• Sweden edition
 
The comments below have not been moderated in advance and are not produced by The Local unless clearly stated.
Readers are responsible for the content of their own comments. Comments that breach our terms and conditions will be removed.
3 Pages V  < 1 2 3   Reply to this topic

Renewal Irish driving license

Where, what, how.

oddsock
post 8.Feb.2013, 11:07 AM
Post #31
Joined: 19.Dec.2008

Nah, the horses mouth is the RSA, which is the Irish authority that issues driving licenses.

Citizens Information is a glossy website filled with incorrect information - I've read other incorrect things on it before.

But the fact that these websites use "renewing" and "exchanging" interchangeably shows that they don't really care about the difference between the two terms, because in Ireland it is essentially the same thing. But you seem to care, just to be able to score cheap points against somebody for no reason. Give up already.
Go to the top of the page
+
Yorkshireman
post 8.Feb.2013, 11:23 AM
Post #32
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (oddsock @ 8.Feb.2013, 11:07 AM) *
But the fact that these websites use "renewing" and "exchanging" interchangeably shows that they don't really care about the difference between the two ... (show full quote)

...or they realise that certain groups of people don't have the capacity to understand the difference biggrin.gif
Go to the top of the page
+
oddsock
post 17.Oct.2013, 04:10 PM
Post #33
Joined: 19.Dec.2008

EU commission directive 2002/C 77/03:

E.4. Procedural aspect
In the context of renewal of licences it has to be underlined
that the same administrative procedures for renewal have to be
applied indiscriminately to all licence holders, regardless of
whether the licence has been issued in the Member State
carrying out the exchange or in another Member State.This
refers to all aspects of the procedure, for example the
imposition of administrative fees or the respect of time limits.
Go to the top of the page
+
madroni
post 17.Oct.2013, 05:01 PM
Post #34
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 12.Mar.2012

It looks like Yorkshireman has given up, i wondered who would 1st...
Go to the top of the page
+
Gordy
post 17.Oct.2013, 06:00 PM
Post #35
Location: Skåne
Joined: 1.Oct.2005

biggrin.gif
Go to the top of the page
+
AgeOfReason
post 18.Oct.2013, 11:04 AM
Post #36
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 1.Sep.2013

QUOTE (oddsock)
EU commission directive 2002/C 77/03:

E.4. Procedural aspect
In the context of renewal of licences it has to be underlined
that the same administrative procedures for renewal have to be
applied indiscriminately to all licence holders, regardless of
whether the licence has been issued in the Member State
carrying out the exchange or in another Member State.This
refers to all aspects of the procedure, for example the
imposition of administrative fees or the respect of time limits.

I will throw my 2p's worth into this then ... You need to understand how Europe works and what is meant by discrimination between EU Citizens and member state nationals. Furthermore, just because it is written in a directive and a member state applies things differently does not mean they are acting incorrectly, at least not until their implementation is challenged in the European Court and a ruling is issued. Just in that context alone, Sweden may have implemented this incorrectly but it is acting correctly according to national legislation and in the eyes of the European Law has not done anything wrong by charging differently, until that is challenged in court.

Now, does Sweden actually discriminate between EU citizens and Swedish citizens with regards the fee. I would argue it does not,. The fee charged is not dependant upon which nationality the EU citizen has, it is to cover the cost of the different administrative processes when renewing the license. Eu nationals and Swedish citizens pay exactly the same cost depending upon which process is used to renew/exchange the license.

- A swedish citizen holding a license issued by another member state will pay exactly the same fee as a non-Swedish citizen holding a license issued by another member state.

- A non-swedish citizen holding a swedish issued license will pay exactly the same fee as a swedish citizen holding a Swedish issued license.

