Robyn slams minister over 'racist' cake cutting

Seriously? What the hell kind of cake is that. That reminds of of the old school racist cartoons that used to play back in the US. Waaaay behind times.

Wow, Robyn has woken up! Obviously slow on the draw, but unfortunately not slow enough. She ought to consider just sticking to music.

The way to be heard is speak up, the way to be appreciated is shut up.

@johan rebel - don't be daft, Robyn hasn't "just woken up" and isn't being "slow on the draw". This has come from a magazine interview, in which she was presumably asked what she thought about the incident, or where the subject came up in discussion. And now The Local are reporting on this. Robyn hasn't suddenly called a press conference to give her views on an event that took place weeks ago. "The way to be appreciated is [to] shut up", you say? Hmmm, perhaps you should take your own advice...

So predictable. In the PC sweepstakes race trumps gender every time.

Implicity defend hacking at little girls private parts with rusty razor blades because the person who tried to call attention to the issue wasn't PC enough...

I don't care who gets offended - hacking at little girls private parts with rusty razor blades is a primitive, savage, evil and indefensible practice and criticising the messenger makes you a party to it. If you culture thinks it a good thing to do and you support it (through action or inaction) then you're a primitive savage. End of debate.

On the other hand, the day I take a pop-singer's political pronouncements seriously is the day I wish to be euthanized.

"Robyn" is the authentic voice of the not to smart, but thoroughly indoctrinated and conformist Swede.

As I think has already been pointed out, this cake was the work of a black artist expressing his opposition to female circumcision in his own way, using the same style and design cues he always does.

Much of the initial outrage at this story was prompted by its misrepresentation here at the Local and then elsewhere. People saw the static photo and recoiled in horror declaring the 'cake's face' to be a 'crude racist stereotype'. Unfortunately these people were unaware that the face in fact belonged to the artist himself, and was himself for real, in the flesh.

Oh dear.

Yes he had painted a big red line around his mouth and big white teeth but then he always does, that's his style.

But that won't register with the likes of 'Robyn', who like so many Swedes has a knee jerk intolerance of any expression whether it be in art, written, verbal or otherwise, which goes against the prevailing view of the nation, as handed down to them (although they seem unaware of the significance of this) by the state and the State media.

Or to put it another way, Robyn is proof that the average non thinking Swede hasn't moved on one jot from Sweden's authoritarian past, the same past which flirted equally with Nazi Germany, and then Soviet Russia, and had Europe's largest and most vicious Eugenics program.

The Swedes, they simply don't get freedom of the individual, which makes them a truly scary bunch.

"We are a multicultural country now"

Well if a pop star says it, it must be true! I only wonder, does this mean people are openly expressing the failure of Sweden's integration policy and are instead shamefully trying to "patch things up" by following the United States and perhaps more appropriately Canada in creating a culture that defines itself on the existence of multiple other cultures?

It might be relatively smooth sailing, especially in immigrant-countries like Canada and the United States right now but if a country like Sweden is going to have citizens going on multiple generations identifying themselves as something other than "Swedes" both ethnically and culturally, you're looking at digging yourself into a hole. Perhaps people should remember what happened in Former Yugoslavia before they pretend to elevate themselves on the myth of progress and its chronological snobbery. Just a thought...

Wow Robyn is really on top of the news isn't she?

lol.. Good Morning Robyn!

Stick to singing you bimbo. The cake was made by a black person and there's no point trying to stir up trouble. The minister wasn't trying to be racist. But thanks for pointing out the trouble with Sweden - "We are a multicultural country now"

Too bad she doesn't care as much about little girls getting their clitorises chopped off as much as she does about political correctness....

Oh, it's Sweden I forgot. Political correctness is the state religion.

planet.sweden wrote:

''As I think has already been pointed out, this cake was the work of a black artist expressing his opposition to female circumcision in his own way, using the same style and design cues he always does.''

Amen.

I wonder why the heck the cake has offended Robyn more than the female circumcision itself? Or is suffering of girls the price we have to pay for 'multiculturalism' maybe? Not worth it if you ask me... .

Ny Dag,

I don't want to dig into you but,your comment leaves me a bit cold.

Perhaps you were trying to be whitty and your point just got past me.

Sweden has it's integration problems,to be sure but,anyone who thinks it's a bad idea is welcome to pack their bags and visit Ukrane/Poland for the weekend or just go back to your homeland!

There's a small but lovely groupof fans(real apes) looking for some chanting buddies for the football play-offs this weekend.

Feel free to file for residency there while youre at it!

BTW,I've visited both countries and had wonderful experiences!

Well done Makode linde for bringing attention to this brutal, violent assault on young girls, who because of this violent assault, will never be able to enjoy mother natures wonderful gift of sexual pleasure.

It always the women and children who suffer under the oppression of male dominated ignorant manmade mythologies, particularly the one whose adherents participate in this savage inhumanity.

Political correctness is defined as the act of trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.

You know if you really don´t understand the message this "black" guy was trying to make.. then dressing it up to sound politically correct isn´t "cool" it´s just ignorant. Get back to the point.

As for Robyn losing faith in the culture minister... well that must hurt from her New York apartment or wherever in America she resides now.

Im happy this was done by a non-white otherwise the PC brigade would be having a field day.

And The Local keeps on projecting this tasteless "cake" for people to see yet one more time... New stories come and go yet the cake stays. I noticed with a degree of suspicion how long it stayed. I guess The Local enjoys the piece of so called artwork.

I still wonder why the cake is made so ugly and over weight...

If you are a blonde, acting out stereotypes is the last thing you want to do.

