Cracking Catch-22 – An ID Card Adventure
The Local is not responsible for the content of blog comments.
As The Local has just discovered, it’s not as easy as it used to be for immigrants to get their hands on Swedish ID cards.
On Wednesday I went to my local branch of Svensk Kassaservice (Swedish Cashier Service) to have my certified Swedish identity card renewed.
The card expired in May of last year and somehow I never got round to updating it. As a newcomer to Sweden the card was indispensable for opening bank accounts, joining video rental chains, and all the other practicalities of life in a new country.
Nowadays it isn’t so vital but the card is still an essential accessory when travelling on internal flights and conducting the odd credit card transaction.
All things considered I really shouldn’t have left it so long, but I didn’t foresee any problems.
I couldn’t have been any more wrong.
The woman at Svensk Kassaservice was friendly and helpful but, after asking me a few questions, she was also the bearer of bad tidings.
Is it more than six months since the card expired?
It is indeed.
Do you have a Swedish EU passport?
No, but I do have an EU passport.
Sorry, it has to be Swedish.
Not for the first time, I wondered why Sweden had even bothered joining the EU if it wasn’t going to grant equal rights to citizens of the Union.
Do you have a Swedish parent or a Swedish wife?
Nope.
Then I’m afraid you can’t have an ID card.
Until?
Until nothing it seemed. I just plain can’t have one.
After she had so successfully burst my bubble, I asked the nice woman when the rule book had been changed.
The new directive from head office came into force at the beginning of the year, she explained.
And every day of the year so far she has had to deal with lines of frustrated new immigrants desperate to gain possession of the certified ID cards, without which they are effectively powerless.
For weeks she has been hoping that somebody will take the issue by the scruff of the neck in an attempt to make these people’s lives easier.
They can’t open a bank account unless they have a job. And they can’t get a job until they have a bank account.
It is a curious circular logic. The question now is, who can rewrite the rulebook and remove Catch-22?
Update: It seems that Liberal Party MP Fredrik Malm is on the case. Here’s hoping that his party’s motion succeeds in jump-starting the engine of Swedish bureaucracy sooner rather than later.
February 15th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Phew!
I moved here from the UK in 2002, with a British passport. I didn’t have a job yet. I moved on the grounds that I was going to live as a “sambo”.
I got an ID with no problem – even though I was married to a girl in Canada since 1990 (got divorced in 2004).
It was so easy for me.
I feels sorry for hose who are victims of this stupid policy.
February 16th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Actually the regulations about IDs had been somewhat ridiculous before – I tried it twice in 2006 and then gave up because it seemed that there always was something wrong: photo not according to regulations, missing personbevis of my reference person and so on.
After a negative experience in the hospital I tried again successfully last autumn – thank God I did not wait longer.
Two of my friends have already encountered the new problem since.
In my opinion the whole system has major flaws. The ID system is so sophisticated, but people do not realize that all IDs except the ones issued by the police are not valid for international travel. A friend of mine is working at the airport and has to deal regularly with angry Swedes who don’t understand that they won’t let them travel with their ID.
The funny thing is that nobody is required by law to have an ID – however in reality it is expected that you can produce an ID in many situations.
After all most of the regulations about the IDs apply to Swedes as well. All the fuss about ID which are of limitied usability makes little sense to me. It should be done by the police – for everybody, if Swedish or not.
February 16th, 2007 at 11:08 am
[...] Erfreulich ist daher, dass “The Local“, eine englischsprachige Online-Zeitung aus Schweden, dieses Thema aufgegriffen und schon drei Artikel hierzu veröffentlicht hat. Zuerst einen Blogeintrag mit Erfahrungen aus erster Hand, dann eine Reaktion eines Abgeordneten der liberalen Volkspartei und schliesslichen einen kleinen Featureartikel mit direkten Anfragen an den Kassaservice. [...]
February 16th, 2007 at 11:11 am
I am recently grauated from chalmers university of technology in goteborg.
