(edit title) Problems getting barnbidrag Yes I have a job and am paying taxes etc Options

[Ashby]

I've had some problems getting barnbidrag for my son. Im getting it now, but it was a 10months fight and they won't back date it.

Im originally from the UK, so Im an EU citizen. I started working a year ago, paying taxes, got my PN and everything etc.

It's taken the agency 10 months to tell me that my son was not eligible for 'barnbidrag' becasue for the first 6 months I was on my probation period! Is this really the case - my son can't have his money because I was on probation?

Surely this is a joke as they are happy to take my tax from day 1, I am registered from July 2011 - Its clear on my file. It makes me a little sad as I was always told that Sweden will never let a child go without... well it seems that isn't the case and the longer I've been here the less help I have recieved. Because it takes so long for anything to get sorted here, its been several trips back and forward - the last time they agreed that it looked wrong and said they would urgently look at it again, to later get a letter from the agency saying thats how it is because of my probation period? Surely its all wrong... he is EU the same as me, and as long as I have the right to reside and am paying taxes then he has the right to his barnbidrag. Its European law, the country the child is in should protect them.

Surely if I were a swedish citizen not working, the child would still get their barnbidrag, so I dont see what being on probation has to do with anything. The job I do should have no bearing on whether he gets his benefit. Lets say it were true, then say my job wasn't suitable, so I took another job on 6 months probation, he wouldnt be entitled to barnbidrag for 12 months! Sounds rediculous to me...

Anyways, I gained permanent employment in Dec 2011, but the latest certificate I showed them was for Feb when I got a second promotion (as the agency asked my wife to bring the latest), they then said that the barnbidrag can only start the following month - ie: March. Crazy... im almost done with it and can't be arsed to fight them anymore, but I wanted to ask if this is normal or is that honestly how the system works here?

[Yorkshireman]

In Sweden every child is entitled to Barnbidrag. Punkt Slut, so to speak.

Unfortunately with the freedom of movement and harmonising of benefit availability/transfer, it is a silent battle running between the EU and it's member states. Child benefit is one of those they are arguing about

Basically, when you come here from the UK, you are on a temporary stay, since they do not know if/when you intend to return back to the UK. It is likely that is what FK are saying. Before you left the UK, unless the child was born here?, you should have registered for child benefit, and before you came to Sweden, inform social security You intended to leave the UK.

For a temporary period it is likely that the UK should have paid the child benefit, and only when it was clear that the stay is for a longer duration (ie. more permanent) then Sweden would take over paying Child Benefit.

You seem to have become stuck in a gray zone between countries and period of stay.

My suggestion to You is 2 fold:
1. Contact FK again and ask them to quote under which law they are basing their decision. This way we have a clear starting point to appeal
2. Contact the Social Security in UK, and ask them about the earlier period when you were in the gray zone, and whether Child Benefit should have been paid by UK, and if it is possible to back date.

btw ... If you want to upset FK even more ... EVERY Parent is entitled to Föräldrarpenning also ...though it is most likely in your case paid at the minimum daily rate (it is not just for babies).

[Ashby]

Thanks for the help
I think I will follow up on this one more time and ask about an appeal.

When we left the UK, we were asked to sever all benefits as we had planned to be abroad longer than 6 months. I didn't realise that being on probation would affect our rights in this matter, the website has no mention of it when we did our research about coming over here. Everything sounded so smooth from what Ive read in here.

Are you saying that both parents are entitiled to Föräldrarpenning even if I work?
Thanks again

[Yorkshireman]

I am suspicious of this probation period!. Ask them to quote, in writing which law they use to base that decision upon. Did You get any papers from the UK social when you stopped the benefits ?

Tell them that Your understanding of EU rules with regards benefits is as follows ... when You move to another EU state You apply to that states social office (Försäkringskassan) for the applicable benefits (Child Benefit). It is the duty of Försäkringskassan to make the contact to the other countries that may indeed have to pay all or part of the benefits You are entitled to.

So, ask them under which Law, Swedish vs EU directives, they have used to prevent You from receiving Child Benefit, and also impose a 6 months probationary period!

As for Föräldrarpenning and unemployment, YES!. However, You must de-register from looking for work as it is not considered possible to be both unemployed looking for work, and caring for a child at the same time. And when you want to look for work, you register again as looking for work, and you get a-kassa (or the minimum unemployment benefit).

It will be paid at the minimum rate most likely.

And again, it can be a battle, but rights are rights

Word of warning ... Swedish benefits system does NOT like gaps. You go from study, to work, to unemployed, to work, to parent leave, to work etc... with absolutely no gaps. Not even 1 day. There is always, and more so in todays Sweden, that they look at the gap, say you were doing nothing, and then calculate the minimum entitlement amount. Since benefits are based upon the sjukgrundadinkomst.

