(edit title) Another citizenship questions Requirements for work permit duration Options

[ronniepeng]

Recently I am going to have my extension on the Work Permit and I tried to figure out this issue confusing for many.

I called migrationsverket just now and I believe I have talked with someone that knows the matter. Her reply is that basically if you have abtained a permanent job after your study in Sweden and stayed in the same job all the time (as in my case), the four years of work time before PUT can be count as 'hemvisttid'. So it means you will be able to apply for citizenship one year after you obtain PUT. However if you only get temporary jobs and change jobs very often in an unstable way, then even if you manage to stay and work for four years and get the PUT, these four years' time may not be counted. So I ask, so it's a case-by-case evaluation? she answered, yes, we decide based on different situations.

I believe it's the definition and understanding of hemvist that really matters. Since the law defines hemvist as continuous stay with the intention to settle and doesn't really specify what kind of residence permit or situation counts or does not count, so then they have to evaluate when they make the decision. For example, if you come to study for two years, and then after that you apply for job and get a permanent one and accept it and stay in that job, then it would be natural that your intention is to settle in Sweden after your study. But if you apply for short term jobs directly from abroad and come to Sweden and do different kinds of temporary jobs, then the situation may be different that this does not count as hemvist. I believe whether you come to Sweden to work for a large Swedish company or work for a campany from your homeland will also affect the situation...

I think this is still a bit obscure since some people even with temporary job offers and so on may still from the very beginning really aim at settling down in the country for his whole life. And I think for such people it would be a bit unfair.

I also compare with the Danish policies, and I realize that the differences on migration policies between the two countries are really a lot and you can see how the logics and ideas are so different behind such two countries concerning migration.

For example, on the length of stay to obtain PUT, Denmark: 5 years (count all kinds of permit including study permit). Sweden: 4 years (does not count study. so if you study master then it becomes 2+4=6 years. if you study PhD 4?+4=8 years....).

To obtain citizenship, Denmark: 9 years (once again count all kinds of permit. so if you study master, 2 years of study + 7 years of work) Sweden: 5 years (only count stay with intention of settle. so if you study master and get permanent job, 2 years of study + 5 years of work. if you are unlucky..2 + 4 + 5= 11 years!)

Also Denmark as a GreenCard Scheme that attract professionals to enter without job offer based on a point system while Sweden does not have such.

And Denmark also has a Salary Limit Scheme aims at high salary job takers while Sweden does not have such.

[Oskarsson]

Hi everyone,
Having read this discussion I realized that I'm not the only one having this difficulty of understanding hemvisttid. I have some confusions regarding how to count the hemvisttid. In the Migrationverket website, it says that hemvisttid is counted from the time one has uppehållstillstånd för bosättning. I'm not sure what type of residence permit allows me to have that uppehållstillstånd för bosättning.
Anyone applying for Swedish citizenship after being on work permit for 4 years and permanent residence for 1 year has become a Swedish citizen?
The other day I called the case officer granting me my permanent residence and asked him when I could apply for Swedish citizen (since I might have to go home for a long period of time in California, my father is very sick so I just have to go home). He looked into my case and told me that I could apply in Feb 2013 which marks my 5th year of working here in Sweden. Then I asked him if it meant that the time I was on work permit (arbetstillstånd) for 4 years was counted as part of my hemvisttid and he said it was. I was looking at the migrationsverket website at the same time talking to him and I told him that according to the info on the website, those years I was on work permit did not count as hemvisttid and it meant that I need to wait till 2017 February when my permanent resident card expires in order to apply for Swedish citizenship. He told me that I could still try to apply for it in 2013 and I should call the citizenship office in Norrköping for detail information regarding hemvisttid.
A few days later I talked to a friend of mine who comes from Germany and now becomes a Swedish citizen. He told me that after 5 years of working in Sweden and he got the permanent residence in Sweden on the 5th year, he applied for Swedish citizenship straight ahead and he got it. It means that his 5 years of working here is counted as hemvisstid as well, otherwise he should have to wait for another 5 years since the day he got his permanent residence to be eligible to apply for Swedish citizenship.
Does it mean that it varies from case to case or country to country? Or the case officer I talked to did not know what he was talking about?
Could anyone help me on this?
Regards,
Oskar