I Got a job in uk,in order to get my visa stamped i send my passport to UK embassy in stockholm.
UK embassy people send my passport to the post office where i am staying.
When i went to collect my passport, the lady who sits there in post office started asking for my swedish id card to receive my passport.
I told her that i am not allowed to have a swedish identity card and my passport is there in the cover
right infront of you.
She told me i can’t receive my passport without showing my id card.
Now i am left with no identity and i do not know hw to get my passport.
I feel that i am the victim of this stupid and xenophobic swedish rule.
February 16th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Well Well Well,
I tried.. I moved her on my own, got a job, got a bank account, I even got a VISA Card, but .. I can’t use that one everywhere because I am asked for swedish ID and for some reason a german ID is not enough.
So, we went to Svensk Kassaservice, however, my boyfriend is not married and has not adopted me either, so .. no joy.
couple of days later, the bank. We literally had everthing but it failed because he is not a customer in the bank that I opened the account with. Well, that was the only bank that gave me an account without having a job.. but okay. Apparentkly it should work if someone who is a customer at the bank can prove that I am me.. well, I will try with a colleague next week.
It is indeed a Catch22, and I don’t understand why a german ID is not valid for a swedish VISA Card, but, from the same purse, a german VISA card works fine – same ID.
Please help and sort this one out quickly!!! Can’t be too complicated, specially for EU Citizens it should NOT be a problem – why do we have freedom of movement again?
February 16th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
I moved here in 2003 and got my Personnummer within 3 months. I then openeded a bank account (easy with a Swedish Wife) and then got a Bank ID card which I used for 3 months until I had been here for a total of 6 months when I exchanged my UK drivers licence for a Swedish licence. This is the only ID I ever carry. The majority of Swedes who have a drivers licence use it as ID rather than a bank or other ID. The following extract from the regulations on Licences makes it clear that any EU citizen can get a swedish licence which can then be used as ID!!!!!
Extract from rules
Exchange of driving licences from an EEA member
state.
An EEA member state driving licence that is valid in Sweden may be exchanged for an equivalent Swedish driving licence, provided that the holder permanently resides in Sweden.
February 16th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
It is indeed a big problem. I read about this ‘new rule’ in the press (SEE: http://www.na.se/artikel.asp?intId=1094228 ) at the start of January as my post office won’t even let me pick up my post with UK ID’s. I tried applying for an ID card right away but they were on to me and said no, so now I’m trying with Nordea however they are taking ages to get back to me. I’m hoping that as I work the Swedish Police I maybe able to swing something.
February 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
People who are working for Embassy(s) and staying in Sweden 3-7 yrs. They are also facing the same problem. Normally embassy people are getting an ID card BUT without any (4 digit) person number. Basic services like Banks, Medicals, Telephone, Internet, etc are not easy to get without this 4 digit.
Can somebody raise this issue to Swedish authority. we people are suffering years after years only lack of this 4 number.
February 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Hmm, I was able to open a bank account at Swedbank with only my US passport and a samordningsnummer, although for some reason I’m allowed only limited banking services — bank machine card yes, internet banking no.
February 16th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Hi all
I got an ID card mid-2006. I don’t know if this will still work, but I had no problems at Handelsbanken, I just had to have someone with me who already had a Swedish ID card (preferably a native Swede I guess!) to sign my application certifying that I was who I said I was. I took my friend (who was not a customer of the bank), and we had no problems at all.
So maybe try them?
–Adele
February 16th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
so far “Touch Wood” i have not had any problems using my UK passport to collect Packages (including last week) at the local “post office”. re the ID what a farce, Dont want one happy with my UK pasport. and Why should i get a Swedish driving licence when my UK one is fine.
February 16th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Did you know that a Swedish ID is required if you would like to use a Swedish bank card (e.g. Handelsbanken VISA)?
