Published: 3 May 12 12:08 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/40608/20120503/
After her child suffered a serious injury in Sweden and no ambulance was sent, US-native and parent Rebecca Ahlfeldt was left feeling especially vulnerable.
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All 3 times they picked up, I told them what was going on, and they dispatched an ambulance right away. I was actually surprised how fast they showed up, within 5-10 minutes each time, compared with up to an hour back in San Francisco.
Maybe it's because I'm in Gothenburg, I don't know, but I'm just very thankful I haven't run into this situation. I don't even know what I'd do if they asked me 10 minutes worth of questions or refused an ambulance while I was freaking out.
But two things I can confirm, their health care system is much better then the one in the US, and that there does exist some bias or racism against non-Swedes, especially when dealing with people not face to face.
I am a bit surprised that the author did not switch to English, as everyone under 45 speaks it so well, when explaining the height of the bed ('head height', if she had forgotten the conversion to meters), and which would have been critical in assessing the risk of a neck or head injury, to assist in assessing the urgency of sending an ambulance.
The author might have deemed a switch to English as a move that might have lost time, but my own impression is that a switch to unaccented English is almost always helpful for a client within the Swedish 'service' industry (have only seen this out in restaurants and furniture shops, but presume that it may carry over even into medical services, although it should not).
Anyway this particular situation turns out to have been non-life threatening so the absence of an ambulance was disappointing, but not criminal negligence. But with the other headline grabbers of the past year, there should be some pressure to make changes to emergency response services, and any sensible politician would insist on at least some binding recommendations.
I am sure she would agree with you, if she was alive:
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/jill-22-dog-i-sitt-hem---fick-ingen-ambulans/
Have no idea about Sweden but I've got no complaints against the Canadian ambulance system. When my mother suffered a stroke they had her to the emergency department in less than half an hour. When I lived in Northern Ontario they would send serious emergencies out of the area by helicopter ASAP. Fortunately the government pays for it, or at least we do through our taxes.
I would have thought the Swedish ambulance system would be at least as good as ours since they are a much smaller country and have less distances to travel.
Switching to English might not have made it easier. I've never had to call an ambulance but have tried to call the police twice and it was horrible both times. The first time the police office was closed, no answer, no transfer to a call center, not even a machine to take a message. Found out later that there's a different local number you're supposed to call when they don't answer there.
The second time two older boys were beating a younger and much smaller boy and kept dragging him off his bike when he was trying to get away. Again, nobody answered at first, but after about two mins I was transferred to a call center in Stockholm. The first operator couldn't understand what I said in Swedish or English and it took 10 mins and being transferred 3 times before I got someone. My Swedish isn't perfect but that's all I speak with friends, the sambo's family, at work etc. and they understand me just fine. The police finally showed up over an hour later but by then the kids were gone. I'm really glad that someone wasn't having a heart attack or getting stabbed.
America has a lot of problems with it's medical system, but one thing you can always count on is the police, ambulance, fire trucks etc. showing up when you call. Living in multiple mid-sized cities (3-7 million) in the states, the longest I've ever known it to take to emergency personal to scene was about 10 minutes. There's no reason Sweden shouldn't be able to do the same.
Hiring emergency response operators who are not relatively fluent in English in Sweden is ridiculous, particularly given the high degree of English fluency/literacy in Sweden, and the emergency needs of tourists or newly arrived Swedes. Makes about as much sense as hiring an air traffic controller who can only speak Swahili.
In Canada they send out the police every time there is a 911 call, even if no one says anything on the phone, in case that person is unable to speak, or too afraid to speak because of an intruder in the home. A friend arrived home one day to find the police in his driveway, simply because his old style cordless phone began dialing numbers at random, including the sequence 9-1-1, when the batteries were low (a common flaw apparently).
The tragic death of a young woman who was not sent an ambulance when she was asking for one, literally 'because she was still able to speak' is one of the most idiotic examples of criminal negligence and incompetence that I've ever heard of. Sweden gets most things right, but the emergency response system, and the staffing of that system, is not one of them. In principle this system can be much improved, and the obvious question is whether or not any steps will be taken to improve it.
Sweden now has an inadequate defence, inefficient police, a scanty health care, trains that aren't working in the winter et cetera and so on. So, one can only exclaim "heja Moderaterna!!". :P
Use of the word "welfare" has become just an other political tool in the world of political liars.
Imagine this scenario - your child breaks his arm. You called an ambulance. At the same time, your neighbor's child goes into seizure and is turning blue. Both of you rush out and discover both have medical emergencies.
What do you do? Push your neighbor aside? No, that would be cold. Likely, you'd let that take priority.
