Published: 17 Apr 12 09:48 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/40304/20120417/
While the far-right Sweden Democrats initially distanced themselves from the deadly attacks by Anders Behring Breivik, currently on trial in Norway, the party hasn't undergone a major transformation, the AFP's Nina Larsson discovers.
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Europe made a terrible mistake when if abolished capital punishment
I can be abhorred by terrorism while agreeing with the general ideas of terrorists. Like in the Palestine example above. Terrorism is a method to achieve political goals. But its a terribly ineffective method. In sweden there does not exist even one organisation that has not utterly condemned ABBs actions. Neither centrists such as the SD nor the extreme right such as the SvP.
Of course the problem with a free palestine is that so very many people endorse terrorism as a legitimate method. Thats when the cause itself starts to be tainted by terrorism, when people refrain from unequivocally distance themselves from terrorism.
Ive seen plenty of good people here in sweden including immigrants including islamics criticizing swedens immigration policies.
there is a huge problem with some people who dont adapt and thats a fact no matter how loving and friendly everyone wants to be.
What is more stupid than being an ignorant right winger is actually denying the reason why some right wing parties have risen in europe for the past few years.
And when we can look at it from a logical way putting aside stupid fears of both denying a problem as well as exploding an adaptation problem into oblivion which is what breivik guy did, then we will be able to reorganize in a way that its more adaptable for both people who come from away as well as for those who already live here.
"But those parties are not based on the same befuddled ideas that Breivik share with the Swedish Democrats. "
As well as EVERY muslim association in Europe that would like to have it's own marriage rules, as well as it's own schools, it's own stores and it's own press. Organizations that demand removal of national flags with crosses, end to Christmas celebrations, glorifying "martyrs" etc... are in essence 2mm away from Al Qaida, even if they do not arrange explosions.
The connection of every organization that defines itself to islam to the same basic ideas of islamists is clear and visible.
Those who wonder why the popularity of SD did not change, should also wonder why the borders are not yet closed in the entire western world after 9/11, Madrid, Rome, 70's terror, bloody hunt of Iran after it's dissidents and all the crazy immigration issues that fell upon westerners with the multimillion muslim immigration.
Same laws are working here. You want for SD to dissappear? No problem. Close the borders for uneducated immigration. Throw away criminal non-citizens (including tax and social fraud). Allow unemployment for not longer than reasonable amount of time (shorter than the 7 years average now), demand Swedish tests passage within the first year.
All of the above done - SD will be forgotten.
But the general public has a habit of forgetting things like this and the controversial issue of ongoing mass immigration into Europe will remain a topic of conversation.
when are you people going to change? Stop your nonsensical propagations.
"the total number of Muslims in Europe in 2007 was about 53 million (7.2%), excluding Turkey. The total number of Muslims in the European Union in 2007 was about 16 million (3.2%)"
Not to mention about 10 million Muslims in the US.
If your nonsense were true, we would be in hell.
The truth needs no defending, that is why you people will always fight this uphill battle to no avail.
Based on Swedish logic, environmental groups are accountable for the evils of Ted Kaczynski.
How is it nonsense? Show me a muslim majority in any country in the world where minorities are not persecuted or at best treated as second class. Why wouldn't I want the West to remain muslim light? I don't want my daughter to be anywhere near Islam and how it treats women. You are the only one spouting nonsense. I wonder why? Sacrificing your western culture for those who don't respect it will not garner you points later when they breed us into a minority.
Thelocal panel has been recently enlightened by many new posters who share a lot with the guy shown in the picture above. Like a brainwashed suicide bomber in a Taliban camp these guys are unable to see facts and their similarities with fascists losers who appear in the history books!
Hitler's letter that was recently on show for public reads:
"The final conclusion is that Jews do not have German ethnicity. They live with their own feelings and their own beliefs however they have the same rights as we do in the society"
Today Jews should be replaced by Muslims! And we all know what happened to the man and his ilk who thought people with different feelings and different beliefs should NOT live among them!
"Today Jews should be replaced by Muslims!"
Oh, yeah iraniboy. SD are the nazis.
