Stockholm needs more nutcases, country bumpkins and foreigners
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Writing in Wednesday’s Stockholm City, columnist Sakine Madon outs herself as an antisocial Stockholmer (in Swedish):
“Start a conversation on the tube or bus? Never! I’ll leave that to nutcases or country bumpkins or foreigners who haven’t blended in with the capital’s strict norms.”
Sakine admits that she doesn’t speak with neighbours or to people in lifts. But seeing a woman, a drug addict, perhaps, slumped against a wall in Central Station in the morning rush hour at least made her wonder:
“I’m not unique. It still felt a bit strange that a woman sat there alone crying at Centralen and nobody reacted.”
Nutcases, country bumpkins and foreigners – Stockholm needs you.
December 7th, 2006 at 9:29 am
I qualify on all three criteria but can’t help instead summizing that perhaps I don’t need Stockholm.
December 7th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
That’s how i find all Swedes, rather antisocial. And i resalised that when I first moved to England.
Now when I go home to the west coast for a visit, I can’t stop myself from “acting like a nutcase”. People say I’ve got “abroadanized”. And I take that as i compliment!! ;)
December 8th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
I moved to Stockholm from Ireland 4 months ago. As you may know, the Irish are a social bunch. So when I came here, I was a little surprised at how impolite (not holding doors open – please and thank you etc.) and unfriendly the locals are “in the street”. However, the Swedes I have met and got to know are warm, friendly and welcoming. I guess it’s just something I need to get used to. I still love the city! :o)
December 8th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
I find I try to change by example – a greeting to the people I meet on the street works wonders, those gloomy faces light up. An acknowledgement to other motorists who occasionally have the manners and the common sense to let you in to keep the flow of traffic moving is working wonders. Several of the ‘locals’ appear to be joining in.
Manners is certainly not a Swedish strongpoint.
December 9th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
Ten ways to know that you’re becoming Swedish:
1. The words in your mother tongue for “excuse me” and “I’m sorry” have begun to disappear. In fact, just yesterday, when you knocked someone down on the sidewalk trying to jump onto the bus in front of them, the words that came out were, “Oj då!”
2. You’ve begun to believe that everything in Sweden is the best. The furniture, beef, cars and management techniques are so good, that the rest of the world should take notice and learn from your culture. The words, “That’s not how we do it in Sweden,” have found their way into your conversations more and more, especially when talking to immigrants.
3. You find it increasingly difficult to talk to people who you don’t know. Your eyes glance away from anyone approaching you on the sidewalk. When you do have to meet someone, you usually mumble something about the weather.
4. When you ride the bus, it has begun to feel perfectly natural to put a backpack, bag or books in the seat next to you so that no one will sit there, even if the bus is almost full.
5. You have begun to scan the newspaper to find out what Sweden has done. Whenever you find headlines with Sweden or Swedish in them, even if it is in a local newspaper, it makes you feel proud to know that you live in a place that is better than the rest of the world.
6. Seeing a beggar on the street, you wonder why they are there and who would give them money, after all, you pay taxes for the government to take care of people like that.
7. It has begun to seem rather obvious that sending money to an international aid organization to help with hunger in Africa is much better than having Africans live on your tax money in Sweden.
8. Even though you see immigrants working, you have begun to have a sneaking suspicion that your taxes go to pay for their medical care.
9. 7 million inhabitants and 1 million immigrants has started to seem like a very big and important country.
10. You have begun to believe that best way to get something done is to make everyone believe that they agree with each other, before you tell them what to do.
If all of the behaviors above feel perfectly natural, you have begun to think like a Swede.
… of course I understand Swedish, I live in Sweden, but why use a language whose practitioners ridicule, segregate and discriminate against me?
December 9th, 2006 at 11:31 pm
Some of the beggars are actually people that come over here just to beg. The social workers said don’t give them money.
Oj då is quite polite, it means that you noticed bumping into someone and you are sorry.
I don’t think you understand Swedish yet.
December 10th, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Victoria,
I don’t think you understand the rest of the world yet… Read some of the other posts. Live and learn… Oh, I guess that isn’t very Swedish though.
December 10th, 2006 at 12:22 pm
The Swedish-English dictionary at kth doesn’t translate ‘oj då’ as sorry… it seems to mean, noticing that something is amiss. If Swedes think that an exclaimation of surprise having bumped into something is the same as an apology, that explains quite a bit.
For example, if in a dark room, you bump into a chair, ‘oops’ could be used. However, if you bump into a person, instead of an inanimate object like a chair, ‘excuse me’ or ‘I’m sorry’ would be more appropriate. Perhaps there is no difference in people and inanimate objects in Swedish. Maybe that’s what us foreigners don’t understand.
—-
http://lexikon.nada.kth.se/cgi-bin/swe-eng
Swedish entry word
oj [åj:] interj.
(exclamation of surprise etc.)
English translation
oh!
Examples
oj då!—oh!, oh, dear!
oj vad spännande!—oh, how exciting!