The same rule(s) are applied without discrimination to the license holder.
Go to the top of the page
+
oddsock
post 20.Oct.2013, 04:36 PM
Post #37
Joined: 19.Dec.2008

Very good, but nobody was suggesting the discrimination i this case is based on nationality. The discrimination is based on having a non-Swedish driving license. As the directive states:

QUOTE
the same administrative procedures for renewal have to be
applied indiscriminately to all licence holders, regardless of
whether the licence has been issued in the Member State
carrying out the exchange or in another Member State. This
refers to all aspects of the procedure, for example the
imposition of administrative fees or the respect of time limits.

The directive is the European Commission's interpretation of EU law. So in the eye's of the European Commission, Sweden is infringing EU law. All remains now is for somebody to bring it to the Commission's attention.
Go to the top of the page
+
AgeOfReason
post 20.Oct.2013, 06:28 PM
Post #38
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 1.Sep.2013

QUOTE (oddsock)
Very good, but nobody was suggesting the discrimination i this case is based on nationality. The discrimination is based on having a non-Swedish driving license. As the directive states:

The directive is the European Commission's interpretation of EU law. So in the eye's of the European Commission, Sweden is infringing EU law. All remains now is for somebody to bring it to the Commission's attention.

It would be a waste of time, since the text that you posted holds the key that is it is about discrimination, the key line in the judgement from an earlier case was:

QUOTE
...that the same administrative procedures for renewal have to be applied indiscriminately to all licence holders

I repeat, to all licence holders, so in this context the licence holder is indeed subjected to the same administration fees with regards what they want to do with their licence. The fact that there are different administrative fees for exchanging a licence as part of a renewal and a renewal of a local issued licence is not relevant, and accepted.

If you want to waste time and money to challenge that then the EU commission isn't the place to go since they will just ignore it. You first have to refuse to pay the bill, get it into court in Sweden, and ask the Swedish court for a ruling from the European Court. Only the European court can provide a ruling, the EU commission has no power to do anything except take Sweden to court, but they only do that where it is a large important case where they are sure they will get a ruling in their favour. In this case you will lose.
Go to the top of the page
+
oddsock
post 21.Oct.2013, 10:14 PM
Post #39
Joined: 19.Dec.2008

read it again, this time with your powers of reason

QUOTE
the same administrative procedures for renewal have to be
applied indiscriminately to all licence holders, regardless of
whether the licence has been issued in the Member State
carrying out the exchange or in another Member State. This
refers to all aspects of the procedure, for example the
imposition of administrative fees or the respect of time limits.

The European Commission directive considers renewal and exchange to be one and the same thing, and uses the words interchangeably. The following seems very clear:

QUOTE
regardless of whether the licence has been issued in the Member State carrying out the exchange or in another Member State

"the licence has been issued in the Member State carrying out the exchange" i.e. the directive also considers a renewal of a domestic license to be an "exchange"

What is a renewal but an exchange of an old document for a new one...
Go to the top of the page
+
AgeOfReason
post 22.Oct.2013, 12:45 AM
Post #40
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 1.Sep.2013

QUOTE (oddsock @ 21.Oct.2013, 11:14 PM) *
The European Commission directive considers renewal and exchange to be one and the same thing, and uses the words interchangeably. The following seems very clear:

I suggest you read directive 2006/126/EC and you will find that renewal and exchange are not the same.
Go to the top of the page
+

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3
Reply to this topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Swedish Down Town Consulting & Productions
Swedish Down Town Consulting & Productions is an innovative business company which provides valuable assistance with the Swedish Authorities, Swedish language practice and general communications. Call 073-100 47 81 or visit:
swedishdowntown.com
PSD Media
PSD Media is marketing company that offers innovative solutions for online retailers. We provide modern solutions that help increase traffic and raise conversion. Visit our site at:
psdmedia.se
If you want to drink, that’s your business.
If you want to stop, we can help.

Learn more about English-language Alcoholics Anonymous in Sweden. No dues. No fees. Confidentiality assured.
aa-europe.org/sweden
The Local Spain is hiring!
The Local is seeking a new editor for our site in Spain to join our growing team of internationally-minded, driven, ambitious and clued-up journalists
Click here for the full job description