your dogs in my name, because they do not only walk you, but they taught you how to bark, on and on. You are the never ending story. With debaters like you, THE LOCAL does not need enemies.
Yes, Vilks is a clown. He has the right to be one and the rest of us should be ready to fight to the death to defend that right or we've lost everything.
If you agree with this, then Islam is most certainly your business, like it or not, as this unfortunately is where the assault on these rights is coming from today.
"As a Muslim, I should behave very well with people, even Prophet Muhammad(SAW) said, I am sent to teach you how to behave best with the people. Breaking heart is greatest sin than destroying Mosque in Islam. (this is what I learn from Islam)
He also said,
Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."
Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."
***Bukhari Volume 3, Book 38, Number 508: Narrated Zaid bin Khalid and Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "O Unais! Go to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses (that she has committed illegal sexual intercourse), then stone her to death."
***Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 808: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The boy is for (the owner of) the bed and the stone is for the person who commits illegal sexual intercourse.'
Repeated in *Bukhari vol 8 book 82 No. 807.
***Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4429: Narrated Abu Bakrah:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) had a woman stoned and a pit was dug up to her breasts.
So asee, i have 2 very simple direct questions for you,
Do you believe in stoning for illegal sexual intercourse?
Do you believe in death to apostates?
A question is not an answer.
I'll be very happy to give you an answer to your questions, once you answer those that i asked you first.
That's how a fair exchange works.
Once again, 2 very simple questions,
Do you believe in stoning for illegal sexual intercourse?
Do you believe in death to apostates?
I see you do really belive what thay say you, but you know -- real facts are terrible thing!
There are a lot of people in government want to show the tolerance to muslims. For this they can even adjust the story (such as with Second World War: in America people are still taught that it is the Americans won WWII, but not the Soviet Union -- this is a good example of fake history).
So, about the movie you gave me a link... This is the usual propaganda and I see the authors trying to show loyalty. But the facts in the movie are fake (a bit).
I just want to give you a couple of hints from the movie:
Surgery issue = fake!
The father of surgery is actually an Indian Maharshi Sushruta. 2600 years ago in India, he and the doctors of his time did cesarean section, cataract, fractures and urinary stones. Anesthesia was known in ancient India. Sushruta was the first man who performed plastic surgery.
Optic = True! (almost)
Ibn al-Haytham - yes, I agree. He was an outstanding scientist (we will not even remember how he argued with the orthodox Muslim people about the celestial sphere of divine beings, and how he pretended to be mad for eight years to survive and how he used this fake illness to write several books. And how then his books were burned by muslims because his scientific work was in conflict with the Muslim outlook).
Yes he is great, but... Not because of islam, but in spite of it!
About aviation and aircrafts = not true.
Again, the Indian Maharshi Bharadwaja was the first person who gave the basics of aircraft. He explained the different types of aircraft in the Wiman-book Tantra (Vimana Thantra) approximately 2,000 years before the Wright Brothers.
All math and algebra Muslims borrowed from the Indians, who have developed all of its bases for several hundred years before the Muslim conquest of northern India. By the way - those 500 years, until the progressive part of India was under Muslim yoke - scientists discovered almost nothing! But as soon as the Muslims was kicked out - the science began to rise again.
Facts - a terrible thing! Should I continue?
"I dont wana spam this page verses from bible to prove christianity is a violent religion."
Yes, Christianity was a violent religion at the time of the crusades and it is a shame that now Muslims want to follow this example.
Unlike jihad though, crusades were targeted at getting the Holy Land out of Muslims' hands not at spreading religion everywhere possible.
I urge you to check the meaning of the word REFORMATION. Christianity has reformed itself, the Church has accepted human rights and defends them.
REFORMATION was when Christians realised that there was little good coming from reading the Bible literally. It has been established that the Bible is NOT to be understood literally.
Islam, on the contrary, has never reformed itself. For 1400 years now it has been compulsory for Muslims to understand everything in Quran literally and not question it ('Do not ask questions, it is bad for you').
Okay, another difference: To my knowledge, there is not a single verse in the Bible or Tora encouraging actively spreading religion through war. There is not a single verse encouraging lying to others and deceiving them.
Sharia is old Jewish law that Jews have abandoned as outdated. Read Exodus and Deuteronomy. What Christianity and Judaism have abandoned, Islam has picked up and spread.
There are over 53000 verses in Quran encouraging killing.
Furthermore, New Testament has established separation of the Church from the state. Something that again, is not known in Islam.
To be clear, I am not a huge fan of any Abrahamic religion. I however perceive Islam, not Christianity or Judaism to be a threat to the freedom of speech and to the human rights.
It took Europe too much time to develop the principle of human rights to have it now thrown away because some unreformed theocrats would like to have it all their way,
"If Islam was such a bad religoin, you wouldn't find billion of follwers and this world would turn into hell."
Well, according to your reasoning, alcohol, smoking and drugs also cannot be bad for you because even more people do one or all of those things!
Do not get me wrong, I am not targeting you personally, Asee. But the problem with Islam is that radical Muslims seem to be the vast majority and they are not in any waymoderated by their brothers and sisters in faith. If you want to be accepted, you guys have to sort out this problem first.
@OUIJA
I am sincerely tired now with your repettive insults.
I did not know you were familiar only with the most literal meaning of 'universal'. What I meant was 'universal for everyone within the same culture/community/discourse.'
"2. Including, relating to, or affecting all members of the class or group under consideration.
3. Applicable or common to all purposes, conditions, or situations:"
Regarding how Mr. Vilks becomes famous, I happen to see an interview in which he explains the details. Actually I've seen a few interviews with him. It all starts when his drawing is removed from a small exhibition somewhere in europe because of fear of violent reactions. That's not the first time he draws offensive things about islam though.
You can check out the Wikipedia version of the story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Vilks_Muhammad_drawings_controversy
I don't have inside knowledge about his purpose other than what he claims. He is not my role model, I'm the opposite of atheists. But assaulting him or attempting to kill him is just wrong. I still believe he has some guts, and I think the media and the "intellectuals" are disgusting when they avoid him out of fear of retaliation by thugs or out of being labelled as racists by their politically correct peers. Believers of islam come from all backgrounds, it's absurd to use racist label. But anyway, they're supposed to be the intelligent ones.
Have a good weekend, sir.
"Can muslim disrespect other religion? Quran says dont disrespect other religion... "
Of course it does,
Unbelievers are described by Muhammad (in the Qur'an) as "the vilest of animals" and "losers." Christians and Jews are hated by Allah to the extent that they are destined for eternal doom as a result of their beliefs. It would make no sense for Muhammad to then recommend them to be taken in as friends by Muslims. In fact, the Qur'an plainly commands believers not to take unbelievers as friends.
Qur'an (3:85) - "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."
Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
"On subject: we should respect each other, each other's believes."
You believe in stoning of adulterers, murdering apostates, and you have the audacity to ask respect?
23:07 March 9, 2012 by strixy
"did not know you were familiar only with the most literal meaning of 'universal'. What I meant was 'universal for everyone within the same culture/community/discourse.'
The above is only more md from you. In any, and I mean, in any thread, posters are not obliged to read anybody's mind to decipher what they meant.
But now, that you address to me once more, let me undress you, once more, in front of all the debaters here, so they finally dig the kind of a LIAR you are and how you manipulate and twist information so that it suits your schizophrenic-paranoic purposes.
You write "There are over 53000 verses in Quran encouraging killing."
ALL of them encouraging killing? If this is not a flagrant lie, I certainly do not know what it is. But, for your education the Quran has only 6,236 verses. YES, PINOCCHIO: 6,236 verses. So, when DID YOU write the other 46,764? You keep on putting dirt over the Quran by making intentionally untruthful statements.
I have not analysed the rest of your "comments", but if they are like the 53,000 verses, I only guess the row of lies you have written. But I repeat, I have not analized them and I do not have the intention of doing it. I am fed with your devious and crooked purposes in this and in other threads.
Are you happy with yourself? You, allow me to say, are nothing than a big rubbish. Bye, bye, Hope you sleep well. Just do not bark while sleeping. You might wake up your neighbors at the boarding kennel.