I fully understand the message,just wish he had chosen a different vehicle. Having met him years ago and liked him as a person,I trully struggled with what I would say to him. Answer:nothing.Hey,he's an artist. The culture minister?As an appointed official,she clearly should have thought a bit more before she participated in the way she did. Simply,I'm not obligated in any way to purchace his artwork but I am obligated to pay a dear price for this minister with my taxes,that bothers me ! Art is as old as civilization and is supossed to stir up emotion, clearly it has for me.

There must be a virus in the Western world affecting "rock stars".

They say the stupidest thing.

If accepting female mutilation as a part of multiculturalism, then some Swedes who have a backbone should stand up but no one does.

ALL genital mutilation shoud be irraticated in all parts of the world!

Jews brought it to the US and pushed it on 3 -4 generatons of non jewish children as a form of good medicine,nice profit for them.

"ALL genital mutilation shoud be irraticated in all parts of the world!"

I agree, but male circumcision is not even in the same ballpark as FGM, not even close as far as the damage and effect it has on the future of these children.

I'm 67, not jewish, i was circumcised, and my sex life was not affected in the least because of it.

Back in the day it was considered to be a healthy choice for cleanliness, now of course we know better.

As far as jews making a "nice profit" off of it, how so?

The #13,

Do not be deceived by Makode linde's words!

Look at Makode linde's face, he is laughing and enjoying himself like a Horse, the same watch other pictures of him from before and see how he was getting pleasure when the Minister was pushing the fork deep down in side the vagina of the cake!?

He is not worried for thoes kind of girls you are talking about.

He is one of those losers in lack of subject to introduce.

He is one of those losers who can only pick on his racial issue, so by showing his misery, hopes to get rewards of a racist society.

@bcterry & EmployedProfessional

"

Back in the day it was considered to be a healthy choice for cleanliness, now of course we know better."

Male circumcision is different from FGM and is still a healthy and recommended practice.

IT HAS BEEN SHOWN TO REDUCE THE RISK OF HIV TRANSMISSION I MALES. And yes, it does not have the same negative consiquences in males asFGM has on females.

Robyn lives outside of Sweden and she understands that racism only works in sweden. Outside of sweden her carrier could die a natural death, dat is if she does not go to prison. Many clueless pple on dis forum does not see racim as a bad thing.

In Sweden every tiny little bit of act that can be interpreted as racist, is. Not only are things _interpreted_ as racism but also _turned into_ racism. Then the imaginary racist "crime" is looked upon as almost worse than murder, making a mockery of those who really are victims of actual racism.

Political correctness in a nutshell.

I object to all these comments. Robyn is not just another mindless, blond, untalented, Swedish bimbo singer seeking to gain a little publicity and sell a few songs by commenting on an issue of little relevance created by a mindless, blond, untalented, Swedish bimbo politician. She has a mind. Besides, cakes are a very important part of Swedish culture as is promoting Swedish multiculturalism.

I agree with Robyn's well-timed comments. Us Robyns/Robins have to stick togethor.

In tomorrow's news, Carola will give us her thoughts on the Syrian crisis. can't wait!

That cake makes me cringe and the whole incident is an embarrassement.

@ G Kin ,

Thank for the info, i didn't realize that was a problem.

@ indeedmagnifier ,

"He is not worried for thoes kind of girls you are talking about."

How in the hell do you know that?

"He is one of those losers in lack of subject to introduce.

He is one of those losers who can only pick on his racial issue, so by showing his misery, hopes to get rewards of a racist society. "

He's a black man for christ's sake, and you believe he is racist against blacks?

Ridiculous.

@Once again, how are jews making a nice profit on circumcision?

@bcterry. Your insistense on he is black shows u have a problem. Does that mean his behaviour should be condoned because he is black. What a convnience. Matonde said he uses his art to make joke of racial prejudice in sweden. U did not report that at all. All U keep on saying is he is black. By the way, what he did only draw attention to prejudice in sweden. According to CNN, BBC, ABC, sky and others. Thank God they have white people over there. Robyn and all these enligthened pple think it is wrong. You will go to prison if u try this abroad. Ask Robyn, she will tell u more.

" Your insistense on he is black shows u have a problem."

I'm not insisting he's black, ........ HE'S BLACK!

Your problem, not mine.

Another problem of yours, is you have no other comment on this sickness other than trying to turn this into a phoney racist issue, and not a word on FGM.

Speaks volumes on where you are coming from.

"Does that mean his behavior should be condoned because he is black."

His behavior in this instance is right on point.

" By the way, what he did only draw attention to prejudice in sweden. According to CNN, BBC, ABC, sky and others. "

Bullsxxx, they all simply reported the facts, and presented BOTH sides of the article.

And they ALL brought attention to the sick violent inhumanity of FGM to their readers, many of who were not aware of this.

Well done CNN, BBC, ABC and Linde.

bcterry& G Kin

I was tought early to keep it in my pants or wear a condom. Better yet,develop the propensity to have a proper relationship.

BTW,I wasn't making a comparison,just a general statement.

Also, select parts of the US embraced circumsission on doctor's recommendations published in medical journals,magazines and anywhere else they could grab an ear.

Yes a lot of money was made from this largely Jewish practice.

Hey,it's just a fact.

"Also, select parts of the US embraced circumsission on doctor's recommendations published in medical journals,magazines and anywhere else they could grab an ear."

You said,

" Jews brought it to the US and pushed it on 3 -4 generatons of non jewish children as a form of good medicine,nice profit for them. "

Now once again, SPECIFICALLY, , how did JEWS make a nice prophet from it?

By being the physicians who promoted administed the circumsisions!

No medical proceedures are free in the states.