Unless staff are generous they will generally not accept a Swedish bank card with a non-Swedish EU-ID or non-Swedish EU-passport. This passport is sufficient means of identification to get you into the country and to indetify you to the rest of the world, but try to buy a ticket from the SL counter, a shirt at Ahléns or stamps in the post office and you will experience some great nonsense.
Best is to shop only at places where you can use your bank card in combination with the PIN code.
February 16th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
I moved to Sweden in September 2000. Because I was an executive consultant, bank accounts, housing and the rest were quite easy to come by. I planned to stay only 11 months, but the contract was extended and after 2 years I decided to start my own company in Sweden. By 2003 I learned that I was driving “illegally” since I’d not gotten a Swedish driver’s license. (I had no idea that one couldn’t drive more than a year in Sweden on a foreign license before he or she becomes dangerous on the roads). I assumed at the end of 2003 that I was headed back to the US, so I put off getting the license. In 2004 I began working full time for the Swedish government and still hadn’t gotten my license, but I didn’t really drive, so it didn’t seem to matter much. In 2006 I was granted permanent residency and then thought, OK, now I’ll get my driver’s license (insulting as it was).
It was then, 6 years after arrival, that I even learned that there was such a thing as a Swedish ID!! It seems that before I take the driving test, I must have the ID (although for one to get the permission to practice driving :-) one must simply send in one’s personsbevis. Talk about contradictions.
Last week I mailed my bank officer to ask about the ID. I’ve not heard from him yet, but seeing this article in the Local does not bode well. Let’s hope that Fredrik Malm is reading all of these blog comments.
February 16th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Hiya,
Just wanted to let you know that I am swedish living in the UK and I have a very hard time renewing my UK Driving License. I the UK my Swedish Driving License is not a valid ID and I cannot use the post-offic echecking service with my Swedish passport. After several discsussions with the DVLA (usser of driving licenses in the UK) the have told me that my only option of changing the address of my UK License is to drive to Nottingham and show my Swedish Passport to a DVLA official. Alternatively I can post them my passport, but they can not guarantee when I will get i back and I usually need it for work with short notice.
You may ask – why don’t I just continue to drive on my Swedish one… well, I have to pay twice the car insurance and my swedish driving license is not valid ID in banks etc. – So it is equally difficult being Swedish in the UK I am afraid.
Good luck.
February 16th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
I think yes, the policy is problematic a it unjustly creates problems for legal immigarnts but it was probably introduced to deal with illegal immigration? If so it is completely justified, there are too many immigrants in Sweden just like most other European countries and a leftits/communist multi-culti government led to this over many, many years. Now everyone will have to suffer consequences. Sweden needs to find a way to save their national identity,a nd by the way, way should immigrants from wherever be able to vote in Sweden and receive government help?
February 16th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
The present situation is unacceptable and I encourage the EU citizens resident in Sweden who face this situation, to take Sweden to the European court of Justice.
Sweden is violating EU rules…..and Sweden is not above the law!!
Husky
February 18th, 2007 at 7:01 am
wow, i thought i was the only one with problem. I came BACK to sweden after being in the US for 25+ years. I am born here and i am a swedish citizen. OK so i go to the bank, where i have had accounts my whole life (even when i was in the US)to get an ID card and all i had was my USDL and assorted Sams cards etc. Which they of course wouldnt take. Said i have to get a “personbevis” from Skatteverket. So I go there and on that it says i am emmigrated. So the bank will not accept it. I go to the policestation to get a EU ID card, same story there. This was all in October of last year, i this past monday (13 Feb) finally got my personbevis stating im a swedish citizen and im now “folkbokford” where i am living. Oh, i had to travel on a temp passport (emergency) and they took that when i arrived at customs, so ihad no proof that i was a swedish citizen. Now, can they make it more complicated? The bank, who had a person who was very nice and helpful, finally let me open up an account, and i have a MC that goes with it. Now try to use that in the stores without a swedish ID. No matter i show them all my US idpapers, still not good enough because my “personnumber” is not on those. And forget about getting a swedish drivers license. They want me to go through the whole theory course plus all the driving to a nice cost of 6-10K. Yeah right, i guess driving in Dallas is not good enough for them..