Same same. S.omewhere in your city, people are dying or are more seriously injured. Likely, the operator is aware of their resources and must make that decision. Sure, sometimes they make the wrong decision, but it is likely never done to willingly withhold medical attention. Sometimes it is done due to poor training and yes, those need to be addressed.
However, reassess what you wrote. Don't criticize based purely on emotion. You obviously made it to the emergency room. Realize that an ambulance is not a state-funded hospital cab. It's meant to save lives.
(Oh, and when I was a kid, I was riding on the handlebars of a bike and my leg got caught in the front tire spokes. I fell off, messed up my ankle, and passed out. My parents immediately put me in the car and drove to the hospital. An ambulance would have been pointless and expensive.)
Also, a broken bone can be very painful for even an adult. At least taking a child by ambulance they can get pain reliefe en route to the hospital. 1, Who wants to see a child in any sort of pain, let alone severe? 2 How are parents supposed to concentrate on driving, with their child screaming in agony and they're worried about how bad the injury is. 3, most people do not have the medical knowledge to properly assess how serious injuries can be, and in a hightened emotional state, especialy if you have an injured child, may miss something vital to pass on to the phone operater.
I do not understand this system at all. In the UK an ambulance is always sent, because you just never knnow when it may be more serious than is first thought and it's better to be safe than sorry!
If the same accident would occur today I don't think I'd survive at all. Public services have been cut down too much. But hey, at least people now are having slightly lower taxes! :P
The problem with not calling an ambulance is that then prioritization is shifted from the call for an ambulance to having to go through this in the hospital emergency room. If you arrive by some other means than an ambulance, chances are they will first ask you if you have booked an appointment and try to send you home to come back another day. A friend of mine (he's Swedish BTW) had to sit and watch his wife die (also Swedish) in front of his very eyes while they waited more than 10 hours in the emergency room for the doctors to treat her heart attack. If you come in an ambulance they HAVE to prioritize.
My friend has since left Sweden, never to return. decades later he is still bitter and claims "that accursed country murdered my wife".
Pure and simple - it's a tool that extends life for the precious seconds that is required before required medical attention. It is ultimately quite selfish of people to assume otherwise.
It seems to me that the author was sent through triage correctly. Her son was NOT in a life and death situation and she eventually got herself to the hospital fine. Sure, you could argue the chances that it could have been worse, but in most broken arm scenarios the children survive. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
If this was a severe case in which the child's life was in danger and no ambulance is sent, then by all means, feel outrage. For a broken arm?
I name this molehill Mt Everest II.
13 years ago I was involved in a bad car accident, around midnight in the middle of nowhere, an ambulance was there in minutes.
So we've had nothing but positive experiences so far, thankfully.
On the language issue: Can anyone explain why the Vårdguiden (the official healthcare information publications) announces a special telephone number for speakers of Arabic, Serbo-Croation, Bosnian....
But no special number for speakers of English.
They would claim, I suppose, that Everyone Speaks English.
Well, they don't.
she might write about me next, " Inconsiderate driver uses both lanes of the roadway" why does swedish traffic law allow this??? sorry for the rant
And then maybe you will have to wait for hours to get the care.
Either way, everyone in Sweden assumes that you have a licence and a means of transportation in house or not too far shot (grandparents, friends etc).
Just keep that in mind. It is also very good to have the Jour number of your local hospital in order to call them when you are on your way in, so they can find a doc who is available to wait for you when you arrive.
After a while the ambulance would meet up with the police at a agreed location and they'd go in together as a convoy. Unfortunately that wasn't always timely and at least one person died while waiting.
Per the trib we had 10 shot yesterday and 3 stabbed so it might be a really fun weekend in the city because there are a limited number of ambulances to go around.
Worse part of visiting a hospital is that some use it as their doctor so the waiting rooms are packed. My last trip to the emergency room resulted in a 7 hour wait and I was "on the fast track" because I had good insurance. Course, it was new years eve.
MDs here in Sweden take a lot more time with patients and that is a very pleasant change. Regarding emergency services... I have been involved in four occassions where they were called and in each case the response was more than acceptable. It was strange to go through the 20 questions routine... yes, I just arrived at a friends apartment... there is no one here but a girl nearly naked and apparently unconcious on the floor... do you know her name and person number... no... could you look for it? Is she making any sounds? Can you move her? Can you wake her? Yell at her and see what happens, I'll wait... No response... okay, do you know if she has been drinking? Does she take any medicines? Is there anyone you can ask?
Finally, she did sent the ambulance and the girl who had overdosed was revived due to emergency intervention and injections and a trip to the hospital!