@ Max Tron # 55
Mate: @asee is not the only one who truly believes what he says. Just read @strixy and you will open more eyes. It takes two of a kind. And I thought that Carlo Collodi had invented just one Pinocchio.
@godnat # 51
"Yes, Vilks is a clown. He has the right to be one and the rest of us should be ready to fight to the death to defend that right or we've lost everything.
"If you agree with this, then Islam is most certainly your business, like it or not, as this unfortunately is where the assault on these rights is coming from today."
Yes, Vilks is a clown! And he has the right to be what he has always been all of his life. But being a clown, DOES NOT give him the right to promote his really bad paintings by insulting a religion through prophet Mohammed. Or, has he that right?
And I will repeat: Islam is non of my business, but freedom of speech is. And in the name of freedom of speech, we should not allow clowns like Wilks, to utilize this for commercial purposes, disguising this with his "freedom of speech" cover.
The cartoons in the Danish papers also insulted Muhammed, but their creators are not giving speeches here and there in the name of freedom of speech, just to sell more cartoons to the Danish papers, or are they?
"It isn't Islamophobia when they really ARE trying to kill you."
http://barenakedislam.com/2012/03/09/uk-dhimmi-judge-jails-a-man-for-one-year-for-putting-anti-islam-images-in-his-window/
http://barenakedislam.com/2011/05/09/thailand-muslims-behead-a-9-year-old-boy-warning-graphic-images/
Your inside information is most helpful. I didn't know about the details before. To me the first time I heard his name was when the roundabout dog got published by some newspaper. Which I believe is the also when most others like me got word of this drawings. It's true as you said, maybe the exhibitions should've just just let him post the picture and not make a bigger thing out of it. Fear of retaliation worsened it somewhat. I didn't mean to offend you either, but internet debates often get out of hand like this, nothing personal. Have a good weekend you too, sir!
Remember Pearl Harbor. Remember the Holocaust and remember the genocides in
1. Congo
2. Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (1939-1945)
3. The Nazi Holocaust (1932-33)
4. Ukrainian Famine
5. Bengal Famine of 1943
6. Armenian Genocide (April 24,1915)
7. Darfur Genocide (2003-):
8. Asian Holocaust (1930s-1945)
9. Greek Genocide (1914-1923)
10. Herero and Namaqua Genocide (1904-1907):
and other places. They too, form part of the 53,000 verses of the Quran encouraging killings, according to the creator of the NEW QURAN, Mr, Mrs, or whatever, Strixy, the barktender.
Just look around and you will see it is the western lead forces which has destroyed an entire iraqi civilization without any proof of WMD or links to alqaeda .
people in the west are fools to play at the hands of their governments which need military industry complex to support their unjust cause.
one should also remember the unjust wars in the following countries !
Afghanistan
Iraq -
Lebanon -
Libya -
and now they are after iran and syria !
shame on western media who wont cover the ground realities in the above countries and feed their population with twisted facts !
There have been thousands of articles written by the western media on those countries.
Your right, they don't mention the reality that the overwhelming majority of the deaths in those countries have been committed by muslims on muslims.
Oh really !!
checking the media coverage by CCN , BBC, FOX doesnt really depict these !
who are hell bent on making grounds for 2 more wars - IRAN and SYRIA !
This mainstream media always provide the biased coverage and Its all about the resources and OIL
and they dont even mention who provide the ammunition and support to the dictators in those countries to SERVE THEIR OWN INTEREST !
Keep on feeding the military industrial complex !
None of the stuff you have mentoned were wars caused to spread religion. This simply cannot be compared with jihad.
However, Holocaust, Peal Harbour, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were caused because Western democracies preferred to appease a group of fanatics instead of dealing with them firmly, so finally things got out of hand. I hope this mistake will not be repeated...
Arabs actively supported Hitler and Himmler was especially fascinated with Islam. :)
1. Congo
Caused by ongoing tribal disputes and greed of African leaders. Not quite sure where you got your info from on this one....
4. Ukrainian Famine
Caused by the Soviet regime, not democracy. Premeditated by a dictator Joseph Stalin. Another reason why we should not give in to a dictatorship of any kind.
5. Bengal Famine of 1943
A direct result of the II World War caused by the nazis with whom Arabs actively symphatised :)
6. Armenian Genocide (April 24,1915)
Systematic killing of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire. Should i remind you what religion was official in Ottoman Empire? Hint: it was not Christianity :)
7. Darfur Genocide (2003-):
he Darfur Genocide took place in response to uprisings against ARAB led government in Darfur. In other words, Arabs did it to the Darfur people.
8. Asian Holocaust (1930s-1945)
Hirohito. Another dictateur. Again, another reason on the long list of why dictatorship of any kind should not be tolerated. This includes theocratic regime too.
9. Greek Genocide (1914-1923)
Yes, OTTOMAN empire again! Should I remind you what religion was the official religion of the Ottoman empire? Their flag confirms there was no separation of state and religion.
10. Herero and Namaqua Genocide (1904-1907
Caused by colonialism, something that Europeans have repeatedly apologised for and have taken actve steps to make up for it.
As you can see top-10-list.org is not really a reliable source of information if you are looking for stuff to blame on the modern European democracy :D
In case you do not understand, the vast majority of Europeans and Americans despise any form of violence and they have the gust to be vocal about it. Can the same be said about Muslims' attitude to religious fundamentalists?
"and they dont even mention who provide the ammunition and support to the dictators in those countries to SERVE THEIR OWN INTEREST !"
I counted at least 100 on this list, from at least 50 different countries, if not more.
Lots of dirty hands in the pot.
Link,
"List of modern arms manufacturers"
Is killing really bad?! Then why Sweden is biggest producer of weapon?! Why the US has waged a full scale war every decade?! I'm afraid that we don't see killing bad when we don't like the victim! So maybe the other side has a similar point?!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2112960/90-students-Iraq-stoned-death-having-Emo-hair-tight-clothes.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Here's your future if these people get their way...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2112960/90-students-Iraq-stoned-death-having-Emo-hair-tight-clothes.html?ito=feeds-newsxml "
I have never seen muslims take to the streets to display their outrage over atrocities like this that are committed by their brothers, but draw a cartoon or deface just one koran, and all hell breaks loose.
I personally do not go to street to show my outrage! How many people in the US or Sweden have gone to streets after many occasions of their soldiers or weapons being used to kill school kids or civilians for fun in Iraq?!! It doesn't mean they agree with killing kids. It means they do not care enough. You cannot expect 1 billion Muslims to care about what their so-called brothers may do thousands of kilometers far away. I guess we all have a problem of applying double standard!
@Everyone: keep fighting b-tch-e-s !!!!! > ; )
@asse: Seriously please stop ur sh-t .. ur doing more harm then good to anyone. Its ----ing hard to change anyone perspective especially if ur not enough knowledgeable. Also this not even a proper forum to address ur justifications to ur beliefs.
There have been many anti-war protests in the streets of the U.S., and other Western countries as well.
They all took place, "thousands of kilometers away".
"According to the French academic Dominique Reynié, between January 3 and April 12, 2003, 36 million people across the globe took part in almost 3,000 protests against the Iraq war.
In the United States, even though pro-war demonstrators have been quoted as referring to anti-war protests as a "vocal minority",[4] Gallup Polls updated September 14, 2007 state, "Since the summer of 2005, opponents of the war have tended to outnumber supporters. A majority of Americans believe the war was a mistake."
In America, anti war protests go back decades.
Your "applying a double standard" comment, is on very thin ice.
Because those who do oppose it would end up dead the same way and unfortunately many silently do not oppose it and want the religious nuts to take over. Either way the lunatics get free reign to do as they please.
Welcome to Islamic "democracy".
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2112960/90-students-Iraq-stoned-death-having-Emo-hair-tight-clothes.html#ixzz1okmmCquW
But of course covering one's whole face and body in a threatenning manner in Sweden, France, Norway, England or Germany is just a human right, yes?
Hypocrites.
"" Ever since its creation, the US has had a role to play in combat operations worldwide. Today the country's public opinion is dominated by warfare, making American society all-too-easily manipulated and turned against practically any country. The US has a strong record of persuading the public that war is the only way. A military industrial complex worth billions of dollars is largely America's driving force. Deeply rooted in the system, it would serve no purpose if there was no one to fight. The US always has a bone to pick with one enemy after another. For nearly half a century it was the Soviet Union.""