I have no solution on what original post should do, since it does not apply to myself, but yes Sweden and Swedes in general (ok there are good folks here too ..) should realize that they dont stand above the EU laws and have to follow. I am sure that if a swede should be treated like this somewhere inside of EU they would raise hell. So go for it, make them suffer.
Oh, those of yall that has gotten the 4 little numbers, do you feel that storeclerks/offical govnmntpeople etc see you as a number only? I dont like to stand in the store and give out my personnumber to everyone for everything. You never know who is standing behind you with pen and paper.
K
February 19th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Swedish ID Card. I don’t possible see a cognitive reason to moving to Sweden; It is one of the most unwelcoming country in Europe. First of all, if you come for spousal/relationship, you will face the same situation as countless foreign people; that is getting a proper job. Even if you have the best credentials from one of the top ten ranking university in the world but you name is Abdel, Marcos, or Stanislao you may as well pack your bag and move back home if you can or go to a friendlier country. France, UK or even Russia.
February 19th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Swedish Id card : Who wants it any way..? issue a immigrant card which is valid for the duration of stay in sweden, so that one could use banking services, medical services or almost anything.
Immigrants can have a ID which states their nationality, and valid for daily works(such as banks,hospitals,post etc… and should be issued immedietly after showing the person nummer and passport)
It can have a different colour, so that could be identified easily.
Instead of of this if government makes (may be a stupid and a racist minister) a rule by which everyone affected badly which is really not justified.
Rules are meant to faciliate some things to the people, instead if they are causing trouble its meaning less.
If current swedish government hates immigrants then it must stop issuing visas and also try to find a good way by which people who are already in sweden are not affected.
Hope the right authorities will read it and understand that how this stupid rule is affecting people who are innocents.
February 20th, 2007 at 11:36 am
When it comes to immigrants relations, Sweden probably has the worst records of all the countries in the EU. First of all, the people occupying those decision making post like ministry of immigration are nothing but a snus farm boy or girl coming from a rural and rustic part of the country where the only encounter they probably had with a foreigner was on their first trip to Thailand. Immigrants will always be subject to these irrational and ill-treatments in Sweden because the foundation is corrupt. Get rid of all those Xenophobes working in customs at Arlanda and at ministry level from the lowest to the highest ranking official and only then maybe the system will work. Then after this they should look at companies unwillingness to hire people with foreign sounding names even though he/she is a second generation Swede.
February 20th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
No, get over your leftist definition of xenophopia, there are millions of immigrants in Sweden putting a strain on taxpayers (have you been to suburbia?) and it is a country with the most open borders in the region (just compare it to Denmark). That will finally ruin the coutry as you know it. Just look at the war going on in suburbs of Paris (I know, you don’t hear much about that in your conrolled, politically correct media). What should be done is, stop the mass uncontrolled immigration, but allow a small number of highly qualified and educated immigrants to stay and get ID cards easier.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Actually, I am yet to meet an immigrant putting as you so eloquently put it (a strain on taxpayer).I lot of immigrants I meet in Sweden are very proud people with an education that could challenge many of the so called privileged bondläpp. I am not saying though that you will not find them; all I am saying is that I have not met anyone being a strain to society. Small number of highly qualified and educated immigrants? In which world do you live.,.If someone would follow your logic; there would be no one to plow the fields, work in the assembly lines, work in the food processing companies, etc etc. I suggest you read William Stanley Jevon’s the theory of political economy. You are right about me not hearing much about the wars in the Banlieue’s in Paris because the county I live in and most of the controlled media would rather brain wash the population in making them believe we live in a very open and tolerant society. That’s the reason why some of the most watched programs on the tele are lest dance, bingo lotto or weekly infusion of melodiefestivalen with the same contestants year after year. (The fat chick, Siegfried & Roy look-alike and that religious freak girl).What good is it for a country with an open border welcoming immigrants if it doesn’t have a clear policy of integration? Take a loot at Tensta, Rinkeby and Akalla. Integration is a two way street, and I would propose if you live in Stockholm that you take a little tour of the major employers in town and please tell me how many foreign looking people you will find.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:57 pm
I have been here for 6 years and still on temporary visa. I have been to many Western countries for work and holidays many times and there is no other Western country that has nonsense and inconsistent rules about ID as Sweden.