One of the biggest mistakes made in Sweden, even by Swedes, is when they lose their job, they think it is OK to go to Arbetsförmedlingen when they feel like, not so ... You risk your a-kassa, your other benefits etc... if there is even a 1 day gap between work-ending, and registering as unemployed-looking for work.
Same when your child is sick ... You are expected to register that with FK the same day, doing it after risks the looking-after-sick-child benefit.

Unwritten rule is ... NO GAPS.

[Puffin]

I have heard of people getting a statemen/certificate from the Department of Social Security in the UK showing the amount of materinity and child benefits and the date that you deregistered from the UK so that they can calculate your entitlements- I was wondering if you presented FK with something similar?

The other thing that occured to me - and I am unsure of the answer - is that child benefits require you to be socially insured and registered with Försäkringskassan in Sweden (ie have the right of residence through work/family ties etc and have gone through the registration process) I was wondering whether perhaps employers are able to delay social insurance payments for staff on probation (and save themselves the 30-50% fee on top of your salary). So perhaps OP was not insured for child benefits at this time.

Or if you were late to register yourselves with Försäkringskassan this can affect benefits

[Yorkshireman]

I was wondering whether perhaps employers are able to delay social insurance payments for staff on probation (and save themselves the 30-50% fee on top of your salary). So per ... (show full quote)

I was wondering whether perhaps employers are able to delay social insurance payments for staff on probation (and save themselves the 30-50% fee on top of your salary). So perhaps OP was not insured for child benefits at this time. ... (hide full quote)

Not possible. The only time the employer can reduce the amount of social taxes is when the employee is registered under SINK, and stays for a maximum of 6 months.

Or if you were late to register yourselves with Försäkringskassan this can affect benefits

This could be possible!. I wonder if You got one of those temporary numbers for the 1st 6 months, rather than the real personal number ? If so, that could have happened, since they only give the real number if the intended stay is for a longer period. Depends what You told/asked at the tax office when registering.

@Puffin, Child Benefit is now classed as an EU family benefit, even within Sweden. In theory it is payable from teh 1st month the child is living in Sweden. (But the child does not always have to live in the same country!). If the child is living in 1 country, and 1 parent working in Sweden, then child benefit is payable from Sweden from the 1st month work is started in Sweden.

I found an example in the not too distant past for a friend, when trying to explain
how crazy EU freedom of movement has made administration!:

This was from Försäkringskassan itself, as an example:

Jari, who is Finnish, starts to work in Sweden. His wife Anna works in Finland where she lives with one child. Finland shall then pay benefits in the first place, since it is the country of employment where the child lives. However, since the Swedish child allowance is higher than the corresponding allowance in Finland, Sweden will pay a supplement. In this example, the family will receive allowances from Finland which corresponds to a total of SEK 925 per month. The family is entitled to allowances from Finland corresponding to a total of SEK 925 per month. The family is entitled to child allowance totalling SEK 1,050 per month from Sweden. Sweden pays a supple-ment of SEK 125 per month (1050 – 925 = 125). The supplement can only be paid to Jari since Anna works in Finland. Jari and Anna must together choose Jari as the recipient of child allowance in order for him to receive the supplement. If Anna had not worked in Finland, Sweden would have paid benefits and Finland any supplement.

(ignore the old ideas between the countries of the north having special rules, this is based upon the newer EU ways of doing things!)

[byke]

Is this really an EU issue? Sounds more like the Swedish welfare system.
Shouldn't the welfare of the child come first?

I would have thought if there is this EU family benefit, that it should be based on when the family left the UK and entered into Sweden?

Sounds to me like the state is looking to withhold cash earmarked to a child based on a technicality for self profit which can be linked to the states own managment. Profiting from what another member has described as a grey area is pretty low ... especially when it is meant for a child.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

The other thing that occured to me - and I am unsure of the answer - is that child benefits require you to be socially insured and registered with Försäkringskassan in Sweden ... (show full quote)

The other thing that occured to me - and I am unsure of the answer - is that child benefits require you to be socially insured and registered with Försäkringskassan in Sweden (ie have the right of residence through work/family ties etc and have gone through the registration process) I was wondering whether perhaps employers are able to delay social insurance payments for staff on probation (and save themselves the 30-50% fee on top of your salary). So perhaps OP was not insured for child benefits at this time.

Or if you were late to register yourselves with Försäkringskassan this can affect benefits ... (hide full quote)

Child benefit is like health care residence based and does not depend at all on social insurance contributions. It should be paid as soon as you are registered as resident.

[Puffin]

Child benefit is like health care residence based and does not depend at all on social insurance contributions.