December 11th, 2006 at 10:01 am
Oh how touchy you lot can be! I think I know Swedish better than you.
Ojdå means oops, and if someone says that it means that they notice they have bumped into someone. If they didn’t care, they would be silent. That is the Swedish way. Live and learn, atleast if you live here! Understand that Sweden is different to Britain and the US, or you’re going to have problems. I had to adjust when I lived in the UK to all those people that think saying sorry justifies everything.
December 12th, 2006 at 8:18 am
So let me get this straight. If you bump into somebody and are silent, then you don’t care. But, if you hit them hard enough that you grunt or are surprised by the impact, then you do care. And if you apologize for knocking them on their butt it is a justification of what you’ve done. That is Swedish logic if I’ve ever heard it. Congratulations Victoria, you’ve just exemplified the point everyone was trying to make.
December 12th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Victoria is right. But some of the points from the angry writer as well. Swedes think highly of themselves but still we sometimes lack confidence. Very Swedish, but try to understand that more than anything, compared to many other nations, we value honesty. Maybe we are naive but we hate fakeness, something we perceive is very common in anglosaxian countries. Where a “sorry” sometimes mean something completely different. This is undrstood you say. Fine, but this is cultural difference important to understand. We rather use a sincere “Ojda” than a “sorry” worth shit.
December 13th, 2006 at 9:06 am
Victoria is right about Sweden. Everyone agrees that Swedes have a very difficult time saying sorry. In fact Hawk, you said it yourself. Swedes think that ‘Oops’ is better than a ‘sorry’ worth shit.
There is the root of the problem. Swedes would rather restate the obvious, ‘oops I’ve bumped into something… oh it’s a person… OOPS’ than to make even a half hearted effort to excuse the mistake. The most telling statement by you and Victoria is that Swedes assume that an apology by is ‘worth shit.’ That may be the case in Sweden but is not the case in the rest of the world. It is high time that Swedes stop projecting their norms on the rest of us. For some of us, sorry means sorry… not oops.
If you don’t like it, then get kth.se and others to change the translation of ‘oj då’. So far, I’ve only been able to find that it is an expression of surprise or pain, no reference to even an empty apology. The Swedish language struggles to find courteous words because courtesy is not highly appreciated in today’s Swedish society.
How many Icelandic words are there for snow and ice?
December 13th, 2006 at 10:02 am
Hawk is right! hehe :)
Sorry Bill :P
December 13th, 2006 at 12:38 pm
Don’t you mean ‘Oj Då!’ Victoria?
I don’t know which is worse, Swedish jealousy or the Swedish arrogance that allows reality to be ignored with such ferocity. Perhaps John Conlee’s ‘Rose Colored Glasses’ should have been ‘Thick Swedish Glasses’.
December 15th, 2006 at 11:21 am
What’s the big deal with outsiders in Sweden? Look, SWEDEN is the home of the SWEDES – it is THEIR country and you are in THEIR land as a matter of international courtesy, if you don’t like it then just clear off out. Simple really.
December 19th, 2006 at 9:20 am
The fact is that Sweden until very recently (1939 or so) generally was a relatively rural, backward and poor country. In contrast, the rest of Europe developed things like irony, art and technology many, many centuries ago, while Swedes were still heathen hunter-gatherers. This unfortunately has resulted in a less developed and less intricate level of social interaction here compared to the politeness, wit and poetry that is so typical of social interaction in areas with an older and richer history and culture.
This interesting difference between Stockholmers and, say, Dubliners, Oxford dons, Yorkshiremen, Parisiens or Venetians is immediately obvious to most visitors to Stockholm and to most Stockholmers who spend time abroad. It is futile to pretend anything else, Victoria et al, and in fact we Stockholmers should instead learn the joys of polite society. We’re supposed to be part of Europe now.
December 19th, 2006 at 9:23 am
Interesting discussion. The fact is that Sweden until very recently (1939 or so) generally was a relatively rural, backward and poor country. In contrast, the rest of Europe developed things like irony, art and technology many, many centuries ago, while Swedes were still heathen hunter-gatherers. This unfortunately has resulted in a less developed and less intricate level of social interaction here compared to the politeness, wit and poetry that is so typical of social interaction in areas with an older and richer history and culture.
This interesting difference between Stockholmers and, say, Dubliners, Oxford dons, Yorkshiremen, Parisiens or Venetians is immediately obvious to most visitors to Stockholm and to most Stockholmers who spend time abroad. It is futile to pretend anything else, Victoria et al, and in fact we Stockholmers should instead learn the joys of polite society. We’re supposed to be part of Europe now.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
[...] as one of Stockholm’s “strict norms.” In the column, which was quoted on The Local’s blog back then, she wrote, “Start a conversation on the tube or bus? Never! [...]
March 28th, 2011 at 1:49 am
[...] as one of Stockholm’s “strict norms.” In the column, which was quoted on The Local‘s blog back then, she wrote, “Start a conversation on the tube or bus? Never! [...]