Bullsxxx, they all simply reported the facts, and presented BOTH sides of the article.

@bcterry. I have googles Matonde's response the scenenaro he caused and some of the highlights on CNN. Nothing was mentioned FGM but about the minister, her apolgy and racism. Fgm was only given as her excuse which she later rejected. I will advise u to go to place like Uk and make comments like this. You only talk to yourself but without facts. t. Dat is y i will not respond to u again.

@ prince T,

I see you still have absolutely nothing to say about this sick, violent, inhumane muslim practice of FGM on innocent female CHILDREN!!!

Surprise, surprise.

"Dat is y i will not respond to u again. "

Thank you, ..... thank you, ........ thank you.

While Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth is certainly naive when it comes to art (for e.g. she said a while back graffitti was 'not art'), and I have no wish to defend her, it should be pointed out that Makode Linde's work is provocative for its own sake, doing very little for anyone besides producing a mediatic spectacle and thereby promoting himself. I cannot see that this 'artistic' intervention does anything whatsoever to help those women who are circumcised... its more of a gratuitous spectacle that entrenches stereotypes than it does challenge them.

Well,the artist got a shot of major publicity and

the minister proved that she's as slow as a boiled potato.

Meanwhile....

Here we are doing all we can,fanning the small flame that this story has become well over 2 months later.

@ leontan

What do you expect Linde to do instead? Show up with a pair of bleeding girls in his arms and a piece of draft anti-FGM legislation clenched between his teeth at the UN assembly in NYC?

Robyn (whose name includes the rare letter combination 'yn', which also appears, ironically, in the word 'gynocologist'), has made a statement that suggests that her reasoning ability has decayed to the paper-thin intellect of a pop-star, able to comprehend only trival one-second-long cookie-cutter images of good and bad that

appear in music videos.

She now stands along with the other 4 female mysoginists that The Local has managed to find and publish (Victoria Kawesa, Viktorija Kalonaityte, Ellen Belmore,

and Carmen Price), who are perversely and manically intent on diverting the discussion away from FGM and toward racism, even though it is their own half of the human race that is horrifically and systematically victimized by FGM in the hundreds of thousands every year.

In a normal democracy like the UK, the press attention that resulted from Linde's art led a member of parliment to get up and reassure the entire population that people who are guilty of administering FGM will be proscuted to the full extend of British law, which means 14 years in prison (far longer than most murderers get in Sweden). Any member of a government ministry in Europe who has a conscience would or should have been prompted by the cake art furor to ascertain whether enough is being done in their own home country to erradicate FGM crimes, and also if more could be done to halt FGM in places where their government participates in humanitarian or development work.

Conversely a nation like Sweden can so intensely politically correct that it seeks to condemn an unpleasant representation of FGM, and to re-classify this as racist,

rather than engage in the important dialogue of asking itself if all reasonable steps are being undertaken to eliminate FGM at home and in any nation where Sweden has any influence. Polical correctness is supposed to protect people, and yet in this case it risks prolonging the disgusting act of FGM on young girls for decades.

Your post is petty and counterproductive, and supports the interests of those who are in favour of FGM.

Dear Makode Linde ,

since you are on a holy mission to bring out and expose hidden evil so that it can be destroyed , when are you going to invite the wonderful Minister Of Culture to cut a bloody cake of a young blond swede hanging on a rope ? Surely , you must know that suicide is of those "hidden vices" in Swedish society .

Am I wrong ?

since you are on a holy mission to bring out and expose hidden evil so that it can be destroyed , when are you going to invite the wonderful Minister Of Culture to cut a bloody cake of a young blond swede hanging on a rope ? Surely , you must know that suicide is of those "hidden vices" in Swedish society ."

You are seriously attempting to equivocate the problem of those who take their own lives, with the cruel, violent, inhumane sickness of FGM by those who perpetrate it on innocent female CHILDREN?

@ Jes

You are not wrong, but you appear to be misguided.

First of all, Makode is entitled to do whatever he feels is relevant and interesting to him and to society with his artwork, and this may or may not address a hidden vice that happens to be relevant to you.

And secondly, no one approaches a hanging victim with a knife and cuts them up in real life. FGM, on the other hand, is a crime that victimizes by the act of cutting itself. In your example, the violence would be gratuitous (but there may still be some sort of artistic narrative for it), whereas in FGM the cutting is central to the horror of the act.

@Reason abd Realism, you may not believe it , but there are sane humans who think that no one is "entittled" to insult victims of the "horror of the act cutting". The same reason that makes Swedes not publically talk about suicide should be the same reason why a Minister should never participate in a cake -cutting event , where a black woman is depicted as an ugly and bloody piece of funny art.

@bcterry , If you talked to those who commit suicide , they might say that they too ," have the right to end their own lives" . If you knew anything about the subject you offer to comment on , you would know that very few of the cut women consider themselves as "victims of " a cruel , violent inhumane sicknes of FMG " .

Do you really , really really think that a woman in Mali will look at this cake and think that they are depicted in a "humane" and civilized way ?

@bcterry , If you talked to those who commit suicide , they might say that they too ," have the right to end their own lives" . If you knew anything about the subject you offer to comment on , you would know that very few of the cut women consider themselves as "victims of " a cruel , violent inhumane sicknes of FMG " .

How do you know they don't consider themselves as victims?

Tell me, where do muslim women go to complain about this muslim practice, or to complain about the way they are treated in any way?

Tell us what they have to look forward to if they stand up and complain?

Also, tell us why you support it.

@ Jes

First of all, the art is not hilarious for a mature adult viewer, rather it causes mainly nervous laughter because it is a provocative and shocking image that most of us are emotionally unprepared to deal with, particularly in this non-violent society where even spanking is outlawed. After the shock and nervous laughter wears off, adult viewers will recognize this as a call to action against FGM.