I just cannnot understand why do not accept your PASSPORT as an ID. An Swedish citizen in the USA can get an internet service and open a bank account showing just their passport (a genuine one of course). HEre they simply disregard other passports, not even other EU passports. Swedes can speak good English but they seem not to understand what is written in the passport, despite being in English too.
I am sorry for those who are in trouble. I think you should press the authority to be more sensible about this.
February 23rd, 2007 at 12:14 am
The old system was bad enough, the whole bring a swede rule was demeaning. I said stick yer card….
hey, there are only 40,000 swedes in London, do we treat em’ like they treat us? probaly not!
February 23rd, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Wow, this debate has taken a weird turn.
I can only speak from my German point of view, but I think there is a slight misjudgement of the situation here.
At least for EU citizens rules are not strict at all here.
Migrationsverket gives every EU citizens who can explain reasonably why he or she wants to stay here permanent residency right away. Even the personnummer is not difficult to get if you are a student or work here.
To get nearly as far in Germany (and probably most other EU countries) would take at least twice the trouble you have here.
The reason for the existence of Swedish IDs (and why foreign passports are not accepted) is simple: an ID shows not only your identity, but also your personnummer – and that is crucial here because the Swedish system depends on this number.
A foreign passport cannot provide that.
However as I said before the current ID system is nonsense. It has to be changed quickly.
February 23rd, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Just a quote to confirm Sweden has too much immigration and rising emigration from Sweden also (as a results I would say), proving that the country as we know it will disappear soon. The problem comes from the far-left ideology, which has taken over the media and most institutions. I say stop the immigration unless it is from highly qualified EU citizens:
A quote from The Local, Sweden’s News in English, 15 February 2007:
“At the same time as immigration to Sweden increased, emigration out of the country also rose. During 2006, 44,908 people emigrated, an increase of 18 percent compared to the previous year. The last time a higher number of people emigrated from Sweden was in 1892, 45,504 people packed their bags and left the country.”
As for the tax burden immigrants present Europe with, another quote, directly from the Danish official Welfare Commission that was reported in the newspaper Boersen 1 December 2005:
“In Denmark the non-Western immigrants cost the society, in the end the businesses 2.5 mio. ddk an individual in average a lifetime, the Danes cost 750,000 ddk in average (the difference is a factor 3.3).”
February 24th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
I agree with comment #25 .. the currecnt ID system is nonsense…absolutely nonsense. The point is if people CAN get personnummer no matter who they are, they should also be able to get an ID card. As far as I know it is not automatic that you get a personnummer especially if you are here without any good objectives. It would be impossible for some non EU citizens..but then once one has the (tracking)personummer then the ID should follow automatically.
I remember going to one vårdcentral that they only asked for my personnummer but not an ID..so I could just make it up…
February 24th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
If this ID stuff is true then Sweden will be doomed very soon,its unimaginagle that,when the world is progressing on the intregration matters,Sweden is retracting back to old form of conservatism,its appalling indeed!
February 25th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
One needs to look past this issue because it has been specifically created with the aims of hitting another objective.
The final objective is bio-metric ID’s for everybody, but the political problem as always is how to sell it.
The answer is in a series of steps, but to progress there must first be a problem to resolve in order to sell the benefits of the solution.