That model, socialism, is what is responsible for the lack of accountability and efficiency in public operations. Price controls lead to rationing, the effects of which you got to feel personally. This applies to gasoline, food, healthcare, or any other product or service.
I've spoken to several Russian immigrants who report having had to deal with much less bureaucracy and inefficiency in their homeland.
I do agree the SOS system needs to be updated and better training provided.
Forgive my "triage excuse" - please, call an ambulance because you need a ride. In the US, that would cost you 500-1000 dollars. Lucky in Sweden you only have to pay 20 bucks. Hell, next time I need a ride when the trains close, I'll lay on the sidewalk and pretend I'm having a heart attack. Cheaper than a cab.
Honestly, it's almost embarrassing this overt sense of entitlement coming from... Americans. Gasp!
Here's something you can do that may actually alter your sense of self. Go to a hospital emergency room when you're not sick and sit there. Just sit there and watch the doctors and nurses work. You might actually find some humility and realize that, hey, the center of the universe isn't you.
Didi you read any of the other stories where folks died over trying to convince someone to send them a friggin' ambulance, and failing? Why don't you take your 'center of the universe' speech and your little triage lecture to their families? I'd love to hear what they think about that.
Usually, Sweden's excellent taxi services will get you to a hospital faster than an ambulance anyway. Next time Rebecca, for a broken arm, pop him in a taxi. That way, that valuable ambulance will remain available for some poor old guy having a heart attack, and your son will get speedier treatment. Win, win!
rfmann, it's sad that I had to resort to "anti-Americanism" when I, too, am an American. However, this sense of entitlement is often and in this case, truly one that belongs to an American way of thinking about things.
From what I gather from this article, no one's life was in danger. People break bones quite often. Indulging a system that would offer rides simply on the want of one is a waste of money and inefficient.
And sure, those people that died, it's sad. How often, though, does this happen? What caused it? Was it because of poor operator training? An illness that would normally not require an ambulance? Lack of available ambulances? Figure that out first before you paint the entire system as broken due to proper triage.
Confidential to Swedejane: A better solution for you. The next time you stub your toe and need a ride to the hospital, find the nearest Somali and have them piggyback you to the emergency room. That way, they can work off some of their debt to you. It's a win-win!
Oh, and if you could be so kind to please pick those up... my eyes... they seemed to have rolled away.
Maybe you should live in other countries for a while to have the answer :) just think that an huge amount of literature and statistics show the nordic model as the best, there must be a reason, or all they wrong?
I just give you some points which make the difference:
- active labour policies (not existing in many other countries)
- universal health care
- strong family policies (not existing in other countries), possibility to reconcile work and family
- free and guarantee education, possibility to life-long learning.
- tax return....you pay taxes, you get services (this is absolutely not guarantee in other countries).
Of course, the fact that Sweden has one of the best welfare system doesn't mean that this is perfect! But instead of complaining as many do, why don't these people fight to improve it, instead of dismantling it?
Probably. Especially if the source of the "literature" and stats. is the S.C.B. or the U.N.
And there is a huge amount of literature and statistics showing that the French system is the best.
And a huge amount of lit and stats. showing the American (or Canadian or fill-in-the blank) system is best...
No worries there, some people actually believe in their own BS.
I go by one quote that works for all countries:
No country is as horrible as it is made from the outside, and as great as it is being presented from the inside.
Hej hej! :P
The advocates of the "triage" seem hellbent on arguing that seemingly non-lethal injuries dont required the ambulance. Then again we have to draw the line of where the injuries are considered non-lethal. Most people, who are not educated in basic medical knowledge, don't know the answer. Take for example someone who has broken a rib. The broken bone in the chest, if handled inappropriately, may puncture a lung, an artery, the heart, or stomach. In the latter cases the patients has high risks of dying. That's why we need trained medical personnel to handle these ambiguous symptoms.
I don't understand why some people are defending the somewhat defunct system. If there's been one death because of late ambulances, then something IS wrong. We don't need more deaths to know for sure. You can never rationalize a life-saving service with deaths, that is completely against its purpose. To Pojken and some others above, do you not agree that dying while denied ambulance is tragic? Do you even dare to bring your arguments to the families of those poor souls face to face, not having your identity protected by an online alias? Furthermore I sincerely hope you don't get denied ambulance when you most need it.
On the other hand, maybe she wanted someone who would at least drive the vehicle in a safe manner, and (unlike her) not almost kill any children on the way to where they were going (see her March entry).
Why oh why is this moron given space for her nonsensical and stupid "articles". I hope to God she's not getting paid for them!!