About the woman in Mali who is insulted by this cake art. Firstly and frankly we need to distinguish two types of women who might be insulted. Unfortunately FGM is a firmly established cultural practice, and in some locations it continues to be inflicted by some mothers on their own daughters, generation after generation. This type of woman in Mali deserves more than a dose of embarassement, she deserves 14 years in prison.

The 2nd type of woman who may be unhappy about her FGM may suffer some degree of embarassement when seeing the cake art, even though her FGM is obviously not her fault, and even though her FGM is a hidden mutilation, not visible to others.

But more importantly, there is an almost universal desire on the parts of victims of senseless violent crime, to do whatever they can so that it never happens again to any other innocent victims. This is why the parents of kids killed in school shootings spend years lobbying for changes to gun laws, and achieve a great sense of purpose in that.

This 2nd type of woman would probably feel this generosity also, and accept that attention drawn to the crime of FGM in the West, even if delivered with a controversial way, may help to eliminate it altogether one day, particularly if development/investment in her community requires local officials to participate

in the elimination of FGM in Mali. She would understand that those in the greatest need are the girls who still have a chance of living a normal life.

The international success of the cake artwork is due precisely because it is so arresting and provocative. A charcoal sketch of a woman with an unhappy face

would have led to absolutely nothing. The artist, of African descent, has stated that his art is not racist, and that the minister who cut the cake at his request

is not racist, and still people are trying to kill these two messengers and ignore the message.

Linde has suceeded in rasing awareness about FGM like no other artist ever has. Focus should now be on the response of international governments to FGM, and not on creating unnecessary distractions with accusations of racism.

@bcterry , I was right ; you don`t know much about this subject . Yes , indeed it is true that in Mali , Somalia , Egypt , Yemen and other places , t "cutting" is considered an honourable tradition .

Of course , there are many women who think that this is a horrible tradition . It is for that reason that the people who are trying to stop FGM have chosen education instead of ´head-on confrontation.

I repeat that publishing insutling images is a counter-productive method if one is truely interested in helping to stamp out FGM. I don`t think that I need to point out to you that you are NEVER going to help the victim of FGM in Somalia by cutting a silly cake in Stockholm . It does not work that way .

Do I "support it" ? Frankly , you make me laugh a little . Do you think that a doctor "supports" breast cancer if he/she tells a patient`s family that indulging in daft theatricals is not an effective treatment of cancer ?

@Reason abd Realism , you are still making the same point : that because Linde is half African and an artist , he must know how all African women feel . That if Linde concludes that neither his cake or the wonderful Minister who cut it are racist , we must all accept that and go home .

I totally disagree . I happen to think that there is always something wrong with having some fun out of a tragedy.

Please look at that photo above -------------

Do you have any information on where these educational programs to eradicate this problem are taking place, and how they are being implicated?

Those who have migrated to the west, who have access to All sorts of education on the subject, are still assaulting their children despite of it.

Most Western countries have had to make it illegal, and it still does not stop them.

Their narcissistic self proclaimed "prophet" justified it, and he also claimed himself to be, "the most beautiful pattern of conduct" and "example" for mankind to follow! (Qur'an 33:21), as well as the "exalted standard of character" (Qur'an 68:4)., so as they worship the ground he walked on, .....................................

Book 41, Number 5251:Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah

"…When you circumcise then do not cut severely, since that is better for her and more pleasing to the husband." (Reported by Abu Dawud and Al-Baihaqee and declared Hasan by Shaikh Al-Albani)…"

Also:

"Better for the woman and more pleasing for the husband" and that it is "Better of the face and more pleasing to the husband." (Reported by Al-Baihaqee)

"Do I "support it" ? Frankly , you make me laugh a little . Do you think that a doctor "supports" breast cancer if he/she tells a patient`s family that indulging in daft theatricals is not an effective treatment of cancer ? "

Frankly, your comparisons make me do the same.

Breast cancer is not the result of an assault.

If you don't support it, then simply tell us why, or is there some reason you do not wish to state your position, one way or the other?

Yes , I do have a lot of information on this subject and so should you before you write so many paragraphs . As I said , to many FGM is a custom .

Most traditions and customs are mere perceptions Anyone who has studied human behavior will tell you that it takes time to alter some well entrenched human perceptions .

In Europe and USA , we are finding that a lot of well informed parents , ( especially mothers ) are now helping and paying for their children`s plastic surgery . Why ? because some of these parents act under the perception that looks is the most important selling point in todays world .

In Europe and USA , we find parents that provide tobacco products and alchohol to their under-age children , inspite of the fact that the parents are aware that these things are dangerous to the still growing brain of their child .

I could go on and on pointing out to you that child abuse happens in many forrms and even in Minister Linda Andelsohn Liljeroth`s world .If you asked her , she would probably stop at reciting what we all already know : it is difficult to controll everybody

Of course one can quote the koran to make a cheap point . Still , the fact is that the majority of muslims don`t support , recommend let alone practice FGM

. '*********

If you must know , I am strictly opposed to FGM -in all its forms . I think that is a primitive and brutal tradition . But I am of the opinion that in order to cure a desease , you have to understand and diagonise it without any prejudiced emotions .

About FGM , I would say that it is both a phyiscal and psychological issue. The west is trying to cure the physical aspects of it by criminalizing it . Unfortunately , they ignore the the other part , which is why the one that have immigrated to western countries still do it .

( we may continue the discussion tomorrow if you wish ))

Enjoy the football ....