Although it seems fairly common for researchers/postdocs on certain types of stipends to be refused as they are classified as temporary by MV and therefore not socially insured in Sweden but on temporary asignment from their home countries whereas there home countries deny eligibility as they claim you are working in Sweden - I have heard pf someone from Holland in this situation

It should be paid as soon as you are registered as resident.

Isn't it payable from the date you register with Försäkringskassan rather than the date ou register with Skatteverket/Migrationsverket?

Not everyone realises that they must do this as well

[JulieLou40]

Isn't it payable from the date you register with Försäkringskassan rather than the date ou register with Skatteverket/Migrationsverket? . Not everyone realises that they must do this as well

I don't think this is the case...although it took me a while to get my barnbidrag claim sorted (due to the UK taking forever to confirm I was no longer getting it there), it was backdated to the start of the month following our arrival. I.E arrive in January, get it from February. As far as I know, the registration date with FK didn't have any bearing..all they were concerned with was what date I arrived in Sweden and they said we could get it from the month after.

[Yorkshireman]

It's from when You register with Försäkringskassan.

I again am pondering over this temporary status, since according to EU rules in those cases of temporary assignment abroad, the home nation is classed as technically the one that is being worked in and should pay the benefits.

However, in 2011 the Euopean commission ordered the UK to change it's benefits rules, and if they didnt would refer them to the Euopean Court. The reasoning was:

EU rules on the social security coordination (Regulation EC 883/2004) allow the UK to grant social benefits only to those persons who habitually reside in the UK, however Article 4 of this Regulation prohibits indirect discrimination through the requirement for non-UK citizens to pass an additional right to reside test.

Any discrimination in providing social security benefits (including non-contributory cash benefits) also constitutes an obstacle to free movement guaranteed by Article 21 of the Treaty.

Under UK law, certain social security benefits - namely Child Benefit, Child Tax Credit, State Pension Credit, Income-based Allowance for Jobseekers, Income-based Employment and Support Allowance - are only granted to persons with a "right to reside" in the UK.

While UK nationals have the right to reside solely based on their UK citizenship, other EU nationals have to fulfil additional conditions in order to pass a so-called 'right to reside' test. This means the UK indirectly discriminates against nationals from another Member State.

In this case it could be argued that Sweden has indirectly discriminated against an EU citizen based solely on some so called temporary period, which Swedish citizens do not have to fullfil, when (and I hope You did) the OP registered their right to reside with Migrationsverket, and registered with Färsäkringskassan + skatteverket etc...

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Although it seems fairly common for researchers/postdocs on certain types of stipends to be refused as they are classified as temporary by MV and therefore not socially insure ... (show full quote)

Although it seems fairly common for researchers/postdocs on certain types of stipends to be refused as they are classified as temporary by MV and therefore not socially insured in Sweden but on temporary asignment from their home countries whereas there home countries deny eligibility as they claim you are working in Sweden - I have heard pf someone from Holland in this situation

Isn't it payable from the date you register with Försäkringskassan rather than the date ou register with Skatteverket/Migrationsverket?

Not everyone realises that they must do this as well ... (hide full quote)

It ONLY depends on the length of your stay. If it is more than one year, you should register with Skatteverket and Försäkringskassan. Usually you register at both at the same time and Skatteverket will give you forms for both.

It does not matter if you only will stay one year and 1 day and are a student. Residence based benefits like healthcare and child benefit are ONLY dependent on your residence status, i.e minimum one year stay, and have absolutely nothing to do with your employment status or your social contributions or tax payments.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

I don't think this is the case...although it took me a while to get my barnbidrag claim sorted (due to the UK taking forever to confirm I was no longer getting it there), ... (show full quote)

I don't think this is the case...although it took me a while to get my barnbidrag claim sorted (due to the UK taking forever to confirm I was no longer getting it there), it was backdated to the start of the month following our arrival. I.E arrive in January, get it from February. As far as I know, the registration date with FK didn't have any bearing..all they were concerned with was what date I arrived in Sweden and they said we could get it from the month after. ... (hide full quote)

Yes, the registration with FK is only because they are the ones responsible for paying it. However, the conditions on the benefits themselves are only dependent on the day you became a resident, which is decided by the day you registered at Skatteverket.

[Migga]

Crazy... im almost done with it and can't be arsed to fight them anymore, but I wanted to ask if this is normal or is that honestly how the system works here?

To answare your last questions;

No your case isn`t normal and that`s not how the system works normally. Normally the system works fine and millions of families in Sweden get their benefits without any hassle at all. Your case is in the minority. The reason that it has been such a struggle can be just as much because of the UK`s system, your own efforts or lack thereof. Not that it has been discussed in the thread yet. Strange.

[byke]

The reason that it has been such a struggle can be just as much because of the UK`s system, your own efforts or lack thereof. Not that it has been discussed in the thread yet. Strange.

So this is the UK system fault you claim?
Or the OP's fault ....

How do you work that one out?