[axiom]

Both reponses seem to run contrary to email communication other people on this thread have received, so I thought I'd do a quick Google and found this:

En annan fråga är från vilken tidpunkt hemvisttiden skall beräknas. I fråga om utlänningar som reser in i Sverige efter att ha fått uppehållstillstånd för bosättning, dvs. permanent uppehållstillstånd eller ett tidsbegränsat uppehållstillstånd grundat på anknytning, framstår det som självklart att de alltid får räkna hemvist i Sverige från och med inresedagen (jfr DsA 1983:12 s. 20). Detsamma gäller för nordbor som inte behöver ha uppehållstillstånd för att vistas i Sverige. Om utlänningen vid inresan saknar uppehållstillstånd eller har uppehållstillstånd som inte gäller för bosättning tillämpas tidpunkten för utlänningens ansökan om uppehållstillstånd för bosättning om ansökningen senare bifalls (a. DsA s. 24 f.)

This is the Migration Court's interpretation of hemvisttid, they make it clear that it is calculated from the date you either get a permanent permit or a temporary permit based on family ties for moving to Sweden.

[gplusa]

That's essentially correct although there are a couple of variations. As you say, the clock starts when you receive approval to live in Sweden. That can be via a UT, PUT, the EU equivalent, or whatever. Having permission to be in Sweden to study is not permission to live here. All of the above are correct if you are already living in Sweden at the time you receive your approval. If you are NOT living in Sweden at the time, then the clock starts once you officially arrive into Sweden and register yourself as living there.

I am an example of the second type. I received a PUT whilst still living in New Zealand. The condition of my PUT was that I had to arrive into Sweden within 12 months of the date of issue of my PUT. Otherwise my PUT would be cancelled. I arrived into Sweden 8 months after my PUT was issued. I was eligible to apply for citizenship 3 years after the date I arrived into Sweden, which was 3 years and 8 months after the issue date of my PUT.

I was not eligible to apply for citizenship 3 years after my PUT issue date as I would only have lived in Sweden for 2 years and 4 months.

So, to sum up: To apply for citizenship you need to have lived in Sweden for a certain amount of time (with a couple of exceptions) and, at some stage during your time of residency, you need to have been granted permanent residency status.

[axiom]

The question however is: does someone with a work permit begin counting this time from they have obtained the work permit or after they have obtained a PUT ie:

4yr WP + 5yr PUT = Citizenship

or

4yr WP + 1yr PUT

The courts, as I quoted above seems to agree with the first, saying that only the time under two types of permits count, a PUT or a UT for family ties. With exceptions such as Nordic and EU citizens which fall outside of the rules for third country citizens.

[ronniepeng]

I really don't understand why sweden does not adopt the clearer and easier system as in denmark or many other countries in the world concerning the counting of the time. and i don't understand either why they don't clarify this confusion that has persisted for a while.

and it would be almost scandalous if sweden anounces that its hemvisttid is five years while it's actually 9 years for people working here, by saying that those who work here for a permanent job do not intend to settle here. that i would call ridiculous and scandalous, if it is really the case.

[ahm]

That's essentially correct although there are a couple of variations. As you say, the clock starts when you receive approval to live in Sweden. That can be via a UT, PUT, ... (show full quote)

That's essentially correct although there are a couple of variations. As you say, the clock starts when you receive approval to live in Sweden. That can be via a UT, PUT, the EU equivalent, or whatever. Having permission to be in Sweden to study is not permission to live here. All of the above are correct if you are already living in Sweden at the time you receive your approval. If you are NOT living in Sweden at the time, then the clock starts once you officially arrive into Sweden and register yourself as living there.