SD would like to cleanse their land of Jews. SD distributes "Mein Kampf" and "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" on government levels. SD is hanging sexual minorities on the streets. SD is attacking Jews on the streets because "all them Jews are the same". SD is killing those who do not agree with their understanding of god. SD has the worst reputation prisons in the world. SD is cutting off hands on town squares. SD is declaring raped women criminals. SD is dictating other nations to remove their flags and forget their holidays. SD is demanding to provide special education to those who possess SD views. SD is propagating violence in every other SD center. SD is gathering money that goes to terrorist organisations (sorry, freedom fighters). SD is attacking mainly civilians by suicide bombing, car bombing, axe attacks, beheading and other wonderful things. SD is accepting torture. SD is spreading solely dictatorships in the countries SD is taking charge of. SD has specific laws limiting the rights of non-SD. FInally, SD is causing millions of emigrants from their country that looks like a mass escape.
What is MOST funny is that majority of attacks on religious minorities is of course done by the mentioned above nazi SD! Do not forget their rape statistics...
Them evil SD. What a luck that we balance them SD with the wonderful multicultural guests from the Middle East and Africa that bring some love and understanding through the patient story of Mohammad and gracious, infidel loving Allah! What would we do without this river of love? Then SD would surely take over Europe...
Don't flatter yourself! SD is not even close to the bigotry and hatred you and your ilk possess. You're more of this kind:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16056399
Despite that, more than 90% of Swedes cannot even tolerate this level bigotry under their names! Otherwise people like you are actually arrested by police!
Cowboy- When are you going to tell us why a Sweden full of Muslims would be "hell?"
iraniboy. Go to jihadwatch.com go to religionofpeace.com there the amount of dead is piling up at the hand of someone who is not wearing swastikas. I am but only describe the current situation. You have never actually managed to catch me on a lie, since I am basing my stuff on things that actually happen, whereas you can use slogans and links from ongoing trials of some nazis in Russia, US and Germany.
What is amazing is that I am with you! I support your argument that nazis are bad. Nazis are indeed not good for this world and if all nazis would commit suicide, I would be happy.
Moreover, if all those who live in the way of nazis, behave like nazis, propagate nazi ideology, kill civilians like nazis, treat minorities like nazis and EXPAND like the nazis into other cultures would simply disappear, I would be ALSO happy. You get my drift? No need in horrors. No need in violence. JUST disappear.
Now, if your argument to that would be that nazis are bad (as usual), I would agree with you again. And again I would stress that those who think that nazis and ALIKE are material for disappearance are correct. I believe that nazis AND those who BEHAVE like nazis. are. the. SAME.
I hope that it is crystal clear for you now in spite of your reading and comprehending difficulties.
https://vimeo.com/27086831
Oh, I am sorry. It seems to be that Ahmadinejad, Turkish Harun Yahya and Bedri Baykam, universities of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Egypt, officials from Syria and Palestinian authority (Al Rantissi), Arab league ex-chairman Al Nahyan and Muslim Brotherhood leader, Mohammed Mahdi Akef join the nazis like Otto-Ernst Remer, Jurgen Graf, neo-nazi Bill White and right wing terrorist Manfred Roeder in holocaust denial.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#section_10
No surely I was mistaken previously, iraniboy. SD are much more nazis than the tolerant Islamic world.
Go to the link. Great company. Islamic leaders FINALLY reached the mental level of the scum of the western world.
If you really analyse the posts of the like of Rod Munch, Uncle, Calebian22, Jostein et al, what they are doing is supporting the views and by association actions of Brevik.
As Brevik has been allowed to spout his ideas, the media over the world has carried the story. The vast majority of comments in other media outlets have been carefully moderated to ensure the sort of hate filled posts allowed here do not get printed. TheLocal.se is the exception. as as usual promotes hate crimes in order to increase circulation.
If "analysing" would be done by The Local on constant basis, association between the views of Al Qaida and statements of Rick, iraniboy and cowboy would be established a long time a go.
So instead of arguing with the facts mentioned above, the usual state of moaning about racism is entered by Rickie. That is of course given that "muslim" is not a race and that muslim states, as well as muslim immigrants excel in racial attacks on the minorities in their vicinty way more than anyone else.