EU is a lapdog of US and following along the same lines. It should be thankful to the 2 muslim countries Pakistan and Afghanistan for saving them from USSR - fighting their war and disintegrating USSR !
In case you are not familiar with the European history, it was actually Poland that started the peaceful disintegration of the Soviet Union.
You seem to have conveniently forgotten that Afgan mujahideens won the war with the Soviet Union ONLY because they received substantial military help from various countries, including the USA, the UK and yes, Israel. They were scared of USSR advancing so they decided to support theocrats and religious fanatics.
The mujahideens disliked the idea of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, for obvious reasons but mainly because the People's Party of Afghanistan introduced reforms including giving equal rights to women and universal education. This is not something any Islamic radical would tolerate.
"The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan (DRA), in 1987 renamed the Republic of Afghanistan, covers the period when the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) ruled the country. The PDPA came to power through a coup, popularly referred to as the Saur Revolution, which ousted the unpopular government of Mohammad Daoud Khan. Daoud was succeeded by Nur Muhammad Taraki as head of state and government on 30 April 1978. Taraki and Hafizullah Amin, the organiser of the Saur Revolution, introduced several unpopular reforms during their rule, the most notable being equal rights to women, universal education and land reform."
IMO, it was a mistake to help the mujahideens. While a communist system is opressive, people do not get stoned for wearing inappropriate clothes, women do not get stoned for adultery when they have been raped etc. I happen to have lived in a Sovet state and while it was far from okay, it was not neraly as oppressive as living under sharia law.
"You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176
I could easily find more quotes like this.
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176
I could easily find more quotes like this."
"What does the Religion of Peace Teach About "Violence
Excerpt,
"The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter."
Yet you will find not one word about love for mankind in the koran.
But before sayin bye, bye, I will repeat: Vilks is a clown in search of publicity so he han sell his very mediocre "art" and he has been very clever when utilizing Swedish media to back him up.
'There have been endless derogatory cartoons and print material about Jews and Christians ever since i can remember, and i'm a senior.
Many of them have been drawn and written by muslims, and they continue to this day.
No riots, no death threats, no murders etc.
I'm a non believer, and the koran insults the hell out of me, and even calls for my death.
So what make muslims so special, that they feel they have the license to insult, threaten, murder, and print derogatory material, but everyone else does not?
"But before sayin bye, bye, I will repeat: Vilks is a clown in search of publicity so he han sell his very mediocre "art" and he has been very clever when utilizing Swedish media to back him up."
And he has the right to be a clown if he wishes to without risking being executed, egged or silenced in any other way. If you cannot accept this, maybe consider moving to a country that will repress freedom of speech not to insult people like you. Luckily, most Western democracies have not fallen this low yet.
Personally,I think the case of van Gogh should have served as a lesson to the European governments. Sadly, it did not and they have been making the same mistakes again and again.
In the UK it is okay to sack an employer who wears a cross pendant but not one who wears hijab even though both are a display of religious views. Total paranoia.
Vilks should consider himself a very lucky person, because instead of eggs, someone might
have thrown him stones, tomatoes, avocados, pineapples and whatever they had on hand.
al-qaeda-is-offering-150000-to-murder-the-swedish-cartoonist-for-his-dog-with-a-muhammad-head-cartoon
Sorry, but it is not over a pencil drawing. Let me refresh your memory:
The Lars Vilks Muhammad drawings controversy began in July 2007 with a series of drawings "painted" him that depicted the Islamic prophet Muhammad as a roundabout dog (a form of street installation in Sweden).
Several art galleries in Sweden declined to show the drawings, citing security concerns and fear of violence. The controversy gained international attention after the Örebro-based regional newspaper Nerikes Allehanda published one of the drawings on 18 August to illustrate an editorial on self-censorship and freedom of religion.[1]
While several other leading Swedish newspapers had published the drawings already, this particular publication led to protests from Muslims in Sweden as well as official condemnations from several foreign governments including Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, and Jordan, as well as by the inter-governmental Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC).
The controversy occurred about a year and a half after the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy in Denmark in early 2006.
Lars Vilks started by taking advantage of the controversy in Denmark in early 2006. He clearly realized that by doing the same, he would get fame in Sweden where his "works of art" where so lousy that he barely survived with their sale.
He is a "painter" with a good marketing mind. His purpose with his so-called conferences is not the defense of freedom of speech but the promotion of his lousy art.
He is enjoying the protection giving him by SÄPO (the Swedish Secret Service), but people around him or those who attend his so-called conferences, are without protection and at the mercy of some sort of attack.
Besides, the Swedes are paying his protection with the taxes they pay to the government. This situation should be stopped. Why should Sweden's inhabitants pay for the protection of a stupid who has kept on insulting other countries' religious beliefs?
Yes. He even has the right to be what he has always been: A JERK. And his "paintings" have nothing humorous. They are plain garbage. I am as offended as you, that he has gotten his rubbish published. But ameribrit: Do you think that Swedes are well known for their good tast of art? Instead of going to good art exhibitions, they are known for going to crappy exhibitions of the so-called "modern art" where a toilet in blue with white s... on top is exhibit as a masterpiece. Or, am I wrong?
I think the "what constitutes art?" is an ongoing farce globally not just in Sweden. I don't know where you hail from but the Tate Modern in the UK is a good example of what you are talking about. The sheep of the world tend to like the art that they are told they should like. Christo being a prime example in this case. Although I do believe that Christo has a damn site more talent than Vilks. Unfortunately in the Lars Vilks case I think he is being supported out of a misguided sense of patriotism, (another global problem), if he was an American he would have had all peace loving Swedes along with the rest of the hate everything American crowd screaming about what an insensitive ass he was.
That's quite the sweeping statement against all Swedes.
So what your saying is, whatever art does not fit your criteria is crappy?
I should have written "a great majority of the Swedes are well known for their lack of taste towards art". Believe me bcterry. I really know what am I talking about.
But you are right in one part of your comment, because taste for art is quite subjective.What is warm for you, might be cold for me.
In my opinion, if a certain type of "art" does not fit into my criteria, is crappy. But, on the other hand, if that same art is judged under your criteria, it might be a masterpiece comparable to the masterpieces of Rubens, DaVinci, Velazquez, Murillo and the really masters of what I consider out of this world painters.
I believe that Lars Vilks does not even know how to imitate a Picasso sketch or the sunflowers. Perhaps he does not even know who Picasso was. Perhaps he thinks he was an Italian racer.
If muslims want to persecute someone for criticizing their faith then they shouldnt come anywhere near the western world.
And any western country should defend freedom above religious belief.
otherwise we might as well start persecuting religious people if a western country makes it easier to oppress than to be oppressed. and that wouldnt be good either. law is for all no matter color or creed or wtv they are from.
vilks didnt break any laws but the people threatning his life are breaking the law and should be treated as criminals. Agree with his art or not he is being persecuted.
An entire civilization was destroyed in IRAQ. Everyday there are incidents in Afghanistan and IRAq where NATO AND US soldiers kills innocent civilians - still the free society of Europe doesn't report those .
Its a shame they call themselves champions of Human Rights .
shame !
I had look at his art for the first time.
What i see is freedom, and i would defend his right, and others like him, to create whatever they feel, like it or not.
It's something we would never see in a fascist, totalitarian society, i.e. islamic states, and if we allow those who are infiltrating our society, with an agenda of such, to dictate where our freedom begins and ends, we are in big trouble.
True art has no bounds, and if nothing else, artists like Vilks make you think, and that's not a bad thing.
There is nothing in this world that is above scrutiny, that includes Vilks, AND muhammad.
IMO, Vilks is not the villain here, it's those who lose their minds over this, and strike out violently.
You say the majority of Swedes like this kind of art, i say, so what? If it is not forced upon you, me, or anyone else, then we all have the freedom to ignore and move on.
"@OUIJA "They should keep protecting him because its his freedom of speech."
Yes. And we will keep on paying for his protection so he can keep on selling his crap disguised by his interpretation of what freedom of speech means.
And then you keep on writing about breaking the law. Could you please explain me where is the Law that regulates freedom of speech?. The Law that says that you are allow to say this and that and that you are not allow to say this and that?
