(edit title) Homelessness and Poverty on the streets of Central Stockholm ... Options

[byke]

I just wanted to see if anyone from Stockholm had any views on the increase of poverty that seems to have increased on the streets of Stockholm? (as in beggars, rather than usual drunks)

My biggest concern is the amount of "Shakers" in the city.
Do you think all these beggars who seem to share the same medical condition of "Shaking" are legit?
It seems a little strange that so many would end up in stockholm, with the same issue at the same time and sharing a similar fate in hardship.

If it is a honest medical condition, then I truly feel sorry for such ...
However I am left questioning myself when so many congregate together in a similar area at a similar time the legitimacy of such.

Your Views?

[Yorkshireman]

Don't know if it is related or not, but FInland has had a growing problem of Eastern Europeans begging in the street, so much so they are looking to see (or have) changed the law.

EU freedom of movement allows people to travel freely, and stay in a member country as long as You can support yourself. Begging in Sweden is not a crime, and so it is possible that that is where part of the rise is coming from, organised begging.

Sad but true.

The increase of organised begging sadly detracts from those are truely homeless and need some kind of assistance/donations.

If only there was a way to tell the difference

[byke]

In the 1990's there was a little scandal in Sweden involving Finnish authorities offering one way booze cruise tickets to stockholm for their local drunks (part of a Finish "clean up the city" project).

This resulted in an increase of Finnish drunks in central Stockholm.

Needless to say their were a fair few jokes and tensions regarding Finns in Stockholm at the time.

[Yorkshireman]

http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2012/01/around_...nd_3158636.html

Recent.

[byke]

The bigger question is, if you live in a rubbish bin (like the article showed) are they really professional beggars? or just stuck in a relentless cycle.

[Mib]

The ones I have seen are normally overweight, which suggest to me that maybe they are more part of a criminal gang than real need. They always seem reasonably clean with plenty of clothing. Just ignore them as even the genuine ones will probably spend the money on the many addictions some have.

The best thing to do is to donate to the relevant charities that help genuine people.

[Yorkshireman]

I know this is not really the place for this, but it reminded me of a time many years ago ...

Was walking past the System Bolaget with my kids, and as usual there was a group there asking for money ... one poor soul with the shakes came up to Me and asked
if I could spare 10kr so he could buy some beer!

I gave it to him.

Pappa said one of my kids, You don't normally give money to them outside the System, why did You do it now?

Oh! I gave it to Him because He was Honest! ...normally they say it is for coffee or bread!

[entry]

It varies with the seasons. I assume Stockholm is similar to the Gothenburg area regarding this infestation.

The local alcoholics are known by face. They are outside of System Bolaget just prior to ten O'clock first call for alcohol. As both my local ICA Maxi and Willys are open at 7am on days I have to shop, I can avoid them.

The other part that I think you are seeing is the waves of foreign beggars who are strategically dropped off by their handlers at the shopping centers and picked up in the early evening.

If you can track down a local official, pull down their blindfold and pry their fingers out of their ears, they will tell you they have neither seen nor heard of this problem.

[Gamla Hälsingebock]

Begging is an industry based on mathematics...if you approach a lot of people you will be rewarded by some...I don't know what the ratio is and it varies all over the globe.

It may be for real in third wold countries, but I can't see how it applies to "first world" countries.

For some it's an easy way to supplement subsidies already given.

It's common here too...needing money to go home...needing money to get gas, scams! etc..

I think most on-street begging is not for real...they have other sources of income.

"Will work for food"!

Then, you can have my brown bag lunch!

Err ahhh, no, thank you?

Should I mention "Tinkers"?

[jan.petras]

I wish they would stop calling them Romanians and call them what they really are, gypsies.
There's a very distinct difference between a Romanian and a gypsy.

Just as a Swedish or Hungarian gypsy is a gypsy, so is a Romanian gypsy a gypsy.
Plus, the "rroma" are a different kind of people, they are not begging. You'll never see a rroma beg. The traditional gypsies, the one that beg, are just that, gypsies.

And no, there's no "racism" involved here. That's how they are called, that's how they call themselves. A gypsy will call himself a gypsy and a rroma will call himself a rroma.

The amount of misinformation in the media is mind-blowing, and a whole country like Romania or Bulgaria have to suffer because of a few hundred gypsies that wreaked havoc on the streets of Europe.