@ Jes

My point is simply this: why are you so outraged over the hypothetical embarassement of that woman in Mali, who might in fact WELCOME

increased international dialogue and debate on ways to end FGM everywhere thanks to a piece of artwork that catapulted a dormant topic into the spotlight?

To her a bit of private embarassment is probably a welcome price to pay in exchange for the chance to give hundreds of thousands of young girls a healthy and normal life. Doctors have reported that FGM rates are increasing in some hospitals in Africa after a period where many hospitals were refusing to perform this service, so the battle against FGM is far from over, and we are losing ground in some places.

Will your conscience be clean if that woman in Mali is no longer embarassed, but hundreds of thousands of young girls are mutilated for life because people did

not have the backbone to renew a discussion on a difficult topic, and find new and better ways to halt it?

This is like your weak point of view on suicide, namely that it is basically embarassing and so no one, especially a minister, should ever discuss it.

That is not a recipe for progress.

You are free to misinterpret art even after the artist tells you that you are incorrectly interpreting his artwork, and you are free to set your own priorities in life,

but for my part I hope I never place my own private embarassment (over something that is not even my fault) higher in importance than an international discussion

on ways to stop a heinous crime that permanently mutilates and reduces the quality of life hundreds of thousands of young girls every year.

Why you consider it a cheap shot to quote the (your?) self proclaimed "most beautiful pattern of conduct and exalted standard of character", and so called "prophet" when it goes right to the issue of one of the main reasons why this practice is still continued to this day?

Abstract.

"Female genital mutilation (or female circumcision) has been experienced by over

100 million women in sub-Saharan Africa and the Nile valley. Efforts to suppress the practice

were made in the earlier decades of the present century, especially by missionaries in Kenya

in the 1920s and early 1930s. Successful indigenous opposition to this activity led to a cul-

tural relativist attitude toward FGM being dominant among governments and international

bodies for the next half century. This situation has changed over the last 20 years as the

women's movement has led an attack on the practice, so that by the mid-1990s all relevant

major international bodies and governments without exception had committed themselves to

its suppression. Nevertheless, efforts to counter FGM have often been weak and there has been

little evidence of their success. This paper draws on a continuing research program among the

Yoruba people of southwest Nigeria to show not only that FGM has begun to decline but that

this occurrence can be explained wholly by programs organized by the Ministry of Health and

women's organizations. The focus of this paper is on the determinants of this change. These

are shown to be: (1) a reduction in ceremonies associated with the practice, (2) its increasing

medicalization, (3) indigenous secular campaigning based on the provision of information,

and (4) a focus on individuals, especially women. There is little belief that the campaign is an

assault on the culture, but rather a growing feeling, especially among those influenced by it,

that it would be more appropriate once such a campaign has begun for it to be whole-hearted

rather than lukewarm. "

This lukewarm approach is the problem.

Why aren't (your?) imams, clerics, and other leaders not stepping up to the plate to stop this?

Instead we are getting this kind of sxxx coming from them.

Link

"Leading U.S. Muslim jurist: Female genital mutilation an "honor" in Islam"

@ Jes

I realize that I forgot to address your comment that I should look at the photo.

Clearly your are unwilling or unable to fathom that a moment of levity can be mixed in with the presentation of an art installation that still has a serious underlying message.

The photo was taken after it occured to the minister to feed some of the cake to the artist, which was an unscripted part of the art installation that was met with surprise and laughter.

But your reference to the photo to back up your position is consistent with your role as an officer in the political correctness police: You rigidly maintain with clenched teeth that everything must be funeral-parlour seriousness unless you say it is okay to smile.

If you are truly interested in helping to wipe out the crime of FGM, then recognize your allies, rather than condemn them.

As for the psychological aspect of FGM, all power brokers (community, religious and government leaders) are, despite whatever they claim, fundamentally motivated by a desire to control their congregations, and want to be perceived as the providers of the resources and financial assets that make their way to their congregations (whether their claim as providers is derserved or not). Find a community in an area where FGM is still widely practiced, whose leaders are willing to tie development aid to concommitant requirement for serious FGM re-education and reforms, and the rest will follow.

@Reason abd Realism

the point to keep missing is that there is a right and wrong way to solve even the toughest problem . This particular piece of art takes away the discussion -from FGM to the incident as we are now discussing . You notice that 95% of the comments here are about whether the Minister and the cake are "racist " or not . The Mali woman is simply left out the picture .

If we are honestly interested in stopping FGM , we need to do it with respect , understanding and without insulting images like the one up here

@bcterry , once again , you prove that you know very little about this issue . Genital mutilation , was not commanded by Allah as most of you seem to think . It is not even a Jewish original idea . It was ancient African that started cutting off boys fore-skin allegedly to stop them from playing with their "parts" and "delay their sexual desires " . The Romans thought this was a good idea and ordered parents to cut their baby boys . Jews and Arabs pickep the custom and later claimed that curring is a GOd`s command . The same cutting concept was adapted , marking the beginning of FGM .

There are trained people who are working day and night to tell the people who still practice this "custom" that it is just a painful unnecessary myth

@bcterry , once again , you prove that you know very little about this issue . Genital mutilation , was not commanded by Allah as most of you seem to think . It is not even a Jewish original idea . It was ancient African that started cutting off boys fore-skin allegedly to stop them from playing with their "parts" and "delay their sexual desires " . The Romans thought this was a good idea and ordered parents to cut their baby boys . Jews and Arabs pickep the custom and later claimed that curring is a GOd`s command . The same cutting concept was adapted , marking the beginning of FGM . "

We are discussing FGM, not circumcision of boys, of which the procedure and effects are insignificant compared to that of FGM.