I repeat. Vilks, regardless of the poverty of his so-called art, is nothing else than a clown riding on the "freedom of speech" to sell his crap. And this is my opinion, whether you like it or not.
His case is not a case of "freedom of speech". It is a case of freedom to cheat those who defend the vulnerable freedom of speech. He has managed to deceive all of those who in the name of political correctness (Sweden and other countries) keep on defending this Swedish Phoenician in his pursuit to be a item for the Swedish tabloids assisted by those unable to see and understand the truth behind his motives.
11:52 March 14, 2012 by bcterry
"What i see is freedom, and i would defend his right, and others like him, to create whatever they feel, like it or not."
Bcterry: If you see "freedom" in his paintings, something is rotten and not in Denmark. If you see angels in one of the famous Van Gogh's "Sunflowers" paintings and do not see that they really express emotions typically associated with the life of sunflowers, then, your perception of art is quite superior to the rest of the humanity. Congratulations!
"True art has no bounds, and if nothing else, artists like Vilks make you think, and that's not a bad thing."
I agree with you. Artists like Vilks make me think that he should sell peanuts in a movie house instead of thinking and classifying himself as a painter.
To refresh your memory, here I go:
"According to the Freedom Forum Organization, legal systems, and society at large, recognize limits on the freedom of speech, particularly when freedom of speech conflicts with other values or rights.
"Limitations to freedom of speech may follow the "harm principle" or the "offense principle", for example in the case of pornography, religious belief or hate speech. Limitations to freedom of speech may occur through legal sanction or social disapprobation, or both."
But, as you say, let's move on and let Vilks provoke a mayor catastrophe in the name of his, yours and others remarkable interpretation of "freedom of speech".
11:26 March 14, 2012 by b_raz_swed
"US and NATO attacked and killed MILLIONS in AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ.
An entire civilization was destroyed in IRAQ."
This comment deserves a "no comments" comment.
" If you see "freedom" in his paintings, something is rotten and not in Denmark. If you see angels in one of the famous Van Gogh's "Sunflowers" paintings and do not see that they really express emotions typically associated with the life of sunflowers, then, your perception of art is quite superior to the rest of the humanity. Congratulations!"
You're the judge here, not me.
"Limitations to freedom of speech may follow the "harm principle" or the "offense principle", for example in the case of pornography, religious belief or hate speech. Limitations to freedom of speech may occur through legal sanction or social disapprobation, or both."
Well if that's the case, how come you are not calling for a ban on the koran?
And I can clearly see that you are another who cannot or does not want to read properly that
according to the Freedom Forum Organization, legal systems, and society at large, recognize limits on the freedom of speech, particularly when freedom of speech conflicts with other values or rights.
"That limitations to freedom of speech may follow the "harm principle" or the "offense principle", for example in the case of pornography, religious belief or hate speech. Limitations to freedom of speech may occur through legal sanction or social disapprobation, or both..
You try to teach religion to those who knows about religion. Do you want to ban the Al-Qur'an, be my guest. Do not come to me with your baloney and understand that the Freedom Forum Organization is only one of the many organizations that define freedom of speech they ways it is written above. I did not invent the luke-warm water as you are trying to do.
To me that reads, there are limitations on free speech if there is harm to others, or if it contains hate towards others.
Is that not the gist?
"You try to teach religion to those who knows about religion." Really, then why don't you address he contents of my posts, and point out specifically what points you disagree with?
"Do you want to ban the Al-Qur'an, be my guest."
I'm not calling for the ban on anything, i'm calling for equality, and the right to scrutinize.
If you have a problem with that, then state your case.
"Do not come to me with your baloney and understand that the Freedom Forum Organization is only one of the many organizations that define freedom of speech they ways it is written above. I did not invent the luke-warm water as you are trying to do."
??? This makes no sense whatsoever, other than your getting in another condescending shot, so maybe you should clarify.
'You seem to have conveniently forgotten that Afgan mujahideens won the war with the Soviet Union ONLY because they received substantial military help from various countries'
It seems you can't grasp that 'Substantial military equipment' doesn't guarantee anything in battles. if it had been the case then the US-NATO wouldn't have been losing in Afghanistan. Or the outcome of Vietnam War had been different . Afghan mujahideen and ISI pakistan were the key players involved in the disintegration of USSR. People who cherish the so called freedom of speech in EU should be thankful to the 2 muslim countries !
Well the tides are turning and the balance of power is shifting from west to east. Russia already had shown its muscles in the security council.
There will be multi polar world in the future !
"That limitations to freedom of speech may follow the "harm principle" or the "offense principle", for example in the case of pornography, religious belief or hate speech. Limitations to freedom of speech may occur through legal sanction or social disapprobation, or both.. "
To me that reads, there are limitations on free speech if there is harm to others, or if it contains hate towards others.
Is that not the gist?
The essential part (gist, as you wrote) is that you have not understood that Vilks "art" falls into the cases of "religious belief". Because, bcterry, I think that we are not discussing only his "paintings". We are discussing what he considers as "freedom of speech".
With you. Almost everything you have written, is plain rubbish. You look like a brother of @strixy, who wrote "There are over 53000 verses in Quran encouraging killing."
"Do you want to ban the Al-Qur'an, be my guest."
I'm not calling for the ban on anything, i'm calling for equality, and the right to scrutinize.
If you have a problem with that, then state your case.
Yes, you are. Don't play the Swede.
"Do not come to me with your baloney and understand that the Freedom Forum Organization is only one of the many organizations that define freedom of speech they ways it is written above. I did not invent the luke-warm water as you are trying to do."
??? This makes no sense whatsoever, other than your getting in another condescending shot, so maybe you should clarify.
O.K. Let me clarify: 2+2=4, 1+3=4, 0+4=4, 3+1=4, 4+0=4. Is this clear enough for you?
In Sweden, Hate speech laws prohibit threats or expressions of contempt based on race, skin colour, nationality or ethnic origin, religious belief or sexual orientation. For me, Vilks drawings about
Muhammed is a threat against the religious beliefs of Islam.
But, what really is hate speech, Mr. Strawberry?
dictionary.com, "speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation."
usaeducationguides.com, "A term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against someone based on race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. The term covers written as well as oral communication."
definitions.uslegal.com, "Hate speech is a communication that carries no meaning other than the expression of hatred for some group, especially in circumstances in which the communication is likely to provoke violence. It is an incitement to hatred primarily against a group of persons defined in terms of race, ethnicity, national origin, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and the like. Hate speech can be any form of expression regarded as offensive to racial, ethnic and religious groups and other discrete minorities or to women."
If you think the opposite, well, let me go to the 2+2=4, 1+3=4 stuff of clarification.
That's a good one, thanks for the chuckle.
The rest of your insults are quite humerus as well, keep em coming.
"dictionary.com, "speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation."
usaeducationguides.com, "A term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against someone based on race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. The term covers written as well as oral communication.
definitions.uslegal.com, "Hate speech is a communication that carries no meaning other than the expression of hatred for some group, especially in circumstances in which the communication is likely to provoke violence. It is an incitement to hatred primarily against a group of persons defined in terms of race, ethnicity, national origin, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and the like. Hate speech can be any form of expression regarded as offensive to racial, ethnic and religious groups and other discrete minorities or to women."
You have just made my point about islam.
I can't thank you enough.
"The rest of your insults are quite humerus as well, keep em coming."
I can see that you know something of anatomy (humerus) but nothing about logic. I have not insulted you. I have not insulted Islam. I could not care less about Islam, and that is not an insult.
Now, do you want an insult? O.K. Here I go:
I should have meant -which I have not and will not- that you are a
nincompoop; idiot, simpleton, fool, dunce, dummy, clown, fake, pretender, deceiver, swindler, hypocrite, liar, dissembler, phony, phoney; but since you are one of the most intelligent posters in The Local, I would never do it. You certainly do not deserve those lousy adjectives pertaining your atributes. No way. It would be to cheap on my part.
You deserve the best of the best for your super education and knowledge about what freedom of speech is and the back up you have given to the modern Swedish Da Vinci, Mr. Lars Vilks.
And since I fully agree with your viewpoints, I have to throw the towell, go to relax and hope that I will never meet in the ring such a heavy weight.