Even when one points out DIRECT association between the spiritual and political leaders of the muslim world and "old time" uniform wearing nazis, as well as "new time" head shaved ones, this one becomes "racist". Good methodology there, Rickie. Surely will convince many in your point of view.
Hate crime includes race, colour, religion and sexual persuasion.
You in your posts are promoting the same false and ill informed views that Breivik read and resulting in him killing 77 people, none of whom deserved to die.
I decry all acts of terrorism be it Islamic terrorism or right wing nut jobs. Breivik is a terrorist, yet you and the rest of your ilk want to make us believe that the reasons he did what he did was because of multiculturalism or the existence of Muslims in Europe.
Some terrorists are Muslim but not Muslims are terrorist FACT
Breivik is a terrorist but not all Norwegians are terrorists FACT
You continue to deny the truth because it does not suit your sick idea of fermenting hate against anybody who is not like you.
I suppose every sane forum has banned you long ago. Hopefully The Local will come to its senses and ban you along with your other hatemongering scum friends.
Rick: If you have looked around, you will see that the local is more moderate than the big Swedish forums. Most Swedish people do not know the real data. They do not know how many are coming, they do not know about the rising social problems, how many asylum seekers are cheaters or what will happen in the future. If they did, SD would get a lot more votes. That is also why the other parties do not want to debate SD.
The people who do find out the real data, will get pissed off . And you see a lot of them at Flashback or especially Fria Tider. In comparison, there are a lot more racist members on Swedish forums, compared to Norway or here. The reason you see more anti-immigration and racist people here, is that more people are finding out, and Sweden is turning more crazy.
I am excited to see you so vibrant and colourful. Makes my day.
What I fail to determine, is whether you read what I write and purposely modify my statements, or you simply do not understand in the darkness of your malfunctioning reality perspective. Perhaps both.
Point where I claimed that "all muslims are terrorists", you simpleton! QUOTE me.
I am ONLY saying that all muslim run states use racist methodologies to implement their policies. FACT. Religious minorities in Europe are exposed to violence in MAJORITY from the hands of muslims. FACT. Situation of females in all muslim states has somewhere to progress. FACT. Situation of sexual minorities in muslim communities and countries has slight improvement suggestions. FACT. Holocaust denial is coming from Nazis AND Muslim leaders/scholars/religious figures. FACT.
Not all Norwegians are Breivik, but Norway is not hanging gays, does not allow torture in prisons, does not organize demonstrations that burn consulates, does not promote Holocaust denial and Jew hatred in its education system. Norwegians do not raise sex crimes statistics upon their immigration. Norwegians do not demand from other countries to remove their symbols from public institutions. It does not artificially starve population in order to suppress rebellions. Norwegians do not target civilian population as means of expression of disagreement.
Now point out one thing that is incorrect. Point at the difference between religion that is followed to the letter and philosophy that is followed to the letter. By the way, a definition of hate crime includes "political affiliation", so your hatred towards Nazis should qualify you for a total ban as well and put you in the same pot with all us "racists".
So I propose that you work on gettin the normal colour back to your face, wipe the sweat and breathe…
And Rick, in your posts you are an unabashed supporter of unchecked ME/NA immigration to all European countries. Thus, you are promoting the staggering increases in rape, violent crime and murder that have come as a result of what you are promoting. How does it feel to have a hand in the deaths of people such as Elin Krantz? The old lady in the parking lot in Landskrona? How about the comatose, 61-year old man in Gbg? 80 to 100% of the rapes occurring in the Nordic countries these days? How badly does it suck for your own faulty logic to be turned against you?
Sweden Democrats wants to reduce immigration because they realise that a no country in the world can afford to be the "socialkontor" for everyone who wants a free ride and free housing for the rest of his/hers life. And mass immigration together with high unemployment breeds crime. SD are trying to save Sweden while media and the other political parties are trying to...well, I don't know what they are trying to. Maybe they don't even know it themselves.