I gave you the quotes from your so called "prophet", directly from your book of hadiths, which are considered second only to the koran in authenticity.

Are you denying they're they not there?

"The Quran is considered like the backbone of Islam although the bulk of the religion is made from the sunna, or Mohammed's traditions, which is based on his hadiths or sayings and considered second to the Quran in its importance. Practicing Islam is impossible without the sunna, because the Quran doesn't explain anything about the Islamic rituals or sharia and refers Muslims to take Mohammed's example, which only comes through his hadiths (Q.59:7)."

Maybe it's you that knows very little about your own faith.

"There are trained people who are working day and night to tell the people who still practice this "custom" that it is just a painful unnecessary myth "

Which apparently by all consensus is failing miserably.

Once again, where are your "religious???" leaders on this, THEY are the ones that are most influential, other than those who continue to defend it with vigor???

@bcterry ,

there you go again ! What do you mean the koran is my book ?

If you must be told, I am as far from Islam as earth planet is from the sun. I could never be a muslim if it was the last religion on earth . It is a pity that it is people like you who vist these kinds of sites . According to you , anyone who questions "illogicals" must be doing so under the influence of religion . How long could a civil discussion last if I also started questioning your concern as regards FGM issue . I sense that yours is another problem.

I thought I informed you that circumcision , be it for men or women was NEVER a religious concept '

No Sir , if Muhammmed had ordered all muslims to cut their daughters , your googled reference would be mentioning Saud Arabia , Pakistan , Indonesia and not Kenya or Mali . For your information , the Kenya tribes - eg , the Masai , the Nandi , the Turkana and some Kikuyu who practice FGM are not Islamic .

It takes a long time to change well entrenched perceptions . It took 300 years for America to officially admitt that racism is evil . It cannot take 25 years to eliminate FGM from the heads of humans that still consider it an honourable ritual .

@bcterry ,

there you go again ! What do you mean the koran is my book ?

If you must be told, I am as far from Islam as earth planet is from the sun. I could never be a muslim if it was the last religion on earth . It is a pity that it is people like you who vist these kinds of sites . "

Why in the hell didn't you come right out and state your position when first prompted , instead pussy footing around the question?

"I thought I informed you that circumcision , be it for men or women was NEVER a religious concept ' "

Where have i stated that you have?

"No Sir , if Muhammmed had ordered all muslims to cut their daughters , your googled reference would be mentioning Saud Arabia , Pakistan , Indonesia and not Kenya or Mali . For your information , the Kenya tribes - eg , the Masai , the Nandi , the Turkana and some Kikuyu who practice FGM are not Islamic ."

It's right in the hadith for christ's sake, and i gave you the reference point to prove it, why in the hell didn't you check it out, before you came back with this latest fairy tale.

So YES SIR, it sure as hell IS in there, muhhamad DID endorse it, and muslims themselves do not dispute it.

So go back and have a look, and this time, LOOK IT UP!

What position do you think I should have I stated , that I am or am not a muslim ? I suppose you àlso think that Robin is also a muslim jtoo , right ?

Are you sure you are fit to hold this discussion ? You probably don`t remember that this issue is about FGM and that " racist cake". As I said , yours is anothe problem . I see you desparately unprove the provable . Sorry , it is not working !

I don`t feel like repeating to you that FGM has more to do with culture than faith aka religion .

Since I suspect that you are an old retired guy , have some fun looking for more information and the history of FGM . It really helps to be fully educated -otherwise you risk thinking that even Labiaplasty , which is taking a life of its own in western cultures was ordered by Playboy Mansion`s prophet.

Peace !

What position do you think I should have I stated , that I am or am not a muslim ? I suppose you àlso think that Robin is also a muslim jtoo , right ?"

How about taking the the position of standing up and giving simple, straight forward, honest response to the query?

Do you have that in you?

"Are you sure you are fit to hold this discussion ? You probably don`t remember that this issue is about FGM and that " racist cake". As I said , yours is anothe problem . I see you desparately unprove the provable . Sorry , it is not working !"

Why don't you address the FACT that i provided in my link, that muhammad endorsed FGM?

It goes right to the heart of the matter

Now, once again, a VERY, SIMPLE, DIRECT, SPECIFIC QUESTION, ....... in the hadith that i gave you, does it, or does it not, confirm that muhammad endorsed FGM?

Do you have what it takes to give me an HONEST, DIRECT, SPECIFIC answer, or will you continue to run and refuse to respond?

We will see.

@ Jes

You and I appear to be at an impasse. I will summarize the flaws in your logic:

You appear to assume that an artist who is drawing attention to a crime is promoting it, or promiting hatred, when the opposite is true. That is like saying that posters of hungry children are 'anti-child', or that an anti smoking campaign poster of a diseased lung is 'anti-lung'.

His use of shock art does not change the seriousness of his underlying message. Shock art can generate nervous laughter. Shock art can include an invitation by the artist to eat his artwork. That does not imply that the underlying message is not a serious one.

The word 'racist' most often appears in this post sequence with the actual or implied word 'not' next to it. The word is required because Robyn used it, and you use it, and you are both wrong, not because it is more important than stopping FGM.

In this blog sequence I only wrote that the artist is of African descent once (you were losing track of all the people who are disagreeing wtih you), but that detail cannot be disregarded.

To call him racist you are either implying that he believes that black people are inferior, which is ridiculous, or you are implying that it was accidental racism because you or others are too intellectually or emotionally limited to understand the basics of artistic expression and allegory. If the latter, then admit that, but also give him credit for attempting to draw attention to a noble cause.