Do not thank me. Thank yourselv for being so witty, that even Oscar Wilde will resucitate to come and take lessos from you. .
Do not come to me with your baloney and understand that the Freedom Forum Organization is only one of the many organizations that define freedom of speech they ways it is written above. I did not invent the luke-warm water as you are trying to do.
With you. Almost everything you have written, is plain rubbish. You look like a brother of @strixy, who wrote "There are over 53000 verses in Quran encouraging killing.
But, what really is hate speech, Mr. Strawberry?
nincompoop; idiot, simpleton, fool, dunce, dummy, clown, fake, pretender, deceiver, swindler, hypocrite, liar, dissembler, phony, phoney;
I clearly wrote "I should have meant -which I have not and will not- that you are a nincompoop; idiot, simpleton, fool, dunce, dummy, clown, fake, pretender, deceiver, swindler, hypocrite, liar, dissembler, phony, phoney.
And since I stated that I should have meant that but that I did not, I have never insulted. I just had it in my mind, and that, Strawberry, is not forbidden, or is it?
I can clearly see now that your are the author of some 20,000 verses in the Quran, of the 53,000 counted by your brother in arms.
RIP
All insults are not hate speech, and i never suggested that those examples were hate, your words, not mine.
And you accuse me of being "another who cannot or does not want to read properly that"
"Do you want to ban the Al-Qur'an, be my guest."
I'm not calling for the ban on anything, i'm calling for equality, and the right to scrutinize.
"Yes, you are. Don't play the Swede. "
An accusation with no basis is fact.
" If you see "freedom" in his paintings, something is rotten and not in Denmark. If you see angels in one of the famous Van Gogh's "Sunflowers" paintings and do not see that they really express emotions typically associated with the life of sunflowers, then, your perception of art is quite superior to the rest of the humanity. Congratulations!"
A baseless assumption on my artistic taste, as i never mentioned anything about what i do, or do not enjoy.
I said i appreciate right of freedom of artistic expression, "LIKE IT OR NOT"
Once again,
"And I can clearly see that you are another who cannot or does not want to read properly"
Pot ....... Kettle ....... Black?
stop criticizing his art, thats not the issue no one cares if he is good or not.
and there are laws of freedom of speech, he gets to say religion is stupid, and other people DO NOT get to threaten his life and persecute him for it. (they also get to say his art is bad but not threaten and plan to kill him)
and thats whats happening, he is being persecuted and marked for death and threatened because he drew a CARTOON!!!! (nvm if its a good or bad cartoon its a Fkn CARTOON)
If we wont protect a guy who is being marked for death because of a cartoon then all laws about freedom and democracy are a hipocrisy.
its enough in sweden criminals get better treatment than victims, my tax payer money? id rather it to be used on a guy like vilks than on child molestors or other criminals that go to jail get free university and internet acess and food etc and then come out and keep doing crimes and molesting children.
I discovered that your name is not bcterry, but bctoyterrier. Very, very small in fact.
This is the reason others and me could never understand you, because you do not talk, you bark. So, I will try to say goodbye to you in your language:
Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
@Grokh # 107
I do wnat I want to do and not what you want me to do. Got it. The issue is that through his art, he is doing hate speech against a religion, and that, Grokh, is the issue, whether you understand this, or not.
Do youYou want to keep on paying taxes so the police keeps on protecting a Phoenician merchant, be my guest.
"20:11 March 15, 2012 by OUIJA
No, Mr. Strawberry. That is not hate speech. Ii is the truth."
What a HYPOCRITE!
When it suits him, it's the truth, no matter how little merit there is in his insult he so keenly dishes out to everyone whit a different opinion than his own.
When other people try to tell their truth, it is insult.
There is more merit in Vilk's little cartoons than in your empty insult, mister.
Typical mentality of a religious fanatic.
How many verses has the Quran? 53,000?
And how many jerks has this thread? ONE: STRIXY.
Even if you join forces with the toyterrier, you are and never will be a match for me, you Islam HATER, who rewrites the Quraan to fit its twisted mind. Who is the religious fanatic? I do not give a hood for Islam, but you will die if your so-called truths against this religion is not taken seriously. Your aim is not to defend freedom of speech, like you should. Your aim has been to destroy those who profess the Islamic religion. THAT HAS BEEN YOUR GOAL, OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
But, how can others and I take your comments seriously when they have proven to be a bunch of lies? Go back to the thread and you will see how many times they have put you on the floor because of your lies and twisted "comments". If you want, I can do it for you, just to refresh your lost in the wilderness memory.
'in the quran and converses, the result came as: 35213 times those words were mentioned
in the quran and converses (that can be verified by anyone who search of those words on
Al-Azhar web site over the internet) "
father Zakaria Botros
Just to clarify, I do not lean towards Christianity but I do respect this scholar for firghting Islamic radicals with their own weapon - Quran.
Re 53000 verses - my mistake, I should have been more precise. The word 'kill' with all its derivatives and synonyms is mentoned in Quran more than 5300 times. It has nothing to o with verses.
"Your aim has been to destroy those who profess the Islamic religion."
No, my aim is to expose the lies and danger in religious fanatism. Sadly, it is not any other fanatism but Islamic that poses a threat to democracy and free speech in Europe and America today.
You are welcome to believe in whatever you want but if you preach sharia law, stoning of adulterers and death to apostates, you are a threat to civilisation. This is what I think.
If what I write bothers you so much, you are exposing yourself and proving my point. Thank you.
"I made a research for the number of times the ward "Fight, kill, war, Al-Jihad, assassination.
'in the quran and converses, the result came as: 35213 times those words were mentioned
in the quran and converses (that can be verified by anyone who search of those words on
Al-Azhar web site over the internet) "
father Zakaria Botros"
No kidding. You have "The Wars of Muhammad" as your bible. No wonder. Well, let me tell you, that I just made a research Father Aakaria Botros lied in his "The Wars of Muhammad" and I found out he lied around 11,256 times.
"Just to clarify, I do not lean towards Christianity but I do respect this scholar for firghting Islamic radicals with their own weapon - Quran."
Strixy. Shall we talk about freedom of speech or will you continue with the war against Islam. I repeat once more, in the hope that my repetition fills your empty head: I DO NOT CARE ABOUT ISLAM. I CARE ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
"Re 53000 verses - my mistake, I should have been more precise. The word 'kill' with all its derivatives and synonyms is mentoned in Quran more than 5300 times. It has nothing to o with verses."
Strixy: according to your quotation about Father Askaria Botros, he found out that 35213 times, the words Fight, kill, war, Al-Jihad, assassination, appear in the Quran and converses. Now you come out that they appear more than 5,300 times. Make up your mind. There are 29,916 times of difference.
"Your aim has been to destroy those who profess the Islamic religion."
No, my aim is to expose the lies and danger in religious fanatism. Sadly, it is not any other fanatism but Islamic that poses a threat to democracy and free speech in Europe and America today.
Here, strixy, is a very rare time that I have to agree with you, in spite of the fact that I do not give a hood for Islam. But, going back to your beloved Vilks, that is what he has done with his little paintings (you qualified them as little, not me).
"You are welcome to believe in whatever you want but if you preach sharia law, stoning of adulterers and death to apostates, you are a threat to civilisation. This is what I think."
Now, again, this is one of your many beautiful twisted interpretations of what has, is and will be said. Where in the hell did you get that I preach sharia law? Your mother might do it, but do not take me as one of your relatives. That would really be a great insult.
"If what I write bothers you so much, you are exposing yourself and proving my point. Thank you."
@strixy. I do not care what you write. It does not bother me. What bothers me is people's (you and many others) stubborness. That is what bothers me. You bother me as you bother many others in the different thread in The Local.
When will you grow up? You, IN MY OPINION, are nothing more than a spoiled brat who thinks can debate with the heavyweight class.
Thanks for your last response, it was exactly as expected.
I would classify it as juvenile, but it doesn't come up to that standard.
"Heavyweight class" debater?.
LMAO
wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
The Local does not allow subsequent comments nor editing so I had to wait until someone posted something first.
It's really sad to see someone so full of hate and brainwashed by religion like you, OUIJA.