Let me ask you, what would you say to the parents of the child who just died because their ambulance didn't arrive in time die to you wanting a sage ride to the hospital for a minor injury.
One can have a warehouse of ambulances, but without proper triage assessment, they become meaningless in times of true need.
How insensitive of this mother to care so much for her child. So un-swedish of her. She should first consider the welfare of samhället (the state) and the collective needs of society in general.
Beyond the scope of this article, it seems the general rule in Swedish healthcare is IGNORE the PROBLEM. If you ignore a problem long enough, it (ie he or she or more specifically YOU) eventually "goes away".
Our bodies are miraculous machines and have a great capacity for selfhealing. Yet there are generally treatments which accelerate/improve this process and reduce physical/mental discomfort. It's far cheaper though for the State to ignore you and let your body slowly and painfully heal as best it can. Ignore the problem. Save money.
But even w/ time and suffering, some people don't heal. Some illnesses grow worse and what was initially a small easily treatable disturbance mutates into fullblown physiological chaos. Even at this stage many Swedish doctors will still heed the company line, ignore ignore ignore.
If you need emergency care often enough you may eventually be allowed to begin the (up to) quarter-year wait for any individual specialist. (No, you can't wait simultaneously for multiple doctors.) W/ serially underfunded healthcare there's a shortage of pathologists, specialists doctors/nurses, medical equipment, etc. And so some people die waiting. Ignore the problem. Save money.
You may finally even get to a doctor who is competent/caring. But they too are stuck in the system. They're stuck w/ deadweight coworkers, dated/restrictive guidelines and retro pharmaceuticals. What's to be done? Nothing. Ignore the problem. Save money.
And even if you somehow make it through all this or go outside the State for care, FK has its own "doctors" whose opinions trump those of all other doctors. So your tax money actually goes to pay the salary of multiple layers of bureaucracy whose job it is to IGNORE and DENY you life/life-quality dependant services.
Tax payers (ie. living breathing beloved humans) are not well-served by this system. The system (and us by extension) has been rationed to death. Familjeläkare especially often act more like doormen/bouncers than doctors. Where are the healers? To some degree the Swedish church has spoken out against the system's inhumanity. Förenings advocate for patients and are an incredible source of support/information and often collaborate as well w/ the few caring doctors, researchers, lawyers.
Individuals have little-to-no control over their own lives, their own treatment. State employees decide who lives/dies. Jante healthcare means you are nothing. Only the herd is of value. A system that pathologically boasts of its fairness, instead has frightening, unchecked power which it wields most unfairly.
Before, the State actively sterilized "problem" populations. Even NAZIs actively killed their "problem" blue-eyed sick. Today's socialized state handles the problem sick more passively, by actively ignoring them. Ignore the problem, save money. Ignore the problem, it (i.e. you the budget item) goes away.
In the north of the country, it depends on how many ambulances there are, and how many emergencies there are at that particular moment.
Swedish societal norms have their pluses: it's a peaceful country but when someone's injured, I've seen firsthand how Swedes will doubt and downplay the situation, pretend to be doctors instead of actually helping the person injured! WHEN IT'S A NECESSITY FOR AN INJURED PERSON TO MAKE A FUSS JUST TO GET HELP, something's seriously wrong.
I don't know if it's a lack of compassion, or a lack of understanding anything outside of yourself, but it's definitely lacking here. It sickens me to think about it and hear more and more stories.
In many ways Sweden is cold.
Anyway, how does she know that there weren't greater emergencies elsewhere and the ambulance was sent to greater priority? The fact that her son was making alot of noise, actually means it's less serious, if he was silent, unconcious, drowsy then it's more concerning. Having broken my arm/collar bone twice myself and chopped the tip of finger off, all before the age of 11 I speak from experience, in all cases I went to hospital under my own steam / parents car.
If not sending an ambulance won't make you injury worse, why use a resource. Save yourself time and just head straight for hospital. Healthcare is privilege that much of the world lacks, why waste it. A bit of pain, will have been forgot about, by the time her fingers reached the keyboard, plus pain is the reward for doing something daft or dangerous, we learn from it, I did.
That being said it IS more likely to happen in Sweden for obvious reasons. When ambulances bring in lots of money they want to pick up as many people as possible. When this is budgeted they'll stick to a guideline. For example in the article's example I can see why she was turned down. If you break your arm with someone else present you are perfectly able to get into the hospital yourself. When I dislocated my knee I needed ambulance assistance and they came straight away. When I broke my wrist I got driven to the hospital instead - it wouldn't have occurred to me to call an ambulance.