You also do not appear to appreciate that all mature adult viewers (white, black, male, female) are supposed to be made to feel uncomfortable by a depiction

of FGM. But then politically correct people like you say 'Hey - the victim being depicted is black!' and then you hit the panic button and start wailing 'racism!'.

Makode Linde drew attention to an important cause. It is not therefore his reponsibility to instantly solve it himself. That is the responsibility of world governments.

Your contention that he should have never produced this art, and that FGM should have been left to be solved quietly and politely, is a recipe for continued failure. That has been attempted for the past 100 years and yet FGM is still widely practised, and the battle is even being lost in some hospitals in Africa

(that are filled with highly educated employees), as I posted ealier.

Finally, you underestimate the strength and resolve of the victims of FGM. They are not all the wimps you portray them to be. Many would gladly live with a bit of

temporary embarassment if that opens the door to a more coordinated international effort against FGM, and for the chance that even one girl, if not millions, will have

to lead a normal life.

@bcterry , yours is not the only link .

This is another one from a group of intellectual that are experts in Islamic law

ENJOY :

"""Among those countries practicing it under the religious pretext we should mention here Egypt, Sudan, Somalia, and Eritrea. But we have other Arab and Muslim countries that DO NOT PRACTICE IT, such as the North African Countries, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia (with some exceptions), and Iran. When speaking with Muslims, say Egyptians, who practice female circumcision, again the first argument is religion. Then comes the argument of chastity of the girls, which is linked with religious feelings. Then comes hygienic and scientific arguments. Yet Muslims who do not practice female circumcision are surprised that such a practice could exist in Muslim countries. If you tell them that Egyptians believe it is religious practice and that Al-Azhar recommends it, they begin to express their disapproval. If you add that the Prophet Muhammad spoke about it, they will not believe you and may consider such affirmation as a defamation against "Islam"."""""

This thing is not a simple as you mistakenly think .

NOTE : the islamic countries that practice FGM are in Africa .. and not in the Arab countries where Islam is the only culure and the only law.

@Reason abd Realism dear ,

this is not the first time some intelligent people have found fault with a piece of art . It happens all the time if or when an artist crosses the line . In Sweden , a lot of people complained when Jesus was potrayed as a Homosexual in a piece of art that was displayed on one famous gallary . They took it down .

Then there was an art piece depicting a woman suicide bomber . That one embarrassed the Swedish government and started off diplomatic tensions .

Madonna`s "Like A Virgin" was banned in Italy , USA and UK because it showed her kissing "Jesus " in a church .

Need I go on ?

The point I continue making is that art may be "provocative " in a negative way . If Linde was as cultured as he claims to be , he should have no trouble understanding why his cake insults a black woman - cutt or not.

It is ironical that you finally remark that GMG victims are not"wimps".

That is exactly what I have been telling you for a week now; see ?

@ Jes

First of all, every controversial event is unique in one way or another, and intelligent people will use intelligent language to attempt to protect their own interests, even at the expense of solving a more important issue. The universe of controverial art is too broad a topic to disssect in a set of blog posts.

Secondly, I have NEVER implied that FGM victims are wimps. You continued to imply that they are weaklings because you continue to express that they need protection from the hypothetical emotinal trauma of seeing the artwork, whereas I consistently said that the victims have a generous spirit, and would gladly live with a bit of embarassment if that led to a more coordinated international effort tha would spare one or more future victims.

@Reason abd Realism , may I humbly remind you that you are the one who used the word "wimp" ?

Personally , all I said that the this particular "artwork" insults black people . There is evidence that it annoyed many people , of all races . In way , it sabotages the campain against FGM . I have already stated that instead of adressing the problem of FGM , we are busy attacking each other over this silly cake . The only one who gains from the exchange is Linde .

I don`t think that I need to tell you that one does not have to be a "weakling" to be protected from morons . As I said , even the mighty are not exempted from feeling hurt when and if their dignity is violeted. That picture above violets the dignity of black women . I hope you will not repeat to imply that a black artist has the right to insult black people .

Look at it again !

@Jes,

As expected, you continue to run and refuse to answer my question.

It's really quite sad, and pathetic, that you lack the courage to stand up and be forthright.

@bcterry , I have answered your question in more than one way . It is not may fault that you are slow

Most muslims in very scrict islamic countries DO NOT practice FGM . That should be enough to answer your question .

Studies after studies have found that Muhammad NEVER commanded his followers to cut women . Some say that he commented that IF a woman is going to be cut , it should be done in a way that it pleases her and her husband .

If you knew anything about Muhammad and his religion , you would know that the word IF is not commonly used because it invites compromise and options. Command and compromise never get along

@bcterry , I have answered your question in more than one way . It is not may fault that you are slow"

That's an outright lie, and it's not the first one BTW.

I'll add that to my list of your qualities.

"Most muslims in very scrict islamic countries DO NOT practice FGM . That should be enough to answer your question . "

Let me make this as painstakingly simple as possible.

In this ISLAMIC!!!, hadith, are you with me so far?....... then let's proceed.

HERE, right HERE in black and white, is the LINK, simply cut and paste on a blank page and hit enter.

Are you still with me?, good, now here it is.

"Book 41, Number 5251:Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah".

Now, in that hadith, that you just checked out???, does muhammad endorse FGM with his words?........ YES OR NO?

Now even after making that so simple a 6 year old could understand, i'm betting you will still lack the courage and integrity to stand up, and will once again run.

@jes

You say that the cake has weakened the campaign against FGM. That is utterly nonsensical. No one saw the cake and then decided to abandon their fight against FGM.

Conversely many who saw the cake have been awakened to the horror of the crime, and are now (if they appened not to know much aabout FGM) firmly against FGM, and have demanded answers about what is being done to stop FGM from their members of parliement in the UK, as I posted earlier.