And while you are calling everyone with a different view than yours for racists, have a think about this - Breivik killed 77 people. How many have died because of mass immigration (rapes, murders, arson, elderly who have died sooner than they would have after being assaulted and robbed, sick and wounded dying because hospitals are not getting the resources they need, resources that goes to pay for this immigration)? How many have died the world over in the name of islam the last 20 years?
when it comes to terrorists from middle east (muslims) , you easily name them as musimterrorists.
hypocrites,
Because if you have been following the story at all, Breivik didn't commit these murders in the name of Christianity or Jesus Christ. Where is the hypocrisy?
I dont agree with violence like that Brevic guy he's a monster but I don't want to watch my proud people just roll over and die. No other race is in such danger and more should be done to ensure we get to live on this earth for as long as the other races.
You want excessive censorship really? When was that ever the answer to anything?
Far be it from me to defend some of the more or less bigoted posters to whom you have referred, but...
"Some terrorists are Muslim but not Muslims are terrorist FACT
Breivik is a terrorist but not all Norwegians are terrorists FACT"
This is true. Also true that Breivik is a terrorist but not all disgruntled right wing The Local posters are mass killers, and in fact by the same rationale they bear as little connection to him as a disgruntled outspoken Muslim might bear to a terrorist.
And yet you say: 'what they are doing is supporting the views and by association actions of Brevik.'
How can you say this when you are at pains to point out elsewhere that one is not guilty by ideological association??
You're lucky political/philosophical view is not so protected by hate crime legislation or you would also have committed one in expressing exaggeratedly pejorative opinions about a group, using generalisation - the basis of all racism, sexism, and religious or sexual discrimination. In calling for the censorship of 'fascist' views the anti-fascist becomes the fascist.
I agree with you on one point though - The Local is, as you point out, exploiting all these ongoing conversations for massive entertainment value.
I personally enjoy reading the alternatively furious and sarcasm-laden exchanges that go on here between left and right. I appreciate the passion, paranoia and fiery rhetoric from the 'usual' anti-Islam good-ol'-boy posters you labelled killers earlier. (Some of whom, thankfully, are a bit more 'Christopher Hitchens' than Confederate lynch mob) But then I also enjoy reading the rabid liberal posters like yourself and cowboykodpiece, so full of outrage, and with an equally willful disregard for your enemy (and, seemingly, logic).
I trust The Local to censor anything truly gratuitous or threatening. Haven't seen anything of that nature in this particular comment section, even though it's certainly a sensitive topic. I'd say there's just a lot of ignorance - which is not ideal, but surely not criminal. Healthy debate can stand up to offensive views. The Norwegians are allowing Brievik to talk, and will even publish his words. People despise what he did but that society still allows him to air his views in public, knowing that the public can listen and make up their own minds. (The vast majority having done so the day he vilely murdered all those poor people.)
In addition Breivik was inspired by the Islamic terrorist group - Al Qaeda!!
I think it is perfectly within reason to say we don't want Islamic law in Europe.
Religion and state are separate - thank you!!
Never mind the bothersome details - of Shari'a - like Muslims have more rights than Muslims - there can be no equality unless you convert.... The truth is it is unacceptable to talk about the reality - that we are either to say is perfectly good or be called a racist!
Or do we move steadily towards the Saudi position and lock people up for questioning Islam!!
The trial is moving on and at least we are hearing what - he 'really' thought!!
And everyone is shocked!!
It's unspeakable.
you tube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dG0MKzkaYN0
He said that his actions were "based on goodness, not evil", and that he had acted to defend Norway against immigration and multiculturalism. Breivik was also questioned about his religious beliefs by a lawyer for the victims. He said he wanted to prevent the "de-Christianisation of Europe".
Good for you....now face the trauma and this has little to do with immigration or foreigners please listen carefully but sickening society stuffed with IT programmers and flunkies talking politics in bar!!! In Sweden every junkie or flunkie can attend university and then open his or her stupid mouth and speak rubbish,,,,no elitism of education no grandeur....of any sorts.....I am amazed how the word elite and heritage has become a taboo in these fantasy societies of Norway and Sweden yet the people are suffering every day!!