Professional medical förenings, patient advocacy förenings, personal blogs, and even some lawyers and the Swedish church do a lot to identify weaknesses in the system and/or advocate for patients' rights and proper care. The continuing themes, thoughout these sources are budget cuts / rationing and apathy of medical workers.
Furthermore, it's very mean to keep berating the author over her concern for her son's emergency, especially after so many have pointed out that bad breaks can be life-threatening. As someone earlier wrote, such situations should be judged by compassionate experienced medical personnel.
If the American right jumps on these stories, good for them. Such stories need exposure. (And as the American right is far from perfect, they're fair game to be criticized as well.) Identifying weaknesses and actively correcting those weaknesses is how humanity grows.
It's revolting that non-Swedes get slammed by non-Swedes, especially, for identifying grave errors in the system. Numerous Swedes in Swedish are advocating for patient rights. They are not happy with the system's status quo. For non-Swedes and/or newcomers to Sweden to uncritically parrot state propoganda is a grave disservice to the many sick and elderly whose voices are burried by an authoritarian medical state.
Far too often people love state-peddled ideas more than they love actual, living, breathing human beings.
@libertarianism, Right. It is always the same poster (#56) who foams at the mouth if anyone points out that Sweden is not paradise. Maybe Sweden is paradise, compared to Britain.
Non-Swedes do Sweden a service in advocating for patients' rights.
Those whining love it or leave it are not are not. And, yes, it is revolting.
I have no idea on the US, but compared to the UK, I would say Sweden is better for medical services, but everyone experience differs, because we all live in different parts of Sweden, we do all live here don't we? ;)
This is not an isolated incident. Search the Local:
"Report slams denied ambulance call death" (27 Mar 12)
"Heart attack victim dies after ambulance denied" (14 Mar 12).
...and many more stories in the Swedish press, which, at long last, is starting to cover the shoddy healthcare system.
If you suspect a fracture [or break], you should go to the nearest hospital or emergency room. If it is a dangerous fracture [or break] you should ring 112 for an ambulance. // You can also get 24-hour medical advice from a nurse at 08-320 100 or in Arabic 08-528 528 38. (No other languages were named. The info itself was in Swedish.)
www.vardguiden.se/Sjukdomar-och-rad/Omraden/Sjukdomar-och-besvar/Frakturer-hos-barn/
And out of curiosity, a U.S. site says as well to call an ambulance for a broken bone * if *: The person is seriously injured. You suspect an injury to the person's head, neck, or back. Bone is sticking out of the skin. Bleeding doesn't stop after several minutes of firm pressure. Blood spurts from the wound.
http://firstaid.webmd.com/broken-arm-treatment
Beyond this, since Sweden's child services can have sticky fingers, it's probably good that this mother took the safest measures to secure help for her child's injury.
Perhaps we all should take a first-aid course(s) to better ensure our own safety and to better argue for our rights to access to care... Just a thought.
That's just sad. :(
Canadian services take things seriously. We thought someone tried to break in or something, we heard a loud knock at the door no one uses in the middle of the night. We called the police just to look around the neighbourhood, they never found everyone, but they responded quickly, 5-10 minutes for something which might not be a big deal. We were impressed. If this were Sweden, I'd bet it would take maybe an hour or so.
where have I, or anyone, suggested that healthcare in the U.S. is free?
What is true is that that those without means or insurance receive high-quality treatment in local clinics and hospital ERs without having to pay a cent.
To believe that everyone gets "equal treatment" in Se. is as naive as believing that healthcare is free in Sweden.
The quality of care in Se. depends on where you live, your level of education, your age, your sex, your class, your accent and whether or not you are a pure Swede or what they call "new Swede."
There is in Sweden a parallel, but tacit, triage: At the bottom are immigrant women and the elderly. At the top are Swedish men from 25-35.
Google this: "No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn."
The number of hospital beds are only a third of what they were in the 1970s (and mental healthcare now barely exists). Hospital patients are left in corridors and coat vestibules, with no ability to contact staff. The author herself has experienced this several times, has been hoarse from screaming for help. Patients were everywhere, total chaos. The staff did the best they could, but it was too much.
No other country has such long waiting lists where people die waiting for surgery. No other country in the OECD has so few hospital beds, 2.6 per 1000 residents, compared to 4.6 per 1000 for other OECD lands. Last week two elderly people died, lying in a hallway. When complications happened, no one was close. No one checked on them regularly. The staff was found to be poorly trained.
www.newsmill.se/node/29105
(Compare to some senior homes where favorite, simple, basic comfort foods such as coffee and butter have been rationed.)
http://starlounge.se.msn.com/photopage.aspx?cp-documentid=161338291#image=1