I am an example of the second type. I received a PUT whilst still living in New Zealand. The condition of my PUT was that I had to arrive into Sweden within 12 months of the date of issue of my PUT. Otherwise my PUT would be cancelled. I arrived into Sweden 8 months after my PUT was issued. I was eligible to apply for citizenship 3 years after the date I arrived into Sweden, which was 3 years and 8 months after the issue date of my PUT.

I was not eligible to apply for citizenship 3 years after my PUT issue date as I would only have lived in Sweden for 2 years and 4 months.

So, to sum up: To apply for citizenship you need to have lived in Sweden for a certain amount of time (with a couple of exceptions) and, at some stage during your time of residency, you need to have been granted permanent residency status. ... (hide full quote)

Mr. Gplusa

Can u tell me nowdays , how the system work to revoke PUT if holder lived outside SWEDEN more than year?

I have many friends who got their PUT , and they are now living outside SWEDEN for 4 years

And they didnt contacted any embassy , and still have this PUT , and sometimes they visit SWEDEN for a week

I know them very well ..as i know myself

Can you tell if it revoked , then holder of PUT , WILL HAVE another UT or PUT ?

THANK YOU

[gplusa]

Read before writing. I had 12 months to arrive into Sweden and register myself from the date my PUT was issued. In doing so, my PUT was then officially activated. If I failed to activate my PUT within 12 months of it being issued, my PUT invitation would be withdrawn. That's not the same as buggering off AFTER the PUT was activated.

[ahm]

Ok , its fine

Im reading well , but u didnt said any thing about activation in the previous message

Now , u said that .

So , u had special case that u must activate ur PUT

iIts first time i heard about it

Cause all my friends received PUT after many sequeezed interviews in Embassay

And they received also at the same Embassy

So, they dont have to worry about revoke

And Congratulations for you to have Citizenship ,

I think you will be Active SWE citizen

[axiom]

I really don't understand why sweden does not adopt the clearer and easier system as in denmark or many other countries in the world concerning the counting of the time. a ... (show full quote)

I really don't understand why sweden does not adopt the clearer and easier system as in denmark or many other countries in the world concerning the counting of the time. and i don't understand either why they don't clarify this confusion that has persisted for a while.

and it would be almost scandalous if sweden anounces that its hemvisttid is five years while it's actually 9 years for people working here, by saying that those who work here for a permanent job do not intend to settle here. that i would call ridiculous and scandalous, if it is really the case. ... (hide full quote)

I think the rules are very clear, read around on their website and they very clearly state that a permit tied to a job or studying does not count towards hemvisttid, I gathered that from reading on MSVT's website. Problem is that some people email their work permit case worker, who has no interest in naturalization matters and ask these questions, subsequently receiving multiple different answers.

[ahm]

buggering off is a bad word ,

If u can control ur words ,please

Use good words with people .

[aliraza.jibs1]

Finally got clarification and confirmation from Visa officer from Migrationverket. There are 2 categories

1) Who came here on study and got permanent job right after that or came to Sweden on Permanent.
These types of people can get citizenship in 5 years from the period when they were given work permit based on their permanent employment
2) Who came here on temporary Job or study and got temporary job.
The time does not count as long as they are on temporary employment till they complete 4 years get PR and then they times counts from the day they got PR.

Rest I am not sure but that is what I have been told based on my case.

[axiom]

Sounds like the advice received by the other people earlier in the thread.

[activex]

@aliraza.jibs1

1) Permanent job, you will get 2 years visa maximum. So 2+2 = 4 to able to get PR.
2) Temporary job, you will get visa up to your contract but maximum 2 year. If contract extended and still working after 4 year you will get PR.

I don't see any difference between. Does really WP time counts spent on permanent job?

[aliraza.jibs1]

I agree not much of the difference but in case of permanent job it´s clear intention to stay if you accept that job. Whereas in temporary that intention is not visible to migrationverket till you get PR i.e. after 4 years provided that contract keep on extending. Like you don't seem to find the logic here but that is what the rule says or least how case officer have been told to apply this rule when processing the applications.