Dishing out abuse about my an my family does not make you any more credible. On the contrary, it shows what a narrow-minded individual you are. Others have arguments but you just should abuse. Yet, you feel insulted by one cartoon and want to have it banned. Vilks is right to draw them, they expose the hypocrisy, double standards and ignorance of people like you.
"I forgot to add that the 53000 is Quran plus Hadith. This is approximately how many times the word kill, slaughet, slay etc is mentioned in both. Check for yourself."
Yes, Pinocchio. I will check. Ho, ho, ho. What a poor way to recognize that you lied and tried to catch us with our hands down.
"It's really sad to see someone so full of hate and brainwashed by religion like you, OUIJA."
Yes, Pinocchio. I am brainwashed by religion. Ho, ho, ho.
"Dishing out abuse about my an my family does not make you any more credible."
No, Pinocchio. I tried to be nice with Mrs. Gepetto.
"Yet, you feel insulted by one cartoon and want to have it banned. Vilks is right to draw them, they expose the hypocrisy, double standards and ignorance of people like you"
No, Pinocchio. I do not feel insulted by trash. I only defend my viewpoint about freedom of speech, regardless if the "ARTIST" is Vilks, Pinocchio or Obama.
No Pinocchio, no. I do not want the cartoon to be banned. I want Vilks to stop using everybody's right to freedom of speech, to sell his paintings via insulting a religion. And it does not matter if it is Islam, catholic or whatever. He is doing hate speech via his "little" cartoons and by his well paid performances.
Now,
wow, wow, wow, wow (the only language that you seem to understand)
Go and fly a kite, please. You are really a sick individual with delirium tremens. Stop drinking. It is bad for your health
But criticizing religion is not hate speech, and if you think blasphemy laws should be in place to protect religion go live in a place where they would chop your head off for saying "oh my f*king god"
and why should any religion be exempted from criticism , the past 7 thousand years are prove that the less criticism religion gets the more atrocities they do.
His free speech here is a criticism to islam, he has done similar to christians and no one persecuted him for that.
so doesnt that make it a good criticism when you say something is fishy and they want to kill you for it ? they are just proving him right.
So i wish more people would criticize religion the way he did , not just islam but all religions. But apparently you only get death threats from islam and that means they need the most criticism right now.
Albeith the latest scandals with pedophile priests in christian churches just keep piling up but no one gets arrested . Its like the world is in denial of how religion has the power to give excuse and cover up for horrible things and justify horrible acts.
so vilks is a victim for saying religion is stupid and is being persecuted for criticizing a religion. and as far as i know in the western world most countries defend freedom of religion, and thats the freedom to be in a religion as well as the freedom to criticize religions.
And if you get persecuted for criticizing a religion it is the same as being persecuted for being in a religion.
the blasphemy (criticizing ones faith) thing doesnt apply because all religions are blasphemous to eachother solely by existing.
You should go back many threads to read what stixy has written. Only by doing so, you will fully understand that
1./ I am not the one who has tried over and over again to talk about Islam as a religion which in the Quran, has 53,000 times the words killing, assasination, etc. Now he admits that he forgot to add that the 53000 is Quran plus Hadith.
So please, do not jump into conclussions with me before you clearly read what both sides have written.
And I will repeat to you, that I do not care about Islam, but I care about freedom of speech. And if you do not agree with me, do not insult me like strixy has done.
He is a liar and that has been proven not only by me, but by others as well.
"the blasphemy (criticizing ones faith) thing doesnt apply because all religions are blasphemous to eachother solely by existing. "
Exactly, and herein lies the arrogant hypocrisy of those who believe their religions are above criticism.
The koran is full of insults to others, bigotry, intolerance, subjugation, threats of death to innocents, inequality and a stated agenda for a dictatorial, fascist theocratic world dominance.
All of that is practiced every day at the detriment of innocent people.
I refuse to and accept their insults and threats without retaliation, and will continue to expose this sickness at every opportunity.
Those who are offended by that can take their complaints to those who preach it and practice it, and stay out of the way of those who speak out against it.
We didn't start this, ....... they did.
"and why should any religion be exempted from criticism , the past 7 thousand years are prove that the less criticism religion gets the more atrocities they do."
There is a large movement now in the US and in Europe of so-called 'academic' scholars who campaign for a new meaning of freedom of expression: In their eyes freedom of expression means freedom of religious expression i.e. freedom of religion from criticism.
Looks like OUIJA is their spokesman ;)
Regarding 53000 times Quran and Hadith mention killing, war, slaughter or other form of extreme violence, I did not believe that too. So I checked. And guess what, Zakara Boutros is right! I am not a Christian but I respect this man for his in depth knowledge of both Bible and Quran and for being brave enough to fight the Islamic radicals with their own weapon.
The bounty on his head is currently 60 million US dollars. Thanks to people like OUIJA of course who actively support gagging other so that religious superstitions can take us back to the VIIth century... .
Now I am really pissed of by you. You are nothing but a schizophrenic-paranoid "human being" with Delirium Tremens.
"the past 7 thousand years are prove that the less criticism religion gets, the more atrocities they do"
I can see that Wikipedia is your bible and that you copy exactly what is written there. How original. The problem is that you do not quote the origin of your writings, like a decent person should do.
"Regarding 53000 times Quran and Hadith mention killing, war, slaughter or other form of extreme violence, etc, etc"
You never learn. Instead of coming out with something new, you come out with the same old BS.
You might check what you read, but you neither analyse it, nor read in between lines for their meanings. Pathetic.
"The bounty on his head…"
Where in the hell did you get this, Pinocchio? Oh, I got it again. Wikipedia. Yes, Wikipedia, your bed bible. Yes, of course, the one named "Islam's Public Enemy No. 1. But you know something, Pinocchio? I am a catholic and if father Zacaria Botros is public enemy No. 1 from Islam, I should be on his side. Simple logics, But since you have not the faintest idea how logic works, you twist things to suit your devious purposes. Again, you are a pathetic schizophrenic-paranoid "human being" suffering from Delirium Tremens.
But Pinocchio, why do you not write here what I was informed: that you belong to an organization such as the one a certain Norwegian belongs, that is raising fonds to attack muslims here and there and see if it can wipe them from planet Earth?. I would not like to believe that you have fallen so low, but I have done my checkings and your C.V. on that line looks to be quite amazing, really amazing. Believe me. I do not use Wikipedia to check on "human beings" like you. I have my very special sources, not like the ones Julian Assange has, but they do function as well.
You should stop gagging, little, little Pinocchio. You only produce farts with your deteriorated brains and you will pollute the atmosphere with the methane gases.coming with them.
I hope that you found the kite I recommended you to buy and that you can go and fly a kite.
"Now I am really pissed of by you. You are nothing but a schizophrenic-paranoid "human being" with Delirium Tremens."
Takes one to know one. ;D
The fact that I have managed to p*ss you off like that just proves that I am probably right in every single word I have written.
Polish people have a nice xpression for this phenomenon: 'bang your fist on the table and the scissors will ring' or 'the truth pricks the eyes'. Very apt indeed :D
Thank you OUIJA for proving my point :) Religious fanatics like you are a threat to the world.
@OUIJA,
"Now I am really pissed of by you. You are nothing but a schizophrenic-paranoid "human being" with Delirium Tremens."
"Takes one to know one. ;D"
No, strixy. It takes two to tango, but your mother was not available.
"The fact that I have managed to p*ss you off like that just proves that I am probably right in every single word I have written."
No, strixy. You managed to pxxss me off because it is simply incomprehensible that there is one moron such as you. And don't come me with your "takes one to know one" stupidity.
"Polish people have a nice xpression for this phenomenon: 'bang your fist on the table and the scissors will ring' or 'the truth pricks the eyes'. Very apt indeed :D"
How much would you have paid to come out with such an intelligent expressión? Why don't you come out with your own expressions instead of using others.
"Thank you OUIJA for proving my point :) Religious fanatics like you are a threat to the world."
This is the sum of your personality. You are not only a schizophrenic-paranoid "human being" with Delirium Tremens, but you suffer also from cretinism, the thyroid disease that causes mental and physical retardation
#123
07:33 March 18, 2012 by bcterry
"Zkara Botros:Islam's Scourge Returns"
Yes, Mr. Bcterry.