In other words the cake has created new wave of support for the international fight against FGM, not weakened it, but people like you refuse to credit the artist for that.

The Victims of FGM have not lost their dignity because of a cake. It is the future victims whose dignity we disrespect, if we (the international community) continue to

do to little to halt FGM, which is an ongoing crime against humanity.

You are free to dislike the cake, just as you are free to call 1-1-2 if you see an anti smoking campaign poster of a sick lung to complain that it is anti-lung, but do not make a fanatical claim that the artist has weakened the fight against FGM.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the fact that you are against FGM. I am just not comfortable with people who screach 'racism' when none was intended, and by so doing distract attention from the plight of the hundreds of thousands of real victims of a far more serious (and fully intended, and premeditated) crime.

That's my last post here. Peace!

@bcterry ,

I really wish I had the time to educate you. You seem to have a big problem with interpretation. One of these days , you are going to say that the bible "endorsed" slavery just because KKK quoted something from the bible ?

Almost all Islamic law scholers have agreed that it is debatable if Mohammad " endorsed " FMG . All records show that ,at leasts , he NEVER COMMANDED his followers to practice FMG like he did with men circumcision for all muslim men. And because he did NOT CAMMAND his followers to cut women , a great majority of muslim women don`t practice FGM.

(( I am going to repeat to you this answer as many times as you want.

It is true that the racist cake put all FGM is a tricky situation. None of them has said that the ugly cake , cut by smiling blonde women has helped the campain.

As I said several times before, the cake only helped the artist .

"I really wish I had the time to educate you. You seem to have a big problem with interpretation. One of these days , you are going to say that the bible "endorsed" slavery just because KKK quoted something from the bible ?"

Running again, can't even bring yourself to admit the FACT of what he said in the hadith.

"Almost all Islamic law scholers have agreed that it is debatable if Mohammad " endorsed " FMG . All records show that ,at leasts , he NEVER COMMANDED his followers to practice FMG like he did with men circumcision for all muslim men. And because he did NOT CAMMAND his followers to cut women , a great majority of muslim women don`t practice FGM."

Where have i ever said he commanded it?

Stop putting words in my mouth, your making a fool of yourself.

Here are the exact words in the hadith.

"A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband."

@bcterry, that is the quote that mad mullars and Islamic morons spin in order to justify FGM.

Objective intellectuals will call this a comment and not a complete "endorsement" Something else that you fail to analyse is that it was a woman who raised the question that Mohammad responded to. I must remind you again that in Medina , muslim women DO NOT practice FGM

I am surprised that a man who accused me of being a muslim and therefore a supporter of FGM , is the same one who is talking like he was a member of the tthe Talban movement.

In n case you may not know it, there are two sides to this argument. Extreem mullars take a short walk to islamic scriputures , did out one or two ambigious statements and use them to manipulate the less informed musllims. They do exactly what you are doing here: " Muhammad endorsed this ----muslims MUST do what the Prophet told us to do .Those who are telling you to stop cutting muslim women are haters of Islam. They want muslim women to behave as prostitutes""""

Believe it or not ,, some muslims buy this kind of crap , the same way you believe that Muhammad endorsed FMG.---- the same was the devil who shot 70 innocent young people in Norway believes that the constitution instructs him to kill in the name of national patriotism--- the same way KKK justified the treatment of black people as slaves that are only there to serve their white master.

@bcterry ,, the more you keep insiting that hadith endorses FGM , the more you sound like a coward.

No where in that hadith does the word "if" appear.

What he said was don't cut too deep.

"In n case you may not know it, there are two sides to this argument."

"In case you may not know it", i never suggested there wasn't.

He said nothing about disagreement with the cutting, he just said don't cut too deeply.

Therefore he endorsed the cut, but only so deep.

"They do exactly what you are doing here: " Muhammad endorsed this ----muslims MUST do what the Prophet told us to do .

" STOP IT,....... STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!!

What the hell's wrong with you???

Again, no where have i said, that he said, "muslims MUST do this.

You obviously cannot stay on point, and the the specifics of what i'm saying.

"Those who are telling you to stop cutting muslim women are haters of Islam. They want muslim women to behave as prostitutes"""" "

What an absolutely ridiculous statement to make, you've really gone over the top on that one.

Enough of your crap, i'm outta here.

SEEK HELP!!!

In addition to the quote i gave you,

"Female Genital Mutilation: Muhammad's Gift to Womankind "

Excerpt, (in addition to the previous quote.)

For another look at the previous hadiths, as well as the following quotes, please see the Islamic website "The Muslim Woman."

At this site, you will find among other things, the JUSTIFICATION (by Muslim WOMEN) of FGM as it practiced on Muslim women. In fact, you will find these Muslim women very much IN FAVOUR of FGM:

"…A further benefit that is apparent for women and more so for their husbands, is that women of hot climates often have a large clitoris which arouses their desires when it rubs against the adjacent clothing.

It may even grow to such a size that sexual intercourse is not possible. Therefore, circumcision reduces her desires and their effects in the first case, and makes intercourse possible in the second case..."

As we can see from another well respected Islamic site: Islam online, where the renowned Muslim scholar and Sheik Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, (who is the "spiritual leader" of the Muslim Brotherhood (the largest Muslim organization in the world with umbrella groups like Hamas and the Council of American Islamic Relations -CAIR) explains why he would personally mutilate the genitals of his daughters:

"…whoever finds it serving the interest of his daughters should do it, and I personally support this under the current circumstances in the modern world…"

There is also much more on this REALITY in the article.

Bye bye, enjoy.