Romanians are a very proud and working people. Have you ever been there? The place looks beautiful, communist-ish, sure, it still has some artifacts from back then, but it's changing.

Plus. the crime-rate back there is much lower than the media might led you to believe.
In a city the size of Malmo there has been absolutely no violent crime in the past year.

Stop calling them Romanians and Bulgarians and call the beggars what they really are, gypsies.
I mean for God's sake there's a distinct difference in their faces (most are brown-ish, indian looking), it's not really rocket science telling one from another.

Also, trying to help a rroma is futile, because they are filthy rich, and I really doubt you've seen any here, or in Europe. They throw 10 million euros weddings back in Romania and Bulgaria and wear over a kilogram of gold at said event.

If you want to be better than the average redneck, then realize there's no difference between a Swede, a French, a Brit or a Romanian, except poor government in the latter.

However, be warned, trying to help a gypsy is like playing the lottery. One in ten will accept your help, the other 9 will steal your clothes and everything and leave you there. They don't want to be helped. The Romanian government has tried integrating and helping them since the Nazi regime put them in Romania 70 years ago, and still didn't make it.

Then, in wake of Romania joining EU, all the western "civilized" countries were pointing fingers at Romania and Bulgaria and accusing them of poorly managing and integrating them. I've seen how they managed to integrate them themselves, by deporting them and arresting them. Good job at integrating them Europe, let's see you now point fingers.

Also, gypsies are not violent or do any other crimes, they mostly beg and steal. There's a difference between stealing from you and mugging you. The latter indicates a certain degree of violence, the gypsies usually do it without you noticing, and if caught and confronted, 90% of the times they return the stolen items peacefully, hoping to get away with it without being arrested.

I've lived in Romania for 20 years and I haven't seen or heard any gypsy to commit a crime other than stealing (well there was this one time where one gypsy was beating his horse because the horse couldn't get up, but it was taken care of rather nicely I would say).

Please people, learn not to be ignorant and make a difference between gypsies and Romanians.
I'm not even saying all gypsies are beggars or steal, but most just live a very awful life, for one reason or another.

Also, for the love of god, don't give them money or anything. Don't. It's been shown time and time again, they do not keep the money. It's always organized, there's no doubt to it. The Swedish police can make their investigations if they want, but back home they have been done time and time again and each and every time there was a big mogul exploiting them, but they willingly submit, because they gain some perks (don't know what kind of perks exactly).

Even the most hardcore Nazi racists should have an easier time of accepting Romanians and Bulgarians, because they are true representative of the caucasian race. For example Romania is a mix between blonde and brunette people, with green, blue or brown eyes, sometimes as white skin wise as a Swede.

Ethnically, Romania and Bulgaria are the most pure countries in Europe, because they have had little to no immigration. And you can check my facts on that.

Stockholm or London is 10 times more mixed ethnically. For example, Bucharest has a 97% Romanian population, 1% gypsy, 1% hungarian and the rest 1% of different origins.

Also, in Romania and Bulgaria people are more kind than I've ever seen and most of the times will go out of their way to help you, try visiting for once.

And as far as organized crime goes: It's rather interesting how everybody hates two entire countries and make them seem like hell on earth, because of a few hundred gypsies, and in the meantime, a country like Italy, the southern half, is exporting the highest type of organized crime the world has ever seen (The Ndrangheta mafia) which is pushing up to 10 tons of cocaine into Europe, influencing governments. Last time I checked, there was a proven politician funded by the Ndrangheta having a seat in the EU parliament.

So let's hate on the beggars, and pretend like the ones who are really damaging Europe don't exist.

[JulieLou40]

Even up here in Luleå, I have noticed waves of this kind of behaviour, but usually they want you to buy a flower off them, or they are playing the accordian. Sadly, I've even noticed kids doing it (playing the accordian and begging for money), and on the one occasion when I gave a kid a couple of kronor, he said thank you in Swedish. So it seems to me that it's very well organised, and they even teach them a word or two of the local lingo into the bargain. Sneaky...

Saw some kids getting picked up by the police here too. I feel sad that adults are sending kids out to beg...

[johnjohn]

"Shakers" are a religious group who believe in the second coming of Jesus Christ mainly known today for their style contribution to music and furniture design.