Father Zakaria Botros, also known as Islam's "Public Enemy #1," is back "disguised" in Oslo as Strixy. From around 2005-2010, this 76 year-old Coptic priest was Islam's bane. The problem for his copykitten (strixy) is that he will never have the 60 million tv viewers as the original Botros has had in the Arabic tv. The copykitten has only the readers of this Internet website, plus his family and mother -if he has one- and his Islam haters circle.
You are doing a massive favour to all the people who are wary of Islam advancing in Europe. You are a living example that this is indeed a very dangerous process and should be stopped.
@OUIJA
"You are doing a massive favour to all the people who are wary of Islam advancing in Europe. You are a living example that this is indeed a very dangerous process and should be stopped."
Now, strixy. I don't know if you are trying to flatter me or once more you think you can attack me, because the way you twist everything is rather confusing. As usual.
Throughout this thread, I have proven others and you, that I am not an Islamist. GOT IT? Or shall I repeat it. I AM A CATHOLIC and I guess you are a Polish immigrant in Norway.
But to finish -I hope- this idiotic, stupid, ridiculous, senseless, foolish "debate" with you, just let me inform you that I have written and produced many TV small capsules in which I warn about the dangers of the Islamisation of Europe. YES TRIXY. And I have done it in worldwide massmedia. Please, do not even try to start a discussion with me about journalism. Please! Please!
Perhaps you might be able to teach me about the Quran, once you properly learn not to mix up apples with bananas (your 53,000 apples mixed with bananas. Remember your MEA CULPA, MEA CULPA?) Once you stop inventing stories and rewriting them to fit your goals.
So, your "living example that this is a dangerous process and should be stopped" is quite ambiguous. If you are talking about Islam, I fully agree with you; but if you were talking about me, go to hell. You will never imagine whom are you discussing with.
Now, if you want me to open your eyes, only upon request I can write here a link where you, and others, might learn something about religion.
Very truly yours
QUIJA
Seeing that your a catholic, i was wondering what you think should happen to those who covered up the sexual abuse of innocent children, and then reassigned the abusers to another parish to continue to abuse more innocent children?
Also, what are your thoughts on ratzinger's 2001 edict?
I have to confess that I have not read Ratzinger's 2001 edict, but if I have some time, I will do it and will come to my own conclussions. Thanks for the tip.
The problem is, that many of those priests were moved numerous times because of complaints of sexual abuse.
Twice should have been more than sufficient to turn them in to the civilian authorities and let the law deal with them.
They instead put the church ahead of the sexual abuse of innocent children.
I'm pointing my finger at those on the top, including the pope himself, (saint???) who was not that ignorant to not know exactly what was going on.
To say that the media focused on this for the main reason of making money by selling copies is, well ..........................
"To say that the media focused on this for the main reason of making money by selling copies is, well .......................... "
O.K. Amongst the main item, but here in Sweden they treated the serious problem in the way they have market the Dawit Isaak campaign, which, by the way, is no longer running because the poor guy is already dead; Zlatan, Anja, ABBAS, Juholt, Assange, etc, etc.
Believe me. I know how media operates. But you are right in your comment. I do not discuss thatt, only the part on the media, because I know what am I talking about.
Have a good Sunday.Hear you in another thread. I will go and watch "Midsommar Murders".
Midsommar Murders is today very good.
But I will send you my credo, but before, I would like, if possible, that if you want to keep on debating with me, you should stick to Vilks.
To all:
Let me explain to you again my credo:
I don't smoke
I don't drink
I don't open my mouth before my brain
If I can avoid it,
I don't discuss politics
I don't discuss religion
I don't discuss feminism
I don't discuss sexual preferences
I don't discuss stupidities
I don't like mediocrity
I don't discuss other people's opinions
I don't discuss comments about my comments
I do give my opinion
I do comment the stories
I do give facts when needed
I do provide links when needed
I do like thinkers
I do write politically incorrect
I do like humanity
I do love this world
I do love everybody, until proven the opposite
From now on, I will have my credo again in front of my nose. Hope you do not mind.
Someday, your religion, and all the rest will be downgraded to (gasp) equality, and with that will come accountability.
Enjoy the movie.
"I don't blame you for not responding to the edict, after all, the only honest response would put your pope, and the "saint" before him, in one hell of a precarious position, no?"
And I really thought you had changed, at least a little bit, but no. I have not responded to the edict, because I have not read it. That is number one, and number two, now you are not also, in my opinion, a mediocre debater, but a mindreader. Now you think you know what my honest response will be. Good Lord! Some people's children.
"Someday, your religion, and all the rest will be downgraded to (gasp) equality, and with that will come accountability."
I do not give a damn if that happens since I will be not still around to testify the fact. The Local might become a poor focal media or might have been dissapeared and became dust, just like me. So, why worry with prophecies or wishful thinkings?
"Enjoy the movie"
I did and it was quite entertaining, far much better than this thread and the intelligent debates I have had with you and others like you. Hope you do not take it wrong. It was not meant to insult you but to give you my opinion about the intellectual level of some debaters. Don't you agree?.
"Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse"
"Ratzinger's Plan to Hide the Pedophiles "
"Pope must resign over cover up of child sex abuse"
These are but 3 links, of many that you will find with this simple search.
"Ratzinger's 2001 edict"
I agree, i'm not a debater, nor am i interested in becoming one, i just put out the facts, and let the chips can fall where they may.
" but since the catholic church is as huge as it is, it is easier for the media to sell more copies by targeting on it.."
No offense, but would that be the reason you wrote produced your many T.V. capsules on the" Islamisation of Europe"?
"Now you think you know what my honest response will be. Good Lord! Some people's children. "
Not my intention to make any assumptions, but the fact is, that any honest response would be damning, not only from you, but from anyone.
" but since the catholic church is as huge as it is, it is easier for the media to sell more copies by targeting on it.."
"No offense, but would that be the reason you wrote produced your many T.V. capsules on the" Islamisation of Europe"?"
I can see that your brain is not functioning properly. Take some sleep. One thing has nothing to do with the other. There are two different subjects. One thing is the catholic church and the other is the islamization of Europe. Got it? Or you need a repetition.
"Not my intention to make any assumptions, but the fact is, that any honest response would be damning, not only from you, but from anyone."
Do you really consider that if I have another response, this will be not honest, truthful, frank, candid? In other words, only your response is the one that is honest, truthful, frank, candid.
I can see that you are still in the phase of truly believing that what you say is the Bible, the Quran or whatever. You are dogmatic (authoritative, opinionated, intolerant, rigid)
You will never learn. I can clearly see that. By the way, did you properly read my credo? If not, here I go with some points of it:
If I can avoid it,
I don't discuss politics
I don't discuss religion
I don't discuss feminism
I don't discuss sexual preferences
I don't discuss stupidities
I don't like mediocrity
I don't discuss other people's opinions
I don't discuss comments about my comments
I have betrayed myself, because with you, it is impossible not to do it. You are hopeless.
I'm open to discuss any specific counters to what i've posted about your religion or islam, but for some reason you have gone out of your way to avoid them.
Show me with facts where my posts have been misplaced, and i will be quick to retract and stand corrected.
I have no problem admitting when i'm wrong.
I could care less about your credo, your personal life, or getting into a personal pixxing contest, but go ahead and fill your boots, i'm not interesred.
"I can see that your brain is not functioning properly. Take some sleep. One thing has nothing to do with the other. There are two different subjects. One thing is the catholic church and the other is the islamization of Europe. Got it? Or you need a repetition. "
I asked you if your intentions for making your tv shows, were the same as those who reported about your religion, they are both religions, both reported in the media, so your damn right they have something to do with each other.
"Got it?"
You said you don't comment on religion if you can avoid it, yet when i asked you what should be done to those who covered up the sexual abuse of innocent children, you were quick to call for their castration, then when i gave you the facts that show at least your last two popes were guilty of doing just that, then it's right in to a personal attack to avoid any further comment on the subject.
Yes, i'm "hopeless", hopelessly focused on documented verifiable facts.
I always find it odd how those facts bring some to rage.
You ideed are a hypocrite. You have spread yourself all over this site discussing nothing else but politics, religion and other people's opinion and now you've come up with some credo? Well, if this is your credo then you are not doing a very good job following it!