Firstly create a problem, resolve it with bio-metric ID’s for immigrants, which is less politically sensitive, then publicise how well the new system is working so it can be expanded to include native Swedes.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
IDs serve each country according to its needs. Perhaps in Sweden, it’s needed for the reasons stated above (biometric IDs, personnummer, etc.) and has nothing to do with immigration, so I’m not sure why this was even brought as a topic into this discussion except to unjustly blame others for problems that exist within (since it’s been proven that immigrants are often skilled, educated and/or willing to take jobs no one else wants while contributing to social security, the economy and vibrance without taxing public services).
In other EU countries, it can be difficult to get an ID also. I’m an American in Greece, and in order to get an ID, you need to have a tax number; and in order to get a tax number, you have to have a work permit. But in order to get a work permit, you need a job. In order to get a job, you need a work permit and tax ID number. Can you see the big Catch 22 circle going around? To many, it may appear that this EU country is trying to keep out immigrants, but it may be a matter of terrible policy making.
However, even without an ID, a foreigner can easily open a bank account, establish services in their name (electric, water, cell phone, home phone), use a credit card from this country or their own, and drive here with the passport and driver’s license of their home country for an infinite number of years.
March 4th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
What Kat wrote above in the last paragraph is not true. It is not possible for a foreigner to open a bank account in Sweden so easily. If you are an exchange student, you may be able to open a temporary account. But banks in Sweden always as for PERSONAL number. YOu can get a cellphone without needing a personnumber if it is a kontantkort but you cannot get other things without it. I know TELIA used to provide home phone service without a personnumber but it is now not possible anymore.
March 17th, 2007 at 2:14 am
I am an englishman who moved to sweden last summer, and have not gotten round to sorting out my id card. I plan to do so in the next few weeks, as I sorted out my personnummer last year. All rhetoric aside, essentially what is being said here is that I will not be able to get one? Is this correct? Also on the subject of jobs… I am still unemployed, despite attending SFI for nearly a year and speaking decent enough Swedish, athough not for want of trying. But seriously, how accurate is what I am reading about ID cards here?
May 9th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Does anyone know if the new Swedish passports contain RFID chips in them yet? Other countries have already started this from what I understand. Canada has had them in place for a year now.
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:38 pm
I recently arived. Got my personnumber, after 3 weeks, but couldn’t help thinking of Aldous Huxley’s writings or George Orwell’s ’1984′. I had anticipated trouble over the id-card as my ‘Sambo’ informed me of the hurdles with my move here. I rang skatteverket but got the ‘switchboad shuffle’ also hung up on – välkommen.
March 26th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
This is my problem and my letter to the NORDEA head office:
Hej
I have been here in Sweden since October 2008. I am
not Swedish and I have to always take my passport with
my self. Before I came to Sweden I read that any foreign
student can apply for a Swedish ID card through banks. I
opened an account on your branch in — on 27 Sept.
2008. After two week I got my personal number and
immediately requested for a ID card from Nordea. But a
lady said that ID card is issued by police not the bank. I
went to the police and they said that banks are
responsible. I asked my friends with Swedish ID card and
they said that we got it from SwedBank. I went to the
Nordea Bank again and said the history but the lady said
that you have to wait for your first salary and then apply.
I waited and after two months returned but she said that
you have to wait for six months. Now after six months I
went there yesterday and that lady again said that your
visa is just valid for 14 months and we can not give you a
ID card. I surprised because you know that by a law
student visas are renewed each year. I am employed by
— and have a regular salary and paying tax.
They showed me some documents and I had all the
required conditions but still she said that I can not give
you a ID card. I asked why and of course she just said I
can not. It is really strange that your employees dont
know the roles or they are allowed to have their own
roles? I surfed the web and found this strange news
about your bank (http://www.thelocal.se/10278/). My
friends have account on SwedBank and got their ID card
after one months but unfortunately I made a big mistake
and opened an account on the Nordea branch in —. I
even had a problem to get a visa card and I had to apply
directly from Stockholm branch. Sorry that may be my
e-mail is a little impolite but I really need my ID card
because I need to get a Swedish driving license. Would
you please advice me that why the roles are different
between Nordea branches and can I get a ID card though
other Nordea branches.