Another example that religion is no good for the brain... .
"I'm open to discuss any specific counters to what i've posted about your religion or islam, but for some reason you have gone out of your way to avoid them."
One more fart of your twisted paranoid mind.
"Show me with facts where my posts have been misplaced, and i will be quick to retract and stand corrected."
It would be a miracle. Do your own research.
"I have no problem admitting when i'm wrong."
It would be a miracle. The shrink must be working.
"I could care less about your credo, your personal life, or getting into a personal pixxing contest, but go ahead and fill your boots, i'm not interesred."
So, why do you keep on farting in this thread? Oh, I know. Because your brain is full of methane gas.
"I asked you if your intentions for making your tv shows, were the same as those who reported about your religion, they are both religions, both reported in the media, so your damn right they have something to do with each other."
No, they have nothing to do with each other. I gave my opinion on what the priests did and what should be done with them. That has happened with other representatives of other religions. About Islam, I did not discuss the religion, but pointed out the danger they
can become because they have invades almost everything in Europe.
Got it?
"You said you don't comment on religion if you can avoid it, yet when i asked you what should be done to those who covered up the sexual abuse of innocent children, you were quick to call for their castration, then when i gave you the facts that show at least your last two popes were guilty of doing just that, then it's right in to a personal attack to avoid any further comment on the subject."
What facts are talking about. You are having nightmares. Oh. What you mean I should have sent to the laboratory your farts in order to get the facts. Now I got it.
"Yes, i'm "hopeless", hopelessly focused on documented verifiable facts"
Oh yes.
"I always find it odd how those facts bring some to rage."
Oh yes.
#139 21:40 march 19, 2012 by strixy
@ooija "yoo ideed ur a hypocrite. ye hae spreid yerself aw ower thes site discussin' naethin' else but politics, religion an' other people's opinion an' noo yoo've come up wi' some credo? weel, if thes is yer credo 'en ye arenae daein' a huir uv a braw job followin' it!" specially wi' mental retarded fowk loch ye. Ah pure thooght ye hud given up. me discussin' politics an' religion? ye an' bcterry ur th' islam haters, nae me. Ah dinnae gie a bcshhit fur yer thooghts onie mair. "another example 'at religion is nae guid fur th' brain... ." yes, indeed. it produces morons loch ye
Made my day.
"What facts are talking about. You are having nightmares. Oh. What you mean I should have sent to the laboratory your farts in order to get the facts. Now I got it."
That one brought me to tears of laughter, i can't thank you enough, i'm still laughing.
Burabamboyyeyeguekobatatepuche.
ticoti auh ic ontlantiuk in cuicatl totoco totoco. xichocayan nicuicanitl nicitta noxochiuh zan nomac ommania zan quihuintia ye noyollo ni cuicatl aya nohuian nemia, zan ca ye noyollo notlayocola in cayo. xiuhtlamatelolla quetzalchalchiuhtla ipan ye nicmatia nocuic aya ma yectlaxochitl y, zan nomac ton mania.in quetzalin chalchiuhtla ipan ye nicmatia yectli ye nocuic yectli noxochiuh annicuihuan tepilhuan aya xonahuiacan a ayac onnemiz o in tlalticpac ayo. o an niquitquiz ye niaz yectli nocuic yectli noxochiuhui annicuihuan tepilhuan aya. o huayanco o nichocaya a huayanco o cahua y yahue nictzetzelo xochitl ay yo. mach nohuan tonyaz quennonamica o ah nicitquiz xochitl zan nicuicanitl huiya ma yo a xonahuiyacan to ya nemia ticaqui ye nocuic ahuaya.ay ca nichocaya nicuicanitl ya icha ahuicaloyan cuicatl ha Mictlan temohuiloya yectliya xochitl onca ya oncaa y yao ohuayan ca ya ilaca tziuhan ca na y yo. amo nequimilool amo neccuiltonol antepilhuan aychaa ohuicaloyan cuicatl
Oh i'm still laughing little man, and with each passing display of your, LOL, "heavyweight class" debating skills, it only increase the tears of laughter.
Now i'm ROFLMAO.
Keep em coming, ........ you continue to outdo yourself.
Did I surpass myself? Good.
LOL, absolutely little man, once again ROFLMAO.
More of your LOL "heavyweight class" debating skills?
Too bad you put the sanctity of your church ahead of the sexual abuse of innocent children, by not having the balls to address ratzingers edict that was issued under the watchful eye of your previous "saint???) pope.
A perfect example of just how small you are.
And everything you have written up until now, is a perfect example of just how gay you are. It would have been better to be a dictator, but, you choosed your career and you can do with your hole whatever you like. There must be a good market in Sweden, where they say that 50 % of men are married and the other 50% is gay. And I am quite sure that you do not belong to th married 50%.
Did you like this? Continue with your LOL and write again:
"A perfect example of just how small you are".
." LOL, absolutely little man, once again ROFLMAO."
"More of your LOL "heavyweight class" debating skills?"
If you lack clichés, I can provide you some, so that you do not look that stupid. sabinisaguinashparaguinikesiyeyu.
Absolutely rolling on the floor with laughter.
Please keep them coming little man, this just gets better and better with each post.
Keep digging, that hole just gets getting deeper and deeper, while you continue to get smaller and smaller.
"And everything you have written up until now, is a perfect example of just how gay you are. It would have been better to be a dictator, but, you choosed your career and you can do with your hole whatever you like. There must be a good market in Sweden, where they say that 50 % of men are married and the other 50% is gay. And I am quite sure that you do not belong to th married 50%."
Your such a flirt.
"Keep digging, that hole just gets getting deeper and deeper, while you continue to get smaller and smaller."
You mean your hole just gets getting deeper and deeper. Do not lend it that often BIG MAN, because I will continue getting smaller and smaller until I disappear, but you will keep on making your hole bigger and bigger until an army can penetrate in it.
Unfortunately, I will be so small, but so small, that I will not be able to laugh, laugh, laugh and laugh about a gay who wanted to be a man and became a lesbian. Your progenitress will be really proud by then.
This is too damn easy.
ROFLMAO
''It is better to be small thay gay.''
I think you're both OUIJA, although it is a disgrace to all the proud homosexual people I know.
However, you seem to be extremely preoccuiped with homosexuality and this is usually a sign of a strong personal interest in the field.
But good for you you are a Catholic. At least noone will chop your head off, you'll be just pitied and prayed for :) Definitely better than to be a gay Muslim!
I'm sure you did.
Did he mention this?
Who killed 80 million Hindus.
"Indian genocide - Killed 80 MILLION "
"Who took about 180 millions of African people as slaves and 88% of them died and was thrown in Atlantic ocean ? Muslims ?? "
Muslims were the suppliers.
"Muslims were major slave traders"
"Staggering Statistics on Muslims Killing Muslims"
"Jihadi Terrorism"
"Persecution of Non-Muslims"
Well done.
It seems that Allah gave Muhammad special permission to marry as many women as he desired or take them as slaves or concubines, just as in the pre-Islamic days of ignorance. In his own example and life, he seemed to perpetuate the pre-Islamic practices.
The Quran in Sura 33:50 grants Muhammad wide latitude in his marriages:
O Prophet, We have made lawful to you those of your wives, whose dowers you have paid, and those women who come into your possession out of the slave-girls granted by Allah, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and aunts, and of your maternal uncles and aunts, who have migrated with you, and the believing woman who gives herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet may desire her. This privilege is for you only, not for the other believers . . . . (Maududi vol. 4, p. 111, emphasis added).
For the historical and literary topical contexts of Sura 33, visit this webpage.
This lengthy verse says that besides those women whose dower Muhammad paid, he may marry slave-girls—that is, he may have sex with them. Maududi references three slave-girls taken during raids, and Mary the Copt, a gift from an Egyptian ruler. Muhammad had sex with her, and there does not seem to be a political need for this. Second, Muhammad may marry his first cousins, and Maududi cites a case in which this happened. Third, if a believing woman offers herself to Muhammad, and he desires her, then he may marry her (Maududi vol. 4, note 88).
Seems that old Mo took good care of his personal sexual desires by conveying this message from from his allah, right on down to his desire for a 9 year old child.